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Today's topics:
* Quick basic advice on a dripping gas 40-gal hot-water heater - 13 messages,
5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e565eaf98e0e70b6?hl=en
* Was my home purchase in 2006 frugal? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9d0f58de213b13b6?hl=en
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TOPIC: Quick basic advice on a dripping gas 40-gal hot-water heater
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e565eaf98e0e70b6?hl=en
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== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 7:25 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:30:25 -0500, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net>
wrote:
>Vic Smith wrote:
>> BTW, I found that the Impala never came with a 3.1.
>> It's a 3.4 or 3.8.
>>
>> --Vic
>
>Duh, brain fart on my part. It is indeed a 3.4, which is a 2.8/3.1
>based engine. Same basic engine, but larger displacement.
>
I was thinking about an Impala as my next used car, but have to check
out the 3.4 first. Might go for a Malibu which I can get with a 3.1.
In 2005 I rented a Malibu with 2.2 for a Florida trip and got 34mpg
highway. Seemed less thirsty in the city than a six, and had plenty
of power for me. I was surprised when I checked the oil before the
trip, and found it was a 2.2. A lot different than the 2.2 I have in
the '90 Corsica. Much quieter and more powerful.
--Vic
== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 8:16 pm
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"
<hallerb@aol.com> wrote in message
> well everyone knew the old tests werent valid yet it took many years
> to get them changed
Valid in the manner they were tested. A real auto enthusiast knew they were
not real life accurate but they were consistent. If Brand A said 25 mpg and
brand B was rated at 30 mpg, you knew brand A was a realistic 21 mpg and the
other was a realistic 25. The trouble comes from the people that actually
believed the numbers and were disappointed when they could not achieve them.
A for getting them changed, it was a lose/win situation. Marketing would
lose because they could not brag about the high mileage cars they sold, but
the dealer would have to win with fewer complaints about not getting what
the sticker said they'd get.
== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 8:18 pm
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"
<hallerb@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9ea4adfd-ef1a-49a7-ae80-a970f91d3c89@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> on hot water tanks, in pennsylvania theres no sales tax on a installed
> tank, but 7% if you take home and install yourself.
>
> $28 on a 400 buck tank. that taken off install price can make doing it
> yourself not worth the effort.
>
> sales tax has lots of wierd rules
But the state got their tax from the installer when he bought it to resell
to you.
>
== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 8:37 pm
From: "hallerb@aol.com"
On Feb 15, 11:18�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> <hall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9ea4adfd-ef1a-49a7-ae80-a970f91d3c89@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > on hot water tanks, in pennsylvania theres no sales tax on a installed
> > tank, but 7% if you take home and install yourself.
>
> > $28 on a 400 buck tank. that taken off install price can make doing it
> > yourself not worth the effort.
>
> > sales tax has lots of wierd rules
>
> But the state got their tax from the installer when he bought it to resell
> to you.
no when a business buys something for resale theres no sales tax,
in pennsylvania theres no tax on clothes, cold food no tax, hot food
taxable......
== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:04 pm
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"
<hallerb@aol.com> wrote in message
> to you.
> no when a business buys something for resale theres no sales tax,
Not true. I had a business in PA and when I bought material to install it, I
had to pay the tax. I did not have to charge the customer tax on either the
merchandise or my labor.
In my other business, I was a reseller and charged the tax I would then
file a tax exemption and not pay to my supplier, but I had to collect and
forward the tax to the state.
If you look at the tax exemption form, certain items are exempt, such as
material used in manufacturing. Office supplies are taxable, as are
computers, etc. If sales tax is not due, use tax is. Businesses are
audited on a regular basis. As a consumer, you may avoid the tax on mail
order buys, but a business will be caught faster than the home consumer.
PA Form 1220 spells out the exemptions. Manufacturing, mining, farming,
shipbuilding, and specificaly points out no exemption for property used in
contructing, repairing, remodeling.
> in pennsylvania theres no tax on clothes, cold food no tax, hot food
> taxable......
The differentiantion is not hot or cold, it is ingredient versus prepared
foods, be they hot or cold. That cold sandwich is still taxable.
== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:36 pm
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:17:11 -0800 (PST), 58plumbers@gmail.com wrote:
> What is this "magic" number of 41,045 BTU?
I think it's the assumed amount of BTUs an "average" household uses in a
day.
I'm sure there are math majors out there in the crowd who could tell us if
that assumption is true given the formulas previously provided.
Sears 33154 (marketed as Kenmore but made by AO Smith) FHR=97 EF=0.63
(41,045 btu/0.63)($1.21106/therm * 1 therm/100,000 btu) x 365 = $288/year
CHOICE B:
Home Depot 183-717 (marketed as GE but made by Rheem) FHR=80 EF=0.58
(41,045 btu/0.58)($1.21106/therm * 1 therm/100,000 btu) x 365 = $313/year
Are any mathematicians out there who can tell us the units on the 41,045?
== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:45 pm
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:33:41 GMT, Bob Shuman wrote:
> If you pay someone to install, then warranty may not be as important,
I've learned that I agree with you.
The warranty is for the fire-and-forget type of homeowner.
The one who doesn't flush twice yearly, who doesn't add the second anode,
who doesn't replace the anode after a few years, who doesn't add the ball
valve, etc.
Even then, the owner with the warranty has to bring the soaking wet heater
in the back of their car in to the manufacturer after their 1-year is up on
their supposed 12-year warranty - or else pay as much for the plumber to
visit ($400) as the heater cost in the first place ($400) to obtain the
'free' heater.
Some deal, that 12-year warranty!
Or am I reading it wrong?
== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:49 pm
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:28:41 -0800 (PST), 58plumbers@gmail.com wrote:
> What is this "magic" number 41.045 anyway?
I'm guessing it's the number of BTUs used in a day for the average
household.
(41,045 btu/0.63)($1.21106/therm * 1 therm/100,000 btu) x 365 = $288/year
If my assumption is correct, you can better estimate YOUR usage simply by
using the number of BTUs you normally use in a day.
Does that work out?
That is, do most people use up about 41,045 BTUs a day on their water
heater?
== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:50 pm
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:17:48 -0600, jakdedert wrote:
> A cost that nobody seems to have factored in, is removal and disposal of
> the old water heater.
Home depot hauls away the old water heater as part of the cost of the
installation.
== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:52 pm
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:35 -0600, Bob Shuman wrote:
> I already posted my thoughts on warranty as well in a previous reply. The
> bottom line here is you certainly know more than enough to make an informed
> choice.
Hi Bob,
My husband returns tomorrow.
I'll give him all your information and then tell him what choice to make!
Donna
== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:56 pm
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:55:22 -0800 (PST), hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> sales tax has lots of wierd rules
Home depot told me there was sales tax on everything except the permit.
They tax the heater at 8.75%, they tax the $400 service at the same rate so
just the tax is about $70 USD (assuming a $400 heater + $400 service).
Given the permit is a tax of its own kind, I'm kind'a surprised they don't
tax the tax out here.
== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:57 pm
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:37:20 -0800 (PST), hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> in pennsylvania theres no tax on clothes, cold food no tax, hot food
> taxable......
In California, the only thing they don't tax is death and taxes.
== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 10:59 pm
From: jakdedert
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:17:48 -0600, jakdedert wrote:
>> A cost that nobody seems to have factored in, is removal and disposal of
>> the old water heater.
>
> Home depot hauls away the old water heater as part of the cost of the
> installation.
I figured that. I was referring to the uncounted costs of doing it oneself.
jak
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TOPIC: Was my home purchase in 2006 frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9d0f58de213b13b6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 8:38 pm
From: Ron Peterson
On Feb 15, 7:59 pm, "Lou" <lpogodajr292...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Ron Peterson" <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in message
> The rule of thumb is that your house should rent for 1% of its
> purchase price.
> per day? per week? per month? per . . .
Per month, of course. So, if you can rent something for $2,000 per
month, it isn't a good idea to buy it for $400,000.
--
Ron
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