Frugal Living: Nov 29, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Idiot interviewing Idiot
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e22fdc1840afaaf6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 9:43 pm
From: "sr"

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/05/23/gore-outrage-on-larry-king-some-inconvenient-facts/

a..
Gore Outrage on Larry King: Some Inconvenient Facts
Posted by Patrick J. Michaels

Here's the transcript of a Q/A by Al Gore last night on Larry King Live

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vice President Al Gore, what issues caused by climate
change globally are likely to affect the United States security in the next
10 years?

KING: Al?

GORE: You know, even a one-meter increase, even a three-foot increase in
sea level would cause tens of millions of climate refugees.

If Greenland were to break up and slip into the sea or West Antarctica, or
half of either and half of both, it would be a 20-feet increase, and that
would lead to more than 450 million climate refugees.

The direct impacts on the U.S. have already begun. Today, 49 percent of
America is in conditions of drought or near drought. And we have had
droughts in the past, but the odds of serious droughts increase when the
average temperatures go up, as they have been going up.

We have fires in California, in Florida, in other states, unprecedented
fire season last year, directly correlated with higher temperatures, which
dry out the soils, dry out the vegetation.

We have a very serious threat of losing enough soil moisture in a hotter
world that agriculture here in the United States would be greatly affected.
Now, the list is too long to give you here, but look, these issues are more
important that Anna Nicole Smith and Paris Hilton, and they are not being
talked about.

FACT 1. There is not one shred of evidence in the refereed scientific
literature speaking of a three-foot increase in sea level in ten years. The
best estimates from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change range from 0.8 to 1.7 INCHES.

FACT 2. There is no trend towards increasing drought area in the United
States that is related to planetary warming. We have good data on drought
area back to 1895. The correlation between the area of the U.S. under
drought and planetary temperature is statistically ZERO.

FACT 3. As the mean planetary temperature has warmed since 1975, U.S. crop
yields have INCREASED significantly, just as they did during the period of
cooling from 1945 through 1975, or during the warming from 1910 to 1945.

It is a true outrage that Gore can get away with this on live television and
not be called out by the inconvenient facts.

You have to hav a functioning brain to be able to question Al Gores facts,
Larry King does not have that ability to ask indept questions, at this late
stage of life, and Larry has the same mindset so he going to go along to get
along, know what I mean, Pat?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Some silly liar : oh yea?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/95f8edd5aecceca0?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 12:23 am
From: "Rod Speed"

sr wrote:

> If I'm a liar,

No if about it.

> I got alot of followers, it now turns out.

There's always plenty of you liars around.

> The scam is over,

Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.

> they have to take their hands out of our pockets.

Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.

> Maybe next time. In the 70s it was the ice age, the same people
> tried the Global Warming, than Climate Chg. what will it be tomorrow?
> P T Barnum, would have loved this crowd of scam artist.

Irrelevant to that stupid lie you posted.

> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7nc73cF3lbbleU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Irrelevant to that stupid lie you posted.
>>
>> sr wrote:
>>> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
>>> news:3b1d3$4b10b5e1$ccb58410$28900@ispn.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:7nb6okF3km8arU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> ==========
>>> GlobalWarmHoax
>>>
>>> WSJ.com - Opinion: Rigging a Climate 'Consensus'
>>> http://bit.ly/8rmNYE -----------
>>>>>> Climategate: five Aussie MPs lead the way by resigning in disgust
>>>>>> over carbon tax
>>>>>
>>>>> No they didnt, you pig ignorant clown.
>>>> http://www.friendsofscience.org/
>>>>
>>>> SIX THINGS EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE:
>>>> 1. The earth is cooling. Click here.
>>>> 2. The Sun causes climate change. Click here.
>>>> 3. Al Gore was wrong about C02. Click here.
>>>> 4. Violent weather isn't getting worse. Click here. Where are
>>>> all those Hurricanes? Hardly a one this year in the USA
>>>> 5. It's been hotter. Click here.
>>>> 6. Climate computer models are proven wrong. Click here.
>>>>
>>>> This debate matters! The science matters.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 1:03 am
From: "sr"

you are responding like you have climbed into the bottle
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7nepbkF3jtfaeU1@mid.individual.net...
> sr wrote:
>
>> If I'm a liar,
>
> No if about it.
>
>> I got alot of followers, it now turns out.
>
> There's always plenty of you liars around.
>
>> The scam is over,
>
> Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.
>
>> they have to take their hands out of our pockets.
>
> Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.
>
>> Maybe next time. In the 70s it was the ice age, the same people
>> tried the Global Warming, than Climate Chg. what will it be tomorrow?
>> P T Barnum, would have loved this crowd of scam artist.
>
> Irrelevant to that stupid lie you posted.
>
>
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:7nc73cF3lbbleU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Irrelevant to that stupid lie you posted.
>>>
>>> sr wrote:
>>>> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:3b1d3$4b10b5e1$ccb58410$28900@ispn.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:7nb6okF3km8arU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> ==========
>>>> GlobalWarmHoax
>>>>
>>>> WSJ.com - Opinion: Rigging a Climate 'Consensus'
>>>> http://bit.ly/8rmNYE -----------
>>>>>>> Climategate: five Aussie MPs lead the way by resigning in disgust
>>>>>>> over carbon tax
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No they didnt, you pig ignorant clown.
>>>>> http://www.friendsofscience.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> SIX THINGS EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE:
>>>>> 1. The earth is cooling. Click here.
>>>>> 2. The Sun causes climate change. Click here.
>>>>> 3. Al Gore was wrong about C02. Click here.
>>>>> 4. Violent weather isn't getting worse. Click here. Where are
>>>>> all those Hurricanes? Hardly a one this year in the USA
>>>>> 5. It's been hotter. Click here.
>>>>> 6. Climate computer models are proven wrong. Click here.
>>>>>
>>>>> This debate matters! The science matters.
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 8:36 am
From: "Rod Speed"

sr wrote

> you are responding like you have climbed into the bottle

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> sr wrote
>>
>>> If I'm a liar,
>>
>> No if about it.
>>
>>> I got alot of followers, it now turns out.
>>
>> There's always plenty of you liars around.
>>
>>> The scam is over,
>>
>> Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.
>>
>>> they have to take their hands out of our pockets.
>>
>> Only in your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasyland.
>>
>>> Maybe next time. In the 70s it was the ice age, the same people
>>> tried the Global Warming, than Climate Chg. what will it be
>>> tomorrow? P T Barnum, would have loved this crowd of scam artist.
>>
>> Irrelevant to that stupid lie you posted.
>>
>>
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7nc73cF3lbbleU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Irrelevant to that stupid lie you posted.
>>>>
>>>> sr wrote:
>>>>> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:3b1d3$4b10b5e1$ccb58410$28900@ispn.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:7nb6okF3km8arU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> GlobalWarmHoax
>>>>>
>>>>> WSJ.com - Opinion: Rigging a Climate 'Consensus'
>>>>> http://bit.ly/8rmNYE -----------
>>>>>>>> Climategate: five Aussie MPs lead the way by resigning in
>>>>>>>> disgust over carbon tax
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No they didnt, you pig ignorant clown.
>>>>>> http://www.friendsofscience.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SIX THINGS EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE:
>>>>>> 1. The earth is cooling. Click here.
>>>>>> 2. The Sun causes climate change. Click here.
>>>>>> 3. Al Gore was wrong about C02. Click here.
>>>>>> 4. Violent weather isn't getting worse. Click here. Where are
>>>>>> all those Hurricanes? Hardly a one this year in the USA
>>>>>> 5. It's been hotter. Click here.
>>>>>> 6. Climate computer models are proven wrong. Click here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This debate matters! The science matters.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: P T Barnum Gore, gets caught in his lies, public records tell the tale
Gore holds OIL STOCKs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df30389fcba1b11e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 1:44 am
From: "sr"

Graciously, Gore tells consumers how to change their lives to curb their
carbon-gobbling ways: Switch to compact fluorescent light bulbs, use a
clothesline, drive a hybrid, use renewable energy, dramatically cut back on
consumption. Better still, responsible global citizens can follow Gore's
example, because, as he readily points out in his speeches, he lives a
"carbon-neutral lifestyle." But if Al Gore is the world's role model for
ecology, the planet is doomed.

For someone who says the sky is falling, he does very little. He says he
recycles and drives a hybrid. And he claims he uses renewable energy credits
to offset the pollution he produces when using a private jet to promote his
film. (In reality, Paramount Classics, the film's distributor, pays this.)

Public records reveal that as Gore lectures Americans on excessive
consumption, he and his wife Tipper live in two properties: a
10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a
4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in
Carthage, Tenn.) For someone rallying the planet to pursue a path of extreme
personal sacrifice, Gore requires little from himself.

Then there is the troubling matter of his energy use. In the Washington,
D.C., area, utility companies offer wind energy as an alternative to
traditional energy. In Nashville, similar programs exist. Utility customers
must simply pay a few extra pennies per kilowatt hour, and they can continue
living their carbon-neutral lifestyles knowing that they are supporting wind
energy. Plenty of businesses and institutions have signed up. Even the Bush
administration is using green energy for some federal office buildings, as
are thousands of area residents.

But according to public records, there is no evidence that Gore has signed
up to use green energy in either of his large residences. When contacted
Wednesday, Gore's office confirmed as much but said the Gores were looking
into making the switch at both homes. Talk about inconvenient truths.

Gore is not alone. Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean has
said, "Global warming is happening, and it threatens our very existence."
The DNC website applauds the fact that Gore has "tried to move people to
act." Yet, astoundingly, Gore's persuasive powers have failed to convince
his own party: The DNC has not signed up to pay an additional two pennies a
kilowatt hour to go green. For that matter, neither has the Republican
National Committee.

Maybe our very existence isn't threatened.

Gore has held these apocalyptic views about the environment for some time.
So why, then, didn't Gore dump his family's large stock holdings in
Occidental (Oxy) Petroleum? As executor of his family's trust, over the
years Gore has controlled hundreds of thousands of dollars in Oxy stock. Oxy
has been mired in controversy over oil drilling in ecologically sensitive
areas.

Living carbon-neutral apparently doesn't mean living oil-stock free. Nor
does it necessarily mean giving up a mining royalty either.

Humanity might be "sitting on a ticking time bomb," but Gore's home in
Carthage is sitting on a zinc mine. Gore receives $20,000 a year in
royalties from Pasminco Zinc, which operates a zinc concession on his
property. Tennessee has cited the company for adding large quantities of
barium, iron and zinc to the nearby Caney Fork River.

The issue here is not simply Gore's hypocrisy; it's a question of
credibility. If he genuinely believes the apocalyptic vision he has put
forth and calls for radical changes in the way other people live, why hasn't
he made any radical change in his life? Giving up the zinc mine or one of
his homes is not asking much, given that he wants the rest of us to
radically change our lives.

Peter Schweizer is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution and author of
Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy.

Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-09-gore-green_x.htm

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TOPIC: replacing a muffler on 1994 Dodge Caravan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/65e53be756dab1c9?hl=en
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== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 3:48 am
From: Ohioguy

>what kind of neighbor works all week doing brakes and mufflers and
>would be delighted to come home and work on the weekend too

No, you don't understand - my neighbor lost his job a while back, and
right now all he has is unemployment. He says he may lose his house as
well. I figured that I would rather help out my neighbor with some $$,
instead of the local chain, even if I don't actually save any money
myself. Of course, I don't want to actually spend MORE going this
route, but I don't mind spending about the same, or a little less.

When you pay a chain store to do the work, the money disappears to
taxes, franchise fees, etc. If I pay my neighbor, he gets some money
for food, gas, etc.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 4:56 am
From: clams_casino

Ohioguy wrote:

>
>
> When you pay a chain store to do the work, the money disappears to
> taxes, franchise fees, etc. If I pay my neighbor, he gets some money
> for food, gas, etc.

And cheats on taxes. How honest. How convenient.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 5:31 am
From: Marsha

clams_casino wrote:
> Ohioguy wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> When you pay a chain store to do the work, the money disappears to
>> taxes, franchise fees, etc. If I pay my neighbor, he gets some money
>> for food, gas, etc.
>
>
> And cheats on taxes. How honest. How convenient.

There will be a lot more people working under the table, thanks to
excessive taxation to support all the "social programs" for those who
can, but won't, work. Not saying it's right, just predicting.

Marsha

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 7:34 am
From: Al

On Nov 29, 6:48 am, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> >what kind of neighbor works all week doing brakes and mufflers and
> >would be delighted to come home and work on the weekend too
>
> No, you don't understand - my neighbor lost his job a while back, and
> right now all he has is unemployment. He says he may lose his house as
> well. I figured that I would rather help out my neighbor with some $$,
> instead of the local chain, even if I don't actually save any money
> myself. Of course, I don't want to actually spend MORE going this
> route, but I don't mind spending about the same, or a little less.
>
> When you pay a chain store to do the work, the money disappears to
> taxes, franchise fees, etc. If I pay my neighbor, he gets some money
> for food, gas, etc.

Well, I understand your position more now, but that last paragraph is
just silly.
When you pay the neighbor under the table he avoids paying legal taxes
and helps put the poor guy working at the retail store out of a job
eventually. Maybe the whole store closes if people do all their own
work. And let's face the truth, you are trying to save a penny here,
not perform any humanitarian act of feeding the neighbor nor training
the kids on how to get dirty.
PS. My DIY tip of the day. If you have trouble getting two pipes
apart, you can bypass that step by simply cutting behind the
connection and using an adapter extension to put it back together. To
do this you must know the exact size of the pipe OD and ID on your
system. Do not cut anything from the converter because those adapters
are expensive and hard to find.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 7:42 am
From: Al

On Nov 29, 7:56 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Ohioguy wrote:
>
> > When you pay a chain store to do the work, the money disappears to
> > taxes, franchise fees, etc. If I pay my neighbor, he gets some money
> > for food, gas, etc.
>
> And cheats on taxes. How honest. How convenient.

With the tough economy, I thought repair shops were doing well keeping
the old iron running. People can defer muffler work, but brakes are
more pressing. Somehow this ASE certified brake and exhaust technician
is unemployed. Hey, lots of engineers are unemployed too. I'm just
saying a shop usually does not let their most productive employees go.
He should be able to handle a muffler though with that pizza dangling
in front of him.
Next post: Does anyone know a dirt cheap home recipe for pizza?

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 8:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Al wrote:
> On Nov 29, 6:48 am, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>>> what kind of neighbor works all week doing brakes and mufflers and
>>> would be delighted to come home and work on the weekend too
>>
>> No, you don't understand - my neighbor lost his job a while back, and
>> right now all he has is unemployment. He says he may lose his house
>> as well. I figured that I would rather help out my neighbor with
>> some $$, instead of the local chain, even if I don't actually save
>> any money myself. Of course, I don't want to actually spend MORE
>> going this route, but I don't mind spending about the same, or a
>> little less.
>>
>> When you pay a chain store to do the work, the money disappears to
>> taxes, franchise fees, etc. If I pay my neighbor, he gets some money
>> for food, gas, etc.

> Well, I understand your position more now,

And do have quite a bit of egg on your face too.

> but that last paragraph is just silly.

Nope.

> When you pay the neighbor under the table he avoids paying legal taxes

You dont know that the neighbour is avoiding paying legal taxes.

He's unlikely to be paying much in the way of income taxes if he's unemployed.

> and helps put the poor guy working at the retail store out of a job eventually.

Even sillier. There is never enough of that sort of thing to get the retail employees fired.

> Maybe the whole store closes if people do all their own work.

Or maybe there will never be enough doing that.

> And let's face the truth, you are trying to save a penny here,
> not perform any humanitarian act of feeding the neighbor nor
> training the kids on how to get dirty.

Thats nothing like the truth. He's doing both. And when he
can get the assistence of someone who knows what its
about, it is the best way to work out how to do it yourself.

> PS. My DIY tip of the day. If you have trouble getting two pipes
> apart, you can bypass that step by simply cutting behind the
> connection and using an adapter extension to put it back together.
> To do this you must know the exact size of the pipe OD and ID
> on your system. Do not cut anything from the converter because
> those adapters are expensive and hard to find.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 9:04 am
From: Ohioguy

>Somehow this ASE certified brake and exhaust technician is unemployed

I'm not sure how I gave the impression that he used to be a brake and
exhaust technician - he actually worked as a machinist in a small tool
company. The tool company closed, and now he is looking for work. Many
of these jobs have disappeared around our area. If it had been 5 to 10
years ago, he could have instantly gotten a similar job at another shop,
with his experience.

The car experience he has just comes from doing brake work & under
car type repairs on the weekends over the past 10 years. Also, he has
spent a lot of time fixing and updating his own cars. At this point, he
is selling off a lot of his things to try to get by.

He has done brake work and other things for us in the past. I
figured I could learn a little bit, my son would also like to
participate, and yes, maybe I'll save a few bucks that I can stick in my
"PC Upgrade jar". Knowing that I'm helping my neighbor out makes me
feel even better about it. Plus, I always like an excuse to order pizza.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Discount Wholesale brand jeans wholesale free shipping : Affliction,
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2aab21d36694d9bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 5:41 am
From: NICEYOYO

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: I'm pissed off
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f12a32460293ccab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 6:32 am
From: Dan Birchall

bashley101@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
> Insurance isn't the answer it's cracked up to be -- it certainly doesn't
> guarantee competence.

Does it guarantee anything? I'm having to wait a month and a half for a
routine eye exam. Good thing I live in America and have corporate health
insurance, instead of whatever socialist stuff they get in Canada and the
UK, huh? ;)

--
"There's no democracy without people in the streets."
- Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 7:00 am
From: clams_casino

Dan Birchall wrote:

>bashley101@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
>
>
>> Insurance isn't the answer it's cracked up to be -- it certainly doesn't
>> guarantee competence.
>>
>>
>
>Does it guarantee anything? I'm having to wait a month and a half for a
>routine eye exam. Good thing I live in America and have corporate health
>insurance, instead of whatever socialist stuff they get in Canada and the
>UK, huh? ;)
>
>
>

Having an insurance company negotiate costs with providers provides a
significant savings for their clients.

Paying cash (walking in the door) will most always be significantly more
costly than what the provider will charge the insurance company (and
what their clients eventually end up paying).

Bottom line is not so much the coverage, but the reduced cost of
coverage via their negotiations.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Telemarketing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d736080423c5cf8a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 6:39 am
From: Dan Birchall

invalid@invalid.com (KenK) wrote:
> I've read there is a tone you can add to the beginning of your
> answering machine message that indicates an unavailable
> connection to the telemarketing dialing computers. How does
> one get this tone and add it to the message? Anyone know?

This is called a "Special Information Tone," I think specifically
it's the "Intercept" tone. Wikipedia has an audio sample:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_information_tones

--
"There's no democracy without people in the streets."
- Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Promote the general welfare" means what it says
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3f1993b181e2faf4?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 7:37 am
From: Day Brown

JonquilJan wrote:
> Learn something new every day
> As long as you are learning, you are living
> When you stop learning, you start dying
Therefore, as Nietzsche said- a concept of god that already knows
everything, is dead.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 12:25 pm
From: Patriot Games

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:33:14 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>Patriot Games wrote:
>>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:19:39 -0500, clams_casino
>><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>Patriot Games wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:15:30 -0500, clams_casino
>>>><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>>Liars are exposed:
>>>>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:29:48 -0500, clams_casino
>>>><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>>>Patriot Games wrote:
>>>>>No, That's shear ignorance ON YOUR PART. The top 10% (>108k/yr) of the
>>>>>population pay about 50% of all Federal income taxes, based on having
>>>>>some 60% of all income.
>>>Amusing.
>>>Since you are obviously too challenged to do a simple search (as opposed
>>>to listening to Rush, Beck, etc), I'll try to keep this very simple:
>>>http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22287.html
>>>"While the media spotlight shines on federal income taxes each April,
>>>many Americans may be surprised to learn that federal income taxes make
>>>up only 26 percent of the nation's total tax bill. The remaining 74
>>>percent—nearly three-fourths of the U.S. economy's total tax burden—is
>>>comprised of the other federal, state and local taxes paid by American
>>>households every year."
>>YOU SAID: [The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes...] "and essentially
>>all the payroll tax with a significantly higher share of
>>property, sales & excise taxes."
>>Your CITE SHOWS: The highest income group paid 23-cents per tax dollar
>>to Federal Payroll taxes and the lowest income group paid 21-cents per
>>tax dollar to Federal Payroll taxes.
>>YOU LIED.
>>YOU SAID: [The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes...] "and essentially
>>all the payroll tax with a significantly higher share of
>>property, sales & excise taxes."
>>Your CITE SHOWS: The Total State and Local Taxes Averaged is $9,400
>>per taxpayer, with the LOWEST FOUR income groups paying $28,666
>>COMBINED and the SINGLE highest income groupo paying $24,421.
>>YOU LIED.
>I didn't "Lie".

Yes, you did. PROVEN ABOVE.

>I have supplied true, documented facts with references.

Which PROVE YOU LIED.

>You claimed the top 5% pay 99% of all federal income taxes. That's
>obviously totally wrong.

Of course its wrong. AS PREVIOUSLY STATED I did that to TRAP YOU INTO
LYING.

And it worked.... Hahahahahahahha!!

>You stated the bottom 50% earners only pay 3% of the total taxes. That's
>obviously totally wrong.

I CITED:

The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000.
The richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000.
The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071217112125AAvUc6r

YOU SAID "total taxes."

I CITED "income taxes."

Who lied?

YOU LIED.

I CITED:

For Tax Year 2006
(AGI, Adjusted Gross Income)
Top 1% AGI - 39.89% of all taxes.
Top 5% AGI - 60.14% of all taxes.
Top 10% AGI - 70.79% of all taxes.
Top 25% AGI - 86.27% of all taxes.
Top 50% AGI - 97.01% of all taxes.
Bottom 50% AGI - 2.99% of all taxes.
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

YOU SAID "total taxes."

I CITED "AGI, Adjusted Gross Income."

Who lied?

YOU LIED.

>Hint - What percentage of Warren Buffet's income did he pay in payroll
>taxes? What percentage earnings of someone making $10k/yr is payroll tax?
>Another hint - one is >0.01%, the other is about 6.5%.

Obviously you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT:

Payroll Tax: Your contribution to Social Security and Medicare: 15.3%
of your salary, up to a limit, half of which is paid by your employer.
A huge number of people pay far more in payroll taxes than they do in
income taxes. On the other hand, the payroll tax isn't a true "tax" in
the sense that it isn't supposed to be a source of revenue for the
government - it's supposed to be a contribution to an account that
you'll be entitled to withdraw benefits from at a later date. For that
reason payroll taxes generally aren't included in discussions about
tax cuts: the only way you can get a cut in your contributions is to
(a) accept a corresponding cut in benefits, or (b) have your benefits
subsidized by somebody else, or (c) reform the entire system.
http://www.moneychimp.com/glossary/payroll_tax.htm

Here is a more detailed definition:
http://www.answers.com/topic/payroll-tax

>Based on YOUR logic, obviously the higher must be paying most the taxes
>in this country.

Your feeble attempt to change the subject has FAILED.

>One last hint - One can not determine the tax burden by looking at just
>one type of tax.

Of course you can...

>In conclusion, let me know when you've passed that 4th-grade remedial
>math class. Otherwise, no more discussion - Bye Bye.

Having SUCCESSFULLY CAUGHT AND EXPOSED YOU AS A LIAR I am entirely
happy to be DONE WITH YOU.

Learn to love your lies.

They will follow you forever.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 1:03 pm
From: Patriot Games

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:47:37 -0600, Day Brown <dayhbrown@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Patriot Games wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:55:19 -0600, Day Brown <dayhbrown@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Patriot Games wrote:
>>>> The richest 1% paid 39% of the income taxes, up from 37% in 2000.
>>>> The richest 5% paid 60% of the income taxes, up from 56% in 2000.
>>>> 39%+60%=99%
>>> Take accounting.
>> See my post to 'Rod Speed'....
>I never saw anything Rod had to say worth my time to read. so I dont.

I didn't say see HIS post, I said see MY post to him...

>>> Now, if the rich had taken their tax reduction and invested it in
>>> creating jobs in the USA, the unemployment rate would be lower,
>> Its their money, its not your money, its their business what they do
>> with it, its NOT your business what they do with it.
>Machiavelli...

Let's FIRST address WHY you MISSED Step 1...

What IS Step 1?

Step 1 is SPENDING.

Gov'ts don't TAKE people's money until they FIRST have something to
SPEND it on (other than themselves).

WHY did YOU skip Step 1?

Only YOU can answer that....

>However, while revenge is sweet, it is best served cold, and even at
>that, is not nutritious. The resulting mess is worse for everyone.

Interesting that YOU would SKIP Step 1 AND immediately mention
"revenge."

Is YOUR knee-jerk instant impulse to STEAL from those MORE successful
than YOU a matter of "revenge?"

>>> But they invested in making foreign jobs instead
>>> that put even more Americans on the welfare dole.
>> Wrong. So-Called rich people made no such investments. Corporations
>> did that.
>At the direction of aristocratic ownership. Hello?

There is no such thing as "aristocratic ownership." ALL of our larger
corporations are stockholder-owned and BoD-directed.

>>> But if we raise taxes on the rich, the government would be able to lower
>>> the deficit,
>> Wrong. If you raise taxes on the rich they will take their money and
>> leave.
>To some extent certainly. But they cant move the manufacturing plants
>so easily.

Irrelevant. There is almost nothing left to move. THEY ARE ALREADY
GONE. Of the manufacturing plants that are still here MOST of the
US-owned plants are IDLE and the others are NOT US-owned.

>One of the reactions has been the takeover of investments by
>the employees.

Sorry, that has NEVER happenned. Employees have formed business
entities that have purchased corporations from their owners. So far
as I know that has NEVER happenned as a hostile takeover but has
ALWAYS happenned when the corporation was in trouble and looking to
sell anyway.

In America, in no way, shape, or form has that EVER been a "takeover
of investments by the employees" except as a NORMAL PURCHASE.

>The cost of
>labor has gone down and the productivity up to the point now where its
>the cost of management that affects profits more.

Not in THIS country... But you could PROVE your claim by CITING it...

Our Union labor costs are still extremely high compared to China
(Mexico, Eastern Europe, etc.)

You're FAILING to understand basic human greed, basic human cowardice
and legal liability. Basic human greed caused our auto-execs to NOT
do what was right for their companies or America. Basic human
cowardice caused our auto-execs to NOT carefully and repeatedly tell
America where she was heading. And then you have legal liability.

What our auto-execs (just using them as an example) SHOULD have done
is SHUT DOWN union-strangled auto plants, started NEW sites WITHOUT
Union labor. Except for one little problem - THAT WAS (and still is)
ILLEGAL. So they shifted production to cheap foreign labor which was
(and still is) LEGAL. Do you think they DID NOT know the ultimate
result of those decisions? OF COURSE THEY KNEW. They were motivated
by personal greed to NOT alert America to what was coming to protect
their own jobs, they were also driven by their own cowardice, and EVEN
IF they wanted to do the right thing THEY WERE PROHIBITED BY LAW from
doing the right thing.

The situation HAS NOT CHANGED except that NOW we are in the End Stage
of this massive fiasco.

>> Wrong. If you raise taxes on anybody you have NO GUARANTEE the gov't
>> will pay down our debt.
>Nobody has any guarantee of anything, but Machiavelli has been right so
>often we'd do well to consider what he has to say. Which you dont.

I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy either.

>> IN FACT - the Gov't is currently 100% preoccupied with raising taxes
>> to give Criminal Beaners free citizenship and free Buckwheatcare.
>The government is not 100% anything. Ergo, you are delusional.

So NOW let's RETURN to your personal need for "revenge."

In ANY NORMAL household budget when INCOME begins to fall short of
EXPENSES the FIRST thing NORMAL people do is try to reduce EXPENSES
BEFORE they plan how to STEAL FROM SOMEBODY ELSE.

Yet YOUR FIRST reaction was to IMMEDIATELY want to STEAL FROM SOMEBODY
ELSE.

Can you explain your personal need for "revenge" against people who
have been MORE successful in life than you?

Can you explain how people who have been MORE successful in life than
you OWE YOU ANYTHING?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ KITCHEN DESIGN ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/969e7218f28bcfdf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 7:46 am
From: Ruthie May

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~~~***~~~
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click here to enter:

>>> http://web-paradise.cn/page/kitchen-design <<<

==================================================
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nike Air Max, max 90, max 2009, max LTD, Nike Shox, Air force one Cheap
wholesale free shipping paypal payment (www.dotradenow.com.cn)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6c2bc7d04f752c28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 8:13 am
From: tradeyoyo

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: FREE MARKETS... err... there area a few issues
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ee08e89b80bab1b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 8:41 am
From: phil scott

Free markets WORK...but only within nations, and only with some
caveats, such as no monopolies allowed, and wages kept adequate for
that cultures viability...so people can buy what they produce, and
keep the cycle going,

free markets do not work across national borders without those
controls.... free markets generate ruin for all concerned in that
case.

it seems that in the USA we appreciate free markets, with those
controls, and it has been good... then we tried to internationalize
free market philosophy beyond these ranges, **with no controls**....
and it is fast becoming a world wide disaster, as even the slaver
nations end up loosing ... no wages, no purchasing power, no economy
for anyone,

Phil scott ... with a tip of the hat and many thanks to 'video'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Review: "How To Live Well Without Owning a Car - Save Money, Breathe
Easier, and Get More Mileage Out of Life" by Chris Balish
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dff28f482d02ae5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 9:49 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<ca6ca7c70910280657r6d859fa0ic21607abbbf4787b@mail.gmail.com>,
"Dave U. Random" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

> (BikePortland.org) - I have been hearing all about how Chris Balish¹s
> book, "How to Live Well Without Owning a Car" (Amazon.com:
> http://xrl.us/WithoutCar ), is the foremost manual on how to live
> car-free no matter where you live. I am here to tell you that it is
> true..
>
> Balish starts by laying out exactly how much car ownership is costing
> you, and our society as a whole. I found that angle, as opposed to the
> ³Save the Earth² approach, to be oddly refreshing. Let¹s be honest,
> most people care a hell of a lot more about their bank account than
> their carbon footprint. I sold my car, so I was already rid of that
> cost, but was still stunned by how much a car truly costs..
>
> Continued: http://xrl.us/WithoutCarReview

One of the steps to self actualization is not having to own a car and
not needing to depend on others for transportation, but everyone's
situation is different. I was carless for two years when I lived and
worked in Center City, Philadelphia. That worked out fine, but now I
live in the Philadelphia suburbs where public transportation is lacking
and many of the areas here are not pedestrian friendly.

Where I live now, I tried going without a car for four months as an
experiment. It was a major pain in the neck. I had to get up every day
an extra hour early to get to work. To visit friends who don't live near
convenient public transportation, I either had to rent a car or spend
hours trying to get to them via public transportation, walking, biking,
and/or having them pick me up.

I also have four god children who live with their parents in a tiny
rural community near New Hope, PA. There is no public transportation
near them. There is no way their parents could manage without a car. The
nearest public road to their house is one mile unless we cut through the
woods and jump over a creek behind their house. The closest regional
rail line to them is about 30 minutes away and there is no bus route to
get to it from where they live. It takes me ninety minutes to drive to
their house. My god kids are ages 6 to 15 so there's no way for me to
see them unless I drive. I visit them once or twice a month. In fact, I
was there yesterday and I took the oldest girl out shopping for school
clothes. Going to the mall was a 60 minute drive. I racked up nearly 150
miles yesterday visiting the kids and shopping.

My 2008 Prius costs me roughly $550 a month, which includes my car
payment, insurance, gas, parking at work, tolls, and maintenance (e.g.,
oil changes, tires, etc.). That monthly cost will drop by at least half
when my car is paid off in two years. The cost for me to rent a car for
one weekend would easily cost me half that amount in my area (South
Jersey). I would still have to pay for gas and tolls too, plus there's
the value of my time to pick up the rental car and drop it off again.

Factoring in the cost of my time, an extra ten hours in commuting
to/from work a week and the cost of my driving expenses vs. one of the
most expensive public transportation systems in the United States
(SEPTA), driving is the cheapest transportation option for me in most
situations. For example, if I took public transportation to visit my
parents, it would easily take me two hours each way. Driving to visit my
parents takes me 20 minutes. If I value my time at a modest $50 per
hour, that's $200 in time to visit my parents via public transportation
ONCE a week verses $16 worth of my time to drive. Adding in the cost to
drive my car to my parents doesn't change that cost differential
significantly.

Even today, I am supposed to visit some friends for dinner and help them
decorate their house in Christmas lights. I can't leave early for this
visit because I have a friend who lives two hours north of me who is on
his way to visit me for lunch on his way to Virginia for a business
meeting tomorrow. There is no way I can get to my other friend's house
before dark today if I used public transportation, especially
considering that the friend who is on his way to meet me for lunch just
called and told me he is running late.

On the other hand, when I go into Center City Philadelphia to see a
movie, visit a museum exhibit, have dinner, etc., I usually take public
transportation because the cost of parking there is not worth the
benefits of driving there.

My lifestyle at this point in time requires that I drive. As a result, I
doubt I will go carless any time soon, although I sure would like to. I
am looking at the option of buying a house near where I work, but
unfortunately, every house I have seen thus far is way outside my price
range.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FLY FISHING ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/42c752f550b52c6a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 10:01 am
From: Briana Stone

.
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: No gift giving this Christmas...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7570f95930f62ce6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 29 2009 12:24 pm
From: Les Cargill

Rick Merrill wrote:
> h wrote:
>> "frater mus" <fratermus@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:hem49n$res$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Gregory wrote:
>>>
>>>> people? "Science" is just a different religion that also requires
>>>> believing in something that you cannot see.
>>> Or, to put it a different and reality-based way, believing in
>>> something you can test, predict, and replicate.
>>>
>>
>> Yup. Reality rules.
>>
>
> Did you ever read Castaneda's "A Separate Reality"?

http://reason.com/blog/2007/04/20/carlos-castaneda-a-yaqui-way-o

--
Les Cargill

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Sunday, November 29, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 14 topics - digest