Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 15 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: as seen on Oprah and 20/20
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/03ea73e3ae049002?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 6 2009 11:38 pm
From: em.block@yahoo.com

EARN EXTRA MONEY IN PAYPAL AS SEEN ON OPRAH AND 20/20

______________________________________...

Dear Friend,

You probably have seen these, but they really really do work, give it
a try -- think of how you waste $6 in a day, week or month. It's a
minor investment with great rewards. This might really help you pay
off those credit cards and give you the ability to move out.

If you could start your own mail order list with an investment of
$6.00, and make $800,000 over the next year would you do it? This is
sooooooo real!

_____________________________________

***Proven by various, highly-respected U.S. TV and Radio programs as
being 100% legal, feasible and true.***

***Oprah Winfrey and ABC's investigation team 20/20 also prove it can
be done.***

IF A 15 YEAR OLD BOY COULD MAKE $71,000 IN JUST 5 WEEKS AND OTHERS
$250,000 IN A FEW MORE WEEKS -- SO CAN YOU !!!

Would you like to make $71,000 OR $250,000 in a few weeks? As seen on
the Oprah Winfrey How to Make Money using Paypal? show and ABC's 20/20

======================================...

This program has gained such respectability and it is working so well,
that many people are now entering the program for a second and third
time.

Some are reporting they are earning enough money to give up their jobs
and they are spending just a few hours a day sending out e-mails.

======================================...

INSTRUCTIONS ON WHAT TO DO:

Some people will perceive this as an "off the wall" idea to make
money, but others will look at it as a great business opportunity.
This by far is the safest, most risk free opportunity you will find to
start your own business because you use Paypal, the most trusted
banking system on the internet. Not only is this an opportunity to
gain financial freedom, but you will help others do the same as they
help you. A basic principal that has been forgotten about - Giving to
one another.

This is a very simple opportunity. This is an even simpler automated
way to make money that does not require opening mail, only a Paypal
account.

* Create a Paypal account for free.

* Give six people $1.00. (Paypal IDs are listed below.)

* Post this opportunity to others on the internet.

* Other people create a Paypal account for free.

* Thousands of people give you $1.00 to be put on your mailing list.
(Once you add your Paypal ID.)

If we all work together everyone will benefit.

Here's how!

Paypal verifies that this $6 investment program is 100% legal and is a
big hit this year see their note below or ask them directly...

For a simple investment of 15-30 minutes and just $6, it is 100% worth
it to make thousands so quickly. This is not another scam that takes
lots of your hard earned money; this is a no risk investment that will
make you thousands of dollars very easily and quickly.

From PayPal:

"Dear Member, it has come to our attention that there is a Paypal
opportunity floating around at the moment you may have heard or seen
the $6 opportunity.

You may have even taken part in it well we have been asked a lot of
questions about this opportunity the answer is yes it does work and
yes it is safe to use providing you follow the rules it is legal and
has made a big hit on the internet this year.

If you would like to take part in this opportunity or would like a bit
more information then please see the attached file that was kindly
donated to us.

Thank you for using PayPal!"

This program is by no means new. It has been in existence in many
forms, including "snail mail" for at least a decade.

IMPORTANT:
This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it
is virtually no risk-it really works! If all of the following
instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends.

AGAIN, PLEASE NOTE:

Follow these directions EXACTLY, and $20,000 or more can be yours in 4
to 6 weeks.

This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity
of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering
to the instructions.

A FEW LEGAL TIPS:

You are starting a Mailing List. File your responses alphabetically
everyday. If you have a computer, all the better, if not get one with
your first mail responses. You will soon compile an extensive mailing
list. It can be very useful in your business, to start a new business,
or for other businesses to acquire information from you.

When you send out these letters, you are in the mail order business.
People are sending you $1.00 to be put on your mailing list. This is a
legal & helpful service.

Here are the 4 easy steps to success:

STEP 1:

Take a few minutes to join Paypal: Remember to verify your account.

.https://www.paypal.com/us/mrb/pal=7QN95LG63VN7U

The Internet's most trusted Internet banking system for your future
income.

When creating your Paypal account make email address you used for
Paypal on the list below so people can send money to your account.

STEP 2:

Once you have a Paypal account running, use Paypal to post $1 to EACH
of the 6 Email Addresses below because you pay people with an email
address in Paypal. Select "SEND MONEY".

To do this you may need to use a credit or debit card, which is very
easy, and secure so nobody but Paypal may see it.

What you are doing is creating a service. This is absolutely legal!
You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it!

Here are the 6 individual Email addresses that you have to send $1 to
through Paypal for this to work properly and for you to receive money.

(If you don't send the money and decide to post the message with your
name in it anyway, Paypal will instantly pick this up and terminate
your account, immediately, besides the other penalties!!) If you do
this, you will be committing the federal offense of fraud and could be
prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Now Send $1.00 to each of the six people on the list using Paypal, and
in the comment (Subject) section type "Please add me to your list".
Below are the emails that you transfer the money in

1.) hunk28500@hotmail.com
2.) sarah.lasater@gmail.com
3.) zumantha@yahoo.com
4.) csgbm5@verizon.net
5.) t6danie@gmail.com
6.) em.block@yahoo.com

STEP 3:

Now after sending $1.00 to each of the email placements above, take
the #1 Email Address off the list, move the other Email Addresses up
(6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) and add Your Email Address as number
6 on the list.

STEP 4:

Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to
the original as possible.

Now, post your amended article to at least 200 news groups (there are
thousands of groups).

And email your message to as many people you can. Remember, the more
you post and email the more money you make! This is perfectly legal!

You are getting paid for a service, the sender of the money asks you
to "Please add me to your list", Therefore it is legal. Remember to
send a dollar to the above names or this is considered illegal.

Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money,
you can use it again and again.

PLEASE REMEMBER

This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity
of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions.

You are simply paying into a money making chain of participants and if
the chain is broken you are screwing someone else out of their fair
share.

So, as each person who joins the family and the directions are
followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a
Mailing List Developer with one dollar each.

You then insert your Email Address into the list and it will move up
geometrically.

So that when your name reaches the #1 position you will have
potentially received thousands of dollars into your account!!!

What an opportunity for only a total of $6.00! $1 for each of the
first six people listed above.

To begin with, please send you're $1.00 to each email address listed
above then add your own Email Address to the list and you're in
business!

Please try this out..it could really help you or a friend out.

* Location: ANYWHERE
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other
commercial interests

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 1:15 am
From: hernz.tiru@gmail.com

On Jan 7, 3:38 pm, em.bl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> EARN EXTRA MONEY IN PAYPAL AS SEEN ON OPRAH AND 20/20
>
> ______________________________________...
>
> Dear Friend,
>
> You probably have seen these, but they really really do work, give it
> a try -- think of how you waste $6 in a day, week or month. It's a
> minor investment with great rewards. This might really help you pay
> off those credit cards and give you the ability to move out.
>
> If you could start your own mail order list with an investment of
> $6.00, and make $800,000 over the next year would you do it? This is
> sooooooo real!
>
> _____________________________________
>
> ***Proven by various, highly-respected U.S. TV and Radio programs as
> being 100% legal, feasible and true.***
>
> ***Oprah Winfrey and ABC's investigation team 20/20 also prove it can
> be done.***
>
> IF A 15 YEAR OLD BOY COULD MAKE $71,000 IN JUST 5 WEEKS AND OTHERS
> $250,000 IN A FEW MORE WEEKS -- SO CAN YOU !!!
>
> Would you like to make $71,000 OR $250,000 in a few weeks? As seen on
> the Oprah Winfrey How to Make Money using Paypal? show and ABC's 20/20
>
> ======================================...
>
> This program has gained such respectability and it is working so well,
> that many people are now entering the program for a second and third
> time.
>
> Some are reporting they are earning enough money to give up their jobs
> and they are spending just a few hours a day sending out e-mails.
>
> ======================================...
>
> INSTRUCTIONS ON WHAT TO DO:
>
> Some people will perceive this as an "off the wall" idea to make
> money, but others will look at it as a great business opportunity.
> This by far is the safest, most risk free opportunity you will find to
> start your own business because you use Paypal, the most trusted
> banking system on the internet. Not only is this an opportunity to
> gain financial freedom, but you will help others do the same as they
> help you. A basic principal that has been forgotten about - Giving to
> one another.
>
> This is a very simple opportunity. This is an even simpler automated
> way to make money that does not require opening mail, only a Paypal
> account.
>
> * Create a Paypal account for free.
>
> * Give six people $1.00. (Paypal IDs are listed below.)
>
> * Post this opportunity to others on the internet.
>
> * Other people create a Paypal account for free.
>
> * Thousands of people give you $1.00 to be put on your mailing list.
> (Once you add your Paypal ID.)
>
> If we all work together everyone will benefit.
>
> Here's how!
>
> Paypal verifies that this $6 investment program is 100% legal and is a
> big hit this year see their note below or ask them directly...
>
> For a simple investment of 15-30 minutes and just $6, it is 100% worth
> it to make thousands so quickly. This is not another scam that takes
> lots of your hard earned money; this is a no risk investment that will
> make you thousands of dollars very easily and quickly.
>
> From PayPal:
>
> "Dear Member, it has come to our attention that there is a Paypal
> opportunity floating around at the moment you may have heard or seen
> the $6 opportunity.
>
> You may have even taken part in it well we have been asked a lot of
> questions about this opportunity the answer is yes it does work and
> yes it is safe to use providing you follow the rules it is legal and
> has made a big hit on the internet this year.
>
> If you would like to take part in this opportunity or would like a bit
> more information then please see the attached file that was kindly
> donated to us.
>
> Thank you for using PayPal!"
>
> This program is by no means new. It has been in existence in many
> forms, including "snail mail" for at least a decade.
>
> IMPORTANT:
> This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it
> is virtually no risk-it really works! If all of the following
> instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends.
>
> AGAIN, PLEASE NOTE:
>
> Follow these directions EXACTLY, and $20,000 or more can be yours in 4
> to 6 weeks.
>
> This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity
> of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering
> to the instructions.
>
> A FEW LEGAL TIPS:
>
> You are starting a Mailing List. File your responses alphabetically
> everyday. If you have a computer, all the better, if not get one with
> your first mail responses. You will soon compile an extensive mailing
> list. It can be very useful in your business, to start a new business,
> or for other businesses to acquire information from you.
>
> When you send out these letters, you are in the mail order business.
> People are sending you $1.00 to be put on your mailing list. This is a
> legal & helpful service.
>
> Here are the 4 easy steps to success:
>
> STEP 1:
>
> Take a few minutes to join Paypal: Remember to verify your account.
>
> .https://www.paypal.com/us/mrb/pal=7QN95LG63VN7U
>
> The Internet's most trusted Internet banking system for your future
> income.
>
> When creating your Paypal account make email address you used for
> Paypal on the list below so people can send money to your account.
>
> STEP 2:
>
> Once you have a Paypal account running, use Paypal to post $1 to EACH
> of the 6 Email Addresses below because you pay people with an email
> address in Paypal. Select "SEND MONEY".
>
> To do this you may need to use a credit or debit card, which is very
> easy, and secure so nobody but Paypal may see it.
>
> What you are doing is creating a service. This is absolutely legal!
> You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it!
>
> Here are the 6 individual Email addresses that you have to send $1 to
> through Paypal for this to work properly and for you to receive money.
>
> (If you don't send the money and decide to post the message with your
> name in it anyway, Paypal will instantly pick this up and terminate
> your account, immediately, besides the other penalties!!) If you do
> this, you will be committing the federal offense of fraud and could be
> prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
>
> Now Send $1.00 to each of the six people on the list using Paypal, and
> in the comment (Subject) section type "Please add me to your list".
> Below are the emails that you transfer the money in
>
> 1.) hunk28...@hotmail.com
> 2.) sarah.lasa...@gmail.com
> 3.) zuman...@yahoo.com
> 4.) csg...@verizon.net
> 5.) t6da...@gmail.com
> 6.) em.bl...@yahoo.com
>
> STEP 3:
>
> Now after sending $1.00 to each of the email placements above, take
> the #1 Email Address off the list, move the other Email Addresses up
> (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) and add Your Email Address as number
> 6 on the list.
>
> STEP 4:
>
> Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to
> the original as possible.
>
> Now, post your amended article to at least 200 news groups (there are
> thousands of groups).
>
> And email your message to as many people you can. Remember, the more
> you post and email the more money you make! This is perfectly legal!
>
> You are getting paid for a service, the sender of the money asks you
> to "Please add me to your list", Therefore it is legal. Remember to
> send a dollar to the above names or this is considered illegal.
>
> Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money,
> you can use it again and again.
>
> PLEASE REMEMBER
>
> This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity
> of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions.
>
> You are simply paying into a money making chain of participants and if
> the chain is broken you are screwing someone else out of their fair
> share.
>
> So, as each person who joins the family and the directions are
> followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a
> Mailing List Developer with one dollar each.
>
> You then insert your Email Address into the list and it will move up
> geometrically.
>
> So that when your name reaches the #1 position you will have
> potentially received thousands of dollars into your account!!!
>
> What an opportunity for only a total of $6.00! $1 for each of the
> first six people listed above.
>
> To begin with, please send you're $1.00 to each email address listed
> above then add your own Email Address to the list and you're in
> business!
>
> Please try this out..it could really help you or a friend out.
>
> * Location: ANYWHERE
> * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other
> commercial interests

We are living in a world of spams!

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 3:55 am
From: George

hernz.tiru@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 7, 3:38 pm, em.bl...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> We are living in a world of spams!
>

You did repost the *entire* spam..

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Eating fingernails and toenails!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/537609b9e6bc72eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 1:40 am
From: asiandollno1@gmail.com

When you bite your nails, you are interfering with their ability to
protect your sensitive fingers. What's more, you are inviting
infection. Your nails can become infected because the surface is
broken or removed. You can also be eating all kinds of nasty things
that may be under your nails from things you have touched during the
day. If you touch your dog, your car or your school books and then
bite your nails, you are ingesting the same kinds of things you would
if you licked these objects. Pretty disgusting, huh? In addition,
bitten-down nails are not very attractive.

AsianDoll

Since its my school semester break I have been using my free time
playing games like <a href=http://www.gamestotal.com> http://www.gamestotal.com
</a> <a href=http://uc.gamestotal.com> http://uc.gamestotal.com </a>
<a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com> http://gc.gamestotal.com </a> <a
href=http://3700ad.gamestotal.com> http://3700ad.gamestotal.com </a>
<a href=http://manga.gamestotal.com> http://manga.gamestotal.com </a>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Theory: violent racists and bigots are criminally insane and need to be
monitored and ready to be imprisoned.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/93addb0579646640?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 2:53 am
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

This is why racists and bigots need to be monitored and often locked
up. They are mentally unstable people and a time bomb waiting to go
off. It's time to re open the wards for the criminally insane so these
creatures can be kept away from society.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28504734/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Putian City Chengxiang District CiCi Trade Co., Ltd (Wholesale(Sale)
world famous brand)8-35$
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/16d5167508190412?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 3:47 am
From: cicitrade300@yahoo.cn

hi
We are supplier in china Footwear Apparel Handbags Jeans&Pants Cap
Accessory(world famous brand)
1) Top quality, reasonable price, safe shipping, and best service
2) Sport shoes for men, women and kids with all sizes available
3) Sport shoes with different colors and styles available in stock
4) The material and size can be required to make in accordance with
customers' requests

Price :8-35usd 6-30EURO 5-30Pounds

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 11C 12C 12.5C 13C 1Y 1.5Y 2.5Y 3Y
EUR:28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

Footwear
http://www.cicigogo.cn
Apparel
http://www.cicigogo.cn
Handbags
http://www.cicigogo.cn
Jeans&Pants
http://www.cicigogo.cn
Cap
http://www.cicigogo.cn
Accessory
http://www.cicigogo.cn
electronics
http://picasaweb.google.com/cicitrade.eleltronics
CiCi
www.cicigogo.cn
MSN:CiCitrade@live.cn
Building Material Market, Goutou Denizen Committee, XiaChen Office
Putian City Chengxiang District CiCi Trade Co., Ltd

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Theory: The gov't nor the gangs want the drug war to end because it
makes so much money for them!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0ed8ad419ff9642d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 5:07 am
From: ultimauw@live.com

I say it's a very solid theory. Look what happened when they tried to
ban liquor

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone else seeing mystery phone numbers on Embarq long distance bill?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5143a3a3f5a603f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 5:18 am
From: s2000hondas2000@gmail.com

On Jan 6, 9:16 pm, "Tomes" <ask...@here.net> wrote:
> <s2000hondas2...@gmail.com> ...
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
>
>
>
> > Only fools/dinosaurs use checks anymore.
>
> DOT only takes checks, no cash, no cc. Stick to things you know, like
> welfare.
> ========================
> New Jersey MVC [the NJ version of the DOT] takes credit cards.
> Tomes

That's great for people in New Jersey except that New Jersey is also a
shithole.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 5:21 am
From: s2000hondas2000@gmail.com

On Jan 7, 1:03 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> s2000hondas2...@gmail.com wrote
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Only fools/dinosaurs use checks anymore.
> > DOT only takes checks, no cash, no cc.
>
> Only fools/dinosaurs let them get away with that.
>
> You elected those who 'run' operations like that, fuckwit.

And? It's not costing me anything, wanker.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Survivalism Retail Style
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 7:51 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

Has the devaluation cycle begun?

And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?

And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?

Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
headed..75% discounts and more?

TMT

After sales, will shoppers pay full price again?
By ANNE D'INNOCENZIO, AP Retail Writer Anne D'innocenzio, Ap Retail
Writer Wed Jan 7, 7:05 am ET
NEW YORK – Shoppers are getting used to those 75 percent off sale
signs, and that's bad news for merchants who worry they will also have
to quickly slash prices on spring goods to attract customers.

Anxieties about how rampant discounts have affected shoppers' psyches
and stores' profits are running high ahead of expected dismal December
sales figures on Thursday. The holiday season is anticipated to be the
worst in decades.

Already, retailers including Bebe Stores Inc. and J.Crew Group Inc.
are cutting prices on selected spring styles to lure sale-savvy
shoppers.

"It is a vicious cycle that no one wants to continue," said Gilbert
Harrison, chairman of Financo Inc., an investment banking firm
specializing in retailing. The discounts will be a key topic at
Financo's annual dinner on Monday for retail chief executives.

In addition, retailers expect competition from a rise in liquidation
sales — the fallout from the horrible holiday period.

Merchants struggling to clear out mounds of deeply discounted coats
and sweaters are wondering how they are going to get nervous shoppers
to splurge on new spring products.

The deep price cuts are making shoppers question the true value of
items. If they can get $200 jeans at 60 percent off, will they be
willing to pay the original price next fall?

"Our sense of what is fair and what is a good deal has changed," said
Michal Ann Strahilevitz, professor of marketing at the Golden Gate
University's Ageno School of Business. She said that a sale has to be
at least 70 percent off to be considered a bargain now.

Marcia Layton Turner, a mother of two from Rochester, N.Y., recently
walked away from an outfit that she spotted at a local Kohl's store
that was 50 percent off.

"Forty to 50 percent used to excite me," the 43-year-old writer said.
"Now, I want at least 70 percent." Turner says she has taken advantage
of 75 percent discounts on children's clothes in recent weeks and is
willing to wait to get the same type of deals in the coming months.

Consumers across the spectrum have been holding back.

Overall sales of apparel fell 17.3 percent from Nov. 30 through Jan.
3, while footwear sales dropped 12 percent compared to the same period
a year ago, according to figures released Wednesday by SpendingPulse,
a data service provided by MasterCard Advisors that estimates U.S.
retail sales across all payment forms including cash and checks.

Sales of electronics and appliances dropped 21.4 percent, while luxury
goods suffered a 27.6 percent drop. Online sales rose 4.6 percent.

Fourth-quarter profits are likely to decline more than 19 percent,
said Ken Perkins, president of research company RetailMetrics LLC.
Excluding Wal-Mart Stores Inc., one of the few bright spots, he said
the drop is expected to reach almost 28 percent.

Perkins predicts that profits will keep falling into the first
quarter, projecting an 11 percent drop; excluding Wal-Mart, that
figure is likely to fall more than 17 percent.

The financial meltdown in September that led to an abrupt halt in
spending came too late for merchants to dramatically adjust spring
inventories. Many stores order goods four to seven months in advance.

And while spring inventories are estimated to be down as much as 30
percent from year-ago levels, many analysts say that inventories
should be down even more. Barclays Capital analyst Jeff Black believes
it will take at least until the back-to-school season to get
inventories in line with consumer demand, and even then stores will
still face the challenge of weaning shoppers away from deals.

For those shoppers who could still load up on deeply discounted
merchandise, the last few weeks have been paradise. Even before the
Thanksgiving weekend, the traditional start of the holiday shopping
season, Saks Fifth Avenue marked down shoes by 70 percent.

But earlier deals look measly compared with some current offers as
merchants try to get rid of their holiday products by the end of the
month. The upscale DKNY store on New York's Madison Avenue is
plastered with a sign proclaiming "Up to 90 percent off."

As retailers work to clear out old merchandise, analysts say many are
trying to hold back on discounting new winter and spring items. Dan de
Grandpre, editor-in-chief of dealnews.com, said he is seeing more
bundling deals — a flat-panel TV that comes with a free Blu-ray
system, for example.

But many doubt that such strategies will work and predict early
discounts on spring goods. The signs are already there. Bebe has cut
certain spring sweaters by 25 percent, while J.Crew has marked some
spring items anywhere from 25 to 40 percent off, according to Amy
Wilcox Noblin, an analyst at PaliCapital Inc.

It will be years before shoppers are going to be enticed by discounts
of less than 50 percent, said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's
Research Group.

Traditional stores have also had to dump more excess goods at off-
price retailers like TJ Maxx, which reduce prices more, said Marshal
Cohen, chief industry analyst at market research firm NPD Group Inc.

But a bigger problem is liquidation sales at stores that are either
closing specific locations or shutting down the entire business.

Going-out-of-business sales at KB Toys and Linens 'N Things put
pressure on other retailers even before Christmas, and analysts expect
competition to get fiercer amid a likely spike in bankruptcy filings.

James Schaye, president and CEO of Hudson Capital Partners LLC., which
has overseen liquidations of Mervyns LLC, Tweeter Home Entertainment
Group Inc. and Steve & Barry's, estimated that his company liquidated
about $3 billion in merchandise in the October through December
period, compared with about $400 million a year ago.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:08 am
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:51:38 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

> Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>
> And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
> boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>
> And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>
> Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
> headed..75% discounts and more?
>
> TMT

That's more properly called "deflation":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_(economics)

I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
inflation?

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:20 am
From: spamTHISbrp@yahoo.com

On Jan 7, 10:51 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>
> And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
> boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>
> And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>
> Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
> headed..75% discounts and more?
>
> TMT
>
> After sales, will shoppers pay full price again?
> By ANNE D'INNOCENZIO, AP Retail Writer Anne D'innocenzio, Ap Retail
> Writer Wed Jan 7, 7:05 am ET
> NEW YORK – Shoppers are getting used to those 75 percent off sale
> signs, and that's bad news for merchants who worry they will also have
> to quickly slash prices on spring goods to attract customers.
>
> Anxieties about how rampant discounts have affected shoppers' psyches
> and stores' profits are running high ahead of expected dismal December
> sales figures on Thursday. The holiday season is anticipated to be the
> worst in decades.
>
> Already, retailers including Bebe Stores Inc. and J.Crew Group Inc.
> are cutting prices on selected spring styles to lure sale-savvy
> shoppers.
>
> "It is a vicious cycle that no one wants to continue," said Gilbert
> Harrison, chairman of Financo Inc., an investment banking firm
> specializing in retailing. The discounts will be a key topic at
> Financo's annual dinner on Monday for retail chief executives.
>
> In addition, retailers expect competition from a rise in liquidation
> sales — the fallout from the horrible holiday period.
>
> Merchants struggling to clear out mounds of deeply discounted coats
> and sweaters are wondering how they are going to get nervous shoppers
> to splurge on new spring products.
>
> The deep price cuts are making shoppers question the true value of
> items. If they can get $200 jeans at 60 percent off, will they be
> willing to pay the original price next fall?
>
> "Our sense of what is fair and what is a good deal has changed," said
> Michal Ann Strahilevitz, professor of marketing at the Golden Gate
> University's Ageno School of Business. She said that a sale has to be
> at least 70 percent off to be considered a bargain now.
>
> Marcia Layton Turner, a mother of two from Rochester, N.Y., recently
> walked away from an outfit that she spotted at a local Kohl's store
> that was 50 percent off.
>
> "Forty to 50 percent used to excite me," the 43-year-old writer said.
> "Now, I want at least 70 percent." Turner says she has taken advantage
> of 75 percent discounts on children's clothes in recent weeks and is
> willing to wait to get the same type of deals in the coming months.
>
> Consumers across the spectrum have been holding back.
>
> Overall sales of apparel fell 17.3 percent from Nov. 30 through Jan.
> 3, while footwear sales dropped 12 percent compared to the same period
> a year ago, according to figures released Wednesday by SpendingPulse,
> a data service provided by MasterCard Advisors that estimates U.S.
> retail sales across all payment forms including cash and checks.
>
> Sales of electronics and appliances dropped 21.4 percent, while luxury
> goods suffered a 27.6 percent drop. Online sales rose 4.6 percent.
>
> Fourth-quarter profits are likely to decline more than 19 percent,
> said Ken Perkins, president of research company RetailMetrics LLC.
> Excluding Wal-Mart Stores Inc., one of the few bright spots, he said
> the drop is expected to reach almost 28 percent.
>
> Perkins predicts that profits will keep falling into the first
> quarter, projecting an 11 percent drop; excluding Wal-Mart, that
> figure is likely to fall more than 17 percent.
>
> The financial meltdown in September that led to an abrupt halt in
> spending came too late for merchants to dramatically adjust spring
> inventories. Many stores order goods four to seven months in advance.
>
> And while spring inventories are estimated to be down as much as 30
> percent from year-ago levels, many analysts say that inventories
> should be down even more. Barclays Capital analyst Jeff Black believes
> it will take at least until the back-to-school season to get
> inventories in line with consumer demand, and even then stores will
> still face the challenge of weaning shoppers away from deals.
>
> For those shoppers who could still load up on deeply discounted
> merchandise, the last few weeks have been paradise. Even before the
> Thanksgiving weekend, the traditional start of the holiday shopping
> season, Saks Fifth Avenue marked down shoes by 70 percent.
>
> But earlier deals look measly compared with some current offers as
> merchants try to get rid of their holiday products by the end of the
> month. The upscale DKNY store on New York's Madison Avenue is
> plastered with a sign proclaiming "Up to 90 percent off."
>
> As retailers work to clear out old merchandise, analysts say many are
> trying to hold back on discounting new winter and spring items. Dan de
> Grandpre, editor-in-chief of dealnews.com, said he is seeing more
> bundling deals — a flat-panel TV that comes with a free Blu-ray
> system, for example.
>
> But many doubt that such strategies will work and predict early
> discounts on spring goods. The signs are already there. Bebe has cut
> certain spring sweaters by 25 percent, while J.Crew has marked some
> spring items anywhere from 25 to 40 percent off, according to Amy
> Wilcox Noblin, an analyst at PaliCapital Inc.
>
> It will be years before shoppers are going to be enticed by discounts
> of less than 50 percent, said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's
> Research Group.
>
> Traditional stores have also had to dump more excess goods at off-
> price retailers like TJ Maxx, which reduce prices more, said Marshal
> Cohen, chief industry analyst at market research firm NPD Group Inc.
>
> But a bigger problem is liquidation sales at stores that are either
> closing specific locations or shutting down the entire business.
>
> Going-out-of-business sales at KB Toys and Linens 'N Things put
> pressure on other retailers even before Christmas, and analysts expect
> competition to get fiercer amid a likely spike in bankruptcy filings.
>
> James Schaye, president and CEO of Hudson Capital Partners LLC., which
> has overseen liquidations of Mervyns LLC, Tweeter Home Entertainment
> Group Inc. and Steve & Barry's, estimated that his company liquidated
> about $3 billion in merchandise in the October through December
> period, compared with about $400 million a year ago.

The retail sector is going to have to adjust its expectations, and
move towards a model where they are profitable each and every month of
the year, not starting after thanksgiving!

And yes, that means there are going to be a hell of a lot fewer
retailers, and hopefully most of the malls collapse as well.

Not that this'll be enough to cure us USA-ians of our expectation of
absurd levels of consumption, but it'll be a start.

Dave

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:25 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 7, 10:20 am, spamTHIS...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jan 7, 10:51 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>
> > And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
> > boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>
> > And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>
> > Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
> > headed..75% discounts and more?
>
> > TMT
>
> > After sales, will shoppers pay full price again?
> > By ANNE D'INNOCENZIO, AP Retail Writer Anne D'innocenzio, Ap Retail
> > Writer Wed Jan 7, 7:05 am ET
> > NEW YORK – Shoppers are getting used to those 75 percent off sale
> > signs, and that's bad news for merchants who worry they will also have
> > to quickly slash prices on spring goods to attract customers.
>
> > Anxieties about how rampant discounts have affected shoppers' psyches
> > and stores' profits are running high ahead of expected dismal December
> > sales figures on Thursday. The holiday season is anticipated to be the
> > worst in decades.
>
> > Already, retailers including Bebe Stores Inc. and J.Crew Group Inc.
> > are cutting prices on selected spring styles to lure sale-savvy
> > shoppers.
>
> > "It is a vicious cycle that no one wants to continue," said Gilbert
> > Harrison, chairman of Financo Inc., an investment banking firm
> > specializing in retailing. The discounts will be a key topic at
> > Financo's annual dinner on Monday for retail chief executives.
>
> > In addition, retailers expect competition from a rise in liquidation
> > sales — the fallout from the horrible holiday period.
>
> > Merchants struggling to clear out mounds of deeply discounted coats
> > and sweaters are wondering how they are going to get nervous shoppers
> > to splurge on new spring products.
>
> > The deep price cuts are making shoppers question the true value of
> > items. If they can get $200 jeans at 60 percent off, will they be
> > willing to pay the original price next fall?
>
> > "Our sense of what is fair and what is a good deal has changed," said
> > Michal Ann Strahilevitz, professor of marketing at the Golden Gate
> > University's Ageno School of Business. She said that a sale has to be
> > at least 70 percent off to be considered a bargain now.
>
> > Marcia Layton Turner, a mother of two from Rochester, N.Y., recently
> > walked away from an outfit that she spotted at a local Kohl's store
> > that was 50 percent off.
>
> > "Forty to 50 percent used to excite me," the 43-year-old writer said.
> > "Now, I want at least 70 percent." Turner says she has taken advantage
> > of 75 percent discounts on children's clothes in recent weeks and is
> > willing to wait to get the same type of deals in the coming months.
>
> > Consumers across the spectrum have been holding back.
>
> > Overall sales of apparel fell 17.3 percent from Nov. 30 through Jan.
> > 3, while footwear sales dropped 12 percent compared to the same period
> > a year ago, according to figures released Wednesday by SpendingPulse,
> > a data service provided by MasterCard Advisors that estimates U.S.
> > retail sales across all payment forms including cash and checks.
>
> > Sales of electronics and appliances dropped 21.4 percent, while luxury
> > goods suffered a 27.6 percent drop. Online sales rose 4.6 percent.
>
> > Fourth-quarter profits are likely to decline more than 19 percent,
> > said Ken Perkins, president of research company RetailMetrics LLC.
> > Excluding Wal-Mart Stores Inc., one of the few bright spots, he said
> > the drop is expected to reach almost 28 percent.
>
> > Perkins predicts that profits will keep falling into the first
> > quarter, projecting an 11 percent drop; excluding Wal-Mart, that
> > figure is likely to fall more than 17 percent.
>
> > The financial meltdown in September that led to an abrupt halt in
> > spending came too late for merchants to dramatically adjust spring
> > inventories. Many stores order goods four to seven months in advance.
>
> > And while spring inventories are estimated to be down as much as 30
> > percent from year-ago levels, many analysts say that inventories
> > should be down even more. Barclays Capital analyst Jeff Black believes
> > it will take at least until the back-to-school season to get
> > inventories in line with consumer demand, and even then stores will
> > still face the challenge of weaning shoppers away from deals.
>
> > For those shoppers who could still load up on deeply discounted
> > merchandise, the last few weeks have been paradise. Even before the
> > Thanksgiving weekend, the traditional start of the holiday shopping
> > season, Saks Fifth Avenue marked down shoes by 70 percent.
>
> > But earlier deals look measly compared with some current offers as
> > merchants try to get rid of their holiday products by the end of the
> > month. The upscale DKNY store on New York's Madison Avenue is
> > plastered with a sign proclaiming "Up to 90 percent off."
>
> > As retailers work to clear out old merchandise, analysts say many are
> > trying to hold back on discounting new winter and spring items. Dan de
> > Grandpre, editor-in-chief of dealnews.com, said he is seeing more
> > bundling deals — a flat-panel TV that comes with a free Blu-ray
> > system, for example.
>
> > But many doubt that such strategies will work and predict early
> > discounts on spring goods. The signs are already there. Bebe has cut
> > certain spring sweaters by 25 percent, while J.Crew has marked some
> > spring items anywhere from 25 to 40 percent off, according to Amy
> > Wilcox Noblin, an analyst at PaliCapital Inc.
>
> > It will be years before shoppers are going to be enticed by discounts
> > of less than 50 percent, said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's
> > Research Group.
>
> > Traditional stores have also had to dump more excess goods at off-
> > price retailers like TJ Maxx, which reduce prices more, said Marshal
> > Cohen, chief industry analyst at market research firm NPD Group Inc.
>
> > But a bigger problem is liquidation sales at stores that are either
> > closing specific locations or shutting down the entire business.
>
> > Going-out-of-business sales at KB Toys and Linens 'N Things put
> > pressure on other retailers even before Christmas, and analysts expect
> > competition to get fiercer amid a likely spike in bankruptcy filings.
>
> > James Schaye, president and CEO of Hudson Capital Partners LLC., which
> > has overseen liquidations of Mervyns LLC, Tweeter Home Entertainment
> > Group Inc. and Steve & Barry's, estimated that his company liquidated
> > about $3 billion in merchandise in the October through December
> > period, compared with about $400 million a year ago.
>
> The retail sector is going to have to adjust its expectations, and
> move towards a model where they are profitable each and every month of
> the year, not starting after thanksgiving!
>
> And yes, that means there are going to be a hell of a lot fewer
> retailers, and hopefully most of the malls collapse as well.
>
> Not that this'll be enough to cure us USA-ians of our expectation of
> absurd levels of consumption, but it'll be a start.
>
> Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I also suspect that there will much less inventory on the shelves next
Christmas season.

I saw this trend from last year when retailers got caught with excess
from the season before that ...more expensive items with smaller
profit margins were not kept in stock.

Note how more and more store are pushing "ship to store"
options..placing the inventory costs on the suppliers.

TMT

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 9:13 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has the devaluation cycle begun?

> And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
> boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?

> And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?

> Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
> headed..75% discounts and more?

What you identify is a hallmark of massive deflation. It can be more
destructive than inflation, and deflationary pressures currently are
gaining steam.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 9:14 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:

> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
> inflation?

Winston says Yes.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 9:58 am
From: Dan

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:51:38 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>
>> Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>>
>> And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
>> boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>>
>> And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>>
>> Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
>> headed..75% discounts and more?
>>
>> TMT
>
> That's more properly called "deflation":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_(economics)
>
> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
> inflation?
>

8 years of Bush was not enough of a lesson in that?

Dan

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:05 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

<spamTHISbrp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c78e9b4c-755c-4cd9-ba06-b81ab84f76f8@h16g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 7, 10:51 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has the devaluation cycle begun?

<snip>

>The retail sector is going to have to adjust its expectations, and
>move towards a model where they are profitable each and every month of
>the year, not starting after thanksgiving!

For the record, we hear this refrain with every recession, and it never
happens. As long as there is free competition in retail (one of the freest
marketplaces in a nominally free economy), it probably *can't* happen.
Competition will force it to continue as a seasonally profitable business.

>And yes, that means there are going to be a hell of a lot fewer
>retailers, and hopefully most of the malls collapse as well.

Consolidation of retailers is possible. The malls probably will emerge
stronger than ever, because small, independent retailers are the ones that
will suffer from a lower state of economic equilibrium.

>Not that this'll be enough to cure us USA-ians of our expectation of
>absurd levels of consumption, but it'll be a start.

What's "absurd"? Do you mean levels sustained by growing deficit spending?
That's possible, maybe even likely. But if you mean that the economy will
wind down and stay there, that's very unlikely.

We'll probably hit a lower plateau, as we have after other serious
recessions, from which point we'll start to grow again. And that means
growth in consumption. The question is, consumption of *what*?

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Skype higher than onesuite.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7af523d960b00177?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:04 am
From: SMS

Zee wrote:
> On Nov 24 2008, 6:09 am, "John Weiss" <jrwe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:41:01 -0800, SMS wrote:
>>> Yeah, I've turned a lot of people on toOneSuite. One of the biggest
>>> advantages ofOneSuiteis that they have access numbers in a lot of
>>> countries, and of course it's a lot simpler than Skype to use.
>> So, why do you need an access number forOneSuite? With Skype, any place you
>> have an Internet connection (with VERY few exceptions like UAE and Ethiopia),
>> you have Skype connectivity.
>>
>> As for ease of use, either dial the number or select your contact. What's hard
>> about it?
>>
>> I use Skype around the world, and spend less than $5/year on calling to actual
>> phones!
>
> Because with Onesuite you can either use it as a prepaid phone card to
> countries around the world (say US, China, UK, Italy, Taiwan, Canada,
> Germany, etc) and you dial the access number from that country or area
> to make your phone call. You can also use to make calls through their
> voip service which doesn't need any access numbers and is exactly the
> same thing about Skype BUT cheaper.

Very true. OneSuite is much more versatile than Skype or Vonage, besides
being less expensive. Often when traveling overseas you don't have free
broadband, and it's really nice to be able to just use a pay phone.

What I also do when traveling is to simply program my prepaid SIM card
number into the OneSuite speed dial list, so I can receive calls on the
cell phone and the speed dial code doesn't change no matter where I am.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Onesuite Question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/136859395009c10f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:09 am
From: SMS

NancyR wrote:
> I've used Onesuite for years with few problems. I had it set up where I
> did not have to enter my pin number each time I made a call. About a week
> ago this feature stopped working. I checked my account at their web site
> and it was still set up. I sent an email to Onesuite with no response. So
> I deleted the setup and then re-entered it, but that did not fix the
> problem.
>
> Has anyone had this problem lately?

One thing I noticed with OneSuite is that originally I didn't need to
disable caller-ID blocking to use PINless calling. Then for a long while
I had to disable caller-ID blocking prior to calling the local access
number (*82), and if I didn't it would ask for a PIN. Recently, when I
forgot to disable the caller-ID blocking, I was surprised that it didn't
ask for a PIN, and this still is the case. I don't know how they figure
out the number you're calling from when Caller-ID blocking is enabled.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save on Phone Calls
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81e9507772219fb7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:11 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

I'm using the MagicJack and Net10.

Last year my my phone bills ran over $350, this year they should be
under $150.
====================================================================
http://cheapogroovo.vox.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: USENET USE EXPLODES
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0064c37729751b0a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:42 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

Story folows

Giganews, the largest gateway to Usenet, or the newsgroups, has reported
"unprecedented growth" in the last year. The newsgroups are one of the
oldest mediums of the Internet, with an existence dating back to the
late 1970s. Over time, the newsgroups have evolved from a bulletin board
type messaging system to one of the premier avenues for file-sharing.
Users of this network will often times argue of its overwhelming
supremacy over rival BitTorrent.

With lawsuits, bandwidth throttling and politicking consuming the P2P
community, the newsgroups are becoming a more attractive source of
information. Because of the defined roles in the newsgroup community and
secure transmissions, lawsuits against individuals are virtually non-
existent. Unlike P2P, the end user is not required nor encouraged to
upload material. Instead, dedicated users with the know-how and
experience are responsible for providing content. And according to
Giganews, those individuals and those posting messages are taking the
newsgroups by storm.

In a release posted today, Giganews is reporting that since the upgrade
to 240 days, the already impressive growth initiated in January has
accelerated.
====================================================================
http://cheapogroovo.vox.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Politicians are whores
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b76d7ed0094eaf83?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 8:55 am
From: mg

re: Politicians are Whores

As long as there are Johns, there will always be whores.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Love garage sales? We're building the world's largest ONLINE garage
sale!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4497973f8d3926f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 9:25 am
From: Duke

* Snatch bargains for pennies on the dollar
* New items added hourly
* Collectibles and hard-to-find items
* Gadgets and gear available nowhere else
* Crazy-priced closeouts
* Sell your own unwanted stuff too for quick cash!

http://www.tripleclicks.com/9374280/go

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where do you get your best buys in cat food?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0890e14d22167708?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 9:54 am
From: "cshenk"

"Dave Garland" wrote
> cshenk wrote:
>> That 40# bag is probably totally USA generated and decent quality with
>> none
>> of the problems the overseas stuff has had.
>
> I'm not sure one can assume that. The melamine problem in 2007, a lot
> of USA brands were affected. It's a global market, and manufacturers
> order ingredients from wherever the deal is best.

Yes, but the big companies (purina etc) arent what he's getting. It;s a
local feed store I gather. Unlikely the contract that out. Worth asking
though.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sell:jordan shoes:$32,nfl jerseys:$20,handbags:$35(WWW.IOFFERKICKS.COM)
free shipp
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3843247bd786efc9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:07 am
From: "www.iofferkicks.com"

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MSN :IOFFERKICKS@MSN.COM

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Wednesday, January 7, 2009

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