Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 13 topics

Friday, December 21, 2007

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Debit card article in Reader's Digest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 11:35 am
From: "M.L."

>> I'd love to know any reason that someone would use a MC/Visa logo
>> debit card rather than an actual credit card, because I can't think
>> of any good reasons.

No possible risk to their credit status due to spending beyond one's
means.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 1:35 pm
From: George Grapman

M.L. wrote:
>>> I'd love to know any reason that someone would use a MC/Visa logo
>>> debit card rather than an actual credit card, because I can't think
>>> of any good reasons.
>
>
> No possible risk to their credit status due to spending beyond one's
> means.
>
Also useful to people with bad credit who can not get a regular card.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 5:16 pm
From: imascot

=?UTF-8?B?U01TIOaWr+iSguaWh+KAoiDlpI8=?=
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:476beee3$0$84174
$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:

> email.is.ignored@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> A lot of the discussion in this thread is about debit vs. credit
>> cards, but the real discussion should be about credit-enabled debit
>> cards. Your financial risk from a credit-enabled debit card is so
>> much greater than a normal ATM card. So if debit cards are the right
>> choice for you, by all means continue using them, just contact your
>> bank and get a debit card which *always* requires PIN entry.
>
> That really is the key point. Readers Digest should have distinguished
> between a PIN based ATM card, and debit card that can be used like a
> credit card with only a signature (or no signature in many cases). You
> want to avoid the latter at all costs, but the pin-based ATM card is
> pretty safe.

Banks have done a great job of not mentioning the existence of plain vanilla
PIN-based ATM cards, to the extent that many people, probably including the
RD author, do not even know that they are an option (USENET readers
excepted, of course).

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 5:19 pm
From: imascot

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in news:0lWaj.704$se5.697
@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:

> M.L. wrote:
>>>> I'd love to know any reason that someone would use a MC/Visa logo
>>>> debit card rather than an actual credit card, because I can't think
>>>> of any good reasons.
>>
>>
>> No possible risk to their credit status due to spending beyond one's
>> means.
>>
> Also useful to people with bad credit who can not get a regular card.

Coincidentally, there is a real life problem with a debit card just down the
article list here under "Do Not Buy From Circuit City"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More Selective reporting from Limbaugh
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/306db91f018962b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 11:46 am
From: jdoe

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:18:32 GMT, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:

> Opens the show by talking about the increase in consumer spending.
>Omits these details:
>
> Consumer confidence at its lowest in three years (when it goes up
>Limbaugh boasts about while ignoring the general downward trend, when it
>drops he ignores it).
>
> Retail sales dropped for the third straight week.
>
> Inflation exceeds the Feds "comfort level" for inflation.
do you mean that you expect him to report the BS propaganda that the
MSM is pushing versus the real facts outlets like the NY Times and the
major networks suppress?
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 12:31 pm
From: clams casino

George Grapman wrote:

Leads me to believe Rod Speed is really Rush.

Everyone knows today's stock market climb is all due to GW's 2002 tax cut..

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 1:07 pm
From: George Grapman

Sorry, wrong group. My New Years resolution is to check where I am
before posting. My punishment will consist of removing Rod Speed from my
kill file for 24 hours each time I fail to do that.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 1:31 pm
From: George Grapman

jdoe wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:18:32 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Opens the show by talking about the increase in consumer spending.
>> Omits these details:
>>
>> Consumer confidence at its lowest in three years (when it goes up
>> Limbaugh boasts about while ignoring the general downward trend, when it
>> drops he ignores it).
>>
>> Retail sales dropped for the third straight week.
>>
>> Inflation exceeds the Feds "comfort level" for inflation.
> do you mean that you expect him to report the BS propaganda that the
> MSM is pushing versus the real facts outlets like the NY Times and the
> major networks suppress?
> __________________________________________
> Never argue with an idiot.
> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Which "real facts " would that be? The same AP story that had the
increase in consumer spending also had the figures that I cited.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Will an oil-filled radiator save me money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6eb6f9a24be546e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 12:16 pm
From: "** Frank **"

"Joe" <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fcf54fe3-975b-44e5-ad3b-12942a8c4171@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> I'm running through around 132 gallons of oil per month in my 1300 sq
> ft Cape Cod house. At $3 per gallon that's $400 to heat my house! I've
> been reading about oil filled radiators and I read one person's acct
> that he was using it to heat a 600 sq foot area and it only cost him
> 10kwh a day. At my extremely high electricity rate of .22/kwh I would
> seemingly still be saving a ton to heat my house if I bought two of
> these heaters and ran them all day. ($66x2=$132.) Is that possible?
> What am I missing?

Shouldn't be too much of a problem to fine free firewood. A free standing or
fireplace insert with forced air would heat up 1,300sf area in a few hours.
I wonder if your system could (or if its legal) run on used engine oil? You
could go around and collect all the used engine oil, maybe they even pay you
to hall it away. We have people use old kitchen grease to run diesel cars.
You could have free electricity with a modified diesel generator set on used
kitchen grease, so go buy a few oil filled radiators.

Attic insulation would get the best bang for the dollar. I would use a heavy
sheet (like 6 mil) of clear plastic over the windows until you get some
funds for double or triple pane windows.

Hey you could forget the whole thing and move to sunny Southern California,
like San Diego, and enjoy the good weather all year long. Houses are much
cheaper now in California.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 5:13 pm
From: "Lou"

"Joe" <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5067ab38-704f-4252-a51e-136a07493642@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 21, 1:06 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you
> > >> prefer your home to be?
> >
> > > right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> > > socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
> >
> > > How well insulated is your home?
> > > It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> > > years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> > > thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
> > > somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> > > the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> > > stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> > > down on the residual heat circulation.
> > >> How's the air circulation?
> > > Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> > > 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> > > would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> > > downstairs to stay warm at night.
> >
> > Makes a lot more sense to do the bed better for that.
> >
> > > The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
> > >> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400,
> > >> so give it a try and see how it works out for you.
> > > $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the
> > > $40-$70 rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
> >
> > Makes a lot more sense to heat the bed with an electric pad etc.
>
> Yeah well, I have a couple of children that have a penchant for
> knocking their covers off in the middle of the night so I have to keep
> the heat in the low sixties in case.

No you don't - it's more likely that they're knocking the covers off because
they're too warm than it is that they'll freeze because they've knocked the
covers off in a cold bedroom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap wholesale discount sneakers,clothes...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c66005fb836491b6?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Guardian: Carbon myths
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/22b3fd65a2728a83?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 2:21 pm
From: Bill Rider

Anthony Matonak wrote:
> Bill Rider wrote:
>> Now I'm curious about my monitor. When I get a chance I'll measure
>> the watts dim and bright. One energy-saving design scheme for
>> handheld devices is to sense the ambient light and adjust the
>> backlight accordingly.
>>
>> This document says some LCD TVs allow an adjustment of of the
>> backlight, which can save 25%:
>>
>> http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prod_development/revisions/downloads/tv_vcr/Ecos_Presentation.pdf

>
>
> It would depend on the source of the light. Big LCD displays typically
> use cold cathode fluorescent lights that can't be dimmed. Small LCD,
> like cell phones and PDAs, use LED backlights. LED backlights have
> started to surface in some high end LCD monitors because they produce
> better colors.
>
> Anthony

I hadn't thought about it so I looked it up. This page says
cold-cathode fluorescents are ideal for dimming. It takes a ballast
that can be adjusted to skip pulses.
http://www.sailboatstuff.com/lt_cold_cathode_linear.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: buy cheap shoes ( www.shoes-ec.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0613407ee3d880e1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 2:59 pm
From: Al Bundy

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: So quiet in here. Everyone Chrismas shopping?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/14ff3a2698c21c95?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 3:08 pm
From: Dennis

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:32:05 -0500, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>Oh, stop it. If demand outpaces supply, then you will eventually run
>out, right? You have 100 trees and 50 get cut down. You can only
>replace the 50 that were cut down. These 50 will not be mature for
>years. I really do need someone to explain this to me in simple English.

Suppose it takes 8 years for a tree seedling to mature to a saleable
Christmas tree. Further, say you plan to sell 100 trees per season.
The first year you plant 100 seedlings (plus maybe some extra to
account for loss). The next year you plant the same number, repeating
this each successive year. In the eighth year, you harvest the first
100 trees and plant new trees to replace them. In the ninth year, you
harvest and replace the next 100 to mature, and so on. As long as you
keep this up, there will always be about 100 mature trees to harvest
each Christmas.

Of course, the numbers can be adjusted as necessary each year.

BTW, most of the smaller woodlot operations that I am familiar with
(including mine) do it for tax purposes. Most of the property taxes
on the land in production are deferred until the sale of the wood
product (Christmas trees, timber, firewood, etc.). In the case of a
timber woodlot like mine, that can be 15-20 years until the first
commercial thinning harvest.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 4:15 pm
From: Marsha

Dennis wrote:
> Suppose it takes 8 years for a tree seedling to mature to a saleable
> Christmas tree. Further, say you plan to sell 100 trees per season.
> The first year you plant 100 seedlings (plus maybe some extra to
> account for loss). The next year you plant the same number, repeating
> this each successive year. In the eighth year, you harvest the first
> 100 trees and plant new trees to replace them. In the ninth year, you
> harvest and replace the next 100 to mature, and so on. As long as you
> keep this up, there will always be about 100 mature trees to harvest
> each Christmas.
>
> Of course, the numbers can be adjusted as necessary each year.
>
> BTW, most of the smaller woodlot operations that I am familiar with
> (including mine) do it for tax purposes. Most of the property taxes
> on the land in production are deferred until the sale of the wood
> product (Christmas trees, timber, firewood, etc.). In the case of a
> timber woodlot like mine, that can be 15-20 years until the first
> commercial thinning harvest.
>
>
> Dennis (evil)
> --
> The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
> consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

Okay, I get it now. This was just one of those things that needed an
explanation or example different than what I was thinking. Enjoy your tree!

Marsha/Ohio

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 4:17 pm
From: Marsha

clams casino wrote:
> Marsha wrote:
>>
>> I'll admit my thinking processes are not normal, but if more people
>> want live trees than what are planted, won't the demand eventually
>> exceed supply? For example, if you have a tree farm with 100 trees
>> and 50 people take trees, you re-plant 50 trees. The next year, you
>> only have 50 trees to offer because it's going to take years for your
>> newly-planted trees to develop, but 50 or more people want your trees,
>> well you eventually won't have any trees ready. I'm really trying to
>> understand this processs, honestly.
>>
>> Marsha/Ohio
>>
>
> Hint - DON'T attempt to start any businesses.

I'm a much better indian than a chief.

Marsha/Ohio

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 4:30 pm
From: Marsha

barbie gee wrote:
>> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
>>> I'll admit my thinking processes are not normal, but if more people want
>>> live trees than what are planted, won't the demand eventually exceed
>>> supply?
>>
>>
>> Yes, and if fewer people want live trees than what are planted, the
>> supply
>> will exceed the demand. I recall more than once driving by tree farms
>> here
>> in the Midwest where there are fields and fields full of trees that have
>> obviously matured past the point of being practical to harvest. I
>> think it's
>> a good bet they were not harvested in order to avoid glutting the
>> market and
>> driving the price down.
>
>
> and, I've yet to see a tree lot "sell out", and I live in a major
> metropolis, not a podunk with a limited market. Maybe those last trees
> are rejects, but they remain unsold, whatever the reason.
>
> Marsha's thinking is painfully linear. There are the different
> varieties of trees, trees of different sizes (meaning ages) and so
> forth. There is NOT simple cut one-replace one system going on here.

Painfully linear? That hurts :-) It was just a simple "I don't quite
understand business" statement. Obviously I don't belong to Mensa in
that department.

Marsha/Ohio

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 4:34 pm
From: Marsha

Derald wrote:

> Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>>I don't mean to offend anyone, but to
>>cut down a live tree and then discard it when you're done just does not
>>make sense to me, even if it is from a "tree farm".
>
> Funny, that's exactly how some folks feel about commercially grown
> flowers.

Flowers that die and get thrown away are not a practical gift, IMO. It
makes more sense to get something that can be re-planted, so you can
enjoy it for years.

Marsha/Ohio

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 5:20 pm
From: "Lou"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:fkhm3f$qd9$1@news.datemas.de...
> Derald wrote:
>
> > Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
> >>I don't mean to offend anyone, but to
> >>cut down a live tree and then discard it when you're done just does not
> >>make sense to me, even if it is from a "tree farm".
> >
> > Funny, that's exactly how some folks feel about commercially grown
> > flowers.
>
> Flowers that die and get thrown away are not a practical gift, IMO. It
> makes more sense to get something that can be re-planted, so you can
> enjoy it for years.

Cut flowers aren't meant to be practical. They're meant to be pretty.
Sometimes they're meant to show that the giver is well enough off that every
decision doesn't have to be ruled by strict practicality. Even when the
whatever could be replanted, that doesn't necessarily mean that you could
enjoy flowers in the middle of winter, a time when some people might
appreciate them the most. And oh yeah, a good many flowers are annuals, and
even if replanted, wouldn't last beyond one season anyway.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed, how is gold doing in your neck of the woods?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2ad60336cac92ae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 3:13 pm
From: Dennis

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:06:50 -0800 (PST), Quality_is_job_one
<kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I think we should all start collecting copper. Not as valuable per ounce
>as gold, but has a huge market for a lot of folks and used in
>electrical and plumbing and cookware.

Not to mention ammunition.

Dennis (evil)
--
What government gives, it must first take away.

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TOPIC: Discount Cheap Wholesale Jordan 1-22 Shoes, Jordan Mix, Kid Jordan
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/877cf890999019c5?hl=en
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TOPIC: Pond's vs Rite Aid
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/25ec786d4a77b5a5?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 4:48 pm
From: James

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TOPIC: Luxury IWC Replica Watches
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IWC Portofino Watches Retail : http://www.21replicawatch.com/IWC_Replica_Watches.html
IWC Portofino Watches Wholelsale : http://www.wholesale-watches.org/iwc-portofino-watches.html

IWC Portuguese Watches Retail : http://www.21replicawatch.com/IWC_Replica_Watches.html
IWC Portuguese Watches Wholelsale : http://www.wholesale-watches.org/iwc-portuguese-watches.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fashion Emporio Armani Replica Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9a25f69ab229816b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 5:37 pm
From: Wholesale Replica watches

Fashion Emporio Armani Replica Watches

http://www.21replicawatch.com specialize in top quality Replica
watches, Fake Watches and so on. brands like Rolex, Audemars Piguet,
Chanel, IWC Watches,TAG Heuer, Swiss watch....

Emporio Armani Replica Watches Retail At :
http://www.21replicawatch.com/Emporio_Armani_Replica_Watches.html

Emporio Armani Replica Watches Wholelsale At :
http://www.wholesale-watches.org/emporio-armani-watches.html

Since 2000 We have done online Emporio Armani Replica Watches busienss
from now on and we have many cusotmers from USA, Europe,India and
other countries. Buying Emporio Armani Replica Watches will save you
lots of money and get same as 100% original watches from our high
quality and lowest price of luxury Emporio Armani Replica Watches. If
you are watches wholesalers,you could order from our online wholesale
watches and if you are personal watch wearing you may go to our online
shop to chose watch you like including luxury,fashion,classical
Emporio Armani Replica Watches.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Luxury Swiss Replica Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/48bddffce69523d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 5:37 pm
From: Wholesale Replica watches

Luxury Swiss Replica Watches

http://www.21replicawatch.com specialize in top quality Replica
watches, Fake Watches and so on. brands like Rolex, Audemars Piguet,
Chanel, IWC Watches,TAG Heuer, Swiss watch....

Swiss Replica Watches Retail At : http://www.21replicawatch.com/Swiss_Replica_Watches.html

Swiss Replica Watches Wholelsale At : http://www.wholesale-watches.org/swiss-watches.html

Since 2000 We have done online Swiss Replica Watches busienss from now
on and we have many cusotmers from USA, Europe,India and other
countries. Buying Swiss Replica Watches will save you lots of money
and get same as 100% original watches from our high quality and lowest
price of luxury Swiss Replica Watches. If you are watches
wholesalers,you could order from our online wholesale watches and if
you are personal watch wearing you may go to our online shop to chose
watch you like including luxury,fashion,classical Swiss Replica
Watches.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Friday, December 21, 2007

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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