Frugal Living: Jul 6, 2007

Friday, July 6, 2007

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supreme Court reverses century-old ban on price fixing, inviting
mobster-like behavior from manufacturers.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d8c8a3f5ef4e846?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 4:55 am
From: Larry Bud

On Jul 5, 11:39 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
> > On Jul 4, 2:46 pm, funnybunnyf...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Read all about it,
>
> > Liberal to English dictionary:
> > Sell your product for more than your competition: Price gouging
> > Sell your product for the same as your competition: Price fixing
> > Sell your product for less than your competition: Dumping
>
> > What's a businessman to do?
>
> The court is allowing manufacturers to set a minimum retail price.
> Hardly sounds like free enterprise.

Sure it is. Why shouldn't a company be allow to set terms on how
their product is sold? If the public and the retailers don't like it,
they won't buy it. Nobody is forcing anybody to do ANYTHING in cases
like these.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 4:56 am
From: Larry Bud

On Jul 5, 2:06 pm, Regie_Satanis <recalcitran...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 5, 8:16 am, Larry Bud <larrybud2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 4, 2:46 pm, funnybunnyf...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > Read all about it,
>
> > Liberal to English dictionary:
> > Sell your product for more than your competition: Price gouging
> > Sell your product for the same as your competition: Price fixing
> > Sell your product for less than your competition: Dumping
>
> > What's a businessman to do?
>
> Isn't dumping what businesses accuse everyone else of doing when they
> can't compete?

Yes. You just can't win.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 7:17 am
From: George Grapman

Larry Bud wrote:
> On Jul 5, 11:39 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>> Larry Bud wrote:
>>> On Jul 4, 2:46 pm, funnybunnyf...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> Read all about it,
>>> Liberal to English dictionary:
>>> Sell your product for more than your competition: Price gouging
>>> Sell your product for the same as your competition: Price fixing
>>> Sell your product for less than your competition: Dumping
>>> What's a businessman to do?
>> The court is allowing manufacturers to set a minimum retail price.
>> Hardly sounds like free enterprise.
>
> Sure it is. Why shouldn't a company be allow to set terms on how
> their product is sold? If the public and the retailers don't like it,
> they won't buy it. Nobody is forcing anybody to do ANYTHING in cases
> like these.
>
>
The manufacturer is forcing the retailer to sell at a set price
thereby limiting competition.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 8:36 am
From: Larry Bud

On Jul 6, 10:17 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
> > On Jul 5, 11:39 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> >> Larry Bud wrote:
> >>> On Jul 4, 2:46 pm, funnybunnyf...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> Read all about it,
> >>> Liberal to English dictionary:
> >>> Sell your product for more than your competition: Price gouging
> >>> Sell your product for the same as your competition: Price fixing
> >>> Sell your product for less than your competition: Dumping
> >>> What's a businessman to do?
> >> The court is allowing manufacturers to set a minimum retail price.
> >> Hardly sounds like free enterprise.
>
> > Sure it is. Why shouldn't a company be allow to set terms on how
> > their product is sold? If the public and the retailers don't like it,
> > they won't buy it. Nobody is forcing anybody to do ANYTHING in cases
> > like these.
>
> The manufacturer is forcing the retailer to sell at a set price
> thereby limiting competition.

The retailer is free to buy or not to buy the product from the
manufacturer according to the contact the two have signed. If the
retailer doesn't like the terms, they shouldn't have signed the
contract.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 3:50 pm
From: George Grapman

Larry Bud wrote:
> On Jul 6, 10:17 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>> Larry Bud wrote:
>>> On Jul 5, 11:39 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>>> Larry Bud wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 4, 2:46 pm, funnybunnyf...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> Read all about it,
>>>>> Liberal to English dictionary:
>>>>> Sell your product for more than your competition: Price gouging
>>>>> Sell your product for the same as your competition: Price fixing
>>>>> Sell your product for less than your competition: Dumping
>>>>> What's a businessman to do?
>>>> The court is allowing manufacturers to set a minimum retail price.
>>>> Hardly sounds like free enterprise.
>>> Sure it is. Why shouldn't a company be allow to set terms on how
>>> their product is sold? If the public and the retailers don't like it,
>>> they won't buy it. Nobody is forcing anybody to do ANYTHING in cases
>>> like these.
>> The manufacturer is forcing the retailer to sell at a set price
>> thereby limiting competition.
>
> The retailer is free to buy or not to buy the product from the
> manufacturer according to the contact the two have signed. If the
> retailer doesn't like the terms, they shouldn't have signed the
> contract.
>
But is is hardly free enterprise to force them to sell at a certain
price.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 1:15 pm
From: George

George Grapman wrote:

>>>>> The court is allowing manufacturers to set a minimum retail price.
>>>>> Hardly sounds like free enterprise.
>>>> Sure it is. Why shouldn't a company be allow to set terms on how
>>>> their product is sold? If the public and the retailers don't like it,
>>>> they won't buy it. Nobody is forcing anybody to do ANYTHING in cases
>>>> like these.
>>> The manufacturer is forcing the retailer to sell at a set price
>>> thereby limiting competition.
>>
>> The retailer is free to buy or not to buy the product from the
>> manufacturer according to the contact the two have signed. If the
>> retailer doesn't like the terms, they shouldn't have signed the
>> contract.
>>
> But is is hardly free enterprise to force them to sell at a certain
> price.

Sure it is. I am a manufacturer and decide to set a floor price. If you
don't agree you don't buy from me.

I don't know the reason it reached the Supreme Court but I suspect many
manufacturers are tired of dealing with end users because
"cheapstuff.com" is selling their products for cheap with the only
service they provide is a cheap price. Where previously a store might
make a few bucks on a sale and be able to offer assistance in the
purchase such as advising suitability for use etc.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:33 pm
From: ranck@vt.edu

In misc.consumers.frugal-living George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:

> > But is is hardly free enterprise to force them to sell at a certain
> > price.

> Sure it is. I am a manufacturer and decide to set a floor price. If you
> don't agree you don't buy from me.

No, the manufacturer can set the price it wants to sell to the retailer,
but why should they set the price the retailer *must* sell to the
consumer. If I buy 10 widgets for $1 each, and for some reason decide
to sell them for 50 cents each, why should the seller have any say in
the matter? If the manufacturer doesn't want to sell me any more, fine,
but once I own something the previous owner doesn't get to tell me what
to do with it. The *only* place in law where that isn't true is with
restrictive covenants on real estate deeds, and real estate law is
separate and different from regular trade laws.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 10:38 am
From: Larry Bud

On Jul 6, 11:50 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
> > On Jul 6, 10:17 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> >> Larry Bud wrote:
> >>> On Jul 5, 11:39 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> >>>> Larry Bud wrote:
> >>>>> On Jul 4, 2:46 pm, funnybunnyf...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>> Read all about it,
> >>>>> Liberal to English dictionary:
> >>>>> Sell your product for more than your competition: Price gouging
> >>>>> Sell your product for the same as your competition: Price fixing
> >>>>> Sell your product for less than your competition: Dumping
> >>>>> What's a businessman to do?
> >>>> The court is allowing manufacturers to set a minimum retail price.
> >>>> Hardly sounds like free enterprise.
> >>> Sure it is. Why shouldn't a company be allow to set terms on how
> >>> their product is sold? If the public and the retailers don't like it,
> >>> they won't buy it. Nobody is forcing anybody to do ANYTHING in cases
> >>> like these.
> >> The manufacturer is forcing the retailer to sell at a set price
> >> thereby limiting competition.
>
> > The retailer is free to buy or not to buy the product from the
> > manufacturer according to the contact the two have signed. If the
> > retailer doesn't like the terms, they shouldn't have signed the
> > contract.
>
> But is is hardly free enterprise to force them to sell at a certain
> price

Of course it's free enterprise. As a retailer, you're free to buy
from the OEM or not. There's absolutely no coercion going on.

Free enterprise means that you're allowed to freely set the terms on
the product you sell, and others are feel to accept those terms or
not. The buyer doesn't have some inherient right to buy a product
according to terms the seller doesn't agree to. THAT is not free
enterprise.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 10:41 am
From: Larry Bud

On Jul 6, 1:33 pm, r...@vt.edu wrote:
> In misc.consumers.frugal-living George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > George Grapman wrote:
> > > But is is hardly free enterprise to force them to sell at a certain
> > > price.
> > Sure it is. I am a manufacturer and decide to set a floor price. If you
> > don't agree you don't buy from me.
>
> No, the manufacturer can set the price it wants to sell to the retailer,
> but why should they set the price the retailer *must* sell to the
> consumer.

Why "should" they, or why should they be ALLOWED to? There's a
difference.

They should be allowed to because, with free enterprise, you should be
allowed to conjure up whatever contract you want, regardless of how
ridiculous it might seem to others. Whether or not someone agrees to
that contract will depend on the free market.

> If I buy 10 widgets for $1 each, and for some reason decide
> to sell them for 50 cents each, why should the seller have any say in
> the matter?

Because in your contract with your supplier, you agreed that they have
a say. If you didn't like those terms, you should find another
supplier.

> but once I own something the previous owner doesn't get to tell me what
> to do with it.

They do if you agreed to that in your contract with your supplier.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Continental Airlines and Kingfisher Airlines Announce Comprehensive
Partnership
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4511240fbbdee607?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:21 am
From: hamhrinep@gmail.com

'Kingfisher Airlines, one of the fastest growing airlines in India,
and Continental Airlines, announced that they have entered into a
comprehensive partnership for frequent flyer and airport lounge access
reciprocity and future codesharing, providing better service to
customers who travel between India and the U.S. and transfer between
the two carriers'. I found the details at

http://theanalystmagazine.com/pr/803.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to Use the Internet to Advertise, Promote and Market Your Business
or Website with Little or No Money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c346c93fa6f056f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:34 am
From: "dansoyke@webtv.net"

How to Use the Internet to Advertise, Promote and Market Your Business
or Website with Little or No Money
http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FInternet-Advertise-Promote-Business-Website%2Fdp%2F0910627576%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1183556373%26sr%3D1-1&tag=dominantwomen-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 8:45 am
From: clams casino

dansoyke@webtv.net wrote:

>How to Use the Internet to Advertise, Promote and Market Your Business
>
>
>
Somehow, a spammer using webtv is not where I'd look for up-to-date advice.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Adult Website Money: How to Build, Start, and Market an Adult Website
Business for Little to No Cost in 30 Days!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a547f07df514648d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:39 am
From: "dansoyke@webtv.net"

Adult Website Money: How to Build, Start, and Market an Adult Website
Business for Little to No Cost in 30 Days!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FAdult-Website-Money-Market-Business%2Fdp%2F0971300321%3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1183688940%26sr%3D1-1&tag=dominantwomen-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Internet Riches: The Simple Money-making Secrets of Online Millionaires
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d2be026ab348acb9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:43 am
From: "dansoyke@webtv.net"

Internet Riches: The Simple Money-making Secrets of Online
Millionaires
http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FInternet-Riches-Money-making-Secrets-Millionaires%2Fdp%2F0814473563&tag=dominantwomen-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

==============================================================================
TOPIC: eBay Income: How Anyone of Any Age, Location, and/or Background Can
Build a Highly Profitable Online Business with eBay
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a75c9bbad446c0d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:45 am
From: "dansoyke@webtv.net"

eBay Income: How Anyone of Any Age, Location, and/or Background Can
Build a Highly Profitable Online Business with eBay
http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FeBay-Income-Location-Background-Profitable%2Fdp%2F0910627584&tag=dominantwomen-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Multiple Streams of Internet Income: How Ordinary People Make
Extraordinary Money Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/970e74d546846dde?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:48 am
From: "dansoyke@webtv.net"

Multiple Streams of Internet Income: How Ordinary People Make
Extraordinary Money Online
http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMultiple-Streams-Internet-Income-Extraordinary%2Fdp%2F0471783277&tag=dominantwomen-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is the rationale to price something as $9.99 instead of $10?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca438cb73666596e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 3:01 pm
From: Jeff

Logan Shaw wrote:

> clams casino wrote:
>
>> Jeff wrote:
>>
>>> What is a more interesting question is when did gas stations start
>>> doing this fractional pricing? It goes back as far as I remember.
>
>
>> You must be getting up there in years as the practice dates back to
>> the late twenties.
>
>
> Impeccable logic there... He could be 6 years old and still be able to
> rightly say "goes back as far as I remember". ;-)

I thought the same thing, but could not have put it as eloquently as
that! Well done!

Jeff
>
> - Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FREE COUPONS FROM MAJOR STORES!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9e9db944549b163b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 9:21 am
From: ShoppingUniverse

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: fridge use power saving
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2cc260293c68afaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 9:57 am
From: val189

Whew... thanks guys for relieving me of this tremendous burden. : ))

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Finding 1 cent items on Amazon.com?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/953533e0b4429060?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 9:57 am
From: Abe

There are times when I buy an item from amazon.com that costs 24.99,
and I need to add a 1 cent item to get to $25, and free super saver
shipping.

I haven't found any easy way to find 1 cent (or even 5 cent or so)
items at Amazon, although I know they must exist.

Anyone have insight into this? Maybe a place that indexes these kinds
of items, or an Amazon search query that I haven't thought of?

Thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Empty Tomb And Trashing Da Vinci Code ! Jesus Died And Rose Again!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d56e719ca14232b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 10:01 am
From: tent

Jesus' tomb was sealed by the Roman government and
soldiers guarded it.The third day it was empty.Two angels appeared
to the women who were visiting the tomb early in the morning and told
them."Why you seek the living among the dead He is not here.He is
risen."Luke;24

Jesus did not die secretly in an unknown place.He died
publicly, in the broad day light. A whole city and a great crowd
watched him dying on the cross.His mother and his disciples were
there and he spoke to them.A series of events like darkness and
earthquake took place at the time of his death. Witnessing that the
Roman captain feared greatly and said,"Truly this was the Son of
God." Mathew; 27:54.
While Jesus was on the earth with his disciples, he
predicted about his sufferings, death and resurrection at least a
dozen times.Just before going to Jerusalem for the last time, Jesus
spoke to his disciples about everything that would happen to him
there.[About his death on the cross and being raised on the third
day] A few days before this Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and
spoke about his death which was about to take place in Jerusalem.
[Luke;9:30]
One of the main reasons Lord Jesus came to the earth
was to die on the cross and thus make atonement for the sins of all
mankind. About seven hundred years before the birth of Jesus,
Prophet Isaiah prophesied so many things concerning the life of
Jesus including his sufferings and death on the cross.In one place
he wrote like this "He was wounded for our transgressions, He was
bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon
Him, And by His stripes we are healed."Isaiah;53:5 Jesus came as the
Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.This is why Jesus
died on the cross-As the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the
world..Jesus spoke about this," No one takes it [ My life] from Me,
but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have
power to take it again"John;10:18 Just as he said he would Jesus
gave up his life and took it back.On the third day Jesus rose from
the dead and showed the nail marks on his hands to his disciples and
proved that he died and rose again.Why Jesus Died And Rose Again ?
To find out more about this in detail please visit ;
http://www.gilead.ws

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 10:20 am
From: noone@nowhere.com

>Jesus did not die secretly in an unknown place.He died
>publicly, in the broad day light. A whole city and a great crowd
>watched him dying on the cross.His mother and his disciples were
>there and he spoke to them.A series of events like darkness and
>earthquake took place at the time of his death. Witnessing that the
>Roman captain feared greatly and said,"Truly this was the Son of
>God." Mathew; 27:54.
>http://www.gilead.ws
Fuck you. Jesus was a pedophile and buttfucker to boot.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 10:20 am
From: Abe

> Jesus' tomb was sealed by the Roman government and
>soldiers guarded it.The third day it was empty.Two angels appeared
>to the women who were visiting the tomb early in the morning and told
>them."Why you seek the living among the dead He is not here.He is
>risen."Luke;24
>To find out more about this in detail please visit ;
>http://www.gilead.ws
Fuck you. Jesus was a pedophile and buttfucker to boot.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Google Spider Goats [A public information film for all Americans]
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86d63ff4ecca18bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 10:42 am
From: Custard Cream

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6397669727183502193

Google Spider Goats is an interactive, informative documentary/
compilation that goes from the fraud that is known as the Federal
Reserve to World Trade Center 7 in less than 50 minutes. A great film
for waking up new audiences to how the United States of America's
citizens are being subjected to massive deception. The film has been
made for both new naive audiences with small attention spans, and
hardcore truth deniers.

Google Spider Goats proudly uses clips from:

MARTIAL LAW 9/11: RISE OF THE POLICE STATE TERROR STORM MONOPOLY MEN
MONEY MASTERS CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY PAINFUL DECEPTIONS DEDICATED &
MORE

You are encouraged to go see those films in their entirety.

**THIS FILM IS DEDICATED TO AARON RUSSO AND HIS BATTLE WITH CANCER**

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SILICONE GASKET for FAGOR pressure cooker
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cc7dae9b6b220cb4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:50 pm
From: padams2700@bellsouth.net (Adam)

On 28 Feb 2007 15:28:16 -0800, "nucleus" <rose122550@yahoo.com> wrote:

>does anyone here have any experience with longevity of the Fagor
>SILICONE GASKET for pressure cookers, as compared to the
>PLAIN RUBBER GASKET?

I still use my original gasket. The Fagor is four years old and I use
it minimum of twice a week.

>we now need our third gasket for our Fagor pressure cooker. seems
>like Fagor has a bad design of their pressure cooker or a bad
>design/selection of rubber material for their gasket. we have tried
>all of the tricks for sealing the gasket, from oil to vaseline, with
>vaseline
>being the best suggestion.

As has been said - those products have deterioated your gasket
quicker.

>we suspect that Fagor's requirement that the gasket be replaced every
>12 months, is a ploy to keep draining the consumer's purse.

As I said, four years and counting no problem here.

>the plain gasket was NEVER a problem with the old MIRRO pressure
>cooker.
>
>COMMENTS ???
>

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* iPhone is going on sale in Europe when? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/69633508a7d9768d?hl=en
* Gas saving (automobile) - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8d72a95f7c4bb0f8?hl=en
* What is the rationale to price something as $9.99 instead of $10? - 8
messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca438cb73666596e?hl=en
* Supreme Court reverses century-old ban on price fixing, inviting mobster-
like behavior from manufacturers. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d8c8a3f5ef4e846?hl=en
* Ever bought a car out of state? - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3ff1b88b5bbe9c2b?hl=en
* Energy usage - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6cc6fc4ef82655e4?hl=en
* Whole House Automation - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e8fd71eb5d77f2f1?hl=en
* july apartment specials apartments apt Houston Tx - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b9a1c4ed913db441?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: iPhone is going on sale in Europe when?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/69633508a7d9768d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 9:49 am
From: kaash

iPhone is going on sale in Europe when? Check it
http://mobilephone-guide.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphone-is-going-on-sale-in-europe-when.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 9:51 am
From: kaash

iPhone is going on sale in Europe when? Check it
http://mobilephone-guide.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphone-is-going-on-sale-in-europe-when.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gas saving (automobile)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8d72a95f7c4bb0f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 1:15 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Just A User wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>>>> George wrote:
>>>>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>>>>> Okay frugal car people, here is the story. I bought a very frugal
>>>>>>> auto about 1 year ago. It started out great on gas. I have been
>>>>>>> keeping a gas log since the first day I owned it. It started out
>>>>>>> great, 40mpg. But it has been a downhill slide since then. On the
>>>>>>> most recent tank top up it only got 23.3 mpg. I only drive this
>>>>>>> car about 30 to 50 miles a week. Most of the trips are to and
>>>>>>> from work (30 miles a week) so the trips are right around 3
>>>>>>> miles. I drive very conservatively and use the a/c as little as
>>>>>>> possible. Now I know that cold engines use much more fuel than
>>>>>>> warm engines. I have considered buying a engine pre-heater. Has
>>>>>>> anyone ever used one? How about making it solar powered for sunny
>>>>>>> days? I don't want to spend a bundle on saving fuel, but to go
>>>>>>> from 40 to 23 is a significant reduction. Thanks for any advise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>> It sounds more like you should take it in for a service check to
>>>>>> find out why the fuel economy dropped so radically.
>>>>> I guess I should have mentioned I had the car tuned up 1000 miles
>>>>> ago.
>>>> Looks like whoever did that fucked it up.
>>
>>> Doubtful. Car runs great other than mileage.
>>
>> It isnt hard to get that result. Just installing the wrong air filter
>> can do that.
>>
> But it's been a slow decline. It didn't just drop from 40 to 23 over night.
>
> Here is my gas log.
>
>> 9/23/06 7.3 51582
>> 10/21/06 7.1 51930 49.01
>> 11/4/06 3.7 52042 30.27
>> 11/16/06 8.1 52297 31.48
>> 11/21/06 8.1 52566 33.20
>> 1/2/07 7.9 52778 26.83 tune up & oil change
>> 1/11/07 2.7 52851 27.03
>> 1/27/07 3.1 52933 26.45
>> 2/13/07 4.4 53058 28.40
>> 3/3/07 4.5 53174 25.77 inflated tires to 50psi
>> 3/26/07 4.9 53311 27.95 lowered tire pressure to 26psi
>> 4/18/07 4.6 53438 27.60
>> 5/14/07 5.0 53574 27.2 new r/r tire
>> 6/10/07 5.0 53705 26.2
>> 7/3/07 5.2 53829 23.8 added fuel inj cleaner
>
>
> Ken

I don't see a slide. Your first figure, 49, is quite high. I wonder if
you misread 51682 for 51582. That would mean 35 mpg.

Then it's about 32 mpg for a month in which you averaged 21 miles a day.

Then from November 21 until June 10 you averaged about 27 mpg and drove
less than 6 miles a day. If you aren't driving far, the engine will
spend a higher percentage of operating time below optimum temperature.
Also, on short trips you probably spend a higher percentage of the time
getting up to speed and running the engine just to keep it ready to go.
Gas engines don't idle and coast efficiently. That's where diesels
and hybrids have an advantage.

Your Metro may be fine. For people who really care about mileage, Honda
has been working on a 50cc hybrid scooter.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>>>>> George wrote:
>>>>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>>>>> Okay frugal car people, here is the story. I bought a very
>>>>>>> frugal auto about 1 year ago. It started out great on gas. I
>>>>>>> have been keeping a gas log since the first day I owned it. It
>>>>>>> started out great, 40mpg. But it has been a downhill slide
>>>>>>> since then. On the most recent tank top up it only got 23.3
>>>>>>> mpg. I only drive this car about 30 to 50 miles a week. Most of
>>>>>>> the trips are to and from work (30 miles a week) so the trips
>>>>>>> are right around 3 miles. I drive very conservatively and use
>>>>>>> the a/c as little as possible. Now I know that cold engines use
>>>>>>> much more fuel than warm engines. I have considered buying a
>>>>>>> engine pre-heater. Has anyone ever used one? How about making
>>>>>>> it solar powered for sunny days? I don't want to spend a bundle
>>>>>>> on saving fuel, but to go from 40 to 23 is a significant
>>>>>>> reduction. Thanks for any advise. Ken
>>>>>> It sounds more like you should take it in for a service check to
>>>>>> find out why the fuel economy dropped so radically.
>>>>> I guess I should have mentioned I had the car tuned up 1000 miles
>>>>> ago.
>>>> Looks like whoever did that fucked it up.
>>
>>> Doubtful. Car runs great other than mileage.
>>
>> It isnt hard to get that result. Just installing the wrong air
>> filter can do that.

> But it's been a slow decline. It didn't just drop from 40 to 23 over night.

Then you should have said that originally.

> Here is my gas log.

>> 9/23/06 7.3 51582
>> 10/21/06 7.1 51930 49.01
>> 11/4/06 3.7 52042 30.27
>> 11/16/06 8.1 52297 31.48
>> 11/21/06 8.1 52566 33.20
>> 1/2/07 7.9 52778 26.83 tune up & oil change

Looks rather like you fucked up there somewhere.

>> 1/11/07 2.7 52851 27.03
>> 1/27/07 3.1 52933 26.45
>> 2/13/07 4.4 53058 28.40
>> 3/3/07 4.5 53174 25.77 inflated tires to 50psi

That makes no sense.

>> 3/26/07 4.9 53311 27.95 lowered tire pressure to 26psi
>> 4/18/07 4.6 53438 27.60
>> 5/14/07 5.0 53574 27.2 new r/r tire
>> 6/10/07 5.0 53705 26.2
>> 7/3/07 5.2 53829 23.8 added fuel inj cleaner

And there too. Every time you touch it, it gets worse.

The rest of the variation is most likely just your driving behaviour
and maybe the gradual deterioration of something like the O2 sensor.

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 6:01 pm
From: Jeff

joe12sil@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1183651519.158978.250660@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> What is the rationale to price something as $9.99 instead of $10? Tax
> is mandatory except for food in many states, so a merchandize priced
> as $9.99 will almost always end up costing more than $10, then why in
> U.S. such pricing game is still being played?
>
> Particularly funny is the gas price, which is fluctuating hourly
> anyway, but is still priced as, say, $3.179 instead of $3.18 outright.
> The 1/10th of cent is always marked in most gas stations.
>

In Indiana, sales tax is included in the pump price for gasoline. They
still price it with the added 9/10 cent.

> If tax is to be paid anyway, why isn't it included in the advertised
> price, straightforwardly? If government mandated taxes have to be
> collected in telephone bill, why are they not included in the total
> cost in the advertisement in the beginning, to avoid confusions to the
> consumers that a $20 all-inclusive phone package is actually ended up
> $40 shown in the bill a month later.
>
> In Europe, every merchandise's price already includes taxes. Final
> expense in a restaurant bill always includes the tax and tip already.
> No any extra, hidden cost. It is so relaxing.
>
> The difficulty here sometime for the vendor is, as the in the
> following advertised example: "Brake Service: only $299.00-Originally
> $409.00". They will never state like this "Brake Service: only $309.00-
> Originally $399.00"? See the huge difference!
>
> An economy that every imaginable business practice of misleading
> consumers to make money has been invented and implemented, including
> Corporate America's pension scheme and national Social Security
> pyramid scheme.
>

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 12:17 pm
From: Abe

Oh God, this subject again?

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 3:35 pm
From: Ward Abbott

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:05:19 -0700, joe12sil@yahoo.com wrote:

>Particularly funny is the gas price, which is fluctuating hourly
>anyway, but is still priced as, say, $3.179 instead of $3.18 outright.
>The 1/10th of cent is always marked in most gas stations.

If it is so easy to price gas at 3.179.............why in the world
hasn't a station priced their gas at 3.174? Could be done...and the
price is lower.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 5:39 am
From: "Rod Speed"

joe12sil@yahoo.com wrote

> What is the rationale to price something as $9.99 instead of $10?

It looks cheaper to the stupids.

> Tax is mandatory except for food in many states, so a merchandize
> priced as $9.99 will almost always end up costing more than $10,
> then why in U.S. such pricing game is still being played?

Because most buy on the sticker price not what they actually pay.

> Particularly funny is the gas price, which is fluctuating hourly
> anyway, but is still priced as, say, $3.179 instead of $3.18 outright.
> The 1/10th of cent is always marked in most gas stations.

Same reason, it looks cheaper.

> If tax is to be paid anyway, why isn't it included
> in the advertised price, straightforwardly?

For the same reason the final cost isnt what
is advertised, it looks cheaper if you dont.

> If government mandated taxes have to be collected in telephone bill,
> why are they not included in the total cost in the advertisement in the
> beginning, to avoid confusions to the consumers that a $20 all-inclusive
> phone package is actually ended up $40 shown in the bill a month later.

Because it looks cheaper the way they advertise it.

Some countrys dont allow it to be advertised like that, it has to
be advertised with the taxes included in the advertised price.

> In Europe, every merchandise's price already includes taxes.

Its not quite that absolute, but yes, the advertised price usually includes the taxes.

You still see that x.99 approach tho.

> Final expense in a restaurant bill always includes the tax and tip already.

Wrong, not always, particularly with the tip.

> No any extra, hidden cost. It is so relaxing.

You still see that x.99 approach tho.

> The difficulty here sometime for the vendor is, as the in the following
> advertised example: "Brake Service: only $299.00-Originally $409.00".
> They will never state like this "Brake Service: only $309.00- Originally
> $399.00"? See the huge difference!

Its a pretty trivial difference in fact.

> An economy that every imaginable business practice of misleading
> consumers to make money has been invented and implemented,

Have fun explaining how come the x.99 approach is so common world wide.

> including Corporate America's pension scheme
> and national Social Security pyramid scheme.

Do the decent thing and set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 10:05 pm
From: Jeff

Ward Abbott wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:05:19 -0700, joe12sil@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>Particularly funny is the gas price, which is fluctuating hourly
>>anyway, but is still priced as, say, $3.179 instead of $3.18 outright.
>>The 1/10th of cent is always marked in most gas stations.
>
>
> If it is so easy to price gas at 3.179.............why in the world
> hasn't a station priced their gas at 3.174? Could be done...and the
> price is lower.

Or why not: 3.178? or 3.17999?

The reason they do this is that for two identical nearby gas staions.
More peple will go to the one advertising 3.17(9), that the one
advertising 3.18(0). Of course this is less of a come on now when a
penny is so little; than when gas was priced at 22 cents and the extra
penny was a sizable amount of money. 22 was clearly less than 23.
Remember that the 9 is always in small type.

What is a more interesting question is when did gas stations start
doing this fractional pricing? It goes back as far as I remember.

Jeff

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 6:34 pm
From: "Lou"

<joe12sil@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183651519.158978.250660@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> What is the rationale to price something as $9.99 instead of $10?

Because people buy more stuff priced at $9.99 than they do when it's priced
at $10.00.

It lets companies advertise a lower price, and puts the blame for the higher
price on the government.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 6:40 pm
From: clams casino

Jeff wrote:

>
>
> The reason they do this is that for two identical nearby gas
> staions. More peple will go to the one advertising 3.17(9), that the
> one advertising 3.18(0). Of course this is less of a come on now when
> a penny is so little; than when gas was priced at 22 cents and the
> extra penny was a sizable amount of money. 22 was clearly less than
> 23. Remember that the 9 is always in small type.
>
> What is a more interesting question is when did gas stations start
> doing this fractional pricing? It goes back as far as I remember.
>
> Jeff

You must be getting up there in years as the practice dates back to the
late twenties.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 5:43 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:11:44 -0700, Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>One word answer: Psychology.

Wait a minute. I count 4 words there.
Am I missing something?

--Vic

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 11:06 am
From: Regie_Satanis

On Jul 5, 8:16 am, Larry Bud <larrybud2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 4, 2:46 pm, funnybunnyf...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Read all about it,
>
> Liberal to English dictionary:
> Sell your product for more than your competition: Price gouging
> Sell your product for the same as your competition: Price fixing
> Sell your product for less than your competition: Dumping
>
> What's a businessman to do?

Isn't dumping what businesses accuse everyone else of doing when they
can't compete?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ever bought a car out of state?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3ff1b88b5bbe9c2b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 2:46 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

We are going on vacation in a couple of weeks. We'll be flying out to the
Seattle area. We had planned on buying a van out there, then taking 3 weeks
to drive up into Canada and back across the country on a road trip. I
actually have a van lined up to buy on our arrival.

Unfortunately, we've run into a lot of red tape type problems. Washington
state will only issue a 3 day temporary license plate for the vehicle, which
certainly isn't long enough to do what we want. I'm not even sure if Canada
would let us in with something like that on there. Considering how we drive,
it really isn't even enough time to get back home. Getting the title
transferred to us will be no problem, so I guess it is just the plates that
represent the problem for us.

I contacted our local bureau of motor vehicles and asked if I could just
get the title now (by having the owner sign and mail a form, etc.) and get
Ohio plates to take out to it. They said no, because they supposedly have
to do a $3 inspection to make sure the VIN matches what I put on the
paperwork.

I'm essentially being told I can't legally do this by both my home state,
and by the state where I want to buy the vehicle. I'm certainly not about
to try driving across country and then back out to Washington to try to make
everyone happy, just because of some $3 inspection.

What are my options? I've already told the guy that we'll take the van,
and to consider it sold. I've told him where to meet us, when to meet us,
and that he gets the cash when we get the title. I know it's old fashioned,
but even though we didn't shake on it, since I told him I'd take it, I feel
like I'm obligated to follow through. Yet I don't want to end up stuck out
there unable to legally drive the thing, or something.

I'm tempted to just get the title for it in my name out there, then put my
current vanity plates on it and drive it during the vacation. That way, I
would have current license and registration, both legal, and both in my
name. That is the only thing I can think of right now that might get all of
this to work out.

I do know that plates don't stay with the car, because every time a person
has sold me a used car, they take their plates off. I took our plates off
when I sold our old car to someone else. So, I don't think they are
supposed to be linked to the auto - I think they are actually linked to the
person. The plates I'm currently using are vanity plates that I've now had
on 3 different cars over the years. As I sell one and get a new one, I take
the plates from the old one and put on the new one. I plan on keeping the
same plates for 30 years, unless someone steals them or something.

The problem is, my wife is up nights worrying about this. She thinks the
cops are going to impound our vehicle at the Canadian border or something.
I've explained that I've already checked into everything I could think of to
do it right. However, it seems that both Washington (by offering only a 3
day temporary license) and Ohio (by not allowing me to get plates or
registration without physically showing them the car) won't let us do it in
a way that should be properly done.

What are my alternatives? I mean, do I have to drive all the way over to
Idaho or Montana or something and hope they will let me get something longer
than a 3 day temporary license? If you have any helpful ideas or
suggestions for how we can legitimately get this done, I'd really appreciate
hearing them. Thanks!

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 3:05 pm
From: clams casino

OhioGuy wrote:

> We are going on vacation in a couple of weeks. We'll be flying out to the
>Seattle area. We had planned on buying a van out there, then taking 3 weeks
>to drive up into Canada and back across the country on a road trip.
>

Be sure you have a valid proof of insurance card for Canada (it's in
addition to your US proof).

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 3:11 pm
From: "Chloe"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:f6jeak$eal$1@aioe.org...
> We are going on vacation in a couple of weeks. We'll be flying out to
> the Seattle area. We had planned on buying a van out there, then taking 3
> weeks to drive up into Canada and back across the country on a road trip.
> I actually have a van lined up to buy on our arrival.
>
> Unfortunately, we've run into a lot of red tape type problems.
> Washington state will only issue a 3 day temporary license plate for the
> vehicle, which certainly isn't long enough to do what we want. I'm not
> even sure if Canada would let us in with something like that on there.
> Considering how we drive, it really isn't even enough time to get back
> home. Getting the title transferred to us will be no problem, so I guess
> it is just the plates that represent the problem for us.
>
> I contacted our local bureau of motor vehicles and asked if I could just
> get the title now (by having the owner sign and mail a form, etc.) and get
> Ohio plates to take out to it. They said no, because they supposedly have
> to do a $3 inspection to make sure the VIN matches what I put on the
> paperwork.
>
> I'm essentially being told I can't legally do this by both my home state,
> and by the state where I want to buy the vehicle. I'm certainly not about
> to try driving across country and then back out to Washington to try to
> make everyone happy, just because of some $3 inspection.
>
> What are my options? I've already told the guy that we'll take the van,
> and to consider it sold. I've told him where to meet us, when to meet us,
> and that he gets the cash when we get the title. I know it's old
> fashioned, but even though we didn't shake on it, since I told him I'd
> take it, I feel like I'm obligated to follow through. Yet I don't want to
> end up stuck out there unable to legally drive the thing, or something.
>
> I'm tempted to just get the title for it in my name out there, then put
> my current vanity plates on it and drive it during the vacation. That
> way, I would have current license and registration, both legal, and both
> in my name. That is the only thing I can think of right now that might
> get all of this to work out.
>
> I do know that plates don't stay with the car, because every time a
> person has sold me a used car, they take their plates off. I took our
> plates off when I sold our old car to someone else. So, I don't think
> they are supposed to be linked to the auto - I think they are actually
> linked to the person. The plates I'm currently using are vanity plates
> that I've now had on 3 different cars over the years. As I sell one and
> get a new one, I take the plates from the old one and put on the new one.
> I plan on keeping the same plates for 30 years, unless someone steals them
> or something.
>
> The problem is, my wife is up nights worrying about this. She thinks the
> cops are going to impound our vehicle at the Canadian border or something.
> I've explained that I've already checked into everything I could think of
> to do it right. However, it seems that both Washington (by offering only
> a 3 day temporary license) and Ohio (by not allowing me to get plates or
> registration without physically showing them the car) won't let us do it
> in a way that should be properly done.
>
> What are my alternatives? I mean, do I have to drive all the way over to
> Idaho or Montana or something and hope they will let me get something
> longer than a 3 day temporary license? If you have any helpful ideas or
> suggestions for how we can legitimately get this done, I'd really
> appreciate hearing them. Thanks!

I always wonder why you post here, because apparently you don't pay any
attention to anything anyone says. But don't stop: your posts have more
entertainment value than anything I've seen in quite a while.

How about you contact the Ohio DMV and ask them about the legality of
switching those plates? It could be the answer to your problem, or it could
be that if a cop stops you, runs the license plate and finds out it doesn't
match up with the make of vehicle, you'll end up in a huge hassle. Extra
points for an even huger hassle when you're across the border in a foreign
country.

And no, you don't actually have to drive over to Idaho or Montana, you can
just contact *their* DMVs and ask the procedure.

Your wife ought to be up nights worrying. If nothing else, over your
apparent determination to buy a vehicle sight unseen and without finding out
whether or how you can transfer ownership. But even more over the exciting
events that doubtless lie ahead of her and your toddlers on this vacation.
Be sure to let us know how everything turns out, okay?

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 3:39 pm
From: Ward Abbott

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 14:46:44 -0400, "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

> I'm essentially being told I can't legally do this by both my home state,
>and by the state where I want to buy the vehicle.

How LONG are you going to harang on this? It's not legal as you have
found out and not a single person here encouraged you to try it...but
you are back again!!

It can't be done. You know it.....you are acting like a seven year
old throwing a temper tantrum.

GET ON with your life. Rent a damn car and enjoy your vacation.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 4:49 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

> How LONG are you going to harang on this? It's not legal as you have
> found out and not a single person here

What isn't legal? So far, the only things I have found out I can't do
are:

1) Get new plates and registration in Ohio before I leave, without the
vehicle present (because of the $3 VIN inspection)

2) Get more than a 3 day temporary tag in Washington

There are a lot of other options other than those two, so I thought it
would be prudent to get ideas from other folks. When I call the government,
I get told what I CAN'T do, instead of what I CAN do that will help me out.
Maybe it is just the mindset of government workers or something.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 9:03 pm
From: ranck@vt.edu

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> Unfortunately, we've run into a lot of red tape type problems. Washington
> state will only issue a 3 day temporary license plate for the vehicle, which

You mean you can't get a title and registration in Washington? Why not?

> I contacted our local bureau of motor vehicles and asked if I could just
> get the title now (by having the owner sign and mail a form, etc.) and get
> Ohio plates to take out to it. They said no, because they supposedly have
> to do a $3 inspection to make sure the VIN matches what I put on the
> paperwork.

You mean they won't accept a sworn afadavit from a Washington police or DMV
person?

> What are my options? I've already told the guy that we'll take the van,
> and to consider it sold. I've told him where to meet us, when to meet us,
> and that he gets the cash when we get the title. I know it's old fashioned,
> but even though we didn't shake on it, since I told him I'd take it, I feel
> like I'm obligated to follow through. Yet I don't want to end up stuck out
> there unable to legally drive the thing, or something.

Ask Washington if you can register it in their state with a regular plate
with an Ohio address. Lots of people own vehicles in more than one state
and they only live in one. Maybe rent a post office box in Washington and
then register it. Once you get home, assuming you plan to drive it back
to Ohio and not just resell it, you tranfer title to Ohio then.

> What are my alternatives? I mean, do I have to drive all the way over to
> Idaho or Montana or something and hope they will let me get something longer
> than a 3 day temporary license? If you have any helpful ideas or
> suggestions for how we can legitimately get this done, I'd really appreciate
> hearing them. Thanks!

Actually, check with Vermont. Seriously. They will allow people from out
of state to register a vehicle without ever having to go to Vermont, all by
mail.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 10:19 pm
From: Jeff

OhioGuy wrote:

>>How LONG are you going to harang on this? It's not legal as you have
>>found out and not a single person here
>
>
> What isn't legal? So far, the only things I have found out I can't do
> are:
>
> 1) Get new plates and registration in Ohio before I leave, without the
> vehicle present (because of the $3 VIN inspection)
>
> 2) Get more than a 3 day temporary tag in Washington

So, you have two easy options.

1) Just use your existing Ohio plates, after all you aren't moving to
Oregon. It's unlikely you'll be stopped and if you do the worst that
will happen is a ticket, and they won't extradite you from Ohio if you
fail to show!

2) Simply sell that vehicle and buy another every three days.

Jeff
>
> There are a lot of other options other than those two, so I thought it
> would be prudent to get ideas from other folks. When I call the government,
> I get told what I CAN'T do, instead of what I CAN do that will help me out.
> Maybe it is just the mindset of government workers or something.
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Energy usage
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6cc6fc4ef82655e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 2:33 pm
From: Steve

Excerpts from
http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fpages%2Flive%2Farticles%2Ftechnology%2Ftechnology.html%3Fin_article_id%3D466029%26in_page_id%3D1965

http://tinyurl.com/2owdkf

We spend £3billion a year powering appliances for entertainment and
communications - the equivalent of £125 per house.
By 2020 these gadgets will consume £4.87billion of electricity,
including millions wasted when appliances are left on standby.

Many modern appliances are more costly to run than their older
counterparts. Plasma TVs use three times more electricity than CRTs.
Digital radios use seven times as much power as conventional radios.

The typical family home has two or three TVs, two video recorders, one
or two DVD players, a digital TV set-top box, two music systems, three
mobile phones, at least one computer and printer, a cordless phone,
one games console, one or two digital cameras, a camcorder and a
digital radio.

By 2020, the gadgets used for entertainment and communication will
account for 45% of electricity used in homes, equivalent to the output
of 14 power stations. The country will spend about £1.6billion running
TVs by 2020, £1.4billion powering set-top boxes and £970 million on
electricity for computers. Unless TVs, DVD players and set top boxes
are radically redesigned in the next decade, we will spend £607million
on gadgets left on standby.

Whenever I dwell for any length of time on my own shortcomings,
they gradually begin to seem mild, harmless, rather engaging little things,
not at all like the staring defects in other people's characters.

...Margaret Halsey

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Whole House Automation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e8fd71eb5d77f2f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 9:38 pm
From: Jeff

I'd like to control ventilation in my house. Say if a room is warmer
than outside that a fan could turn on. Of course that would be dependant
on the season and some other factors like actual temperatures. Add
another room and something else you'd like to do (like the solar air
heater) and this could be a lot of hardware.

So, it seems to me that what I'd like to do is string up some of those
one wire sensors and have a small dedicated computer handle all the
logic. I could expand or modify that as needed.

Anyone have any suggestions on getting started with that? Frugal
suggestions?

Jeff

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 10:08 pm
From: Martin Leese

Jeff wrote:
> I'd like to control ventilation in my house. Say if a room is warmer
> than outside that a fan could turn on. Of course that would be dependant
> on the season and some other factors like actual temperatures. Add
> another room and something else you'd like to do (like the solar air
> heater) and this could be a lot of hardware.
>
> So, it seems to me that what I'd like to do is string up some of those
> one wire sensors and have a small dedicated computer handle all the
> logic. I could expand or modify that as needed.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on getting started with that? Frugal
> suggestions?

Take a look a www.phidgets.com.

They sell
sensors and actuators which can be easily
connected to a computer through a USB port.

--
Regards,
Martin Leese
E-mail: please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 6 2007 8:27 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Jeff <dont_bug_me@all.uk> wrote:

> I'd like to control ventilation in my house. Say if a room is warmer than outside that a fan could
> turn on.

Makes more sense to only do that when the room temp isnt ideal
and doing that will help to get it closer to what is ideal etc.

> Of course that would be dependant on the season and some other factors like actual temperatures.

In practice its better driven by the temp required etc.

> Add another room and something else you'd like to do
> (like the solar air heater) and this could be a lot of hardware.

> So, it seems to me that what I'd like to do is string up some of
> those one wire sensors and have a small dedicated computer handle all the logic. I could expand or
> modify that as needed.

> Anyone have any suggestions on getting started with that?

Just do it.

> Frugal suggestions?

Use an obsolete PC and onewire kits.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: july apartment specials apartments apt Houston Tx
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b9a1c4ed913db441?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 5 2007 3:19 pm
From: "lbutton@wt.net"

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must put apartments-houston-moving-relocation on guest card & lease
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must put apartments-houston-moving-relocation on guest card & lease