Frugal Living: 24 new messages in 13 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: hai friends how are you?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b4f98a0cde4aef0c?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 12:45 am
From: "florencegeetha341@gmail.com"

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5777ed330e88580d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Quick basic advice on a dripping gas 40-gal hot-water heater
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e565eaf98e0e70b6?hl=en
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== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 2:50 am
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>>Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to
>>me
>>that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's
>>seemed
>>that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>>
> Might be they don't account for your driving style. Might be
> something else - not interested enough to look into it, but I'm
> sure they lab test versus "real world."

The news 2008 figures take real life into consideration and are much closer
to reality. Previous figures were ideal lab conditions.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 3:12 am
From: "Only Just"

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:E7etj.6146$xq2.2565@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to
>>>me
>>>that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's
>>>seemed
>>>that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>>>
>> Might be they don't account for your driving style. Might be
>> something else - not interested enough to look into it, but I'm
>> sure they lab test versus "real world."
>
>
> The news 2008 figures take real life into consideration and are much
> closer to reality. Previous figures were ideal lab conditions.
>

It all points down to the fact that average Joe citizen can't tell the
difference unless he can find out exactly how they take all these
measurements (The method used and exactly what figures) that each company
used and how (If they did) manipulated those figures to get the result as
they publish. The main thing that the Government is interested in is a
standard across the relevant industry so everyone can make a comparison.
Justy.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 3:40 am
From: trader4@optonline.net

On Feb 15, 6:12 am, "Only Just" <ifixit2@hotmail(dot)com> wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
>
> news:E7etj.6146$xq2.2565@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Vic Smith" <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >>>Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to
> >>>me
> >>>that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's
> >>>seemed
> >>>that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>
> >> Might be they don't account for your driving style. Might be
> >> something else - not interested enough to look into it, but I'm
> >> sure they lab test versus "real world."
>
> > The news 2008 figures take real life into consideration and are much
> > closer to reality. Previous figures were ideal lab conditions.
>
> It all points down to the fact that average Joe citizen can't tell the
> difference unless he can find out exactly how they take all these
> measurements (The method used and exactly what figures) that each company
> used and how (If they did) manipulated those figures to get the result as
> they publish. The main thing that the Government is interested in is a
> standard across the relevant industry so everyone can make a comparison.
> Justy.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The tests are performed by independent labs to the EPA test procedures
and standards. It's not up to the maufacturers to decide how to
test, nor can they manipulate the results for the cars. Same thing
for the water heaters.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:43 am
From: "hallerb@aol.com"

-
>
> The tests are performed by independent labs to the EPA test procedures
> and standards. � It's not up to the maufacturers to decide how to
> test, nor can they manipulate the results for the cars. � Same thing
> for the water heaters.- Hide quoted text -
>

no the manufactuers knowing the test procedures tweak the product to
look as good as possible

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:45 am
From: N8N

On Feb 14, 11:16 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:53:12 -0500, "Lou"
>
> <lpogodajr292...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to me
> >that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's seemed
> >that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>
> Might be they don't account for your driving style. Might be
> something else - not interested enough to look into it, but I'm
> sure they lab test versus "real world."
> Think you said you had an Impala, and the 3.1 engine coupled with the
> GM lockup trans is an efficient combo. I consistently get 30-31 mpg
> highway with mine ('97 Lumina) over a long stretch of varied terrain.
> Measured by actual gas pumped into the tank over many thousands of
> miles. My '88 Celebrity with the 2.8 did about 28 mpg, but always had
> a heavier passenger load.
>
> --Vic

It is HEAVILY dependent on driving style. In daily commuting (DC
traffic, lots of accelerating/slowing down) I get horrible mileage but
I too was getting about 30 MPG over the holidays, driving back and
forth to visit my parents (90% highway) same drivetrain as you, '05
Impala, 3.1/auto.

nate

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 6:02 am
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:45:10 -0800 (PST), N8N <njnagel@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 14, 11:16 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:53:12 -0500, "Lou"
>>
>> <lpogodajr292...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to me
>> >that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's seemed
>> >that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>>
>> Might be they don't account for your driving style. Might be
>> something else - not interested enough to look into it, but I'm
>> sure they lab test versus "real world."
>> Think you said you had an Impala, and the 3.1 engine coupled with the
>> GM lockup trans is an efficient combo. I consistently get 30-31 mpg
>> highway with mine ('97 Lumina) over a long stretch of varied terrain.
>> Measured by actual gas pumped into the tank over many thousands of
>> miles. My '88 Celebrity with the 2.8 did about 28 mpg, but always had
>> a heavier passenger load.
>>
>> --Vic
>
>It is HEAVILY dependent on driving style. In daily commuting (DC
>traffic, lots of accelerating/slowing down) I get horrible mileage but
>I too was getting about 30 MPG over the holidays, driving back and
>forth to visit my parents (90% highway) same drivetrain as you, '05
>Impala, 3.1/auto.
>
>nate

Think you're the Nate from long ago r.a.d. days. As I recall you were
a Chrysler fan. What caused you to go to the dark side? (-:

--Vic

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 6:34 am
From: N8N

On Feb 15, 9:02 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:45:10 -0800 (PST), N8N <njna...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Feb 14, 11:16 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
> >wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:53:12 -0500, "Lou"
>
> >> <lpogodajr292...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> >Whichever figure is right and whatever the explanation, it still seems to me
> >> >that the mileage estimates published by the EPA are too low, and it's seemed
> >> >that way ever since I started paying attention (way too many years ago).
>
> >> Might be they don't account for your driving style. Might be
> >> something else - not interested enough to look into it, but I'm
> >> sure they lab test versus "real world."
> >> Think you said you had an Impala, and the 3.1 engine coupled with the
> >> GM lockup trans is an efficient combo. I consistently get 30-31 mpg
> >> highway with mine ('97 Lumina) over a long stretch of varied terrain.
> >> Measured by actual gas pumped into the tank over many thousands of
> >> miles. My '88 Celebrity with the 2.8 did about 28 mpg, but always had
> >> a heavier passenger load.
>
> >> --Vic
>
> >It is HEAVILY dependent on driving style. In daily commuting (DC
> >traffic, lots of accelerating/slowing down) I get horrible mileage but
> >I too was getting about 30 MPG over the holidays, driving back and
> >forth to visit my parents (90% highway) same drivetrain as you, '05
> >Impala, 3.1/auto.
>
> >nate
>
> Think you're the Nate from long ago r.a.d. days. As I recall you were
> a Chrysler fan. What caused you to go to the dark side? (-:
>
> --Vic

I still post there occasionally, but a lot of the intelligent regulars
have left and a lot of idiots and trolls have moved in :( The Impala
is a company provided vehicle, I don't have any MoPars at the moment
as my old Dart was a complete beater and not worth restoring, and
prices of good ones are rising. I do have a Porsche 944 that I bought
as a daily beater before I got a job with a company car, and my "real"
car is a '55 Studebaker - just as bulletproof as a MoPar, but
apparently not as collectible yet, so prices are still reasonable. Of
course, it's still somewhat apart after I lost my mind after a simple
gasket replacement turned into a drivetrain replacement...

nate

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 7:33 am
From: trader4@optonline.net

On Feb 15, 8:43 am, "hall...@aol.com" <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> -
>
>
>
> > The tests are performed by independent labs to the EPA test procedures
> > and standards. � It's not up to the maufacturers to decide how to
> > test, nor can they manipulate the results for the cars. � Same thing
> > for the water heaters.- Hide quoted text -
>
> no the manufactuers knowing the test procedures tweak the product to
> look as good as possible

Yes, some of that can certainly be going on. But trying to change
the design of the product slightly to come out better in the standard
EPA test is a lot different than claiming the tests themselves are not
uniform because the manufacturer gets to decide the test method, how
the test is done, etc, and then manipulates the results they publish.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 7:38 am
From: "hallerb@aol.com"

On Feb 15, 10:33 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> On Feb 15, 8:43 am, "hall...@aol.com" <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > -
>
> > > The tests are performed by independent labs to the EPA test procedures
> > > and standards. � It's not up to the maufacturers to decide how to
> > > test, nor can they manipulate the results for the cars. � Same thing
> > > for the water heaters.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > no the manufactuers knowing the test procedures tweak the product to
> > look as good as possible
>
> Yes, some of that can certainly be going on. But trying to change
> the design of the product slightly to come out better in the standard
> EPA test is a lot different than claiming the tests themselves are not
> uniform because the manufacturer gets to decide the test method, how
> the test is done, etc, and then manipulates the results they publish.

well everyone knew the old tests werent valid yet it took many years
to get them changed

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 8:05 am
From: dpb

hallerb@aol.com wrote:
...
> well everyone knew the old tests werent valid yet it took many years
> to get them changed

Which old tests weren't valid, specifically? And why?

That they weren't necessarily representative of average driving doesn't
mean they were "invalid tests"; it simply means they were of value only
as comparative to each other for those circumstances. Assuming you're
talking of the previous EPA Standard tests, that's no different than the
current tests--only the test conditions have changed, nothing about the
administration or control of the test data, etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sorta Off Topic - Looking For Ideas...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/74df284a95a4127a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 3:54 am
From: "Joe"

I know the connotation of frugal means spending less, etc... But sometimes
I see it as making more.

I am organizing a charity event this summer and someone has donated a
$5-6000 motorcycle for us to use as we see fit.

I don't want to simply sell it on eBay, etc. I'd like to raffle it off...
But the charity I'm working with doesn't really support raffles because of
their gambling-like nature.

Any other ideas on how to give it away to a random winner while making money
for the charity and not have it be gambling? You guys are creative so I
thought I'd ask...

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 4:20 am
From: Anthony Matonak

Joe wrote:
...
> I am organizing a charity event this summer and someone has donated a
> $5-6000 motorcycle for us to use as we see fit.
>
> I don't want to simply sell it on eBay, etc. I'd like to raffle it off...
> But the charity I'm working with doesn't really support raffles because of
> their gambling-like nature.
>
> Any other ideas on how to give it away to a random winner while making money
> for the charity and not have it be gambling?

You could auction it off at a charity event. If you do it right, you can
make money on the event itself in addition to the auction.

You could offer it as a prize in some kind of contest, race or other
entertainment. You make your money by charging folks to enter, to watch,
by selling food, pledges on folks completing and so forth.

You could get it on the Tonight Show and have all Leno's guests sign it
and then put it up on Ebay. If you can't get Leno, you might try some
other talk show or local news broadcast. :)

Getting a local artist to donate a custom paint job or a local shop to
add custom parts can help increase its value.

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: foeign girls & tamil acters blue flim
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a9643c891c982eff?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Get Paid to Play
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/058ccb80e47f9707?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:24 am
From: clams_casino

SpiveyBusiness@gmail.com wrote:

>I ran across this recently. let me know what you think:
>
>
I think you are a scum sucking spammer promoting your own scam.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Was my home purchase in 2006 frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9d0f58de213b13b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:33 am
From: clams_casino

Lou wrote:

>"Joe" <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:dd07afed-9e4e-49b7-a94a-515efe282466@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>I just read this article detailing how home prices in the Northeast
>>dropped 4.8% from 2006-2007. I purchased my home in Aug 2006 and knew
>>prices were going to drop but our situation left me very little choice
>>so I justified my purchase at the time thinking the worst case
>>scenario is that my house value will drop around 5% a year, well it
>>did, but I still figure that I'm ahead of the game considering 5% of
>>my purchase price is still less than I would have paid in rent for
>>2007. That money would have been thrown away never to be seen again
>>anyway. Now I know I am still on the hook for taxes and upkeep of the
>>house but my quality of life is drastically different than living in
>>an apartment so I consider that expense a wash. Am I wrong in
>>justifying my purchase this way? Can anyone point out if my thinking
>>is off on this?
>>
>>
>
>I think you're wrong in even thinking about it until, when, and if the
>occasion arises where you again must make a choice to buy a house or not.
>What's done is done, you can't go back and not buy the house, and fretting
>over past mistakes or gloating over past triumphs won't change the present
>and say nothing about the future.
>
>For what it's worth, I bought my present house a little over 18 years ago,
>at pretty near the top of the last real estate cycle, and within a year the
>market price of the house had dropped around 20%. If I had sold within a
>year or two of buying, I would have taken a beating, but I didn't and prices
>recovered and then some even before the recent boom.
>
>One result of that experience is that I don't see that a price drop of 5% is
>any big deal - maybe tough on someone who bought recently and must sell for
>whatever reason, but in terms of normal market fluctuations no big deal.
>
>Do you like living there more than your last rental? Is the after tax cost
>more, or less, or the same than it would be if you were a renter instead?
>If you can answer yes to the first and less or the same to the second, you
>have all the justification you should need. Even if the answer to the
>second is more, you still have all the justification you need provided
>you're not having problems paying the bills.
>
>
>
>
Reminds me of my first home. When I bought during the high inflation /
recession mid 70's, everyone though we were nuts - especially to have
6% mortgage. That home doubled in price within 7 years - one of my
better investments (sold it in 81 to someone glad to find a 16% mortgage).

It's probably not wise to justify a home solely on investment. If
investment is your primary objective, you are probably not ready for
home ownership. There will always be more costs than you can ever
anticipate.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get USB boom mic headset over analog?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e83855c8e1f36cba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 8:42 am
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>me@privacy.net wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for a good boom mic headset to use with either
>> a desktop or laptop for such things as Skype, chat, and
>> even voice recognition software such as Dragon Dictate.
>
>> Should one get a USB based model over the standard analog model?
>
>I did for that, and havent had any regrets.
>
>Havent tried it with voice recognition tho.
>

Ok well Plantronics is having a blow out on some of
their analog models. found this on slickdeals.net

http://www.plantronics.com/clearance/en_US/catalog/display_category_type.jhtml?id=cat6100035

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 8:42 am
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Should one get a USB based model over the standard analog model?
>
>I did for that, and havent had any regrets.

What brand/model did you get Rod?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Life span of heating system?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3be3b7e9d211514b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:06 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

How hot does the air have to be, before it goes into the furnace? Can a
furnace heat cold air, too?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:sOqdnUN-kv-GajDanZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@comcast.com...

First, a furnace heats hot air. It sounds like you are describing a hot
water boiler. A lot depends on the quality of the boiler. Better boilers
are made from cast iron but even some cheaper brands use steel push
nipples instead of cast iron which tend to rot out. So one brand/model
may go a lot longer than another in the same service.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dollar Tree, Victor NY, worst customer service ever
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/afd0336a0edfead1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 15 2008 9:03 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

It wasn't just the three minutes. It was the "cat that ate the bird" look,
and it became obvious he was abusing his position.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:13r8n9khqldrdac@corp.supernews.com...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> I don't know your def'n of "so far nothing". But I did talk with the store
> manager, and this morning a rep from the regional office called.
>
> What's so intolerant about reporting bad service? I didn't ask if he was
> Catholic, and then try to shoot him.
>
Aren't we talking of firing some kid over using 3 minutes or so of
your time? I just don't see the return on investment. If a waitress kept
you waiting 3 minutes you wouldn't call the regional manager. Just
seems to me that you have a short fuse.

Jeff

==============================================================================

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Friday, February 15, 2008

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