http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* sell:jordan shoes:$32,nfl jerseys:$20,handbags:$35(WWW.IOFFERKICKS.COM)free
shipp - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3843247bd786efc9?hl=en
* USENET USE EXPLODES - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0064c37729751b0a?hl=en
* OT - Survivalism Retail Style - 17 messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
* Theory: The gov't nor the gangs want the drug war to end because it makes so
much money for them! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0ed8ad419ff9642d?hl=en
* Anyone else seeing mystery phone numbers on Embarq long distance bill? - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5143a3a3f5a603f2?hl=en
* Save on Phone Calls - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81e9507772219fb7?hl=en
* Handmade hammocks at wholesale prices - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/852851191742a42e?hl=en
* Sorry link is wrong in hammock message - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df411d8ef22709ae?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: sell:jordan shoes:$32,nfl jerseys:$20,handbags:$35(WWW.IOFFERKICKS.COM)
free shipp
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3843247bd786efc9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: USENET USE EXPLODES
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0064c37729751b0a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:17 am
From: Dave Garland
Cheapo Groovo wrote:
> Story folows
>
> Giganews, the largest gateway to Usenet, or the newsgroups, has reported
> "unprecedented growth" in the last year.
I rather think it is not Usenet whose use is exploding, but rather
that as ISPs eliminate news service, those users that are left
gravitate toward Giganews. Good for Giganews but bad for Usenet as a
whole.
(My ISP no longer has its own news servers, but buys access from
Giganews.)
Dave
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Survivalism Retail Style
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:15 am
From: "Ed Huntress"
<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
>> inflation?
>
> Winston says Yes.
Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
(stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but you
can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same time.
--
Ed Huntress
== 2 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:27 am
From: CanopyCo
What I don't get is how can they give 75% off and not loose money?
Did they mark it up 100% in the first place?
Maybe they will start charging a fair mark up instead of trying to
burn us every time.
== 3 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:30 am
From: Curly Surmudgeon
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:15:58 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:
> <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
>> In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
>>> inflation?
>>
>> Winston says Yes.
>
> Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
> (stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but
> you can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same
> time.
Depends on your definition of "deflation."
"Inflation destroys real value in money. Deflation creates real value in
money. Alternatively, the term deflation was used by the classical
economists to refer to a decrease in the money supply and credit; some
economists, including many Austrian school economists, still use the word
in this sense. The two meanings are closely related, since a decrease in
the money supply is likely to cause a decrease in the price level."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
== 4 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:38 am
From: "Ed Huntress"
"CanopyCo" <Junk74020@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d09a199d-ee1c-4fb0-95c4-2ea1e5e7c567@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
What I don't get is how can they give 75% off and not loose money?
They can't. But they would lose more if it winds up as unsold inventory.
They're clearing their inventory, which most retailers have to do from time
to time -- at least, the ones that want to stay in business.
The counterexample is the old hardware store that keeps inventory forever.
The last one I know of around here went broke 15 years ago.
>Did they mark it up 100% in the first place?
Markup, markon...don't get us confused. <g> They more than double the price
they paid for it.
Clothing in big retailers is marked up around 60% or so. That means that
they pay $4 and sell it for $10. Jewelry is around 70%. And so on.
>Maybe they will start charging a fair mark up instead of trying to
>burn us every time.
Those are the "fair" markups. At those rates, they just make a profit.
BTW, when I was marketing machine tools, our typical markup was 55%.
--
Ed Huntress
== 5 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:50 am
From: "T.Alan Kraus"
Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:51:38 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>
>
>>Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>>
>>And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
>>boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>>
>>And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>>
>>Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
>>headed..75% discounts and more?
>>
>>TMT
>
>
> That's more properly called "deflation":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_(economics)
>
> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
> inflation?
>
I have seen it in inflatable matresses and even rubber inflatable boats.
One section is totally inflated and another is deflated. It also happens
on vehicles sometimes where 3 tires might be well inflated , but one of
them is deflated. So yes it is possible! Patching and a air compressor
is the usual cure...
cheers
T.Alan
== 6 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 11:00 am
From: tmclone@searchmachine.com
On Jan 7, 1:38 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "CanopyCo" <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d09a199d-ee1c-4fb0-95c4-2ea1e5e7c567@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> What I don't get is how can they give 75% off and not loose money?
>
> They can't. But they would lose more if it winds up as unsold inventory.
> They're clearing their inventory, which most retailers have to do from time
> to time -- at least, the ones that want to stay in business.
>
> The counterexample is the old hardware store that keeps inventory forever.
> The last one I know of around here went broke 15 years ago.
>
> >Did they mark it up 100% in the first place?
>
> Markup, markon...don't get us confused. <g> They more than double the price
> they paid for it.
>
> Clothing in big retailers is marked up around 60% or so. That means that
> they pay $4 and sell it for $10. Jewelry is around 70%. And so on.
>
> >Maybe they will start charging a fair mark up instead of trying to
> >burn us every time.
>
> Those are the "fair" markups. At those rates, they just make a profit.
>
> BTW, when I was marketing machine tools, our typical markup was 55%.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
Don't confuse "markup" with "profit". You CANNOT make 100% profit on
anything unless you steal it and have no operating expenses. "Profit"
is the the money you make less the cost of selling the goods (actual
product cost plus operating expenses). "Markup" the difference between
the cost of the goods and the selling price. Most retailers "markup"
the goods at least 100%, to offset the operating expenses and make a
profit. If you pay $5 for something, sell it for $10, you have $5 left
to pay other expenses and (hopefully) put some cash in your pocket. As
long as your operating expenses are less than 50% of your gross sales,
a 100% markup will work. The lower your costs, the more profit you
make.
== 7 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 11:16 am
From: Strabo
EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
> In misc.survivalism Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>
>> And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
>> boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>
>> And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>
>> Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
>> headed..75% discounts and more?
>
>
> What you identify is a hallmark of massive deflation. It can be more
> destructive than inflation, and deflationary pressures currently are
> gaining steam.
>
It all depends on how you are effected at a given point along the time
line, and complex adjustments take a long time.
In a free market the true value of product or service is measured by the
amount of labor and/or real assets which are traded for it. Other
factors that alter the appearance of this value eventually become known
and removed. This constitutes an adjustment and may involve multiple and
simultaneous changes which may be seen during the process as adding or
subtracting from the true value.
1. The stock market is over-valued relative to the demand for goods
and services which the stocks represent. This artificial figure
is greater than the amount of physical currency available to buy
them. This has been the case for twenty years and effects the buying
power of the dollar.
2. The creation of phony contracts (derivatives fraud) claiming the
existence of trillions of of dollars, decreases the overall power
of the dollar which in turn increases the value of real assets.
3. Some people (buyers and sellers) are responding to these factors by
shutting down production and firing workers while others are
opportunistically buying real assets. In the meantime government
agents are creating and pumping trillions of digital dollars into the
mix.
These each contribute to the revaluation of the currency and
stabilization of the economy.
== 8 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 11:19 am
From: clams_casino
CanopyCo wrote:
>What I don't get is how can they give 75% off and not loose money?
>Did they mark it up 100% in the first place?
>
>
>
Firstly, most all goods are marked up at least 100% which generally
(hopefully) results in about 5-10% profit after all expenses.
Secondly, they are likely providing 75% off to minimize a loss - taking
a 25% loss vs. realizing additional costs of dumping the item, selling
it to a clearance house for cents on the dollar or continue to pay
inventory costs. More commonly, they probably initially marked it up
more than 100%. Do you really believe every item at Kohl's is sold at
a loss when they typically mark everything down about 50%?
== 9 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:15 pm
From: Gunner Asch
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:00:49 -0800 (PST), tmclone@searchmachine.com
wrote:
>On Jan 7, 1:38 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> "CanopyCo" <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:d09a199d-ee1c-4fb0-95c4-2ea1e5e7c567@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> What I don't get is how can they give 75% off and not loose money?
>>
>> They can't. But they would lose more if it winds up as unsold inventory.
>> They're clearing their inventory, which most retailers have to do from time
>> to time -- at least, the ones that want to stay in business.
>>
>> The counterexample is the old hardware store that keeps inventory forever.
>> The last one I know of around here went broke 15 years ago.
>>
>> >Did they mark it up 100% in the first place?
>>
>> Markup, markon...don't get us confused. <g> They more than double the price
>> they paid for it.
>>
>> Clothing in big retailers is marked up around 60% or so. That means that
>> they pay $4 and sell it for $10. Jewelry is around 70%. And so on.
>>
>> >Maybe they will start charging a fair mark up instead of trying to
>> >burn us every time.
>>
>> Those are the "fair" markups. At those rates, they just make a profit.
>>
>> BTW, when I was marketing machine tools, our typical markup was 55%.
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
>Don't confuse "markup" with "profit". You CANNOT make 100% profit on
>anything unless you steal it and have no operating expenses. "Profit"
>is the the money you make less the cost of selling the goods (actual
>product cost plus operating expenses). "Markup" the difference between
>the cost of the goods and the selling price. Most retailers "markup"
>the goods at least 100%, to offset the operating expenses and make a
>profit. If you pay $5 for something, sell it for $10, you have $5 left
>to pay other expenses and (hopefully) put some cash in your pocket. As
>long as your operating expenses are less than 50% of your gross sales,
>a 100% markup will work. The lower your costs, the more profit you
>make.
Excellent and accurate explaination
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
== 10 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:33 pm
From: phil scott
On Jan 7, 7:51 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>
> And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
> boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>
> And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>
> Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
> headed..75% discounts and more?
>
> TMT
>
> After sales, will shoppers pay full price again?
> By ANNE D'INNOCENZIO, AP Retail Writer Anne D'innocenzio, Ap Retail
> Writer Wed Jan 7, 7:05 am ET
> NEW YORK – Shoppers are getting used to those 75 percent off sale
> signs, and that's bad news for merchants who worry they will also have
> to quickly slash prices on spring goods to attract customers.
>
> Anxieties about how rampant discounts have affected shoppers' psyches
> and stores' profits are running high ahead of expected dismal December
> sales figures on Thursday. The holiday season is anticipated to be the
> worst in decades.
>
> Already, retailers including Bebe Stores Inc. and J.Crew Group Inc.
> are cutting prices on selected spring styles to lure sale-savvy
> shoppers.
>
> "It is a vicious cycle that no one wants to continue," said Gilbert
> Harrison, chairman of Financo Inc., an investment banking firm
> specializing in retailing. The discounts will be a key topic at
> Financo's annual dinner on Monday for retail chief executives.
>
> In addition, retailers expect competition from a rise in liquidation
> sales — the fallout from the horrible holiday period.
>
> Merchants struggling to clear out mounds of deeply discounted coats
> and sweaters are wondering how they are going to get nervous shoppers
> to splurge on new spring products.
>
> The deep price cuts are making shoppers question the true value of
> items. If they can get $200 jeans at 60 percent off, will they be
> willing to pay the original price next fall?
>
> "Our sense of what is fair and what is a good deal has changed," said
> Michal Ann Strahilevitz, professor of marketing at the Golden Gate
> University's Ageno School of Business. She said that a sale has to be
> at least 70 percent off to be considered a bargain now.
>
> Marcia Layton Turner, a mother of two from Rochester, N.Y., recently
> walked away from an outfit that she spotted at a local Kohl's store
> that was 50 percent off.
>
> "Forty to 50 percent used to excite me," the 43-year-old writer said.
> "Now, I want at least 70 percent." Turner says she has taken advantage
> of 75 percent discounts on children's clothes in recent weeks and is
> willing to wait to get the same type of deals in the coming months.
>
> Consumers across the spectrum have been holding back.
>
> Overall sales of apparel fell 17.3 percent from Nov. 30 through Jan.
> 3, while footwear sales dropped 12 percent compared to the same period
> a year ago, according to figures released Wednesday by SpendingPulse,
> a data service provided by MasterCard Advisors that estimates U.S.
> retail sales across all payment forms including cash and checks.
>
> Sales of electronics and appliances dropped 21.4 percent, while luxury
> goods suffered a 27.6 percent drop. Online sales rose 4.6 percent.
>
> Fourth-quarter profits are likely to decline more than 19 percent,
> said Ken Perkins, president of research company RetailMetrics LLC.
> Excluding Wal-Mart Stores Inc., one of the few bright spots, he said
> the drop is expected to reach almost 28 percent.
>
> Perkins predicts that profits will keep falling into the first
> quarter, projecting an 11 percent drop; excluding Wal-Mart, that
> figure is likely to fall more than 17 percent.
>
> The financial meltdown in September that led to an abrupt halt in
> spending came too late for merchants to dramatically adjust spring
> inventories. Many stores order goods four to seven months in advance.
>
> And while spring inventories are estimated to be down as much as 30
> percent from year-ago levels, many analysts say that inventories
> should be down even more. Barclays Capital analyst Jeff Black believes
> it will take at least until the back-to-school season to get
> inventories in line with consumer demand, and even then stores will
> still face the challenge of weaning shoppers away from deals.
>
> For those shoppers who could still load up on deeply discounted
> merchandise, the last few weeks have been paradise. Even before the
> Thanksgiving weekend, the traditional start of the holiday shopping
> season, Saks Fifth Avenue marked down shoes by 70 percent.
>
> But earlier deals look measly compared with some current offers as
> merchants try to get rid of their holiday products by the end of the
> month. The upscale DKNY store on New York's Madison Avenue is
> plastered with a sign proclaiming "Up to 90 percent off."
>
> As retailers work to clear out old merchandise, analysts say many are
> trying to hold back on discounting new winter and spring items. Dan de
> Grandpre, editor-in-chief of dealnews.com, said he is seeing more
> bundling deals — a flat-panel TV that comes with a free Blu-ray
> system, for example.
>
> But many doubt that such strategies will work and predict early
> discounts on spring goods. The signs are already there. Bebe has cut
> certain spring sweaters by 25 percent, while J.Crew has marked some
> spring items anywhere from 25 to 40 percent off, according to Amy
> Wilcox Noblin, an analyst at PaliCapital Inc.
>
> It will be years before shoppers are going to be enticed by discounts
> of less than 50 percent, said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's
> Research Group.
>
> Traditional stores have also had to dump more excess goods at off-
> price retailers like TJ Maxx, which reduce prices more, said Marshal
> Cohen, chief industry analyst at market research firm NPD Group Inc.
>
> But a bigger problem is liquidation sales at stores that are either
> closing specific locations or shutting down the entire business.
>
> Going-out-of-business sales at KB Toys and Linens 'N Things put
> pressure on other retailers even before Christmas, and analysts expect
> competition to get fiercer amid a likely spike in bankruptcy filings.
>
> James Schaye, president and CEO of Hudson Capital Partners LLC., which
> has overseen liquidations of Mervyns LLC, Tweeter Home Entertainment
> Group Inc. and Steve & Barry's, estimated that his company liquidated
> about $3 billion in merchandise in the October through December
> period, compared with about $400 million a year ago.
factor this in anyway you can... what happens to govt tax revenue
when prices and wages take a hit?
answer, they tank, defunding government... which then prints money
(since it can no longer sell bonds contrary to its lies on the
matter).
the printed money becomes worthless... so bread eventually costs 40
million dollars a loaf.
there are delays in the cycle making these direct effects.
you are looking that delay phenomena
Phil scott
== 11 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:37 pm
From: phil scott
On Jan 7, 8:08 am, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:51:38 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> > Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>
> > And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
> > boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>
> > And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>
> > Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
> > headed..75% discounts and more?
>
> > TMT
>
> That's more properly called "deflation":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_(economics)
>
> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
> inflation?
>
> --
> Regards, Curly
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 13 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the combo deflation (seen in wages as jobs go scarce) is comonly seen
with inflated cost of goods and food due to
the worth-less currency.
and it is the worst of the worst...the total collapse scenario if govt
prints money to pay its own ..which it does.
Phil scott
== 12 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:39 pm
From: phil scott
On Jan 7, 8:20 am, spamTHIS...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jan 7, 10:51 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>
> > And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
> > boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>
> > And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>
> > Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
> > headed..75% discounts and more?
>
> > TMT
>
> > After sales, will shoppers pay full price again?
> > By ANNE D'INNOCENZIO, AP Retail Writer Anne D'innocenzio, Ap Retail
> > Writer Wed Jan 7, 7:05 am ET
> > NEW YORK – Shoppers are getting used to those 75 percent off sale
> > signs, and that's bad news for merchants who worry they will also have
> > to quickly slash prices on spring goods to attract customers.
>
> > Anxieties about how rampant discounts have affected shoppers' psyches
> > and stores' profits are running high ahead of expected dismal December
> > sales figures on Thursday. The holiday season is anticipated to be the
> > worst in decades.
>
> > Already, retailers including Bebe Stores Inc. and J.Crew Group Inc.
> > are cutting prices on selected spring styles to lure sale-savvy
> > shoppers.
>
> > "It is a vicious cycle that no one wants to continue," said Gilbert
> > Harrison, chairman of Financo Inc., an investment banking firm
> > specializing in retailing. The discounts will be a key topic at
> > Financo's annual dinner on Monday for retail chief executives.
>
> > In addition, retailers expect competition from a rise in liquidation
> > sales — the fallout from the horrible holiday period.
>
> > Merchants struggling to clear out mounds of deeply discounted coats
> > and sweaters are wondering how they are going to get nervous shoppers
> > to splurge on new spring products.
>
> > The deep price cuts are making shoppers question the true value of
> > items. If they can get $200 jeans at 60 percent off, will they be
> > willing to pay the original price next fall?
>
> > "Our sense of what is fair and what is a good deal has changed," said
> > Michal Ann Strahilevitz, professor of marketing at the Golden Gate
> > University's Ageno School of Business. She said that a sale has to be
> > at least 70 percent off to be considered a bargain now.
>
> > Marcia Layton Turner, a mother of two from Rochester, N.Y., recently
> > walked away from an outfit that she spotted at a local Kohl's store
> > that was 50 percent off.
>
> > "Forty to 50 percent used to excite me," the 43-year-old writer said.
> > "Now, I want at least 70 percent." Turner says she has taken advantage
> > of 75 percent discounts on children's clothes in recent weeks and is
> > willing to wait to get the same type of deals in the coming months.
>
> > Consumers across the spectrum have been holding back.
>
> > Overall sales of apparel fell 17.3 percent from Nov. 30 through Jan.
> > 3, while footwear sales dropped 12 percent compared to the same period
> > a year ago, according to figures released Wednesday by SpendingPulse,
> > a data service provided by MasterCard Advisors that estimates U.S.
> > retail sales across all payment forms including cash and checks.
>
> > Sales of electronics and appliances dropped 21.4 percent, while luxury
> > goods suffered a 27.6 percent drop. Online sales rose 4.6 percent.
>
> > Fourth-quarter profits are likely to decline more than 19 percent,
> > said Ken Perkins, president of research company RetailMetrics LLC.
> > Excluding Wal-Mart Stores Inc., one of the few bright spots, he said
> > the drop is expected to reach almost 28 percent.
>
> > Perkins predicts that profits will keep falling into the first
> > quarter, projecting an 11 percent drop; excluding Wal-Mart, that
> > figure is likely to fall more than 17 percent.
>
> > The financial meltdown in September that led to an abrupt halt in
> > spending came too late for merchants to dramatically adjust spring
> > inventories. Many stores order goods four to seven months in advance.
>
> > And while spring inventories are estimated to be down as much as 30
> > percent from year-ago levels, many analysts say that inventories
> > should be down even more. Barclays Capital analyst Jeff Black believes
> > it will take at least until the back-to-school season to get
> > inventories in line with consumer demand, and even then stores will
> > still face the challenge of weaning shoppers away from deals.
>
> > For those shoppers who could still load up on deeply discounted
> > merchandise, the last few weeks have been paradise. Even before the
> > Thanksgiving weekend, the traditional start of the holiday shopping
> > season, Saks Fifth Avenue marked down shoes by 70 percent.
>
> > But earlier deals look measly compared with some current offers as
> > merchants try to get rid of their holiday products by the end of the
> > month. The upscale DKNY store on New York's Madison Avenue is
> > plastered with a sign proclaiming "Up to 90 percent off."
>
> > As retailers work to clear out old merchandise, analysts say many are
> > trying to hold back on discounting new winter and spring items. Dan de
> > Grandpre, editor-in-chief of dealnews.com, said he is seeing more
> > bundling deals — a flat-panel TV that comes with a free Blu-ray
> > system, for example.
>
> > But many doubt that such strategies will work and predict early
> > discounts on spring goods. The signs are already there. Bebe has cut
> > certain spring sweaters by 25 percent, while J.Crew has marked some
> > spring items anywhere from 25 to 40 percent off, according to Amy
> > Wilcox Noblin, an analyst at PaliCapital Inc.
>
> > It will be years before shoppers are going to be enticed by discounts
> > of less than 50 percent, said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's
> > Research Group.
>
> > Traditional stores have also had to dump more excess goods at off-
> > price retailers like TJ Maxx, which reduce prices more, said Marshal
> > Cohen, chief industry analyst at market research firm NPD Group Inc.
>
> > But a bigger problem is liquidation sales at stores that are either
> > closing specific locations or shutting down the entire business.
>
> > Going-out-of-business sales at KB Toys and Linens 'N Things put
> > pressure on other retailers even before Christmas, and analysts expect
> > competition to get fiercer amid a likely spike in bankruptcy filings.
>
> > James Schaye, president and CEO of Hudson Capital Partners LLC., which
> > has overseen liquidations of Mervyns LLC, Tweeter Home Entertainment
> > Group Inc. and Steve & Barry's, estimated that his company liquidated
> > about $3 billion in merchandise in the October through December
> > period, compared with about $400 million a year ago.
>
> The retail sector is going to have to adjust its expectations, and
> move towards a model where they are profitable each and every month of
> the year, not starting after thanksgiving!
>
> And yes, that means there are going to be a hell of a lot fewer
> retailers, and hopefully most of the malls collapse as well.
>
> Not that this'll be enough to cure us USA-ians of our expectation of
> absurd levels of consumption, but it'll be a start.
>
> Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
the primary driver is US govt bloat... from less than 1% of the GDP in
1901, to 48% 2001.
its not even remotely sustainable.
Phil scott
== 13 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:43 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:33:41 -0800, phil scott wrote:
> On Jan 7, 7:51 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Has the devaluation cycle begun?
>>
>> And if you can buy goods for a few cents on the dollar, why won't your
>> boss expect the same deal when it comes to labor costs?
>>
>> And will you see the degree of discounting in what you want to buy?
>>
>> Finally...is this a sign of where housing and transportation are
>> headed..75% discounts and more?
>>
>> TMT
>>
>> After sales, will shoppers pay full price again? By ANNE D'INNOCENZIO,
>> AP Retail Writer Anne D'innocenzio, Ap Retail Writer Wed Jan 7, 7:05 am
>> ET
>> NEW YORK – Shoppers are getting used to those 75 percent off sale
>> signs, and that's bad news for merchants who worry they will also have
>> to quickly slash prices on spring goods to attract customers.
>>
>> Anxieties about how rampant discounts have affected shoppers' psyches
>> and stores' profits are running high ahead of expected dismal December
>> sales figures on Thursday. The holiday season is anticipated to be the
>> worst in decades.
>>
>> Already, retailers including Bebe Stores Inc. and J.Crew Group Inc. are
>> cutting prices on selected spring styles to lure sale-savvy shoppers.
>>
>> "It is a vicious cycle that no one wants to continue," said Gilbert
>> Harrison, chairman of Financo Inc., an investment banking firm
>> specializing in retailing. The discounts will be a key topic at
>> Financo's annual dinner on Monday for retail chief executives.
>>
>> In addition, retailers expect competition from a rise in liquidation
>> sales — the fallout from the horrible holiday period.
>>
>> Merchants struggling to clear out mounds of deeply discounted coats and
>> sweaters are wondering how they are going to get nervous shoppers to
>> splurge on new spring products.
>>
>> The deep price cuts are making shoppers question the true value of
>> items. If they can get $200 jeans at 60 percent off, will they be
>> willing to pay the original price next fall?
>>
>> "Our sense of what is fair and what is a good deal has changed," said
>> Michal Ann Strahilevitz, professor of marketing at the Golden Gate
>> University's Ageno School of Business. She said that a sale has to be
>> at least 70 percent off to be considered a bargain now.
>>
>> Marcia Layton Turner, a mother of two from Rochester, N.Y., recently
>> walked away from an outfit that she spotted at a local Kohl's store
>> that was 50 percent off.
>>
>> "Forty to 50 percent used to excite me," the 43-year-old writer said.
>> "Now, I want at least 70 percent." Turner says she has taken advantage
>> of 75 percent discounts on children's clothes in recent weeks and is
>> willing to wait to get the same type of deals in the coming months.
>>
>> Consumers across the spectrum have been holding back.
>>
>> Overall sales of apparel fell 17.3 percent from Nov. 30 through Jan. 3,
>> while footwear sales dropped 12 percent compared to the same period a
>> year ago, according to figures released Wednesday by SpendingPulse, a
>> data service provided by MasterCard Advisors that estimates U.S. retail
>> sales across all payment forms including cash and checks.
>>
>> Sales of electronics and appliances dropped 21.4 percent, while luxury
>> goods suffered a 27.6 percent drop. Online sales rose 4.6 percent.
>>
>> Fourth-quarter profits are likely to decline more than 19 percent, said
>> Ken Perkins, president of research company RetailMetrics LLC. Excluding
>> Wal-Mart Stores Inc., one of the few bright spots, he said the drop is
>> expected to reach almost 28 percent.
>>
>> Perkins predicts that profits will keep falling into the first quarter,
>> projecting an 11 percent drop; excluding Wal-Mart, that figure is
>> likely to fall more than 17 percent.
>>
>> The financial meltdown in September that led to an abrupt halt in
>> spending came too late for merchants to dramatically adjust spring
>> inventories. Many stores order goods four to seven months in advance.
>>
>> And while spring inventories are estimated to be down as much as 30
>> percent from year-ago levels, many analysts say that inventories should
>> be down even more. Barclays Capital analyst Jeff Black believes it will
>> take at least until the back-to-school season to get inventories in
>> line with consumer demand, and even then stores will still face the
>> challenge of weaning shoppers away from deals.
>>
>> For those shoppers who could still load up on deeply discounted
>> merchandise, the last few weeks have been paradise. Even before the
>> Thanksgiving weekend, the traditional start of the holiday shopping
>> season, Saks Fifth Avenue marked down shoes by 70 percent.
>>
>> But earlier deals look measly compared with some current offers as
>> merchants try to get rid of their holiday products by the end of the
>> month. The upscale DKNY store on New York's Madison Avenue is plastered
>> with a sign proclaiming "Up to 90 percent off."
>>
>> As retailers work to clear out old merchandise, analysts say many are
>> trying to hold back on discounting new winter and spring items. Dan de
>> Grandpre, editor-in-chief of dealnews.com, said he is seeing more
>> bundling deals — a flat-panel TV that comes with a free Blu-ray system,
>> for example.
>>
>> But many doubt that such strategies will work and predict early
>> discounts on spring goods. The signs are already there. Bebe has cut
>> certain spring sweaters by 25 percent, while J.Crew has marked some
>> spring items anywhere from 25 to 40 percent off, according to Amy
>> Wilcox Noblin, an analyst at PaliCapital Inc.
>>
>> It will be years before shoppers are going to be enticed by discounts
>> of less than 50 percent, said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's
>> Research Group.
>>
>> Traditional stores have also had to dump more excess goods at off-
>> price retailers like TJ Maxx, which reduce prices more, said Marshal
>> Cohen, chief industry analyst at market research firm NPD Group Inc.
>>
>> But a bigger problem is liquidation sales at stores that are either
>> closing specific locations or shutting down the entire business.
>>
>> Going-out-of-business sales at KB Toys and Linens 'N Things put
>> pressure on other retailers even before Christmas, and analysts expect
>> competition to get fiercer amid a likely spike in bankruptcy filings.
>>
>> James Schaye, president and CEO of Hudson Capital Partners LLC., which
>> has overseen liquidations of Mervyns LLC, Tweeter Home Entertainment
>> Group Inc. and Steve & Barry's, estimated that his company liquidated
>> about $3 billion in merchandise in the October through December period,
>> compared with about $400 million a year ago.
>
>
>
>
> factor this in anyway you can... what happens to govt tax revenue when
> prices and wages take a hit?
>
> answer, they tank, defunding government... which then prints money
> (since it can no longer sell bonds contrary to its lies on the matter).
>
> the printed money becomes worthless... so bread eventually costs 40
> million dollars a loaf.
>
>
> there are delays in the cycle making these direct effects.
>
>
> you are looking that delay phenomena
>
>
>
> Phil scott
http://www.adolfthegreat.com/site/fileadmin/Image_Archive/Talent-Art/
GermanWorthlessMoney.jpg
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
== 14 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:46 pm
From: phil scott
On Jan 7, 10:15 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> <EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
>
> > In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
>
> >> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
> >> inflation?
>
> > Winston says Yes.
>
> Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
> (stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but you
> can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same time.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
in stagflation it is wages that stagnate or drop, and the price of
goods that inflate.
thus the term 'stag/flation' as counter intuitive as it seems.
so in that way there is no contradiction.. laid off or downsized
workers have that now as food prices rise and their income drops...
the worst of both worlds.
Phil scott
== 15 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:47 pm
From: phil scott
On Jan 7, 10:27 am, CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote:
> What I don't get is how can they give 75% off and not loose money?
> Did they mark it up 100% in the first place?
>
> Maybe they will start charging a fair mark up instead of trying to
> burn us every time.
gggaaaaaaaaassssppp... perish the thought.
== 16 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:49 pm
From: phil scott
On Jan 7, 10:30 am, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:15:58 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:
> > <EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
> >news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
> >> In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
> >>> inflation?
>
> >> Winston says Yes.
>
> > Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
> > (stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but
> > you can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same
> > time.
>
> Depends on your definition of "deflation."
>
> "Inflation destroys real value in money. Deflation creates real value in
> money. Alternatively, the term deflation was used by the classical
> economists to refer to a decrease in the money supply and credit; some
> economists, including many Austrian school economists, still use the word
> in this sense. The two meanings are closely related, since a decrease in
> the money supply is likely to cause a decrease in the price level."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation
>
> --
> Regards, Curly
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 13 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in the extreme cases of stagflation, a man will work all day for
half a bowl of rice.
the fiat currency used not relevant.
Phil scott
== 17 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:58 pm
From: phil scott
On Jan 7, 10:38 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "CanopyCo" <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d09a199d-ee1c-4fb0-95c4-2ea1e5e7c567@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> What I don't get is how can they give 75% off and not loose money?
>
> They can't. But they would lose more if it winds up as unsold inventory.
> They're clearing their inventory, which most retailers have to do from time
> to time -- at least, the ones that want to stay in business.
>
> The counterexample is the old hardware store that keeps inventory forever.
> The last one I know of around here went broke 15 years ago.
>
> >Did they mark it up 100% in the first place?
>
> Markup, markon...don't get us confused. <g> They more than double the price
> they paid for it.
>
> Clothing in big retailers is marked up around 60% or so. That means that
> they pay $4 and sell it for $10. Jewelry is around 70%. And so on.
>
> >Maybe they will start charging a fair mark up instead of trying to
> >burn us every time.
>
> Those are the "fair" markups. At those rates, they just make a profit.
>
> BTW, when I was marketing machine tools, our typical markup was 55%.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
brick and motar retail is going to be taking larger and larger hits as
the same goods can be sold on line with
a fraction of the storage costs... and in the case or 'order to suit'
on line, almost no storage costs.
This will put serious pressure on commcl real estate owners.. as its
potential renters can no longer afford the rents.
for the nation to recover that real estate will have to become part
of the manufacturing cycle...imo.
already we are seeing that in depressed home price markets, as empty
homes are rented or taken over by squatters and used to
make crack cocaine, speed, angel dust, pink pimps, or to grow
majijanna. I have no earthly idea what can be done with all of this
ludicrously over built retail space...especially as fully half of our
work force retires over the next 8 years and begin dropping deader
than hell shortly there after (80 million folk who will not give a
damn where the walmart is)
Phil scott
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Theory: The gov't nor the gangs want the drug war to end because it
makes so much money for them!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0ed8ad419ff9642d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 10:47 am
From: presidentbyamendment
On Jan 7, 8:07 am, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> I say it's a very solid theory. Look what happened when they tried to
> ban liquor
It's a very solid theory even before you factor in the CIA control of
the US cocaine market.
Ka CHIIIIIIIINGGGGGggggggg
RH
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone else seeing mystery phone numbers on Embarq long distance bill?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5143a3a3f5a603f2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 11:15 am
From: "Rod Speed"
s2000hondas2000@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 7, 1:03 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> s2000hondas2...@gmail.com wrote
>>
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Only fools/dinosaurs use checks anymore.
>>> DOT only takes checks, no cash, no cc.
>>
>> Only fools/dinosaurs let them get away with that.
>>
>> You elected those who 'run' operations like that, fuckwit.
> And? It's not costing me anything.
You have always been, and always will be, completely irrelevant, fuckwit.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save on Phone Calls
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81e9507772219fb7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 11:19 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Cheapo Groovo wrote:
> I'm using the MagicJack and Net10.
More fool you.
> Last year my my phone bills ran over $350, this year they should be under $150.
At 8c a call, for the total cost of the call, regardless of how long it lasts,
both national and international, with no fixed monthly charge at all, I wont
be spending anything like $150 and there is no hardware cost whatever either.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 11:21 am
From: clams_casino
Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>I'm using the MagicJack and Net10.
>
>Last year my my phone bills ran over $350, this year they should be
>under $150.
>====================================================================
>
>
>
I'm switching to Tracfone. Last year, my phone costs were about
$350. I expect to reduce that to about $110 this year.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Handmade hammocks at wholesale prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/852851191742a42e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:47 pm
From: annechisholm77@gmail.com
You can save a lot of money om really good quality hammocks at
http://bayhammocks.com.They give a 5 year warranty on most of their
products and offer an excellent net hammock for $50. Made in Canada
too - not a cheap one from offshore.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sorry link is wrong in hammock message
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df411d8ef22709ae?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 7 2009 12:50 pm
From: annechisholm77@gmail.com
Should be http://bayhammocks.com
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