http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* Frugal pre-paid funeral expenses? - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ce3b2b4cec57072f?hl=en
* Trac-fone - Cell phone question - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/faba6b29b488765b?hl=en
* Why I hate Washington Mutual (a rant) - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/02d22dacefd6cc05?hl=en
* Esurance is HORRIBLE for motorcycle quotes. - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d5e39a8484cd06ef?hl=en
* whither the ice house? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ece54484f7063e00?hl=en
* Huh -- the Anti-IRS tax people actually won in court -- what now? - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/877317972c660109?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal pre-paid funeral expenses?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ce3b2b4cec57072f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 2:55 pm
From: "Don K"
<bb90125@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185481985.545649.109330@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thank you everyone for the responses. Yes, this will be a suicide
> situation. My family has never been a fan of cremation, but at the
> same time I don't want to put them thru having to selecting a casket,
> tombstone, and all the other stuff. If I can take care of all that
> ahead of time by pre-paying, that will save them both money and
> inconvenience. My father in particular would be plenty upset about
> having to come up with another $9,000 for funeral expenses. I figure
> if I can take care of this stuff ahead of time it will be a win-win
> situation in terms of the expense and headaches.
>
Since in your original post, you mentioned that "we" live in a city,
you should really, really consider the mess you will leave for your
family to clean up and deal with, aside from those funeral details,
which are relatively trivial in the overall scheme of things.
I've seen the impact that suicides can have on family members in terms
guilt, anger, and hardship, especially if there is a spouse and kids involved.
Don
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 3:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Don K <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> <bb90125@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1185481985.545649.109330@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Thank you everyone for the responses. Yes, this will be a suicide
>> situation. My family has never been a fan of cremation, but at the
>> same time I don't want to put them thru having to selecting a casket,
>> tombstone, and all the other stuff. If I can take care of all that
>> ahead of time by pre-paying, that will save them both money and
>> inconvenience. My father in particular would be plenty upset about
>> having to come up with another $9,000 for funeral expenses. I figure
>> if I can take care of this stuff ahead of time it will be a win-win
>> situation in terms of the expense and headaches.
> Since in your original post, you mentioned that "we" live in a city,
> you should really, really consider the mess you will leave for your
> family to clean up and deal with, aside from those funeral details,
> which are relatively trivial in the overall scheme of things.
> I've seen the impact that suicides can have on family members in terms
> guilt, anger, and hardship, especially if there is a spouse and kids involved.
And plenty where its what makes sense too.
Stupid god botherers dont approve ? Their problem.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 5:24 pm
From: bb90125@yahoo.com
On Jul 26, 5:55 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> <bb90...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1185481985.545649.109330@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Thank you everyone for the responses. Yes, this will be a suicide
> > situation. My family has never been a fan of cremation, but at the
> > same time I don't want to put them thru having to selecting a casket,
> > tombstone, and all the other stuff. If I can take care of all that
> > ahead of time by pre-paying, that will save them both money and
> > inconvenience. My father in particular would be plenty upset about
> > having to come up with another $9,000 for funeral expenses. I figure
> > if I can take care of this stuff ahead of time it will be a win-win
> > situation in terms of the expense and headaches.
>
> Since in your original post, you mentioned that "we" live in a city,
> you should really, really consider the mess you will leave for your
> family to clean up and deal with, aside from those funeral details,
> which are relatively trivial in the overall scheme of things.
>
> I've seen the impact that suicides can have on family members in terms
> guilt, anger, and hardship, especially if there is a spouse and kids involved.
>
> Don
There is no spouse or kids involved, so if there was I could see your
point. But at other times a suicide can actually be the best situation
for everyone involved. It really can be a win-win. Few people will
admit that, but it's true.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 10:01 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
bb90125@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 26, 5:55 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>> <bb90...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1185481985.545649.109330@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Thank you everyone for the responses. Yes, this will be a suicide
>>> situation. My family has never been a fan of cremation, but at the
>>> same time I don't want to put them thru having to selecting a
>>> casket, tombstone, and all the other stuff. If I can take care of
>>> all that ahead of time by pre-paying, that will save them both
>>> money and inconvenience. My father in particular would be plenty
>>> upset about having to come up with another $9,000 for funeral
>>> expenses. I figure if I can take care of this stuff ahead of time
>>> it will be a win-win situation in terms of the expense and
>>> headaches.
>>
>> Since in your original post, you mentioned that "we" live in a city,
>> you should really, really consider the mess you will leave for your
>> family to clean up and deal with, aside from those funeral details,
>> which are relatively trivial in the overall scheme of things.
>>
>> I've seen the impact that suicides can have on family members in
>> terms
>> guilt, anger, and hardship, especially if there is a spouse and kids
>> involved.
> There is no spouse or kids involved, so if there was I could see your point.
It can still be true in that case too.
> But at other times a suicide can actually be the best situation
> for everyone involved. It really can be a win-win.
It can indeed.
> Few people will admit that, but it's true.
Yeah, most are rather horrified, mindlessly.
And then there's the fools that just decided that some damned god or other doesnt like it.
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 11:48 pm
From: Logan Shaw
bb90125@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 26, 5:55 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>> <bb90...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1185481985.545649.109330@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>> Thank you everyone for the responses. Yes, this will be a suicide
>>> situation. My family has never been a fan of cremation, but at the
>>> same time I don't want to put them thru having to selecting a casket,
>>> tombstone, and all the other stuff. If I can take care of all that
>>> ahead of time by pre-paying
>> I've seen the impact that suicides can have on family members in terms
>> guilt, anger, and hardship, especially if there is a spouse and kids involved.
> There is no spouse or kids involved, so if there was I could see your
> point. But at other times a suicide can actually be the best situation
> for everyone involved. It really can be a win-win.
I don't want to ramble on too much about this, so I'll get straight to
the point. Hopefully not an oversimplification, but basically suicide
is what happens when someone runs out of other ways (that they know of)
to cope with their situation[1].
As such, you are by definition in a difficult situation. By definition,
there are strong forces pressing you in a direction that you would not
normally be inclined to go. Under the weight of those forces, it
becomes hard to really be objective and think totally rationally.
Don is right about the effect that suicide can have on family and friends.
I know because I've seen (felt) it first-hand. But I don't say this to
make you feel guilty. I don't want to put more pressure when there is
already too much pressure. I merely bring it up to illustrate that if
you are thinking in terms of it being a "win-win", then probably that
indicates your view is being clouded.
The point of all this is that I am trying to encourage you to seek out
people who can support you and help you find ways to cope. This world
can be harsh sometimes, but don't let that make you think there aren't
people out there who are willing to help. I know that when my friend
chose suicide, he did not seem to understand what his friends would
have been willing to do for him, had they (we) known that he needed it.
- Logan
[1] barring circumstances like a truly terminal physical illness;
that is a bit of a different situation.
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TOPIC: Trac-fone - Cell phone question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/faba6b29b488765b?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 3:26 pm
From: Derald
"A Mate" <maybe@Australia.com.au> wrote:
>Will a pre-paid tracfone give us reasonable coverage in New England?
>
>Should we choose a gsm or CDMA tracfone?
>
>Can you recommend another better option?
IMO: In the U.S.A., at this time, CDMA will provide the best coverage.
Verizon provides excellent coverage of the East, including Tennessee, the
Carolinas, etc. northward. You can get Verizon-compatible phones inexpensively
on eBay.
This prepaid service provides access to the Verizon network:
http://www.pagepluswireless.com/
Refills are widely available online as well as over-the-counter, although,
over-the-counter availability is likely to vary with location, you reckon? I
can't address international rates but the w3 site has a contact email link.
Are you also considering access to the Internet?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why I hate Washington Mutual (a rant)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/02d22dacefd6cc05?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 3:44 pm
From: Dennis
On 26 Jul 2007 15:17:59 -0500, frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon) wrote:
>In article <qtida311nmp0ki7ika2mhvcjl91ln5t85n@4ax.com>, Abe <noone@nowhere.com> writes:
>>>You seem to be over the top on this. You wanted to take out a very large
>>>sum of cash, that the bank either didn't have on hand when you wanted it
>>>or for some reason they felt very uncomfortable transferring that amount
>>>of cash to you. They lost a check order - whoopee. And you don't even
>>>know if it was actually the bank that lost the check order.
>>
>> I disagree with cash on hand issue. I have worked in banking, even
>> small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
>> smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
>
>Honest question, why would an individual need $30,000 in cash, as opposed to a
>cashier's check? I'm curious. I've needed to withdraw that much or more a few
>times, generally downpayments for real estate, but I've always been happy with
>cashier's checks. (Although a wheelbarrow full of cash would be fun...)
My guess is a blackmail payment to avoid publishing of embarassing
photos of Real Bev in her turquoise suede go-go boots.
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 3:47 pm
From: Dennis
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:06:24 -0700, Abe <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>I disagree with cash on hand issue. I have worked in banking, even
>small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
>smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
I once tried to get US$10,000 cash from my account at the local BOA
branch. They couldn't give it to me and I had to settle for a
cashier's check. Lame.
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 4:00 pm
From: George Grapman
Dennis wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:06:24 -0700, Abe <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> I disagree with cash on hand issue. I have worked in banking, even
>> small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
>> smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
>
> I once tried to get US$10,000 cash from my account at the local BOA
> branch. They couldn't give it to me and I had to settle for a
> cashier's check. Lame.
>
> Dennis (evil)
This reminds me of a time I was in Reno. A race book was having a
handicapping contest. The winner got something like $10,000 and
immediately bought a round of drinks for every one in the room.
They wanted to give him a check but he insisted on cash saying that he
had pain his entry with cash ans wanted cash back. It took about ten
minutes with various execs talking to him before he agreed to a
compromise-cash but an armed security guard has to escort him to his car
in the casino garage.
Once I was at the track and a mother/son won an Pick 6 for something
like $25,000. In those cases the IRS immediately grabs 20 percent and
toy work it out the following April. They were debating cash or check.
The son kept insisting on a check for safety while the mother kept
talking about the $10,000 reporting requirement. He finally convinced
her that IRS would know either way and would deduct a cut so they opted
for a check.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 4:12 pm
From: George Grapman
George Grapman wrote:
> Dennis wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:06:24 -0700, Abe <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I disagree with cash on hand issue. I have worked in banking, even
>>> small neighborhood branches, and 30 grand is nothing. Even the
>>> smallest branches have many times that in the vault.
>>
>> I once tried to get US$10,000 cash from my account at the local BOA
>> branch. They couldn't give it to me and I had to settle for a
>> cashier's check. Lame.
>>
>> Dennis (evil)
>
> This reminds me of a time I was in Reno. A race book was having a
> handicapping contest. The winner got something like $10,000 and
> immediately bought a round of drinks for every one in the room.
> They wanted to give him a check but he insisted on cash saying that he
> had pain his entry with cash ans wanted cash back. It took about ten
> minutes with various execs talking to him before he agreed to a
> compromise-cash but an armed security guard has to escort him to his car
> in the casino garage.
> Once I was at the track and a mother/son won an Pick 6 for something
> like $25,000. In those cases the IRS immediately grabs 20 percent and
> toy work it out the following April. They were debating cash or check.
> The son kept insisting on a check for safety while the mother kept
> talking about the $10,000 reporting requirement. He finally convinced
> her that IRS would know either way and would deduct a cut so they opted
> for a check.
Minor correction: The IRS take would be 29 percent.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Esurance is HORRIBLE for motorcycle quotes.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d5e39a8484cd06ef?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 4:23 pm
From: Ward Abbott
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:50:18 -0700, jeffw@cyte.com wrote:
>That is over ELEVEN TIMES what
>two other companies would provide the EXACT same coverage
>for.
Did you want us to help you change your mind? Which one did you
choose?
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 8:39 pm
From: "Tockk"
"Ward Abbott" <presby@terian.com> wrote in message
news:r6bia398t53s8lee8kpbanpk5gv8n3sslu@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:50:18 -0700, jeffw@cyte.com wrote:
>
>>That is over ELEVEN TIMES what
>>two other companies would provide the EXACT same coverage
>>for.
>
> Did you want us to help you change your mind? Which one did you
> choose?
lol . . .
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 11:32 pm
From: Tim Campbell
The marketplace will remedy this...although think of all the business
folks who pay the top level prices for flights...they may get some
idiot or two who will actually pay that premium...
==============================================================================
TOPIC: whither the ice house?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ece54484f7063e00?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 5:27 pm
From: "Lou"
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:f89tn7$622@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> >nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> >> RW Salnick <salnick@no.spam.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Build the icehouse, and use it as the heat sink for conventional
> >>> refrigeration.
> >...
> >>> Would work great for air conditioning too.
> >>
> >> Not enough ice.
> >
> >It's just a question of scale, isn't it?
>
> Yes.
>
> >One could figure out how much ice is needed to keep their house cold
> >throughout the year and then build an ice house big enough.
>
> Yes.
>
> >I'm thinking one of those cheap steel buildings the size of a small
> >hanger with a foot or so of spray foam insulation on the inside. :)
>
> That could work, with a large enough hangar.
>
> >Any idea of just how much ice would we be talking about?
>
> Phila (not too hot) has 1101 F cooling degree days, so a typical house
> with a 400 Btu/h-F conductance and no internal heat gains would require
> 24hx1101x400 = 10.5 million Btu/year of cooling, which might come from
> 10.5M/144 = 73,400 pounds or about 1281 ft^3 of perfectly-insulated ice.
So that looks like a cube of ice about 11 feet on a side, around 8800
gallons of water.
11 feet on a side doesn't sound very enormous, and 8800 gallons is a pretty
small swimming pool. But moving 73,400 pounds by hand sounds somewhat
daunting - that would mean moving a little over 200 pounds every day for a
year. Of course, it's not freezing cold every day of the year, so you'd
need to multiply that daily total by some factor.
I'd also guess that these figures don't take into account that in the
Philadelphia area, not every day in winter is below freezing - some of the
ice squirreled away early in winter would melt (how much depends on how well
insulated it is), so you'd probably have to move more ice than these numbers
indicate.
Too, there's no such thing as perfect insulation, and no inhabited house has
no internal heat gains. You'd need a fudge factor that would up the total
as well.
The whole thing sounds a little dubious. If the goal is space cooling,
maybe it would be easier/cheaper to set up a system of buried pipes that
suck in outside air, cool it underground, and vent into the house? Or
instead of using ice, how about just using water - you'd need more, of
course, but the first leg of the summer warming cycle would be to cool the
house, then collect the warm water and store it for the winter, where the
first leg of the winter cooling cycle would be to warm the house.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 9:49 pm
From: Anthony Matonak
Lou wrote:
> <nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
>> Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>>> Any idea of just how much ice would we be talking about?
>> Phila (not too hot) has 1101 F cooling degree days, so a typical house
>> with a 400 Btu/h-F conductance and no internal heat gains would require
>> 24hx1101x400 = 10.5 million Btu/year of cooling, which might come from
>> 10.5M/144 = 73,400 pounds or about 1281 ft^3 of perfectly-insulated ice.
>
> So that looks like a cube of ice about 11 feet on a side, around 8800
> gallons of water.
>
> 11 feet on a side doesn't sound very enormous, and 8800 gallons is a pretty
> small swimming pool. But moving 73,400 pounds by hand sounds somewhat
> daunting ...
Why move it at all? Why not turn water into ice inside the ice house?
Some kind of automatic device could open doors, or circulate brine,
to 'let the cold in' whenever the outside temperature is below freezing.
> I'd also guess that these figures don't take into account that in the
> Philadelphia area, not every day in winter is below freezing - some of the
> ice squirreled away early in winter would melt (how much depends on how well
> insulated it is), so you'd probably have to move more ice than these numbers
> indicate.
So, one might figure an added fudge factor to cover unknowns and global
climate change and increase the mass of ice accordingly. If we use brine
filled loops of pipe inside the ice house then I would imagine we could
fill almost all of the volume with water/ice. An average two car garage
(24x24x12) has a volume of some 6900 f^2 so this would provide more than
five times the requirement for that Phila house.
> The whole thing sounds a little dubious.
Well, yes, of course it's dubious. Who wants to build a structure as big
or bigger than their house just to store ice throughout the year when
they can just buy an air conditioner?
Anthony
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Huh -- the Anti-IRS tax people actually won in court -- what now?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/877317972c660109?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 26 2007 8:28 pm
From: "Tockk"
Anyone follow this topic? All I know about it is that the IRS tells me I
gotta pay 'em, so I do. But it looks like this guy who says we don't have
to (at least not on earned income) had his day in court, and the jury ruled
for him, 12-0. Anyone know anything else?
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007707130321
Local attorney acquitted on federal income tax charges
Cryer stopped filing income taxes more than 10 years ago
July 13, 2007
By Loresha Wilson
A Shreveport attorney who has challenged the government for years on the
legality of filing federal income taxes has been acquitted on charges he
failed to file returns.
A federal jury unanimously found Tommy Cryer not guilty this week on two
misdemeanor counts of failure to file.
And according to Cryer, the prosecution dismissed two felony charges of tax
evasion prior to trial.
Attempts by The Times on Thursday to reach U.S. Attorney Donald Washington
or Bill Flanagan, first assistant U.S. attorney, were not successful. Calls
made to the two were not immediately returned.
"The court could not find a law that makes me liable or makes my revenues
taxable," Cryer said. "The Supreme Court has ruled that the government
cannot impose an income tax on anything but the profits and gains. When you
work for someone you give your service and labor in exchange for money, so
everything you make is not profit or gain. You put something into it."
Cryer was indicted last year on two counts of tax evasion. The indictment
alleged he evaded payment of $73,000 in income tax to the Internal Revenue
Service during 2000 and 2001.
Cryer created a trust listing himself as the trustee, and received payments
of dividends, interest and stock income to that trust, according to the
indictment. He also was accused of concealing his receipt of the sources of
income from the IRS by failing to file a tax return on behalf of that trust.
"I determined that my personal earnings were not 100 percent profits, some
were income," Cryer said. "I refuse to file, I refuse to pay unless they can
show me I have a lawful reason to pay."
"What I earned was my own personal labor. I am giving something in exchange.
I'm giving my property and I don't belong to anyone else."
Cryer says he stopped filing returns more than 10 years ago after he
investigated claims that income tax was a sham. He contends the law doesn't
actually tax personal earning.
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