misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 16 topics - digest

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 15 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Can you believe this guy - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1976704e8ee40e35?hl=en
* Do not purchase a new Big 3 vehicle in 2009. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8da7acb0e572db51?hl=en
* Suggested Appliance Replacement Periods - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7bee609b70584f7b?hl=en
* WWW.NIKESNEAKERS-INCHINA.COM【Regard】wholesale BBC,CA,DG,coogi,AKA and the
other brand jeans, wholesale lacoste shoes - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4aa135df0f1272fb?hl=en
* Ebay alternative? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81ad82de073681df?hl=en
* Frugal ideas - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b0fb633415061f1d?hl=en
* Hawaii prices - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e0c0da39dcac6ce?hl=en
* Health Savings Account question - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ab0775bbc401eae4?hl=en
* .99 store complaint - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/344e32ee920ae3a2?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can you believe this guy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1976704e8ee40e35?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 5:16 pm
From: clams_casino

animal0921@googlemail.com wrote:

>I received an email the other day from a friend......
>
>
>
>

Considering spammers have no friends, how is that possible?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do not purchase a new Big 3 vehicle in 2009.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8da7acb0e572db51?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 5:30 pm
From: SMS

SoCalMike wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> resemblance to the models made 20 years ago, even under the skin.
>> There are some exceptions like VW (basic engine design dates back to
>> 1973) but not many.
>>
>> nate
>
> really? which engines? their inline 5?

Their 4 cylinder non-interference engine has been used in the Golf
(Rabbit), Dasher, Fox, and Jetta for a very long time, but I don't think
it's used in the U.S. models any more. It changed over time, going from
carbureted to fuel injected, and the displacement increased, but it's
pretty much the same. Some material changes when unleaded fuel was
introduced, albeit a bit late which caused some oil burning issues for a
couple of years.

I think it started at 74bhp 1.4L in 1973. In 1991 it was 101bhp and 1.8L.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 5:31 pm
From: Nate Nagel

SMS wrote:
> SoCalMike wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> resemblance to the models made 20 years ago, even under the skin.
>>> There are some exceptions like VW (basic engine design dates back to
>>> 1973) but not many.
>>>
>>> nate
>>
>> really? which engines? their inline 5?
>
> Their 4 cylinder non-interference engine has been used in the Golf
> (Rabbit), Dasher, Fox, and Jetta for a very long time, but I don't think
> it's used in the U.S. models any more. It changed over time, going from
> carbureted to fuel injected, and the displacement increased, but it's
> pretty much the same. Some material changes when unleaded fuel was
> introduced, albeit a bit late which caused some oil burning issues for a
> couple of years.
>
> I think it started at 74bhp 1.4L in 1973. In 1991 it was 101bhp and 1.8L.

AFAIK the current 5-valve models are the same block, or at least a close
relative, with a different head. Somewhere in between the 8V version
went to a crossflow head, and there was also a 16V variant in the 80s.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suggested Appliance Replacement Periods
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7bee609b70584f7b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 5:45 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 23, 11:56 am, "tmur...@juno.com" <tmur...@juno.com> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 12:23 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > FYI...
>
> > In reference to the suggested times
>
> > Air conditioners: 8 to 15 years
> > Dishwashers: 5 to 12 years
> > Disposals: 5 to 12 years
> > Dryers: 8 to 12 years
> > Freezers: 15 to 20 years
> > Furnaces: 8 to 12 years
> > Heat pumps: 8 to 12 years
> > Refrigerators: 15 to 20 years
> > Stoves: 15 to 20 years
> > Washers: 8 to 12 years
> > Water heaters: 8 to 12 years
>
> > I find my own experience with the most current appliances has been...
>
> > Air conditioners: 15 years
> > Dishwashers: 21 years
> > Disposals: 31 years
> > Dryers: 23 years
> > Freezers: 23 years
> > Furnaces: 15 years
> > Heat pumps: N/A
> > Refrigerators: 23 years
> > Stoves: 31 years
> > Washers: 23 years
> > Water heaters: 31 years
>
> > As you can see, many of my appliances have lasted beyond the suggested
> > replacement periods before needing replacement.
>
> > Two comments on this article.
>
> > First is when you can save substantial money with improved efficiency,
> > I think it is a good idea to replace the appliance. Refrigerators,
> > freezers, dryers, furnaces and air conditioners fall under this
> > heading. These are appliances that run for a long period of time and
> > use considerable amount of energy.
>
> > Second when you buy an appliance buy one as generic as possible. The
> > more fashion conscious it is, the sooner it will be out of style and
> > become an eyesore. There is a reason why white is the most popular
> > color of appliances.
>
> > Third is always consider these types of articles with a grain of salt.
> > With the housing market and the economy in free fall, appliance
> > manufacturers are desperate to get the consumer to buy their wares.
> > Many industry trade groups will commission a writer to produce
> > articles to motivate consumers under the guise of saving money to buy
> > their wares. (If you look you will find the car companies are doing
> > the same thing.) Before doing any purchase, do the cost analysis to
> > determine whether there will be a true saving.
>
> > Comments?
>
> > TMT
>
> >http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Consumer/Story?id=3789039&page=1
>
> > Creative Consumer: Time to Fix or Trash Your Appliances?
> > Elisabeth Leamy's Tips About What to Do With Your Aging Appliances
> > By ELISABETH LEAMY
> > ABC NEWS Consumer Correspondent
> > Oct. 29 2007 --
>
> > I got some new appliances for my kitchen this week. Woo hoo! When we
> > bought our house a couple of years ago, one of the less-than-appealing
> > aspects was the collection of 1980s-era kitchen appliances. They were
> > ugly and didn't work well either. But the darn things just would not
> > fail altogether. So I kept wondering, should I take them to the repair
> > shop or the junkyard?
>
> > I finally got my act together to research a reputable appliance repair
> > firm, and when I told the company my address, I got lucky. Turns out
> > the previous owner had also used this company and I was able to find
> > out that they had worked on the oven multiple times. That was all the
> > excuse I needed. And then I needed a dishwasher and microwave to
> > match, right?
>
> > Whether to fix it or trash it is a tough call. The first step is to
> > check your warranty. Many household appliances have long-term
> > manufacturer's warranties. Next, get an estimate. If the repair cost
> > is 50 percent or more of the price of replacement, you should scrap
> > it.
>
> > If the repair cost is 50 percent or less, ask yourself some questions.
> > What kind of shape is the appliance in? If it's already been fixed
> > several times like my oven, it may not be worth another overhaul. Do
> > newer models offer vastly improved features? For example, new
> > refrigerators use less energy than old ones. You may be able to recoup
> > part of the cost of replacement that way.
>
> > Consider whether the appliance is unique. If it fits into an odd space
> > or it's an unusual color, it may be too expensive and difficult to
> > replace. Finally, figure out how old the appliance is. Over the years,
> > experts have figured out the average life of most household
> > appliances.
>
> > Air conditioners: 8 to 15 years
>
> > Dishwashers: 5 to 12 years
>
> > Disposals: 5 to 12 years
>
> > Dryers: 8 to 12 years
>
> > Freezers: 15 to 20 years
>
> > Furnaces: 8 to 12 years
>
> > Heat pumps: 8 to 12 years
>
> > Refrigerators: 15 to 20 years
>
> > Stoves: 15 to 20 years
>
> > Washers: 8 to 12 years
>
> > Water heaters: 8 to 12 years
>
> > Don't just open up the phone book and get an estimate from the company
> > with the biggest ad. Ask friends and family for referrals and check
> > out the companies with the better business bureau and your county or
> > state consumer protection office. Keep in mind, in some states,
> > appliance repair companies have to be licensed. If you don't have a
> > solid referral, plan on getting more than one repair estimate on
> > expensive appliances.
>
> > When you call for an appointment, be ready with the make and model
> > number of the appliance. That way you can make sure the company
> > services that brand and that the technician is prepared to bring the
> > proper tools. Ask whether the company charges for estimates. Most
> > companies waive that fee if you go ahead with the repair work. Find
> > out the charge for the first half hour of work and see if there's a
> > minimum repair charge.
>
> > When the technician comes to your home, ask for a written estimate.
> > That estimate should list all parts needed, plus labor charges. Some
> > states require the technician to get your permission if the price is
> > going to rise more than 10 percent above the written estimate. Find
> > out if the company offers a warranty and get it in writing. Typically,
> > repair companies guarantee their labor for 30 days, parts for 90
> > days.
>
> > Once you choose a repair company, alert the technician up front that
> > you are going to want your old parts back. This is a good test to make
> > sure the technician really does replace those parts. Keep in mind, the
> > technician cannot give you your old parts if they contain hazardous
> > materials or if the manufacturer requires their return in exchange for
> > warranty service.
>
> > Don't pay big bucks up front. Established companies should not ask you
> > for any money at the beginning of the job. Certainly don't pay more
> > than ten or twenty percent. When the job is complete, pay by check or
> > credit card. It's hard to fight the charges if you pay cash. If the
> > company has misdiagnosed your machine, it should send a technician
> > back at no charge. However, if the new repair requires different
> > parts, you may get some money back or owe some more.
>
> > If you take small appliances or electronics to a repair store, get a
> > claim check before you leave your belongings behind. And pick your
> > items up in a timely manner to avoid storage fees.
>
> > Beware of situations where appliance repair companies approach you. An
> > air conditioning company called William B. and offered to tune up his
> > AC unit for $34.95. Once the technicians got in the door, they claimed
> > William's air conditioner needed much more than a tune-up. They
> > persuaded him to pay $259 for all sorts of services he probably didn't
> > need at all. Unfortunately, upselling like this is common.
>
> > Be the hunter, not the hunted. Don't do business with companies that
> > come to you out of the blue. Beware of companies that call and claim
> > to be subsidiaries or affiliates of the company you usually use. And
> > don't panic if one of these companies tells you your appliance is a
> > hazard. That's an age-old ploy. Stop using the appliance and get a
> > second opinion.
>
> > To Be a Savvy Consumer
> > Figure out if the appliance is under warranty. If so, contact an
> > authorized repair facility and the fix should be free.
>
> > Check out appliance repair companies with the BBB and your state and
> > county consumer protection agencies. Also check to see if they are
> > properly licensed, if applicable.
>
> > Get an itemized written estimate and a written warranty.
>
> > Apply the 50 percent test to decide whether to repair or replace the
> > appliance.
>
> > Don't do business with appliance repair companies that contact you
> > until you check them out.
>
> > Where to Complain
> > If you have difficulty with an appliance repair company, contact your
> > county and state consumer protection offices plus the Better Business
> > Bureau. If the company must be licensed, complain to the state agency
> > that licensed that industry.
>
> > Copyright (c) 2009 ABC News Internet Ventures
>
> What is the source for the appliance life spans?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Good question...I do not know.

That is why I included the link to the article for anyone who wanted
to follow up on the sources.

TMT

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 7:08 pm
From: meow2222@care2.com

Rod Speed wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools wrote:

> > FYI...
>
> > In reference to the suggested times
>
> > Air conditioners: 8 to 15 years
> > Dishwashers: 5 to 12 years
> > Disposals: 5 to 12 years
> > Dryers: 8 to 12 years
> > Freezers: 15 to 20 years
> > Furnaces: 8 to 12 years
> > Heat pumps: 8 to 12 years
> > Refrigerators: 15 to 20 years
> > Stoves: 15 to 20 years
> > Washers: 8 to 12 years
> > Water heaters: 8 to 12 years
>
> Those numbers are completely meaningless.
>
> What matters is whether the device has failed or not and what the
> cost of the repair is relative to the cost of replacement and that last
> isnt constant either, obviously if you can repair it yourself and just
> pay for the parts required, its going to be viable to repair it for
> longer than if you have to pay someone else to repair it etc.
>
> > I find my own experience with the most current appliances has been...
>
> > Air conditioners: 15 years
> > Dishwashers: 21 years
> > Disposals: 31 years
> > Dryers: 23 years
> > Freezers: 23 years
> > Furnaces: 15 years
> > Heat pumps: N/A
> > Refrigerators: 23 years
> > Stoves: 31 years
> > Washers: 23 years
> > Water heaters: 31 years
>
> And with some of those the replacement isnt just because its better value
> to replace it, it can be just because the new device is more capable than
> the old one was and you just say get sick of manually defrosting the
> original manual defrost fridge etc and go for a frost free etc.

Yes. And sometimes its the other way round, an older appliance can be
more reliable, easier to use, better looking, etc. Some people still
have a few ancient appliances that it would be crazy to replace with
new, 1950s, 1920s etc.

> > As you can see, many of my appliances have lasted beyond
> > the suggested replacement periods before needing replacement.
>
> Just goes to show how stupid that 'suggested replacement period' idea is.
>
> > Two comments on this article.
>
> > First is when you can save substantial money with improved efficiency,
> > I think it is a good idea to replace the appliance. Refrigerators,
> > freezers, dryers, furnaces and air conditioners fall under this heading.

Thats only true when the savings outweight the replacement cost, which
is frequently not the case. When calculating savings one also has to
take into account expected lifetimes of the newer replacement, which
in some cases can be all too short. Its a mistake to assume
replacement is the way to go with many furnaces.

> And since advances with particular technology arent uniform,
> the idea of a specified replacement cycle is even sillier.
>
> > These are appliances that run for a long period
> > of time and use considerable amount of energy.
>
> > Second when you buy an appliance buy one as generic
> > as possible. The more fashion conscious it is, the sooner
> > it will be out of style and become an eyesore.

you got to live with it for 20+ years. So no lime green fridges!

> I'm never ever stupid enough to replace stuff for that reason.
>
> > There is a reason why white is the most popular color of appliances.
>
> Doesnt work with laptops and other electronic appliances.
>
> And its unlikely that say the bare metal style will go out of fashion any time soon anyway.
>
> > Third is always consider these types of articles with a grain of salt.
>
> I dont even bother to read them in the first place.
>
> > With the housing market and the economy in free fall,
>
> Its nothing like in free fall.
>
> > appliance manufacturers are desperate to get the consumer to buy their wares.
> > Many industry trade groups will commission a writer to produce articles to
> > motivate consumers under the guise of saving money to buy their wares.
>
> Mindless conspiracy theory. This type of article has been around forever.
>
> > (If you look you will find the car companies are doing the same thing.)
>
> Hardly anyone bothers to read that sort of article about cars.
>
> > Before doing any purchase, do the cost analysis
> > to determine whether there will be a true saving.
>
> It isnt just about savings. I replaced a working 1950s fridge
> just because I got sick of manually defrosting it and because
> it was too small for my approach to shopping, a major run
> every 2 months or so, just because its too boring to bother with.
>
> > Comments?
> >
> > TMT

I think Rod's spot on this time.

These sort of articles are just mindless junk turned out to pretend to
be useful to magazine buyers, and theyre always there to help sell
more appliances, and always have been. The mag positively reviews the
things it sells, increasing sales, so advertisers want to adv in that
mag. Same old - its just a bs game. No conspiracy, its just each party
taking actions that suit their own ends.

NT

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 7:18 pm
From: "Ed Pawlowski"

<meow2222@care2.com> wrote in message
> These sort of articles are just mindless junk turned out to pretend to
> be useful to magazine buyers, and theyre always there to help sell
> more appliances, and always have been. The mag positively reviews the
> things it sells, increasing sales, so advertisers want to adv in that
> mag. Same old - its just a bs game. No conspiracy, its just each party
> taking actions that suit their own ends.

At best they are averages. There may be some basis for the numbers, but
there are too many variables to be useful. Some appliances start out with
better made parts. Some people use the dishwasher twice a day, others twice
a week. Some people just seem to abuse anything mechanical.

They state a dishwasher can last 5 to 12 years. So what? A range like that
does little to help a potential buyer decide anything. Most of our
appliances have lasted near or past the top numbers they give. .

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 10:14 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

meow2222@care2.com wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>
>>> FYI...
>>
>>> In reference to the suggested times
>>
>>> Air conditioners: 8 to 15 years
>>> Dishwashers: 5 to 12 years
>>> Disposals: 5 to 12 years
>>> Dryers: 8 to 12 years
>>> Freezers: 15 to 20 years
>>> Furnaces: 8 to 12 years
>>> Heat pumps: 8 to 12 years
>>> Refrigerators: 15 to 20 years
>>> Stoves: 15 to 20 years
>>> Washers: 8 to 12 years
>>> Water heaters: 8 to 12 years
>>
>> Those numbers are completely meaningless.
>>
>> What matters is whether the device has failed or not and what the
>> cost of the repair is relative to the cost of replacement and that
>> last
>> isnt constant either, obviously if you can repair it yourself and
>> just
>> pay for the parts required, its going to be viable to repair it for
>> longer than if you have to pay someone else to repair it etc.
>>
>>> I find my own experience with the most current appliances has
>>> been...
>>
>>> Air conditioners: 15 years
>>> Dishwashers: 21 years
>>> Disposals: 31 years
>>> Dryers: 23 years
>>> Freezers: 23 years
>>> Furnaces: 15 years
>>> Heat pumps: N/A
>>> Refrigerators: 23 years
>>> Stoves: 31 years
>>> Washers: 23 years
>>> Water heaters: 31 years
>>
>> And with some of those the replacement isnt just because its better
>> value
>> to replace it, it can be just because the new device is more capable
>> than
>> the old one was and you just say get sick of manually defrosting the
>> original manual defrost fridge etc and go for a frost free etc.
>
> Yes. And sometimes its the other way round, an older appliance can be
> more reliable, easier to use, better looking, etc. Some people still
> have a few ancient appliances that it would be crazy to replace with
> new, 1950s, 1920s etc.

Yeah, I do that with a Sunbeam Mixmaster that still works fine.

Picked up another identical one at a yard sale for peanuts.

Its amazing what those go for on ebay.

>>> As you can see, many of my appliances have lasted beyond
>>> the suggested replacement periods before needing replacement.

>> Just goes to show how stupid that 'suggested replacement period' idea is.

>>> Two comments on this article.

>>> First is when you can save substantial money with improved efficiency,
>>> I think it is a good idea to replace the appliance. Refrigerators,
>>> freezers, dryers, furnaces and air conditioners fall under this heading.

> Thats only true when the savings outweight the replacement cost,
> which is frequently not the case. When calculating savings one also
> has to take into account expected lifetimes of the newer replacement,
> which in some cases can be all too short. Its a mistake to assume
> replacement is the way to go with many furnaces.

>> And since advances with particular technology arent uniform,
>> the idea of a specified replacement cycle is even sillier.

>>> These are appliances that run for a long period
>>> of time and use considerable amount of energy.

>>> Second when you buy an appliance buy one as generic
>>> as possible. The more fashion conscious it is, the sooner
>>> it will be out of style and become an eyesore.

> you got to live with it for 20+ years. So no lime green fridges!

>> I'm never ever stupid enough to replace stuff for that reason.

>>> There is a reason why white is the most popular color of appliances.

>> Doesnt work with laptops and other electronic appliances.

>> And its unlikely that say the bare metal style will go out of
>> fashion any time soon anyway.

>>> Third is always consider these types of articles with a grain of salt.

>> I dont even bother to read them in the first place.

>>> With the housing market and the economy in free fall,

>> Its nothing like in free fall.

>>> appliance manufacturers are desperate to get the consumer to buy
>>> their wares. Many industry trade groups will commission a writer to
>>> produce articles to motivate consumers under the guise of saving
>>> money to buy their wares.

>> Mindless conspiracy theory. This type of article has been around forever.

>>> (If you look you will find the car companies are doing the same thing.)

>> Hardly anyone bothers to read that sort of article about cars.

>>> Before doing any purchase, do the cost analysis
>>> to determine whether there will be a true saving.

>> It isnt just about savings. I replaced a working 1950s fridge
>> just because I got sick of manually defrosting it and because
>> it was too small for my approach to shopping, a major run
>> every 2 months or so, just because its too boring to bother with.

>>> Comments?

> I think Rod's spot on this time.

He is every time, and dont you forget it |-)

> These sort of articles are just mindless junk turned out to pretend to
> be useful to magazine buyers, and theyre always there to help sell
> more appliances, and always have been. The mag positively reviews the
> things it sells, increasing sales, so advertisers want to adv in that
> mag. Same old - its just a bs game. No conspiracy, its just each party
> taking actions that suit their own ends.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 10:16 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> <meow2222@care2.com> wrote in message
>> These sort of articles are just mindless junk turned out to pretend
>> to be useful to magazine buyers, and theyre always there to help sell
>> more appliances, and always have been. The mag positively reviews the
>> things it sells, increasing sales, so advertisers want to adv in that
>> mag. Same old - its just a bs game. No conspiracy, its just each
>> party taking actions that suit their own ends.
>
> At best they are averages. There may be some basis for the numbers,
> but there are too many variables to be useful. Some appliances start
> out with better made parts. Some people use the dishwasher twice a
> day, others twice a week. Some people just seem to abuse anything
> mechanical.
> They state a dishwasher can last 5 to 12 years. So what? A range
> like that does little to help a potential buyer decide anything.

> Most of our appliances have lasted near or past the top numbers they give. .

All of mine have, and WAY past the top number too.

But then I'm one of the few I know that kept a new car for 35+ years and only
replaced that because I was stupid enough to not fix a known leaking windscreen
until the floor rusted out and was no longer legally registerable anymore.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WWW.NIKESNEAKERS-INCHINA.COM【Regard】wholesale BBC,CA,DG,coogi,AKA and
the other brand jeans, wholesale lacoste shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4aa135df0f1272fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 5:52 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay alternative?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81ad82de073681df?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 6:44 pm
From: The Real Bev

OhioGuy wrote:

>>What stops you from putting an ad on the main Cincinnati Craigslist?
>
> Well, I tried it a couple of times, and they pulled it after noticing
> that I'm not actually in Cincinnati, and that it wasn't technically a
> "local" post.
>
>> Umm, ok. You can't mail cash and you really think buyers would be willing to
>> go to the post office, buy a money order, mail it, and then have to wait for

The post office is a crook and it gets no more of my money than I have to give it.

> You would be surprised. Prior to them forcing Paypal acceptance on
> anyone, when I would send a followup email after auction end, about half
> the people turned down paying by Paypal, and preferred to send out a
> check or money order. Some folks considered it easier to whip out a
> check and stuff it in an envelope than to get online, log in to Paypal
> and transfer funds that way.

My paypal account only uses a credit card -- NOBODY gets to play with my
checking account. I don't understand what the problem is; you can complain to
your credit card company if things down't go right -- what could possibly go
worng? I haven't had any problems buying stuff on ebay, but I've never bought
anything expensive, either.

--
Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm pretty sure omnipotent entities don't need
middlemen to get their message to the people.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 6:54 pm
From: The Real Bev

Brian Elfert wrote:

> OhioGuy <none@none.net> writes:
>
>>> Only a guess, but I assume Ebay got sick of people charging inflated
>>> shipping to get around final value fees. Things like Buy It Now for $1 on
>>> a $15 item, but charging $19.95 for $4 worth of shipping.
>
>>"Get Around?????" I think you meant to say "make more transparent" the
>>ever increasing fees Ebay was adding on.
>
> These sellers are/were ripping off Ebay. Ebay was only charging them a
> final value fee on the $1 price for the item when the seller should have
> been paying the FVF on at least $15. The seller charged a shipping fee of
> 4 to 5 times the actual shipping fee to get around the FVF fees that
> are/were not charged on shipping.
>
> This has nothing to do with fee transparency and everything to do with
> ripping off Ebay.

A lot of sellers/businesses are happy to refund the purchase price if the item
doesn't work, but the shipping fees (both ways) are gone forever. The good news
is you probably don't have to pay sales tax on shipping fees.

> I no longer shop Ebay much because a lot of sellers have left and I can
> rarely find what I want to buy unlike the old days of a few years back.
> No other site has the enough items and sellers to make it worth the time
> to look at.

It turns up when you do google searches for stuff you want to buy, and mostly
you can get a better price than non-ebay, providing you can find it on ebay.

--
Cheers,
Bev
=========================================================
"If you watch TV news, you know less about the world than
if you just drank gin straight from the bottle."
- Garrison Keillor

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal ideas
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b0fb633415061f1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 7:34 pm
From: "Macuser"

You can make a double potful, and refrigerate the extra for tomorrow's
coffee. Run the coffee maker only once for two days. Never want for iced
coffee.

--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy." ;)

> I don't know if there's a reasonable payback period or not. But it must
> be
> longer than the payback period of simply unplugging the coffee maker when
> you're not using it.
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hawaii prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e0c0da39dcac6ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 7:41 pm
From: "Macuser"

I'm going to Oahu next month (trip win). What can I expect as far as pricing
for meals, etc.? I don't plan on renting a car, and will be staying in the
Honolulu area for 3 nights. Give me your tips, please.

--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy." ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Health Savings Account question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ab0775bbc401eae4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 7:48 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <glcdg4$1g9t$1@news.ett.com.ua>, OhioGuy <none@none.net>
wrote:

> My wife's employer recently switched to what they call a "High
> Deductible" insurance. Previously, we were pretty well covered, with no
> out of pocket expenses other than copays. Now, the insurance pays the
> first $1,000 each year, then we are socked for the next $2,000. Then
> they switch back to paying everything after that. We were told that
> under this plan, we would never have to pay more than $2,000 in a
> calendar year out of pocket. Of course, they switched over to this new
> plan in the middle of the year, and my wife got pregnant. It resets
> Jan. 1, though, so it looks like we'll get hit with $4,000 out of pocket
> in less than 8 months.
>
> Anyway, here is my question. Her employer markets something as a
> health savings account, which in reality is a health spending account,
> or cafeteria plan. You can put money into it which is tax free, then
> use it for health related expenses. Trouble with that plan is that if
> you haven't spent it at the end of the year, the money in it goes to the
> EMPLOYER. It does not grow or get saved up over time. It is also not
> portable in any way, so it doesn't help save up for medical expenses
> over the long haul.
>
> Does anyone know if the new high deductible health insurance we are
> under would let us qualify for a true Health Savings Account at a credit
> union or something like that? Thanks!

Call your wife's HR department and/or the medical insurance company to
ask. They're in a much better position to answer your questions then
anyone in this newsgroup is.

I can tell you thought that my employer offers an optional health
savings plan. I have been participating in it for the past two years.
Last year when I set up my annual contributions into my health savings
account, I overestimated by several hundred dollars because I expected
to get some dental work done, but the dentist decided it wouldn't be
good for me to undergo the work. He decided that in November, which left
me a little over a month to spend the money I had been saving in order
to pay him.

I ended up buying an expensive new pair of prescription glasses, which
are the best pair of glasses I have ever worn. I also used some of the
excess funds to buy my parents and my sister a few over the counter
items that qualify as HSA purchases such as Tylenol, antacid tablets,
bandages, etc. I also bought myself enough lactaid tablets to last me
for a year! This past year, I didn't have much in the way of excess HSA
funds. I ended up using all but a few cents worth of my contributions.

You have to estimate what you and your wife will need during the year.
If your HSA plan is like mine though, you missed the enrollment period
for 2009, so you may have to wait until 2010 before you can participate
in an HSA.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: .99 store complaint
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/344e32ee920ae3a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 23 2009 7:52 pm
From: "Macuser"

A store that became a favorite was jacking up all the prices on food to
$1.29 just as I was shopping there. I made no food purchases that day, and
have moved along to a different store that hasn't changed. Vote with your
feet.

Even though the food prices were raised, the rest of the stuff was left
unchanged because it obviously is less popular. I was displeased. :(

--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy." ;)

"The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u3E3l.11209$X05.9966@newsfe03.iad...
>
> That's the maximum price. Some stuff, mostly food, is less than that, and
> they've recently expanded their food offerings. I love these stores.
>
> http://www.99only.com/about/index.htm
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Bev
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "If you see me running, try to keep up."
> ...Back of bomb technician's shirt

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