http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Who loves ya, Rush? - 4 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50fc4bce846b7dea?hl=en
* Water Sprinkler on hot roof - 7 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd33b11ba1e1b1ff?hl=en
* How often do you take the family out to dinner? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3a8c926d1dcbd777?hl=en
* Our $500 1969 van Canadian adventure - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2fdae77d25d735f?hl=en
* Bump on the road to a free iPod - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6318a0edcf1e715?hl=en
* The 100% Electric Car With Fuel charge just 2 cent per mile - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/99ba78f1ef057a9d?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who loves ya, Rush?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50fc4bce846b7dea?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:35 pm
From: bearclaw@cruller.invalid
In article <46c48831$0$6239$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
"ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:
> NO...just the ones that are ILLEGAL regardless of color
> A simple concept you obviously don't understand.
Please explain the simple, simple, simple concept of an illegal human
being. Oh, how simple it will be.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:36 pm
From: bearclaw@cruller.invalid
In article <46c4b05c$0$3811$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> Working in another country illegally is commonly about as
> acceptable as driving drunk or selling drugs. Everyone seems to
> do it and no one seems to care very much.
You must live in some other country besides America. Here in America,
"illegal" immigration is a hot button issue purposefully designed to
distract the morons from what is really going on. And it works like a
charm.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:40 pm
From: bearclaw@cruller.invalid
In article <46c4d4f6$0$28531$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
"ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:
> And those attitudes are changing quickly when people realize
> how much it's costing them in TAX dollars.
What crap. Every competent, unbiased study shows "illegal" immigration
is a wash economically. At least, on a national level. Now, if you live
in California or Arizona, then yes, you pay a lot more than someone
living in Montana, Michigan or New Hampshire.
But as people like you so enjoy intoning, love it or leave it. There are
plenty of countries in the world that don't let anyone in or out.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:51 pm
From: bearclaw@cruller.invalid
In article <46c4d4f6$0$28531$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
"ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:
> Which makes them ILLEGAL aliens/immigrants
No, you dope. It *might* make their behavior actionable. It does NOT
make *them* "illegal".
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Water Sprinkler on hot roof
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd33b11ba1e1b1ff?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:45 pm
From: sno
Tony Miklos wrote:
>
> Rod Speed wrote:
> > Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this,
> >
> > Yep, hordes have.
> >
> >> how it worked to help cool the building,
> >
> > Its better than nothing, but not as good as real air conditioning. Much cheaper tho.
>
> The thing is that I'm not very frugal when summer comes. My bedroom is
> at about 66* and the rest of the house 70 - 74*. I'm looking for a way
> to make the A/C not have to run as much.
>
> The way I cool is mostly from an little 8k btu window rattler in the
> bedroom window. That can run day and night for less than $50/month. I
> have central A/C but it's old and costs a lot to run. Part of its
> inefficiency is because I don't use about 1/3 of the house and have the
> vents closed. I then set the A/C fan speed down one notch since there
> are less vents open. The good part is that is also gives me added
> dehumidification, and I love it arid! Anyway I set the central at about
> 76* and leave the bedroom door open. The little window unit with the
> door open does a good job up to about 85* outside. The last couple
> weeks we have been in a 90-97* heat wave so the central does run on and
> off quite a bit.
>
> >> and especially curious how to make it automatic.
> >
> > Completely trivial to do that. The usual thermostat switches
> > a solenoid valve and that controls the water to the sprinkler.
> > You can do it with what you can buy in any decent store.
>
> I didn't want to use a thermostat because if I mount it in the attic, it
> will respond too slow. I suppose I could figure out a way to put it on
> the roof in such a manner that the sprinkler doesn't turn itself off
> again in the first pass. From my observations, it may work well if it
> just used a timer and turned on for 1 minute every 20 minutes.
>
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If what you are after is to cool the attic then probably what is best
would be a powered attic fan....cost less then hundred dollars and
easy to install if you use gable mounted one....here is link that talks
about....
hope helps...have fun.....sno
--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???
This tag line is generated by:
SLNG (Silly Little Nuclear Generator)
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:27 pm
From: Tony Miklos
sno wrote:
>
> Tony Miklos wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this,
>>> Yep, hordes have.
>>>
>>>> how it worked to help cool the building,
>>> Its better than nothing, but not as good as real air conditioning. Much cheaper tho.
>> The thing is that I'm not very frugal when summer comes. My bedroom is
>> at about 66* and the rest of the house 70 - 74*. I'm looking for a way
>> to make the A/C not have to run as much.
>>
>> The way I cool is mostly from an little 8k btu window rattler in the
>> bedroom window. That can run day and night for less than $50/month. I
>> have central A/C but it's old and costs a lot to run. Part of its
>> inefficiency is because I don't use about 1/3 of the house and have the
>> vents closed. I then set the A/C fan speed down one notch since there
>> are less vents open. The good part is that is also gives me added
>> dehumidification, and I love it arid! Anyway I set the central at about
>> 76* and leave the bedroom door open. The little window unit with the
>> door open does a good job up to about 85* outside. The last couple
>> weeks we have been in a 90-97* heat wave so the central does run on and
>> off quite a bit.
>>
>>>> and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>>> Completely trivial to do that. The usual thermostat switches
>>> a solenoid valve and that controls the water to the sprinkler.
>>> You can do it with what you can buy in any decent store.
>> I didn't want to use a thermostat because if I mount it in the attic, it
>> will respond too slow. I suppose I could figure out a way to put it on
>> the roof in such a manner that the sprinkler doesn't turn itself off
>> again in the first pass. From my observations, it may work well if it
>> just used a timer and turned on for 1 minute every 20 minutes.
>
> If what you are after is to cool the attic then probably what is best
> would be a powered attic fan....cost less then hundred dollars and
> easy to install if you use gable mounted one....here is link that talks
> about....
>
> http://www.atticfans.com/
An attic fan at one end of the house helps but the heat from the roof
still radiates to the joists and ceiling. A fan can't stop that. Then
to make things worse, the living room area is a vaulted ceiling so it
gets very little circulation. A fan at the other end of the house
wouldn't help much either since the rooms there are not used (or cooled).
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== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:33 pm
From: Tony Miklos
Tockk wrote:
> "Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote in message
> news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
>> cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>
>
> A friend of mine tried this . . . he bought a gizmo that you attached to a
> garden hose, and it ran on the roof and had several smaller hoses extending
> from it that dripped water on to the hot roof. He couldn't detect any
> difference, but it eventually damaged his shingles where the water dripped.
> No idea why.
I tried a soaker hose and it just wasn't enough. Also the water liked
to follow certain paths so most of the roof stayed dry.
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== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:25 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
> sno wrote:
>>
>> Tony Miklos wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this,
>>>> Yep, hordes have.
>>>>
>>>>> how it worked to help cool the building,
>>>> Its better than nothing, but not as good as real air conditioning.
>>>> Much cheaper tho.
>>> The thing is that I'm not very frugal when summer comes. My
>>> bedroom is at about 66* and the rest of the house 70 - 74*. I'm
>>> looking for a way to make the A/C not have to run as much.
>>>
>>> The way I cool is mostly from an little 8k btu window rattler in the
>>> bedroom window. That can run day and night for less than
>>> $50/month. I have central A/C but it's old and costs a lot to run.
>>> Part of its inefficiency is because I don't use about 1/3 of the
>>> house and have the vents closed. I then set the A/C fan speed down
>>> one notch since there are less vents open. The good part is that
>>> is also gives me added dehumidification, and I love it arid! Anyway I set the central at about
>>> 76* and leave the bedroom door
>>> open. The little window unit with the door open does a good job up
>>> to about 85* outside. The last couple weeks we have been in a
>>> 90-97* heat wave so the central does run on and off quite a bit.
>>>
>>>>> and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>>>> Completely trivial to do that. The usual thermostat switches
>>>> a solenoid valve and that controls the water to the sprinkler.
>>>> You can do it with what you can buy in any decent store.
>>> I didn't want to use a thermostat because if I mount it in the
>>> attic, it will respond too slow. I suppose I could figure out a
>>> way to put it on the roof in such a manner that the sprinkler
>>> doesn't turn itself off again in the first pass. From my
>>> observations, it may work well if it just used a timer and turned
>>> on for 1 minute every 20 minutes.
>>
>> If what you are after is to cool the attic then probably what is best
>> would be a powered attic fan....cost less then hundred dollars and
>> easy to install if you use gable mounted one....here is link that
>> talks about....
>>
>> http://www.atticfans.com/
> An attic fan at one end of the house helps but the heat from the roof still radiates to the joists
> and ceiling.
If there isnt any real insulation at that level, the joists and ceiling, a
sprinkler on the roof should help significantly and doesnt cost much to try.
> A fan can't stop that. Then to make things worse, the living room area is a vaulted ceiling so it
> gets very little circulation. A fan at the other end of the house wouldn't help much either since
> the rooms there are not used (or cooled).
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:27 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
> Tockk wrote:
>> "Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote in message
>> news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
>>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to
>>> help cool the building, and especially curious how to make it
>>> automatic.
>>
>>
>> A friend of mine tried this . . . he bought a gizmo that you
>> attached to a garden hose, and it ran on the roof and had several
>> smaller hoses extending from it that dripped water on to the hot
>> roof. He couldn't detect any difference, but it eventually damaged
>> his shingles where the water dripped. No idea why.
> I tried a soaker hose and it just wasn't enough. Also the water liked to follow certain paths so
> most of the roof stayed dry.
Yeah, you really need something with a decent throw like an impulse sprinkler.
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:47 pm
From: Tony Miklos
timeOday wrote:
> Tockk wrote:
>> "Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote in message
>> news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
>>
>>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to
>>> help cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>>
>>
>>
>> A friend of mine tried this . . . he bought a gizmo that you attached
>> to a garden hose, and it ran on the roof and had several smaller hoses
>> extending from it that dripped water on to the hot roof. He couldn't
>> detect any difference, but it eventually damaged his shingles where
>> the water dripped. No idea why.
>
> I would also worry about hard water stains, a problem often created by
> leaky swamp coolers. They can be quite unsightly.
I'm on a steep hill so it's difficult to see my roof unless I'm up in
the woods, and when I'm up in the woods I seldom look at the roof.
Speaking of woods, I'm letting some "trash trees" grow and that will
give the roof a lot of shade in another year or so. I'm not sure what
kind of trees they are, one person told me that they are Balsa. They
grow like weeds. No joke, some new branches grew 7 foot this summer,
and that is after a late freeze killed the first months growth and it
started over after new buds popped out weeks later.
--
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== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:19 pm
From: "Don K"
"Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1187397242.726059.319310@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> I like the idea of the elevated solar panels; do any of the companies
> actually install them that way? I've invented (in my mind of course)
> similar contraptions for the roof like "shades" you could raise to
> allow the air flow and shade.
Spacing a flat panel off the roof, could turn it into an airfoil.
For example, you can get 1120 pounds of lift for a 20x20 foot flat rectangle
in a 100mph airflow at an angle of 1 degree.
Here's a neat applet from NASA that shows the lift you can get from
flat rectangular plate (and other shapes).
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/aerosim/applet/vj402.html
select input to "shape/angle"
change airfoil shape to Plate
change angle-deg to 1
change camber-% to 0
select input to "size"
change chord-ft to ~20
change span-ft to ~20
select input to "flight test"
change speed-mph to 100
set view to show geometry 2D or 3D geometry and streamlines
set output, plot selection to lift vs. speed (or anything)
Then vary the input parameters to see how it behaves.
Don
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How often do you take the family out to dinner?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3a8c926d1dcbd777?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:53 pm
From: timeOday
Ward Abbott wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:19:09 -0000, Joe <joe54345@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm trying to set my budget and I've been taking them out once a week
>>and I'm wondering what other frugal families do.
>
>
> This must be an issue for you. If you can't afford it....you eat at
> home. Period.
>
I think feeding my family at Wendy's costs pretty close to what a
home-cooked meal costs. They have a lot of things on their dollar menu.
A dollar burger and a dollar potato is a filling meal. For dessert I
get a large Frosty and split it 6 ways. And what you pay is the total
price - unlike at home where you clean out your fridge once every other
week and toss a lot of food down the drain (I guess you'll say you don't
do that, but most people do - look at hotdogs, you can't even buy the
right number of buns for the dogs).
Of course home cooking wins hands-down for taste and health. But give
credit where it's due, the American fast-food vendors have cheap eats
down to a science. I don't know how they can serve a burger for $1.
(And no, the answer is not "sawdust").
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Our $500 1969 van Canadian adventure
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2fdae77d25d735f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:06 pm
From: Anthony Matonak
timeOday wrote:
> Anthony Matonak wrote:
>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>
>>> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had
>>> people responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting
>>> I made over a month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or
>>> buy an old van when I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>>
>> A $500 van that wound up costing $1140 and that only had to be towed
>> once and repaired four times with the minor risks of bad brakes, bald
>> tires and a sticking accelerator.
>
> It's definitely a "glass half full"-type situation. But since OhioGuy
> clearly bargain hunts for sport, it was worth it for him. Good, I say.
I've got nothing against folks gambling, taking risks or bargain
hunting. Many folks feel a vacation isn't worth it if they haven't
faced down death at least once.
I just wanted to point out that his $500 van cost much more than $500
and that his savings came at the cost of time out of his vacation and
higher risk. It's just hard to put a dollar figure on waiting around
for the tow truck, stopping to get new tires or that special feeling
when your accelerator sticks or brakes don't quite work.
I put this in the same category as people who drive with their infant
on their lap or after one too many drinks. They take the gamble and
almost all the time they win.
Anthony
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:28 pm
From: "simon"
Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> timeOday wrote:
>> Anthony Matonak wrote:
>>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had
>>>> people responding mentioning off topic comments about another
>>>> posting I made over a month ago, regarding whether I should rent a
>>>> vehicle or buy an old van when I flew out to Bellingham,
>>>> Washington.
>>>
>>> A $500 van that wound up costing $1140 and that only had to be towed
>>> once and repaired four times with the minor risks of bad brakes,
>>> bald tires and a sticking accelerator.
>>
>> It's definitely a "glass half full"-type situation. But since
>> OhioGuy clearly bargain hunts for sport, it was worth it for him. Good, I say.
>
> I've got nothing against folks gambling, taking risks or bargain
> hunting. Many folks feel a vacation isn't worth it if they haven't
> faced down death at least once.
>
> I just wanted to point out that his $500 van cost much more than $500
> and that his savings came at the cost of time out of his vacation and
> higher risk. It's just hard to put a dollar figure on waiting around
> for the tow truck, stopping to get new tires or that special feeling
> when your accelerator sticks or brakes don't quite work.
>
> I put this in the same category as people who drive with their infant
> on their lap or after one too many drinks. They take the gamble and
> almost all the time they win.
Different gamble tho when the worst result is some time wasted.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:30 pm
From: PaPaPeng
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:32:06 -0700, Anthony Matonak
<anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>In short, you took a risk and feel you came out ahead. This isn't so
>much frugality as gambling. It could just as easily have gone the other
>way.
If the troubles during the first week of ownership started to pile it
would have been easy enough to dump the van and write off under $1000.
I think they came off with a great vacation. The only thing I would
add would be to advise anyone doing the same thing, ie. camp at
roadside reststops and a hotel evenry three to four days travel, is to
get your showers at the town swimming pool. A swim is before the
shower is great for stretching tired muscles and to get rid of road
grime.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bump on the road to a free iPod
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6318a0edcf1e715?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:06 pm
From: Gordon
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1Phxi.3$6h3.1@trndny05:
>
> "Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns998EE8DEE78AAgreederxprtnet@199.45.49.11...
>> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:46c3dde8$0$3828
>> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>
>>> Gordon wrote:
>>>> That's what's going to happen.
>>>> I have a few "starter checks" that Key gave me when I
>>>> set up the account. That will take care of the withdrawal.
>>>> I'll leave enough in the Key bank account to cover a $100.00
>>>> automatic payment.
>>>>
>>>> But finding a payment of over $100 is
>>>> going to be an issue. Let's see: Electric? no. Gas? no.
>>>> Phone, internet, cable TV? No, no and no. Cell phone? no.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm...
>>>> I'm starting to see some drawbacks to this frugal lifestyle.
>>>
>>> Just pick the largest bill and make a payment of $100. You'll
>>> have a credit on the account, but you'll eventually use that up.
>>>
>>> - Logan
>>>
>>
>> It has to be an automatic payment. On-line banking doesn't count.
>> It has to be a situation where I tell the power company (say)
>> to directly debit the account. I'm thinking that I'll let a
>> payment slip, then set up auto bill pay. The first draw will
>> be over $100.00
>
> are you sure that they don't report to credit bureaus? i know my
> heating company does.
>
>
>
Ahh! Good catch. I'll check. It used to be that utilities didn't
report. But now, as you have reminded me, many of them do.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The 100% Electric Car With Fuel charge just 2 cent per mile
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/99ba78f1ef057a9d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 11:17 pm
From: Stella
The 100% Electric Car With Fuel charge just 2 cent per mile
http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/100-electric-car.html
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 11:36 pm
From: Anthony Matonak
Stella wrote:
> The 100% Electric Car With Fuel charge just 2 cent per mile
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=damn+bloggers+spam&btnG=Google+Search
Anthony
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