Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 13 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In defense of GM (Was Hotel Gifts or Non Gifts)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2a8502259075190?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 10:23 am
From: "Chloe"

"Parallax" <Parallax-G@???????.com> wrote in message
news:5fZxi.3385$563.2167@trndny08...
>> In each case I have purchase from a GM dealer (3 year old used although
>> the Sunfire might have been only 2 years old). I don't recall any of
>> these dealers putting in ticky-tack fees on my invoice.
>>
>> Maybe I'm lucky.
>>
>
> Maybe you are. I will never buy another car from GM again. My problem
> has less to with the local shops than it does with the main company. I
> bought an Alero that had known problems with the rotors warping which
> should have been a recall but wasn't. More importantly, I was one of
> thousands of GM owners who had to have expensive work done to replace the
> gaskets on the intake manifold for a problem that GM knew about before the
> cars ever left their plants. Just do a Google search on 'dexcool' for the
> details.

When I said I couldn't think of good instances of customer service, I was
overlooking the very satisfactory experiences I've had with all of the Big
Three Japanese automakers. This is over a long period of years, and I simply
have no reason to ever try driving a car from one of the American
manufacturers again, no matter how good their quality gets. To lose me as a
customer, Japanese quality would have to slip to a pretty abysmal level
before it could match what I went through with American cars back in the
late 70s and 80s. I have a long memory <g>.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 11:51 am
From: clams casino

teleflora wrote:

>>If it wasn't for Paris, I might be tempted to retry a Hilton product (they
>>do seem to be more consistent than other chains), but it will likely be a
>>while.
>>
>>
>
>I guess there's no point in saying that she's living on money her
>grandfather made... about 100 years ago. The money we spend there, might be
>what HER grandchildren live on and hey, maybe one of them could be a rocket
>scientist.
>
>It could happen.
>
>Cindy
>
>
>
>
I rarely (knowingly) buy anything based on advertising, especially if
endorsed by some "celebrity". In fact, I usually avoid any product /
service with celebrity endorsement, etc. IMO, most advertisement is an
attempt to make up for a poor product by building some type of perceived
image for the insecure .

I also avoid products where I dislike management / ownership. Exxon
Mobile & Home Depot come to mind where I dislike their management style
(exorbitant upper management bonuses, etc ).

Hilton comes to mind as dislike of primary ownership. Doors
obviously open for Paris due to her family name, so IMO, their name
should share in her adverse publicity as well.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Fitted up 26/4/96 (153)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1dcc8613f8011a8f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 10:33 am
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Subject: Re: MI5? Please can someone explain what's going on here?
Newsgroups: uk.misc
References: <4l1khm$4cn@utopia.hacktic.nl> <4l2lhj$6h6@bignews.shef.ac.uk>
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:

David Stretch (dds@leicester.ac.uk) wrote:
: In article <19960418.000817.55@hotch.hotch.demon.co.uk>,
: Iain L M Hotchkies <iain@hotch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: >The (remote) possibility remains that 'Mike Corley' is either
: >not schizophrenic (but is 'pretending' to be so) or 'he' is
: >a product of a number of persons (?psychology students).

: Given other ways in which I have seen people exploit some of The Internet's
: capabilities to disrupt or indulge in sophistry, or to exploit a medium
: that resembles speech without the non-verbal and intonation cues, etc
: as a means of denigrating others, I question your use, albeit in quotes,
: of the word "remote". I'm not saying it isn't remote and therefore it is
: great, I'm just saying that I don't think we can easily classify it as
: remote, moderate, or great.

I think you can build up quite a good picture based on what someone says
and on their posting patterns. I don't think "The Internet" (capitals, no
less) is as opaque a medium as you make it out to be.

: It is not easy to determine the validity of all information on The
: Internet without making use of extra supplementary information.

: We do have the problem, pointed out by someone else, of the possibly
: "too perfect" textbook characteristics of what is being posted.

I explained that one, but I don't mind explaining it again (you don't
mind having it explained again to you, do you now?). The reason my
"symptoms" are such a perfect fit to the textbook is because the people
causing the campaign "fitted me up" in such a way that what they did
would resemble the symptoms of schizophrenia. Hence TV, radio, other
media, people in the streets etc. By a fortunate coincidence (for them)
these mthods of harassment are the ones which offer easiest channels of
access (for them).

It's really quite neat. All it takes is for people to start believing
that the "symptoms" aren't symptoms but reality, though, and the house of
cards collapses in a heap. And there are _lots_ of people now who knoiw
full well what has gone on.

: If harrassment by email, etc, has happened by someone out of the country,
: can a complaint be made that results in arrest or whatever upon that
: person's entry into the country? An interesting point which Mike may be
: able to inform us about, as he's said he will be in the UK in a few weeks
: time.

Picture the scene at the airport;
"I arrest you for being Mike Corley and mailbombing people"

"But my name isn't Corley. Who he? Mailbombing isn't illegal is it? You'd
have to lock up a lot of people if sending annoying email was a crime"

"Er....."

: --
: David Stretch: Greenwood Institute of Child Health, Univ. of Leicester, UK.
: dds@leicester.ac.uk Phone:+44 (0)116-254-6100 Fax:+44 (0)116-254-4127
========================================================================

: context-free parts of articles, conversations and things-on-the-TV and
: assume they are meant for you. Mike, this is called paranoia.

But that's the way real abuse works, too. People interject words and
phrases into what they say which they know will have meaning for the listener.

And sometimes, they make it obvious. The very first evening of my job in
Oxford, we went for a drink with the technical director, and a couple
of other employees. The TD said in an "as-if" aside to one of the others,
"Is this the bloke who's been on TV?" (he said it directly in front of
me, and obviously meant mke to hear him saying it). The other person
replied, "Yes, I think so".

I think the subtext of what the TD said was "Why are they bothering with
him? He's so insignificant, why would they possibly want to spend the
resources going after him and putting all that expensive technology in
his home, when there must be much better targets?". The Technical
Director was given to sometimes disrespecting people, you see, and in my
case he couldn't see the point of anyone expending money on harassing me.

====================================================================

Subject: Re: Treatment of Schizophrenia
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.legal,uk.politics,alt.politics.british
Followup-To: uk.misc,uk.legal,uk.politics,alt.politics.british
References: <153321Z22041996@anon.penet.fi> <4lge6r$p00@news.ox.ac.uk>
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:

Illtud Daniel (idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
: Probably 'cos you come across as reasoned & articulate, it's a pity
: about the other stuff :)

Veracity is so unreasonable.

: >>pps. You should still see a doc again Mike.
: >
: >Doing so. Trouble is, all this mental-illness stuff provides camouflage
: >for the harassment, which is real. It alows people who otherwise would
: >consider the harassment seriously to disregard it. It makes conversations
: >with a lawyer or police brief when otherwise it would merit discussion.

: The point is that there are two possibilities happening here-

: 1. There's a large conspiracy of people out to get you, for no
: other reason than that they have the means to do so, and that
: it involves a lot of the Media & a proportion of the public

: 2. You (who admit to having some headspace problems) are suffering
: from acute paranoid schizophrenia.

: Possibility #1 is _possible_, but would be unprecendented (OTOH,
: how would we know?), unfeasible, and many other things beginning
: with _un_ which I can't think of at the moment. Besides, if there
: was something going on, chances are some of us here would know
: about it, and I'm convinced that nobody does.

"Unprecedented" hits the nail on the head. It _is_ unprecedented, but we
have only just reached the technical stage at which it is feasible, and
we know video-spying is done to other people (NB the Diana-Hewitt
episode) and is a routine tool of security agencies.

Perhaps what is unprecedented is not the technical side, but the social
manipulation of many people by a concealed element in what other
countries would be called the secret police. The most disturbing element
is the degree to which people allow themselves to be unquestioningly
manipulated by an evil element within the state.

153

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who loves ya, Rush?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50fc4bce846b7dea?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 11:11 am
From: Scott in SoCal

bearclaw@cruller.invalid said in misc.consumers:

>In article <46c7e269$0$16445$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:
>
>> And just so we're clear, I am a LEGAL immigrant
>
>Let's see if we can change that, eh? Go back where you came from. Get
>out of my country now, or I'll write a new law that makes YOUR ass
>illegal, and bars your mewling inbred grandchildren from attending ANY
>school. How's that sound, you illegal jackass?

It sounds like you are a complete tool.
--
More reasons why PayPal SUCKS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_7--e5A1g

==============================================================================
TOPIC: go go go!!!!!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5c37dccdf76b0235?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 11:14 am
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TOPIC: www.nikesneakers4u.com cheap gucci sneakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5d332d44c9755320?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: AOR Macushield
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/45be5847252c920e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 12:04 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

gabriele001@gmail.com wrote:

> There are a few good vitamin firms out there that have
> amazing products to help us all for better health and wellness.

Nope, just lots of suckers as stupid as you.

> Secondly, there are products on the market that can
> and will help you with your cleansing of your home

My house doesnt need 'cleansing', because I'm not a neurotic.

> and eco friendly and safe for your pets too.

Its that without any of that shit thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Me" generation marriages..
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7219bb5b3666a535?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 12:07 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

<Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
news:MPG.213172dfa0b1a3cd989cd7@nntp.aioe.org...
> In article <EMhxi.2$pf3.1@trndny06>, derjda@hotmail.com says...
>
>> <Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.212eeb3cfc67948d989ccb@nntp.aioe.org...
>> > In article <NyIwi.939$Vd.551@trndny02>, derjda@hotmail.com
>> > says...
>> snip
>> >> which is why there's a good chance i won't marry again. i'd need a
>> >> long
>> >> (years) celibate courtship to trust the men of today, and there aren't
>> >> too
>> >> many men out there that would stand for that in this day and age.
>
>
>> > And there are also plenty of women who would refuse a similar,
>> > "No, I won't give you any money or presents" restriction for that
>> > same extended period.
>
>
>> are you saying sex is bought with presents/presents are
>> received for sex?
>
>
> Not exactly.
>
> As you apparently understand with the, "long (years) celibate
> courtship" requirement, a woman should make sure that she isn't
> going to be treated as an undignified booty call. To be used
> just for sex. Because that view can arise if she puts out too
> soon in the relationship.
>
> However, a man also should make sure that he isn't going to be
> treated as a walking wallet.
>
> Cool women don't want to be hoes. And cool men don't want to be
> tricks.
>
> And I have seen UNcool women pull this. Hinting, or directly
> stating, that she is just sooooo attracted to some guy. With the
> hint (often NOT direct statement) of promising sex. And the real
> motivation is to lead him around by his dick. Extracting
> favours, presents, money, housing, and, sometimes, drug-enabling.
>
> Sometimes, after a period of very overt "Oh-I-Love-You," lying,
> it comes time for her to put her actions where her words are.
> And the woman will suddenly draw back with, "Well, uh, I decided
> that we are just friends. And you would be such an arsehole if
> you reduced your generosity (and bad-behaviour-tolorance) because
> of that. It would be like you abusing me, or trying to coerce me
> into sex. Like trying to use me as a whore."
>
> When, of course, she really IS a whore, of the psychological
> type.
>
> The way for a man to avoid those types, is to be just as
> restrained with his wallet, as the woman is with sex.
>
> The cool woman will stay. And the lying hoe will go bother
> someone else.
>
>
>> not me. the only day my husband has to acknowledge is our wedding
>> anniversary, and it can be just verbal. no requirement for presents
>> ever,
>> not bd, xmas, valentines, any other day. no cards, flowers, chocolates,
>> dinners out, nighties, jewelry, etc. is required. i am not for sale.
>> not even a big dick can purchase me. ;)
>
>
> Well, interestingly, I have also seen my above-described scenario
> happen in woman-to-woman platonic "friendships." There are
> female parasites who target other females with the false promise
> of "friendship." Right up to the level of viewing a new female
> acquaintance as a personal servant, limousine, soup kitchen,
> welfare agency, and all-around emotional punching bag.
>
> And the advantage there is that the target woman isn't likely to
> say, "No Sex, No Cash," like a man might. Plus the strange
> belief that female parasites have, that all prospective female
> hosts are just soooooo weak that we can be guilt-tripped into
> effectively infinite "generosity" and abuse-tolorance.
>
> Really... A prospective woman-to-woman "friendship" should be
> viewed with the same suspicion as that held by a guy who doesn't
> want to be used as a free ATM by some chick whom he is dating.

correct. i have 3 female friends, none of whom live near me. i don't
think anything like most women, and that's why i don't get along with
virtually 100% of them.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 12:18 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

we agree. if i'm ever widowed, my i look you up? :)
>
> And I have seen UNcool women pull this. Hinting, or directly
> stating, that she is just sooooo attracted to some guy. With the
> hint (often NOT direct statement) of promising sex. And the real
> motivation is to lead him around by his dick. Extracting
> favours, presents, money, housing, and, sometimes, drug-enabling.

> Sometimes, after a period of very overt "Oh-I-Love-You," lying,
> it comes time for her to put her actions where her words are.
> And the woman will suddenly draw back with, "Well, uh, I decided
> that we are just friends. And you would be such an arsehole if
> you reduced your generosity (and bad-behaviour-tolorance) because
> of that. It would be like you abusing me, or trying to coerce me
> into sex. Like trying to use me as a whore."
>
> When, of course, she really IS a whore, of the psychological
> type.

a glorified prostitute. no wait, no glorification about it.
yeah, i see these gals all the time, but just try to get the
guy to listen.

> The way for a man to avoid those types, is to be just as
> restrained with his wallet, as the woman is with sex.
>
> The cool woman will stay. And the lying hoe will go bother
> someone else.

and lots of men (most?) will try to give you stuff in order to
make you feel that you owe sex.

or they divorce their long-time wives for fun with younger
models (this doesn't apply to me, just so you know). unfortunately,
there seems to be little honor either way, these days.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 12:27 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

<Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
news:MPG.213172dfa0b1a3cd989cd7@nntp.aioe.org...
> In article <EMhxi.2$pf3.1@trndny06>, derjda@hotmail.com says...
>
snip

> As you apparently understand with the, "long (years) celibate
> courtship" requirement, a woman should make sure that she isn't
> going to be treated as an undignified booty call. To be used
> just for sex. Because that view can arise if she puts out too
> soon in the relationship.

why can a guy go whoring around with impunity?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Water Sprinkler on hot roof
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd33b11ba1e1b1ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 12:56 pm
From: "hankus"

The ROOF but not necessarily the house gets cooler with a sprinkler...and
this evaporative affect IS related to humidity...on a triple digit,dry day,a
sprinkler will break but not stop the heat as in AZ at noon....a roof vent
or passive attic ventilator with side vents or good soffit vents will help
in any clime...if one is starting from scratch,'tis better to build a house
with 6" rather than 4" walls and the extra insulation possible pays off.
--
Thanks
Hank (on the Gulf Coast-where it is always humid but seafood is cheap)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 1:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

hankus <hbienert@cox.net> wrote:

> The ROOF but not necessarily the house gets cooler with a sprinkler...

Yes, like I said, whether the house gets cooler depends on how well the roof is insulated.

> and this evaporative affect IS related to humidity...

It isnt just an evaporative effect.

> on a triple digit,dry day,a sprinkler will break but not stop the heat as in AZ at noon....a roof
> vent or passive attic ventilator with side vents or good soffit vents will help in any clime...

Nope, not if the ceiling is well insulated, the temperature
of the roofspace doesnt necessarily matter at all.

> if one is starting from scratch,'tis better to build a house with 6" rather than 4" walls

Depends on the climate.

> and the extra insulation possible pays off.

And doesnt in some climates.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A cool new way to search Google with the Firefox browser
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4a40802bd9479849?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 12:57 pm
From: Beaker

The Internet Explorer version is now available on our site. It works
for XP and previous, a Vista version is currently under construction.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 1:21 pm
From: George Grapman

Beaker wrote:
> The Internet Explorer version is now available on our site. It works
> for XP and previous, a Vista version is currently under construction.
>
Why do I need your site when mozilla offers it and I know I will not
get spyware or viruses there?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Psychological Warfare Techniques Used on Your Doctor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f35fb63a1849c153?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 12:57 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

Pharmaceutical sales reps are trained in tactics that are on par with some
of the most potent brainwashing techniques used throughout the world,
according to an in-depth report co-written by former Eli Lilly drug rep
Shahram Ahari, and Adriane Fugh-Berman, associate professor of physiology
and biophysics at Georgetown University Medical Center in Washington, D.C..

Pharmaceutical companies spend more than $15 billion each year promoting
prescription drugs in the United States.

These campaigns are designed to effectively alter prescribing behavior, to
sell more of the high-profit drugs (as opposed to the most effective, and
least dangerous).

..............

The fact that sales reps for drug companies serve no useful function other
than driving up sales for their blockbuster drugs -- at your expense -- is
no surprise. What may shock you though, is just how insidious their sales
tactics really are.

Last weekend I saw a woman who used to work for me 13 years ago. She wound
up going to a four year naturopathic college, but prior to going to ND
school she worked as a drug rep. I heard firsthand, detailed stories of the
corrupt and deceitful practices they use. I am hoping I can convince her to
write an article that goes into more details.

Rest assured that there is MASSIVE waste and fraud in the drug industry. In
the end, you are the one paying the price twice, by emptying out your wallet
and endangering your health with drugs you probably don't need in the first
place.

Drug reps are not your run-of-the-mill salespeople. They are meticulously
trained to spot the weaknesses of every client. Doctors usually believe they
are immune to persuasion tactics, and drug reps know just how important it
is to maintain that illusion.

full article here:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/08/18/drug-company-reps-are-using-psychological-warfare-techniques-on-your-doctor.aspx

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 1:23 pm
From: "simon"

AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Pharmaceutical sales reps are trained in tactics that are on par with some of the most potent
> brainwashing techniques used throughout the world,

Mindlessly silly hyperbole.

> according to an in-depth report co-written by former Eli Lilly drug rep Shahram Ahari, and Adriane
> Fugh-Berman, associate professor of physiology and biophysics at Georgetown University Medical
> Center in Washington, D.C..

Neither of whom actually have a clue about real brainwashing techniques.

> Pharmaceutical companies spend more than $15 billion each year promoting prescription drugs in the
> United States.

Bugger all of that is spent on the drug reps.

> These campaigns are designed to effectively alter prescribing
> behavior, to sell more of the high-profit drugs (as opposed to the most effective, and least
> dangerous).

That last is easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

> ..............

> The fact that sales reps for drug companies serve no useful function other than driving up sales
> for their blockbuster drugs

Another bare faced lie.

> -- at your expense -- is no surprise. What may shock you though, is just how insidious their sales
> tactics really are.

> Last weekend I saw a woman who used to work for me 13 years ago. She wound up going to a four
> year naturopathic college,

That flaunts her obvious bias.

> but prior to going to ND school she worked as a drug rep. I heard firsthand,
> detailed stories of the corrupt and deceitful practices they use. I am hoping I can convince her
> to write an article that goes into more details.

> Rest assured that there is MASSIVE waste and fraud in the drug industry.

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

> In the end, you are the one paying the price twice, by emptying out your wallet

Mine doesnt get emptied.

> and endangering your health with drugs you probably don't need in the first place.

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

> Drug reps are not your run-of-the-mill salespeople. They are
> meticulously trained to spot the weaknesses of every client. Doctors usually believe they are
> immune to persuasion tactics, and drug reps know just how important it is to maintain that
> illusion.

> full article here:

> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/08/18/drug-company-reps-are-using-psychological-warfare-techniques-on-your-doctor.aspx

Just the usual utterly mindless claims.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Our $500 1969 van Canadian adventure
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2fdae77d25d735f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 1:40 pm
From: Zuke

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Anthony Matonak wrote:

> timeOday wrote:
>> Anthony Matonak wrote:
>>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had people
>>>> responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting I made
>>>> over a month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or buy an old
>>>> van when I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>>>
>>> A $500 van that wound up costing $1140 and that only had to be towed
>>> once and repaired four times with the minor risks of bad brakes, bald
>>> tires and a sticking accelerator.
>>
>> It's definitely a "glass half full"-type situation. But since OhioGuy
>> clearly bargain hunts for sport, it was worth it for him. Good, I say.
>
> I've got nothing against folks gambling, taking risks or bargain
> hunting. Many folks feel a vacation isn't worth it if they haven't
> faced down death at least once.
>
> I just wanted to point out that his $500 van cost much more than $500
> and that his savings came at the cost of time out of his vacation and
> higher risk. It's just hard to put a dollar figure on waiting around
> for the tow truck, stopping to get new tires or that special feeling
> when your accelerator sticks or brakes don't quite work.

I got stuck with my young children on a busy highway once. A piece
came off a tanker truck and hit our car. Fortunately my wife was
able to get control of the car and pull off to the left median.
So we are stuck on a busy highway with cars buzzing by us at 70mph.
And our car was stuck right after a short bend. I thought one place
we don't want to be is in front of the car. Then I took the older
child, probable six and my wife took the younger one, about 2. I told
my wife, once we get a break in the traffic we have to get across
this expressway. Once when I was about twelve, me and two of my
knucklehead friends on a dare ran across a highway. I was shocked
at that time how fast cars moving 70mph can get up on you.
Fortunately in this case we were able to make it across and into
the relative safety of the berm. Then the cops showed up 10 or 15
minutes later and everything worked out ok. We were even able to
idenfity the truck that had lost the stanchion that had hit our car.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 1:45 pm
From: Zuke

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007, OhioGuy wrote:

>> Do you even count the value of your vacation time spent >messing around
>> with this vehicle?
>
> Not really - most of that was up front, during the first 6 days of the
> trip. We are talking about a 23 day vacation here, not just a shorter week
> trip. I had already allowed for several days staying in hotels up front,
> since I figured that there would be at least SOME things that would need
> some work, while we were still close to civilization. I knew that once we
> started driving in earnest, we would no longer be by the big cities, and
> would be on our own a lot more. Better to get the glitches worked out, and
> potential problems taken care of up front. Besides, it gave us an excuse to
> stay in some nicer hotels while still in the USA (Washington), where the
> hotels were available for half the prices they would have cost later in
> Canada.
>
> So, my wife and kids didn't mind at all, since it meant sleeping in more
> comfortable hotel with pool those days, and getting better night's sleep. I
> guess there's an upside to everything - even auto repair!
>

This sounds like the roadtrip in the movie "Little Miss Sunshine". Congrats
on having a good time and saving money. Your kids probably learned a little
something about life too. I don't think you exhibited any irresponsibility.
You tried to cut your risks as much as possible. Enjoy the camping
at the state parks also.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 2:25 pm
From: James

On Aug 17, 11:34 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had people
> responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting I made over a
> month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or buy an old van when
> I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>
> Just to satisfy people's curiosity, I suppose I should just give you guys
> the information you would like.
>
> To refresh your memory, we got those $40 round trip tickets from Columbus,
> Ohio to Bellingham, Washington, through Skybus. Originally I had just
> assumed we would be renting a car, but when I saw how much the hotels were
> up across Canada, I found myself wishing we could camp more. (many places
> across Canada, the cheapest hotels are $90 to $100 a night. This is because
> they depend a lot on tourist dollars, and tourists are mostly going up there
> for just 3-4 months a year) We then considered tent camping, but found that
> it was going to be getting down in the low to mid 40's at night, and could
> often be rainy where we would be.
>
> So, we settled on a van. Renting a van for the 23 days would have cost us
> just over $2,000. However, I found one through Craigslist for $500, which
> we would own when we got done with the trip. My wife had been wanting a
> second backup vehicle for some time, saying that we needed more room once in
> a while. (we have two toddlers), and our main vehicle is an increasingly
> small seeming 1996 Buick Century. Lots of folks online told me the trip
> would be nothing but a nightmare, and cautioned me against buying the van,
> saying renting was the only safe way to go. I hate to rent, and we could
> really use the van after the trip, so we bought outright instead.
>
> The trip on the plane went great, and the stewardesses didn't bother us
> much at all, unlike what some people claimed would happen. For the most
> part, I was left in peace to read my book. The plane wasn't crowded. We
> didn't pay for the priority boarding, but since we had toddlers, we got on
> early enough that both of our toddlers got window seats, and great views out
> the window.
>
> Anyway, when we arrived in Bellingham, we went to our hotel, and the guy
> who had advertised the van on Craigslist showed up when he said he would,
> with the van. I checked it out in a parking lot, and since it started and
> drove well, I gave him the $500 for it.
>
> The van came only with the driver and passenger front seat, so I added
> another seat for $80 so that there would be no questions when we went into
> Canada. (regarding seatbelts, etc.) I emailed our insurance folks, and had
> the van added on to our insurance. Since this was our second vehicle, it
> actually somehow caused our rates to decrease on our first vehicle as well.
> Now we have coverage on both vehicles for only about 50% more than we were
> paying before on just the car. I didn't expect that. Since the van is
> equipped for camping, though, and we would mostly use it that way, we may
> only drive and insure it during the summers. We haven't made up our minds
> on that part yet.
>
> Let's see - we got the van licensed and registered, and title transferred
> in Washington, as well as current license plate stickers attached for about
> $150. They are good through July of 2008.
>
> Then we started driving. I decided to have the brakes looked at just to
> see if they were worn too much to be safe. The guy adjusted the parts,
> putting some back properly that hadn't been installed right. He also
> regreased the wheel bearings, all for about $70. He said all the brakes had
> more than 50% life left on them.
>
> Something happened to the accelerator cable near a fishery we were
> visiting, so we had to have it towed to the closest Ford dealership with 24
> hour repair bays. The tow would have cost us $200, but we had GM Motor Club
> coverage ($39 a year - was a Christmas present from my parents), so it
> didn't cost a cent.
>
> The Ford folks found out that it was a very minor problem, which took them
> all of a couple of hours to fix. Evidently someone had tried to mess with
> the accelerator cable on their own, and had left a piece of wire that poked
> out too far and got stuck. I had also noticed that the emergency brake
> cable was loose, and they fixed that so that they worked well. Total cost
> was $60.
>
> After that, I decided to have the battery changed, which was $70. When I
> saw part of the steel belt sticking out on the right front tire, and that
> the right side of the right front tire was balding, I got new front tires
> for $200. Oh, and I also got an oil change and filter at Wal-Mart, plus new
> windshield wipers for about $25. I left the back tires on because they
> still had a lot of tread, and looked good.
>
> Oh, I almost forgot - there was also a point during the trip when it
> became very difficult to get the van into first gear. (it is a manual
> transmission) I squired WD-40 on the shifter (under the front hood) as a
> short term fix, but later noticed a grease zerk. I went to a service
> station, where they squirted grease in there until we saw it coming out.
> That fixed the problem, so now it shifts easily again. Total cost for that
> was $10 I spotted them for fixing the trouble.
>
> So, my grand total expense thus far for the 1969 Ford Econoline van is
> about $1,170. That's about 55% of what renting a van would have cost for
> just 3 weeks. Plus, I could now turn around easily and get my money back
> out of it if I wanted to. I think instead I'll end up retrofitting it into
> even more of a camper van - perfect for us to take on weekend trips to the
> state parks within 3 hours or so drive of here.
>
> We also camped in it for about half of the nights of our trip, staying
> with relatives some of the other nights, and hotels the rest. I'd estimate
> that we saved $1,200 by camping in the van, rather than staying at hotels
> all the time. Up in Canada, they actually encourage you to stay at roadside
> rests for free! There are signs up at many of them saying you can camp
> overnight for 8 hours for free, so we did that for absolutely no cost
> several times. Oh, since the van also had cupboards, which we stocked, we
> also probably saved another $500 by not eating out all that much.
>
> The van itself is in good shape, with about 135,000 miles on it. A Sears
> Auto tech, after examining it while they changed the battery, said that the
> engine "purred like a kitten", and that he wouldn't be surprised at all if
> it gave us another 100,000 miles of driving. He said that he had seen a
> number of these that had gone more than 300,000 miles with regular
> maintenance - which is what it will be getting from me from now on.
>
> Despite all the naysaying, we had a good trip. Some of the highlights:
>
> visited Mt. St. Helens - got some pumice
>
> camped at La Wis Wis state forest campground
> in lower Washington State - where some of the trees were wider at the base
> than our van
>
> went through Jasper National Park in British Columbia,
> where we went on a boat trip on Maligne Lake. We got to see the famous
> scene of Spirit Island that is often featured on nature calendars,
> postcards, etc. (and which was the wallpaper on one side of my room growing
> up)
>
> went as far North through Saskatchewan and into Manitoba as Flin Flon, which
> is up as far as Alaska. The nights were less than 7 hours long, with the
> Western horizon ever so slowly darkening for nearly 2 hours after the
> sunset.
>
> finally got to visit North Dakota, which means that now I've been to every
> State West of the Mississippi.
>
> Worst moment of the trip - coming back across the border, and having to wait
> for 45 minutes while they checked everything out. Especially the part when
> officers came out putting on those rubber gloves, making you wonder if a
> body cavity search was next! I think we have too many of those homeland
> security folks up there at our Northern border - because I don't hear a lot
> about illegal aliens sneaking across from Canada. (perhaps we should move
> half of them down to the Mexico border?)
>
> Total we spent for 23 days of fun and exploration was about $2,800,
> including airfair out West, the van, fuel, food, maintenance and occasional
> hotel rooms. By doing it that way, we spent money we had, rather than
> building up debts on our credit card that we would have had to pay on for
> months.
>
> Could we have done it for less? Sure, but it really made the trip seem a
> lot nicer to eat out once in a while, and to stop at a hotel room every 3 or
> 4 nights.
>
> Of course, it would have been quite easy to spend a lot more on the trip.
> If we had stayed at hotels every night, and eaten out most meals, those two
> expenses could have easily been $2,600 by themselves. (remember, Canadian
> hotels most areas start out at $100 a night, and those are the cheap ones)
>
> Anybody else have any summer vacation stories to share?

I was a naysayer too. I've bought used cars that did not work out that
well, even though they had been thoroughly inspected.
Congrats on your good luck.

As for "Canadian Hotels" thats like saying US hotels. Its a huge
generalization. Of course you are going to find that the touristy
areas have higher prices and seasonally adjusted rates - I just stayed
in Santa Barbara, California last week - same story, But if you look
you can find hotels acoss Canada for much less than your quoted rates,
even in high season. I went last year to rent a cottage in PEI and had
to stop at a motel along the way - $59. for a room with two twins -
nothing fancy but clean. Super 8 advertise their rates around Toronto
- $69. Hotels.com and expedia are good choices for Canada. Last year a
friend of mine came from Ireland and got a downtown "mid luxury"
Toronto hotel within walking distance of the financial and theatre
districts for $125 a night by going on line and watching for specials.
She could have gotten a lower end but clean for well undre a hundred,
or stayed farther out for $69.

I can imagine it might be low to mid 40s in Flin Flon at nigth , but
not many other places in Canada.

My unfrugal vacation:

Flew to LA area to see the inlaws. They been to see us twice in
Toronto, driving both times. My wife isn't well and we thought flying
would be better than driving. They provided a place to stay, and
offered to fund some of the kids attractions.

We flew out of Buffalo airport, for the first time - much cheaper
flights, cheaper long term parking and no need for passports(yet).
$1700 US for 5 of us to fly round trip to LA - via Atlanta both
times.

First hassle was parking - parked in long term followed the
instructions went to a booth and hit a button - and watched 7 shuttles
pass us by -not coming close to us. We then trundled ourselves to
another booth (wife in walker) and finally on our way. The flashing
light in the first booth was broken. We could have been there all day.

Homeland security sure has stepped up since I last flew in the US
(about a year ago). Don't assume you know the process anymore.

We didn't need a rent a car, as my Father in law's mother doesn't
drive but has a 12 year old minivan in great shape. I did pay for gas,
which is about 3/4 of the Canadian price.

Joshua Tree National Park - beautiful desert. Not expensive. Bring
your own water and lots of it. Bring your camera. Suprisingly its true
what they say here - its not the heat its the humidity. In the <1%
humidity, the hot desert air didn't feel so bad. Stopped on the way
back at Hadley's and had a Date Milkshare - share one, they are really
thick and yummy.

Disney. FIL paid close to $300 for admission of 5. It was fun, if you
don't mind crowds. No discounts for single day passes. We didn't pack
our own food, Just had lunch - about $40 for 5 of us - not bad food
either actually - pasta. I'm sure there were more expensive places
there to eat. Kids enjoyed it, lines were too much for FIL. Souvenirs
not terribly priced, but you can find some of the Tshirts at the local
CVS for much less :)

Santa Barbara - left the kids with the in laws and took my wife to
Santa Barbara. Beyond the smog of LA, cooler. Shopped online for
hotels - they are expensive there - found a modest one for $150 that
was still a walk to the beach. Could have saved a lot by staying 10
miles out of town. Took a catamaran tour of the harbour and used the
coupon they gave us for dinner - not bad at all actually. Main courses
from $16 - $30 so a $10 coupon was good. Tour of the local mission -
good and inexpensive. Took the local scenic drive tour - free.

Santa Monica pier - on the way back from Santa Barbara took the PCH
through Malibu and stopped at Santa Monica Pier. Parking was $7.00 for
all day. No admittance fee to pier. Had lunch at Mexican place at end
of pier - pretty good and not expensive.

Raging waters - huge water park had a special - buy one day pass and
get another free - I took the kids the second day. Still had to pay
for parking ($9) and lockers ($11 for a tiny one, $5 refunded when you
return the key). Kids had a lot of fun.

Watts towers - look it up on internet - art pieces in the middle of
watts - no where to legally park though - and not the nicest
neighbourhood but I've seen worse.

Pinks - hot dog stand to the stars - loved their chili cheese and
bacon dog - $4.30 - long lines at lunch time though. (laBrea)

Few general comments.

Supermarket pricing - similar - more lost leaders, and california
produce is cheaper in CA than Ontario produce is in Ontario.

Wine - much cheaper in US.

Restaurant meals - bout the same.

Cars (from the ads) much cheaper in US.

Gas - cheaper, as I said 3/4.

Its true you do pretty much need a car in LA - everything is far,
transit is non existent, and parking is $$ and hard to find.

Oh and my discount airline serves pretzels and mangled all my luggage
- tore the handles off and ripped it.

James

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What the heck has happened here?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b2f712e04d6c1337?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 1:45 pm
From: Wooly

I mostly gave up on newsgroups for quite a while...Last time I checked
here there was plenty of discussion going on relevant to the group name.
Now it looks like about 90% spam.

How sad.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 2:21 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

Wooly wrote:
> I mostly gave up on newsgroups for quite a while...Last time I checked
> here there was plenty of discussion going on relevant to the group name.
> Now it looks like about 90% spam.
> How sad.

All that is required for spammers to take over is for good
posters to do nothing.

Anthony

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 2:33 pm
From: "simon"

Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> Wooly wrote:
>> I mostly gave up on newsgroups for quite a while...Last time I
>> checked here there was plenty of discussion going on relevant to the
>> group name. Now it looks like about 90% spam.
>> How sad.
>
> All that is required for spammers to take over is for good posters to do nothing.

Pity that there is nothing effective 'good posters' can do about spammers.

In spades with the spam done using google.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 2:48 pm
From: clams casino

Anthony Matonak wrote:

> Wooly wrote:
>
>> I mostly gave up on newsgroups for quite a while...Last time I
>> checked here there was plenty of discussion going on relevant to the
>> group name. Now it looks like about 90% spam.
>> How sad.
>
>
> All that is required for spammers to take over is for good
> posters to do nothing.
>
> Anthony

After forwarding perhaps a hundred complaints to Google groups, hotmail
& fjdcb.fz.fj.cn & cndata.com, there has been NO let up in the Chinese
shoewear / handbag spam.

They seem to comprise about 75% of the spam on this newsgroup. Most of
the rest seems to be from a bloger in India via airtel.in..

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 3:04 pm
From: Barbara R

Who owns this group?

Does anyone have the authority to moderate?

Barbara R

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Resumes CV's CURRICULUM VITAE / Top Interview Questions / Informational
Site
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/02b2bf50268eca1b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 19 2007 3:38 pm
From: rawebadvert3

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Sunday, August 19, 2007

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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