Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 7 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Motivating high-school students to join college - 11 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0a99ec5ae726fd3?hl=en
* My swamp cooler / box fan . . . review - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f6479deacc6ec73?hl=en
* Cash Back Credit Cards - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d6aab1265e369320?hl=en
* "Me" generation marriages.. - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7219bb5b3666a535?hl=en
* TRAVEL AND VACATION TO THE BEST PLACES - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8dd39fbb75c3d004?hl=en
* Wholesale NIKE .AF1.TN.Jordan.shoes http://www.fashion-sky.com - 2 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5b98e210cc2bef56?hl=en
* humor - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6de7cf789f6aac16?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Motivating high-school students to join college
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0a99ec5ae726fd3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 12:51 am
From: Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG

In article <srhi-328416.07283414082007@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
srhi@comcast.net says...
> In article <46bfe906$0$31214$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Logan Shaw wrote:
> > ....
> > > But personally I think that while those things are true, a college
> > > degree is, on average, genuinely beneficial to your career. ...
> >
> > My point of view is that it's the same reason you encourage and help
> > your kids learn CPR, wilderness survival, self defense and how to
> > use guns. It's better to have the skills and education and not need
> > it than to need it and not have it.

> When I was in high school, my dad used to tell me that an education is
> the most important thing one can ever earn. Your car can be stolen, your
> wife can cheat on you, the feds can take your house away from you, but
> no one can ever take your education away from you.

On the other hand, there is plenty of education available from
the School Of Hard Knocks.

And some of it is actually much, much more valuable than what
lots of drones, I mean people, seem to have learned in
classrooms.

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 4:03 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <MPG.212c4fd6e52ac2e7989cbc@nntp.aioe.org>,
Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG <Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
>
> On the other hand, there is plenty of education available from
> the School Of Hard Knocks.
>
> And some of it is actually much, much more valuable than what
> lots of drones, I mean people, seem to have learned in
> classrooms.

I completely agree, but the reality is that a college education provides
a much greater likelihood (not guarantee) of financial success than only
a high school education.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 4:10 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <46c1d459$0$27209$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net>
wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> >
> > Making a good living is important, but being happy ranks much higher, in
> > my opinion.
>
> That's what my dad always used to tell us. He said he was blessed that
> the only career he ever wanted paid well, but he knew lots of other guys
> doing the same job as he was who were rich and miserable, and he said it
> just wasn't worth it.

Yup. My dad had a cousin who was a high ranking officer of a Fortune 500
company. This guy lived to make money, but he had to have also been very
unhappy inside because his kids wouldn't talk to him (he fired his one
son just after the guy bought a mortgage and became a parent) and his
wife eventually divorced him. He had a corporate jet, a new company
provided luxury car every year, and a whole list of other perks, except
people who loved him, and he died relatively young from stress.

I just received a job offer for a position that would pay a huge amount
more than I earn now, but I just can't see myself taking it because of
all the intangible aspects of my current job that I really enjoy. I will
never be rich (unless I hit the lottery), but I will never be poor, and
I will never ever work at a job where I am unhappy going to work.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 4:12 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <46c1d409$0$27209$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net>
wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> >
> > What makes you think most college students haven't worked in the real
> > world by the time they got to college. I worked at least one part time
> > job per semester when I was in college to help pay the bills. Some
> > semesters, I worked more than one part time job.
>
> Well, in the first place, it wasn't me who originally said that high
> school graduates should have a year of being in the regular work force
> before attending college, and in the second place, going to work to help
> pay your school bill still puts you in academia, and working full-time
> in a regular kind of job gives you a perspective of practical
> application of what you will learn in college.

The reality is that most kids who go to work full time out of high
school never begin college, or they do so very late in life. This tends
to be because once they leave high school and go out into the work
world, they get married, have kids, and develop commitments on their
time and money that preclude going to college, or delay it by many
years. There are plenty of exceptions, of course.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 5:36 am
From: clams casino

Shawn Hirn wrote:

>In article <MPG.212c4fd6e52ac2e7989cbc@nntp.aioe.org>,
> Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG <Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
>
>
>>On the other hand, there is plenty of education available from
>>the School Of Hard Knocks.
>>
>>And some of it is actually much, much more valuable than what
>>lots of drones, I mean people, seem to have learned in
>>classrooms.
>>
>>
>
>I completely agree, but the reality is that a college education provides
>a much greater likelihood (not guarantee) of financial success than only
>a high school education.
>
>

A degree typically opens door sooner in life vs. HS with years of work
experience.

It's better to have a degree with work / coop experience, but even that
will have limitations without networking which is often best achieved
through college relationships.

I'd place networking ahead of a degree and thirdly experience.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 6:22 am
From: "Daniel T."

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Daniel T. wrote:
> > Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > When I was in high school, my dad used to tell me that an
> > > education is the most important thing one can ever earn.
>
> > You don't need to buy an education though. You can get one without
> > stepping foot on a college campus.
>
> You can, and you can also go to college and get a degree without
> getting much of an education.

Let's group people into four classes then:
A) no education, no degree.
B) no education, has degree.
C) has education, no degree.
D) has education, has degree.

Wether or not you go to college doesn't really affect the first factor
(motivation to learn is way more important.)

> However, college is generally a marvelous opportunity to learn
> things.

So is the public library.

> There are all these other people around you, and a high proportion
> of them (compared to the general population) want to learn things,

Simply associating with intelligent, knowledgeable people has the same
effect.

> plus there are a bunch of grad students and professors you can ask
> about things if you are really curious. So for that reason, I like
> it.

However, as you note above, just because they are grad
students/professors doesn't mean they are automatically knowledgeable.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 6:37 am
From: m1@mailinator.com

On Aug 14, 7:52 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> <m...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187111129.288045.8680@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 10:22 am, m...@mailinator.com wrote:
> >> On Aug 13, 9:08 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> >> > <m...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>
> >> >news:1186967959.332366.319390@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > > ...in Tallahassee, FL...
>
> >> > > In my area people who work for stores like Target, JC Penney people
> >> > > withhighschooldiploma and 2-3 years of experience start with
> >> > > 50K(gross),
>
> >> > That's pretty good money for an area with a median family income of $30.5K.
>
> >> > I wonder why more families don't just take one of those $50K starter jobs over
> >> > at Target.
>
> >> > Don
>
> >>http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL12706...
>
> > Apologies, the average median income in this area is 52K for 2006
> > according to the Money maagzine, not 57K as I mentioned earlier. It
> > was careless for me.
> > Thanks
Thanks to all who are aiding me.

> According to other sites, the median householder income is
> $30.8K for ages 25-34, which is what the kids were talking about.
>
> Apparently a householder is anyone who lives in a house. I mistakenly
> referred to family income, which is the total income of family members.
>
> Anyway, my point was that the $50K starting job at Target claimed by
> the kids, doesn't sound very credible.
>
> http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/incomeOverview.php?locIndex=8951
It seems to be 2000 census data.

I was also confused by the number the boys claimed. But, then it was
difficult for me to deny certain arguments posed by them like business
owners are far well off than typical employees working for someone,
and average is impacted by people like me, people(like single parents)
who are on govt. aid etc. The people who claimed fantastic incomes
seem to be accurate as those folks are in business, but they are the
people whose start ups flourished quite well, which is rare and some
had breaks like my landlord(inheritance) etc.

Thanks for your aid and time.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 8:04 am
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> There are all these other people around you, and a high proportion of
>> them (compared to the general population) want to learn things, plus
>> there are a bunch of grad students and professors you can ask about
>> things if you are really curious. So for that reason, I like it.
>
>I've always felt that its dinosaur stuff, a primitive way of learning things.

I'm full time adult college student right now

I agree with BOTH of you!

In some ways college is god exposure.... but in some
waste (like Rod) feel it's also a rip off one thing Id
like to see change is the METHOD in which classes are
taught

let me explain.... instead of taking say four classes
simultaneous..... calculus, chemistry, history,
ethics... and having to meet all kinds of weird
schedules.... why not do ONE subject at a time for say
three hrs a day but for three or four weeks? THEN.....
move on to next subject and do the same way?

Seems to me that this more intense way of learning
which allows one to concentrate only on that one
subject would be best

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 8:07 am
From: me@privacy.net

clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:

>I'd place networking ahead of a degree and thirdly experience.

Interesting idea!

So you feel that networking trumps even education and
work experience?

And that "who you know" is THE most important factor in
success in work world?

Agree?

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 8:26 am
From: clams casino

me@privacy.net wrote:

>clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'd place networking ahead of a degree and thirdly experience.
>>
>>
>
> Interesting idea!
>
>So you feel that networking trumps even education and
>work experience?
>
>And that "who you know" is THE most important factor in
>success in work world?
>
>Agree?
>
>
Fully agree. Most jobs (especially the best jobs) seem to be obtained
through connections.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 8:28 am
From: clams casino

clams casino wrote:

> me@privacy.net wrote:
>
>> clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'd place networking ahead of a degree and thirdly experience.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Interesting idea!
>>
>> So you feel that networking trumps even education and
>> work experience?
>>
>> And that "who you know" is THE most important factor in
>> success in work world?
>>
>> Agree?
>>
>>
> Fully agree. Most jobs (especially the best jobs) seem to be
> obtained through connections.
>
>
I should have reinforced the fact that attending college is a key means
to networking / connections.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My swamp cooler / box fan . . . review
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f6479deacc6ec73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 2:51 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Tockk <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I bought one of these a while ago:
http://www.electric-fan.com/product/BFC2200.aspx
>for about 1/3 off, and it's been rainy and humid here in the Dallas area for
>the past while. Haven't had the chance to use it until yesterday, when it
>was hot and 33% humidity (according to the TV weatherman).

The ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard says that's very hot, with a predicted
mean vote of 3.07 on a scale of -3 (very cold) to 0 (perfectly comfortable)
to +3 (very hot.)

T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%

35 33 .5 3.07171 99.38564

The standard predicts that 99.38564% of people surveyed would be dissatisfied.

>I fired it up, and used a thermometer to read the temperature of air going
>in vs. air coming out. In my apartment, it read 95 degrees going in to the
>fan, and 84 coming out of the fan.

The web site says it moves 415 cfm, and 1 Btu/h can cool 1 cfm about 1 F
and 1000 Btu can evaporate 1 pound of water, so you were cooling the air by
about 415(95-84) = 4565 Btu/h with about 4.565 pounds per hour of water.

With an outdoor vapor pressure Po = 0.33e^(17.863-9621/(460+95)) = 0.559 "Hg
(using a Clausius-Clapeyron approximation--ask Caryn), and humidity ratio
wo = 0.62198/(29.921/Po-1) = 0.00185 pounds of water per pound of dry air
(1 ft^3 of 70 F air weighs 0.075 pounds), 4.565 = 60x415x0.075(wi-wo) makes
wi = 0.014295 and Pi = 0.6877 "Hg with a 57.6% RH indoors, which would be
a lot more comfy:

T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%

28.88889 57.6 .5 .8197596 19.1735

Only 19.1735% of the people would be dissatisfied.

If you could evaporate 6 vs 4.565 pounds of water per hour, you could lower
the outdoor air temp to 80.5 F with wi = 0.01506 and a 66.3% RH, which would
be even more comfy:

T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%

26.94445 66.3 .5 6.351899E02 5.083534

The ASHRAE comfort zone is defined by -0.5 < PMV < 0.5. They also limit
the humidity ratio to 0.0120 max, so wi = 0.014295 is outside the zone,
even though the calc below suggests it would be close to perfectly
comfortable, with 5.083534 Per cent of People Dissatisfied.
(You can't please everyone with one condition.)

>As far as ability to cool a room, well, it's limited.

You may be cooling more outdoor air than you need.

>I have two windows seperated by about 6 feet of wall space. I put
>the cooler-fan in front of one window, and I have another fan
>in the other window that pushes the air to the outside.

You might enjoy moving the cooler into the room and only running it when
the room temp rises to 80.5 F with a thermostat, and only running the fan
when the room RH rises to 66.3%, with a humidistat, eg this one:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1611632220

>It holds a few gallons of water, which isn't enough for an 8 hour run.

If you are only cooling the room and C cfm of outdoor air with P pounds
of water per hour, and the room thermal conductance is (say) 50 Btu/h-F,
1000P = (95-80.5)(50+C) and P = 60C0.075(wi-wo) make P = 1.73 lb/h and
C = 120 cfm, so the 3.25 gallon reservoir would last 3.25x8.33/1.73 =
15.6 hours.

50 CLO =.5'clothing insulation (clo)
60 MET=1.1'metabolic rate (met)
70 WME=0'external work (met)
80 TA=(80.5-32)/1.8'air temp (C)
90 TR=TA'mean radiant temp (C)
100 VEL=.5'air velocity
120 RH=66.3'relative humidity (%)
130 PA=0'water vapor pressure
140 DEF FNPS(T)=EXP(16.6536-4030.183/(TA+235))'sat vapor pressure, kPa
150 IF PA=0 THEN PA=RH*10*FNPS(TA)'water vapor pressure, Pa
160 ICL=.155*CLO'clothing resistance (m^2K/W)
170 M=MET*58.15'metabolic rate (W/m^2)
180 W=WME*58.15'external work in (W/m^2)
190 MW=M-W'internal heat production
200 IF ICL<.078 THEN FCL=1+1.29*ICL ELSE FCL=1.05+.645*ICL'clothing factor
210 HCF=12.1*SQR(VEL)'forced convection conductance
220 TAA=TA+273'air temp (K)
230 TRA=TR+273'mean radiant temp (K)
250 TCLA=TAA+(35.5-TA)/(3.5*(6.45*ICL+.1))'est clothing temp
260 P1=ICL*FCL:P2=P1*3.96:P3=P1*100:P4=P1*TAA'intermediate values
300 P5=308.7-.028*MW+P2*(TRA/100)^4
310 XN=TCLA/100
320 XF=XN
330 N=0'number of iterations
340 EPS=.00015'stop iteration when met
350 XF=(XF+XN)/2'natural convection conductance
360 HCN=2.38*ABS(100*XF-TAA)^.25
370 IF HCF>HCN THEN HC=HCF ELSE HC=HCN
380 XN=(P5+P4*HC-P2*XF^4)/(100+P3*HC)
390 N=N+1
400 IF N>150 GOTO 550
410 IF ABS(XN-XF)>EPS GOTO 350
420 TCL=100*XN-273'clothing surface temp (C)
440 HL1=.00305*(5733-6.99*MW-PA)'heat loss diff through skin
450 IF MW>58.15 THEN HL2=.42*(MW-58.15) ELSE HL2=0'heat loss by sweating
460 HL3=.000017*M*(5867-PA)'latent respiration heat loss
470 HL4=.0014*M*(34-TA)'dry respiration heat loss
480 HL5=3.96*FCL*(XN^4-(TRA/100)^4)'heat loss by radiation
490 HL6=FCL*HC*(TCL-TA)'heat loss by convection
510 TS=.303*EXP(-.036*M)+.028'thermal sensation transfer coefficient
520 PMV=TS*(MW-HL1-HL2-HL3-HL4-HL5-HL6)'predicted mean vote
530 PPD=100-95*EXP(-.03353*PMV^4-.2179*PMV^2)'predicted % dissatisfied
540 GOTO 580
550 PMV=99999!:PPD=100
580 PRINT TA,RH,CLO,PMV,PPD

T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%

35 33 .5 3.07171 99.38564
28.88889 57.6 .5 .8197596 19.1735
26.94445 66.3 .5 6.351899E02 5.083534

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cash Back Credit Cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d6aab1265e369320?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 4:01 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <mivwi.1098$i75.432@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net>,
"NR" <nr@n.com> wrote:

> Citi Bank cut the cash back they give their card holders for gas, food and
> drug store purchases from 5% to 2%. It looks like most other credit card
> companies are no longer offering 5% cash back on these types of purchases or
> are offering 5% for only a limited time. Or they offer 5% for purchases in
> less popular categories and rotate the categories every 3 months or so.
> Discover Card does this and based on the categories I've seen I would be
> much better off always getting 5% or even 3% on gas, food and drugstore
> purchases instead of the Discover rotating categories.
>
> Does anyone know of any credit cards still offering 5% cash back for gas,
> food and drug store purchases? The best I've seen is 3%.

I suggest you try searching http://www.bankrate.com for that information.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 4:04 am
From: clams casino

NR wrote:

>Citi Bank cut the cash back they give their card holders for gas, food and
>drug store purchases from 5% to 2%. It looks like most other credit card
>companies are no longer offering 5% cash back on these types of purchases or
>are offering 5% for only a limited time. Or they offer 5% for purchases in
>less popular categories and rotate the categories every 3 months or so.
>Discover Card does this and based on the categories I've seen I would be
>much better off always getting 5% or even 3% on gas, food and drugstore
>purchases instead of the Discover rotating categories.
>
>Does anyone know of any credit cards still offering 5% cash back for gas,
>food and drug store purchases? The best I've seen is 3%.
>
>Nick
>
>
>
>
>
I received a prescreened mail offer yesterday yesterday from Chase -
Visa (www.sendmethecard.com) which reports a 3% rebate on all purchases
on your top three spending categories with 1% on everything else - No
fee with $100 cash back after your first purchase.

It could be of interest if used just for perhaps gas, groceries & one
other of 15 categories.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Me" generation marriages..
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7219bb5b3666a535?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 7:10 am
From: "Bill"

They say those in their 20's are the "me" generation. (Very selfish, only
think about themselves, etc.)

Well I am finding it interesting to see modern day marriages between some of
these people. Especially when they talk about money matters...

It is "my" money and "her" money. Or "my" money and "his" money.

"I can't watch "my" TV show because she did not pay for the cable TV with
"her" money like she was supposed to."

"I'm not paying for that with "my" money, you pay for it with "your" money!"

There is "his" bank account and "her" bank account.

The monthly car insurance bill for two cars comes as two separate
statements. One for his car, the other for hers. He pays his with "his"
money, she pays hers with "her" money. (They could of course get a discount
if they placed both cars under the same policy.)

Etc.

When I was that age, it was "our" money. "We" paid for this that and the
other thing. One checking account in "our" names. "We" would decide to buy
or not buy something for "us".

My parents were the same way as well as all the other families I knew
growing up.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 7:36 am
From: "Chloe"

"Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5igfqnF3q1llkU1@mid.individual.net...
> They say those in their 20's are the "me" generation. (Very selfish, only
> think about themselves, etc.)
>
> Well I am finding it interesting to see modern day marriages between some
> of these people. Especially when they talk about money matters...
>
> It is "my" money and "her" money. Or "my" money and "his" money.
>
> "I can't watch "my" TV show because she did not pay for the cable TV with
> "her" money like she was supposed to."
>
> "I'm not paying for that with "my" money, you pay for it with "your"
> money!"
>
> There is "his" bank account and "her" bank account.
>
> The monthly car insurance bill for two cars comes as two separate
> statements. One for his car, the other for hers. He pays his with "his"
> money, she pays hers with "her" money. (They could of course get a
> discount if they placed both cars under the same policy.)
>
> Etc.
>
> When I was that age, it was "our" money. "We" paid for this that and the
> other thing. One checking account in "our" names. "We" would decide to buy
> or not buy something for "us".
>
> My parents were the same way as well as all the other families I knew
> growing up.

How old are you? My husband and I are 62 and 57 respectively. For almost all
of our 37-year marriage, we've kept separate checking accounts and divided
up the bills. In the big picture, we consider all the family assets and
expenses as shared or joint, but as far as logistics go, divvying everything
up is the arrangement that works for us. Some degree of division seems to
make sense especially for 20-somethings, particularly with the relative
popularity of "starter" marriages nowadays.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 7:50 am
From: Rudy Canoza

Bill wrote:
> They say those in their 20's are the "me" generation. (Very selfish, only
> think about themselves, etc.) [snip remainder of big steaming load...]

Well, that's funny - that's what people in their 40s
and up were saying about people in their 20s back in
the 1970s when I was in my 20s. In fact, it seems that
that's what people in their 40s and up are /always/
saying about people in their 20s.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 9:54 am
From: Steve Cothran

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:36:38 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
wrote:

Some degree of division seems to
>make sense especially for 20-somethings, particularly with the relative
>popularity of "starter" marriages nowadays.
>

I submit that this division is one of the reasons for the "starter
marriage".

All or nothing. Partners or not. Easy Question.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 8:11 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

i'm 50, married almost 31yrs. it's always been "our" money. i think that
the
no fault divorce laws may be at the root of it. who wants to get
financially
tangled up when the spouse can say "bye" anytime? women especially. i
think
if i should ever remarry, that may be the way i'd go, as well.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 8:55 am
From: Rudy Canoza

AL wrote:
> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> They say those in their 20's are the "me" generation. (Very selfish,
>>> only think about themselves, etc.) [snip remainder of big steaming
>>> load...]
>>
>>
>> Well, that's funny - that's what people in their 40s and up were
>> saying about people in their 20s back in the 1970s when I was in my
>> 20s. In fact, it seems that that's what people in their 40s and up
>> are /always/ saying about people in their 20s.
>>
>
>
> And its always been that way.
>
> An interesting piece was written back in the 30's (I think) bemoaning
> the moral decay of the adolescents of the time - anyone today reading it
> would recognize and probably agree with most everything the author had
> to say on the matter. It was a fairly lengthy piece and hit on nearly
> every concern that you've probably heard all your life about your
> generation or the next or the next. Interestingly enough the piece was
> attributed to Hitler. I heard it many years ago on the radio, probably
> NPR, but have failed to actually find it anywhere.
>
> Caveman discovers the wheel, the next generation is hotrodding through
> the mammoth herd, punks...

There was an excellent article back in 1992 in the
Atlantic Monthly about the "new generation gap". It
concerned the aging baby boomers and the then-young
Gen-Xers. The story is at

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/92dec/9212genx.htm,

but you need to be a subscriber to get to it. I'll
post the first four paragraphs below. Meanwhile, in
the story, the authors indicate that there was an
earlier generation gap much like the 1960s gap between
boomers and their parents, back around 1880. What was
then the younger generation they labeled the Missionary
Generation, as these were the young folks who were
going to save the world by going off to Asia to "save"
the heathen. Their parents were the Civil War
generation who fought in the great war, much as
boomers' parents were the "Greatest" generation who
saved the day in the 1940s. The parents became
materialistic after the war; the young'uns were
idealistic and anti-material. One of the main themes
of the story is that these generational archetypes are
repeating, and in pretty much the same order.

Here are the promised first four paragraphs from the story:

TWO world views, reflecting fundamentally different
visions of society and self, are moving into conflict
in the America of the 1990s. A new generation gap is
emerging. In the late 1960's the fight was mainly
between twenty-year-olds and the fifty-plus crowd.
Today it's mainly between young people and the thirty-
to forty-year-olds.

In these gaps, the old 1960s one and the emerging 1990s
facsimile, there have been two constants: Each time,
the same conspicuous generation has been involved. Each
time, that generation has claimed the moral and
cultural high ground, casting itself as the apex of
civilization and its age-bracket adversaries as
soul-dead, progress-blocking philistines. The first
time around, the members of that generation attacked
their elders; now they're targeting their juniors.

We're talking about Baby Boomers. Born from 1943 to
1960, today's 69 million Boomers range in age from
thirty-two to forty-nine. Defined by its personality
type, this generation is somewhat different from the
group defined simply by the well-known demographic
fertility bulge (1946-1964). At the front end, the
grown-up "victory babies" of 1943 -- peers of Janis
Joplin and Bobby Fischer, Joni Mitchell and Geraldo
Rivera, Oliver North and Rap Brown, R. Crumb and Angela
Davis, Newt Gingrich and Bill Bradley -- include the
first Dr. Spock toddlers; the fiery college class of
1965; the oldest Vietnam-era draftcard burners; the
eldest among "Americans Under 25," whom Time magazine
named its "1967 Man of the Year"; and the last
twenty-nine-year-olds (in 1972) to hear the phrase
"under-thirty generation" before its sudden
disappearance. At the back end, the grown-up Eisenhower
babies of 1960 are the last-born of today's Americans
to feel any affinity with the hippie-cum-yuppie baggage
that accompanies the Boomer label.

The younger antagonists are less well known: America's
thirteenth generation, born from 1961 to 1981, ranging
in age from eleven to thirty-one. Demographers call
them Baby Busters, a name that deserves a prompt and
final burial. First, it's incorrect: The early-sixties
birth cohorts are among the biggest in U.S. history --
and, at 80 million, this generation has numerically
outgrown the Boom. By the late 1990s it will even
outvote the Boom. Second, the name is insulting --
"Boom" followed by "Bust," as though wonder were
followed by disappointment. The novelist Doug Coupland,
himself a 1961 baby, dubs his age-mates "Generation X"
or "Xers," a name first used by and about British
Boomer-punkers. Shann Nix, a journalist at the San
Francisco Chronicle, suggests "posties" (as in "post
yuppies"), another name that, like Coupland's, leaves
the generation in the shadow of the great Boom.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 9:12 am
From: barbie gee

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007, Rudy Canoza wrote:

> AL wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> They say those in their 20's are the "me" generation. (Very selfish, only
>>>> think about themselves, etc.) [snip remainder of big steaming load...]
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, that's funny - that's what people in their 40s and up were saying
>>> about people in their 20s back in the 1970s when I was in my 20s. In
>>> fact, it seems that that's what people in their 40s and up are /always/
>>> saying about people in their 20s.
>>
>> And its always been that way.
>>
>> An interesting piece was written back in the 30's (I think) bemoaning the
>> moral decay of the adolescents of the time - anyone today reading it would
>> recognize and probably agree with most everything the author had to say on
>> the matter. It was a fairly lengthy piece and hit on nearly every concern
>> that you've probably heard all your life about your generation or the next
>> or the next. Interestingly enough the piece was attributed to Hitler. I
>> heard it many years ago on the radio, probably NPR, but have failed to
>> actually find it anywhere.
>>
>> Caveman discovers the wheel, the next generation is hotrodding through the
>> mammoth herd, punks...
>
> There was an excellent article back in 1992 in the Atlantic Monthly about the
> "new generation gap". It concerned the aging baby boomers and the then-young
> Gen-Xers. The story is at
> http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/92dec/9212genx.htm, but you need to be a
> subscriber to get to it. I'll post the first four paragraphs below.
> Meanwhile, in the story, the authors indicate that there was an earlier
> generation gap much like the 1960s gap between boomers and their parents,
> back around 1880. What was then the younger generation they labeled the
> Missionary Generation, as these were the young folks who were going to save
> the world by going off to Asia to "save" the heathen. Their parents were the
> Civil War generation who fought in the great war, much as boomers' parents
> were the "Greatest" generation who saved the day in the 1940s. The parents
> became materialistic after the war; the young'uns were idealistic and
> anti-material. One of the main themes of the story is that these
> generational archetypes are repeating, and in pretty much the same order.
>

see also "Grups"

<http://nymag.com/news/features/16529/>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TRAVEL AND VACATION TO THE BEST PLACES
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8dd39fbb75c3d004?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 8:30 am
From: gjensen

I'm always looking for family travel destinations, any suggestions?
Here is alist of those we have reviewed
http://www.familiesonlinemagazine.com/travel/index.html

On Aug 14, 9:41 pm, "naziraati...@gmail.com" <naziraati...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> TRAVEL AND VACATION TO THE BEST PLACES
>
> Everyone loves to travel or go for a vacation.Get your best
> informations from here. "Without Dreams, There Can Be No Greatness"...by
> Ronald J.Walker
>
> http://travel.cakapgold.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale NIKE .AF1.TN.Jordan.shoes http://www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5b98e210cc2bef56?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 9:27 am
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TOPIC: humor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6de7cf789f6aac16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 15 2007 9:30 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

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Believe in her.
Pray with her.
Pray for her.
Cuddle with her.
Shop with her.
Give her jewelry.
Buy her flowers.
Hold her hand.
Write love letters to her.
Go to the ends of the earth and back again for her.

How To Treat a Man:

Show up naked.
Bring chicken wings.
Don't block the TV.

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Wednesday, August 15, 2007

25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

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