Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 11 topics

Wednesday, November 4, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In what way are you LEAST frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/18003f4ff7c65165?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 7:26 am
From: Rally2xs

The problem with this whole exchange is your denying the obvious, that
retail prices will fall when expense of the income tax is removed from
American business. It is a law of business that competition sets the
price - you may want to keep the old price and pocket that 22%, but
you'll have a competitor that will pass along the savings, so you'll
either have to lower your price in order to sell your widget, or
you'll go out of business. That's just the way it works. If you keep
clinging to your view, then we have nothing to talk about. You're
just wrong on this one.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:14 am
From: sf

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 02:16:43 -0800 (PST), Rally2xs <rally2xs@att.net>
wrote:

>I just mean that we're headed for a 3rd world economy - no industry, a
>very, very wealthy class, and a very, very poor class, and nobody in
>between.

Yep, there's a chasm that's only getting wider. We cut our throats
when we off shored most of our manufacturing.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:19 am
From: sf

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:31:55 -0500, Les Cargill
<lcargill99@comcast.net> wrote:

>In the private sector, there's a different problem - employers getting much,
>much dumber.

Getting dumber? Please expand on that idea.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:58 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rally2xs wrote:

> The problem with this whole exchange is your denying
> the obvious, that retail prices will fall when expense of
> the income tax is removed from American business.

And you are denying the even more obvious, that sales
of new cars and houses would be very fundamentally
crippled by your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax of 50%,
and even the 25% lie that wouldnt be revenue neutral.

When those sales are ALREADY crippled by the GFC
that would very comprehensively fuck the economy.

> It is a law of business that competition sets the price

It is in fact MUCH more complicated than mindlessly superficial claim.

Try telling that to Microsoft whose main competitor hands out their
main competitive product quite literally for FREE. Dont be TOO
surprised when Gates just laughs in your stupid pig ignorant face.

> - you may want to keep the old price and pocket that 22%,
> but you'll have a competitor that will pass along the savings,
> so you'll either have to lower your price in order to sell your
> widget, or you'll go out of business.

Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that the
american car manufacturers are ALREADY going out of business
WITHOUT your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax slug of 22% and would
do that in spaded if the US was actually stupid enough to go for
your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax, so not only wouldnt manufacturing
return to the US, it would see a complete decimation of the car
manufacturing industry.

House building in spades, and that is one area where there
is still a hell of a lot of work in the US, essentially because
its not that practical to move finished houses and bridges
and roads etc etc etc from china currently.

> That's just the way it works.

Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.

> If you keep clinging to your view, then we have nothing to talk about.

We can keep rubbing your stupid pig ignorant nose in the fact
that your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax cant work and why no modern
country in the entire world has actually been stupid enough to try it.

> You're just wrong on this one.

Nope, you fools are.

Fortunately there will never be enough of you fools to matter, so it wont ever happen.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:06 am
From: "Rod Speed"

sf wrote
> Rally2xs <rally2xs@att.net> wrote

>> I just mean that we're headed for a 3rd world economy - no industry, a very,
>> very wealthy class, and a very, very poor class, and nobody in between.

> Yep, there's a chasm that's only getting wider.

It isnt actually. The only real 'poor' anymore are the
'homeless' and most of them are quite literally insane,
just not in the locked wards we used in the past.

> We cut our throats when we off shored most of our manufacturing.

That was inevitable once china decided that communism wasnt going to fly.

Nothing anyone can do about the massive difference in labor costs.

And the real poor benefit from that very dramatically with the price
of low cost consumer goods being MUCH cheaper as a result too.

There will always be a massive middle class in every modern first and second world country.

Manufacturing is only a very minor employer in any modern first world country, even one like Japan.

We saw the same thing with agriculture before that with previously something like 90%
employed in agriculture in some way, now down to less than 5% and we handled that fine.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:08 am
From: "Rod Speed"

sf wrote
> Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net> wrote

>> In the private sector, there's a different problem - employers getting much, much dumber.

> Getting dumber? Please expand on that idea.

He means doing stupid stuff like shaking the shit out of their
operation for the sake of change and the latest management fad.

That has one hell of an effect on some work, particularly programming etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Durabrand dvd players going up in flames
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7cfa41e7d595e069?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 7:31 am
From: Michael Black

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, enough wrote:

>
> RichA wrote:
>> On Oct 24, 3:41 pm, enough <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09335.html
>>
>> $40 DVD players are a waste of money. They don't even last a year,
> I read about how some cheap portable CD players were being put
> together with hot glue, and how they were ment not to last more than a
> year.
>
People get what they pay for. They seem to want cheap, so they shouldn't
be surprised when they get things that can't last long.

I paid $500 for my first printer, in 1982. Wasn't anywhere near letter
quality, was terribly slow, had no descenders, but hey it was pretty much
the only printer I could get for that little.

I paid $400 for my next one, in 1984, it was a daisywheel and gave me good
quality printing.

I then paid $300 for my second dot matrix printer in 1989, it was faster
than the first two, and did give near letter quality, so it let me do away
with the two previous printers.

Printers became a "necessity", people even thinking they had to have
color, so manufacturers started providing that "need". The lower the
price, the more they could sell, since people didn't want to pay hundreds
of dollars. So the prices dropped, and while mass manufacturing can drop
costs, one has to believe that they had to take steps to make it cheaper
to make.

Look at the first generation of anything. It's sturdy, lots of metal, and
big, and very very expensive. The price drops, more people buy, they cut
manufacturing costs, and it keeps cycling through until there's not much
metal in the unit, and it's dirt cheap.

If you pay hundreds of dollars for a printer, you expect it to last a long
time, and may be even willing to spend money on its repair.

When it's a few tens of dollars, you certainly won't pay much to have it
repaired (so then that even drops the manufacturer's incentive to make it
repairable, especially if making it throwaway makes it cheaper to make).
You also won't grumble when it fails, "oh, I only paid $30 for it". How
many inkjet printers get tossed because people decide it's better to buy a
new printer ("hey, I got a new printer, it's better than the last one")
than buy new ink cartridges for the old?

Those people have decided at what point something is cheap enough to throw
away, and they've decided that the best product is something cheap.

Michael

==============================================================================
TOPIC: diy rack for oven problem
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ded71cb392c07611?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 7:45 am
From: Andy Cap

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 06:32:26 -0800, "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>As to saving pennies or fractions thereof, if people would learn to add,
>they would know that pennies add up to dollars! That is why my electric bill
>will be $28 U.S. this month. Many things I have done to my electric system
>which save pennies!

And a KW costs what exactly ?

Andy C

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:08 am
From: sf

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:13:30 +0800, "Dave C." <noway@nohow.never>
wrote:

>Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way to
>save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
>serious now... is this a troll? -Dave

These nut cases appear every so often. To store all of those
casseroles, he needs a large freezer... when the freezer is empty,
he's wasting electricity. It's a cycle he hasn't give much thought
to. Being frugal doesn't mean being cheap, it just means don't waste.
However, he's taking the concept to the point of being a cheapskate.
I wonder if he reuses toilet paper?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:13 am
From: "David WE Roberts"

"john royce" <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hcs2vs$rp9$1@news.eternal-september.org...
<snip>
> Could you make a rack out of chopsticks across the lower casserole?
>
> You could also put the chopsticks across the casserole before putting
> the lid on top.
> Owain
>
> Thanks to the sensible responses. The glass casserole dishes are so well
> made that the lids are too closely fitting even when placed upside down.
> Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where
> the wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it.

From http://www.economy-point.org/i/ignition-temperature.html
"Ignition temperature of some solids:
Solid Ignition temperature in "°C
Fir wood 280
Wood 280-340
Cork 300-320"

A normal convection oven should not go above 250C so bamboo is unlikely to
catch fire - especially as it is over food which is cooking and therfore
giving off steam.

How do you expect the chopsticks not to cope?

If you are worried you could always soak them in water first.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:26 am
From: Lou Decruss

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:56:19 -0000, "john royce"
<bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:

So after throwing a snotty fit and not thanking anyone in your sausage
query thread you now come back to RFC and ask more stupid questions?
GFY!

Lou

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Michael Black wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Dave C. wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:56:19 -0000
>> "john royce" <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to
>>> fill the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>>>
>>> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these
>>> fairly close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and
>>> some of the liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>>>
>>> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
>>> dishes one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be
>>> simple to do (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal
>>> rack on the lower one to support the upper one.
>>>
>>> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully
>>> lessons the cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used
>>> "together". So when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be
>>> used. We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole
>>> dish on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter
>>> ) by means of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter
>>> temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does such a
>>> thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat
>>> way to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.
>>>
>>
>> Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way
>> to save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
>> serious now... is this a troll? -Dave
>>
> No, problem solving can be cheap.
>
> But in the original question, there is the assumption that filling the
> microwave saves money. I'm not so sure, since the more you put in,
> the longer it takes to heat up, and hence electricity use increases.

Full does however reduce the inevitable losses, most obviously
heating the oven itself, particularly if he uses the convention
part at all, but even if he only uses it in microwave mode.

> The advantage of smaller portions at a time is that you can better
> control how it cooks, and it's certainly easier to open the door,
> take the lid off one package and stir (when stirring is needed) than
> to deal with a full oven.

Yes. But if you are into documenting the batches properly,
you should be able to get the detail right so you dont need
to inspect and adjust with the later batches with most food.

> So in order for the need for some sort of rack, one first has to see
> if there really is a savings from filling up that microwave, or is it
> basically the same electricity useage cooking things separately.

Thats unlikely.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:45 am
From: "Ophelia"

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:13:30 +0800, "Dave C." <noway@nohow.never>
> wrote:
>
>> Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way
>> to save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
>> serious now... is this a troll? -Dave
>
> These nut cases appear every so often. To store all of those
> casseroles, he needs a large freezer... when the freezer is empty,
> he's wasting electricity. It's a cycle he hasn't give much thought
> to. Being frugal doesn't mean being cheap, it just means don't waste.
> However, he's taking the concept to the point of being a cheapskate.
> I wonder if he reuses toilet paper?

I thought many things about his post, but I decided to answer the question
that was asked.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:20 am
From: "Bob F"

john royce wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to
> fill the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these
> fairly close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and
> some of the liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
> dishes one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be
> simple to do (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal
> rack on the lower one to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons
> the cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used
> "together". So when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole
> dish on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter )
> by means of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter
> temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does such a
> thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat way
> to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.

Go to a cheapo tile shop, or even hardware store, and get appropriate size large
ceramic floor tiles to separate/stack the dishes.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:51 am
From: NT

On Nov 4, 1:56 pm, "john royce" <blues...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
> one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower one
> to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
> the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
> advice.

Save far more money by tweaking recipes so very little of the
ingredietns even need heating, let alone cooking. Saves lots of time
too.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 10:09 am
From: "Robert"

"john royce" <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hcs16b$bst$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill
> the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
> one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower
> one
> to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So
> when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish
> on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means
> of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures
> using the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere
> for this purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem?
> Thanks for advice.
>
>
>

Wooden sticks might have to soak in water?

Robert

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 10:26 am
From: "Lou"

"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hcsd5a$qua$1@news.eternal-september.org...

> Go to a cheapo tile shop, or even hardware store, and get appropriate size
> large ceramic floor tiles to separate/stack the dishes.

This is **food** we're talking about here - whatever you use, if it has a
chance of coming into contact with food, should be food grade.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ♣(=@ω@=)♣cheap wholesale pants belts bikinis underwear at www.ecyaya.
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bfb9e13068a1d271?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Atlantis Word Processor, Trialpay & RealArcade GamePass
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2b7cad63a7019858?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:20 am
From: Ohioguy

I really like a word processor called "Atlantis" that I have used in
the past. (ok, a friend gave me a free copy, and I got used to using it,
but that copy doesn't work on Windows 7) I figured it is time for me to
buy my own full version anyway, and support the program authors. The
program is well designed, and very compact. It is also quite intuitive,
which is worth a lot to me.

So, I was about to spend $35 on the Atlantis word processor, but then
I noticed they had some offer called "trialpay", where you sign up for
an offer, and then once you have successfully done that, you get a full
download of a registered copy of Atlantis word processor.

I browsed the offers, and the only one that stood out was RealArcade
Gamepass. If you sign up for a 30 day free trial, you get a tetris
clone game, plus another game of your choice. Then, each month you pay
a $9.99 subscription fee, and in exchange you get to download a full
version game.

Now, I'm thinking, hmm. I was about to spend $35 for the full
version of Atlantis word processor. However, instead I can subscribe
for a couple of months, pay $10, and get 2 shareware games. I see that
"Plants vs Zombies" is on the list, and I was being tempted to register
that for $20 anyway.

So if I sign up for this, I end up spending $10 total for 2 months.
I get Plants vs Zombies for that $10, instead of paying $20 to register
it. Plus, I also get Atlantis, and another game.

Seems like a better deal, eh? However, I'm still on dialup, and
though many of the games seem small enough to download on dialup, I was
wanting to know if any of you have experience with RealArcade or Trialpay.

I'm afraid I'm going to start getting loads of junk mail from
trialpay or RealArcade. I'm also worried that the RealArcade download
manager, though it is a small download at about 600k, might either slow
my system down, be intrusive, or keep track of my browsing habits.
(spyware-like)

If anyone has any experience with either of these two programs, I
would appreciate it if you could post your thoughts here. Thanks!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: U.S. government to steal one hour
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/66bbefd054bc4339?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:26 am
From: sf

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:41:21 -0500, RickMerrill
<Rick0.merrill@gmail.nospam.com> wrote:

>h wrote:
>> "rocket scientist" <georgespamk@toast.net> wrote in message
>> news:georgespamk-E25934.16465331102009@news.isp.giganews.com...
>>> it's not fair. ;)
>>
>> Umm, how, exactly, are they "stealing an hour"? Time just happens, it's all
>> about how it's measured. "Time" CANNOT be stolen.
>>
>
>Ho ho - that is relative!

In any case, they give it back in the Spring.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Discount wholesale/ retail Handbags AAA real leather Purse Free
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cdc670d1fef54bb5?hl=en
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TOPIC: anyone think of a solution to this clinical trials problem?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f61cb32b78fb5b90?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:42 am
From: sf

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 06:44:49 -0800, "Bill"
<billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The basic needs are food, water, and shelter. So far as I know, these things
>can be had easily for free just about anywhere in the U.S. - Just ask!

The OP isn't located in the US. Great Britain Pound sign = £

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 10:21 am
From: "Rod Speed"

sf wrote
> Bill <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote

>> The basic needs are food, water, and shelter. So far as I know,
>> these things can be had easily for free just about anywhere in the
>> U.S. - Just ask!

> The OP isn't located in the US. Great Britain Pound sign = £

It isnt great britain anymore, just britain.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: List of product recalls
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/01007c42a9d4c90d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 4 2009 10:10 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Nov 3, 7:28 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> Marsha wrote:
> > Coffee's For Closers wrote:
> >> In article <hck3av$8h...@news.datemas.de>, m...@xeb.net says...
> >>> zeez wrote:
> >>>> Recall Roundup: Extra Scary Edition
> >>>> By Laura Northrup, 1:00 PM on Sat Oct 31 2009, 2,234 views
> >>>> Kroger Hazelnut Spread - undeclared peanuts
> >>>> Dove Caramel Pecan Perfection Ice Cream - undeclared peanuts
>
> >>> Unless I'm missing something, this is just stupid.
>
> >> As I understand it, peanut allergies can result in serious reactions
> >> to very small amounts. So affected people need accurate info about
> >> the ingredients.
>
> > I'm thinking if it's called Hazelnut Spread or Pecan Perfection Ice
> > Cream, common sense would tell you it probably has nuts in it, although
> > it could just be flavoring.
>
> > Marsha
>
> One could be allergic to peanuts without being allergic to hazelnuts,
> too. So the concern is valid.

Naturally. However, anyone who is allergic to peanuts but not tree
nuts
ought to be aware that any facility that processes tree nuts probably
also processes peanuts. If I had a life-threatening peanut allergy, I
probably wouldn't eat nuts of any kind. It just wouldn't be worth the
risk.

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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