Frugal Living: 24 new messages in 13 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Driver
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f899b560aa190a67?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 11:14 am
From: Jeff

jenkins419@gmail.com wrote:
> Were would I find drivers for the emachine modem 56K ITU v.92-ready
> Fax/Modem, Model T2742, check wedsite unable to get the drivers, does
> anyone have them out there?
>

Like Duh,

Google: T2742 modem driver

Yield this as the first hit:

http://www.emachines.com/support/product_support.html?cat=Desktops&subcat=T-Series&model=T3624

That page has a link to two different modem drivers.

Perhaps a better question is whether buying a stripped down emachine
is a frugal choice when there is a glut of decent used PCs.

Jeff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 7:22 pm
From: "Bob F"

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:13r94ohm155803b@corp.supernews.com...
> jenkins419@gmail.com wrote:
>> Were would I find drivers for the emachine modem 56K ITU v.92-ready
>> Fax/Modem, Model T2742, check wedsite unable to get the drivers, does
>> anyone have them out there?
>>
>
> Like Duh,
>
> Google: T2742 modem driver
>
> Yield this as the first hit:
>
>
> http://www.emachines.com/support/product_support.html?cat=Desktops&subcat=T-Series&model=T3624

Cheater.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: it makes money today
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ab7b1cd513b8e51c?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 11:24 am
From: bux.tomax@gmail.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 3:13 pm
From: Cheapo Groovo

In article <fb673d51-5ee5-4032-a0be-5e3bd5358e05
@m78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, bux.tomax@gmail.com says...
> register here and it begins to make money
> http://bux.to/?r=carlos1869
> very easy
>
My systems use PayPal which is more universal Alert Pay.
Also you get paid $1 per vote not a penny per click!

www.cheapogroovo.com
http://cheapogroovo.vox.com - tag is subvert and profit

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why do we pay for free stuff?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/03a5b3cae08816d6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 11:54 am
From: Steve

Excerpts from http://edge.org/3rd_culture/kelly08/kelly08_index.html

The internet is a copy machine. Unlike the mass-produced reproductions
of the machine age, these copies are not just cheap, they are free.
Our wealth sits upon a very large device that copies promiscuously and
constantly.

Yet the previous round of wealth in this economy was built on selling
precious copies, so the free flow of free copies tends to undermine
the established order. How does one make money selling free copies?

When copies are super abundant, they become worthless, and stuff which
can't be copied becomes scarce and valuable. When copies are free, you
need to sell things which cannot be copied.

What can't be copied?

Trust cannot be copied. You can't purchase it. Trust must be earned
over time. It cannot be downloaded or faked (at least not for long).
If everything else is equal, you'll always prefer to deal with someone
you trust. Trust is an intangible that has increasing value in a
copy-saturated world.

There are a number of other qualities similar to trust that are
difficult to copy, and thus become valuable in this network economy.
We can start with a simple user question - why would we ever pay for
anything that we could get for free? When anyone buys a version of
something they could get for free, what are they purchasing?

I see roughly eight categories of intangible value that we buy when we
pay for something that could be free.

In a real sense, these are eight things that are better than free.
Eight uncopyable values. I call them "generatives." A generative value
is a quality or attribute that must be generated, grown, cultivated,
nurtured. A generative cannot be copied, cloned, faked, replicated,
counterfeited, or reproduced. It is generated uniquely, in place, over
time. In the digital arena, generative qualities add value to free
copies, and therefore are something that can be sold.

The Eight Generatives

1. Immediacy. Sooner or later you can find a free copy of whatever
you want, but getting a copy delivered to your inbox the moment it is
released or produced by its creators is a generative asset.

2. Personalization. Personalization requires an ongoing conversation
between the creator and consumer, artist and fan, producer and user.
It is deeply generative because it is iterative and time consuming.
You can't copy the personalization that a relationship represents.

3. Interpretation. As the old joke goes - software free, manual
$10,000. But it's no joke. I suspect a lot of genetic information will
go this route. Right now getting your copy of your DNA is very
expensive, but soon it won't be. In fact, pharmaceutical companies
will PAY you to get your genes sequence. The copy of your sequence
will be free, but the interpretation of what it means, what you can do
about it, and how to use it, will be expensive.

4. Authenticity. You might be able to grab a key software
application for free, but even if you don't need a manual, you might
like to be sure it is bug free, reliable, and warranted. You'll pay
for authenticity. Graphic reproductions such as photographs and
lithographs often come with the artist's stamp of authenticity - a
signature - to raise the price of the copy.

5. Accessibility. Ownership often sucks. You have to keep your
things tidy, up-to-date, and in the case of digital material, backed
up. Many people will be happy to have others tend our possessions by
subscribing to them. We'll pay Acme Digital Warehouse to serve us any
musical tune in the world, when and where we want it. Ditto for books
and blogs. Acme backs everything up, pays the creators, and delivers
us our desires. The fact that most of this material will be available
free, if we want to tend it, back it up, keep adding to it, and
organize it, will be less and less appealing as time goes on.

6. Embodiment. At its core the digital copy is without a body. You
can take a free copy of a work and throw it on a screen. But perhaps
you'd like to see it in hi-res on a huge screen? Maybe in 3D? What
about dwelling in your favorite (free) game with 35 others in the same
room? There is no end to greater embodiment. Nothing gets embodied as
much as music in a live performance, with real bodies. The music is
free - the bodily performance is expensive.

7. Patronage. It is my belief that audiences WANT to pay creators.
Fans like to reward artists, musicians, authors and the like with the
tokens of their appreciation, because it allows them to connect. But
they will only pay if it is very easy to do, a reasonable amount, and
they feel certain the money will directly benefit the creators. The
elusive, intangible connection that flows between appreciative fans
and the artist is worth something. There are many examples of the
audience paying simply because it feels good.

8. Findability. Whereas the previous generative qualities reside
within creative digital works, findability is an asset that occurs at
a higher level in the aggregate of many works. A zero price does not
help direct attention to a work, and in fact may sometimes hinder it.
No matter what its price, a work has no value unless it is seen. When
there are millions of books, millions of songs, millions of films,
millions of applications, millions of everything requesting our
attention - and most of it free - being found is valuable.

These eight qualities require a new skill set. Success in the
free-copy world is not derived from the skills of distribution. The
money in this networked economy does not follow the path of the
copies. Rather it follows the path of attention, and attention has its
own circuits. Maintaining generatives is a lot harder than duplicating
copies in a factory.

Even he, to whom most things that most people
would think were pretty smart were pretty dumb,
thought it was pretty smart.

...Douglas Adams

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47cd21f390da1ff1?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 12:25 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get USB boom mic headset over analog?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e83855c8e1f36cba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 1:17 pm
From: me@privacy.net

I'm looking for a good boom mic headset to use with
either a desktop or laptop for such things as Skype,
chat, and even voice recognition software such as
Dragon Dictate.

Should one get a USB based model over the standard
analog model?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 5:42 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

> I'm looking for a good boom mic headset to use with either
> a desktop or laptop for such things as Skype, chat, and
> even voice recognition software such as Dragon Dictate.

> Should one get a USB based model over the standard analog model?

I did for that, and havent had any regrets.

Havent tried it with voice recognition tho.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Was my home purchase in 2006 frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9d0f58de213b13b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 1:24 pm
From: skarkada@gmail.com

If you bought a house when you didn't need it, then that is not
frugal. If you bought the house as an investment, stop reading right
here as all investments come with some risk.

If you have a family, and your family felt that they need a house
(instead of living in an apartment), then you bought the house for the
family, and just don't worry about it.

Think of it as something similar to a TV or a car. You buy things for
entertainment or need. You do your research and buy something that you
perceive as best value. Loss of house value doesn't come into picture
unless you want to sell it and right now.

Renting Vs buying has been discussed a number of times before. My
conclusion is that renting is cheaper if you compare ONLY the costs.
Once you put in "investment" or "providing a stable environment for
family" into the formula, it becomes quite complex.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 1:41 pm
From: clams_casino

Joe wrote:

>I just read this article detailing how home prices in the Northeast
>dropped 4.8% from 2006-2007. I purchased my home in Aug 2006 and knew
>prices were going to drop but our situation left me very little choice
>so I justified my purchase at the time thinking the worst case
>scenario is that my house value will drop around 5% a year, well it
>did, but I still figure that I'm ahead of the game considering 5% of
>my purchase price is still less than I would have paid in rent for
>2007. That money would have been thrown away never to be seen again
>anyway. Now I know I am still on the hook for taxes and upkeep of the
>house but my quality of life is drastically different than living in
>an apartment so I consider that expense a wash. Am I wrong in
>justifying my purchase this way? Can anyone point out if my thinking
>is off on this?
>
>

If taxes, mortgage interest, higher insurance, etc are negligible costs,
then the 5% drop is probably similar to paying rent.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 2:07 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Feb 14, 10:37 am, Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just read this article detailing how home prices in the Northeast
> dropped 4.8% from 2006-2007. I purchased my home in Aug 2006 and knew
> prices were going to drop but our situation left me very little choice
> so I justified my purchase at the time thinking the worst case
> scenario is that my house value will drop around 5% a year, well it
> did, but I still figure that I'm ahead of the game considering 5% of
> my purchase price is still less than I would have paid in rent for
> 2007. That money would have been thrown away never to be seen again
> anyway. Now I know I am still on the hook for taxes and upkeep of the
> house but my quality of life is drastically different than living in
> an apartment so I consider that expense a wash. Am I wrong in
> justifying my purchase this way? Can anyone point out if my thinking
> is off on this?

If you like your house and can afford it, why do you need
justification? If you bought on the hgh end of the price scale, you
might have to stay there for a few more years to increase the value
again. The ones who made a mistake were the ones buying the cookie-
cutter tract homes in markets that were overinflated price wise.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 6:09 pm
From: "Lou"

"Joe" <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd07afed-9e4e-49b7-a94a-515efe282466@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> I just read this article detailing how home prices in the Northeast
> dropped 4.8% from 2006-2007. I purchased my home in Aug 2006 and knew
> prices were going to drop but our situation left me very little choice
> so I justified my purchase at the time thinking the worst case
> scenario is that my house value will drop around 5% a year, well it
> did, but I still figure that I'm ahead of the game considering 5% of
> my purchase price is still less than I would have paid in rent for
> 2007. That money would have been thrown away never to be seen again
> anyway. Now I know I am still on the hook for taxes and upkeep of the
> house but my quality of life is drastically different than living in
> an apartment so I consider that expense a wash. Am I wrong in
> justifying my purchase this way? Can anyone point out if my thinking
> is off on this?

I think you're wrong in even thinking about it until, when, and if the
occasion arises where you again must make a choice to buy a house or not.
What's done is done, you can't go back and not buy the house, and fretting
over past mistakes or gloating over past triumphs won't change the present
and say nothing about the future.

For what it's worth, I bought my present house a little over 18 years ago,
at pretty near the top of the last real estate cycle, and within a year the
market price of the house had dropped around 20%. If I had sold within a
year or two of buying, I would have taken a beating, but I didn't and prices
recovered and then some even before the recent boom.

One result of that experience is that I don't see that a price drop of 5% is
any big deal - maybe tough on someone who bought recently and must sell for
whatever reason, but in terms of normal market fluctuations no big deal.

Do you like living there more than your last rental? Is the after tax cost
more, or less, or the same than it would be if you were a renter instead?
If you can answer yes to the first and less or the same to the second, you
have all the justification you should need. Even if the answer to the
second is more, you still have all the justification you need provided
you're not having problems paying the bills.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 8:32 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:53:18 GMT, "rox" <roxanne.gray@att.net> wrote:

>
>"Joe" <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:dd07afed-9e4e-49b7-a94a-515efe282466@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>>I just read this article detailing how home prices in the Northeast
>> dropped 4.8% from 2006-2007. I purchased my home in Aug 2006 and knew
>> prices were going to drop but our situation left me very little choice
>> so I justified my purchase at the time thinking the worst case
>> scenario is that my house value will drop around 5% a year, well it
>> did, but I still figure that I'm ahead of the game considering 5% of
>> my purchase price is still less than I would have paid in rent for
>> 2007. That money would have been thrown away never to be seen again
>> anyway. Now I know I am still on the hook for taxes and upkeep of the
>> house but my quality of life is drastically different than living in
>> an apartment so I consider that expense a wash. Am I wrong in
>> justifying my purchase this way? Can anyone point out if my thinking
>> is off on this?
>
>If you bought it to live in, don't worry about it. Prices will rebound over
>time and you are building equity. If you don't plan to sell in the next 5
>years you'll be fine. I live in the Northeast too and while prices have
>dropped the demand for housing overall hasn't. It's just shifted because
>marginal buyers are no longer able to find loans that they really can't pay
>on houses that were overvalued to begin with.

Yeah, what he said. If you were a highly paid investment manager,
supervising other people's money, and you lost in a stock market dip,
then maybe it would be worth beating yourself up a bit.

In a case like this, you lost a teeny bit of paper equity but still
have the use of the property. Bottom line is, unless you sell, you
haven't lost anything. If you have ever invested in a stock, or
personally invested in a business, you realize that valuation has some
fluctuation and just wait it out or assess whether the trend will
continue enough to be concerned..

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 9:39 pm
From: Ron Peterson

On Feb 14, 12:37 pm, Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just read this article detailing how home prices in the Northeast
> dropped 4.8% from 2006-2007. I purchased my home in Aug 2006 and knew
> prices were going to drop but our situation left me very little choice
> so I justified my purchase at the time thinking the worst case
> scenario is that my house value will drop around 5% a year, well it
> did, but I still figure that I'm ahead of the game considering 5% of
> my purchase price is still less than I would have paid in rent for
> 2007. That money would have been thrown away never to be seen again
> anyway. Now I know I am still on the hook for taxes and upkeep of the
> house but my quality of life is drastically different than living in
> an apartment so I consider that expense a wash. Am I wrong in
> justifying my purchase this way? Can anyone point out if my thinking
> is off on this?

The rule of thumb is that your house should rent for 1% of its
purchase price.

--
Ron

==============================================================================
TOPIC: $45us/pc H.I.D Conversion Kit
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fa00c095b81a2ef4?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 4:59 pm
From: paytonluo@126.com

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TOPIC: Designer Inspired Handbag Find One on Sale Designer Inspired Handbags
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d670235b5a2fe8c9?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 4:59 pm
From: swg4khpbqhsww7bdsncc@gmail.com

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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 5:53 pm
From: "Lou"

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OsOsj.375$ph.210@trnddc06...
>
> > I agree that the rated fuel consumption for motor vehicles is off - I
> > haven't averaged that low for at least 15 years. For instance, my car
is
> > rated 20/29 for city/highway - last week I averaged 33.2 mpg in about
440
> > miles of mixed driving according to the car's odometer and the reading
on
> > the pump when I gassed up on Friday evening. According the average
> > mileage
> > display on the dashboard of the car, I got 34.1 mpg, and I suppose the
> > difference could be due to the attendant (no self service gas in NJ)
> > filling
> > the tank right up to the gas cap and/or inaccuracies in the pump or
> > odometer, or even simply to the fact that I fill up the tank at the end
of
> > the day (when the car and the gas is at its warmest) but do about half
my
> > driving in the morning (when the gas is the coolest). Which means
simply
> > that a full measured gallon on a Friday afternoon is probably less than
a
> > gallon on Monday morning simply due to the expansion and contraction
that
> > go
> > with changes in temperature.
> >
> >
>
> The expansion and contraction based on temperature for a volume as small
as
> a tank of fuel in a car are so tiny that you'd never be able to measure
them
> with anything around the house, and certainly not the odometer in your
car.
> The fuel temperature varies over a range of perhaps 60F max, usually much
> less.

Well, maybe I'm calculating wrong. There's an approximately 3% difference
between what I calculate as my miles per gallon for last week and what the
car calculated. The coefficient of expansion of gasoline is 0.069% per
Fahrenheit degree. Coincidentally, over a 30 degree temperature difference,
that's between a 2% and a 3% change in volume. For 15 gallons of gas, that
comes somewhere between 3 and 4 ounces of gas.

The meter on the pump reads out several digits to the right of the decimal
point - it appears that this level of accuracy is available at the gas
station. The odometer reads out only to the tenth of a mile, which means
that I don't have the accuracy at my end to calculate this by hand. I don't
know what the internal accuracy is when the car computes average miles per
gallon - I presume the fuel pump knows pretty precisely how much gas it's
pumped, and the odometer measures distance covered by counting revolutions
of something (one of the wheels?), and it seems reasonable that the internal
accuracy of the car's computation is more than adequate to notice a
difference of this magnitude.

I guess the other consideration is that the car is likely computing average
mpg using the gas burned (or at least, pumped to the engine) while any by
hand calculation is basing it on gas bought, and any difference the fill
level will throw the result off. Last week, the attendant took great pains
to fill the tank right up to the brim (he was evidently trying to get the
total to come out to a whole dollar amount), something that usually doesn't
happen. So I have no problem believing that I bought slightly more gas than
I burned.

Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to me
that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's seemed
that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 6:07 pm
From: Tony Hwang

Lou wrote:
> "James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OsOsj.375$ph.210@trnddc06...
>
>>>I agree that the rated fuel consumption for motor vehicles is off - I
>>>haven't averaged that low for at least 15 years. For instance, my car
>
> is
>
>>>rated 20/29 for city/highway - last week I averaged 33.2 mpg in about
>
> 440
>
>>>miles of mixed driving according to the car's odometer and the reading
>
> on
>
>>>the pump when I gassed up on Friday evening. According the average
>>>mileage
>>>display on the dashboard of the car, I got 34.1 mpg, and I suppose the
>>>difference could be due to the attendant (no self service gas in NJ)
>>>filling
>>>the tank right up to the gas cap and/or inaccuracies in the pump or
>>>odometer, or even simply to the fact that I fill up the tank at the end
>
> of
>
>>>the day (when the car and the gas is at its warmest) but do about half
>
> my
>
>>>driving in the morning (when the gas is the coolest). Which means
>
> simply
>
>>>that a full measured gallon on a Friday afternoon is probably less than
>
> a
>
>>>gallon on Monday morning simply due to the expansion and contraction
>
> that
>
>>>go
>>>with changes in temperature.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The expansion and contraction based on temperature for a volume as small
>
> as
>
>>a tank of fuel in a car are so tiny that you'd never be able to measure
>
> them
>
>>with anything around the house, and certainly not the odometer in your
>
> car.
>
>>The fuel temperature varies over a range of perhaps 60F max, usually much
>>less.
>
>
> Well, maybe I'm calculating wrong. There's an approximately 3% difference
> between what I calculate as my miles per gallon for last week and what the
> car calculated. The coefficient of expansion of gasoline is 0.069% per
> Fahrenheit degree. Coincidentally, over a 30 degree temperature difference,
> that's between a 2% and a 3% change in volume. For 15 gallons of gas, that
> comes somewhere between 3 and 4 ounces of gas.
>
> The meter on the pump reads out several digits to the right of the decimal
> point - it appears that this level of accuracy is available at the gas
> station. The odometer reads out only to the tenth of a mile, which means
> that I don't have the accuracy at my end to calculate this by hand. I don't
> know what the internal accuracy is when the car computes average miles per
> gallon - I presume the fuel pump knows pretty precisely how much gas it's
> pumped, and the odometer measures distance covered by counting revolutions
> of something (one of the wheels?), and it seems reasonable that the internal
> accuracy of the car's computation is more than adequate to notice a
> difference of this magnitude.
>
> I guess the other consideration is that the car is likely computing average
> mpg using the gas burned (or at least, pumped to the engine) while any by
> hand calculation is basing it on gas bought, and any difference the fill
> level will throw the result off. Last week, the attendant took great pains
> to fill the tank right up to the brim (he was evidently trying to get the
> total to come out to a whole dollar amount), something that usually doesn't
> happen. So I have no problem believing that I bought slightly more gas than
> I burned.
>
> Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to me
> that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's seemed
> that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>
>
Hi,
EPA figure is based on sea level wht IDEAL driving condition, weather,
road, wind, temp., etc.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 7:23 pm
From: "hallerb@aol.com"

> EPA figure is based on sea level wht IDEAL driving condition, weather,
> road, wind, temp., etc.

EPA numbers are bogus the worst were on vehicles like PRIUS.

tests always favor the manufacturer..........

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 14 2008 8:16 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:53:12 -0500, "Lou"
<lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to me
>that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's seemed
>that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>
Might be they don't account for your driving style. Might be
something else - not interested enough to look into it, but I'm
sure they lab test versus "real world."
Think you said you had an Impala, and the 3.1 engine coupled with the
GM lockup trans is an efficient combo. I consistently get 30-31 mpg
highway with mine ('97 Lumina) over a long stretch of varied terrain.
Measured by actual gas pumped into the tank over many thousands of
miles. My '88 Celebrity with the 2.8 did about 28 mpg, but always had
a heavier passenger load.

--Vic

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