Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

Wednesday, February 13, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: the biggest wholesale market
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/70e50fa21330ddf1?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 8:06 am
From: huangcba7@gmail.com

http://2008resource.photo.163.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: rotary shaver heads sharpened and adjusted. (save $$)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6345c606b140b75a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 8:10 am
From: sance_re@hotmail.com

Sharpening service including all Norelco models. One third to one
fourth the price of new heads.

email: sance_re@hotmail.com for price and
mailing information.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Quick basic advice on a dripping gas 40-gal hot-water heater
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e565eaf98e0e70b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 8:16 am
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:44:15 -0500, ng_reader wrote:
> I did want to read more, and not sure if I saw it or not,
> but why the quick Nay to the tankless design?
> Did anyone provide a credible counter-argument?

You can decide if it's credible but a counter argument to tankless home
water heater selection is here

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Longevity/the-right-hot-water-heater.html

That web site also provides nice selection and installation advice (with
pictures!) for all hot water heaters, including those with tanks and
tankless.

Donna

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 8:34 am
From: "hallerb@aol.com"

FOR ME I bought a 50 gallon tank since it was the largest that would
fit, with a high output burner to minimize running out of hot water,
the warranty is on high output tanks is 7 years. could of got a 12
year tank but I prefered more hot water over longer warranty which is
generally pro rated anyway and replacement usually based on list price
rather than sale price.

sometimes a tank on sale is cheaper than the same tank warranty
replaced.

minor $$$ savings are just that minor, like some fret buying a new
tank, to me its a low enough cost, like one candy bar a week who
cares,

bottom line i just want lots of nice hot water. costs are way below in
priority

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 8:52 am
From: "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:34:00 -0800 (PST), hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> the warranty on high output tanks is 7 years. could of got a 12
> year tank but I prefered more hot water over longer warranty which is
> generally pro rated anyway and replacement usually based on list price
> rather than sale price.

Just to be clear, my research indicates ALL warranties (at least all those
from Sears, Home Depot, and Lowes) are really only 1 year labor.

I don't know about you, but, it's not likely I'll be disconnecting my water
heater and bringing it to the manufacturer after that one year is up.

May I ask a "real" question?

Given installation is about the same price as the home water heater itself,
what do you get for that vaunted 12 year warranty after the first year?

Sure, they'll replace it for free ... but it costs as much to replace as it
did to buy so ... tell me please (I'm not being fascesious) ...

WHAT does the warranty *really* buy you after the first year is up?

Donna

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 9:22 am
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:09:01 +0000, James Sweet wrote:

>
> "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> message news:SOvsj.404$Mh2.256@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:02:20 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>> Permits can very , but probably closer to $25 if you actually get one.
>>
>> You must get a plumbing permit in my town:
>> Home Depot charges $77
>> Lowes charges almost $90
>> Sears charges $95 for that same permit.
>>
>> The overall installation fee (includes all sans tax & straps) is:
>> $400 Home Depot 877-467-0542
>> $410 Lowes 877-465-6937
>> $433 Sears 800-877-6420
>>
>> What would a typical plumber have charged for the permit and installation?
>>
>> Donna
>
> Jeez.
>
> I'd feel like I was ripping someone off if I charged more than 100 bucks to
> install a water heater, but then I'm not licensed or bonded so I don't do
> this for random people, but still, last one I did took less than an hour,
> it's literally 3 threaded pipes and a flue vent.
>
> Best way to find out what a plumber charges is to call one.

Most plumber wont even park in your driveway for less than 80 bucks.

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 9:44 am
From: "James Sweet"

"Meat Plow" <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote in message
news:1krui6.70d.19.2@news.alt.net...
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:09:01 +0000, James Sweet wrote:
>
>>
>> "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>> in
>> message news:SOvsj.404$Mh2.256@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:02:20 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Permits can very , but probably closer to $25 if you actually get one.
>>>
>>> You must get a plumbing permit in my town:
>>> Home Depot charges $77
>>> Lowes charges almost $90
>>> Sears charges $95 for that same permit.
>>>
>>> The overall installation fee (includes all sans tax & straps) is:
>>> $400 Home Depot 877-467-0542
>>> $410 Lowes 877-465-6937
>>> $433 Sears 800-877-6420
>>>
>>> What would a typical plumber have charged for the permit and
>>> installation?
>>>
>>> Donna
>>
>> Jeez.
>>
>> I'd feel like I was ripping someone off if I charged more than 100 bucks
>> to
>> install a water heater, but then I'm not licensed or bonded so I don't do
>> this for random people, but still, last one I did took less than an hour,
>> it's literally 3 threaded pipes and a flue vent.
>>
>> Best way to find out what a plumber charges is to call one.
>
> Most plumber wont even park in your driveway for less than 80 bucks.
>

That's one reason I've never called a plumber. I know most of them aren't
getting rich, but still. I've been doing everything myself for so long that
I forget sometimes just how much it saves.

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 9:51 am
From: "James Sweet"

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:ofFsj.8363$0o7.5691@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:34:00 -0800 (PST), hallerb@aol.com wrote:
>> the warranty on high output tanks is 7 years. could of got a 12
>> year tank but I prefered more hot water over longer warranty which is
>> generally pro rated anyway and replacement usually based on list price
>> rather than sale price.
>
> Just to be clear, my research indicates ALL warranties (at least all those
> from Sears, Home Depot, and Lowes) are really only 1 year labor.
>
> I don't know about you, but, it's not likely I'll be disconnecting my
> water
> heater and bringing it to the manufacturer after that one year is up.
>
> May I ask a "real" question?
>
> Given installation is about the same price as the home water heater
> itself,
> what do you get for that vaunted 12 year warranty after the first year?
>
> Sure, they'll replace it for free ... but it costs as much to replace as
> it
> did to buy so ... tell me please (I'm not being fascesious) ...
>
> WHAT does the warranty *really* buy you after the first year is up?
>
> Donna

Well if I understand this right, when you buy the heater you pay for the
heater, plus you pay for the installation. For a warranty replacement you
pay for the installation, does that not save you the cost of the heater?

My line of thought is that a unit with a longer warranty is likely built
better, with better quality components, and thus likely to last longer.
Whether this is universally true I can't say, however last time I looked at
them, the 12 year warranty heaters did have a nicer fit & finish than the 6
year models, and the price difference was very small. I'll replace it myself
if it ever fails, and I'm sure it will outlast the warranty with the soft
water we have here, but if it's a higher quality unit I'm willing to pay for
that.

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 11:17 am
From: 58plumbers@gmail.com

> Sears 33154 (marketed as Kenmore but made by AO Smith) FHR=97 EF=0.63
> (41,045 btu/0.63)($1.21106/therm * 1 therm/100,000 btu) x 365 = $288/year
>
> Home Depot 183-717 (marketed as GE but made by Rheem) FHR=80 EF=0.58
> (41,045 btu/0.58)($1.21106/therm * 1 therm/100,000 btu) x 365 = $313/year

I read the article you referenced at
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Longevity/water-heater-preventive-maintenance.html

It doesn't say WHERE the 41,045 BTU number cames from.

What is this "magic" number of 41,045 BTU?

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 10:37 am
From: "Bob Shuman"

Tank size is very important and cannot be completely disregarded since it
provides the reserve capacity. It is this the tank's storage capacity, in
conjunction with the burner size and the EF factor that determines the FHR
rating, which determines how much "hot" water you will get before it is
considered simply "warm" water. The storage capacity is also very important
in regards to determining the physical dimensions of the tank. (I has to
fit in the space allowed and the height and spacing of the exhaust flue,
water inlet, water outlet and gas inlet will be dependent on the tank's
size.)

I already posted my thoughts on warranty as well in a previous reply. The
bottom line here is you certainly know more than enough to make an informed
choice.

Bob

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:yCDsj.1050$fX7.101@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 05:34:49 -0800 (PST), hallerb@aol.com wrote:
>> bottom line provided you buy a large enough heater the other
>> differences are minor,
>
> Hi Hallerb,
>
> I agree the whole point is to buy a "large enough heater"; the only thing
> I'm saying about that is "large enough" has almost nothing directly to do
> with tank size. Certainly it has nothing to do with warranty.
> Donna

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 11:28 am
From: 58plumbers@gmail.com

On Feb 13, 12:46 am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
<donna....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Does this calculation look right to you?
> 240 therms/year * 1 year/41,045,000 btu * 100,000 btu/1 therm = .58
>
> The part of the math that escapes me is why this calculation uses 1,000
> times the BTUs per year than the previous calculations. Any idea?

Why do you use 41,045 BTU in one calculation when you have the EF in
hand and 41,045,000 BTU in the reverse calculation when you're trying
to determine the EF?

What is this "magic" number 41.045 anyway?

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 11:33 am
From: "Bob Shuman"

If you do self installation, like most of the audience on your target
newsgroups, then the warranty means a big deal. If you pay someone to
install, then it may not be as important, especially if the design,
materials, and construction quality is identical.

Bob

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:ofFsj.8363$0o7.5691@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...

> Just to be clear, my research indicates ALL warranties (at least all those
> from Sears, Home Depot, and Lowes) are really only 1 year labor.
>
> I don't know about you, but, it's not likely I'll be disconnecting my
> water
> heater and bringing it to the manufacturer after that one year is up.
>
> May I ask a "real" question?
>
> Given installation is about the same price as the home water heater
> itself,
> what do you get for that vaunted 12 year warranty after the first year?
>
> Sure, they'll replace it for free ... but it costs as much to replace as
> it
> did to buy so ... tell me please (I'm not being fascesious) ...
>
> WHAT does the warranty *really* buy you after the first year is up?
>
> Donna

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 11:53 am
From: 58plumbers@gmail.com

> I read the article you referenced athttp://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Longevity/wat...
>
> It doesn't say WHERE the 41,045 BTU number cames from.
>
> What is this "magic" number of 41,045 BTU?

Wrong reference.
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/images/DayAndNight3.jpg

The right reference is
http://www.gamanet.org/gama/inforesources.nsf/vContentEntries/Product+Directories?OpenDocument

The document that has that calculation is
http://www.gamanet.org/gama/inforesources.nsf/vAttachmentLaunch/C2AAFB8D41D003F485256E9000607F66/$FILE/12-07-gas-rwh.pdf

But it still doesn't say where the "magic" 41,045 BTU comes from.

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 11:54 am
From: "hallerb@aol.com"

having only 1 heater leak before the warranty ran out, and as far as i
know its still a pro rata warranty....

number of installed months, vs number of warranteed months, gives a
percentage, thats then applied to a brand new similiar heater at full
list price

on that one heater the sale price was less than the pro rata price,
kinda mad i bought my new one somewhere else........

warrantys are sales tools, they rarely help the purchaser much. wheres
your original invoice? company like sears might no longer be in
business in 8 years.........

just look at all the retailers who have goine out of business over the
years.....

a warranty from builders square or hechinger isnt worth the paper its
written on........

the BTU # is from the manufacturer, they vary from under 30,000 BTU to
75,000 BTU on my current tank.

higher btus cost more to build, better stronger burner and heavier
tank to take the added heat.

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 12:47 pm
From: 58plumbers@gmail.com

On Feb 13, 11:54 am, "hall...@aol.com" <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> the BTU # is from the manufacturer, they vary from under 30,000 BTU to
> 75,000 BTU on my current tank.

I can't say that I know what the 41,045 BTU is in the calculation but
it can't be different for different gas burners because it's the same
number no matter what gas heater you use.

So it must be some kind of other "magic" number.

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 3:34 pm
From: "Only Just"

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:isDsj.931$fX7.433@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:14:39 +1100, Only Just wrote:
>> This is all very good but can you trust the figures given by the
>> manufacturers as these are often derived by engineer calculations and
>> marketing guru's and are manipulated to suit their agenda.
>
> Hi Only Just,
>
> I *think* you *can* trust these numbers (FHR & ER) ... but I'm just going
> by the written facts. You have the experience I don't have.
>
> The facts are that there are *independent* labs paid to *verify* that
> these
> FHR and ER numbers are accurate, for example, OSHA recognizes ITSNA whose
> numbers I quoted throughout the latter half of this thread.
>
> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=16637&p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER
>
> Gama says, as of December 12, 2007, "Intertek Testing Services of
> Cortland,
> New York (http://www.intertek.com/) has been retained as the program
> administrator and *independent* testing laboratory responsible for
> conducting efficiency *verification* tests on water heaters" (emphasis
> mine).
>
> If Intertek is truly "independent", and if they do randomly select units
> as
> their product literature says, then I think you *can* trust these numbers.
>
> Donna

The reason I brought up about the tests is that I have been informed that
the manufactures of refrigerators here in Aus have been using "Energy Star"
ratings for quite a while, The way they now measure these results is also
based on "Peak" start-up current so now the manufactures stagger the start
of all the motors in a refrig, eg, compressor starts then after a set period
the inner fan will start then the outside fan will start thus reducing that
start-up peak so it "Reduces" the energy rating so making it a more
desirable unit for the "Greenies" and the power saving conscious people but
only hiding the true power consumed, Also there has been numerous letters
written into the newspaper tech here about people not getting the same fuel
economy in their new vehicle that they bought and the result that they were
replied to was that they are only figures supplied by the manufacturer that
some test results came up with so they can compare different vehicles as set
by an industry standard. Remember that these tests are designed by the
industry and no matter who carries out the same tests providing that they
are using the same standards and criteria they will also receive the same
results to match.
Justy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can't pay? Just walk away.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5a07413ffe1cd66b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 10:24 am
From: Foobar

On Feb 12, 2:27 am, no-s...@sonic.net (Fake ID) wrote:
> In article <0lt1r3t7b2f0a81cumrpaiqndkh1kug...@4ax.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:24:46 -0800 (PST), Foobar
> ><bamberb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Feb 7, 1:22 pm, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:29:18 -0600, Snowbound
>
> >>> <loosebow...@ixnay.invalid> wrote:
> >>> >Just don't declare bankruptcy, like someone in real financial trouble
> >>> >might consider. If you declare bankruptcy, like some joker who lost
> >>> >everything to unforseen disaster or illness, you are putting yourself at
> >>> >the mercy of courts and banks (who make today's bankruptcy laws). If you
> >>> >just walk away from a massivemortgageYOU freely chose, you get off
> >>> >scott free, without any substantial penalty! After all, what
> >>> >asset-draining cancer or chronic workplace injury could POSSIBLY be
> >>> >worse than losing a home you couldn't afford in the first place?
>
> >>> This sounds good. The most logical part is the lender who made that
> >>> unjustifiably risky loan to Mr. J Doe will lilkely disappear as a
> >>> corporate entity before they catch up with Mr. Doe who walked away
> >>> from his foreclosed house. Whichever new company that takes over the
> >>> property will likely find it impossible or just too costly to clear
> >>> the paperwork necessary to track down John Doe the walker and make him
> >>> pay. There will be a few millions of such foreclosures that
> >willtrashany industrywide attempt to clean them up.
>
> >>Which is a good thing?
>
> >In normal situations there is enough of a paper trail to track you
> >down anywhere in the country. So you have to declare bankruptcy (the
> >new rules I don't know about but its no longer easy to declare it) and
> >your credit rating goes to hell.
>
> >But in this subprime crisis the banking system isn't sure who actually
> >holds the original mortgage, who holds the invertment to a bundle of
> >these original mortages, who is the third party (bank or financial
> >institution) that had lent to the secondary party who held the
> >bundled mortages to the original mortgage. And this can cascade into
> >the fourth or fifth tier. If you can't follow the connections so far
> >neither can the banks and the financial institutions. The original
> >one million dollar bundle of mortages may have generated another four
> >to five millions if not more in secondary market..
>
> A small ray of hope.http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20071115/WIRE/711150413
> At least there's one judge who stood up to financial institutions to
> make them follow the law. Until this article I hadn't been aware that
> it was customary for courts to let foreclosing entities foreclose
> without providing proof of ownership as required by law.
>
> m- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ah, yup, ok. But you still don't own the property and you'll still
have to walk away from it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 1:19 pm
From: Foobar

It's a very interesting article. Problematic, but interesting.

So, who owns the property?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Coupon and Freebie Website
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18053d9c2655a2ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 11:46 am
From: crystalb@totalconceptsofdesign.com

Stop in and take a look around.

http://www.crystalscoupons.com

updated weekly

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Extreme Roadster For Sale - Dodge Viper
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5df4d5d76daecc93?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 11:57 am
From: Snowbound

In article
<414b2cb1-fddb-455a-a43e-b4a20f4ffe3e@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
stan@royal.net wrote:

> Dodge Viper SRT-10 Information
>
> Miles Per Gallon: 10/20 mpg
> Curb Weight: 3380 lbs
> Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
> Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
>
> Engine
>
> Type: V10
> Displacement: 8277 cc
> Horsepower: 500 bhp # 5600 rpm
> Torque: 525 lb-ft # 4600 rpm
> Redline: 6000 rpm
>
> Performance
>
> 0-60 mph: 3.8 sec
> 0-100 mph: 8.9 sec
> Quarter Mile: 11.9 sec # 122 mph
> Skidpad: 1.15g
> Top Speed: 190+ mph
> Braking, 60-0 mph: under 100 ft
> Slalom Speed: 70 mph
>
> The Dodge Viper SRT 10 2004 sportscar include rarely the top terms in
> racing comfort with its over 500 hp (8,3L). The superiority thereby is
> to be meet in conditions as that connecting this one of the race
> motorsport, as well from which most modern technology reaches the
> highest points designed specifically with a wide spectra of
> requirements for quality. A specification describing a strained chassi
> with the beautiful sports coupe edition with all power options. An
> exceptionally nice inside and outside hard to find pre-owned awesome
> and outstanding Dodge Viper SRT 10 together with all service records.
> This is a super sharp powerful roadster, a greatest performance
> absolutely perfect 6 speed real sportscar lover's true dream. Don't
> miss to own the best, and this is priced to sell.
>
> Giuen Holding Ltd.
> Leading-group on Industry Finance
> Mr Roger K. Olsson
> Goteborgsvagen 1.
> SE: 434 00 Kungsbacka
> Tel: 070-5474830
> Int: +46 (0) 705474830
> web: finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/cwmtrader/?yguid=319792783
> email: cwmtrader (@) inbox.com
> momail: 0705474830 (@) momail.se
>
> General info:
> http://www.allpar.com/cars/viper/2008-dodge-viper.html
>
> World's leading brands network:
> http://cwmgateway.blogspot.com/
>
> CWMTrader:
> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/cwmtrader/?yguid=319792783

I'll give you a nickel for it. It would make a nice planter in the front
yard.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WORK FROM WITH INTERNET .HOW?HER THE ANSWER
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/333887a9b2861b0a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 12:45 pm
From: "mezdek1@gmail.com"

http://glycoblug.webs.com/makemoneywithadsense.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UK Home Owner Loans - Loansuwant.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/12ad0dec426d48e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 1:56 pm
From: "kenny.mcgrill@googlemail.com"

UK Home Owner Loans - Loansuwant.com

http://www.loansuwant.com/homeownerloans.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: for chickpea: hfcs info
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6db4b1c8ae41d4f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 3:30 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <voEsj.2489$YJ4.1254@trndny01>, AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>here's what i found:
>
>This form of fructose is metabolized differently converts to fat more than
>any other sugar.

Differently from other fructose? How?

>It does not stimulate insulin secretion or enhance leptin, both of which act
>as key signals in regulating how much food you eat and your bodyweight.
>
>Fructose in HFCS has no enzymes, vitamins or minerals, so it takes these
>micronutrients from your body while it assimilates itself for use.

The same is true for low fructose corn syrup and cane sugar.

> By comparison, other sources of fructose, such as fruit, do not create a
>problem for most people when used moderately (unless they already have
>insulin resistance), because they contain those micronutrients.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Driver
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f899b560aa190a67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 3:33 pm
From: jenkins419@gmail.com

Were would I find drivers for the emachine modem 56K ITU v.92-ready
Fax/Modem, Model T2742, check wedsite unable to get the drivers, does
anyone have them out there?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Find a Designer Handbag On Sale - Designer Handbags Sale Prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1a5d9cbfe579ebcf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 13 2008 4:16 pm
From: swg4khpbqhsww7bdsncc@gmail.com

A Designer Handbag Shows Good Taste

A designer handbag shows good taste, well at least this is the
commonly held wisdom of many women today. Many women in fact consider
a handbag to be a necessary part of their outfit, no matter what the
occasion. A handbag from Gucci, or Coach or one of the other brand
names that screams quality and individuality can definitely attract
the attention of fashion conscious women, and many of them are quite
particular about the type of handbags they will carry.

Designer Handbags on Sale at: All Brand Names, Save
Today!

CLICK HERE:

http://handbagsonsalenow.com/designer-handbag.html

Frugal Living

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008

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