Frugal Living: Jan 1, 2011

Saturday, January 1, 2011

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 14 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: KARO HOT MASTI PHOTOS&VIDEOS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/991dfe681a033cd0?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 30 2010 9:36 pm
From: RAMYA

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Flu Vaccine Scam Rears Its Ugly Head Again in 2010
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/502e44f88750705e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 5:39 am
From: Rebel1

Dec 31, 2020. This was originally posted on 8/31/2010 in various
newsgroups. It's been removed, because it exposes the lies in the flu
program.
____________________________________________________________

Original 8/31/2010 post:

The Flu Vaccine Scam Rears Its Ugly Head Again in 2010

This article is an update of a series of articles with similar titles
first posted Sept 25, 2008, and most recently on May 2, 2009. It has
been reformatted using fixed-width type so the numbers in the columns
properly align and it has been updated with newly released data for
2007. To prevent the table from getting too wide for a 1024x768 display,
the 2002 data has been deleted. It was originally posted at the
sci.med.nutrition, alt.health, alt.social-security-disability,
alt.politics.usa.congress, and misc.consumers.frugal-living newsgroups
on August 31, 2010, 2:55 pm ET, by Rebel1.

(As an aside, Mike Adams, also known as the Health Ranger, makes a good
case that nobody dies in the U.S. from flu because none of the deaths
are confirmed by lab data; fascinating perspective.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026169.html)

************************************************************************

Once again the government and its press lackeys are circulating lies
about the alleged number of annual U.S. flu deaths in an attempt to
scare the population into getting flu shots of questionable value.
Nobody in Congress challenges the number, because Big Pharma makes
substantial �contributions� to their reelection campaigns. FDA
decision-makers don�t make waves because their silence is often rewarded
with lucrative jobs at Big Pharma companies after leaving government.
Advertising-supported popular magazines and even medical journals dare
not expose the truth; just count the number of advertising pages for
drugs and figure it out yourself. Major news services (AP, Reuters,
etc.) don�t expose the fraud either; perhaps it�s the fear of being
denied access to key people in the government, or perhaps their writers
are too lazy to do fact-checking.

36,000 DEATHS PER YEAR
That�s the bogus number typically circulated. It�s sometimes given as
deaths from pneumonia and flu combined. Other times it�s given as deaths
from flu alone. (They can�t even tell a consistent lie.) In either case,
the number is wrong. The true number of flu deaths and pneumonia deaths
in all age groups, right from the government�s Centers for Disease
Control reports, are as follows:

Deaths from 2003(1) 2004(2) 2005(3) 2006(4) 2007(5)
Pneumonia & flu 65,163 59,644 63,001 56,326 52,717
Pneumonia alone 63,371 58,564 61,189 55,477 52,306
Flu alone 1,792 1,100 1,812 849 411
All causes 2,448,288 2,397,615 2,448,017 2,426,264 2,423,712

That�s right, flu deaths ranged from 1,792 in 2003 to 411 in 2007. The
five-year average is 1,192 per year!

SO WHO SHOULD GET THE FLU VACCINE?
According to this site, http://www.medicinenet.com/influenza/page3.htm,
�groups at increased risk of influenza complications include people aged
65 years or older.�� (With all their drug ads, can they be impartial?)
Let�s see just how high that risk is. Here are the numbers for people
aged 65 and older+ in year 2007(5):

Age Age Age Total
Deaths from: 65-74 75-84 85&Up 65&Up
Pneumonia and flu 5,547 14,859 25,535 45,941
Pneumonia alone 5,509 14,780 25,396 45,685
Flu Alone 38 79 139 256
Total Deaths, all causes 389,238 652,682 713,646 1,755,566
Flu Deaths, % of Total 0.010 0.012 0.019 0.015
Deaths

So IF vaccine makers correctly GUESSED at the type of virus strains that
would be a risk 9 months after they started making the vaccine, AND IF
the vaccine were 100 percent effective, only 256 deaths (0.015%) would
be delayed out of 1,755,566 from all causes.

Some might credit the drop of flu deaths in the 65 and above group (256
in 2007 vs. 689 in 2006) to increased vaccination coverage. But the CDC
says that coverage of 68.0% in this age group was similar to previous
seasons.(6)

But they want to vaccinate all 35,000,000 people 65 and older(7). At $20
per vaccine, that�s $700,000,000 transferred from the bank accounts of
seniors and their insurers to the medical mafia (everyone from the local
doctors up the distribution chain to the manufacturer) hoping to delay a
mere 256 deaths in an already vulnerable group. That�s $2,734,375 for
each delayed death. Yes, there will be some savings due to reduced
hospitalizations. Nevertheless, this kind of insanity is what�s
bankrupting the system.

HOW EFFECTIVE IS THE VACCINE?
An article in the October 4, 2007, issue of the New England Journal of
Medicine addressed this question.(8) Data were pooled from 18 cohorts of
community-dwelling elderly members of one U.S. health maintenance
organization (HMO) for 1990�1991 through 1999�2000 and of two other HMOs
for 1996�1997 through 1999�2000. The study was not designed to evaluate
levels of vaccine effectiveness among the frailest elderly, such as
those living in nursing homes, and is somewhat biased because all
members were part of an HMO. The data covered 10 flu seasons, which
included eight seasons where the vaccine matched the circulating virus.

Results - Some quotes from the study:

�During the 10 influenza seasons, there were 4599 hospitalizations for
pneumonia or influenza and 8796 deaths. The observed hospitalization
rates for unvaccinated and for vaccinated participants were, on average,
0.7% and 0.6% per season, respectively, with corresponding death rates
of 1.6% and 1.0% per season.�

�Influenza vaccination was associated on average with substantial
reductions in hospitalizations for pneumonia and for influenza (vaccine
effectiveness, 27%) and in death (vaccine effectiveness, 48%). Estimates
varied from season to season and across the 18 cohorts). In the two
seasons with a poor match between the vaccine and the virus strain,
vaccine effectiveness was lower for reducing death (in seasons with a
poor match, vaccine effectiveness was 37%; in seasons with a good match,
vaccine effectiveness was 52%) but not for reducing hospitalization.�

While these results may appear impressive, the study warns:

�How these results might relate to population-level trends is unclear.
For example, influenza-attributable excess mortality rates in the United
States have not declined to the degree that might be expected in light
of increasing vaccination rates during the 1980s and the early 1990s.
However, nation-level data do not include the risk profile or
vaccination status of those who have died. Critical information is
therefore lacking, making it difficult to estimate what the expected
excess mortality rates would be if vaccination rates were 0%, what
benefits have already been realized given current patterns of vaccine
use, and what additional benefits might be realized with more effective
vaccine delivery.�

Draw your own conclusions as to the value of a flu vaccine, considering
the cost of a nationwide program compared to the few who will benefit.

WHAT ABOUT PNEUMONIA?
True, complications from the flu VIRUS can lead to pneumonia. About 50
percent of the pneumonia cases are caused by viruses, which produce less
severe pneumonia(9). The rest are mainly caused by bacteria. Get a
pneumonia vaccination.

HOW TO PREVENT THE FLU
The flu season coincides with shorter days, which means less sunlight
and less vitamin D generated by our bodies from direct (not through
glass or sunscreen) sun exposure on our skin. Here�s the background:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/10/03/more-evidence-vitamin-d-beats-the-flu.aspx

(If the above link doesn't take you directly to the article, type the
link manually in the address box or enter in the search box " More
Evidence Vitamin D Beats the Flu" and click on the first result.)

1) Take vitamin D3 supplements or cod liver oil, at daily doses of
1000-2000 IU. But read this before starting:
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/vitamin_d_deficiency.htm
2) Frequently wash hands after being in public
3) Get plenty of sleep
4) Reduce stress
5) Cut sugar consumption, which depresses the immune system.

MORE INFO
http://tampa.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A3696

**********************************************************
REFERENCES:
(1) Deaths: Final Data for 2003, National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol.
54, #13, Apr 19, 2006, Table 10, page 32
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_13.pdf
(2) Deaths: Final Data for 2004, National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol.
55, #19, Oct 10, 2007, pages 30, 32 and 36
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_19.pdf
(3) Deaths: Final Data for 2005, National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol.
56, #10, April 24, 2008, page 33, Table 10
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf
(4) Deaths: Final Data for 2006, National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol.
57, #14, April 2009, Table 10
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf.
(5) Deaths: Final Data for 2007, National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol.
58, #19, May 2010, Table 10
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr58/nvsr58_19.pdf.
(6) Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, April 30, 2010
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5916a1.htm
(7) Information Please Almanac
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0905042.html
(8) Effectiveness of Influenza Vaccine in the Community-Dwelling Elderly.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/14/1373
(9) Pneumonia Fact Sheet, American Lung Association
http://www.lungusa.org/lung-disease/influenza/in-depth-resources/pneumonia-fact-sheet.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is People Afraid of the Truth?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b04879810a6cd83e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 6:23 am
From: "VFW,"

In article
<acb965ad-b0a9-43e5-b684-1934f9bff2c8@k11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
"His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep jungle"
<comandante.banana@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Dec 23, 2:38 pm, Mike Jones <l...@dasteem.invalid> wrote:
> > Responding to His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep
> > jungle:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 23, 11:20 am, Mike Jones <l...@dasteem.invalid> wrote:
> > >> Responding to His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep
> > >> jungle:
> >
> > >> > On Dec 23, 9:07 am, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> On Dec 22, 11:12 am, "davenort...@gmail.com" <davenort...@gmail.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> >
> > >> >> > Currently, in many quarters, Christianity is updating its
> > >> >> > theology
> > >> >> > in light of New and Old Testament studies as well as modern
> > >> >> > science.
> >
> > >> >> > In this regard, there is a tendency to regard much of
> > >> >> > scripture as
> > >> >> > symbolic or metaphorical. Of coarse, the Devil is now correctly
> > >> >> > downgraded from a reality to a representation of the human
> > >> >> > experience of evil in life. Including suffering, temptation etc.
> >
> > >> >> > To my mind, certain types of evil such as world wars are so
> > >> >> > horrendous
> > >> >> > that the human mind is pushed beyond factual description to
> > >> >> > symbolic and poetic language, for example myth. What else can you
> > >> >> > do when you affirm God is all powerful and all good and the evil
> > >> >> > encountered seems to strongly counter that faith. So, though
> > >> >> > I've long ago abandoned belief in the Devil, I can readily
> > >> >> > understand why our forbears believed in a real Devil roaming the
> > >> >> > world to tempt and to destroy. Something the uneducated
> > >> >> > non-scientific masses of the middle and ancient ages could
> > >> >> > believe. And, at the same time, the heat was taken off the
> > >> >> > Church and theologians because the Devil, not God, "did it."
> >
> > >> >> So, in your mind, it makes perfect sense that ancient uneducated
> > >> >> people anthropomorphized pain and suffering, but joy and peace come
> > >> >> from a real being, no anthropomorphism here... Why the dichotomy?
> >
> > >> >> Come on, you are so close!
> > >> >> One down, one to go!
> >
> > >> > I don't think he'll take the jump because many people are afraid of
> > >> > the truth. Many people actually hide from it if it threatens their
> > >> > lifestyle or requires some major mental overhaul. The most they dare
> > >> > is a tuneup. ;)
> >
> > >> > Same point is demonstrated with Assange. Many people are simply
> > >> > afraid of the truth for the same reasons. "What will happen if I must
> > >> > see the ugly beast?" Climate Change is a similar issue...
> >
> > >> > This hiding from the truth though is what is threatening us with
> > >> > extinction. At some point you must become a li-on hunter (hunter of
> > >> > the lie). I just got to jump on the lion and expose the beast. The
> > >> > lie may have been a defense mechanism in evolution, but it's not
> > >> > working anymore.
> >
> > >> > Enough for the Wisdom of the Jungle, off I go in my monkey bike.
> >
> > >> I'm still seeing an implicit assumption that humans are sane.
> >
> > >> This is a common failing of religious and philosophical debate.
> >
> > >> If we started by assuming the human mind is as much a collection of
> > >> distorted components that did not (in this instance) result in rapid
> > >> extinction (IOW, a lucky break for this species), as the human body is,
> > >> then we might get somewhere.
> >
> > > 80% are dumb and 20% are crazy, who are the people that create.
> >
> > > In order to get somewhere we must leave the primitive mind behind, which
> > > means no magical explanations of events. I think someone like Einstein
> > > could lead the world instead of our political leaders versed in winning
> > > elections and wiping out the opposition.
> >
> > There are plenty of better alternatives to the traditional types that
> > "lead us". Unfortunately, its generally the psychopaths that "go the
> > extra mile" to grasp the reigns of power.
> >
> > The only mechanism we have to swing things away from this kind of
> > perpetual result is an educated population with a capacity for
> > independant thought, and understanding of our animal instincts, and
> > civilised dialogue.
> >
> > Maybe we need to vote for domestic cats next time.
>
> You are expecting too much from education. You must first change the
> political climate.
>
> Whoever is in charge I want him to have this motto:
>
> ï¿½Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
> movingï¿½ -A. Einstein
>
> It seems we live in a world willing to sacrifice the whole of humanity
> not to change a bit and make room for the bike and other clever ideas.

We should not listen to those that religion was based on what a talking
snake suggested.
--
Karma, What a concept!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 7:11 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep jungle"

On Dec 31, 9:23 am, "VFW," <george...@toast.net> wrote:
> In article
> <acb965ad-b0a9-43e5-b684-1934f9bff...@k11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
> "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep jungle"
>
>
>
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 23, 2:38 pm, Mike Jones <l...@dasteem.invalid> wrote:
> > > Responding to His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep
> > > jungle:
>
> > > > On Dec 23, 11:20 am, Mike Jones <l...@dasteem.invalid> wrote:
> > > >> Responding to His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep
> > > >> jungle:
>
> > > >> > On Dec 23, 9:07 am, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> On Dec 22, 11:12 am, "davenort...@gmail.com" <davenort...@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > Currently, in many quarters, Christianity is updating its
> > > >> >> > theology
> > > >> >> > in light of New and Old Testament studies as well as modern
> > > >> >> > science.
>
> > > >> >> > In this regard, there is a tendency to regard much of
> > > >> >> > scripture as
> > > >> >> > symbolic or metaphorical. Of coarse, the Devil is now correctly
> > > >> >> > downgraded from a reality to a representation of the human
> > > >> >> > experience of evil in life. Including suffering, temptation etc.
>
> > > >> >> > To my mind, certain types of evil such as world wars are so
> > > >> >> > horrendous
> > > >> >> > that the human mind is pushed beyond factual description to
> > > >> >> > symbolic and poetic language, for example myth. What else can you
> > > >> >> > do when you affirm God is all powerful and all good and the evil
> > > >> >> > encountered seems to strongly counter that faith. So, though
> > > >> >> > I've long ago abandoned belief in the Devil, I can readily
> > > >> >> > understand why our forbears believed in a real Devil roaming the
> > > >> >> > world to tempt and to destroy. Something the uneducated
> > > >> >> > non-scientific masses of the middle and ancient ages could
> > > >> >> > believe. And, at the same time, the heat was taken off the
> > > >> >> > Church and theologians because the Devil, not God, "did it."
>
> > > >> >> So, in your mind, it makes perfect sense that ancient uneducated
> > > >> >> people anthropomorphized pain and suffering, but joy and peace come
> > > >> >> from a real being, no anthropomorphism here... Why the dichotomy?
>
> > > >> >> Come on, you are so close!
> > > >> >> One down, one to go!
>
> > > >> > I don't think he'll take the jump because many people are afraid of
> > > >> > the truth. Many people actually hide from it if it threatens their
> > > >> > lifestyle or requires some major mental overhaul. The most they dare
> > > >> > is a tuneup. ;)
>
> > > >> > Same point is demonstrated with Assange. Many people are simply
> > > >> > afraid of the truth for the same reasons. "What will happen if I must
> > > >> > see the ugly beast?" Climate Change is a similar issue...
>
> > > >> > This hiding from the truth though is what is threatening us with
> > > >> > extinction. At some point you must become a li-on hunter (hunter of
> > > >> > the lie). I just got to jump on the lion and expose the beast. The
> > > >> > lie may have been a defense mechanism in evolution, but it's not
> > > >> > working anymore.
>
> > > >> > Enough for the Wisdom of the Jungle, off I go in my monkey bike.
>
> > > >> I'm still seeing an implicit assumption that humans are sane.
>
> > > >> This is a common failing of religious and philosophical debate.
>
> > > >> If we started by assuming the human mind is as much a collection of
> > > >> distorted components that did not (in this instance) result in rapid
> > > >> extinction (IOW, a lucky break for this species), as the human body is,
> > > >> then we might get somewhere.
>
> > > > 80% are dumb and 20% are crazy, who are the people that create.
>
> > > > In order to get somewhere we must leave the primitive mind behind, which
> > > > means no magical explanations of events. I think someone like Einstein
> > > > could lead the world instead of our political leaders versed in winning
> > > > elections and wiping out the opposition.
>
> > > There are plenty of better alternatives to the traditional types that
> > > "lead us". Unfortunately, its generally the psychopaths that "go the
> > > extra mile" to grasp the reigns of power.
>
> > > The only mechanism we have to swing things away from this kind of
> > > perpetual result is an educated population with a capacity for
> > > independant thought, and understanding of our animal instincts, and
> > > civilised dialogue.
>
> > > Maybe we need to vote for domestic cats next time.
>
> > You are expecting too much from education. You must first change the
> > political climate.
>
> > Whoever is in charge I want him to have this motto:
>
> > ï¿½Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
> > movingï¿½ -A. Einstein
>
> > It seems we live in a world willing to sacrifice the whole of humanity
> > not to change a bit and make room for the bike and other clever ideas.
>
> We should not listen to those that religion was based on what a talking
> snake suggested.
> --
> Karma, What a concept!

Very important point. I have one like that as neighbor, but she walks
on two feet. ;)

We rather listen to people like Einstein...

Collected Quotes from Albert Einstein

* "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and
more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to
move in the opposite direction."
* "Imagination is more important than knowledge."
* "Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love."
* "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."
* "The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income
tax."
* "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
* "The only real valuable thing is intuition."
* "A person starts to live when he can live outside himself."
* "I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice."
* "God is subtle but he is not malicious."
* "Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character."
* "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."

http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html

***

Actually I'm sure he wouldn't mind we challenged some of his ideas. HE
NEVER PRETENDED TO BE GOD.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 11:39 pm
From: "Edward Dolan"

"His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep jungle"
<nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8d5d7eb7-7428-42b9-89d6-e8d63477d9a2@d7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
[...]
> Actually I'm sure he wouldn't mind we challenged some of his ideas. HE
NEVER PRETENDED TO BE GOD.

You've got shit for brains all right. Now what else is new?

Fucking Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Air Locks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ff9458801963f673?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 6:30 am
From: "VFW,"

In article <fc0lh6h0tm03jqarvl93t2rs8366ll506e@4ax.com>,
sf <sf@geemail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 08:03:25 -0800, Tru Dat <georgeswk@toast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > In article <8ndsonFj14U1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Gordon wrote
> > > > Tru Dat <georgeswk@toast.net> wrote
> > >
> > > >> of course you don't want an outside door to open directly into the
> > > >> great outdoors. We made a little space outside with another door.
> > > >> It's a great space to leave shoes and boots. and firewood. Etc.
> > > >> It sure buffers the cold winds.
> > >
> > > > How hard would it be to add one of these as a DIY project?
> > >
> > > Very easy. One of the easier DIY projects.
> >
> > Yes, look for a "second" door or maybe a nice used one. Tempered Glass
> > is probably a good idea. And some go for a double keyed dead bolt.
>
> We called them a storm door when I was a kid. In the summer, it was
> changed out for a screen door. I don't live in a four season climate
> anymore.

We've added a wood storage feature to our air-lock and feed the wood
stove from the air-lock. Sure beats bringing the messy wood/bugs/dirt
inside and then removing ashes.
Less smoke inside too and the fire consumes air from the outside not
sucking air out of the living cabin,creating drafts.
Some build a wood box into the wall , feeding it from the air-lock to
then slide through the wall to appear next to the wood stove.
--
Karma, What a concept!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New car buying services (e.g. Costco & BJs) vs. emails to dealerships?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/00977a09221040f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 7:00 am
From: mike

First of all, I'm not interested in a used car. What I'm most
comfortable with is buying a new car and driving it till the wheels
falls off. Discussion of even slightly used cars is off topic. I know
all about depreciation, etc.

What's the best way to buy a *new* car? Using a new car buying service
(like via BJ's and Costco or CarsDirect) or emailing dealerships
directly? Clark Howard suggests that the only thing you should do at a
physical dealership is show up, sign paperwork, and take possession of
a vehicle, e.g. if you go in and start trying to haggle, you've lost.

Would using a car buying service like BJs prevent me from taking
advantage of year-end financing incentives (0%) from Ford, etc?

I hate car dealerships and haggling. Too many factors and variables.

Also, which fees are "junk fees" that I shouldn't pay for a new car. I
always see "document" fees, etc.

Again, sorry, but I'm not interested in buying used or being persuaded
to do so. What I'm asking is, once one has decided one wants to buy a
new car, what's the least painful and economically best method /
approach for doing so?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 9:05 am
From: "Rod Speed"

mike wrote:

> First of all, I'm not interested in a used car. What I'm most
> comfortable with is buying a new car and driving it till the wheels
> falls off. Discussion of even slightly used cars is off topic. I know
> all about depreciation, etc.

> What's the best way to buy a *new* car? Using a new car buying service
> (like via BJ's and Costco or CarsDirect) or emailing dealerships directly?

I personally just rang all the dealerships and got the best price
they were prepared to offer and then took that to the only dealer
in my town and got him to match the best price I could find.

Its more complicated than that if you have a trade,
I didnt, and I drive new cars into the ground like you
do. I had used the previous car for 35+ years.

I didnt even bother with a test drive of the car I wanted, and
shocked the dealer principal speechless when I told him that.

I paid for it using a card too.

> Clark Howard suggests that the only thing you should do at a physical
> dealership is show up, sign paperwork, and take possession of a vehicle,

I dont recall that I signed any paperwork. I was paying cash for the car.

> e.g. if you go in and start trying to haggle, you've lost.

I haggled over the phone, just because it was more convenient to do it that way.

I had to wait a week or so till the car I wanted was delivered, but I wanted
a bright yellow car, because those are much easier to find in the carparks
etc. I could have had a light blue one without waiting.

> Would using a car buying service like BJs prevent me from taking
> advantage of year-end financing incentives (0%) from Ford, etc?

> I hate car dealerships and haggling. Too many factors and variables.

> Also, which fees are "junk fees" that I shouldn't pay for a new car.

My price did include registration and compulsory insurance.

> I always see "document" fees, etc.

I made it clear that I wanted the actual price I was going to pay.

> Again, sorry, but I'm not interested in buying used or being persuaded
> to do so. What I'm asking is, once one has decided one wants to buy a
> new car, what's the least painful and economically best method /
> approach for doing so?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 10:07 am
From: mike

Thanks Rod.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TM shines his light on death
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/000d1ea1befcc325?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 8:40 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep jungle"

Just think about it: You're riding your bike with no particular
destination and a p/u truck runs you over... Is that full stop or
something else? SUV drivers are overwhelmingly Christian so they are
expected to be in Heaven. I like to think there's an alternative.

On Dec 31, 3:52 am, Roy Batty <turt...@fastmail.net> wrote:

> So, there has to be a full stop?

> Yes.

> Otherwise, this wouldn't be?

> Right.

> But, what's after that.

> Well if we knew that, then there'd be no full stop.

> Death, my friend, is the distinction, the object, the philosophy, the
> end.

> Hmm.

> Love you too.
> Too you love.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVFMTBcMBRs

(THE MONKEY IS PLAYING THE FLUTE ABOVE AND HAVING FUN)

Just to be punctilious, there's no death, just NOTHING.

The full stop is more like an ellipsis. TO BE CONTINUED... ;)

----------------------------------------------

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 8:37 pm
From: "Edward Dolan"

"His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the prophet of the deep jungle"
<comandante.banana@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:72600636-4d04-4fa9-accd-1e7792e7854b@v17g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
> Just think about it: You're riding your bike with no particular
> destination and a p/u truck runs you over... Is that full stop or
> something else? SUV drivers are overwhelmingly Christian so they are
> expected to be in Heaven. I like to think there's an alternative.

TM is a poor crazy bastard who just posts on his one favorite subject -
hatred of motor vehicles because they interfere with his use of the roads.
His other favorite subject is attacking Christianity. If you respond to this
poor crazy bastard, then you are a poor crazy bastard too.

He likes to reference monkeys and other wild animals normally found only in
zoos because he is most likely a wild beast himself. I think he fornicates
with monkeys, but I can't prove it.

TM should confine himself to just one thread instead of proliferating them
like a poor crazy bastard. He is insane of course. I liken him to the
village idiot of olden times. The difference these days is that no one any
longer recognizes the village idiot because idiocy has become so widespread.

But I will be here to remind one and all of what a poor crazy bastard TM is.
It is a mark of My Greatness that I can still recognize the village idiot
even if the rest of you can't.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

==============================================================================
TOPIC: R.I.P. Dave Hitt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/25a6af1a3a4ec9dd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 3:09 pm
From: Hittman

On Dec 30, 2:44 am, Dan <dtj1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I just got word that former MCFL poster from the late 1990's/early
> 2000's Dave Hitt passed away from Lung Cancer this morning. Let's all
> have a moment of silence and take some time to share some memories and
> pay respects to one of the most influential frugal living and smoking
> advocates this group has ever known.

No, he didn't. I'm still around, and still growing strong. Just came
back from a long walk with the dog. He enjoyed chewing on a stick, I
enjoyed a La Gloria Cubana that had a couple of years on it.

The nature of the rumor makes me guess that it was started by some
Nicotine Nazi. Sorry, Spunky, I'll probably not only outlive you, but
enjoy my life a lot more.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Test
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6be1873987bdd1ac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 3:41 pm
From: "Tony"

test

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 4:06 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"Tony" wrote in message news:iflpo5$ash$1@four.albasani.net...

test

-----
FAIL!!!!!

try alt.test or any of the other 100+ test groups

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 14 new messages in 8 topics - digest