Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 13 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Worth buying digital camera 'extended warranty' ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6e0109f46d36e90d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 9:58 am
From: alex@homelifeweekly.com

Hi
Personally I think the protection plan is a waste of time especially
with electronics, If there is a problem its usually at the beginning
of the items life. Companies know this and thats why they offer these
plans, its easy money for them and very profitable, its all in the
stats

Plus usually this cover is not for accidental damage which is really
what is most likely to cause repairs.

Sales Person "Oh sorry we don't cover accidental damage or wear and
tear it clearly stated in the policy" etc

I would spend the money on buying a bigger memory card.

Regards

Alex
www.HomeLifeWeekly.com
Smart Tips For Your Home Life

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TOPIC: Our $500 1969 van Canadian adventure
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2fdae77d25d735f?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:34 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Thanks for the washup, too rare in my opinion.

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had
> people responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting
> I made over a month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or
> buy an old van when I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>
> Just to satisfy people's curiosity, I suppose I should just give you
> guys the information you would like.
>
> To refresh your memory, we got those $40 round trip tickets from
> Columbus, Ohio to Bellingham, Washington, through Skybus. Originally
> I had just assumed we would be renting a car, but when I saw how much
> the hotels were up across Canada, I found myself wishing we could
> camp more. (many places across Canada, the cheapest hotels are $90 to
> $100 a night. This is because they depend a lot on tourist dollars,
> and tourists are mostly going up there for just 3-4 months a year) We then considered tent
> camping, but found that it was going to be
> getting down in the low to mid 40's at night, and could often be
> rainy where we would be.
> So, we settled on a van. Renting a van for the 23 days would have
> cost us just over $2,000. However, I found one through Craigslist
> for $500, which we would own when we got done with the trip. My wife
> had been wanting a second backup vehicle for some time, saying that
> we needed more room once in a while. (we have two toddlers), and our
> main vehicle is an increasingly small seeming 1996 Buick Century. Lots of folks online told me the
> trip would be nothing but a
> nightmare, and cautioned me against buying the van, saying renting
> was the only safe way to go. I hate to rent, and we could really use
> the van after the trip, so we bought outright instead.
> The trip on the plane went great, and the stewardesses didn't bother
> us much at all, unlike what some people claimed would happen. For
> the most part, I was left in peace to read my book. The plane wasn't
> crowded. We didn't pay for the priority boarding, but since we had
> toddlers, we got on early enough that both of our toddlers got window
> seats, and great views out the window.
>
> Anyway, when we arrived in Bellingham, we went to our hotel, and the
> guy who had advertised the van on Craigslist showed up when he said
> he would, with the van. I checked it out in a parking lot, and since
> it started and drove well, I gave him the $500 for it.
>
> The van came only with the driver and passenger front seat, so I
> added another seat for $80 so that there would be no questions when
> we went into Canada. (regarding seatbelts, etc.) I emailed our
> insurance folks, and had the van added on to our insurance. Since
> this was our second vehicle, it actually somehow caused our rates to
> decrease on our first vehicle as well. Now we have coverage on both
> vehicles for only about 50% more than we were paying before on just
> the car. I didn't expect that. Since the van is equipped for
> camping, though, and we would mostly use it that way, we may only
> drive and insure it during the summers. We haven't made up our minds
> on that part yet.
> Let's see - we got the van licensed and registered, and title
> transferred in Washington, as well as current license plate stickers
> attached for about $150. They are good through July of 2008.
>
> Then we started driving. I decided to have the brakes looked at
> just to see if they were worn too much to be safe. The guy adjusted
> the parts, putting some back properly that hadn't been installed
> right. He also regreased the wheel bearings, all for about $70. He
> said all the brakes had more than 50% life left on them.
>
> Something happened to the accelerator cable near a fishery we were
> visiting, so we had to have it towed to the closest Ford dealership
> with 24 hour repair bays. The tow would have cost us $200, but we
> had GM Motor Club coverage ($39 a year - was a Christmas present from
> my parents), so it didn't cost a cent.
>
> The Ford folks found out that it was a very minor problem, which
> took them all of a couple of hours to fix. Evidently someone had
> tried to mess with the accelerator cable on their own, and had left a
> piece of wire that poked out too far and got stuck. I had also
> noticed that the emergency brake cable was loose, and they fixed that
> so that they worked well. Total cost was $60.
>
> After that, I decided to have the battery changed, which was $70. When I saw part of the steel
> belt sticking out on the right front
> tire, and that the right side of the right front tire was balding, I
> got new front tires for $200. Oh, and I also got an oil change and
> filter at Wal-Mart, plus new windshield wipers for about $25. I left
> the back tires on because they still had a lot of tread, and looked
> good.
> Oh, I almost forgot - there was also a point during the trip when it
> became very difficult to get the van into first gear. (it is a manual
> transmission) I squired WD-40 on the shifter (under the front hood)
> as a short term fix, but later noticed a grease zerk. I went to a
> service station, where they squirted grease in there until we saw it
> coming out. That fixed the problem, so now it shifts easily again. Total cost for that was $10 I
> spotted them for fixing the trouble.
>
> So, my grand total expense thus far for the 1969 Ford Econoline van
> is about $1,170. That's about 55% of what renting a van would have
> cost for just 3 weeks. Plus, I could now turn around easily and get
> my money back out of it if I wanted to. I think instead I'll end up
> retrofitting it into even more of a camper van - perfect for us to
> take on weekend trips to the state parks within 3 hours or so drive
> of here.
> We also camped in it for about half of the nights of our trip,
> staying with relatives some of the other nights, and hotels the rest.
> I'd estimate that we saved $1,200 by camping in the van, rather than
> staying at hotels all the time. Up in Canada, they actually
> encourage you to stay at roadside rests for free! There are signs up
> at many of them saying you can camp overnight for 8 hours for free,
> so we did that for absolutely no cost several times. Oh, since the
> van also had cupboards, which we stocked, we also probably saved
> another $500 by not eating out all that much.
> The van itself is in good shape, with about 135,000 miles on it. A
> Sears Auto tech, after examining it while they changed the battery,
> said that the engine "purred like a kitten", and that he wouldn't be
> surprised at all if it gave us another 100,000 miles of driving. He
> said that he had seen a number of these that had gone more than
> 300,000 miles with regular maintenance - which is what it will be
> getting from me from now on.
> Despite all the naysaying, we had a good trip. Some of the
> highlights:
> visited Mt. St. Helens - got some pumice
>
> camped at La Wis Wis state forest campground
> in lower Washington State - where some of the trees were wider at the
> base than our van
>
> went through Jasper National Park in British Columbia,
> where we went on a boat trip on Maligne Lake. We got to see the
> famous scene of Spirit Island that is often featured on nature
> calendars, postcards, etc. (and which was the wallpaper on one side
> of my room growing up)
>
> went as far North through Saskatchewan and into Manitoba as Flin
> Flon, which is up as far as Alaska. The nights were less than 7
> hours long, with the Western horizon ever so slowly darkening for
> nearly 2 hours after the sunset.
>
> finally got to visit North Dakota, which means that now I've been to
> every State West of the Mississippi.
>
> Worst moment of the trip - coming back across the border, and having
> to wait for 45 minutes while they checked everything out. Especially
> the part when officers came out putting on those rubber gloves,
> making you wonder if a body cavity search was next! I think we have
> too many of those homeland security folks up there at our Northern
> border - because I don't hear a lot about illegal aliens sneaking
> across from Canada. (perhaps we should move half of them down to the
> Mexico border?)
> Total we spent for 23 days of fun and exploration was about $2,800,
> including airfair out West, the van, fuel, food, maintenance and
> occasional hotel rooms. By doing it that way, we spent money we had,
> rather than building up debts on our credit card that we would have
> had to pay on for months.
>
> Could we have done it for less? Sure, but it really made the trip
> seem a lot nicer to eat out once in a while, and to stop at a hotel
> room every 3 or 4 nights.
>
> Of course, it would have been quite easy to spend a lot more on the
> trip. If we had stayed at hotels every night, and eaten out most
> meals, those two expenses could have easily been $2,600 by
> themselves. (remember, Canadian hotels most areas start out at $100 a
> night, and those are the cheap ones)
> Anybody else have any summer vacation stories to share?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 11:31 am
From: "Chloe"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:fa4bmm$300$1@aioe.org...
> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had people
> responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting I made over
> a month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or buy an old van
> when I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>
> Just to satisfy people's curiosity, I suppose I should just give you guys
> the information you would like.
><snip<> Of course, it would have been quite easy to spend a lot more on the
>trip. If we had stayed at hotels every night, and eaten out most meals,
>those two expenses could have easily been $2,600 by themselves. (remember,
>Canadian hotels most areas start out at $100 a night, and those are the
>cheap ones)

I was one of the major naysayers on the idea of buying the van. It sounds
like it worked out very well for you. I'm glad you had a good trip.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 11:32 am
From: Anthony Matonak

OhioGuy wrote:
> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had people
> responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting I made over a
> month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or buy an old van when
> I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.

If I might summarize...
$730 Van, Seat and license.
$ 70 Putting the brakes back together that hadn't been installed right.
$ 60 Towed and fixed sticking accelerator and loose emergency brake.
$270 New battery and replace bald front tires.
$ 10 Grease so it'll shift into first gear.

A $500 van that wound up costing $1140 and that only had to be towed
once and repaired four times with the minor risks of bad brakes, bald
tires and a sticking accelerator.

I wonder if you would be quite so happy if those bald tires, improperly
installed brakes or sticking accelerator had caused you to crash. How
large would the injuries to you or your loved ones have to be to wipe
out the satisfaction of saving a couple of thousand dollars?

Do you even count the value of your vacation time spent messing around
with this vehicle? Say you work 50 weeks a year for 2 weeks vacation.
You would have to work nearly a month for every day of vacation.

In short, you took a risk and feel you came out ahead. This isn't so
much frugality as gambling. It could just as easily have gone the other
way.

Anthony

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 12:27 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Aug 17, 2:32 pm, Anthony Matonak
<anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> OhioGuy wrote:
> > Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had people
> > responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting I made over a
> > month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or buy an old van when
> > I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>
> If I might summarize...
> $730 Van, Seat and license.
> $ 70 Putting the brakes back together that hadn't been installed right.
> $ 60 Towed and fixed sticking accelerator and loose emergency brake.
> $270 New battery and replace bald front tires.
> $ 10 Grease so it'll shift into first gear.
>
> A $500 van that wound up costing $1140 and that only had to be towed
> once and repaired four times with the minor risks of bad brakes, bald
> tires and a sticking accelerator.
>
> I wonder if you would be quite so happy if those bald tires, improperly
> installed brakes or sticking accelerator had caused you to crash. How
> large would the injuries to you or your loved ones have to be to wipe
> out the satisfaction of saving a couple of thousand dollars?
>
> Do you even count the value of your vacation time spent messing around
> with this vehicle? Say you work 50 weeks a year for 2 weeks vacation.
> You would have to work nearly a month for every day of vacation.
>
> In short, you took a risk and feel you came out ahead. This isn't so
> much frugality as gambling. It could just as easily have gone the other
> way.
>
> Anthony

He also could have stayed home and had an F-16 crash into his house.

Sounds to me like he had a super cool road trip.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 1:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 17, 2:32 pm, Anthony Matonak
> <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had
>>> people responding mentioning off topic comments about another
>>> posting I made over a month ago, regarding whether I should rent a
>>> vehicle or buy an old van when I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>>
>> If I might summarize...
>> $730 Van, Seat and license.
>> $ 70 Putting the brakes back together that hadn't been installed
>> right. $ 60 Towed and fixed sticking accelerator and loose emergency
>> brake. $270 New battery and replace bald front tires.
>> $ 10 Grease so it'll shift into first gear.
>>
>> A $500 van that wound up costing $1140 and that only had to be towed
>> once and repaired four times with the minor risks of bad brakes, bald
>> tires and a sticking accelerator.
>>
>> I wonder if you would be quite so happy if those bald tires,
>> improperly installed brakes or sticking accelerator had caused you
>> to crash. How large would the injuries to you or your loved ones
>> have to be to wipe out the satisfaction of saving a couple of
>> thousand dollars?
>>
>> Do you even count the value of your vacation time spent messing
>> around with this vehicle? Say you work 50 weeks a year for 2 weeks
>> vacation. You would have to work nearly a month for every day of
>> vacation.
>>
>> In short, you took a risk and feel you came out ahead. This isn't so
>> much frugality as gambling. It could just as easily have gone the
>> other way.

> He also could have stayed home and had an F-16 crash into his house.

> Sounds to me like he had a super cool road trip.

And even the minor pauses to fix the problems is really
no big deal and provides a bit of a break in the trip.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Health Benefits of Mushroom
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e17f0d33931041ce?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:34 am
From: "Rod Speed"

You've gotta use the magic mushrooms tho.

Philospher <rajeshdiwakar03@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Health Benefits of Mushroom
> Mushroom have medicinal properties and help in fighting cancer also.
> http://foodone.blogspot.com/2007/08/mushrooms-its-benifits-for-health.html

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TOPIC: Attorney Insists Michael Vick Ate Every Dog He Killed, Must Read!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/53ef248ab5c78fbf?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:44 am
From: annis

Attorney Insists Michael Vick Ate Every Dog He Killed, Must Read!

Look Here:

http://www.shop4love.com/classifieds/viewad.asp?id=50296989664100005

One sick bastard...

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TOPIC: Nesessities Versus Luxuries...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/087b5c644b866e74?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:45 am
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or decent modern products are dirt cheap now that so many of them are
>> made in china and only a fool wouldnt buy what makes things
>> convenient.
>>
>> Only a fool only buys necessitys when they can comfortably afford
>> what makes things convenient, and that last clearly applys to most
>> of us.

> what things would you have even if considered NOT a necessity?

Really depends on how you define a necessity.

There's really only a few which are real necessitys in the strictest
sense, just food and water really. Even clothes and houses arent
really a necessity in the sense that you wont die without them.

Gets harder if you define necessitys as stuff you
choose to not be without unless you are destitute etc.

> what things in YOUR mind have value in just making
> life better, easier, etc.... but are NOT necessities?

Virtually everything, particularly the house I designed and built myself,
the bulk of my clothes, my car, I choose to buy a new one every 30 years
or so, rather than buy old bombs whenever the previous one dies, and
I can certainly do without a car at all and have one for the convenience
even tho I cant ride a bike anymore. The flying was certainly not a
necessity, I did it for the enjoyment etc. The internet certainly isnt
a necessity, its what I find convenient. TV etc too. Books to read
in spades. Beer isnt a necessity, tap water keeps me alive fine.
All holidays/trips etc.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:48 am
From: Dennis

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:40:49 -0500, me@privacy.net wrote:

>what things would you have even if considered NOT a
>necessity?
>
>what things in YOUR mind have value in just making life
>better, easier, etc.... but are NOT necessities?

I do quite a bit of DIY projects and repairs. I would not want to be
without my cordless screwdriver/drill or my Sawzall. Certainly, I can
(and have) done projects without them, but they make it so much faster
and easier. I'm also beginning to think the same of my air nailer.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 12:15 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I do quite a bit of DIY projects and repairs. I would not want to be
>without my cordless screwdriver/drill or my Sawzall. Certainly, I can
>(and have) done projects without them, but they make it so much faster
>and easier. I'm also beginning to think the same of my air nailer.

I see

Well it's an interesting question no doubt

I for one could NOT do without some form of Internet
connection. Its the ultimate "tool" for me

I could do without lots of other things but not
Internet

In fact.... Id even like to carry the Internet WITH me
in the form of a smart phone such as Apples new iPhone
or Treo

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 1:09 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do quite a bit of DIY projects and repairs. I would not want to be
>> without my cordless screwdriver/drill or my Sawzall. Certainly, I
>> can (and have) done projects without them, but they make it so much
>> faster and easier. I'm also beginning to think the same of my air
>> nailer.
>
> I see
>
> Well it's an interesting question no doubt
>
> I for one could NOT do without some form of Internet
> connection. Its the ultimate "tool" for me
>
> I could do without lots of other things but not
> Internet
>
> In fact.... Id even like to carry the Internet WITH me
> in the form of a smart phone such as Apples new iPhone
> or Treo

Yeah, I'd never do without it again.

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TOPIC: Motivating high-school students to join college
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0a99ec5ae726fd3?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:53 am
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton <angelicapaganelli@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's a good model of how the real world works. Juggling multiple
>> priorities and switching from one task to another is standard
>> operating procedure out here.
>
> understand that
>
> but not such a god way to "learn" in my
> opinion....especially something such as calculus
>
> Id much rather have ONLY a calculus class every day
> say for three or four hrs daily for several weeks... rather
> than intermixed with other classes (history) for 16 weeks

Come to think of it, that is how I do all the non formal learning.
And I did it with the formal learning with the flying too.

And its normally for a lot more than 3-4 hours a day too.

I generally dont bother with formal learning anymore tho, never bothered with
it with any of the computing, house building, car maintenance, etc etc etc.

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TOPIC: How often do you take the family out to dinner?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3a8c926d1dcbd777?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 10:55 am
From: Dennis

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:05:27 GMT, "Lee K" <lee_keedick@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
><skarkada@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1187291497.704134.188340@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Let us just estimate the cost of eating out every day. Let us say it
>> costs about $25 (including the tip) to eat out every night for a
>> family of four.
>
>!!! $25 for a family of four? Do you eat at McDonald's ALL the time?

My family of 5 had dinner at a local mom'n'pop sitdown cafe last
night. Four of us ate dinner, my son had already eaten and only had a
drink. Total tab (minus tip) was US$24.95.

Dennis (evil)
--
My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin

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TOPIC: "Ask Amy" on hosts who try to shake you down
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bda94bb107c98041?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 11:06 am
From: "cat"

"Winston Smith, American Patriot" <FranzKafka@Oceania.WhiteHouse.GOV> wrote
in message

> Now that I am back in the U.S., I am singularly unimpressed with the
> changes I have seen here. Aside from the complete decline in the quality
> of products and of customer service of many businesses, I see a kind of
> rude self-centeredness in this Generation X---or is it Generation W?----
> that is certainly appalling.

It's not a sudden change.

Almost 30 years ago, I was in the military, stationed far from home (but
within the US). A number of us were invited to a home for Thanksgiving
dinner. At the end of the meal, we were told we had to pay for our share.
The irony is that I had eaten very little, thinking I did not want to use
too much of the family's resources. Had I known I'd be charged for the
food, I'd have at least filled my stomach.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PrinterAnywhere
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b7d6a43e8b172ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 11:29 am
From: "simon"

AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,64307/description.html?tk=nl_ddxd
>
> Send files to someone else's printer -- around the corner or around the world.

No thanks, it makes a lot more sense to send a file that
can be printed if the recipient wants to print it instead.

And the last thing I want is to allow anyone to print on my printer.

> Want to print a document directly on a buddy's printer, anywhere in the world?

Nope.

> If you're both online,

Another massive downside. Makes a lot more sense to make a file available
so that the recipient can get it any time its convenient for them to do that.

> you can do it with PrinterAnywhere. The free utility installs on both PCs and you can choose the
> PrinterAnywhere printer from any application.
> An encrypted version shoots through the 'Net and prints on your buddy's printer.
> Turn the idea around and you can share your printer with anyone. It's ideal for
> sending confidential docs (the file's encrypted when sent) and unlike e-mail,
> it can't be forwarded.

And if the printer stuffs up, you'll never know.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (3w.sneakers-wholesale.com) buy cheap gucci
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/22878ce58c5390f9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 12:23 pm
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TOPIC: Water Sprinkler on hot roof
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd33b11ba1e1b1ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 12:47 pm
From: Tony Miklos

I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.

Thanks,
Tony

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== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 12:42 pm
From: "Bob's Backfire Burrito"

"Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote in message
news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
> cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>

It does NOT work well. It wont pull the heat out of the roof, the Infrared
energy from the sun heats the water before it can run off with the heat it
absorbed.
Besides that, it wastes water,and makes the ground around the place a soggy
mess.
Now if you REALLY want to cool the house, mount solar panels about 4 inches
above the roof, covering the entire roof with shade. The 4 " gap allows air
to
flow between the panels, cooling them and the roof.
Use the power generated by the panels to run the power meter backwards. The
money saved by this can be spent on running the A/C when you really need it.
Cover the windows with "Solarscreens". They are perforated metal covers that
you can see thru, but reflect a lot of the energy so it doesnt heat the
windows more
than the outside airtemp.

There are MANY good ideas, the water trick is not one of them....

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 12:46 pm
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Bob's Backfire Burrito <BLAMPOW!@pullmyfinger.org> wrote:

>"Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
>> cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>
>It does NOT work well. It wont pull the heat out of the roof, the Infrared
>energy from the sun heats the water before it can run off with the heat it
>absorbed.

Woowoowoo. Got any numbers? :-)

Nick

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 12:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:

> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this,

Yep, hordes have.

> how it worked to help cool the building,

Its better than nothing, but not as good as real air conditioning. Much cheaper tho.

> and especially curious how to make it automatic.

Completely trivial to do that. The usual thermostat switches
a solenoid valve and that controls the water to the sprinkler.
You can do it with what you can buy in any decent store.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 1:06 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Bob's Backfire Burrito <BLAMPOW!@pullmyfinger.org> wrote
> Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote

>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to
>> help cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.

> It does NOT work well.

Depends on how you define well. Works a lot better than nothing.

> It wont pull the heat out of the roof, the Infrared energy from the sun heats the water before it
> can run off with the heat it absorbed.

Mindlessly silly. The reality with roofs is that they get a lot
hot due to the heat absorbed and the water does get rid
of most of that heat even if the humidity is quite high.

> Besides that, it wastes water,

Sure, but there is often plenty of water available.

> and makes the ground around the place a soggy mess.

Nope, not if the roof drainage is designed properly.

> Now if you REALLY want to cool the house, mount solar panels about 4 inches above the roof,
> covering the entire roof with shade. The 4 "
> gap allows air to flow between the panels, cooling them and the roof.

Pity that that costs a hell of a lot more than a sprinkler.

> Use the power generated by the panels to run the power meter backwards.

Pity about the cost of doing that.

> The money saved by this can be spent on running the A/C when you really need it.

Nope, the money saved wont even pay for the solar panels.

> Cover the windows with "Solarscreens". They are perforated metal covers that you can see thru, but
> reflect a lot of the energy so it doesnt heat the windows more than the outside airtemp.

Lot cheaper to have appropriate eaves to stop the sun falling on the windows in summer.

> There are MANY good ideas, the water trick is not one of them....

Wrong if you want a very low cost approach. Its a lot better than nothing.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 2:06 pm
From: clams casino

Bob's Backfire Burrito wrote:

>"Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote in message
>news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
>
>
>>I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
>>cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Tony
>>
>>
>>
>
>It does NOT work well. It wont pull the heat out of the roof, the Infrared
>energy from the sun heats the water before it can run off with the heat it
>absorbed.
>
>

Granted, the results are probably marginal, but that makes little sense.

>Besides that, it wastes water,and makes the ground around the place a soggy
>mess.
>
>

You are obviously using way too much water / expecting way too much from
this marginal, but effective method of cooling the roof / attic.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Keeping dust down on a dusty road.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/393453a87e8cc967?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 1:52 pm
From: Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG

In article <georgek-535286.11040216082007@sn-ip.vsrv-
sjc.supernews.net>, georgek@humboldt1.com says...
> Our neighbor used to just get out a sprayer and apply old motor oil.
> Sure keeps the dust down in the summer.

Used motor oil is seriously carcinogenic. I wouldn't want to
have any more contact than it takes to change it in a car. And
certainly not sprayed around.

Also, it may be a crime in your area - improper disposal of
hazardous waste.

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cleaners shrunk a Lambswool sweater - How can I stretch a it out 1 inch
all the way around
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef6d257ac1a2dc4a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 2:46 pm
From: IrishGirl925@gmail.com

The cleaners shrank a lamb's wool sweater. Is there anyway to relax
the fibers or to stretch it back out 1 inch all the way around. Oddly
enough, it shrank more side to side than top to bottom, which is
unusual for wool knits. I felt (on purpose) a lot and they usually
shrink more vertically than horizaontally.

Help this has a faux fur lined hood that didn't seem to shrink and I
am afraid to try the vinegar thing, epseically in really hot water as
that will strip the remaining lanolin from the wool.

ANY ONE ELSE HAVE AN IDEA? I AM FRANTIC!

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Friday, August 17, 2007

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