Frugal Living: Feb 1, 2010

Monday, February 1, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TOYOTA SEZ IT HAS [another] FIX FOR PEDAL ... DO YOU BELIEVE IT?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b3778869cfbea966?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 1:33 pm
From: "hls"

"slightly horny" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd41af9d-1273-4337-8f58-16d3694a1d4c@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
> Time to buy another BROOM?
>
> I kinda think the problem is more technologically related than just an
> ordinary "pedal."
>
> You?
>
> ----------------------
>
I saw a blurb that the Feds had approved the fix. If that means
anything....

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 7:04 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:e96dneGWwqoF1frWnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "slightly horny" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:dd41af9d-1273-4337-8f58-16d3694a1d4c@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
>> Time to buy another BROOM?
>>
>> I kinda think the problem is more technologically related than just an
>> ordinary "pedal."
>>
>> You?
>>
>> ----------------------
>>
> I saw a blurb that the Feds had approved the fix. If that means
> anything....

if by "feds" you mean the HTSA they have been investigating Toyota's
acceleration problems since 2004. Those models involved dated back to
model year 2000. Throttle control was lost in reverse. In that
investigation 1 million automobiles, Toyota and lexus models, were thought
susceptible.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ask Straight Dope; Cecil
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/960880feddaefd7d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 1:47 pm
From: Al

On Feb 1, 3:18 pm, A VFW <georgesp...@toast.net> wrote:
> Dear Cecil:
>
> I have a theory that, as a nation, we could save about 10 per cent of
> our gasoline consumption by the simple expedient of making sure our
> tires are fully inflated. My questions are: (1) What is the relationship
> between underinflation and gas mileage deterioration (e.g., 20 percent
> underinflation reduces mileage 10 percent, etc.)? (2) What is the
> trade-off between tire inflation and tire life? (3) Do the auto
> manufacturers in fact specify too low an inflation level for tires in
> order to soften the ride?
>
> for the answer ; visit Straight Dope.com

Or go straight to the article at
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/225/could-we-conserve-gasoline-by-putting-more-air-in-our-tires

I keep my tires on the high side so I can carry a bigger load. There
are various strategies that can be played with tire pressure. Slight
pulling from wheel alignment can be offset with a couple pounds
difference in side to side air pressure. We have severe pot hole
problems here. If the tire pressure is too low, a tire can be ripped
off the rim. If the pressure is too high on some vehicles, the shock
of a hole can damage the suspension more easily. So drive
moderately,know your vehicle, watch for holes, and keep the pressure
on the high side

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BlueMountain.com complaints?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/588a64d4d4622cf7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 1:54 pm
From: Al

On Feb 1, 1:24 pm, A VFW <georgesp...@toast.net> wrote:
> The Haggler sez/ avoid BlueMountain.com
> a scam?
>
> any feedback out in consumer land?

People who send ecards generally have more time on their hands and
less computer knowledge than a 7th grader. This makes them ripe for
harvest by fakers and sometimes the ecard site itself.. BlueMountain
has been the victim of fake cards in their name so perhaps this is the
reason for the warning. Again: don't send them and don't open them.
You'll be fine.

PS. Have an 8th grader clone your hard drive so you can fix everything
in minutes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Corporation To Run For Public Office!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/025ce6dd19c25e00?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 3:42 pm
From: "Mike Hunter"

You are wrong, do some homework before you chose to comment, search the
historical record, WBMA.

One can READ the Courts opinion on the net, that sites the "corporations are
People," in the majority ruling. It is also mentioned in the minority
opinion.

One thing is for sure, BO nor the New York Times Editors, apparently did NOT
read the opinion that came down from the court or he and they would not have
made that goofy assertion that FOREIGN corporations can now spend money in
US elections.

The law forbidding foreigners from participating in US elections is still in
effect. That fact is listed in the majority opinion, as well.

I just made a quick search found this, from the Law Review, in less than two
minutes:

"President Barack Obama and other critics say the court's decision to let
corporations spend their money to directly influence elections opened the
floodgates to foreign involvement. In last week's address to Congress and
the nation, Obama asserted that the court had allowed special interests,
"including foreign corporations, to spend without limit on our elections."

That was a step too far, foreign corporations may NOT spend any money in
U.S. elections under a provision of federal election law that was UNTOUCHED
by the high court.

"Mrs Irish Mike" <BeaForoni@msn.com> wrote in message
news:0c63d001-db62-4976-9b7b-7046bc6bc967@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 1, 9:02 am, "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
> You need to do a bit more research! The Supreme Court had ruled, if I
> recall correctly, way back in 1922 that "corporations are People," who can
> be sued in the courts.
>
Link or lie? I say urban legend.

== 2 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 3:48 pm
From: krw

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:42:26 -0500, "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com>
wrote:

>You are wrong, do some homework before you chose to comment, search the
>historical record, WBMA.
>
>One can READ the Courts opinion on the net, that sites the "corporations are
>People," in the majority ruling. It is also mentioned in the minority
>opinion.
>
>One thing is for sure, BO nor the New York Times Editors, apparently did NOT
>read the opinion that came down from the court or he and they would not have
>made that goofy assertion that FOREIGN corporations can now spend money in
>US elections.

It's even sillier than that. US corporations still cannot directly
support politicians. They can express an opinion, even if they aren't
a "news organization". Free speech for others than the media, fancy
that.

<snip>

== 3 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:13 pm
From: Paul

Bill wrote:
> Following the recent Supreme Court ruling in Citizens United v. Federal
> Election Commission to allow unlimited corporate funding of federal
> campaigns, Murray Hill Incorporated, a diversifying corporation in the
> Washington, D.C. area, has filed to run for U.S. Congress in the Republican
> primary in Maryland's 8th Congressional District....
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-klein/supreme-court-ruling-spur_b_437871.html

We are a government of lawyers, by lawyers, and for lawyers.

== 4 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:15 pm
From: "Bill"

"...the more complicated question is how, under the new ruling, to treat
U.S. subsidiaries of foreign companies or American corporations that are
controlled by foreign investors..."

Above from...

High Court Allows Foreign Campaign Finance...
http://globaleconomy.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2010/01/30/high-court-allows-foreign-campaign-finance/

== 5 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:17 pm
From: "Bill"

>
> We are a government of lawyers, by lawyers, and for lawyers.
>

NO, no, no!

We are a government of the Exxons, by the General Motors, and for the
Duponts! (Ralph Nader)

== 6 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:34 pm
From: "Mike Hunter"

Ralph WHO? ;)

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7sp99kF82kU1@mid.individual.net...
> >
>> We are a government of lawyers, by lawyers, and for lawyers.
>>
>
> NO, no, no!
>
> We are a government of the Exxons, by the General Motors, and for the
> Duponts! (Ralph Nader)
>
>

== 7 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:36 pm
From: Paul

Bill wrote:
>> We are a government of lawyers, by lawyers, and for lawyers.
>
> NO, no, no!
>
> We are a government of the Exxons, by the General Motors, and for the
> Duponts! (Ralph Nader)

LOL
Who runs the United States and everything in it?
Lawyers.

== 8 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:45 pm
From: "Mike Hunter"

Hog wash, the ruling clearly let current law stand on contribution from
FOREIGN Corporations.
I.E. A first year law student would easily discover that although Toyota
has holding companies, incorporated in various states in the US, the Toyota
CORPORATION is Japanese and thus excludes the holding companies from
supporting candidates for ANY elected office, period.

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7sp95qF7inU1@mid.individual.net...
> "...the more complicated question is how, under the new ruling, to treat
> U.S. subsidiaries of foreign companies or American corporations that are
> controlled by foreign investors..."
>
> Above from...
>
> High Court Allows Foreign Campaign Finance...
> http://globaleconomy.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2010/01/30/high-court-allows-foreign-campaign-finance/
>
>

== 9 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:46 pm
From: gordonb.zgado@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)

>The current Court simply REAFFIRMED that ruling, thus the law banning their
>"RIGHT to political speech," was not Constitutional.

I'd like to suggest that policical campaign contributions be taxable,
by all taxes applicable to the region or any part of it voting for
that office. This would include individual income tax, corporate
income tax, sales tax (for national elections, the sales tax of all
50 states), inheritance tax, property tax, all those odd taxes you
see on your phone bill, the SEC tax on stock trading, Social Security
taxes, Obama's health care tax if and when it becomes effective,
gasoline tax, etc.

== 10 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:01 pm
From: "hls"

"Gordon Burditt" <gordonb.zgado@burditt.org> wrote in message
news:AuOdnTnwpOl56PrWnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
> >The current Court simply REAFFIRMED that ruling, thus the law banning
> >their
>>"RIGHT to political speech," was not Constitutional.
>
> I'd like to suggest that policical campaign contributions be taxable,
> by all taxes applicable to the region or any part of it voting for
> that office. This would include individual income tax, corporate
> income tax, sales tax (for national elections, the sales tax of all
> 50 states), inheritance tax, property tax, all those odd taxes you
> see on your phone bill, the SEC tax on stock trading, Social Security
> taxes, Obama's health care tax if and when it becomes effective,
> gasoline tax, etc.

The latest ruling that opens the gate for company "donations" to
political campaigns is just a way for industry (or other wealthy
interest groups) to BUY congress.

Now, surely enough, congress has pimped itself for years, but
this brings pimpdon to a holy acceptable status.

== 11 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:07 pm
From: krw

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:01:13 -0600, "hls" <hls@nospam.nix> wrote:

>
>"Gordon Burditt" <gordonb.zgado@burditt.org> wrote in message
>news:AuOdnTnwpOl56PrWnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
>> >The current Court simply REAFFIRMED that ruling, thus the law banning
>> >their
>>>"RIGHT to political speech," was not Constitutional.
>>
>> I'd like to suggest that policical campaign contributions be taxable,
>> by all taxes applicable to the region or any part of it voting for
>> that office. This would include individual income tax, corporate
>> income tax, sales tax (for national elections, the sales tax of all
>> 50 states), inheritance tax, property tax, all those odd taxes you
>> see on your phone bill, the SEC tax on stock trading, Social Security
>> taxes, Obama's health care tax if and when it becomes effective,
>> gasoline tax, etc.
>
>The latest ruling that opens the gate for company "donations" to
>political campaigns is just a way for industry (or other wealthy
>interest groups) to BUY congress.

Bullshit. You really should learn something before spouting such
nonsense.

>Now, surely enough, congress has pimped itself for years, but
>this brings pimpdon to a holy acceptable status.

Ditto.

== 12 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:22 pm
From: "Mike Hunter"

Is that YOU Obama?

== 13 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:23 pm
From: Canuck57

On 01/02/2010 5:36 PM, Paul wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>>> We are a government of lawyers, by lawyers, and for lawyers.
>>
>> NO, no, no!
>>
>> We are a government of the Exxons, by the General Motors, and for the
>> Duponts! (Ralph Nader)
>
> LOL
> Who runs the United States and everything in it?
> Lawyers.

Sad, but tue.

People need to learn to forget if they are repulican, democrat or
independent and vote for the one that isn't a scum bag lawyer.

== 14 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:24 pm
From: "Mike Hunter"

It starts in the US Senate and now includes the shark lawyer from Chicago.
;)

"Paul" <P@main.com> wrote in message
news:hk7s3b$ofl$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Bill wrote:
>>> We are a government of lawyers, by lawyers, and for lawyers.
>>
>> NO, no, no!
>>
>> We are a government of the Exxons, by the General Motors, and for the
>> Duponts! (Ralph Nader)
>
> LOL
> Who runs the United States and everything in it?
> Lawyers.

== 15 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:53 pm
From: "hls"

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
>>The latest ruling that opens the gate for company "donations" to
>>political campaigns is just a way for industry (or other wealthy
>>interest groups) to BUY congress.
>
> Bullshit. You really should learn something before spouting such
> nonsense.
>
>>Now, surely enough, congress has pimped itself for years, but
>>this brings pimpdon to a holy acceptable status.
>
> Ditto.

I dont need to learn anything about this bill, and I cant believe you
would respond in such an ignorant way. Now businesses can
donate to campaigns at essentially unregulated levels..

If you have a point, make it, but dont just spout crap.

== 16 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:54 pm
From: Canuck57

On 01/02/2010 6:07 PM, krw wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:01:13 -0600, "hls"<hls@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Gordon Burditt"<gordonb.zgado@burditt.org> wrote in message
>> news:AuOdnTnwpOl56PrWnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
>>>> The current Court simply REAFFIRMED that ruling, thus the law banning
>>>> their
>>>> "RIGHT to political speech," was not Constitutional.
>>>
>>> I'd like to suggest that policical campaign contributions be taxable,
>>> by all taxes applicable to the region or any part of it voting for
>>> that office. This would include individual income tax, corporate
>>> income tax, sales tax (for national elections, the sales tax of all
>>> 50 states), inheritance tax, property tax, all those odd taxes you
>>> see on your phone bill, the SEC tax on stock trading, Social Security
>>> taxes, Obama's health care tax if and when it becomes effective,
>>> gasoline tax, etc.
>>
>> The latest ruling that opens the gate for company "donations" to
>> political campaigns is just a way for industry (or other wealthy
>> interest groups) to BUY congress.
>
> Bullshit. You really should learn something before spouting such
> nonsense.
>
>> Now, surely enough, congress has pimped itself for years, but
>> this brings pimpdon to a holy acceptable status.
>
> Ditto.

You have to look at it this way.

$5000 to each of 400 representatives is only $2 million. Since
government can taint the process to one companies favor or another, well
- cheap buy.

Say I was evil ultra-mega super rich and had $10 billion in one of the
failing banks. I would gladly pay $2 million to assure my $10 billion
was safe. Now say you have "connections" or some control to 25
corporations, and it is tax deductable. 26 * 5k * 400 is a lot of bribe
moneys. Right under the radar too.

You know the $10 billion is safe. I am sure Obama has his reasons he
cares not to discuss to us why some banks got help and others did not.

== 17 of 17 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 6:46 pm
From: Canuck57

You mean with the seat that had a scandle on it when Obama left when
fellow rats pounced?

On 01/02/2010 6:24 PM, Mike Hunter wrote:
> It starts in the US Senate and now includes the shark lawyer from Chicago.
> ;)
>
>
> "Paul"<P@main.com> wrote in message
> news:hk7s3b$ofl$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Bill wrote:
>>>> We are a government of lawyers, by lawyers, and for lawyers.
>>>
>>> NO, no, no!
>>>
>>> We are a government of the Exxons, by the General Motors, and for the
>>> Duponts! (Ralph Nader)
>>
>> LOL
>> Who runs the United States and everything in it?
>> Lawyers.
>
>

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b4229f6759920b09?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 5:58 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: I finally get it: If GW is not man-made, then God is punishing us with
it
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a0a0ec86da3faf9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 6:08 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey

On Feb 1, 8:40 pm, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2:10 pm, TheTibetanMonkey <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It's not very easy to follow the "logic" of these Christians who are
> > quick to deny Global Warming as if it was a plot by Satan himself to
> > confuse their simple minds… Anyway, I just realized that if man is not
> > to blame for GW, then they can keep happily driving their SUVs, and—
> > and here's the thing—God is to blame for GW, which is to say he's
> > punishing us for something.
>
> Ah, but GW doesn't exist! It's a hoax cooked up by those business-
> hating liberala.
>
> Medusa

I thought God was the real hoax.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Finally this works for the average guy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/992f9feb6bbf7c7d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 6:10 pm
From: wyattm

What can be better...do nothing and still get paid? You'll have 5
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years. Free to test drive. Visit http://wyattm.MyWorldPower.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The wasteful Christian way vs. the Tibetan Monkey Way
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b0132c6da4f51ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 1 2010 6:28 pm
From: Ron Wallenfang

On Jan 29, 11:03 am, TheTibetanMonkey <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> In one of my most celebrated quotes I say, "I can live with peanuts!"
> But the Christians say, "It's my way or the highway!" Well, they don't
> mean they are willing to share their lion's share of the road with my
> humble bike. They just mean, "Get lost of 'my' way."
>
> This young guy, a smart monkey no doubt, tells things like it is. The
> SUV is highly symbolic of the wasteful Christians, who think nothing
> of the consequences of their actions. Jesus is coming soon, right?
> "Stupid sheep are ruining the planet," says the wise Tibetan Monkey.
> And he added, "It ain't easy to survive in their jungle."
>
> So let's hear all about it...
>
> EXCESS ON WHEELS
>
> Common sense would dictate that the finite supply of oil and its
> impending exhaustion would deter people (Americans specifically) from
> using it inefficiently, but unfortunately that is not the case. There
> are a variety of ways in which Americans are wasting oil, but perhaps
> the most conspicuous is through our use of oversized vehicles.
>
> ...
>
> It is worth pondering what makes SUVs appealing to people when they
> are so wasteful. Some psychologists have argued that people drive SUVs
> because they create a sense of superiority and safety due to their
> size and height. SUVs are often even viewed by many as a status
> symbol. On the contrary, these gas-guzzlers are not cool. The only
> people who think SUVs are cool are those who are ignorant about the
> adverse consequences of wasting oil. SUVs are undesirable for a number
> of reasons other than those previously stated. They are on average
> louder than passenger cars, as if to intentionally make the driver
> come off as tough or menacing (or perhaps to run their engine, which
> must make loud sounds to move such a massive object). The size of SUVs
> also works wonders at obscuring other drivers' vision on the road.
> They are also extraordinarily dangerous.
>
> http://www.insidevandy.com/drupal/node/11456
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Tibetan monkeys can live on peanuts and banana, but other monkeys
> need to show they are lions"
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

In my life, I've been to Mass something on the order of 10,000 times,
celebrated by an accumulated total of many hundreds of Priests, and
I'm still waiting to hear my first sermon preaching waste or road-
hogging. I'm less familiar with what our Protestant brethren have had
to say, but limited exposure to their radio and TV evangelists over
the years makes me doubt that your shoe fits them, either.

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 21 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/896ece759761de90?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 2:42 pm
From: "Bob F"

Vic Smith wrote:

> Sure. But when I mentioned the coffee creamer, I said we liked it,
> and I didn't want any arguments about that.
> Nobody here is going to stop us from drinking coffee with creamer.
> Also mentioned you could always argue omelettes if you want to argue.
> Speed cut that out, and started arguing to not drink coffee.
> The omelette argument was over, so he found another one.
> That's the facts. Wanna argue about it?

Just block him like most others do. He never has anything useful to offer.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Using Bicarbonate Against the Swine Flu & Colds
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2327990b4a832a88?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 2:56 pm
From: Courtney

On Jan 30, 7:59 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

> You're the one in a little box who cant even manage to grasp what rigorous science is about.

"Rigorous science" like this?

Study: Money Talks in Drug Trials
June 5, 2007

http://www.intelihe alth.com/ IH/ihtIH/ EMIHC256/ 333/21291/
558296.html? d=dmtICNNews

SAN FRANCISCO (The New York Times News Service) -- Money talks -- and
very
loudly when a drug company is funding a clinical trial involving one
of its
products, according to a study released Monday.

University of California at San Francisco researchers looked at nearly
200
head-to-head studies of widely prescribed cholesterol- lowering
medications, or
statins, and found that results were 20 times more likely to favor the
drug
made by the company that sponsored the trial.

"We have to be really, really skeptical of these drug-company-
sponsored
studies," said Lisa Bero, the study's author and professor of clinical
pharmacy and
health policy studies at the university.

The research, reported in the online editions of PLoS Medicine, a San
Francisco medical journal, focused on studies of six statins --
including Pfizer
Inc.'s Lipitor, Merck & Co.'s Zocor and the generic drug Mevacor --
that had
already been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. The trials
typically
involved comparing the effectiveness of a drug to one or two other
statins.

"If I'm a clinician or funder of health care, I really want to know
within a
class of drug which one works better," Bero said.

"What our study shows is that depends on who funds the study."

UCSF researchers also found that a study's conclusions -- not the
actual
research results but the trial investigators' impressions -- are more
than 35
times more likely to favor the test drug when that trial is sponsored
by the
drug's maker.

Drug manufacturers, through the industry's trade group, said the
federal
government cracks down on biased research.

"The new study overlooks the crucial role of the Food and Drug
Administration
in reviewing and approving claims that are based on clinical trial
results,"
said Ken Johnson, senior vice president of Pharmaceutical Research
and
Manufacturers of America, in a statement.

"Our industry is dependent upon well-designed clinical trials that
will pass
muster with the FDA," Johnson said.

Mark Gibson is deputy director of the Center for Evidence-Based Policy
at
Oregon Health & Science University, which reviews existing clinical
evidence for
drug effectiveness and safety. He called the UCSF study an "important
piece of
work."

"If Americans really want to be able to have sound evidence on which
to base
their choice of treatments, they need to think about ways to fund
independent
research," he said.

About half of the 192 statin trials examined in the study between 1999
and
2005 were funded by drug companies. Bero said drug companies fund up
to 90
percent of drug-to-drug clinical trials for certain classes of
medication.

About a third of the statin trials did not disclose any funding
source.
Trials with no disclosed funding source were less likely to favor the
so-called
test drug than those with industry funding, researchers found.

The researchers found other factors that could affect trial results.
For
example, pharmaceutical companies could choose not to publish results
of studies
that fail to favor their drugs, or they could be designed in ways to
skew
results.

The study found the most important weakness of trials was lack of
true
clinical outcome measures. In the case of statins, some trials focused
on
less-direct results such as lipid levels but failed to connect the
results with key
outcomes such as heart attacks or mortality.

"None of us really care what our cholesterol level is. We care about
having a
heart attack," Gibson said. "For the drug to be worthwhile taking, it
has to
be directly related to prevent a heart attack."

The UCSF study was funded by a grant from the California Tobacco
Related
Disease Research Program.

The study, "Factors Association with Findings of Published Trials of
Drug-Drugs Comparison," can be found online at www.medicine.
plosjournals. org .

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 3:41 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Courtney wrote:
> On Jan 30, 7:59 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You're the one in a little box who cant even manage to grasp what
>> rigorous science is about.

> "Rigorous science" like this?

Nope the double blind trials your stupid nose was rubbed in.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 4:41 pm
From: "Lou"

"Courtney" <ckinear@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6eb8ffc0-26f4-4a6b-b13f-987710bc1732@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 6:24 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> You've lost me. How do you demonstrate it to yourself?

>The next time you are in the midst of a cold/flu or are heading that
>way start on bicarbonate as described above, keeping it well away from
>meals, coffee, acidic juices and sodas.

Oh, I have no doubt you'll get better. People all but always recover from a
cold, by far most people recover from the flu, and everyone has experienced
early symptoms and managed to avoid coming down with a full blown case of
the illness. The thing is, this happens whether or not the patient swallows
bicarbonate.

Remember when Linus Pauling said that large does of vitamin C could prevent
a cold, or shorten its duration, or mitagate the symptoms? How many people
followed his advice, how many people swore it worked? 30 trials such as I
outlined, spread among 10,000 patients have been carried out. No reduction
in the severity of symptoms have been observed, and no significant reduction
in the risk of catching a cold has been found, except in people in extreme
circumstances (like soldiers engaged in sub-arctic exercises, skiers, and
marathon runners). No significant benefits have been observed when starting
to take vitamin C after the onset of symptoms.

That doesn't mean that bicarbonate doesn't work. But your subjective
experience, however suggestive, isn't proof.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to Drink Bicarbonate of Soda for Health
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/960e9cb89005dde2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 3:21 pm
From: Courtney

By Chyrene Pendleton -
eHow Contributing Writer -
Bicarbonate of soda, better known as baking soda or sodium
bicarbonate, has numerous uses--it's a cleaning agent, antacid, fire
extinguisher and more. There also are interesting health benefits when
you drink baking soda, which is alkaline, in water. Viruses and
diseases such as colds, flu, cancer and even heart disease thrive in
an acidic body, but cannot survive when your body is alkaline. The
2009 Journal of the American Society of Nephrology revealed a study of
134 patients with advanced kidney disease. Taking baking soda daily
dramatically slowed down the progression of kidney disease, resulting
in no need for dialysis.

Instructions
Step 1
To increase your body's pH, take 1/4 tsp. of baking soda dissolved in
one-half glass of water on an empty stomach, once in the morning and
again before bedtime. Acidity and alkalinity is measured by pH, which
ranges from 0 to 14 with 7.0 being neutral; a pH above 7.0 is
alkaline, and below 7.0 is acidic. Baking soda has the highest pH of
14. Create a healthy body by keeping your body's pH between 7.1 and
7.5.
Step 2
Drink the baking soda and water solution at the very beginning of cold
or flu symptoms, such as a runny nose or sneezing, to help kill the
viruses. Keep your body alkaline by increasing fresh fruits and
vegetables in your diet.
Step 3
If you're an athlete, swallow sodium bicarbonate supplements with
water to buffer lactic acid buildup and improve your exercise
performance. Ingest 0.3 g of sodium bicarbonate per 2.2 lb. of body
weight, one to two hours before the event, drinking plenty of water.
Step 4
Drink a glass of water with a half lemon or lime squeezed into it
twice daily if you are unable to take baking soda and water. Lemons
and limes are acidic but become alkaline in your body, raising your
alkalinity almost as well as baking soda.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 3:43 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Courtney wrote:
> By Chyrene Pendleton -
> eHow Contributing Writer -

Get back to us when you can substantiate the claims with double blind trials.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 7:11 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <d38e1f59-3416-4090-8a2b-c859a7279efd@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Courtney wrote:

>By Chyrene Pendleton -
>eHow Contributing Writer -
>Bicarbonate of soda, better known as baking soda or sodium
>bicarbonate, has numerous uses--it's a cleaning agent, antacid, fire
>extinguisher and more. There also are interesting health benefits when
>you drink baking soda, which is alkaline, in water. Viruses and
>diseases such as colds, flu, cancer and even heart disease thrive in
>an acidic body, but cannot survive when your body is alkaline. The
>2009 Journal of the American Society of Nephrology revealed a study of
>134 patients with advanced kidney disease. Taking baking soda daily
>dramatically slowed down the progression of kidney disease, resulting
>in no need for dialysis.
>
>Instructions
>Step 1
>To increase your body's pH, take 1/4 tsp. of baking soda dissolved in
>one-half glass of water on an empty stomach, once in the morning and
>again before bedtime. Acidity and alkalinity is measured by pH, which
>ranges from 0 to 14 with 7.0 being neutral; a pH above 7.0 is
>alkaline, and below 7.0 is acidic. Baking soda has the highest pH of
>14. Create a healthy body by keeping your body's pH between 7.1 and
>7.5.

No way baking soda or a saturated solution of baking soda has a pH of
14. 14 is approached by a "1-molar" solution of potassium hydroxide, and
can cause chemical burns to skin, and easily damages eyes and mucous
membranes.

Meanwhile, the body regulates its pH. If your body is already normally
regulating its pH, all taking baking soda will do is increase your sodium
intake and cause your blood to retain more carbon dioxide to keep its pH
where it already was.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A Wise Monkey seeking the mysteries of the Universe: Why bike paths are
unconnected?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d0f1aadcfced989?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 4:12 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey

On Jan 31, 5:37 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> TheTibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> /../......
>
> plonk!

Hello, hello! Why you hang up?

You got any answers!?

Big money and effort that goes into unconnected bike paths.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 4:16 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey

On Jan 31, 4:44 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> TheTibetanMonkey wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 11:57 am, default <defa...@defaulter.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:32:01 -0800 (PST), TheTibetanMonkey
>
> >> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> Now for the question of sustainability, doesn't Holland with a very
> >>> high population of density and a combination of EDUCATED people, and
> >>> BICYCLES offer a hope for the world? Isn't America because it's big,
> >>> the land of SUVs and anything SUPERSIZED?
>
> >> Bicycles make sense in cities without large numbers of autos.
> >> You've no doubt tried to ride a bike in the sand or on a sandy dirt
> >> road? Not many bike races across the Sahara would be my guess.
> > Yes, I believe bicycles are the perfect solutions for distances say, within a 5 miles radius.
>
> No they are not, most obviously in the depths of winter etc.

Hey, options is nothing to be afraid of. Bike in good weather, public
transportation and even cars in bad weather.

>
> > That such is not the case is because the dangers that traffic present to us.
> > But I don't believe that reckless driving is a necessary evil,
>
> The main problem is not reckless driving, its just that minor misjudgements that
> at most dent a car can and do produce serious injury and death to bike riders.

Are you trying to say something here?

>
> > nor that we don't have any bike facilities.
> >> Bikes alone can't come close to solving the problem
> >> - they are only one mitigating factor.
> > Not alone, but perhaps the most simple step in frugality.
>
> Nope, staying home instead is that.

Wouldn't it be better to stay in bed? Then I go shopping in the
Internet. ;)

>
> > Most driving is done within 5 miles and most trips beyond that are avoidable.
>
> Trips within that are avoidable too.
>
> > I say, "BUY LOCALLY, BIKE LOCALLY."
>
> Just another meaningless mantra.

I'm all ears for your solutions.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 8:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

TheTibetanMonkey wrote:
> On Jan 31, 4:44 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> TheTibetanMonkey wrote:
>>> On Jan 31, 11:57 am, default <defa...@defaulter.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:32:01 -0800 (PST), TheTibetanMonkey
>>
>>>> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Now for the question of sustainability, doesn't Holland with a
>>>>> very high population of density and a combination of EDUCATED
>>>>> people, and BICYCLES offer a hope for the world? Isn't America
>>>>> because it's big, the land of SUVs and anything SUPERSIZED?
>>
>>>> Bicycles make sense in cities without large numbers of autos.
>>>> You've no doubt tried to ride a bike in the sand or on a sandy dirt
>>>> road? Not many bike races across the Sahara would be my guess.
>>> Yes, I believe bicycles are the perfect solutions for distances
>>> say, within a 5 miles radius.
>>
>> No they are not, most obviously in the depths of winter etc.
>
> Hey, options is nothing to be afraid of. Bike in good weather, public
> transportation and even cars in bad weather.
>
>>
>>> That such is not the case is because the dangers that traffic
>>> present to us.
>>> But I don't believe that reckless driving is a necessary evil,
>>
>> The main problem is not reckless driving, its just that minor
>> misjudgements that at most dent a car can and do produce serious
>> injury and death to bike riders.
>
> Are you trying to say something here?
>
>>
>>> nor that we don't have any bike facilities.
>>>> Bikes alone can't come close to solving the problem
>>>> - they are only one mitigating factor.
>>> Not alone, but perhaps the most simple step in frugality.
>>
>> Nope, staying home instead is that.
>
> Wouldn't it be better to stay in bed? Then I go shopping in the
> Internet. ;)
>
>>
>>> Most driving is done within 5 miles and most trips beyond that are
>>> avoidable.
>>
>> Trips within that are avoidable too.
>>
>>> I say, "BUY LOCALLY, BIKE LOCALLY."
>>
>> Just another meaningless mantra.
>
> I'm all ears for your solutions.

Continue to use cars, stupid.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 9:38 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey

On Jan 31, 11:53 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> TheTibetanMonkey wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 4:44 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> TheTibetanMonkey wrote:
> >>> On Jan 31, 11:57 am, default <defa...@defaulter.net> wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:32:01 -0800 (PST), TheTibetanMonkey
>
> >>>> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Now for the question of sustainability, doesn't Holland with a
> >>>>> very high population of density and a combination of EDUCATED
> >>>>> people, and BICYCLES offer a hope for the world? Isn't America
> >>>>> because it's big, the land of SUVs and anything SUPERSIZED?
>
> >>>> Bicycles make sense in cities without large numbers of autos.
> >>>> You've no doubt tried to ride a bike in the sand or on a sandy dirt
> >>>> road? Not many bike races across the Sahara would be my guess.
> >>> Yes, I believe bicycles are the perfect solutions for distances
> >>> say, within a 5 miles radius.
>
> >> No they are not, most obviously in the depths of winter etc.
>
> > Hey, options is nothing to be afraid of. Bike in good weather, public
> > transportation and even cars in bad weather.
>
> >>> That such is not the case is because the dangers that traffic
> >>> present to us.
> >>> But I don't believe that reckless driving is a necessary evil,
>
> >> The main problem is not reckless driving, its just that minor
> >> misjudgements that at most dent a car can and do produce serious
> >> injury and death to bike riders.
>
> > Are you trying to say something here?
>
> >>> nor that we don't have any bike facilities.
> >>>> Bikes alone can't come close to solving the problem
> >>>> - they are only one mitigating factor.
> >>> Not alone, but perhaps the most simple step in frugality.
>
> >> Nope, staying home instead is that.
>
> > Wouldn't it be better to stay in bed? Then I go shopping in the
> > Internet. ;)
>
> >>> Most driving is done within 5 miles and most trips beyond that are
> >>> avoidable.
>
> >> Trips within that are avoidable too.
>
> >>> I say, "BUY LOCALLY, BIKE LOCALLY."
>
> >> Just another meaningless mantra.
>
> > I'm all ears for your solutions.
>
> Continue to use cars, stupid.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Whatever it takes to survive in the jungle.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 9:50 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey

On Jan 31, 4:41 pm, "I M @ good guy" <I...@good.guy> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:12:17 -0500, T. Keating <tkuse...@ktcnslt.com>

> >I'll stick to the sidewalks if the roadway traffic appears to be
> >risky. Distance and height is a friend. (P.S. Riding on sidewalks
> >is legal in my area.)
>
> Who cares who has the right of way, who would
> pay, what is right or wrong, it is my ass, and I am
> not going to chance somebody not seeing me,
> not judging distance right, or any of the dozens
> of other things that could happen, no lightweight
> bike or auto for me on this crazy highway I have
> to drive on, I had a 1979 Alfa Romeo 4 door with
> all accessories, I was scared to drive it on this
> highway.
>
> I was driving a 1982 Cadillac 4100 Digital
> Fuel Injection that gave an instant readout of
> 29 MPG going up the highway, and a big truck
> waited at a stop sign for me, and aimed for
> the door post between the passenger doors,
> he must have known I am skeptical of AGW
> science.-

Do whatever it takes to survive because the sheep ain't stopping for
you. But if you are skeptical of AGW then you don't need to put your
life on the lane. Probably God is punishing us with GW. ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My wisdom about consumption
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/418c676eaf48d2d7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 4:29 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey

On Jan 30, 7:42 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> TheTibetanMonkey <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Apartment. I just wished to live in a house boat with my kayaks. I say
> >like Hemingway, "The sea is the ultimate freedom."
>
> >I'd give my bikes I guess, but one.
>
> I am a big bicycle rider as well....and like you
> invest my money in camping equip and bikes and
> adventure equip RATHER than 55" HDTV's.
>
> I have little in terms of traditional "stuff" but am
> happier than my friends who work 100 hr work weeks to
> keep their SUV and big boats
>
> I have considered an RV to live in...and could do it
> space wise

I was tempted into such a TV but went the way of a 17" laptop that
lets me see Netflix without the status symbol. I can pretty much enjoy
the "big screen" by placing it real close to my eyes and I can choose
my own reality.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 4:39 pm
From: me@privacy.net

TheTibetanMonkey <comandante.banana@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I was tempted into such a TV but went the way of a 17" laptop that
>lets me see Netflix without the status symbol. I can pretty much enjoy
>the "big screen" by placing it real close to my eyes and I can choose
>my own reality.

Agree

Have thought abt the BIG laptop as a TV but maybe an
all in one PC might be better yet as a "TV"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Distracted Drivers?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2420f0fc023b20d3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 5:01 pm
From: A VFW

In article
<39501abc-b2de-442e-8874-19db242cde86@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
tmclone <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote:

> On Jan 31, 4:15 pm, A VFW <georgesp...@toast.net> wrote:
> > now, they say research doesn't actually prove banning cell phones
> > prevents accidents.
> > My q. is; What would you include in the top 10 distractions drivers
> > experience?
> > They asked this to the class of a "safe-drivers" i took. AARP
> > Number one
> > ...............................
>
> Number 1 is having children in the car. My oldest friend is an EMT/
> hazardous clean-up guy and he says the majority of fatal accidents
> he's had to clean up, where driver distraction was the cause, happened
> when the driver turned around to scream at or otherwise focus on his/
> her larvae. The kids act up and mom drives into a tree. The majority
> of non-distracted driver fatalities are caused by drunks. At least
> that's been his experience. So...stay sober and leave the kids at home!

BUT.
Drinking was the leading cause of getting pregnant. oh, back to the lab.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saving money on things you already buy is GREAT!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c54b15c4285ffec1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 6:43 pm
From: wyattm

Saving money helps to supplement your income. Doesn't hurt to look at
http://wyattm.MyWorldMoms.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 8:56 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

wyattm wrote:

> Saving money helps to supplement your income.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist spammers ?

> Doesn't hurt to look at
> http://wyattm.MyWorldMoms.com

Another lie, it hurts me when I bust my gut laughing at the mindless silly shit on that site.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is your latest thrift store find?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2167416b5ff6f1fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 8:22 pm
From: Gordon

A linksys internet router and network print server.
I don't need the router, but the network print server
is going to be handy.

A Lands' End canvas tote sack.

Several other canvas tote sacks for grocery shopping.

An Audio Codes MP118 8 line VOIP gateway. $7.99.
it's a $600.00 piece of equipment. Seems to work.
Now I just have to find a VOIP provider that supports
it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 9:18 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 04:22:47 +0000 (UTC), Gordon
<gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

>A linksys internet router and network print server.
>I don't need the router, but the network print server
>is going to be handy.
>
>A Lands' End canvas tote sack.
>
>Several other canvas tote sacks for grocery shopping.
>
>An Audio Codes MP118 8 line VOIP gateway. $7.99.
>it's a $600.00 piece of equipment. Seems to work.
>Now I just have to find a VOIP provider that supports
>it.

Small picture frame that had a weird abstract-type painting in it.
Wife wanted the frame for one of the paint-by-numbers '"galloping
horses" paintings she had done.
$10.00 because it was a real nice frame, and perfect fit.
As an aside, the wife took it to the Antiques Roadshow for kicks while
I was out hiking on the Appalachian Trail. Her best friend dragged
her there, because the friend had an old trumpet she thought was once
owned by Tommy Dorsey. Sadly, it was run of the mill and needed more
valve work than was worth doing.
But it turned our painting was a real lost Picasso, estimated to bring
+$250,000 on even a slow day at Sothebys.
She was out shopping at the same store when I came home, so I didn't
know squat. Next day was her birthday, so I put her paint-by-numbers
horses in the frame, and burned the Picasso in the auxiliary furnace.
You can google the "Vic Goes Hiking" episode of Antiques Roadshow if
you want more details.
Good news is the frame was estimated to be worth $40-60.
Lets split the difference and say $50. Gained 40 bucks there.
Even better, on the same trip to the store we scored a like-new fancy
Mr. Coffee - all the bells and whistles - for 5 bucks.
It's a $55 model and works perfectly. A $50 gain.
This one,
http://www.mrcoffeestore.com/index.asp
$90 in one day. So it depends on your luck on a given day.
People look at their fortunes differently.
I'm just happy nobody's the wiser about me being in Argentina.

--Vic

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 9:35 pm
From: "Bill"

Following the recent Supreme Court ruling in Citizens United v. Federal
Election Commission to allow unlimited corporate funding of federal
campaigns, Murray Hill Incorporated, a diversifying corporation in the
Washington, D.C. area, has filed to run for U.S. Congress in the Republican
primary in Maryland's 8th Congressional District....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-klein/supreme-court-ruling-spur_b_437871.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 31 2010 9:42 pm
From: "Bill"

Their Youtube ad...
( "It's our democracy," Murray Hill Inc. says, "We bought it, we paid for
it, and we're going to keep it.")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHRKkXtxDRA