Frugal Living: 19 new messages in 9 topics

Sunday, June 29, 2008

19 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hidden Benefits of Being Messy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c7aae62308efb9ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 12:36 pm
From: Bernardo Gui

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:49:13 -0700 (PDT), Ablang <ron916@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hidden Benefits of Being Messy
>
>David H. Freedman

I don't buy it. I live alone and go through cycles of
messy-during-the-week and cleanup-on-Friday-afternoon. It is just a
matter of a busy work schedule. I can generally keep the place clean
from Saturday until Monday night, and then things start getting out of
control. Thus, the Friday afternoon cleaning and organizing sessions.

Having a cleaner house does not just make me feel better. It motivates
me to get other things done that I might otherwise delay.With me,
there is a connection between a well-organized house and doing other
things that make my life more enjoyable.

After my office gets organized, I tend to pay more attention to my
budget and financial goals. When my kitchen is clean, I tend to cook
healthy food at home instead of going out and wasting money. When my
garage is clean and organized, I spend more time taking care of my
vehicles and enjoying my hobbies.

The plain truth of the matter is that a messy home takes the wind out
of my sails, so I keep fighting disorganization in order to keep my
life going in the desired direction. That might be odd, but I do
better than some people I know.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: McCain: immigration 'top priority'
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d91cef8b52148bf0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 12:44 pm
From: billimmelman@yahoo.com

On Jun 28, 10:55 am, "johnny@." <johnny@.> wrote:
> Posted June 28, 2008 11:34 AM
> by Mike Dorning
>
> John McCain declared today that comprehensive immigration reform that
> includes a pathway to citizenship for the nation's estimated 12 million
> illegal aliens would be his "top priority" as president.
>
> "It will be my top priority yesterday, today and tomorrow," McCain
> declared at a forum this morning before the National Association of
> Latino Elected Officials.
>
> http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/06/mccain_imm...

Just an old bum. Immigration represents the greatest of all threats to
America.
Population growth causing environmental degredation; energy
consumption, and social
chaos.

bill

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:01 pm
From: clouddreamer

billimmelman@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jun 28, 10:55 am, "johnny@." <johnny@.> wrote:
>> Posted June 28, 2008 11:34 AM
>> by Mike Dorning
>>
>> John McCain declared today that comprehensive immigration reform that
>> includes a pathway to citizenship for the nation's estimated 12 million
>> illegal aliens would be his "top priority" as president.
>>
>> "It will be my top priority yesterday, today and tomorrow," McCain
>> declared at a forum this morning before the National Association of
>> Latino Elected Officials.
>>
>> http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/06/mccain_imm...
>
> Just an old bum. Immigration represents the greatest of all threats to
> America.
> Population growth causing environmental degredation; energy
> consumption, and social
> chaos.

So, I guess if that is such a problem, Americans will stop having babies.

We must change the way we live,
or the climate will do it for us.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:23 pm
From: "."

On Jun 28, 1:01�pm, clouddreamer <Global_warm...@is.real.n0w> wrote:

> So, I guess if that is such a problem, Americans will stop having babies.

Real Americans have stopped having enough babies to replace
themselves.

My great great great grandfather sired 12 children.

My great great grandfather sired 10 children.

My great grandfather sired 6 children.

My grandfather sired 5 children.

My father sired 2 children.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:42 pm
From: clams_casino

. wrote:

>On Jun 28, 1:01�pm, clouddreamer <Global_warm...@is.real.n0w> wrote:
>
>
>
>>So, I guess if that is such a problem, Americans will stop having babies.
>>
>>
>
>Real Americans have stopped having enough babies to replace
>themselves.
>
>My great great great grandfather sired 12 children.
>
>My great great grandfather sired 10 children.
>
>My great grandfather sired 6 children.
>
>My grandfather sired 5 children.
>
>My father sired 2 children.
>
>

Have you also noticed that each generation is also growing taller?

It has been predicted that the world will end with just one really tall
giant.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:48 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

billimmelman@yahoo.com wrote
> johnny@. <johnny@.> wrote

>> by Mike Dorning

>> John McCain declared today that comprehensive immigration reform
>> that includes a pathway to citizenship for the nation's estimated 12
>> million illegal aliens would be his "top priority" as president.

>> "It will be my top priority yesterday, today and tomorrow,"
>> McCain declared at a forum this morning before the National
>> Association of Latino Elected Officials.

>> http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/06/mccain_imm...

> Just an old bum. Immigration represents the greatest of all threats to America.

> Population growth causing environmental degredation; energy consumption, and social chaos.

Do the decent thing and set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Target unit pricing - Here's the real point
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2a1db67120ad9cd3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:00 pm
From: sarge137

On Jun 27, 9:25 pm, Tim Smith <reply_in_gr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> In article
> <a1919ffc-ab39-49d0-94cb-d1a9fb89b...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> sarge137 <rbooth9...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Absolutely right! But, another example of a feel good law with no
> > real intention of enforcement. Take a look at some of the discussions
> > of the National Do Not Call Registry you can find in the groups.
>
> The DNC registry seems to have worked pretty well for me. When it went
> into effect, the number of sales calls I received went WAY down. Now
> the only unsolicited calls I receive are:
>
> 1. Politicians.
>
> 2. Charities.
>
> 3. DirectTV. I was a subscriber. I was happy with their service, but
> switched to Comcast because I was switching from DSL to cable for
> internet (I was NOT happy with Sprint, my DSL provider--about once every
> 3 months, the latency to the gateway would jump to 3000 ms, and it would
> take several days to get them to admit it was their problem and fix it)
> (And yes, I could prove it was their problem). And since the only
> reason I had Sprint for phone service was to get their DSL, I switched
> that to Comcast, too. By switching TV, I could get a good deal on the
> bundle, and I was curious to try HDTV (my view of the DirectTV HDTV
> satellite was blocked). So, they are allowed to try to call me--and
> they might even succeed in getting me back, as Comcast's DVR is really
> pissing me off now! :-)
>
> 4. Wrong numbers. Mostly collection agencies looking for people who had
> my number long before me, or people who had my address long before me.
>
> So I'd have to say DNC has been very successful.
>
> --
> --Tim Smith

Yes, Tim. My experience with the DNC is similar to yours.

The point I was making though, was that like the DNC, the unit pricing
requirement was created by the feds, who do absolutely nothing about
enforcement. They leave it to local authorities. Response varies
widely depending on where you live.

There are several cases in the FTC web site about serious sanctions
against major national corporations for violating the DNC. But these
were carefully hand picked cases with an almost absolute certainty of
success. Local businesses continue to violate the DNC openly and
blatantly across the country. Just try to get the regional FTC office
to do anything about it. How well your local authorities respond
depends on where you live - most can't or won't take action.

This unit pricing fiasco is the same. The FTC made the monster, but
won't do anything; and most local authorities don't care.

Without even getting into the right or wrong of laws like the DNC
Registry or unit pricing, if they're not going to ensure compliance
they ought to stop wasting time passing the laws.

Regards,
Sarge

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:47 pm
From: clams_casino

clams_casino wrote:

> Stan Brown wrote:
>
>> Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:58:20 GMT from Doug Miller <spambait@milmac.com>:
>>
>>
>>> In article <MPG.22cd4053570a927598b6c4@news.individual.net>, Stan
>>> Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Someone else said "don't use paper, use cloth". I agree in
>>>> principle, but in 40+ years I've never found a cloth towel that
>>>> does anywhere near as good a job of drying as paper. I'm willing to
>>>> try something new if it really works. Anyone have any practical
>>>> suggestions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Microfiber cloths work far better than standard terrycloth towels.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I've never heard of microfiber cloths. Are they a department-store
>> item (e.g. Target), or are we talking specialty stores (B&M and
>> Internet)?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Microfibers are typically synthetic fibers which are typically
> hydrophobic (do not absorb water).
>
> To my knowledge, cotton (best for absorbing water) is not available as
> a "microfiber".

Learned something today. While micro fibers are typically a mix of
very thin nylon and polyester fibers (both being hydrophobic), when
blended with cotton, the result can be a fabric which does absorb much
more than 100% cotton. The very small micro fibers separate the cotton
fibers, allowing for more active surface area & thus improved water
absorption. The hydrophobic polyetser / nylon portion helps with
cleaning by attracting dirt, etc, better than cotton (or larger fibers).

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 2:10 pm
From: clams_casino

clams_casino wrote:

>>>
>>
>> Microfibers are typically synthetic fibers which are typically
>> hydrophobic (do not absorb water).
>>
>> To my knowledge, cotton (best for absorbing water) is not available
>> as a "microfiber".
>
>
>
> Learned something today. While micro fibers are typically a mix of
> very thin nylon and polyester fibers (both being hydrophobic), when
> blended with cotton, the result can be a fabric which does absorb
> much more than 100% cotton. The very small micro fibers separate the
> cotton fibers, allowing for more active surface area & thus improved
> water absorption. The hydrophobic polyetser / nylon portion helps
> with cleaning by attracting dirt, etc, better than cotton (or larger
> fibers).

Spoke way too soon (got hung up on some articles with a search for
cotton microfibers. When expanding the search, it became evident that
polyester /nylon / cotton blends are actually an exception (with some
claimed improvements), but the microfiber cloths found today are
primarily just (very fine denier) polyester and modified nylon blends
where the nylon portion is modified to be water absorbing. .
Interesting stuff. Quite amazing properties.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 5:06 pm
From: "Lou"

"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.22d001326708406f98b6d4@news.individual.net...
> Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:39:48 GMT from Lou <lpogoda@verizon.net>:
> > There was an assortment of sizes that were aerosol cans, and the
> > unit price was given per ounce. ... The unit price for the pump
> > sprayer was given in pounds. Again, easy enough to figure out what
> > was the most economical pump sprayer. But impossible to tell if the
> > pressurized can or the pump spray was the most better buy.
>
> Well, if you know the best pump sprayer's unit price and the best
> aerosol's unit price, multiply the latter by 16 and compare to the
> former to find which is "most better". While I agree with you that it
> would be better if both were in ounces, it's hardly "impossible" to
> compare them, just less convenient.

As I said, this was years ago. Before there were any such things as cell
phones, let alone cell phones with calcualtors. There were hand-held
calculators, but they weren't the inexpensive giveaways they are today, they
cost a noticeable amount of money and I didn't have one. In principle
you're correct - it's possible to do the arithmetic by hand and come up with
the answer. What I meant, and what I thought was evident from the context,
was that it was impossible to tell from the unit price tags which was the
better buy.

By the way, I don't see the logic of multiplying by 16. The stuff priced
priced per ounce was in fluid ounces, a measure of volume, not one-sixteenth
of a pound, a measure of weight. If this stuff was plain water, you'd
multiply by 0.0652 to convert ounces to pounds. While I'm reasonably decent
at doing arithmetic in my head, that one's beyond my ability, not to mention
that I don't happen to know conversion factors like this, I have to look
them up. And of course, the conversion factor for any particular brand of
furniture polish is going to be different from the factor for water.

> > > Up to that point, I had thought that the point of unit pricing was
> > to make that comparison possible - after all, what I was buying was
> > furniture polish, and it was the same product in each container.
>
> They may or may not have been the same product. Something formulated
> to be dispensed through a pump may have different viscosity from
> something formulated for an aerosol spray.

Functionally, they were the same product - you sprayed it on your wood
furniture and wiped it with a soft cloth. I don't know the chemical
composition of any furniture polish, but presumably they're not all
identical - there's some difference in composition between Pledge and
Endust, and they're not the same product. But that's not an excuse to unit
price them in different units, and in fact all the aerosol cans of furniture
polish were unit priced in ounces.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 10:48 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <kSu9k.2594$oY2.2237@newsfe21.lga>, clams_casino wrote in part:
>Stan Brown wrote:
>
>>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:24:58 -0400 from Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net>:
>>
>>>Besides if frugality is your main concern, with water, your best bet is
>>>to drink tap water and filter it if necessary. The cost of Brita water
>>>filter (and a few filters) is a lot cheaper then bottled water on a per
>>>gallon basis.
>>
>>Precisely! Get a reusable water bottle (about $1 at Wal-mart) and
>>fill it with tap water or filtered water if necessary. It'a much
>>cheaper, it's better for the environment, and it reduces our
>>dependence on foreign oil as well as our garbage problem.
>>
>>(I don't remember the figures, but the billions of one-use plastic
>>water bottles take a horrendous amount of oil to manufacture.
>
>US production is about 5B lbs/yr for bottles, but the paraxylene used in
>its production is a minor byproduct in the cracking of oil. If all the
>paraxylene was eliminated, there would be an insignificant reduction in
>the US consumption of oil.

5B pounds per year sounds to me like about .03% of worldwide consumption
of all fossil fuels.
Keep in mind that most plastic beverage bottles are made of polyethylene
terephthalate or polyethylene, and ethylene is obtained more from natural
gas - something else that USA imports and is experiencing
hyperinflationary price increases of.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saving at the Farmer's Market
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7d07f732fa29f8b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:34 pm
From: aldralee@gmail.com

Certified Farmer's Markets require that the folks who grow the food
are represented at the market. So, if you see Dole items, etc. (or the
"mass produced" items to which you refer), you're not at a legitimate
farmer's market. Most permanent "farmer's markets" (e.g., Fairfax FM
in Los Angeles) are nothing more than multiple vendors selling stuff
from god knows where. Long story short--find certified markets.

My blog gives several tips on how to save at (certified) farmer's
markets. Since I started eating locally-grown, sustainably produced
foods, my grocery budget has been reduced by nearly half. It's a myth
that eating well costs more. Just have to be smart about it.

Thanks for highlighting my blog! Hope it helps.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 2:12 pm
From: sarge137

On Jun 28, 2:34 pm, aldra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Certified Farmer's Markets require that the folks who grow the food
> are represented at the market. So, if you see Dole items, etc. (or the
> "mass produced" items to which you refer), you're not at a legitimate
> farmer's market. Most permanent "farmer's markets" (e.g., Fairfax FM
> in Los Angeles) are nothing more than multiple vendors selling stuff
> from god knows where. Long story short--find certified markets.
>
> My blog gives several tips on how to save at (certified) farmer's
> markets. Since I started eating locally-grown, sustainably produced
> foods, my grocery budget has been reduced by nearly half. It's a myth
> that eating well costs more. Just have to be smart about it.
>
> Thanks for highlighting my blog! Hope it helps.

Certified? Who does the certification and what are the standards?
I'll bet there's no "certification" in most of the 49 states outside
of California, there's certainly none where I live.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 2:42 pm
From: aldralee@gmail.com

> Certified? Who does the certification and what are the standards?
> I'll bet there's no "certification" in most of the 49 states outside
> of California, there's certainly none where I live.

Well, you could bet--or investigate for yourself. If you find you have
no certification process and would like to ensure that it exists so
mass produced crap produce from Peru isn't being sold at a pseudo-
farmer's market, perhaps you could start a new movement in your state?
Might even get a day named after you! However, what I've found is that
lots of folks simply don't know the difference or that certification
exists. And I'm also sure that some states, particularly those with
low population density, don't have such programs currently in place.
Great opportunity for citizen action.

I've lived in four different states, each of which had certification
processes for small farmers to sell their wares locally. There has yet
to be a national standard set for certification requirements, as
governing a local food system by a federal structure doesn't make much
sense. Granted, California leads the way in this sort of market, but
since CA created the certification process back in 1977 (developed by
the CA dept. of agriculture), I find it hard to believe that most
other states have not followed suit by now. Particularly given the
growing awareness of food miles, production techniques, and the fact
that everywhere I've lived has had both genuine farmer's markets and
b.s. markets (of course that last bit is just anecdotal). From what I
know, state ag. departments develop certification standards based on
small farmer and consumer demands.

Anyhoo, I certainly hope certified markets show up in your neck of the
woods soon. Nothing is more irritating than overpriced crap produce
flown in from a gazillion miles away trying to pass itself as farmer
Joe's pickings.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many here own food freezer?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/79858a8bd8f90308?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 1:44 pm
From: Bernardo Gui

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:49:58 -0700 (PDT), val189
<gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>I'll give you the reasons I DON"T have one and you can weigh these
>'cons' also.
>
>a. don't have the space for one
>b. live very close to supermarket, so can shop often.
>c. power outage would make me wish I didn't have one* (live in
>hurricane territory)
>d. I know I'd never rotate the food in and out at optimum times .
>e. initial cost of freezer, of course.
>f. I don't like the taste of some foods which have been frozen.
>g. the freezer part of my fridge is adequate.
>h. not feeding an army, so I doubt I'd save that much money by loading
>up on bargains.

I grew up in a family with a huge chest freezer and we did the
1960's-style grocery shopping once-a-month. When I grew up and
experienced the joy of fresh food, I swore that I would never buy a
freezer. Fortunately, I have multiple markets along my short commute
route, so I can shop almost daily. My fridge-top freezer is mainly
for ice, ice cream and those blue-ice packs.

Often, never-frozen fish and meat is available at the market. It's a
waste of money, if you don't eat that fresh.

Variety is important to me, so it works out well for me to be able to
buy what I have a taste for that night. Fresh food rocks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Passion Parties
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f172f12b5abe984?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 7:46 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: is homosex affect the family
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/62d72e296a703265?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 10:31 pm
From: biswa678i@gmail.com

pls reply

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Print Grocery Store Coupons Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0db80dcce4b9ab24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 11:02 pm
From: "marilyn_katz@yahoo.com"

Hey, I figured that a lot of people can use some help with groceries
these days. Here's a resource to print grocery store coupons online:

http://www.frugalpig.com/frugallife/frugal-grocery-shopping/print-grocery-coupons-online/

Enjoy!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Health and Wellness Product Samples
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bc882938307d83e5?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 11:04 pm
From: "marilyn_katz@yahoo.com"

Here's some more help for tight budgets: Free Health and Wellness
Product Samples.

http://www.frugalpig.com/frugallife/free-stuff/free-health-and-wellness-samples/

Get more stuff like this in the free newsletter:
http://www.frugalpig.com

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