Frugal Living: Jun 8, 2008

Sunday, June 8, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: build your own auto trailer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/520c5580f399639a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:31 pm
From: phil scott

On Jun 5, 4:16 pm, JustMe <generalordertwentyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I need to haul maybe 800 lbs of junk (books mostly, also some
> computers and misc) from a storage unit about 200 miles away. I'd like
> to build a quick and dirty trailer for the job. Anyone know of plans I
> can download for nuthin? Thanks.

rent one from U haul, make the round trip in one day., it will be
cheaper...for the cheapest rental try craigs list.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 4:29 pm
From: SMS

phil scott wrote:
> On Jun 5, 4:16 pm, JustMe <generalordertwentyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I need to haul maybe 800 lbs of junk (books mostly, also some
>> computers and misc) from a storage unit about 200 miles away. I'd like
>> to build a quick and dirty trailer for the job. Anyone know of plans I
>> can download for nuthin? Thanks.
>
> rent one from U haul, make the round trip in one day., it will be
> cheaper...for the cheapest rental try craigs list.

This is true. You can rent their smallest trailer for about $20 a day.
Even doing it in two days would be fine.

I see ads on craigslist for the Harbor Freight trailers selling for more
than they cost new. Not sure if they're actually getting these prices
though. They're including extra wheels and the stake sides and the
plywood, but still $500 is very high. I think he could at least get back
the purchase price.

"http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/car/711818806.html"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does one point EER make a big diff in energy efficiency?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bc91eb4ccf208fb9?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:39 pm
From: phil scott

On Jun 4, 6:54 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> I'm looking to buy a small window air conditioner
> (5000-6000 BTU) for bedroom use.
>
> Does the drop from 107 eer to 9.7 eer mean a big diff
> in electrical usage?
>
> Does on point make much diff?

yes.. and it also means the thing will last longer because of the
larger condenser surface and cooler running compressor especially in
extreme climates... the farther south you go the more imporatant this
is..not so important say in SF calif or coastal oregon.

savings in your case might be in the 15 to 20pct range...not just on
amperage but in less run time... can add up in the souther US climates
or on the humid east coast.

but dont pay a nasty premium for it... payback might be 5 years or
whatever...too long.

Phil scott (mech contractor/ engr)

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:41 pm
From: phil scott

On Jun 4, 8:26 am, Anthony Matonak
<anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
> > I'm looking to buy a small window air conditioner
> > (5000-6000 BTU) for bedroom use.
>
> > Does the drop from 107 eer to 9.7 eer mean a big diff
> > in electrical usage?
>
> > Does on point make much diff?
>
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/roomwindow_ac_e.php
> : The EER is a simple ratio of the BTUs of the unit to the amount of
> : power it consumes in Watts. Thus an air conditioner with 10,000 BTU
> : capacity and an EER of 10 consumes 1000 watts of power
>
> http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_and_home/air-conditioner-revi...
> : With an efficiency rating of 9.7, the Kenmore window air conditioner
> : will cost 10% more to run each year than a similarly sized unit with
> : an EER of 10.7.
>
> How much difference it makes is determined by how much you use it.
> Comparing two 5000 BTU air conditioners, the 10.7 EER unit would
> consume roughly 468 Watts and the 9.7 EER unit 516 Watts or a
> difference of about 48 Watts.
>
> If you use this air conditioner some 12 hours a day for 4 months
> of the year that amounts to 1440 hours and 69 kWh difference. If
> a kWh costs you 14 cents then this is about $9.66 a year.
>
> Say you expect this air conditioner to last 10 years. This difference
> between the two units in electricity costs would be $96.60
>
> In short, it makes a difference but since the 9.7 EER units usually
> cost about $100 and the 10.7 EER units cost about $200, they both
> will cost the same over the long term.
>
> Anthony

thats right... what gets left out sometimes is the lower run times
seen with high efficiency systems since they cool better in very hot
weather due to the loss of efficiency as compressor head pressure
rises.. so the less efficient ones will run longer.. adding to the
operating costs above and beyond the eer ratio issues.

Phil Scott

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:43 pm
From: phil scott

On Jun 4, 10:21 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In short, it makes a difference but since the 9.7 EER units usually
> >cost about $100 and the 10.7 EER units cost about $200, they both
> >will cost the same over the long term.
>
> I live in north Missouri and would use it for say 3
> months a year

if money is short, get the cheap one.... if you were in south florida
or texas id say get the 10.7 eer unit.

Phil Scott

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:45 pm
From: phil scott

On Jun 4, 10:22 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> >If you use this air conditioner some 12 hours a day for 4 months
> >of the year that amounts to 1440 hours and 69 kWh difference. If
> >a kWh costs you 14 cents then this is about $9.66 a year.
>
> Would use probably say 6 hrs daily in July and
> August... mainly while sleeping in bedroom only

for sleeping only you are running it in a much cooler time frame.. and
only for a few months... get the cheapeer unit and a fan for not so
hot days.... I was in mexico last year for a few weeks and the motel
had a fan only, by the bed...worked fine.

Phil scott

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:48 pm
From: phil scott

On Jun 4, 1:18 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
> > I'm looking to buy a small window air conditioner
> > (5000-6000 BTU) for bedroom use.
>
> > Does the drop from 107 eer to 9.7 eer mean a big diff
> > in electrical usage?
>
> > Does on point make much diff?
>
> Anthony has covered the EER bit, but there is more in choosing an AC.
>
> There's also something called Energy Star. Energy Star appliances use
> less electricity.
>
> A 10.7 EER Energy Star AC can potentially use much less electrify
> than a non Energy Star 10.7 EER AC.
>
> Generally the savings will come when the AC is not at max cooling.
> Energy Star ACs tend to have energy savings modes. For example, in a
> "regular" AC the fan runs all the time, whether the compressor is
> running or not. So you are always using the sizable amount of energy the
> fan draws, whether you are cooling or not. In other words Energy Star
> appliance can use dramatically less power while idling.
>
> Another common feature is automatic fan speeds. When there is a lot of
> cooling to do, the fan automatically runs faster. When it is just
> maintaining a temp, it will run slower and quieter.
>
> They may also have sleep modes that let the room warm up a bit after a
> time delay, and then cycle back to the set temperature for when you are
> getting up again.
>
> All these features are switchable and you can enable or defeat them.
>
> I'd buy a better AC. I upgraded my window ACs last year and I'm much
> happier with the new units even if I wasn't saving energy. I love the
> remote and the quieter operation. And electricity pricing can only go up.
>
> I just sent someone off to buy a 600BTU AC. The 10.8 EER Energy Star
> was $138 (Lowes), the cheapest "regular" was $85 and was a 9.0 (Brand
> Smart).

not bad advice at all.... i didnt know about the variable speed fan
and that cheap price on one at lowes

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turn that cell phone charger off!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/08c4c18e7cebc41e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:39 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> The Real Bev wrote
>>>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote

>>>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the
>>>>> cell phone and *then* into the wall, rather than vice versa.

>>>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to explain just why THEIRS is different from
>>>> everybody else's.

>>>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference. (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse
>>>>> order could blow the fuse in it, while the right way around never did.)

>>> Whats the nuisance part?

>> Having to keep plugging and unplugging from the mains.

> And having to find the charger when you can't remember where you put it 2 weeks ago.

I'm not stupid enough to put it anywhere, its always in the same place.

>>> You need to make two connections (one to the phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it.

>> You can leave it plugged into the wall and just plug it into the phone when the phone needs to be charged.

> Pay attention.

You're the one that needs to do that.

> For some reason Samsung doesn't want you to do that

Duh.

> and I'm not willing to risk letting all the smoke out just because their design is less than optimal.

Or you can avoid chargers that are that badly designed.

> Having to buy another phone is even less optimal.

Getting a charger that can stay plugged in all the time and
can have the phone plugged into the charger as required
doesnt require a shred of rocket science whatever.

And you dont even have to bother if you buy a Nokia in the first place.

>>> And it really isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a power supply before energizing the power supply.

>> But completely routine to design it so you dont have to.

> Exactly. Too bad they didn't.

Then I wont be bothering with their phone.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 4:16 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>>> The Real Bev wrote
>>>>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote
>
>>>>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the
>>>>>> cell phone and *then* into the wall, rather than vice
>>>>>> versa.
>
>>>>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of
>>>>> them to explain just why THEIRS is different from everybody
>>>>> else's.
>
>>>>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a
>>>>>> difference. (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse
>>>>>> order could blow the fuse in it, while the right way
>>>>>> around never did.)
>
>>>> Whats the nuisance part?
>
>>> Having to keep plugging and unplugging from the mains.
>
>> And having to find the charger when you can't remember where you
>> put it 2 weeks ago.
>
> I'm not stupid enough to put it anywhere, its always in the same
> place.

There speaks a man who doesn't have to move something else in order to
set his handbag down or operate his mouse.

>>>> You need to make two connections (one to the phone and one to
>>>> the AC outlet) however you look at it.
>
>>> You can leave it plugged into the wall and just plug it into the
>>> phone when the phone needs to be charged.
>
>> Pay attention.
>
> You're the one that needs to do that.
>
>> For some reason Samsung doesn't want you to do that
>
> Duh.
>
>> and I'm not willing to risk letting all the smoke out just because
>> their design is less than optimal.
>
> Or you can avoid chargers that are that badly designed.
>
>> Having to buy another phone is even less optimal.
>
> Getting a charger that can stay plugged in all the time and can have
> the phone plugged into the charger as required doesnt require a shred
> of rocket science whatever.
>
> And you dont even have to bother if you buy a Nokia in the first
> place.

I chose from what was available at the time. It may be noted that you
don't find out about ALL a complex product's details until you've
actually had to deal with it for a while.

If I ever have to buy another phone, I'll insist on one with voice
recognition so I don't have to negotiate a menu tree to call a number I
have in phone memory but not in brain memory. I really didn't
appreciate it when I had it.

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens
to suck you out of your car.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 5:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>>>> The Real Bev wrote
>>>>>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote

>>>>>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the
>>>>>>> cell phone and *then* into the wall, rather than vice versa.

>>>>>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to explain just why THEIRS is different from
>>>>>> everybody else's.

>>>>>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference. (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in
>>>>>>> reverse order could blow the fuse in it, while the right way around never did.)

>>>>> Whats the nuisance part?

>>>> Having to keep plugging and unplugging from the mains.

>>> And having to find the charger when you can't remember where you put it 2 weeks ago.

>> I'm not stupid enough to put it anywhere, its always in the same place.

> There speaks a man who doesn't have to move something else in order to set his handbag down

Indeed, never need one to bash someone with.

> or operate his mouse.

Never stupid enough to operate the mouse where the phone charger is.

>>>>> You need to make two connections (one to the phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it.

>>>> You can leave it plugged into the wall and just plug it into the phone when the phone needs to be charged.

>>> Pay attention.

>> You're the one that needs to do that.

>>> For some reason Samsung doesn't want you to do that

>> Duh.

>>> and I'm not willing to risk letting all the smoke out just because their design is less than optimal.

>> Or you can avoid chargers that are that badly designed.

>>> Having to buy another phone is even less optimal.

>> Getting a charger that can stay plugged in all the time and can have the phone plugged into the charger as required
>> doesnt require a shred of rocket science whatever.

>> And you dont even have to bother if you buy a Nokia in the first place.

> I chose from what was available at the time.

You should choose where you do that choosing more carefully.

> It may be noted that you don't find out about ALL a complex product's details until you've actually had to deal with
> it for a while.

Anyone with a clue downloads the manual of something like that before buying it.

> If I ever have to buy another phone, I'll insist on one with voice
> recognition so I don't have to negotiate a menu tree to call a number I have in phone memory but not in brain memory.

Yeah, its quite handy.

> I really didn't appreciate it when I had it.

What, brain memory ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Walk Score(tm) for Your Address
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2bdcce5683876326?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:48 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Jun 7, 2:32 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> http://walkscore.com/
>
> They take your address and they use Google Maps to index the businesses,
> services, etc that are close enough to walk to.
>
> It's got a lot of errors, but it's still interesting.
>
> Some of the errors I found:
>
> One of the "schools" it listed near me was the "AAA Driving School."
>
> One of the libraries it listed is actually a State Farm insurance agency
> owned by someone I know.
>
> An AMC movie theater that opened about a year ago, about 1 mile away
> from me, isn't listed.
>
> Most of the distances over 2 miles are completely wrong. I.e. Google
> maps shows one of the movie theaters listed as being 9.2 miles away,
> while Walkscore shows it as 5.48 miles away.
>
> Several of the businesses it lists are not in business any more or have
> changed names.
>
> One of "libraries" it showed was a library inside an HP building on an
> HP campus.

Interesting, but too full of errors for practical use. Stuff across
the street is absent while stores closed a decade ago are shown as
active. A Google search on the zip code and address is more
comprehensive and one can do their own comparison without the little
house progress bar.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: frugal towels?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7e4690da26b3e36b?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 2:09 pm
From: val189

On Jun 2, 5:33 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dark colors require less frequent washing. Come on, just how filthy do
> bath towels ever get?

So, how many times DO you use a bath towel?

Reminds me of something once heard in a dressing room:"I only buy
black underwear cuz ya don't hafta wash it." EEEWWWWW....

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 3:40 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

val189 wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:33 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dark colors require less frequent washing. Come on, just how filthy do
>> bath towels ever get?
>
> So, how many times DO you use a bath towel?

With a body dryer there isn't any more need for towels than
there is with the hand driers found in most modern rest rooms.

http://www.savortex.com/body_dryer.html
http://www.aircon247.com/p/390261/triton-luxury-body-dryer.html

Anthony

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 4:30 pm
From: "Chloe"

"Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:484c6067$0$20192$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> val189 wrote:
>> On Jun 2, 5:33 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dark colors require less frequent washing. Come on, just how filthy do
>>> bath towels ever get?
>>
>> So, how many times DO you use a bath towel?
>
> With a body dryer there isn't any more need for towels than
> there is with the hand driers found in most modern rest rooms.
>
> http://www.savortex.com/body_dryer.html
> http://www.aircon247.com/p/390261/triton-luxury-body-dryer.html

"The high speed spinning filtered hot air brushes water off in an
invigorating fun way, and reaches areas missed by towels." That pretty much
says it all as far as I'm concerned <g>.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:07 pm
From: The Real Bev

Chloe wrote:

> "Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>> val189 wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dark colors require less frequent washing. Come on, just how
>>>> filthy do bath towels ever get?
>>>
>>> So, how many times DO you use a bath towel?

Lots.

>> With a body dryer there isn't any more need for towels than there
>> is with the hand driers found in most modern rest rooms.

I HATE those things. You should be able to dry your hands in 5 seconds
or less, and one of the last things I want is to be trapped in a hot
room with increasing amounts of hot air.

>> http://www.savortex.com/body_dryer.html

>> http://www.aircon247.com/p/390261/triton-luxury-body-dryer.html
>
> "The high speed spinning filtered hot air brushes water off in an
> invigorating fun way, and reaches areas missed by towels." That
> pretty much says it all as far as I'm concerned <g>.

92 seconds is way too long and you can buy a lot of towels for 300 lb.
"No heating element." So what does it use, friction?

--
Cheers,
Bev
************************************************************
"Let them eat shit."
-- Marcel Antoinette, Marie's little-known brother

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gasoline breaks through $4.00 a gallon
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb94fea1c432a5b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 2:32 pm
From: Paul M. Eldridge

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 13:30:12 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:44:14 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
>> <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
>> >> According to the AAA, the U.S. national average for regular unleaded
>> >> now exceeds $4.00 a gallon.
>> >
>> >Thank you for this timely news Paul.
>> >What can you tell us about summer? Will it be hot?
>>
>> Yes, it will be, especially under the collar. ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>
>Ever since I was a kid, I enjoyed Good Humor.

Mais Oui ! C'est moi... l'homme de bonne humeur !

Cheers,
Paul

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oil Boycott: Non oil based products?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c81559a594ac920c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 2:43 pm
From: clams_casino

Bill wrote:

>Seems to me both manufacturers of products and consumers are fed up with
>these high oil prices. I think the manufacturers would like to get away from
>oil based materials if possible. Maybe consumers can help them do this by
>buying non-oil based products when available...
>
>So the question: What products can I buy at the store which are not oil
>based nor have oil based packaging? What do I look for?
>
>
>

Firstly, only about 5% of oil is used for petrochemicals (plastics,
detergents, pesticides, food preservatives, candle wax, pharmaceuticals,
etc).

Secondly, a lot of plastics as well as fertilizers are made from coal
and natural gas (especially those derived from ethylene, polypropylene,
etc).

Is your goal to avoid products derived from oil or all (man made) carbon
based products?

Acetate & rayon are primarily made from trees. Polyester (fabrics &
plastics) is primarily made using oil-based materials (paraxylene).
Silk & cotton are other natural products, but the dyes & chemicals used
to convert them into colorful fabrics / garments likely have many
oil-based components.

Bottom line - it's unlikely there is much you can do to avoid oil-based
chemicals/ products. It's much more effective to minimize using
oil-based fuels.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:03 pm
From: Jeff

Bill wrote:
> Seems to me both manufacturers of products and consumers are fed up with
> these high oil prices. I think the manufacturers would like to get away from
> oil based materials if possible. Maybe consumers can help them do this by
> buying non-oil based products when available...

I'm a little surprised at the shift to non petroleum sources. Goodyear
is using more natural rubber and other manufacturers are subbing oils
such as rapeseed. Trouble for them is those products are rising in cost
also.

2.6% of all petroleum is used for the production of all plastics

80% of all petroleum is used for gasoline, jet and diesel fuel and
home heating fuels

17.2% of all petroleum is used for the production of asphalt, road
oils and lubricants

http://www.polystyrene.org/news/PSPC_flyer.pdf

Where are the whales now that we need their oil?

Jeff
>
> So the question: What products can I buy at the store which are not oil
> based nor have oil based packaging? What do I look for?
>
> I did find this on the internet...
> http://www.greenhome.com
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:11 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote
> Bill wrote

>> Seems to me both manufacturers of products and consumers are fed up with these high oil prices. I think the
>> manufacturers would like to get away from oil based materials if possible. Maybe consumers can help them do this by
>> buying non-oil based products when available...

> I'm a little surprised at the shift to non petroleum sources.
> Goodyear is using more natural rubber and other manufacturers are
> subbing oils such as rapeseed. Trouble for them is those products are
> rising in cost also.

> 2.6% of all petroleum is used for the production of all plastics

> 80% of all petroleum is used for gasoline, jet and diesel fuel and home heating fuels

> 17.2% of all petroleum is used for the production of asphalt, road oils and lubricants

> http://www.polystyrene.org/news/PSPC_flyer.pdf

> Where are the whales now that we need their oil?

The Japs have eaten them.

>> So the question: What products can I buy at the store which are not
>> oil based nor have oil based packaging? What do I look for?

>> I did find this on the internet...
>> http://www.greenhome.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gasoline "Boycott": The Next Generation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7b5aa5d3dc9c38b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 4:19 pm
From: The Real Bev

Shawn Hirn wrote:

> Starrfleat@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
>
> Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
> Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.

Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
backward, not forward.

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens
to suck you out of your car.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:35 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <7OZ2k.91$Mk4.62@newsfe05.lga>,
The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
> > Starrfleat@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.
> >
> > Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
> > Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.
>
> Having the freedom to travel when and where we want is NOT being
> spoiled, it's the way EVERYBODY should be and until recently that's the
> way we were. Stuffing us into slow public transportation is a step
> backward, not forward.

Wrong. Public transit is a viable means of transportation for millions
of people in some of the world's greatest cities and it works better
than private transportation. The problem with the United States is that
far too many urban and suburban areas are poorly served by public
transportation. You have a right to travel where you want, but you also
have a responsibility to pay the full cost of your travel expenses if
you want the luxury of private transportation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just Canceled Cable TV
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6cd6ada4aaa4d5bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 4:28 pm
From: George Grapman

The Real Bev wrote:
> barlow@amnia.com wrote:
>
>> timeOday wrote:
>>> BeaForoni@msn.com wrote:
>>>> Frugal movie watching can be found at Red Box. Instant gratification
>>>> and cheap at redbox.com . I down graded my cable and the movies I
>>>> watch are more current then the cable movie channels.
>>>
>>> Redbox is a good service. My only problem is it ends up costing us
>>> about $5 / movie because we never, ever manage to return them on time.
>>> That's why I'm thinking netflix might be better for us.
>>
>> That is why I prefer Netfix. I have one movie that has been sitting on
>> the tv for two weeks with no late fee when I return it.
>
> Your actual cost per movie depends on how quickly you watch and return
> the movies. Your scheme makes sense only if you have the
> one-movie-per-month plan, and not much even then.
>
> We got our Netflix cost down to less than a buck a movie, but we had to
> work at it. Not pleasant, which sort of defeats the purpose.
>
I have three at a time for $16. I rent about 10 a month so about
$1.50 a movie and no gas or parking meters.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:47 pm
From: Gordon

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in
news:m9mdnVljQdk_V9fVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@comcast.com:

> Well, after noticing my most recent bill was $110 just for Internet +
> analog "Standard Cable," I finally pulled the plug. I can afford it,
> but it's just not a good value. They made me work to cancel, I was on
> hold over 15 minutes. (Comcast has one submenu for upgrading service,
> and a separate one for downgrading, hmmmm.) I couldn't cancel
> Internet, but I did downgrade to the sub-megabit service, so my total
> savings should be close to $70 per month! That's unless I come
> crawling back for the 6mps Internet, which might happen, but still I'd
> be saving $50/mo.
>
> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by watching
> Disney right now. I think this will be good for all of us. I
> realized flipping channels wasn't adding much to my quality of life,
> and the networks, for all their supposed demise, have most of the
> programming I watch anyways. I got a digital receiver for my PVR and
> discovered free digital broadcast is much better quality than the
> analog cable I was paying for. So I also applied for the government
> coupons to get a digital->analog box for my TV. I might also get the
> $9/mo netflix plan.
> Heck, for the money I saved, I could go to a concert every month.
>
> Anyways, I struck my blow for frugality this month.

Good move,
O yanked the cable last February.
Since then we have been finding that the internet is full
of TV programming. The kids watch all the Squarebob they
want over the internet, and Joost has enough on demand
programing to add veriety.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 8:21 pm
From: Dennis

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:18:59 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Dennis wrote:
>> Lost episodes are available online at http://abc.go.com.

Quite good
>> video quality and you only have to put up with 3 or 4 30-second
>> comercials. You can even start/stop/pause/replay the video like a
>> PVR.
>
>Or you can record them onto the DVR's HD or DVD off the air and then
>watch them all at once skipping over the commercials. Much more
>enjoyable --

I do record Lost on my PVR (OTA in HDTV), but we watch them once a
week as the season progresses. Agreed, the skipping commercials part
does make a big difference in the enjoyment level. But I find that I
lose interest/overload after watching the second or third episode
back-to-back.

I didn't start watching until Season 2, so the ABC site has been nice
for me to catch up on the Season 1 details/backstories that I missed.

> you don't have to keep saying "Huh? Where did HE come from?"
>
>When continuity counts, watching one episode per week is unsatisfactory.

Not a problem for me, and my wife has me to fill her in for her "Huh?"
moments. ;-)

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: N.Cal. Gas at $4.46 a Gal. & What I did.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d183151627948ad4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 5:36 pm
From: 7derek <7dereklondon@gmail.com>

I have a service business and drive a lot. In the last few months some
of my monthly accounts have canceled as people began to cut back. Most
people are on a fixed income and can not ask for a raise every month
to stay up with our outrages inflation. Seems the first to go are the
home service people.

A few months ago I saw this coming as some of my trade related friends
where beginning to lose a few accounts here and there. A friend had
asked me if I was interested in looking at a private, by invitation
only investment club that had low money investments for short term
returns. Low investment sounded good to me and without any previous
investment experience I had little to lose. I did not lose, I am
gaining, more than enough to compensate for my canceled accounts.

The point I am making is during these extraordinary times we may have
to take extraordinary action if we want to maintain any semblance of
the lifestyle we all came to know and love. Who knows, some people may
need to get a part time job, some may start an internet business and
others will do what they can to survive.

Things in my opinion will never again be as we knew them. A year ago I
would have never believed I would be investing a few hundred dollars
here and there to make ends meet - I wonder how many other people out
there are doing novel things to raise money.

Frugal-living and surviving - Derek

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:24 am
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:
>
>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by
>> watching Disney right now.
>
> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...

If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:26 am
From: jnh@VictorTangoEleven.net.invalid (Jordan Hazen)

In article <MPG.22b4f7d9762d5ba2989a6e@chi.news.speakeasy.net>,
Mark Anderson <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:
[...]
>I've been debating whether or not to get the digital to analog
>converter. I've seen them around here being sold for $60 plus tax
>which is more like $67 all day in Crook County Illinois. The
>government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why I should fork over
>$27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all day. By giving
>out these coupons the government basically allowed the converter box
>companies to jack their prices up another $40. Another corporate
>welfare program but I digress.

There's more inside those boxes than you might think-- ATSC tuner,
MPEG2 decoder, frame buffer, downsampler, NTSC signal generator, RF
modulator, power supply, and a small embedded computer to manage it
all... basically everything that a digital TV requires, plus a few
extra bits for the analog output, but minus an actual display.

Their complexity is roughly equal to a low-end satellite receiver or
digital cable box.

Out of curiosity, how much do the cheapest set-top DVB-T to PAL
converters sell for in Europe? e.g. Freeview boxes in the UK? Anyone
know? After accounting for exchange rate differences, this might be a
good proxy for an unsubsidized ATSC converter's price.
--
Jordan.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:27 am
From: The Real Bev

val189 wrote:

> On Jun 7, 1:51 pm, timeOday <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
>
>> Heck, for the money I saved, I could go to a concert every month.
>
> Or wet your gas tank a bit.
>
>> Anyways, I struck my blow for frugality this month.
>
> Congrats for taking a stand and cutting back. What's next to go?

We did it long ago, and every time the cable company raises internet
rates I call up and rant and they give me the old rate for another 6
months.

How difficult that is depends on the individual you talk to. If the
person seems extraordinarily obstinate, hang up (while you're talking,
of course) and call back in 5 minutes. Sooner or later you'll get lucky.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:31 am
From: The Real Bev

barlow@amnia.com wrote:

> timeOday wrote:
>> BeaForoni@msn.com wrote:
>>> Frugal movie watching can be found at Red Box. Instant gratification
>>> and cheap at redbox.com . I down graded my cable and the movies I
>>> watch are more current then the cable movie channels.
>>
>> Redbox is a good service. My only problem is it ends up costing us
>> about $5 / movie because we never, ever manage to return them on time.
>> That's why I'm thinking netflix might be better for us.
>
> That is why I prefer Netfix. I have one movie that has been sitting on
> the tv for two weeks with no late fee when I return it.

Your actual cost per movie depends on how quickly you watch and return
the movies. Your scheme makes sense only if you have the
one-movie-per-month plan, and not much even then.

We got our Netflix cost down to less than a buck a movie, but we had to
work at it. Not pleasant, which sort of defeats the purpose.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:39 am
From: The Real Bev

Mark Anderson wrote:

> ...The government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why
> I should fork over $27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all
> day.

Walmart has them for $50. That's a just-in-case price.

> By giving out these coupons the government basically allowed the
> converter box companies to jack their prices up another $40.

Maybe not that much; I can't imagine buying anything like that for only
$10. Hard to even find cables for $10 (assuming you use only the
ordinary sources :-) ).

> Another
> corporate welfare program but I digress. I'm seriously debating just
> chucking the boob tube and the VCR, which hasn't been touched in a
> decade, onto freecycle and be done with it.

DVD recorders are way handier than VCRs.

> That said, Netflix is great and I watch all the DVDs on my computer
> monitor, a 22" LCD screen.

The problem with that is dark movies are pretty much unwatchable. I
also like to curl up on the couch, and that doesn't work very well.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:17 am
From: Dennis

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:54:36 -0500, Mark Anderson
<mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:

>I cancelled cable in 1992 and have never looked back. The only shows I
>watch with rabbit ears now are Lost and the Simpsons so my TV won't even
>be turned on again until perhaps some Sunday in late September. Lost
>won't start up again until next year.

Lost episodes are available online at http://abc.go.com.

Quite good
video quality and you only have to put up with 3 or 4 30-second
comercials. You can even start/stop/pause/replay the video like a
PVR.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:22 am
From: Logan Shaw

The Real Bev wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

>>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by
>>> watching Disney right now.
>>
>> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...
>
> If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

Going off on this tangent, a friend was telling me about a plan that
an elderly relative of his had. There was a facility in his area of
town that is both a retirement home and a nursing home: if you can
take care of yourself pretty well, you live in an apartment in one
wing (with a living room, a kitchen, etc.). If you ever reach the
point where you can't, you move to a room in the other wing. So a
group of friends got together and they hatched the plan of all moving
to the same place when they got ready to do that.

The advantage of this plan is that while it's a bummer to move out of
a house you've been in for decades, etc., etc., at least it's compensated
for by the fact that you're moving to a place where you already know
a bunch of people. And if you ever have to go to the nursing home side,
there are people in your social circle who might just check in and say
hello every now and then, because they live in the same building. So
you stand a chance of getting more than just visits from family members.

For all I know, this is not really that new an idea, but I thought it
was a neat way to make living in a retirement community a lot more fun
than it could be otherwise.

- Logan

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote

>>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by watching Disney right now.

>> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...

> If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

Tell that to my neighbour's dad.

Bit hard tho, the nursing home just killed him, quite literally.

Gave him his minimal meds, just the low dose asprin, and the meds
for the schitzo in the next room. He only lasted a day after that.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:42 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> The Real Bev wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote

>>>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by watching Disney right now.

>>> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...

>> If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

> Going off on this tangent, a friend was telling me about a plan that
> an elderly relative of his had. There was a facility in his area of
> town that is both a retirement home and a nursing home: if you can take care of yourself pretty well, you live in an
> apartment in one wing (with a living room, a kitchen, etc.). If you ever reach the point where you can't, you move to
> a room in the other wing.

My dad picked one of those himself.

Didnt work out the way it was meant to tho, once he got bad enough
to need the nursing home, there werent any beds available in it. He
ended up in one on the other side of the country, where my sister lives.

> So a group of friends got together and they hatched the plan of all moving to the same place when they got ready to do
> that.

> The advantage of this plan is that while it's a bummer to move out of a house you've been in for decades, etc., etc.,
> at least it's compensated for by the fact that you're moving to a place where you already know a bunch of people. And
> if you ever have to go to the nursing home side, there are people in your social circle who might just check in and
> say hello every now and then, because they live in the same building. So you stand a chance of getting more than just
> visits from family members.

It doesnt necessarily work out as planned tho.

> For all I know, this is not really that new an idea,

Yep, been around for decades now.

> but I thought it was a neat way to make living in a retirement community a lot more fun than it could be otherwise.

Dunno, a nursing home with visits from people you know doesnt appeal to me at all.

I'll be pulling the plug before it ends up like that.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:45 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Jordan Hazen <jnh@VictorTangoEleven.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article <MPG.22b4f7d9762d5ba2989a6e@chi.news.speakeasy.net>,
> Mark Anderson <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> I've been debating whether or not to get the digital to analog
>> converter. I've seen them around here being sold for $60 plus tax
>> which is more like $67 all day in Crook County Illinois. The
>> government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why I should fork over
>> $27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all day. By giving
>> out these coupons the government basically allowed the converter box
>> companies to jack their prices up another $40. Another corporate
>> welfare program but I digress.

> There's more inside those boxes than you might think-- ATSC tuner,
> MPEG2 decoder, frame buffer, downsampler, NTSC signal generator,
> RF modulator, power supply, and a small embedded computer to
> manage it all... basically everything that a digital TV requires, plus
> a few extra bits for the analog output, but minus an actual display.

> Their complexity is roughly equal to a low-end satellite receiver or digital cable box.

> Out of curiosity, how much do the cheapest set-top DVB-T to PAL
> converters sell for in Europe? e.g. Freeview boxes in the UK? Anyone know?

The Australian ones are typically $30 class money.

> After accounting for exchange rate differences, this might
> be a good proxy for an unsubsidized ATSC converter's price.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:18 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dennis wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:54:36 -0500, Mark Anderson
> <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:
>
>>I cancelled cable in 1992 and have never looked back. The only shows I
>>watch with rabbit ears now are Lost and the Simpsons so my TV won't even
>>be turned on again until perhaps some Sunday in late September. Lost
>>won't start up again until next year.
>
> Lost episodes are available online at http://abc.go.com.

Quite good
> video quality and you only have to put up with 3 or 4 30-second
> comercials. You can even start/stop/pause/replay the video like a
> PVR.

Or you can record them onto the DVR's HD or DVD off the air and then
watch them all at once skipping over the commercials. Much more
enjoyable -- you don't have to keep saying "Huh? Where did HE come from?"

When continuity counts, watching one episode per week is unsatisfactory.

--
Cheers, Bev
===========================================
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sometimes it just doesn't work
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ad81274179c279d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:27 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:53:45 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:

>hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>I wish. However....
> Harry, I *live* "in the country", too, and have done for many
>years; it ain't necessarily so;-)....

Yeah, not always. But ever since last year, when I let some thistle
head, I've been having more of them come up. A neighbor's field
hasn't been cut for a few years, and the sage grass there is a real
problem, since it catches fire easily, cattle don't care for it, and
it is trying to seed over here.

I've been keeping an eye out on pastured land around the area, and
some of it is gorgeous, while some is weedy and pretty ratty. I've
got plenty of acrage that is wild and I'm not trying to keep more than
about an acre or so under tight control. However, I am going to have
to address the problems in my fields before the boxwood and trash
trees get established.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:30 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:54:37 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>Good points, but you got by nicely for over 15 years with that old
>mower. Has something changed?

Maybe the move from a suburban and sandy area in south Florida to the
chert loaded country of north Alabama? :-)

>I was unfamiliar with the bush hog design. That does sound better
>long term.

I'm hoping so.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:34 am
From: Dennis

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 08:44:44 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>DW and I were talking over the situation last night and this morning.
>In pointing out the differences between a tractor and bush hog and a
>riding mower, I suddenly remembered that bush hogs have a shear bolt
>that breaks to protect the tractor motor from sudden stoppages of the
>blades. Riding mowers have a direct belt drive to the mower deck and
>no protection from those piston rod jarring stops. Hitting the cable
>end and breaking the mandrel likely started the damage on the latest
>engine, and the load of cutting heavy grass finished the job.

Yep, I've taken out the shear bolt on my brush hog several times.
It's a $0.75 bolt versus a $400 transmission on the brush hog. Keep a
couple on hand! (Be sure to get the proper soft bolt -- no grade 8
hardened steel. :-)

>I can't think of a way to include a shear or cotter or slip-clutch on
>the mower deck without some serious welding and re-engineering, and
>belly mowers are a pain to work on anyway. I'm thinking I need to
>re-evaluate options and find the right tool for the job. Using a
>screwdriver as a cold chisel and breaking it is cheap. Doing the same
>with a mower is not.

I looked and shopped and tried to work around buying a tractor and
brush hog for several years. Then I resigned myself to making the
investment. Even buying second hand is expensive. But after having
the tractor (i.e., the right tool) for a little while, I kicked myself
for not jumping in sooner. It is a major work saver. Mine is a John
Deere compact diesel 4WD model with a front bucket. I picked up the
brush hog mower new (on sale at a local independent dealer) and a used
tiller. I have never regretted any of these purchases.

I'm currently chopping up an old pickup to use as a trailer behind the
tractor. I've got lots of firewood to haul.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:12 am
From: Logan Shaw

George wrote:
> Whats the nuisance part? You need to make two connections (one to the
> phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it.

I measured my cell phone charger's current draw both with and without the
phone attached. The energy usage when the cell phone isn't plugged in is
negligible. Therefore, I leave the charger plugged in to the wall all the
time. The other end sits on top of my dresser where I keep my keys, wallet,
cell phone, coins, iPod, etc.

> And it really
> isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a power supply before
> energizing the power supply.

It's not a very user-friendly design. Flexibility is valuable. Rigid
restrictions when those restrictions aren't required from a technical
point of view (as evidenced by the fact that competing products don't
have the restriction) do not make for a very good design.

- Logan

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:50 am
From: "Rod Speed"

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
> The Real Bev wrote
>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote

>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the cell phone and *then* into the wall, rather than vice
>>> versa.

>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to explain just why THEIRS is different from everybody
>> else's.

>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference.
>>> (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse order could blow the fuse in it, while the right way around never
>>> did.)

> Whats the nuisance part?

Having to keep plugging and unplugging from the mains.

> You need to make two connections (one to the phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it.

You can leave it plugged into the wall and just plug it
into the phone when the phone needs to be charged.

> And it really isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a power supply before energizing the power supply.

But completely routine to design it so you dont have to.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:15 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote
>>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote
>
>>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the
>>>> cell phone and *then* into the wall, rather than vice versa.
>
>>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to
>>> explain just why THEIRS is different from everybody else's.
>
>>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a
>>>> difference. (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse
>>>> order could blow the fuse in it, while the right way around
>>>> never did.)
>
>> Whats the nuisance part?
>
> Having to keep plugging and unplugging from the mains.

And having to find the charger when you can't remember where you put it
2 weeks ago.

>> You need to make two connections (one to the phone and one to the
>> AC outlet) however you look at it.
>
> You can leave it plugged into the wall and just plug it into the
> phone when the phone needs to be charged.

Pay attention. For some reason Samsung doesn't want you to do that and
I'm not willing to risk letting all the smoke out just because their
design is less than optimal. Having to buy another phone is even less
optimal.

>> And it really isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a
>> power supply before energizing the power supply.
>
> But completely routine to design it so you dont have to.

Exactly. Too bad they didn't.

--
Cheers, Bev
===========================================
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FS: Gemstone jewelry, Bali silver jewelry & art - Ending today, VERY
LOW PRICES!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04ae18f4aa09c778?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:15 am
From: Jewelry by Yael

I have over 60 auctions that are ending today. Beautiful gemstone
jewelry, mermaid art & Bali silver jewelry (Harmony balls). A lot of
auctions starting at just $9.99! Visit:
http://stores.ebay.com/Orions-Online-Fleamarket_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQtZkm
There is definitely something for everyone! I also have about 150
other auctions that are in progress so please take some time to visit
my other items that I have for sale. For additional savings you can
take advantage of my combined shipping policy.
Thank you!

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:29 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Starrfleat@gmail.com wrote

> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.

The comments on them certainly have.

> Despite every official story told, prices came down soon
> enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better
> mileage during the gasoline shortages of the 1970's.

That aint what happened.

> One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would
> be to ride the bus to work every weekday.

And that would have no effect on world oil prices, essentially because
US consumption is only a small part of the world consumption.

> You could still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc.,
> but if a substantial number of the populace rode the bus, this
> would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil conglomerates.

Nope.

> The sooner, the better, but doing this for the month of
> July would provide a good hook for you, and others.

And would make no difference to the price of oil, you watch.

> And, if you do this, write letters to the ceo's
> of all oil companies and auto manufacturers.

And they will just file them in their round filing cabinets under their desks.

> Tell them that you can no longer afford to drive, due to outrageous gas prices.

And they will realise that that is a lie when they look at the traffic on the roads.

> Don't accept heinous solutions like drilling in Alaska or other American nature
> preserves, since there isn't enough oil there for a month of use, anyway.

Pig ignorant lie.

> Existing oil fields haven't been updated in 20 years.

Because they have been exploited.

> Tell them to come up with better solutions than ethanol,

Sorry, fresh out of magic wands to wave.

> which only raises food prices while doing nothing for the environment.

Pig ignorant lie.

> Just to play hardball, write some letters to congress,
> ceo's of Disney, Six Flags/Magic Mountain, Walmart, etc.

They wont even bother to read them.

> Tell them the above, and that, with outrageous gas
> prices, you won't be doing any summer vacationing.

Fat lot of good that will do when they dont even bother to read them.

> The economic hit is causing you to shop thrift shops and garage sales exclusively.

They wouldnt believe that lie, even if they were stupid enough to read your letter.

> And, unless gas prices get very close to a dollar a gallon
> (you're playing HARD ball, remember) your family will observe
> Christmas by exchanging homemade Christmas cards!

MUCH more effective to set fire to yourself outside their HQ. They wont be able to ignore that so easily.

> And, again, don't buy off on b.s. solutions like a gas tax holiday.
> Pass this idea to friends and relatives, and throughout the internet.

Go and fuck yourself.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:22 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<7a758f70-eaef-4736-af2b-78804ec490ed@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Starrfleat@gmail.com wrote:

> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.

Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.

> Despite every official
> story told, prices came down
> soon enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better mileage
> during the gasoline shortages
> of the 1970's.
> One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would be to ride the bus to
> work every weekday. You could
> still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc., but if a
> substantial number of the populace rode the
> bus, this would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil
> conglomerates. The sooner, the better, but
> doing this for the month of July would provide a good hook for you,
> and others.

The American automobile companies are finally getting a clue. They are
cutting back on manufacturing huge gas guzzling SUVs and ramping up
development and production of economical automobiles. Finally. Japan's
been doing it for at least a decade.

As you suggested, those who can't afford more expensive gas should
simply use public transportation, walk, bike, and combine trips in order
to reduce their gas consumption ... like people in most other countries
have been doing for decades.

Gas company CEOs have one responsibility; to maximize profit. They
couldn't care less about who can afford to buy gas as long as they show
reasonable profit growth for their shareholders. Complaining to the CEO
of Exxon about high gas prices is a complete waste of time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Kardaanivetoiset fillarit
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a3698e4496c8e0a5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:47 am
From: Rauno

Wikipedia
_____________

2/ Käytetyn ydinpolttoaineen huollon vaihtoehdot.

KTM Energiaosaston virallista julkaisumateriaalia.
10/1999 OY EDITA AB
Markku Anttila
Mikael Björnberg
Seppo Vuori
_____________

Ydinvoimalaitosten polttoainekierron suunnittelun lähtökohtana pidettiin
aluksi yleisesti periaatetta, jossa halkeamiskelpoisten aineiden
mahdollisimman tehokkaan hyväksikäytön takaamiseksi uraanin lisäksi myös
reaktorissa syntyvä PLUTONIUM kierrätetään polttoaineena. Käytetyn
polttoaineen jälleenkäsittely on olennainen osa tällaista suljettua
polttoainekiertoa.

*Keskeisin sanoma tässä on se, miksi jo Anne Holmlundille TVO esitti OL-3
hankestartianomuksessaan, että vuoteen 2020 mennessä jo n. 20% maailman
ydinvoimaloista kerrottiin perustuvan tulevaisuuden PLUTONIUMPOLTTOSYSTEEMIN
mukaanottoon! OL-3 laitos on tämän uudenlaisen plutoniumvoiman
esitaistelijaksi jo alkujaan tieten suunniteltu. Siitä huolimatta, ettei
plutoniumpolttoa maasamme nykylain edes sallita. Siitä huolimatta, että
puhtaana ydinaseaineena tarkoin kontroloitu tappavantuhoisana syytää 1000
kertaa säteilevämpää ydinjätettä 10 kertaa nykyreaktoritiloja
säteilevämpänä, Ja koko tuotantotapaa ei sallita kuin ainoastaan
NATO-maissa! Vaan annetaan tämän tarkoin julkisuudesta poissa pidetyn
valtion salausarkiston OY EDITA AB jatkaa sanomaansa.

Jo ydintekniikan alkuajoista tiedettiin tarve huolehtia ydinjätteistä, mutta
suunittelu jätettiin kesken. Tämä raportti on katsaus uusimpiin tutkimuksiin
aiheesta. Vaihtoehtoina runsasaktiivisten ydinjätteitten tai käytetyn
ydinpolttoaineen sijoittamiselle esitettiin seuraavia:

* Lähettäminen avaruuteen.
* Hautaaminen napajäähän.
* Tuhoaminen ja kiinteyttäminen kallioperän sisään maanalaisten
ydinräjähdysten avulla.
* Laimentaminen valtameriin.
* Upottaminen kapseloituna syvien valtamerialtaiden pohjasedimenttiin.
* Sijoittaminen kapseloituna erittäin syviin reikiin kallioperässä.
(Ruotsin peruttua Posivapelleilyt epäonnistuneina turvaa nyttemmin tähän!)
* Loppusijoitus kapseloituna kallioperään muutaman sadan metrin syvyyteen.

Ensimmäiset 4, luotettavuusongelmaisvaaraa. 3 seuraavaa samaa, mutta
vähemmän. Valtamerisedimentti -80 luvulla OECD ydinenergiajärjestöpiirissä
selvitys (NEA 1988) todettu teknisesti toteuttamiskelpoiseksi,
ympäristöhaitat erittäin alhaiset. Samoin ihmistunkeutumisriskit pienet.
Palautusmahdollisuus plutoniumpolttoon pienet. Poliittinen vastustustettu
jätteen upotuksena meriin, kansainvälisin sopimuksin kielletty. Perusmallin
ohella selvitetään sekä syviin pystyreikiin että pitkiin vaakasuoriin
reikiin tapahtuvaa loppusijoittamista (Juhlin ym. 1998, SKB 1992).
Mainittuja kolmea kallioupotuksia pidetään teknisesti luotettavuudeltaan
suunilleen samana. Syväporautusjätteen palautusta pidetään huomattavasti
vaikeampana.

*Kuten huomaamme TVO/Posiva kaavailee kaikissa toimissaan siihen, että
maasamme aletaan NATO-jäsenyyden turvin käsitelemään maailmanlaajuisesti
tuotua ydinjätettä. Tällaisien haahuilujen esteenä ei näytä olevan 1000
kertaistuvat ydinsaastajätteet vuosimiljooniksi maaperäämme, ei
ydinvoimaloittemme muuttuminen 10 kertaa ympäristölleen tuhoisammin
säteilysyytäväksi. Ei edes se, että näin maamme joutuu ammattimaisten
ydinasemateriaalivarkaiden polttopisteeseen. Edes se, että näin tuotettu
ydinvoima on vähintään taas 2,5 kertaa myös nykyistä kalliimpaa. Vaikka
kansa vastustaa hankkeeseen elimellisesti kuluvia massiivisia saotilaalisia
NATO-kontrolerreja ja massiivisia jäsenmaksuja. Ei tunnu puuhamiehiä
haittaavan edes se, etttä naapurimaista näin starttaavat ydinasehankkeemme
on julistettu jo nyt niin varoitellen vaarallisiksi. On hiuskarvan varassa
ettei sotaa jo sytytä!

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 12:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Bill <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Seems to me both manufacturers of products and consumers are fed up with these high oil prices. I think the
> manufacturers would like to get away from oil based materials if possible.

Pity it aint possible for anything like the same price.

> Maybe consumers can help them do this by buying non-oil based products when available...

Only if they are actually stupid enough to pay a lot more for it.

> So the question: What products can I buy at the store which are not oil based

Fuck all apart from basic food and even that has had lots of oil used in its production.

> nor have oil based packaging?

There's still quite a bit of packaging that uses paper/cardboard, but a lot of oil was
used in its production too, and even more to move the packaged product around.

> What do I look for?

Some old hemp or cotton rope, hang yourself with it.

> I did find this on the internet...
> http://www.greenhome.com

Completely useless.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get remaining liquid out of containers...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0d0fe996d9500468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:15 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <6at0i7F380611U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

> For liquid laundry soap, use pliers to pull the inner spout out, then the
> remaining liquid can be poured out. If you use a laundromat, leave pliers in
> your car for this.
>
> For liquid chocolate to make chocolate milk, pour a little milk in the
> container and shake well to get the remaining chocolate out.
>
> For barbecue sauce, pour in a little water and shake.
>
> For applesauce, leave lid on and bang on counter upside down.
>
> Then for other liquids, leave container upside down when near empty.

For all those items, when they get near empty, I simply place the
container up side down for a few hours before I need to use the last of
its contents. The contents always pours out easily. No tools or special
effort is needed.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:30 pm
From: Al Bundy

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:44:14 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
> <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> >> According to the AAA, the U.S. national average for regular unleaded
> >> now exceeds $4.00 a gallon.
> >
> >Thank you for this timely news Paul.
> >What can you tell us about summer? Will it be hot?
>
> Yes, it will be, especially under the collar. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Paul

Ever since I was a kid, I enjoyed Good Humor.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:31 pm
From: phil scott

rent one from U haul, make the round trip in one day., it will be
cheaper...for the cheapest rental try craigs list.

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25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tracfone
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56cc0a72df54a2f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 7 2008 11:12 pm
From: The Real Bev

SMS wrote:

> Dennis wrote:
>
>> But there are cheaper plans available (with different sets of
>> features) from other sellers .
>
> If you're a moderate user, on prepaid, then it pays to go with a carrier
> that has lower per minute rates. T-Mobile is as low as 8 cents per
> minute if you buy the $100 card on sale for $80, and PagePlus is as low
> as 5.3 cents per minute.

Target had the T-Mobile $80 card two years ago, but I haven't seen it
that cheap anywhere since, or even discounted $10 cards. I guess you
could buy one at a drugstore that your credit card gives a 3% rebate on,
but that's not really all that special.

I do a painless survey thing that gives me maybe $25/year in Target gift
cards (most useful "reward"), so after the initial purchase airtime is
free, or at least at a constantly decreasing cost. $10/year keeps it
alive and I've got 950 minutes in the bank.

--
Cheers, Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
The volume of a pizza of thickness 'a' and radius 'z'
is given by pi*z*z*a

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:55 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov> wrote in message
news:m5hm44ppmluu9e5vo6v2i7kpst7k2in66q@4ax.com...
> With all the talk about PagePlus I was actually thinking of changing
> from my current carrier (STI Mobile) but having seen this exchange and
> noted that an advanced degree in Cell Phone Economics is required to
> arrive at a dubiously-cheaper rate than STI I'll stay where I am,
> thank you.
>
> STI's rates (mine):
>
> Cost of phone = zero*, cost per day = 10c ($3 month), cost per min =
> 10c. Your balance always carries forward (the concept is not even
> considered), you just can't let it drop to zero for 14 days and you
> must make one call every 60 days. * = special offer after rebate; no
> longer available but see cheap phones for STI at
> http://www.cheapphonecards.com/.
>

What a total pain in the ass! I make less than one call a year, so having to
dig the phone out and use it every two months would be a drag. If you forget
to make the call does the phone stop working? How ridiculous.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 8:19 am
From: SMS

NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov wrote:
> With all the talk about PagePlus I was actually thinking of changing
> from my current carrier (STI Mobile) but having seen this exchange and
> noted that an advanced degree in Cell Phone Economics is required to
> arrive at a dubiously-cheaper rate than STI I'll stay where I am,
> thank you.

It's not all that complicated. You buy one $10 card every four months.

If you're using more than the minimum, it make sense to buy an $80 card
to get the volume discount on minutes, then buy the $10 card every
four months. A lot of prepaid carriers give you cheaper minutes on the
more expensive cards. There's really no "card" just a code that they
e-mail you.

Pageplus is good for those people that are using a lot more than the
minimum possible, because the per-minute rate is much cheaper than the
other prepaid carriers. If you're only using a few minutes a month then
it makes no difference.

Also, for very high volume users, the PagePlus unlimited is much cheaper
than unlimited from the regular carriers.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: African American Skin Care
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2cfd4bf0d3799917?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 12:03 am
From: sicsp5c9vx65gz8ner44@gmail.com

The pigmentation of skin does not really play any role in the type of
skin condition that may occur. However, in case of African American
skin care as well as with other dark complexions there are a few
problems involving skin care that are more prevalent.

Take for instance acne, which is a chronic disorder which has the
characteristics of excess production of oil from sebaceous glands that
result in hair follicles on the face, chest as well as back to become
plugged. For African American skin care, acne could have caused long
lasting discoloration of the skin and one needs to use topical agents
that will greatly reduce skin irritation.

African American Skin Care: CLICK HERE;
http://www.skincaretipsthatwork.com/african-american-skin-care.html

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: 60-luvulla myytiin jo autoilijoille kaikenlaista kivaa
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/13260d41722b60c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:20 am
From: Ari Sillanpää

Neutriinojen oskillaatio pelastikin päivänpaisteen aivan hiljattain. Jo
vuonna 1968 oli näet huomattu, että Auringosta tulee vain kolmannes niistä
neutriinoista, joita sen säteilyn tuottaminen teoriassa edellyttää. Oli siis
syytä epäillä, ettei auringonpaisteen alkuperää ymmärretty kunnolla. Toinen
vaihtoehto oli, että matkalla Maahan Auringon neutriinoille tapahtuu
jotakin. Kesällä 2001 kanadalaiset fyysikot ilmoittivat havainneensa, että
Auringon elektronin neutriinot muuttuvat muiksi, vaikeammin havaittaviksi
neutriinoiksi. Siksi elektronien neutriinoja siis rekisteröitiin odotettua
vähemmän. Yli 30-vuotinen mysteeri ratkesi. Kayserin mukaan Auringon
neutriinojen oskillaatiosta kertynyt näyttö on vahva, ja seminaarin neljä
muuta esitelmöijää ovat samaa mieltä. Löytö on niin merkittävä, että sille
on jo povattu fysiikan nobelia.

Neutriinojen massa muokkasi avaruutta

Nyt tiedetään, että neutriinoilla on pakko olla ainakin pieni massa, koska
ilman sitä oskillaatio ei olisi mahdollista. Oskillaatiohavaintojen mukaan
massiivisimman neutriinon massa lienee vähintään kymmenesmiljoonasosa
elektronin massasta. - Vaikka yksittäisten neutriinojen massa olisi
pienikin, kaikilla neutriinoilla on yhteensä yhtä paljon massaa kuin
universumin tähdillä ja planeetoilla, sanoo Washingtonin yliopistossa
työskentelevä John Wilkerson luennossaan.
"Uuden" massallisen hiukkasen rooleja on kiinnostavaa spekuloida. Ehkä niin
sanottu pimeä aine, jota tähtitieteilijät ovat etsineet jo vuosikymmeniä,
koostuukin neutriinoista? Käytännössä neutriinot riittäisivät kuitenkin
kattamaan siitä enintään viidenneksen. Joka tapauksessa maailmankaikkeuden
alussa syntyneiden neutriinojen joukkovoima vaikutti ratkaisevasti
universumin rakenteeseen. Kun alussa syntyneet neutriinot syöksyivät matkaan
lähes valon nopeudella, ne tasoittivat universumiin muodostuneita pieniä
epätasaisuuksia, joista myöhemmin kehittyi galakseja.

*Mainittu lähes valonnopeus masaiselle hiukkaselle on todella nykyfysiikan
hjarhautuneita rajojamme koetteleva näin toteennäytetty fakta. Siksi asiasta
ollaan oltu niin vaitonaisia fyysikkopiireissä. Lisäksi kun tässä puhutaan
vain neutriinosta, on ymmärrettävä, että neutriinono on todelisuudessa
tulkittu nimenomaan "antineutriinoksi" säteilyn tuotoksena. Eli meillä on
käsissämme käytännössä valonnopeuksinen, massallinen ja KASAANTUVA
antiainepäästö ydinvoimaloistamme biotooppiiimme. Jonka ratkaiseva
reaktiivisuusherkkyys liittyy sen "kriittiseen massaan." On tosiaan
tajuttava, että antiainemassa, joka ympäristöömme parhaillaan kiistatta
ydinvoimalapäästöinä monikymmekertaisin ntiheyksin Aurinkotaustaa normaalia
rajummin kasautuu on maailman vaarallisimmaksi tiedettyä äärireaktiivista
antiainemassaa, joka kykenee räjäyttämään KOKO perusatomimassan kerrallaan
energiainfernoksi. Eli kriittistä massaa odotellessa.. ..!

Tasoituksen määrä riippui neutriinojen massasta. Niinpä universumin suuren
mittakaavan kokkareisuus kertoo neutriinoista ja päinvastoin. Universumin
rakenteen perusteella onkin jo laskettu, että neutriinojen massan yläraja on
viisi kertaa niin suuri kuin oskillaatiohavainnoista saadun massan alaraja.
Palaset loksahtelevat kohdalleen.

Varsinainen haamuhiukkanen yhä haussa

- Neutriinon massasta vakuuttuminen on jo johtanut uusiin kysymyksiin,
huomauttaa Boris Kayser. - Kysytään esimerkiksi, onko erilaisia neutriinoja
vain kolme. Miksei neljää, 17:ää tai ääretöntä määrää?

*Kysymys on sikäli kiinnostava, koska neutriinon osuessa esim. Auringon
protonisäteilyyn syntyy 1 000 000eV gammapulssi joka parinmuodostuksessaan
voi muutua esim. elektroniksi, ja sen antiainneksi positroniksi, jollloin
neutriinosäteily tuottaa fyysistä elektronisäteilyä
energiatilamuutoksellaan. Eli oskiloivan kvanttienergiapaketin
vaihtelevuudelle ei kyetä esittämään todellista rajaamista asiallisesti
lainkaan.

Alkuräjähdysteorian ja universumin litiumin määrän perusteella voidaan
päätellä, että neutriinoja voi olla enintään neljä. Universumin alun
rakennetta kartoittaneista WMAP-satelliitin mittauksista näkyykin
alustavasti neljännen neutriinon haamu. Myös Los Alamosin
hiukkaskiihdyttimellä on saatu viitteitä neljännestä neutriinosta. Neljäs,
niin sanottu steriili neutriino olisi aivan erilainen kuin muut, sillä se ei
liittyisi elektronin kaltaiseen hiukkaseen. - Elektronin, myonin ja taun
neutriinoihin vaikuttaa sekä heikkovoima että vetovoima. Steriiliin
neutriinoon vaikuttaisi sen sijaan pelkästään vetovoima, Kayser selittää. -
Se on siis varsinainen haamuhiukkanen. Tietysti tutkijoita kiinnostaa myös
neutriinojen tarkka massa ja se, miksi neutriinot ovat niin paljon kevyempiä
kuin muut hiukkaset. - Jälkimmäisen kysymyksen vastaus saattaisi auttaa
ymmärtämään massan alkuperää laajemminkin.

Tuhosivatko neutriinot antiaineen?

Kayser kysyy myös, ovatko neutriinot syy siihen, että olemme olemassa.
Alkuräjähdyksessä muodostui näet yhtä paljon sekä ainetta että antiainetta,
ja nämä tuhoavat toisensa yhdistyessään. Jäljellä ei siis pitäisi olla
mitään. Me kuitenkin olemme täällä. - Neutriinojen ja aineen välinen
vuorovaikutus ehkä tuotti universumin alkutilaan epätasapainon aineen
eduksi, Kayser pohtii. Tämä saattoi johtua esimerkiksi siitä, että
antineutriino ja neutriino oskilloivat eri tavoin. Voimme siis olla
neutriinojen lapsia.
Leena Tähtinen on tähtitieteen dosentti, vapaa tiedetoimittaja ja
Tiede-lehden vakituinen avustaja.

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 4:22 am
From: Al Bundy

On Jun 7, 9:23 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Last year, the engine on my circa 1993 craftsman riding mower gave up
> the ghost. It was close to fall and I let it sit as a lawn ornament
> in the field.
>
> This spring, I bought a used motor, cleaned out the mouse nests,
> replaced the oil, cleaned and mounted the carb, and after much
> invoking of gods and curses, managed to get it installed. It worked
> great for a couple of mowings and then died.
>
> I was able to get a second replacement motor from the same fellow for
> a minimal amount, and with a bit fewer invocations, was able to get
> that cleaned spotless, re-carbed, oiled up and installed.
>
> It worked fine, sounding even smoother than the first replacement.
> But since it was working, I then hit a guy cable hidden by the road
> and broke one of the mandrels on the mower deck.
>
> Back to the old feller and picked up a replacement mower deck at a
> reasonable price. It came with a rear grass catcher, which is a
> s---load of black plastic parts and some metal square tubing. Got it
> on and it worked fine. Gently and slowly, so as to not overload the
> mower, I mowed the front part of one of my lawns.
>
> The engine sounded a bit off, so I drained and replaced the oil again.
> Got back started mowing again, and the motor conked out within ten
> minutes. I think I'm being told something.
>
> What is the going rate for scrap metal like this? I'm in the market
> for an inexpensive used compact tractor with a bushhog/haying
> attachment. The grass here appears to be a mite tough.
>
> On the plus side, I did get about 15 years out of the mower, and was
> only out about $200 on the recent repairs. Still...

You had a good streak followed by a bad streak. And it wouldn't have
been so bad if you didn't hit that wire.
Motors don't just conk out one after another without a reason. I'd
want to know what those reasons were. Your source of parts may be
cheap, but not dependable. Are these motors warranted for a season at
least?
Still, you don't have much expense involved. You know this machine in
and out (except for the motor). Why spend lots of money on a used one
with similar problems? Find a better motor with a minimal guarantee.
Maybe you should stock your own parts or have two mowers because of
your need.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:59 am
From: Derald

Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>You're being told to stop mowing your lawn....
Seconded.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:17 am
From: PaPaPeng

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 04:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>You had a good streak followed by a bad streak. And it wouldn't have
>been so bad if you didn't hit that wire.
>Motors don't just conk out one after another without a reason. I'd
>want to know what those reasons were. Your source of parts may be
>cheap, but not dependable. Are these motors warranted for a season at
>least?
>Still, you don't have much expense involved. You know this machine in
>and out (except for the motor). Why spend lots of money on a used one
>with similar problems? Find a better motor with a minimal guarantee.
>Maybe you should stock your own parts or have two mowers because of
>your need.

Hey Frugal Al, You telling Harry something he doesn't already know?

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:27 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 08:59:10 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:

>Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>
>>You're being told to stop mowing your lawn....
> Seconded.

I wish. However, in the country you mow not for appearance, but to
minimize ticks and field mice, and be able to see snakes before you
step on them. In addition, mowing before weeds get to the fruiting
stage minimizes the thistle invasion and sage grass that can be a fire
hazard.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:44 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 04:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

DW and I were talking over the situation last night and this morning.
In pointing out the differences between a tractor and bush hog and a
riding mower, I suddenly remembered that bush hogs have a shear bolt
that breaks to protect the tractor motor from sudden stoppages of the
blades. Riding mowers have a direct belt drive to the mower deck and
no protection from those piston rod jarring stops. Hitting the cable
end and breaking the mandrel likely started the damage on the latest
engine, and the load of cutting heavy grass finished the job.

I can't think of a way to include a shear or cotter or slip-clutch on
the mower deck without some serious welding and re-engineering, and
belly mowers are a pain to work on anyway. I'm thinking I need to
re-evaluate options and find the right tool for the job. Using a
screwdriver as a cold chisel and breaking it is cheap. Doing the same
with a mower is not.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:54 am
From: Al Bundy

On Jun 8, 10:44 am, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 04:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
>
> <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> >You had a good streak followed by a bad streak. And it wouldn't have
> >been so bad if you didn't hit that wire.
> >Motors don't just conk out one after another without a reason. I'd
> >want to know what those reasons were. Your source of parts may be
> >cheap, but not dependable. Are these motors warranted for a season at
> >least?
> >Still, you don't have much expense involved. You know this machine in
> >and out (except for the motor). Why spend lots of money on a used one
> >with similar problems? Find a better motor with a minimal guarantee.
> >Maybe you should stock your own parts or have two mowers because of
> >your need.
>
> DW and I were talking over the situation last night and this morning.
> In pointing out the differences between a tractor and bush hog and a
> riding mower, I suddenly remembered that bush hogs have a shear bolt
> that breaks to protect the tractor motor from sudden stoppages of the
> blades. Riding mowers have a direct belt drive to the mower deck and
> no protection from those piston rod jarring stops. Hitting the cable
> end and breaking the mandrel likely started the damage on the latest
> engine, and the load of cutting heavy grass finished the job.
>
> I can't think of a way to include a shear or cotter or slip-clutch on
> the mower deck without some serious welding and re-engineering, and
> belly mowers are a pain to work on anyway. I'm thinking I need to
> re-evaluate options and find the right tool for the job. Using a
> screwdriver as a cold chisel and breaking it is cheap. Doing the same
> with a mower is not.

Good points, but you got by nicely for over 15 years with that old
mower. Has something changed?
I was unfamiliar with the bush hog design. That does sound better
long term.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:53 am
From: Derald

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>I wish. However....
Harry, I *live* "in the country", too, and have done for many
years; it ain't necessarily so;-)....
--
Derald

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 5:52 am
From: Starrfleat@gmail.com

Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine. Despite every official
story told, prices came down
soon enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better mileage
during the gasoline shortages
of the 1970's.
One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would be to ride the bus to
work every weekday. You could
still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc., but if a
substantial number of the populace rode the
bus, this would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil
conglomerates. The sooner, the better, but
doing this for the month of July would provide a good hook for you,
and others.
And, if you do this, write letters to the ceo's of all oil
companies and auto manufacturers. Tell them
that you can no longer afford to drive, due to outrageous gas prices.
Don't accept heinous solutions like
drilling in Alaska or other American nature preserves, since there
isn't enough oil there for a month of
use, anyway. Existing oil fields haven't been updated in 20 years.
Tell them to come up with better solutions
than ethanol, which only raises food prices while doing nothing for
the environment.
Just to play hardball, write some letters to congress, ceo's of
Disney, Six Flags/Magic Mountain,
Walmart, etc. Tell them the above, and that, with outrageous gas
prices, you won't be doing any summer vacationing. The economic hit is
causing you to shop thrift shops and garage
sales exclusively. And, unless gas prices get very close to a dollar a
gallon
(you're playing HARD ball, remember) your family will observe
Christmas by exchanging homemade
Christmas cards!
And, again, don't buy off on b.s. solutions like a gas tax
holiday. Pass this idea to friends and relatives, and throughout the
internet.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:58 am
From: George Grapman

Starrfleat@gmail.com wrote:
> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine. Despite every official
> story told, prices came down
> soon enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better mileage
> during the gasoline shortages
> of the 1970's.
> One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would be to ride the bus to
> work every weekday. You could
> still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc., but if a
> substantial number of the populace rode the
> bus, this would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil
> conglomerates. The sooner, the better, but
> doing this for the month of July would provide a good hook for you,
> and others.
> And, if you do this, write letters to the ceo's of all oil
> companies and auto manufacturers. Tell them
> that you can no longer afford to drive, due to outrageous gas prices.
> Don't accept heinous solutions like
> drilling in Alaska or other American nature preserves, since there
> isn't enough oil there for a month of
> use, anyway. Existing oil fields haven't been updated in 20 years.
> Tell them to come up with better solutions
> than ethanol, which only raises food prices while doing nothing for
> the environment.
> Just to play hardball, write some letters to congress, ceo's of
> Disney, Six Flags/Magic Mountain,
> Walmart, etc. Tell them the above, and that, with outrageous gas
> prices, you won't be doing any summer vacationing. The economic hit is
> causing you to shop thrift shops and garage
> sales exclusively. And, unless gas prices get very close to a dollar a
> gallon
> (you're playing HARD ball, remember) your family will observe
> Christmas by exchanging homemade
> Christmas cards!
> And, again, don't buy off on b.s. solutions like a gas tax
> holiday. Pass this idea to friends and relatives, and throughout the
> internet.
Might work for some people who go hone to work to job but as an
example I often have appointments in different areas on the same day.
public transit would force me to cancel some of them.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:48 am
From: Al Bundy

On Jun 8, 8:52 am, Starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine. Despite every official
> story told, prices came down
> soon enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better mileage
> during the gasoline shortages
> of the 1970's.
> One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would be to ride the bus to
> work every weekday. You could
> still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc., but if a
> substantial number of the populace rode the
> bus, this would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil
> conglomerates. The sooner, the better, but
> doing this for the month of July would provide a good hook for you,
> and others.
> And, if you do this, write letters to the ceo's of all oil
> companies and auto manufacturers. Tell them
> that you can no longer afford to drive, due to outrageous gas prices.
> Don't accept heinous solutions like
> drilling in Alaska or other American nature preserves, since there
> isn't enough oil there for a month of
> use, anyway. Existing oil fields haven't been updated in 20 years.
> Tell them to come up with better solutions
> than ethanol, which only raises food prices while doing nothing for
> the environment.
> Just to play hardball, write some letters to congress, ceo's of
> Disney, Six Flags/Magic Mountain,
> Walmart, etc. Tell them the above, and that, with outrageous gas
> prices, you won't be doing any summer vacationing. The economic hit is
> causing you to shop thrift shops and garage
> sales exclusively. And, unless gas prices get very close to a dollar a
> gallon
> (you're playing HARD ball, remember) your family will observe
> Christmas by exchanging homemade
> Christmas cards!
> And, again, don't buy off on b.s. solutions like a gas tax
> holiday. Pass this idea to friends and relatives, and throughout the
> internet.

Start by holding your breath in July to cut CO2 emissions too.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 6:59 am
From: Paul M. Eldridge

According to the AAA, the U.S. national average for regular unleaded
now exceeds $4.00 a gallon. With crude oil trading at $139.00 a
barrel on Friday and with predictions of $150.00 a barrel by July 1st,
$4.25 by end of summer seems pretty much certain, $4.50 a real
possibility and $5.00+ not unthinkable if either weather or war become
a factor.

Home heating oil prices have more than doubled in the past year or so,
but natural gas could be the sleeper. The New York city gate spot
price hit $14.09 per MM BTU on Friday. A year ago, it averaged $8.38
and in the months immediately following Katrina it averaged a little
over $10.00. If you heat with natural gas, I would sock away a few
extra bucks for this coming winter.

Electricity could be another potential source of pain. Coal produces
about half the nation's electricity and spot prices have been on a
tear recently. For example, the NYMEX Central Appalachian coal
futures near-month price in January 2008 was running in the range of
$58.00 per ton -- yesterday, it was reported that Progress Energy will
be paying $126.00 per ton, plus another $30.00 for delivery.

Source:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1421332/progress_energy_rates_could_leap/

Cheers,
Paul

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:44 am
From: Al Bundy

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> According to the AAA, the U.S. national average for regular unleaded
> now exceeds $4.00 a gallon.

Thank you for this timely news Paul.
What can you tell us about summer? Will it be hot?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 8:39 am
From: Paul M. Eldridge

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:44:14 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
>> According to the AAA, the U.S. national average for regular unleaded
>> now exceeds $4.00 a gallon.
>
>Thank you for this timely news Paul.
>What can you tell us about summer? Will it be hot?

Yes, it will be, especially under the collar. ;-)

Cheers,
Paul

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:35 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

Yes, Samsung. Since I've never used any other, I don't find it a
problem. (And I don't leave it plugged in all the time, because I use
it only every five or six days and travel a fair amount and need to take
it with me.

>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference.
>> (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse order could blow the
>> fuse in it, while the right way around never did.)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
A great many people think they are thinking when they are
only rearranging their prejudices. -William James

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 8:01 am
From: George

The Real Bev wrote:
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>
>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the cell phone
>> and *then* into the wall, rather than vice versa.
>
> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to
> explain just why THEIRS is different from everybody else's.
>
>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference.
>> (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse order could blow the
>> fuse in it, while the right way around never did.)
>

Whats the nuisance part? You need to make two connections (one to the
phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it. And it really
isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a power supply before
energizing the power supply.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:18 am
From: The Real Bev

George wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>>
>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the cell phone
>>> and *then* into the wall, rather than vice versa.
>>
>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to
>> explain just why THEIRS is different from everybody else's.
>>
>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference.
>>> (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse order could blow the
>>> fuse in it, while the right way around never did.)
>
> Whats the nuisance part? You need to make two connections (one to the
> phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it. And it really
> isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a power supply before
> energizing the power supply.

I can't lose the charger if it's plugged in all the time. I guess I
could devote one switched power strip to chargers and just turn it on
when I need it. Hmmm....

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 7:52 am
From: "Bill"

I canceled my cable TV several years ago when they sent me one too many rate
increases. I don't miss it at all.

There are all sorts of cool books out there to read or to read aloud to
others (library). Then many VCR tapes can be purchased for just $1.

You can sit and talk* to others in your family, go for walks, ride bikes,
etc.

*Talking to other people is something which people did a long time ago
before TV. This may be mentioned in a history book if you are not familiar
with it.

"timeOday" wrote in message
> Well, after noticing my most recent bill was $110 just for Internet +
> analog "Standard Cable," I finally pulled the plug. I can afford it,
> but it's just not a good value. They made me work to cancel, I was on
> hold over 15 minutes. (Comcast has one submenu for upgrading service,
> and a separate one for downgrading, hmmmm.) I couldn't cancel Internet,
> but I did downgrade to the sub-megabit service, so my total savings
> should be close to $70 per month! That's unless I come crawling back
> for the 6mps Internet, which might happen, but still I'd be saving $50/mo.
>
> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by watching
> Disney right now. I think this will be good for all of us. I realized
> flipping channels wasn't adding much to my quality of life, and the
> networks, for all their supposed demise, have most of the programming I
> watch anyways. I got a digital receiver for my PVR and discovered free
> digital broadcast is much better quality than the analog cable I was
> paying for. So I also applied for the government coupons to get a
> digital->analog box for my TV. I might also get the $9/mo netflix plan.
> Heck, for the money I saved, I could go to a concert every month.
>
> Anyways, I struck my blow for frugality this month.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:24 am
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:
>
>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by
>> watching Disney right now.
>
> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...

If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 8:03 am
From: "Bill"

Seems to me both manufacturers of products and consumers are fed up with
these high oil prices. I think the manufacturers would like to get away from
oil based materials if possible. Maybe consumers can help them do this by
buying non-oil based products when available...

So the question: What products can I buy at the store which are not oil
based nor have oil based packaging? What do I look for?

I did find this on the internet...
http://www.greenhome.com

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Blog Archive

Sunday, June 8, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest