Frugal Living: Aug 22, 2008

Friday, August 22, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Use it or lose it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8826541b5009dfa9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:
> JR Weiss wrote:
>> "Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote:
>>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink,
>>>> and still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>
>>> Certain inverse (ET)funds, if carefully screened, continue to offer
>>> opportunities to profit and shall continue to do so as long as the
>>> stock market moves downward or even when indexes remain static. As
>>> long as that condition obtains, such funds maintain the same
>>> liquidity as any other ETF but, of course, become less so during a
>>> (significant) market rally.
>>
>> You missed his key criteria: "will not shrink, and still be
>> available on a few weeks' notice?"
>>
>> Most/all ETFs will incur a brokerage fee and further penalties if
>> withdrawn prior to 30-90 days. None have guaranteed returns.
>>
>>
>>> Leveraged funds, particularly certain so-called "short" ETFs, also
>>> have done quite well during this market downturn while others have,
>>> at the least, lost much less than the overall market as reflected
>>> in the indexes. Investing in these vehicles, though, is not for the
>>> faint-of-heart or for the inexperienced investor.
>>
>> Again, they do not meet his 2 basic criteria.
>
> Yeah, it's not like I keep my retirement savings in a bank account - I
> invest it. But that's so volatile it doesn't seem appropriate for
> money that I want to be able to spend (if necessary) on a few weeks'
> notice.
>
> In the 10 years since I got a "real job" and started investing for
> retirement, the Dow and S&P500 have struggled to match pace with
> inflation: <http://homepage.mac.com/ttsmyf>
> <http://www.geocities.com/petegersb/SPX-InflationAdjusted.GIF>
>
> I still invest, but I consider it to be a long-term undertaking. And
> for that matter, there's no guarantee there will be a good return even
> over the long run.

> Considering the rapid increase in standard of living in China
> and India over the last decade or so, and considering we
> do business with them, it surprises me that the median US
> standard of living really hasn't increased in a generation or so.

Bullshit it hasnt, most obviously with the size of the houses

Its hardly surprising that its increased much more in China and India given the low base they started from.

> Some things get better (e.g. invention of the Internet)

And that is a hell of a lot better in those 10 years, most obviously with the move from dialup to broadband.

> while others get worse (e.g. affordability of beach-front property).

But the size of the non beach front property you can afford has improved considerably.

In spades in the last year.

== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>> timeOday wrote:
>>
>>> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since
>>> this is far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to
>>> borrow my money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>>>
>>> Looking at Bankrate,
>>> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
>>>
>>> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>>> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink,
>>> and still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>>
>>> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it
>>> away :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make
>> extra payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home equity
>> line of credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it
>> immediately at a favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed
>> the equity money, so I was able to place my extra cash into the
>> mortgage, effectively saving about 6% - better and safer than most
>> any investment / minimizing money in al ow interest savings account.

> Maybe that is the best idea.

No maybe about it.

> Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt. It breaks the rule some
> advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as emergency savings,

Its a completely stupid rule when you have that type of mortgage.

> but maybe that's better than losing the money for good?

No maybe about it.

The only real time that you'd lose even more going that route is
with a recent new purchase at the top of the market where you
have seen the value of the property slashed in the last year or so.

== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote:
> "timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote...
>>> When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make
>>> extra payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home
>>> equity line of credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it
>>> immediately at a favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed
>>> the equity money, so I was able to place my extra cash into the
>>> mortgage, effectively saving about 6% - better and safer than most
>>> any investment / minimizing money in al ow interest savings
>>> account.
>
>> Maybe that is the best idea. Fortunately the mortgage is my only
>> debt. It breaks the rule some advocate of keeping X weeks of income
>> on hand as emergency savings, but maybe that's better than losing
>> the money for good?
>
> If it's for your emergency savings, a series of CDs that mature at 1-
> or 2-month intervals will work nicely. I have a series of 6 12-month
> CDs. It takes a bit of time to establish them, but then they can go
> on auto-pilot with renewable CDs.

The home equity loan makes a lot more sense, essentially because
the return is much better than on the CDs and its tax favored too.

> You can almost always find a bank with a relatively high teaser rate for new deposits and/or 12-18 month CDs.

But you could end up with a problem going that route if the bank goes bust.

Your money is fidc guaranteed, but you may not be able to get it
back quickly if you say get sacked just before the bank goes under.

> While you're working on that, paying down the mortgage is not a bad idea either...

Its the best idea return on the money wise.

== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:27 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote:
> "timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
> news:jcidnVYnruGiQjPVnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since
>> this is far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to
>> borrow my money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>>
>> Looking at Bankrate,
>>
> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&produc
> t=33>
>> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>>
>> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>>
> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSI
> NESS>
>>
>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink,
>> and still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>
>> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away
>> :)

> It's really worse than that - not only is the purchasing power
> shrinking, but part of the interest is taxed away. There is no
> such thing as an absolutely safe place to put your money.

Yes there is, in a fidc guaranteed account. Lousy return tho.

> Even if you use your savings to pay down your home mortgage (assuming
> you have one) the local real estate market could take a downturn, effectively
> erasing the equity you accumulate by paying off the debt.

Thats only relevant if you are forced to sell it.

And if you have had the mortgage for quite a while, you
wont be upside down currently unless its interest only etc.

== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:45 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If it's for your emergency savings, a series of CDs that mature at 1-
>> or 2-month intervals will work nicely. I have a series of 6 12-month
>> CDs. It takes a bit of time to establish them, but then they can go
>> on auto-pilot with renewable CDs.
>
> The home equity loan makes a lot more sense, essentially because
> the return is much better than on the CDs and its tax favored too.

An HE loan makes no sense at all. An HE Line of Credit is an idea that has
merit, but only in limited cases.

>> You can almost always find a bank with a relatively high teaser rate for new
>> deposits and/or 12-18 month CDs.
>
> But you could end up with a problem going that route if the bank goes bust.
>
> Your money is fidc guaranteed, but you may not be able to get it
> back quickly if you say get sacked just before the bank goes under.

To the $100K per bank FDIC limit, the money will ALWAYS be available within the
OP's "few weeks" criteria.

It is certainly safer than taking out a HE loan or drawing on a HELOC after
you're sacked! Not only do you increase your debt load, but you also have no
money with which to pay the mortgage!

== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:37 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...

>>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will
>>>> not shrink, and still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>
>>> Some places do offer much better rates than that, like around 8%
>>
>> Who offers 8% to a US investor on such an account?
>
> Almost everyone.

Here we go again... More total garbage...

== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:39 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt. It breaks the rule some
>> advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as emergency savings,
>
> Its a completely stupid rule when you have that type of mortgage.

And what "type" is that? Since the OP didn't say what type mortgage he has,
your response is totally baseless and worthless.

== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:56 pm
From: clams_casino

timeOday wrote:

>clams_casino wrote:
>
>
>>timeOday wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
>>>far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
>>>money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>>>
>>>Looking at Bankrate,
>>><http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
>>>
>>>it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>>>
>>>Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>>><http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
>>>still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>>
>>>Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make extra
>>payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home equity line of
>>credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it immediately at a
>>favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed the equity money, so I
>>was able to place my extra cash into the mortgage, effectively saving
>>about 6% - better and safer than most any investment / minimizing money
>>in al ow interest savings account.
>>
>>
>
>Maybe that is the best idea. Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt.
>It breaks the rule some advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as
>emergency savings, but maybe that's better than losing the money for good?
>
>

Keeping X weeks is probably best if one has no equity, but I always
figured my equity could be tapped if I ever needed it. Consequently, I
barely kept a few weeks quick cash & kept paying down mortgage. Even if
I needed to borrow against that equity, it would have been greater (and
safer) than if I was to save it elsewhere. Of course, that excess
equity should only be tapped if / when absolutely needed.

== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will
>>>>> not shrink, and still be available on a few weeks' notice?

>>>> Some places do offer much better rates than that, like around 8%

>>> Who offers 8% to a US investor on such an account?

>> Almost everyone.

> Here we go again...

Just how many of you are there between those ears, child ?

> More total garbage...

Your sig is supposed to have -- on a line by itself in front of it, child.

== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> If it's for your emergency savings, a series of CDs that mature at 1- or 2-month intervals will work nicely. I have
>>> a series of 6 12-month CDs. It takes a bit of time to establish them, but then they can go
>>> on auto-pilot with renewable CDs.

>> The home equity loan makes a lot more sense, essentially because
>> the return is much better than on the CDs and its tax favored too.

> An HE loan makes no sense at all. An HE Line of Credit

Same thing, different words.

> is an idea that has merit, but only in limited cases.

What was being discussed was the situation he listed. Its fine for that.

>>> You can almost always find a bank with a relatively high teaser rate for new deposits and/or 12-18 month CDs.

>> But you could end up with a problem going that route if the bank goes bust.

>> Your money is fidc guaranteed, but you may not be able to get it
>> back quickly if you say get sacked just before the bank goes under.

> To the $100K per bank FDIC limit, the money will ALWAYS be available within the OP's "few weeks" criteria.

Wrong, as always. It can be longer than that.

> It is certainly safer than taking out a HE loan or drawing on a HELOC after you're sacked!

The first wasnt even proposed, fool.

> Not only do you increase your debt load, but you also have no money with which to pay the mortgage!

Wrong, as always. You just pay it using the line of credit, fuckwit.

== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote
>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>> timeOday wrote:

>>>>> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is far below current inflation, I am
>>>>> actually paying them to borrow my money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.

>>>>> Looking at Bankrate,
>>>>> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>

>>>>> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%

>>>>> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>>>>> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>

>>>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink,
>>>>> and still be available on a few weeks' notice?

>>>>> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)

>>>> When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make
>>>> extra payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home equity
>>>> line of credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it
>>>> immediately at a favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed
>>>> the equity money, so I was able to place my extra cash into the
>>>> mortgage, effectively saving about 6% - better and safer than most
>>>> any investment / minimizing money in al ow interest savings account.

>>> Maybe that is the best idea.

>> No maybe about it.

>>> Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt. It breaks the rule some
>>> advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as emergency savings,

>> Its a completely stupid rule when you have that type of mortgage.

> And what "type" is that?

A HELOC, fuckwit.

> Since the OP didn't say what type mortgage he has,

That wasnt being discussed. What was being discussed was whether
there is any point in 'emergency savings' if you have a HELOC, fuckwit.

> your response is totally baseless and worthless.

Never ever could bullshit and lie its way out of a wet paper bag.

== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:44 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> A HELOC, fuckwit.
> That wasnt being discussed. What was being discussed was whether
> there is any point in 'emergency savings' if you have a HELOC, fuckwit. Never
> ever could bullshit and lie its way out of a wet paper bag.

Yet again, rodless admits total cluelessness by resorting to insult and
profanity...

== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:43 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> An HE loan makes no sense at all. An HE Line of Credit
>
> Same thing, different words.

Nope. Different terms, different criteria, different rules...

>> is an idea that has merit, but only in limited cases.
>
> What was being discussed was the situation he listed. Its fine for that.

Nope. You have no idea how much the OP owes or how much he has saved. You have
no idea whether it would be even SANE for him, much less "fine"!

>> To the $100K per bank FDIC limit, the money will ALWAYS be available within
>> the OP's "few weeks" criteria.
>
> Wrong, as always. It can be longer than that.

Hasn't been, in recent history.

>> It is certainly safer than taking out a HE loan or drawing on a HELOC after
>> you're sacked!
>
> The first wasnt even proposed, fool.

That's EXACTLY the result of your "fine for that" proposal!

>> Not only do you increase your debt load, but you also have no money with
>> which to pay the mortgage!
>
> Wrong, as always. You just pay it using the line of credit, fuckwit.

I don't doubt that you can't see the insanity of attempting to pay off your
mortgage loan with money borrowed from your other mortgage loan... You deplete
the HE loan (i.e., second mortgage) money attempting to pay the mortgage, then
lose the house because you can't pay the HE mortgage!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Value pick for the week: BPL
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/336301697917beb9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Cheapo Groovo <ccsj@nospam.com> wrote:
>> I was talking about the Roth IRA.
>>
>>> I do agree that it would be rather foolish for anyone to put
>>> EVERYTHING into a single stock.
>>
>> Its foolish for anyone to put the whole Roth IRA into just one too
>> or even most of it.
>
>>
>>
> Not if the IRA was investing in VTI or IYY

Its always foolish to have it all in just one.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The DSL 12-Month Commitment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb1b6c0797411fac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 6:04 pm
From: spam@nospam.org (Messiah Obama)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:08:53 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
>Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
>proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
>
>
She's back for another goosin'.

Goose, goose, goose.

Shame.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:06 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CNN: Half-ton woman indicted in slaying of nephew
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/935cc02fc86d96ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 6:59 pm
From: larry@nowhere.com (Larry)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/22/obese.woman.ap/index.html

EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- Prosecutors are trying to decide how to jail and
bring to court a nearly half-ton, bedridden woman accused of killing her
2-year-old nephew.

A grand jury indicted Mayra Lizbeth Rosales, 27, on Thursday on one count
of first-degree murder and on one count of injury to a child in the death
of Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. She previously had been charged with capital murder.

Rosales weighs nearly 1,000 pounds and cannot fit through a door to leave
her home, leaving prosecutors wondering how to bring her to court. As of
Thursday evening, she was not in custody.

Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Trevino said that holding her at the county
jail for her trial would be impossible because she needs extensive medical
care.

"She would die," Trevino said in Thursday's online edition of The Monitor
in McAllen.

The grand jury indicted Rosales after an autopsy confirmed investigators'
suspicions that the child died March 18 because he had been struck.
Investigators believe that the toddler was struck at least twice, crushing
his head.

Authorities recommended that Rosales' bail be set at $150,000.

The boy's mother, Jaime Rosales, was charged with injury to a child because
she is accused of leaving her son alone with his aunt. Her bail has been
set at $100,000.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:12 pm
From: lisajoe@privacy.net

On 23 Aug 2008 01:59:44 -0000, in misc.consumers.frugal-living larry@nowhere.com
(Larry) wrote:

>http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/22/obese.woman.ap/index.html
>
>EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- Prosecutors are trying to decide how to jail and
>bring to court a nearly half-ton, bedridden woman accused of killing her
>2-year-old nephew.
>
>A grand jury indicted Mayra Lizbeth Rosales, 27, on Thursday on one count
>of first-degree murder and on one count of injury to a child in the death
>of Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. She previously had been charged with capital murder.
>
>Rosales weighs nearly 1,000 pounds and cannot fit through a door to leave
>her home, leaving prosecutors wondering how to bring her to court. As of
>Thursday evening, she was not in custody.
>
>Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Trevino said that holding her at the county
>jail for her trial would be impossible because she needs extensive medical
>care.
>
>"She would die," Trevino said in Thursday's online edition of The Monitor
>in McAllen.
>
>The grand jury indicted Rosales after an autopsy confirmed investigators'
>suspicions that the child died March 18 because he had been struck.
>Investigators believe that the toddler was struck at least twice, crushing
>his head.
>
>Authorities recommended that Rosales' bail be set at $150,000.
>
>The boy's mother, Jaime Rosales, was charged with injury to a child because
>she is accused of leaving her son alone with his aunt. Her bail has been
>set at $100,000.

I bet the pig needs a c-pap machine.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:41 pm
From: Sydney Gondomer

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:12:26 -0700, lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:

>On 23 Aug 2008 01:59:44 -0000, in misc.consumers.frugal-living larry@nowhere.com
>(Larry) wrote:
>
>>http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/22/obese.woman.ap/index.html
>>
>>EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- Prosecutors are trying to decide how to jail and
>>bring to court a nearly half-ton, bedridden woman accused of killing her
>>2-year-old nephew.
>>
>>A grand jury indicted Mayra Lizbeth Rosales, 27, on Thursday on one count
>>of first-degree murder and on one count of injury to a child in the death
>>of Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. She previously had been charged with capital murder.
>>
>>Rosales weighs nearly 1,000 pounds and cannot fit through a door to leave
>>her home, leaving prosecutors wondering how to bring her to court. As of
>>Thursday evening, she was not in custody.
>>
>>Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Trevino said that holding her at the county
>>jail for her trial would be impossible because she needs extensive medical
>>care.
>>
>>"She would die," Trevino said in Thursday's online edition of The Monitor
>>in McAllen.
>>
>>The grand jury indicted Rosales after an autopsy confirmed investigators'
>>suspicions that the child died March 18 because he had been struck.
>>Investigators believe that the toddler was struck at least twice, crushing
>>his head.
>>
>>Authorities recommended that Rosales' bail be set at $150,000.
>>
>>The boy's mother, Jaime Rosales, was charged with injury to a child because
>>she is accused of leaving her son alone with his aunt. Her bail has been
>>set at $100,000.
>
>
>I bet the pig needs a c-pap machine.

Hehe! That and a hell of a lot more. I don't believe this story
though. I have never heard of any human weighing that much. five
hundred to seven hundred yes, but not nine hundred and up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Are Teachers Overpaid?" by Mr. Tamim Ansary
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bc0959f836a427e3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:08 pm
From: Ken Lay

In article <KEqrk.401$p72.165@trnddc05>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> but the unions are fighting voucher because they know that their
> crappy teachers will be out of a job and then the union dues will dry
> up and their high and mighty leaders might have to come back and rut
> in the mud.

And then all the crappy teachers will come out of the churches and
various religious cults. Great idea. Who needs public schools when the
religious are so good at raping their own kids' minds and bodies.
--
Everybody lies. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney just suck at it.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:09 pm
From: Ken Lay

In article <4Dqrk.400$p72.348@trnddc05>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> and the school board in many places where i've lived isn't elected by
> the parents, but by the voting public; not the same thing.

Right, so parents don't get to vote in your town. Move, then. Love it or
leave it. You know, like at your church.
--
Everybody lies. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney just suck at it.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:10 pm
From: Ken Lay

In article <6Cqrk.399$p72.258@trnddc05>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> the unions hold them hostage with threats of walkouts. and then
> they walk out. has happened all over the country. imo, teachers are
> overpaid. just look at the crap they put out, and then, because of
> the unions, they can't be fired. i remember one case where the union
> actually fought to keep some sort of sex offender as a teacher.
> don't remember the outcome, but it proves the point.

That's not the only thing you don't remember. You forgot how to tell the
truth.
--
Everybody lies. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney just suck at it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My idea of frugal living with green fitness
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8faf3a507b4f1d57?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 7:59 pm
From: briant97

On Aug 22, 7:03 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 2:51 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>
> > briant97 wrote:
> > > I have recently become very interested in green fitness and feel it
> > > involves being frugal at the same time. Sure you may have to purchase
> > > a few new products to green your fitness in the end this will pay off
> > > tremendously. For example purchasing a bike for your fitness routine
> > > as well as your commute is a great way to become frugal and fit. I
> > > also consider biking a wonderful green fitness activity that can even
> > > be performed for fun with the family. Get the kids a bike you a bike
> > > and make an evening activity for all. If you would like to understand
> > > more on this topic you can visit my new website I have dedicated to
> > > this topic. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to
> > > contact me at anytime.
>
> > WE'd be helping somebody else's green movement if we bought all that
> > crap you're selling.
>
> You actually clicked the link? Green fitness includes "reusing"
> existing items around the house to get a workout, for example filling
> empty gallon jugs with water and using those as weights for strength
> training. I'm sure there's probably plenty of "recyclable" bicycles
> out there as well without having to buy new.
>
> This whole "green" bandwagon the media and manufacturing has jumped on
> is beginning to get annoying. If we all replaced our "non-green"
> items with "green"...wouldn't that result in a whole lot of garbage as
> we tossed out the less than green items? :D

I am not on a green bandwagon. This is true and from the heart and
frugal living I agree with would be finding a bike that can be
recycled however finding a decent communter bike that is recycled
would be hard to do. I am a member of the freecycle community in my
town and I hardly every see any bicycles given up. If they are any
good they are quickly picked up quickly. It also would not be a lot
of garbage tossed out as it could be recycled and turned into green
products. Good thing is I asked for suggestions and I will be taking
yours to heart. Which recycling I feel is being green as well as
frugal because you are just tossing out the trash you are making some
money back for you efforts.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vote for John McCain.. a mans man...not some pointy nose, smart guy.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f41a0c9e221cb6f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 8:21 pm
From: phil scott

On Aug 22, 2:00 pm, "Jon von Leip...@mayday.com"
<JonLeip...@myway.com> wrote:
> On Aug 21, 1:22 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 20, 5:52 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > I haven't watched the video, but why on earth would you want to vote
> > for
> > a dumb guy?
>
> Dumb guys can be just as capable as smart guys at following orders.
> Imo, the Rockefeller Empire controls both candidates. Foreign policy
> will be directed by either Zbigniew B., or Kissinger, both long-time
> servitors of the Rockefellers.
>
> Cabinet posts will be filled with Trilateral Commission members and/or
> CFR guys.
>
> THe same Wall Street gang (Goldman Sachs and such) will serve as econ
> advisors
> regardless of who sits on the throne. (Imo, in the US, changing
> presidents is little more than changing of the guard)
>
> ".....You know, by the time you become the leader of a country,
> someone else makes all the decisions." ~Bill Clinton speaking in
> Ireland (August 1998)

an accurate assessment.... and that goes on even over the violent
protests of the people.

The historical solution has been a total collapse of the working
class, then due to insufficient tax base to fund
military operations and govt, collapse of govt... the markers of
this final stage are well known. Importing slave labor, as the
currency is debased and wars are begun to seize the assets of other
nations.

Such wars generate enemies on a 360 degree perimeter and incite those
brough in to do the heavy labor to viiolence... such attack is not
remotely defensible... the nation collapses.

The reboot cycle used to take 2 or 3 generations, in the past hundred
years, its down to a generation or so.
These are not to be confused with the more comon depression cycles...
these are national life cycles (at approx 5 generations, the last one
having become terminally corrupt).

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: free download absolutely free photos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b2afc7b17b4bdfb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 8:34 pm
From: mcaani02@gmail.com

http://www.hollywoodstarvideos.blogspot.com/
http://www.earnpoundss.blogspot.com/
http://www.hollywoodphotoss.blogspot.com/
http://www.onidamobiles.blogspot.com/

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Use it or lose it? - 14 messages, 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8826541b5009dfa9?hl=en
* Vote for John McCain.. a mans man...not some pointy nose, smart guy. - 2
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f41a0c9e221cb6f?hl=en
* Plastic shards in Hot Pockets - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9db22bba40f40e15?hl=en
* Homemade Cleaner? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ae05b3b6d060438?hl=en
* The DSL 12-Month Commitment - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb1b6c0797411fac?hl=en
* My idea of frugal living with green fitness - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8faf3a507b4f1d57?hl=en
* Value pick for the week: BPL - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/336301697917beb9?hl=en

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 1:47 pm
From: Derald

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

>Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
>still be available on a few weeks' notice?
Certain inverse (ET)funds, if carefully screened, continue to offer
opportunities to profit and shall continue to do so as long as the stock
market moves downward or even when indexes remain static. As long as
that condition obtains, such funds maintain the same liquidity as any
other ETF but, of course, become less so during a (significant) market
rally.
Basic reading here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_etf

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/inverse-funds-can-keep-bear/story.aspx?guid=%7B16857FE2-DCEB-4D30-8B12-23029BCA13C0%7D

Leveraged funds, particularly certain so-called "short" ETFs, also
have done quite well during this market downturn while others have, at
the least, lost much less than the overall market as reflected in the
indexes. Investing in these vehicles, though, is not for the
faint-of-heart or for the inexperienced investor. Take a look here:

http://www.profunds.com/ProFundsOverview/Content/default.fs

http://www.proshares.com/

Be advised, though, that the two above citations are commercial sites
under the same corporate umbrella. A little W3 searching should uncover
at least a few more objective sources.
--
Derald

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 1:18 pm
From: jdoe

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:46:05 -0600, timeOday
<timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

>The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
>far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
>money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, you need to
try and find a better rate of return
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 1:44 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>>Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
>>still be available on a few weeks' notice?

> Certain inverse (ET)funds, if carefully screened, continue to offer
> opportunities to profit and shall continue to do so as long as the stock
> market moves downward or even when indexes remain static. As long as
> that condition obtains, such funds maintain the same liquidity as any
> other ETF but, of course, become less so during a (significant) market
> rally.

You missed his key criteria: "will not shrink, and still be available on a few
weeks' notice?"

Most/all ETFs will incur a brokerage fee and further penalties if withdrawn
prior to 30-90 days. None have guaranteed returns.

> Leveraged funds, particularly certain so-called "short" ETFs, also
> have done quite well during this market downturn while others have, at
> the least, lost much less than the overall market as reflected in the
> indexes. Investing in these vehicles, though, is not for the
> faint-of-heart or for the inexperienced investor.

Again, they do not meet his 2 basic criteria.

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 1:41 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>
>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will
>> not shrink, and still be available on a few weeks' notice?

> Some places do offer much better rates than that, like around 8%

Who offers 8% to a US investor on such an account?

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 1:55 pm
From: clams_casino

timeOday wrote:

>The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
>far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
>money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>
>Looking at Bankrate,
><http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
>it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>
>Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
><http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>
>Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
>still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>
>Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)
>
>

When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make extra
payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home equity line of
credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it immediately at a
favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed the equity money, so I
was able to place my extra cash into the mortgage, effectively saving
about 6% - better and safer than most any investment / minimizing money
in al ow interest savings account.

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 3:29 pm
From: "catalpa"

"JR Weiss" <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3YSdnR6KbOXIuDLVnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>>
>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will
>>> not shrink, and still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>
>> Some places do offer much better rates than that, like around 8%
>
> Who offers 8% to a US investor on such an account?
>

You left out the "That does involve foreign currency exchange risk tho."

Local currency short term interest rates are:

8.70% Mexico
8.00% New Zealand
7.25% Australia
5.00% Great Britain
4.30% Euro
3.00% Canada
2.00% USA
0.55% Japan

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 3:48 pm
From: timeOday

clams_casino wrote:
> timeOday wrote:
>
>> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
>> far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
>> money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>>
>> Looking at Bankrate,
>> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
>>
>> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>>
>> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>>
>>
>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
>> still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>
>> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)
>>
>>
>
>
> When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make extra
> payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home equity line of
> credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it immediately at a
> favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed the equity money, so I
> was able to place my extra cash into the mortgage, effectively saving
> about 6% - better and safer than most any investment / minimizing money
> in al ow interest savings account.

Maybe that is the best idea. Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt.
It breaks the rule some advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as
emergency savings, but maybe that's better than losing the money for good?

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:12 pm
From: timeOday

JR Weiss wrote:
> "Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote:
>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
>>> still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>
>> Certain inverse (ET)funds, if carefully screened, continue to offer
>> opportunities to profit and shall continue to do so as long as the stock
>> market moves downward or even when indexes remain static. As long as
>> that condition obtains, such funds maintain the same liquidity as any
>> other ETF but, of course, become less so during a (significant) market
>> rally.
>
> You missed his key criteria: "will not shrink, and still be available on a few
> weeks' notice?"
>
> Most/all ETFs will incur a brokerage fee and further penalties if withdrawn
> prior to 30-90 days. None have guaranteed returns.
>
>
>> Leveraged funds, particularly certain so-called "short" ETFs, also
>> have done quite well during this market downturn while others have, at
>> the least, lost much less than the overall market as reflected in the
>> indexes. Investing in these vehicles, though, is not for the
>> faint-of-heart or for the inexperienced investor.
>
> Again, they do not meet his 2 basic criteria.

Yeah, it's not like I keep my retirement savings in a bank account - I
invest it. But that's so volatile it doesn't seem appropriate for money
that I want to be able to spend (if necessary) on a few weeks' notice.

In the 10 years since I got a "real job" and started investing for
retirement, the Dow and S&P500 have struggled to match pace with inflation:
<http://homepage.mac.com/ttsmyf>
<http://www.geocities.com/petegersb/SPX-InflationAdjusted.GIF>

I still invest, but I consider it to be a long-term undertaking. And
for that matter, there's no guarantee there will be a good return even
over the long run.

Considering the rapid increase in standard of living in China and India
over the last decade or so, and considering we do business with them, it
surprises me that the median US standard of living really hasn't
increased in a generation or so. Some things get better (e.g. invention
of the Internet) while others get worse (e.g. affordability of
beach-front property).

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:37 pm
From: "ChairMan"

In news:ktErk.175335$102.151902@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx>spewed forth:
> "timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
> news:jcidnVYnruGiQjPVnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since
>> this is far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to
>> borrow my money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>>
>> Looking at Bankrate,
>> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
>> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>>
>> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>>
>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink,
>> and still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>
>> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away
>> :)
>
> You could use it as seed money to start your own business in one of
> these promising growth industries:
>
> debt collector
> skip tracer
> repo man
> foreclosure assistance
> suicide counselor
> bankruptcy attorney
> payday lender (ok,maybe not this one.)

I called the suicide hotline the other day and they asked me if I could
drive a truck or fly a plane.

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:47 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote...
>> When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make extra
>> payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home equity line of
>> credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it immediately at a
>> favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed the equity money, so I
>> was able to place my extra cash into the mortgage, effectively saving
>> about 6% - better and safer than most any investment / minimizing money
>> in al ow interest savings account.

> Maybe that is the best idea. Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt.
> It breaks the rule some advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as
> emergency savings, but maybe that's better than losing the money for good?

If it's for your emergency savings, a series of CDs that mature at 1- or 2-month
intervals will work nicely. I have a series of 6 12-month CDs. It takes a bit
of time to establish them, but then they can go on auto-pilot with renewable
CDs.

You can almost always find a bank with a relatively high teaser rate for new
deposits and/or 12-18 month CDs.

While you're working on that, paying down the mortgage is not a bad idea
either...

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:59 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:Lo2dnaoLJaC83zLVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com...
> clams_casino wrote:
>> timeOday wrote:
>>
>>> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
>>> far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
>>> money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>>>
>>> Looking at Bankrate,
>>> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
>>>
>>> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>>> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
>>> still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>>>
>>> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> When I had a mortgage and found myself with extra cash, I'd make extra
>> payments against the mortgage. I also had an open home equity line of
>> credit so if I needed money quickly, I could get it immediately at a
>> favorable, tax deductible rate. I rarely needed the equity money, so I
>> was able to place my extra cash into the mortgage, effectively saving
>> about 6% - better and safer than most any investment / minimizing money
>> in al ow interest savings account.
>
> Maybe that is the best idea. Fortunately the mortgage is my only debt.
> It breaks the rule some advocate of keeping X weeks of income on hand as
> emergency savings, but maybe that's better than losing the money for good?

well, if real estate in your area is in a downward spiral, it just seems to
me that
you'd be hastening the loss of your money.

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:07 pm
From: "Lou"

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:jcidnVYnruGiQjPVnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
> far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
> money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>
> Looking at Bankrate,
>
<http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&produc
t=33>
> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>
> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
>
<http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSI
NESS>
>
> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
> still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>
> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)

It's really worse than that - not only is the purchasing power shrinking,
but part of the interest is taxed away. There is no such thing as an
absolutely safe place to put your money. Even if you use your savings to
pay down your home mortgage (assuming you have one) the local real estate
market could take a downturn, effectively erasing the equity you accumulate
by paying off the debt.

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:11 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>>
>>> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will
>>> not shrink, and still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>
>> Some places do offer much better rates than that, like around 8%
>
> Who offers 8% to a US investor on such an account?

Almost everyone.

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Bullshit it hasnt, most obviously with the size of the houses

Its hardly surprising that its increased much more in China and India given the low base they started from.

> Some things get better (e.g. invention of the Internet)

And that is a hell of a lot better in those 10 years, most obviously with the move from dialup to broadband.

> while others get worse (e.g. affordability of beach-front property).

But the size of the non beach front property you can afford has improved considerably.

In spades in the last year.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 1:45 pm
From: "Jon von Leipzig@mayday.com"

> I know how many houses I own. One. while the elite have to get back to
> you. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121937270122562683.html?mod=googlenew...

They're probably his wife's homes. She got rich by virtue of being
the daughter of a mobster. (daddy took the rap for the head mobster of
Arizona, served time, and was rewarded with a big beer
distributorship) It was valued at $200 mill, back in 2000. She got 37%
of it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 2:00 pm
From: "Jon von Leipzig@mayday.com"

On Aug 21, 1:22 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 20, 5:52 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> I haven't watched the video, but why on earth would you want to vote
> for
> a dumb guy?

Dumb guys can be just as capable as smart guys at following orders.
Imo, the Rockefeller Empire controls both candidates. Foreign policy
will be directed by either Zbigniew B., or Kissinger, both long-time
servitors of the Rockefellers.

Cabinet posts will be filled with Trilateral Commission members and/or
CFR guys.

THe same Wall Street gang (Goldman Sachs and such) will serve as econ
advisors
regardless of who sits on the throne. (Imo, in the US, changing
presidents is little more than changing of the guard)

".....You know, by the time you become the leader of a country,
someone else makes all the decisions." ~Bill Clinton speaking in
Ireland (August 1998)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Plastic shards in Hot Pockets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9db22bba40f40e15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 2:07 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

http://consumerist.com/5032251/pepperoni-hot-pockets-recalled-for-containing-plastic

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 3:26 pm
From: lorad

On Aug 22, 2:07 pm, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/5032251/pepperoni-hot-pockets-recalled-for-con...

See? They should have called them 'Plastic Pockets'.

"Eat! You will Like!"

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:10 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Aug 22, 5:07 pm, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/5032251/pepperoni-hot-pockets-recalled-for-con...

I prefer the "Ham Cheese & Glass Shard" flavored Hot Pockets.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Homemade Cleaner?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ae05b3b6d060438?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 2:41 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

Check out Heloise Hints for Singles.
Given to me when my mom died.

THings like vineagar and toothpaste for cleaning

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 2:46 pm
From: spam@nospam.org (Messiah Obama)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 04:59:33 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

What choo mammy gwine say?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 2:51 pm
From: Al Bundy

briant97 wrote:
> I have recently become very interested in green fitness and feel it
> involves being frugal at the same time. Sure you may have to purchase
> a few new products to green your fitness in the end this will pay off
> tremendously. For example purchasing a bike for your fitness routine
> as well as your commute is a great way to become frugal and fit. I
> also consider biking a wonderful green fitness activity that can even
> be performed for fun with the family. Get the kids a bike you a bike
> and make an evening activity for all. If you would like to understand
> more on this topic you can visit my new website I have dedicated to
> this topic. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to
> contact me at anytime.

WE'd be helping somebody else's green movement if we bought all that
crap you're selling.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:03 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Aug 22, 2:51 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> briant97 wrote:
> > I have recently become very interested in green fitness and feel it
> > involves being frugal at the same time. Sure you may have to purchase
> > a few new products to green your fitness in the end this will pay off
> > tremendously. For example purchasing a bike for your fitness routine
> > as well as your commute is a great way to become frugal and fit. I
> > also consider biking a wonderful green fitness activity that can even
> > be performed for fun with the family. Get the kids a bike you a bike
> > and make an evening activity for all. If you would like to understand
> > more on this topic you can visit my new website I have dedicated to
> > this topic. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to
> > contact me at anytime.
>
> WE'd be helping somebody else's green movement if we bought all that
> crap you're selling.

You actually clicked the link? Green fitness includes "reusing"
existing items around the house to get a workout, for example filling
empty gallon jugs with water and using those as weights for strength
training. I'm sure there's probably plenty of "recyclable" bicycles
out there as well without having to buy new.

This whole "green" bandwagon the media and manufacturing has jumped on
is beginning to get annoying. If we all replaced our "non-green"
items with "green"...wouldn't that result in a whole lot of garbage as
we tossed out the less than green items? :D

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 3:24 pm
From: Cheapo Groovo

> I was talking about the Roth IRA.
>
> > I do agree that it would be rather foolish for anyone to put EVERYTHING into a single stock.
>
> Its foolish for anyone to put the whole Roth IRA into just one too or even most of it.

>
>
Not if the IRA was investing in VTI or IYY

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25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Luxury Patek Philippe Watches Discount - Hot Shop Patek Philippe Watches Low
Price - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8d23d0f557019360?hl=en
* Vote for John McCain.. a mans man...not some pointy nose, smart guy. - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f41a0c9e221cb6f?hl=en
* Citroen c4 review c reviews economy - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0e2600362469224c?hl=en
* Would you stop for a moment?! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/19eea8f844214832?hl=en
* Dangerous/deadly chew toy - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d3d74f37eaeb3a90?hl=en
* The DSL 12-Month Commitment - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb1b6c0797411fac?hl=en
* Cramar Cat Sanctuary 0121 445 1840 stock Petporte Microchip Catflaps £89.99 -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a279739af2526fb0?hl=en
* baby - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5252f006bc674b3a?hl=en
* Use it or lose it? - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8826541b5009dfa9?hl=en
* Labor Day: MAYDAY - Why Do You Stay Day? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/78e631926b8480de?hl=en
* How to select a reliable used car? - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d6e74503ddeed27?hl=en
* Nike Air Jordan 1 I Shoes Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 1 AJF1 AJ1F Jordan 1
fusion Nike Air Jordan 2 II Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 2 AJF2 AJ2F Jordan 2
fusion Nike Air Jordan 3 III Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 3 AJF3 AJ3F Jordan 3
fusion Nike Air Jordan 4 IV Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 4 AJF4 AJ4F Jordan 4
fusion Nike Air Jordan 5 V Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 5 AJF5 AJ5F Jordan 5
fusion Nike Air Jordan 6 VI Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 6 AJF6 AJ6F Jordan 6
Rings Jordan 6 fusion Nike Air Jordan 7 VII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 7 AJF7
AJ7F Jordan 7 fusion Nike Air Jordan 8 VIII Force 1 Jordan 8 Fusion AJF 8 AJF8
AJ8F Jordan 8 fusion Nike Air Jordan 9 IX Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 9 AJF9 AJ9
F Jordan 9 fusion Nike Air Jordan 10 X Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 10 AJF10 AJ10
F Jordan 10 fusion Nike Air Jordan 11 XI Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 11 AJF11 AJ
11F Jordan 11 fusion Nike Air Jordan 12 XII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 12 AJF12
AJ12F Jordan 12 fusion Nike Air Jordan 13 XIII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 13
AJF13 AJ13F Jordan 13 fusion Nike Air Jordan 14 XIV Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF
14 AJF14 AJ14F Jordan 14 fusion Nike Air Jordan 15 XV Force 1 Jordan Fusion
AJF 15 AJF15 AJ15F Jordan 15 fusion Nike Air Jordan 16 XVI Force 1 Jordan
Fusion AJF 16 AJF16 AJ16F Jordan 16 fusion Nike Air Jordan 17 XVII Force 1
Jordan Fusion AJF 17 AJF17 AJ17F Jordan 17 fusion Nike Air Jordan 18 XVIII
Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF18 AJF18 AJ18F Jordan 18 fusion Nike Air Jordan 19
XIX Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 19 AJF19 AJ19F Jordan 19 fusion Nike Air Jordan
20 XX Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 20 AJF20 AJ20F Jordan 20 fusion Nike Air
Jordan 21 XXI PE Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 21 AJF21 AJ21F Jordan 21 fusion
Nike Air Jordan XXII 22 Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 22 AJF22 AJ22F Jordan 22
fusion Nike Air Jordan XXIII 23 Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 23 AJF23 AJ23F
Jordan 23 fusion - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b8d61486103dce84?hl=en
* My idea of frugal living with green fitness - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8faf3a507b4f1d57?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Luxury Patek Philippe Watches Discount - Hot Shop Patek Philippe
Watches Low Price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8d23d0f557019360?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 21 2008 11:53 pm
From: blog107@watchesblog.cn

Luxury Patek Philippe Watches Discount - Hot Shop Patek Philippe
Watches Low Price

Best Discount Watches : http://www.hotwatch.org
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Fake Patek Philippe Grand Complications Watches :
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Fake Patek Philippe Complicated Timepieces Watches :
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Fake Patek Philippe Aquanaut Watches :
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Fake Patek Philippe Calatrava Watches :
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Fake Patek Philippe Gondolo Watches :
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Fake Patek Philippe Golden Ellipse Watches :
http://patek-philippe.hotwatch.org/Patek-Philippe-Golden-Ellipse.html

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 2:20 am
From: A VFW

In article <srhi-112548.23430620082008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:

> In article
> <aa745e01-1e0b-47ab-b4c9-e2217f6909f3@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGWakF5XgYM&NR=1
>
> A man's man who can barely remember which shoe goes on which foot.
>
> The link below points to a letter written by another former Vietnam POW.
> This letter should be read by anyone who plans to vote for president
> this November.
>
> http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

O.T. and P.C.

In article
<892b1df2-d672-4dc1-97e8-cd1df2a4fc8d@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
"alt.politics.bush" <thomasw540@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 21 August 2008
>
> Fay turns towards Florida once again, sniffing out Limo Limbaugh.
> Oh, where, oh, where/does my true love dwell? When the Spirit of God
> hears the sound of blood lust coming across the Golden Microphone of
> the Enemas In Broadcast Network, it begins a spiral of agitation in a
> sort of cosmic version of a feeding frenzy. Right now, it is wringing
> out all the water it sucks up over the Atlantic without much wind, but
> if Florida was to toss in an execution or two this weekend, the furies
> may become roused. If McCain was to choose Tom Ridge, Limo Limbaugh
> would have a conniption as the neo-cons are ushered to the cheap seats
> in the bleachers, where they should never have been allowed to
> leave.
>
> I don¹t know why McCain is so anxious to kiss the ass of neo-con
> girly-boys like Rich Lowry, Chicken Hawks like John Bolton and candy-
> ass Pro-Life Christians like John Hagee. It must have something to do
> with the sweet-nothings Steve Schmidt is blowing up his bustles.
> McCain¹s real problem as a fighter pilot is a profound target
> fascination that leaves him subject to the blind-side disaster, such
> as when he got shot down. Schmidt is his wing man, but there is
> nothing to defend him against Schmidt¹s blind side and Schmidt¹s blind
> side is basically the same as Rich Lowry¹s.
>
> Which is why I think McCain-Ridge is the dream team. Ridge has been
> part of a point team a time or two and his blind side is not Rich
> Lowry¹s or Limo Limbaugh¹s or Cheney¹s or Bushie¹s. Especially
> Bushie¹s. The difference between adult leadership being stuck on
> stupid is the difference between Tom Ridge and Bushie.
>
> McCain has this ad out where a woman voice over is talking pretty
> much the way Ditto Heads pass out the party line around the water
> cooler or at wedding receptions or after church and finishes up the ad
> with the assertion that Obama¹s tax plans will lead to economic
> disaster.
>
> We are already in the middle of an economic disaster as a result of
> 27 years of the Free Market principles of William F. Buckley, Jr.,¹s
> conservatism. I am personally fully in favor of personal wealth and
> the fact that McCain owns 7 houses reflects a prudent investment
> portfolio. It¹s hard to beat real estate for parking wealth until you
> need it. But Obama¹s remark that the economy looks different to
> someone with 7 houses than someone who has lost his/her house because
> of the sub-prime debacle or corporate downsizing or someone who
> doesn¹t have McCain¹s health care plan and needs it. The confluence
> of the Reagan Revolution, Gingrich¹s Contract With America and
> Bushie¹s Compassionate Conservatism is stranding the American middle
> class on the sand of the lake bed where trickle down economics has
> trickled out. This is what Edward¹s 2 Americas looks like. This the
> reality McCain refuses to acknowledge and Obama is equipped to
> transform.
>
> And that¹s the truth.
> Just for the record, McCain¹s ads have got one thing exactly correct:
> we are worse off now than we were ever just 4 years ago, much less
> since Phil Gramm begin to install Voodoo economics in the tax code and
> related legislation.
>
> And that, too, is the truth.

and ;
I know how many houses I own. One. while the elite have to get back to
you.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121937270122562683.html?mod=googlenews_ws
j
--
If guns are out-lawed. Only the Out-laws & politicians will have guns.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Citroen c4 review c reviews economy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0e2600362469224c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 2:31 am
From: Nick

You can get the Citroen c4 review c reviews economy..

Citroen c4 review c reviews economy and comfort in one. Posted on
August 21st, 2008 in Citroen c4 review by mannunni29 Only pople that
are interested in buying a Baby Prado. S worth noting at this point
that at mph the C VTS was pulling revs whilst the C VTS is just under
it. Ford Falcon Orion Consumer digital camera reviews and GT Citroen c
reviews.
For more info: http://www.digitalcamerareviewsblog.com/6514/citroen-c4-review-c-reviews-economy-and-comfort-in-one/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you stop for a moment?!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/19eea8f844214832?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:04 am
From: aassime abdellatif

ISLAM and the AIM of LIFE

What is your purpose in life? What is the rationale behind our life?
Why do we live in this life? These questions frequently intrigue
people who try to find accurate answers.

People provide different answers to these questions. Some people
believe the purpose of life is to accumulate wealth. But one may
wonder: What is the purpose of life after one has collected colossal
amounts of money? What then? What will the purpose be once money is
gathered? If the purpose of life is to gain money, there will be no
purpose after becoming wealthy. And in fact, here lies the problem of
some disbelievers or misbelievers at some stage of their life, when
collecting money is the target of their life. When they have
collected
the money they dreamt of, their life loses its purpose. They suffer
from the panic of nothingness and they live in tension and
restlessness.

Can Wealth Be an Aim?

We often hear of a millionaire committing suicide, sometimes, not the
millionaire himself but his wife, son, or daughter. The question that
poses itself is: Can wealth bring happiness to one's life? In most
cases the answer is NO. Is the purpose of collecting wealth a
standing
purpose? As we know, the five-year old child does not look for
wealth:
a toy for him is equal to a million dollars. The eighteen-year old
adolescent does not dream of wealth because he is busy with more
important things. The ninety-year old man does not care about money;
he is worried more about his health. This proves that wealth cannot
be
a standing purpose in all the stages of the individual's life.

Wealth can do little to bring happiness to a disbeliever, because he/
she is not sure about his fate. A disbeliever does not know the
purpose of life. And if he has a purpose, this purpose is doomed to
be
temporary or self destructive.

What is the use of wealth to a disbeliever if he feels scared of the
end and skeptical of everything. A disbeliever may gain a lot of
money, but will surely lose himself.

Worshipping Allah as an Aim

On the contrary, faith in Allah gives the believer the purpose of
life
that he needs. In Islam, the purpose of life is to worship Allah. The
term "Worship" covers all acts of obedience to Allah.

The Islamic purpose of life is a standing purpose. The true Muslim
sticks to this purpose throughout all the stages of his life, whether
he is a child, adolescent, adult, or an old man.

Worshipping Allah makes life purposeful and meaningful, especially
within the framework of Islam. According to Islam this worldly life
is
just a short stage of our life. Then there is the other life. The
boundary between the first and second life is the death stage, which
is a transitory stage to the second life. The type of life in the
second stage a person deserves depends on his deeds in the first
life.
At the end of the death stage comes the day of judgment. On this day,
Allah rewards or punishes people according to their deeds in the
first
life.

The First Life as an Examination

So, Islam looks at the first life as an examination of man. The death
stage is similar to a rest period after the test, i. e. after the
first life. The Day of Judgment is similar to the day of announcing
the results of the examinees. The second life is the time when each
examinee enjoys or suffers from the outcome of his behavior during
the
test period.

In Islam, the line of life is clear, simple, and logical: the first
life, death, the Day of Judgment, and then the second life. With this
clear line of life, the Muslim has a clear purpose in life. The
Muslim
knows he is created by Allah. Muslims know they are going to spend
some years in this first life, during which they have to obey God,
because God will question them and hold them responsible for their
public or private deeds, because Allah knows about all the deeds of
all people. The Muslim knows that his deeds in the first life will
determine the type of second life they will live in. The Muslim knows
that this first life is a very short one, one hundred years, more or
less, whereas the second life is an eternal one.

The Eternity of the Second Life

The concept of the eternity of the second life has a tremendous
effect
on a Muslims during their first life, because Muslims believe that
their first life determines the shape of their second life. In
addition, this determines the shape of their second life and this
determination will be through the Judgment of Allah, the All just and
Almighty.

With this belief in the second life and the Day of Judgment, the
Muslim's life becomes purposeful and meaningful. Moreover, the
Muslim's standing purpose is to go to Paradise in the second life.

In other words, the Muslim's permanent purpose is to obey Allah, to
submit to Allah, to carry out His orders, and to keep in continues
contact with Him through prayers (five times a day), through fasting
(one month a year), through charity (as often as possible), and
through pilgrimage (once in one's life).

The Need for a Permanent Purpose

Disbelievers have purposes in their lives such as collecting money
and
property, indulging in sex, eating, and dancing. But all these
purposes are transient and passing ones. All these purposes come and
go, go up and down. Money comes and goes. Health comes and goes.
Sexual activities cannot continue forever. All these lusts for money,
food and sex cannot answer the individual's questions: so what? Then
What?

However, Islam saves Muslims from the trouble of asking the question,
because Islam makes it clear, from the very beginning, that the
permanent purpose of the Muslim in this life is to obey Allah in
order
to go to Paradise in the second life.

We should know that the only way for our salvation in this life and
in
the hereafter is to know our Lord who created us, believe in Him, and
worship Him alone.

We should also know our Prophet whom Allah had sent to all mankind,
believe in Him and follow Him. We should, know the religion of truth
which our Lord has commanded us to believe in, and practice it ...

Those in search of truth

Who have an open mind and heart,

Islamic Education Foundation

Welcome You.

Objectives: -

To Convey the message of Islam

To Educate Muslims about Islam

To keep in close contact with new Muslims.

Activities:

Offering Courses and presenting lectures about Islam in several
languages.

Teaching Islam and Arabic.

Teaching new Muslims to receive the Holy Quran.

Helping Non- Muslims embrace Islam and complete the required
procedures

We advise you visiting :
http://www.islam-guide.com
http://www.thetruereligion.org
http://www.it-is-truth.org
http://www.beconvinced.com
http://www.plaintruth.org
http://english.islamway.com
http://www.todayislam.com
http://www.prophetmuhammed.org
http://www.islamtoday.net/english/
http://www.islamunveiled.org
http://www.islamic-knowledge.com

We willingly recive any inquries at the e-mail :

musl...@hotmail.com

http://www.islam-qa.com

http://www.islam-online.net

http://www.al-islam.com

http://www.al-sunnah.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dangerous/deadly chew toy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d3d74f37eaeb3a90?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:10 am
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

http://consumerist.com/5040194/owner-calls-for-chew-toy-recall-after-dogs-injury-results-in-tongue-amputation

Here's a heartbreaking story: A dog owner is asking the public to
demand the recall of a chew toy after it caused an injury to their dog
that required amputation of its tongue.

On Sunday, June 22, 2008 my 10-year old lab mix, Chai, sustained a
severe injury from a product that the company Four Paws Inc, produces.
The toy I'm referencing is the pimple ball with bell. (Item
#20227-001, UPC Code 0 4566320227 9)

While chewing on the toy, a vacuum was created and it effectively
sucked his tongue into the hole in the ball. From speaking with my
vet, this likely occurred because there is not a second hole in the
ball preventing the vacuum effect from happening. I became aware of
this when Chai approached a friend at my home whimpering with the ball
in his mouth. She tried unsuccessfully to remove the ball but the
tongue had swollen and could not be released.

Chai was taken to the Animal Medical Center (an emergency care
facility in New York City) and was treated by Dr. Nicole Spurlock to
have the ball removed. Because the size of the opening on the ball was
so small, all circulation to his tongue was cut off. The doctors had
to sedate him in order to remove it. Once the ball was removed, his
tongue swelled to the point that he could no longer put it in his
mouth. Chai was sent home with care instructions and to be observed
overnight for any changes.

By the following morning Chai's tongue had swollen even more.

He was taken to his regular vet, Dr. Timnah Lee, for treatment. He
was admitted and kept sedated for a period of three days during which
time they were treating his wounds and waiting to determine how much
of his tongue could be saved. On June 26, 2008 Chai had his tongue
amputated.

He was kept in after-care for an additional three days. On Sunday
June 29th I brought Chai home from the vet with a barrage of home care
instructions, to last for an additional 7 days. His next visit was to
have his mouth re-examined and have the feeding tube in his neck
removed.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 12:07 pm
From: "h.tees"

<ultimauw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dba8bce7-b126-43c5-846b-233d8cb51317@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
http://consumerist.com/5040194/owner-calls-for-chew-toy-recall-after-dogs-injury-results-in-tongue-amputation

Here's a heartbreaking story: A dog owner is asking the public to
demand the recall of a chew toy after it caused an injury to their dog
that required amputation of its tongue.

Oh don't be SO stupid. My dog hurt himself when he grabbed a stick that was
thrown
for him. Should we demnd a policy of cutting ll trees down?

Get a life, stop trying to scrounge and wallow in your self pitying
compensation culture
lifestyle.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 4:40 am
From: Relaxin@home.net (Messiah Obama)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:33:13 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Apologize instantly, if not sooner!

(Little slut hussy)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 11:59 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
Messiah Obama <spam@nospam.org> wrote the completely superfluous
proof that its never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cramar Cat Sanctuary 0121 445 1840 stock Petporte Microchip Catflaps £
89.99
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a279739af2526fb0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 5:06 am
From: emmahart5@googlemail.com

Help the rescue do more by purchasing your catflap from here - All
profit goes to charity! Add £8 for postage. Registered charity number
- 519102. Thank you xx

==============================================================================
TOPIC: baby
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5252f006bc674b3a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 8:17 am
From: baby

mdrusthum.blogspot.com
mdrusthum@gmail.com

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 8:46 am
From: timeOday

The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.

Looking at Bankrate,
<http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%

Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
<http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>

Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
still be available on a few weeks' notice?

Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 11:44 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:jcidnVYnruGiQjPVnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
> far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
> money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>
> Looking at Bankrate,
> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>
> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>
> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
> still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>
> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)

start buying things you'll need that won't go bad.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 12:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since
> this is far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow
> my money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.

> Looking at Bankrate,
> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%

> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>

> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will
> not shrink, and still be available on a few weeks' notice?

Some places do offer much better rates than that, like around 8%

That does involve foreign currency exchange risk tho.

> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away
> :)

Probably not with the USD increasing in value currently, depending on
whether you are talking about a vacation inside or outside the country.

If you do have a mortgage, its best to have one that allows you to pay
off the mortgage at a faster rate and draw it down again as you need
to spend on something. That involves a substantial cost to change to
that sort of mortgage tho and you should have gone for one of those
when you got the mortgage in the first place.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 12:30 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:jcidnVYnruGiQjPVnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The APY on my credit union savings account is only 1.51%. Since this is
> far below current inflation, I am actually paying them to borrow my
> money, and my balance is worth less and less each day.
>
> Looking at Bankrate,
> <http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?params=US,416&product=33>
> it appears the best money market account is still only about 3.6%
>
> Meanwhile, inflation is 5.6%
> <http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080822/COLUMNIST/808220325/2107/BUSINESS>
>
> Is there some safe place to put my money where it will not shrink, and
> still be available on a few weeks' notice?
>
> Or should I just blow it on a vacation before inflation eats it away :)

You could use it as seed money to start your own business in one of these
promising growth industries:

debt collector
skip tracer
repo man
foreclosure assistance
suicide counselor
bankruptcy attorney
payday lender (ok,maybe not this one.)

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 1:47 pm
From: Derald

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/inverse-funds-can-keep-bear/story.aspx?guid=%7B16857FE2-DCEB-4D30-8B12-23029BCA13C0%7D

http://www.profunds.com/ProFundsOverview/Content/default.fs

http://www.proshares.com/

Be advised, though, that the two above citations are commercial sites
under the same corporate umbrella. A little W3 searching should uncover
at least a few more objective sources.
--
Derald

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Labor Day: MAYDAY - Why Do You Stay Day?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/78e631926b8480de?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 9:18 am
From: family-living

Labor Day: MAYDAY - Why Do You Stay Day?

Labor Day is a United States federal holiday
observed on the first Monday in September.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day

May Day, similar to the International
Workers' Day, or Labour Day, celebrates
social and economic achievements of
the labour movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day

MAYDAY - MAYDAY is used to signal
a life-threatening emergency.

Russia: Why Do You Stay Another Day
in Georgia? Are you trying to damage oil
and commodity price stabilization in the US?
Yes? The world economic outlook is highly
uncertain, as long as you stay in Georgia:
lost revenue, damage to customer relations,
and inciting employee unrest worldwide.

Business and Economics needs a break.
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/archives.htm#Business
Go back and study the history of the common
man and care more about the Russian people.
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/documentationpublications.htm
The History Of Work Information System, links
tens of thousands of occupational titles from
countries and languages around the world:
picture the sixteenth to the twentieth century.
http://historyofwork.iisg.nl/list_images.php

Russian Standard: Homeland occupied with
the Work Ethic, establishing united families
and making international friends. No War Effort.

Respectfully yours,

Tom Tinney, Sr.
Who's Who in America,
Millennium Edition [54th] through 2004
Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry,
[both editions]
Family Genealogy & History
Internet Education Directory
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to select a reliable used car?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d6e74503ddeed27?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 10:13 am
From: capieleo

I'm in the process of buying a new car and I came across this really
useful site where I got the following from:
http://www.BuyingAdvice.com

A comprehensive researched list of reliable used cars can be useful to
the used car buyer.

We suggest finding a one-owner used car, that has been cared for, it
has its service records (that show they changed oil on schedule and
maintained basic manufacturer recommended service per the owner's
manual) and ideally, owned by someone who is more stable like a senior
citizen, than say a teenager. The reason is that odds are that a more
experienced and stable person is going to maintain service.

The vehicle should have a clear CarFax record. I would look
nationally, because this type of vehicle is going to be hard to find,
and ideally use a service like CarChex or a mechanic to inspect the
vehicle before you buy it -- (to help spot upcoming repairs).

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 10:24 am
From: franbura@gmail.com

Good insight. I'm looking for a new car myself and even considering
trading mine in.
Do you know where I can find a reliable unbiased blog or site on tips
about carloans, dealership tactics, etc.?
thanx.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 10:33 am
From: clams_casino

franbura@gmail.com wrote:

>Do you know where I can find a reliable unbiased blog or site on tips
>about carloans, dealership tactics, etc.?
>
>

I doubt many on this group will have any tips on buying cars in Argentina.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 10:35 am
From: clams_casino

capieleo wrote:

>I'm in the process of buying a new car
>

May want to check on your alter ego. You just just responded to your
own spam.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 10:55 am
From: capieleo

good for you buddy...

this is just simple seo, no spam, as it will not trascend into
something larger like a farm... in any case, an insightful and really
informative source for car buying tips, car loans, calculator and such
is indeed http://www.BuyingAdvice.com and I go back and forth from
here to the US, as I have all my family living there, so next time,
reserve it.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 12:21 pm
From: clams_casino

capieleo wrote:

>good for you buddy...
>
>this is just simple seo, no spam
>

So why did you respond to your own spam?

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b8d61486103dce84?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 11:02 am
From: myaaashoe@gmail.com

www.nikehome.net

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 11:36 am
From: briant97

I have recently become very interested in green fitness and feel it
involves being frugal at the same time. Sure you may have to purchase
a few new products to green your fitness in the end this will pay off
tremendously. For example purchasing a bike for your fitness routine
as well as your commute is a great way to become frugal and fit. I
also consider biking a wonderful green fitness activity that can even
be performed for fun with the family. Get the kids a bike you a bike
and make an evening activity for all. If you would like to understand
more on this topic you can visit my new website I have dedicated to
this topic. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to
contact me at anytime. My website is http://www.greenfitnessworld.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 11:37 am
From: briant97

I also forgot to mention I have started a Google group dedicated to
this topic if you would like to join there feel free to contribute
what you can.

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