Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 12 topics

Sunday, December 30, 2007

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Panasonic KX-6054B - base speaker noise
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86fabb358c5ff016?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 11:43 am
From: "P.Schuman"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5tjngoF1dj1c2U1@mid.individual.net...
> Don K <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>> "P.Schuman" <pschuman_NO_SPAM_ME@interserv.com> wrote in message
>> news:o6xcj.81440$Um6.50382@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>>> Just picked up a new Panasonic TG6054B 5.8Ghz cordless phone system
>>> with 4 handsets (KX-TGA600) and the single answering base unit....
>>> KX-6051 Wonder if there are any other more appropriate newsgroups for
>>> "cordless phones" ?
>>>
>>> It works great.... the feature I wanted was the ability to have
>>> Caller ID match up to an internal phone book entry, like on a cell
>>> phone. We noticed that more and more calls were coming from cell phones,
>>> and we just couldn't remember everyone's number as it appears on CID,
>>> and the "names" displayed were just generic "cellular" in most cases.
>>>
>>> Anyway - the system works great.... there are some minor issues,
>>> like when copying the phonebook entries to other handsets,
>>> you don't have to the option to walk thru all the other handsets at
>>> once, but must walk thru the entire keyboard process for each.
>>
>> Are you sure about that?
>> I have an older version and I can copy the entire phonebook from
>> any handset to any other handset with a few keystrokes.
>> Menu (down-down-down-down)
>> copy phonebook (select)
>> copy one item (down)
>> copy all items (select)
>> enter extension (1,2,3)

wants to copy to all handsets, not just one handset at a time..
CORRECT

>>> Recently - (reason for posting)
>>> noticed something "weird" on the small base unit.
>>> When using any handset...
>>> the "speaker" on the base unit has a random spurt of raspy sound
>>> like when someone talks loud on the handset,
>>> and it is only for a split second (peak)
>>> then comes out on the base speaker.....
>>> It's random, and for just a split second....
>>
>> I've had no problem like that.
>> Try toggling the "voice enhancer" on or off.
>>
>> Don
>

now - the random raspy interference is not happening right now,

but.... when ANY handset goes on TALK, there is a "speaker pop" on the base
unit.
Then when ANY handset is turned OFF, there is another "speaker pop",
and then when the radio connection is idled, about 4 seconds later, there is
another speaker pop....
SO - when any of the 4 handsets are being used, the base unit emits these
"speaker pops".

Lastly, the base unit ringer sounds like someone gargling....

Will probably contact Panasonic after the holdidays quiet down...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 2:03 pm
From: "P.Schuman"

just getting a couple more searchable Panasonic cordless phone model number
tags....
KX-TG6054B KX-TG6051B KX-TG6052B KX-TG6053B

"P.Schuman" <pschuman_NO_SPAM_ME@interserv.com> wrote in message
news:o6xcj.81440$Um6.50382@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> Just picked up a new Panasonic KX-TG6054B 5.8Ghz cordless phone system
> with 4 handsets (KX-TGA600) and the single answering base unit....
> KX-TG6051
>
> Wonder if there are any other more appropriate newsgroups for "cordless
> phones"
> ?
>
> It works great.... the feature I wanted was the ability to have Caller ID
> match up to an internal phone book entry, like on a cell phone.
> We noticed that more and more calls were coming from cell phones,
> and we just couldn't remember everyone's number as it appears on CID,
> and the "names" displayed were just generic "cellular" in most cases.
>
> Anyway - the system works great.... there are some minor issues,
> like when copying the phonebook entries to other handsets,
> you don't have to the option to walk thru all the other handsets at once,
> but must walk thru the entire keyboard process for each.
>
> Recently - (reason for posting)
> noticed something "weird" on the small base unit.
> When using any handset...
> the "speaker" on the base unit has a random spurt of raspy sound
> like when someone talks loud on the handset,
> and it is only for a split second (peak)
> then comes out on the base speaker.....
> It's random, and for just a split second....
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best prepaid or "Pay As You Go" cel plan for occasional user?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4dee5a0b0a1d2906?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 4:56 am
From: timeOday

Doc wrote:
> There are maybe half a dozen or fewer times a year when it might be
> convenient to have a cel phone, but I don't feel like tithing for a
> monthly fee for this little usage. Any opinions as to the best
> provider for a very occasional user?
>
> WalMart had something like 9 vendors on display, some of which seemed
> very pointedly aimed at the Hispanic market.
>
> Also wondering about issues like whether the given service is likely
> to be around for a while, how the service compares to other providers,
> if the phone itself is likely to work when I use it, etc. One of the
> complaints I keep seeing is customer service - activation being a
> hassle, reps somewhere in S. American who barely speak English.
>
> Thanks for all input.

For a dozen calls per year, I really think a payphone is your best bet.
Each call will be a ripoff, but I think you'll still come out ahead.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 12:41 pm
From: Dennis

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:57:57 -0500, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
wrote:

>I loved my frugal Tracfone for several years, until they changed service
>providers and the phone became essentially useless due to poor reception and
>dropped calls. I used online activation; it was kind of a pain but I didn't
>have to speak with any English-impaired people.

I just activated a new Tracfone for my wife a couple days ago. I had
to do it over the phone, because their website was having problems
when I tried to do it online (I have always activated online in the
past with no problem). I got a fellow with a hispanic accent. I had
a bit of trouble understanding him, mostly because of a noisy phone
connection, but he was patient and polite. We got through the
activation and transferring the old phone number to the new phone
without problems. Took about 20 minutes, including the initial hold
time.

I get great service on the west coast (carrier is Cingular/ATT), but I
was pretty disappointed in the coverage on a recent roadtrip through
the plains states.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 1:09 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

timeOday wrote:
> Doc wrote:
>> There are maybe half a dozen or fewer times a year when it might be
>> convenient to have a cel phone, but I don't feel like tithing for a
>> monthly fee for this little usage. Any opinions as to the best
>> provider for a very occasional user?
>>
>> WalMart had something like 9 vendors on display, some of which seemed
>> very pointedly aimed at the Hispanic market.
>>
>> Also wondering about issues like whether the given service is likely
>> to be around for a while, how the service compares to other providers,
>> if the phone itself is likely to work when I use it, etc. One of the
>> complaints I keep seeing is customer service - activation being a
>> hassle, reps somewhere in S. American who barely speak English.
>>
>> Thanks for all input.
>
> For a dozen calls per year, I really think a payphone is your best bet.
> Each call will be a ripoff, but I think you'll still come out ahead.

Unless you need the phone for incoming calls (e.g., you're traveling but
may get an emergency call). And assuming you can find a payphone.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 1:13 pm
From: tedkaz24@hotmail.com

On Dec 30, 6:56 am, timeOday <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
> Doc wrote:
> > There are maybe half a dozen or fewer times a year when it might be
> > convenient to have a cel phone, but I don't feel like tithing for a
> > monthly fee for this little usage. Any opinions as to the best
> > provider for a very occasional user?
>
> > WalMart had something like 9 vendors on display, some of which seemed
> > very pointedly aimed at the Hispanic market.
>
> > Also wondering about issues like whether the given service is likely
> > to be around for a while, how the service compares to other providers,
> > if the phone itself is likely to work when I use it, etc. One of the
> > complaints I keep seeing is customer service - activation being a
> > hassle, reps somewhere in S. American who barely speak English.
>
> > Thanks for all input.
>
> For a dozen calls per year, I really think a payphone is your best bet.
> Each call will be a ripoff, but I think you'll still come out ahead.

Virgin Mobile phones are $20 to $100 and a $20 "recharge" to your
account every 3 months. The money never expires and "web" browsing is
$5 per month/5 mb. They use sprint eecch.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 3:21 pm
From: "catalpa"

"Doc" <docsavage20@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39351e0e-6585-4187-9e0b-792ec57599f3@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> There are maybe half a dozen or fewer times a year when it might be
> convenient to have a cel phone, but I don't feel like tithing for a
> monthly fee for this little usage. Any opinions as to the best
> provider for a very occasional user?
>
> WalMart had something like 9 vendors on display, some of which seemed
> very pointedly aimed at the Hispanic market.
>
> Also wondering about issues like whether the given service is likely
> to be around for a while, how the service compares to other providers,
> if the phone itself is likely to work when I use it, etc. One of the
> complaints I keep seeing is customer service - activation being a
> hassle, reps somewhere in S. American who barely speak English.
>
> Thanks for all input.

Prepaid comparison at http://www.cellguru.net/prepaid_compare.htm .

Best deal is PagePlus cellular using the Verizon network. Buy a cheap
Verizon phone on Ebay, then buy a PagePlus activation on Ebay for $5.00 or
less and add $10.00 in airtime every 120 days to keep the phone active. The
activation was easy and last time I called customer service the rep was
bilingual. The difficult part is remembering to add time every 120 days so
as not to lose your accumulated minutes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap survival idea to stay warm?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b29f75b086954dfc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 9:31 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:27:19 -0500, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

>Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> You can not get a bumble bee to fly.
>>
>> Well, actually, both have been done for centuries.
>>
>
>
> Actually a good analogy.
>
> A bumble bee falls from the sky the moment it stops burning energy
>buzzing. Just as there is no glide path for a bumble bee there is little
>for an uninsulated house. It has a low thermal time constant and loses
>heat rapidly, hence you have to keep the heat going, or at least not
>leave it off long. Radiant heat sources, like those oil filled heaters,
>work better in such an environment.
>
> Jeff

True indeed.

Good analogy

Gunner

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 3:50 pm
From: Jeff

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:27:19 -0500, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> You can not get a bumble bee to fly.
>>>
>>> Well, actually, both have been done for centuries.
>>>
>>
>> Actually a good analogy.
>>
>> A bumble bee falls from the sky the moment it stops burning energy
>> buzzing. Just as there is no glide path for a bumble bee there is little
>> for an uninsulated house. It has a low thermal time constant and loses
>> heat rapidly, hence you have to keep the heat going, or at least not
>> leave it off long. Radiant heat sources, like those oil filled heaters,
>> work better in such an environment.
>>
>> Jeff
>
>
> True indeed.
>
> Good analogy

How's the ceiling to floor ducts working out?

Years ago I had a commercial product that had a rectangular duct
about 2" x 8" that ran from near the ceiling and was exhausted by a
squirrel cage fan at the bottom. In my house I'm seeing a couple
degrees difference from near the floor to near the ceiling, not worth
bothering with I think. I have one room with an uninsulated floor and
the temp gradiant is about the same there; although the room is overall
cooler.

I think hot ceilings may be due to the heater output temp, overall
hotter air tending to rise more than more mildly warmed or radiant
heating that indirectly heats the air. I don't know... I suppose air
infiltration plays a part in cooling leaky floors.

Jeff

>
> Gunner

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to rejuvenate dried out anti-static wipes?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ff0f280a4e123d1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 1:35 pm
From: Doc

I have a canister of these "nice'n clean" wipes I got from WalMart and
they sat for a while and are dried out. Contents listed as: "water,
isopropyl alcohol, glycol ethers and surfactants".

Should a solution of distilled water and 91% isopropyl alcohol work?
The label indicates "low alcohol formula is safe for most surfaces".
But then it also indicates "dries quickly", which I recall that it did
after wiping so I assume it had a fair amount of alcohol in it. Any
suggestions on proportions to approximate the original?

Thanks for all input.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 1:48 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Dec 30, 4:35 pm, Doc <docsavag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a canister of these "nice'n clean" wipes I got from WalMart and
> they sat for a while and are dried out. Contents listed as: "water,
> isopropyl alcohol, glycol ethers and surfactants".
>
> Should a solution of distilled water and 91% isopropyl alcohol work?
> The label indicates "low alcohol formula is safe for most surfaces".
> But then it also indicates "dries quickly", which I recall that it did
> after wiping so I assume it had a fair amount of alcohol in it. Any
> suggestions on proportions to approximate the original?
>
> Thanks for all input.

If they dried out the first time, why do you think they won't do the
same after your treatment?
The glycol is probably gone too and you are not replacing that item.
I just purchased some alcohol last week and was surprised at the
increased cost so don't waste too much testing a fix for something. I
suggest using a spray of rubbing alcohol or car window cleaner and
spraying the wipe before you use it. Nothing will be wasted and it
should be very effective.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 2:01 pm
From: Doc

On Dec 30, 4:48 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>
> If they dried out the first time, why do you think they won't do the
> same after your treatment?

I imagine they would eventually, but it's been probably 6 months to a
year since they were last used. I recall they stayed good for a while
before that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: is this really fair?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f61f17e0953e4fcf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 1:56 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Dec 30, 2:15 pm, So_B...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Dec 30, 8:05 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <n7edn3h4akltdlkbv1mq1tv05dnvb8c...@4ax.com>,
> > Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:56:55 -0800 (PST), Harry K
> > > <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >You apparently missed the "insufficient evidence" bit. It happens all
> > > >the time, even in outright murders by violence. If the PA doesn't
> > > >have a reasonable chance to prove the case, he won't prosecute.
>
> > > Brandy rear-ends another car on the freeway, forcing it into several
> > > other cars and killing the driver. Just how much more evidence does he
> > > need to get a conviction?
>
> > Gross negligence. Accidents are not a criminal issue if there is no DUI
> > or other criminal violation involved.
>
> Troll Shame Him...
> why do you not see it that way if careless smoking caused a fire?
> Now an accident is an accident and someone died...
> There seems to be a double standard there.
>
> OP' s reaseach before you talk to this troll.
> see linkshttp://tinyurl.com/yuzruwhttp://tinyurl.com/2ow4mm
>
> This asshole knows everything...
> or just lies that he does.
> 'xcept respect.
>
> Ply the boots if you find him in here.
>
> If you don't like it...
> So Boya

So you got a bug up your ass. Who the hell else cares?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2008 new year, 2008 Good news www.shoesserver-yhnetsotre.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b22fcc3bce3005b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 2:05 pm
From: Al Bundy

yhnetst...@gmail.com wrote:
> 2008 new year, 2008 Good news www.shoesserver-yhnetsotre.cn
>
>
>
> In order to greet the new year the arrival, company in new year grand
> preferential policy:
> 1. The shopping full 500USD customer, may enjoy the company to provide
> 90% discount the preferential benefit, primary proxy.
> 2. The shopping full 1000USD customer, may enjoy the company to
> provide 80% discount the preferential benefit, the company
> simultaneously provides the intermediate proxy website, for your
> country region this city minute agent.
> 3. The shopping full 2000USD customer, may enjoy the company to
> provide 70% discount the preferential benefit, the company
> simultaneously provides the high-level proxy website, for your country
> region this city general agent. This agent only provides a quota of
> people in this urban company.

I'm not sure what he said, but it looks like if you buy more, you get
less of a discount. What a country!
2007 was the year of the pig. That's why we got so many greedy new
garage enterprises advertising here. 2008 will be the year of the rat
so expect more cheesy ads.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yet another Best Buy consumer horror story -- woman tasered by cop.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fc4714b1a22ea0e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 2:17 pm
From: "Joel Koltner"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5tib11F1d4muoU1@mid.individual.net...
> That wasnt clear because that stupid woman refused to explain her activity
> when
> there was a real possibility that fraudulent card use was being attempted
> and she
> had attempted to flee the scene when the transaction could have been
> fraudulent.

One salient point you're leaving out here -- and it's not clear whether or not
the officer knew it at the time -- was that she "fled" the scene upon
receiving a phone call. My first reaction would have been that, oops, her
mind switched to dealing with the phone call and she simply FORGOT to take the
card/finish the transaction -- it's interesting that at Best Buy interprets
this behavior as "likelihood of fradulent credit card usage."

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 2:42 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Joel Koltner <zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> That wasnt clear because that stupid woman refused to explain her activity when
>> there was a real possibility that fraudulent card use was being attempted and she
>> had attempted to flee the scene when the transaction could have been fraudulent.

> One salient point you're leaving out here

Because it aint relevant to whether she should have just explained
the detail to the cop instead of hurling abuse at the cop and deservedly
getting tasered when she was warned REPEATEDLY that thats what
would happen if she didnt just calm down and explain what happened.

> -- and it's not clear whether or not the officer knew it at the time -- was that she "fled" the scene upon receiving a
> phone call. My first reaction would have been that, oops, her mind switched to dealing with the phone call and she
> simply FORGOT to take the card/finish the transaction -- it's interesting that at Best Buy interprets this behavior as
> "likelihood of fradulent credit card usage."

All completely irrelevant to why she deservedly got tasered.

She was welcome to politely explain that stuff to the cop to make it
clear that there was no fraudulent card activity involved and to just
prove that it was her card, so the use of it cant have been fraud.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to make fluros more friendly?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/de7a8d1aaed7aa13?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 2:56 pm
From: "Linda"

"Linda" <rego@email.com> wrote in message
news:47772445$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> We've just replaced some light fittings and on advice from a few people
> and things we've read decided to go with ones that take 11w compact
> fluros.
> It's all installed, and now looks great - until you turn the lights on and
> then the whole room looks cold and washed out. The fittings take 3 of the
> lights at once (kind of like spots) and it's still relatively dim in the
> room - which means we really couldn't go any lower wattage like the 7watt
> that is available but we're really disappointed in the appearance. We
> bought the bulbs from a light shop so in theory they are good quality, and
> were quite expensive, and they said you could get ones that were kind of
> blue tinted, or more natural - which these were in theory, but I can't
> imagine putting up with this lighting for 5 or more years while they
> continue to improve the technologies.
> Are there any tricks like painting the bulbs or anything like that to help
> filter out the harsh tones? (Don't laugh at me!!)
Thanks for your replies Don and Derald - looks like we're back to the light
shop today.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 3:30 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <13nfjk8crdc35d3@corp.supernews.com>, Derald wrote:

> CFL actually do produce less light than indicated on their labels,
>primarily, because the people who label them tend to stretch the truth.

I only sometimes find this to be true. I usually do not find this to be
true of GE, Sylvania, Philips or N:Vision, though non-optimum temperature
will dim these.

Daylight models tend to have slightly lower output in lumens than warmer
color ones of same wattage, but are usually rated with the same
"incandescent equivalent wattage".

In my experience, Lights of America and Maxlite have produced less light
than claimed. (However, I have bought only one Lights of America one
since 2002.) And in my experience, all dollar store stool specimens that
have light output claims fell short.

CFLs do fade a little when they age.

>Also, fluorescents are perceived as less "bright" than they are rated to
>be because they are "off" as much as they are "on".

Ever look at one with a photodiode (with a resistor and battery)
connected to an oscilloscope? Do you know the "lighting technology
geek" method f rolling your eyes while looking at one? Also, rated light
output is average and not peak.

> Now that engineers have raised the oscillating frequency of CFLs'
>power supplies high enough that the flickering and its accompanying
>noise is above most human beings' perception, many people can use them
>who found previous generations of fluorescent lamps intolerable.
>However, you've just struck another of the major objections to any
>fluorescent light source: Terrible color rendition.
> An object's perceived color is determined by the color of the light
>that it's reflecting in combination with the observer's memory of what
>color that object "should" be. Most of us have learned, through a
>lifetime of exposure, to accept and compensate for the color distortion
>produced by incandescents. However, fluorescents of any kind emit light
>in significantly more narrow spectra than incandescents and the color
>distortion is vastly more perceptible to many people. Because there are
>no labelling standards or generally accepted definitions, what is called
>"soft white" ranges from urine-yellow to gangrenous green, with the
>accompanying color distortion.

Usually "soft white" and "warm white" are 2700 K with a color rendering
index of 82.

> Unlike incandescents, neither the real nor the equivalent power
>rating of a CFL has any effect on its color; color is determined by the
>coating on the device's inner surface. You might try returning the ones
>you have and exchanging them for another brand because the light balance
>does vary across brands. You might also consider moving up in quality to
>a brand that actually indicates its color temperature on its label. Be
>aware of the inverse relationship between color temperature and color
>perception: Higher temperatures are perceived as "colder" (more blue) by
>human beings while lower temperatures are perceived as "warmer" (more
>yellow-orange-red). For most of the "day", daylight is blue; we perceive
>it as white because we're constructed that way.
> If you want to ensure (reasonably) "true" color rendition, you will
>have to buy a quality lamp with a high color temperature, labelled in
>degrees, Kelvin (°K).
> For example, "Nvision" (sold at Home Depot) offers a product
>(mis)labelled "daylight" that has a color temp of 5500 °K, noticeably
>chartreuse, but its resultant color distortion is far less marked than
>that of so-called "soft white" CFLS.

I have one. I find it a very slightly greenish-bluish white, a hair
more yellowish than typical overcast sky, and a hair more green-bluish
than the whitest shades of direct sunlight that I have experienced.

> GE's "energy smart" line (sold at Lowes) offers a product labelled
>"cool natural light" and properly called "daylight" with a color temp of
>6500°K, the color of the notorious "North light" daylight on a clear day
>between about 10:00AM-3:00PM, depending on latitude. After a great deal
>of comparison (I literally purchased samples of every product offered in
>every supermarket in Long Island South, FL, as well as at both Home
>Desperate and Lowe's and used them in my home for as long as I could
>bear them -- for some that was a matter of minutes), this product is my
>personal choice: Although, from outside looking in, it doesn't produce
>that "warm, welcoming, homey glow", it does render colors accurately and
>reading (for example) is, once again, a pleasure -- just like sitting by
>an open window.
> I paid $8.98 each for the 26W (100 watt-equivalent, 1600 lumens)
>and $6.98 each for the 15W (60 watt-equivalent, 900 lumens) units in
>June, 2007. They are "warranted" for five years, for whatever that may
>be worth, based on four hours' (continuous) use per day. Bear in mind
>that "short cycling", seriously reduces the life span of any lamp and
>so, at those prices, "economy" may not be among the benefits.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 3:52 pm
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Don Klipstein <don@manx.misty.com> wrote:

>... Do you know the "lighting technology geek" method f rolling your eyes
>while looking at one?

No. How does that work?

Nick

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 4:08 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <fl9b0p$2hb@acadia.ece.villanova.edu>, nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu
wrote:
>Don Klipstein <don@manx.misty.com> wrote:
>
>>... Do you know the "lighting technology geek" method of rolling your
>> eyes while looking at one?
>
>No. How does that work?

I don't know how many people actually do or know that one, but I have
heard enough to know that I am not the only one in the world.

I look at a lamp, then roll my eyes up and down, and I see the streak
traced in my vision by the lamp (sometimes even a bit of an afterimage of
this). I see the stroboscopic pattern (or lack thereof).

LED holiday lights generally go completely out between half-cycles.
Most have halfwave rectification and are off more than half the time.

Some incandescent dusk-to-dawn nightlights have diodes to dim them. I
see the 60 Hz variation in filament brightness and color in those.

"55V" HPS lamps go close to completyely out between half cycles. Higher
voltage higher wattage ones sometimes have enough thermal mass in their
vapor to keep glowing somewhat between half cycles. Metal halide lamps
usually also do, and higher wattage ones often have their stroboscopic
effect fairly mitigated by this. HPS and MH lamps can also have color
vary through the AC cycle - more bluish at the peaks and more orangish
away from peaks.

Cool white fluoros on magnetic ballasts show plenty of persistence in
the yellow-glowing component of their phosphor. Some other fluorescents
have phosphor persistence so short as to go completely out between
half-cycles - I think mainly some high color rendering index types. CFLs
usually show enough phosphor persistence, especially in a green-glowing
component, to have their stroboscopic effect mitigated a little to
somewhat. And I can tell magnetic-ballasted from electronic-ballasted
ones this way, since the electronic-ballasted ones have light output
fairly steady through the AC cycle.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Memory Foam Mattresses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e255a64d691bc4fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 3:10 pm
From: "OldKenGoat"

"The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:sCDdj.209$wo3.38@newsfe06.lga...
> Anybody bought one recently? What do you think of the ones that Costco
> sells?
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> -----------------------------------------
> "Not everyone can be above average so why
> shouldn't we be the ones to suck?"
> --Anonymous School Board Member

I bought a Serta 4" memory foam mattress on sale from Overstock a month ago.
It does run a bit warm, but in the NW winter it's OK for now. I'll probably
have to store it away during the summer. It is very comfortable and I do
seem to sleep better. However, my cat hates it! I can't tell if he dislikes
it because of the squishiness or the smell.
hth

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 4:07 pm
From: Petepenguin@webtv.net (P T)

About ten years ago I bought a foam mattress at a local furniture store.
There were several firmness grades available, it was not some cheap
thing, and I've been fairly satisfied with it.

How is "MEMORY" foam different?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Paying Down Debt...Working at Home
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76e65c908fd6d77e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 3:37 pm
From: maddy

Do you want to work at home to make money..there are a lot of scams
out there.... i am in debt 37K ...check out my website at
http://www.pay-down-debt.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Importance Notice !!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eb14b0131595a2ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 5:08 pm
From: "michalis1984@gmail.com"

ENGLISH
================================
Dear friends,

I would like to remind you our daily support to our member Michael.
Please keep visiting the following link once a day until 1/1/2008 to
help him. Thank you all !!

http://www.publicpet.gr/michalis1984/vote

Happy new year and good luck each of you at your personal life, work
and families!
================================

FRENCH
================================
Chers abonnes,

Je voudrais vous rappelez notre soutien journalier a notre membre
Michael. Continuez a visiter le lien suivant une fois par jour jusqu
au 1/1/2008. Merci a tous !!

http://www.publicpet.gr/michalis1984/vote

Bonne annee et bonne chance a chacun de vous dans votre vie
personnelle, votre travail et dans vos familles.
================================

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help - I need to get my credit card debt under control
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/072147bbeeb4a6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2007 5:13 pm
From: Snowbound

In article <9fmdnX-TS4nMtOranZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com>,
timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

> JL wrote:
> > Damn, making 10K/month and having to use plastic tells me your lifestyle
> > is way too lavish. At that income level, you should be able to pay in
> > cash for whatever you need. I suspect you live in a pricey real estate
> > area like the San Francisco Bay Area or San Diego or New York and have
> > one of those insane $4000/month mortgages.
>
>
> Housing is always expensive in markets where pay is good.

<snip>

I was going to disagree with this generalization when I suddenly
realized it was better for me to let others believe it.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Sunday, December 30, 2007

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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