Frugal Living: Jan 10, 2009

Saturday, January 10, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Survivalism Retail Style
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 9 2009 11:56 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:98e211b4-3906-4032-9112-3eab4aabd7dc@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

<snip>

>Any guess what the retiring baby boomers will do to the equation?

>Lots of changes there...stocks to be sold, houses to be moved,
>services needed, fewer workers...it gets interesting fast.

>TMT

Not nearly as much as some people fear. I quoted some Census projections
here a couple of days ago. The working-age group is 63% of the population
now. In 2050, it will decline only to 57%.

The press has gone hog wild with this, distorting it all out of proportion.
If you want to see the whole story, go to the Census Bureau website. It will
help you cut through the crap we've been hearing.

--
Ed Huntress

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 6:02 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:32:52 +0000, EskWIRED wrote:

> > In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:16:26 +0000, EskWIRED wrote:
> >
> >> > Not nearly. Inflation is not in the double-digits. Indeed, many
> >> > folks are worried about deflation instead.
> >
> >> Only because energy costs have dropped by >50%. Real costs are rising
> >> sharply, go grocery shopping or look at your health care premiums. Big
> >> ticket items, such as cars and homes have disintegrated. That is
> >> moderating the index otherwise the rates would be more indicative of
> >> cost of living.
> >
> > All of those items are factored in. They are all a part of "real
> > costs".

> True. And as the property prices level off inflation will become more
> apparent. As people cease buying cars at any price inflation will be
> driven up. As the printing presses continue to smoke, inflation will
> soar. I see no mitigating indicators in the near term to replace those
> which will inevitably peter out.

> Then the inflating prices of commodities, cost of livign, may finally be
> seen clearly.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 6:06 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think the recession will last longer than anyone thinks it will and
> the recovery will much more subdued than we are used to.

The last Bush Recession, the one Clinton inherited, met your predictions
for this one.

Whe growth started again, it was SLOW, so slow it was hard to tell that we
were growing at all.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 9:03 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Curly Surmudgeon wrote
> EskWIRED wrote
>> Curly Surmudgeon CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote

>>> Early in Reagan's term we were worried about stagflation, it seem to be upon us now.

>> Not nearly. Inflation is not in the double-digits. Indeed, many
>> folks are worried about deflation instead.

> Only because energy costs have dropped by >50%.

Nope, thats not the reason house prices have dropped very substantially.

> Real costs are rising sharply,

Plenty have dropped very sharply, most obviously with houses and cars.

> go grocery shopping

None of those are increasing sharply anymore.

> or look at your health care premiums.

For different reasons entirely.

> Big ticket items, such as cars and homes have disintegrated.

So we arent seeing substantial inflation.

> That is moderating the index otherwise the rates
> would be more indicative of cost of living.

The cost of living hasnt substantially increased.

> There is a latency, as shown historically, between opening
> the spigot of Fed printing press, and inflation of 12-18 months.

The Fed isnt currently using the printing press.

> In other words inflation begins a year or so after the Federal
> Government begins printing money out of nothingness.

That isnt what the Fed has been doing. Its JUST substantially
increasing the national debt, a different matter entirely.

> Those presses went into overdrive about 6 months ago,

Like hell they did. The effect of all that money being pissed
against the wall in Iraq started a hell of a long time before that.

> do the math.

Have fun explaining why we havent seen substantial inflation
as a result of what was poured down that rat hole, Iraq.

> It's hard to determine just how much green is being printed since Bush eliminated
> M3 statistics a couple of years ago, it can only be inferred and is very inexact.

But we clearly havent seen any real inflation as a result of what was poured down that rat hole, Iraq.

So it may well be that we wont either with the bailouts either.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 10:06 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:

> Then the inflating prices of commodities, cost of livign, may finally be
> seen clearly.

Commodities are droppig in price currently. We've already discussed oil.
All the rest are subject to worldwide shrink in demand. A massive
contraction in production might shift the balance. In the meantime, I see
more pressure downwards than upwards.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 10:30 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ss2miF80sr9U1@mid.individual.net...
> Curly Surmudgeon wrote
>> EskWIRED wrote
>>> Curly Surmudgeon CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote
>
>>>> Early in Reagan's term we were worried about stagflation, it seem to be
>>>> upon us now.
>
>>> Not nearly. Inflation is not in the double-digits. Indeed, many
>>> folks are worried about deflation instead.
>
>> Only because energy costs have dropped by >50%.
>
> Nope, thats not the reason house prices have dropped very substantially.
>
>> Real costs are rising sharply,
>
> Plenty have dropped very sharply, most obviously with houses and cars.
>
>> go grocery shopping
>
> None of those are increasing sharply anymore.
>
>> or look at your health care premiums.
>
> For different reasons entirely.
>
>> Big ticket items, such as cars and homes have disintegrated.
>
> So we arent seeing substantial inflation.
>
>> That is moderating the index otherwise the rates
>> would be more indicative of cost of living.
>
> The cost of living hasnt substantially increased.
>
>> There is a latency, as shown historically, between opening
>> the spigot of Fed printing press, and inflation of 12-18 months.
>
> The Fed isnt currently using the printing press.
>
>> In other words inflation begins a year or so after the Federal
>> Government begins printing money out of nothingness.
>
> That isnt what the Fed has been doing. Its JUST substantially
> increasing the national debt, a different matter entirely.
>
>> Those presses went into overdrive about 6 months ago,
>
> Like hell they did. The effect of all that money being pissed
> against the wall in Iraq started a hell of a long time before that.
>
>> do the math.
>
> Have fun explaining why we havent seen substantial inflation
> as a result of what was poured down that rat hole, Iraq.
>
>> It's hard to determine just how much green is being printed since Bush
>> eliminated
>> M3 statistics a couple of years ago, it can only be inferred and is very
>> inexact.
>
> But we clearly havent seen any real inflation as a result of what was
> poured down that rat hole, Iraq.
>
> So it may well be that we wont either with the bailouts either.

Your conclusions about inflation are right, but it is true we've been
increasing the money supply at a pretty good clip:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

However, velocity is so low that it's not causing inflation. The rates of
inflation for food, energy, and everything but food and energy can be seen
here (selections you want are at the bottom of the list):

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/9

Food has just flattened out. "Everything but" flattened early last month.
The overall rate of inflation, if you project from the mid-December numbers,
probably just crossed the zero point within the last week.

So every major category is now flat -- no inflation, or darned close to it.

There is no stagflation, in other words. We have recession, and we'll
probably soon have overall deflation.

BTW, for whoever was complaining about the lack of M3, that's not what
measures currency (although currency is a part of M3). Currency is M0. The
M1 measure is very close. The lack of M3 data, which is pretty useless to
almost everyone anyway, doesn't have anything to do with what we know about
how much money the government is "printing."

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If you want to try Linux.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22630c57a126c940?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 12:11 am
From: Tony Sivori

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:43:39 -0500, Jeff wrote:
>
> I've got a touch screen tablet I'm thinking of loading a *nix flavor on.
>
> I've heard all the raving about Ubuntu, but it seems like Mandriva has
> long had the edge. I don't have much spare time, should I believe the
> Ubuntu hype or just load up Mandriva?

Gnome or KDE?

If Gnome, I'd lean toward Ubuntu. If KDE, you might want to try Mandriva
first. Mandrake (as Mandriva was called back then) was the first distro I
tried and I stuck with it for years.

Currently I'm using Kubuntu, the KDE based version of Ubuntu. In my
opinion, the biggest advantage of Kubuntu over Mandriva is Kubuntu's
software repositories. The disadvantage is that Canonical is Gnome
centric, so Kubuntu doesn't get as much development as Ubuntu.

If you will be using KDE, I would avoid KDE 4 until it has had some time
to mature. Perhaps six months to a year. Kubuntu 8.04 is the last version
with KDE 3.x, not sure about Mandriva.

As for specifics about touch screen tablets, I don't know what would best
suit your needs. I've never had or used one.

If you can find time, you might want to read the Ubuntu and Mandriva
newsgroups and website forums.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm now filtering all Google Groups posters.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: don't gas stations have bathrooms any more?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/104c548907eef340?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 6:22 am
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <ppednSb73q8ylvXUnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@posted.visi>,
Brian Elfert <belfert@visi.com> wrote:

> "John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> writes:
>
> >I think you should call both Marathon and the state Attorney General.
> >The building code probably requires a bathroom for the public.
>
> I don't think public bathrooms are required in Minnesota. The state
> either passed or was considering a law that required stores and the like
> to allow people with a certain malady to use any bathroom including
> private employee only bathrooms.

My thought with calling Marathon is that it might be contrary to
the station's franchise agreement. Not having a bathroom would
be a negative as far as corporate identity goes.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

==============================================================================
TOPIC: classic Mobile Home q.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/64184a7b40f05c3d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 6:54 am
From: Siskuwihane

On Jan 9, 8:06 pm, MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 12:15 am, doc marten <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote:
>
> > we have a '59 Rex Mobile home and we love it. but I was curious.
> > why does it have complete running lights , two permanent axles , electric
> > brakes and hitch . It is 45 x 10 ?
> > No ones going traveling with this monster. It's a long , long long
> > trailer. It features a lot on built ins. like cabinets and a full
> > kitchen not the construction office type.
> > --
> > When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
> > that's Evolution.
>
> You are truly living life large, Doc.
> That's 450 square feet not counting the deduction for partitions and
> the 1" wall thickness, kitchen cabinets and such.

What's wrong with living in a home that only has the area you need and
not the area needed to impress the neighbors?

Heating and cooling costs would be reduced along with the associated
energy used to produce them.
Raw materials used to build them would be reduced. Less "stuff' would
be needed to fill them. Less space would be needed to site them.

Sounds like a good thing to me.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 7:36 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

Siskuwihane wrote:
> On Jan 9, 8:06�pm, MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 9, 12:15 am, doc marten <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote:
> >
> > > we have a '59 Rex Mobile home and we love it. but I was curious.
> > > why does it have complete running lights , two permanent axles , electric
> > > brakes and hitch . It is 45 x 10 ?
> > > No ones going traveling with this monster. It's a long , long long
> > > trailer. �It features a lot on built ins. like cabinets and a full
> > > kitchen not the construction office type.
> > > --
> > > When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
> > > that's Evolution.
> >
> > You are truly living life large, Doc.
> > That's 450 square feet not counting the deduction for partitions and
> > the 1" wall thickness, kitchen cabinets and such.
>
> What's wrong with living in a home that only has the area you need and
> not the area needed to impress the neighbors?
>
> Heating and cooling costs would be reduced along with the associated
> energy used to produce them.
> Raw materials used to build them would be reduced. Less "stuff' would
> be needed to fill them. Less space would be needed to site them.
>
> Sounds like a good thing to me.

True indeed. Remember that post about the couple that sold their big
house and started building 150 sq. ft. houses and lived in one
themselves? Doc went a little extra though. He added an out house.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 8:56 am
From: Dave Garland

Siskuwihane wrote:
> What's wrong with living in a home that only has the area you need and
> not the area needed to impress the neighbors?
>
> Heating and cooling costs would be reduced along with the associated
> energy used to produce them...

True, although a 1959 mobile home is unlikely to be a particularly
good example of energy efficiency. But a lot depends on the local
climate and personal tolerances.

Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Betsy Hart column: "Staying off the hedonic treadmill"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cae437bd156d05e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 8:41 am
From: "Rod Speed"

8lenona321@yahoo.com wrote:
> If you want to leave her a comment, you can do so at
> www.betsysblog.com.
>
> She's a divorced mother of four. (The oldest, her son, is 14, I
> think.)
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/betsyhart/1367236,CST-FTR-HART08.article
>
> First third of article........
>
> At a recent gathering of my large family (I'm the youngest of five
> kids), nieces, nephews, etc., my brother called out at the top of his
> voice, "What kind of ice cream is it?" And as always, laughter ensued,
> especially from our good-natured dad.
>
> You see years ago (and I mean years ago) when I was about 5, my family
> had just finished eating dinner and my mom announced there was ice
> cream for desert. One of my brothers made the mistake of asking, "What
> flavor is it?" That lead to exclamations of outrage from my dad. Why?
> Because when he was a kid during the Great Depression, they were lucky
> to get ice cream at all, darn it! It was the biggest treat imaginable!
> In fact most of the time the only way to get it was to make it
> themselves and no one, especially not a kid, would have even dreamed
> of asking what flavor the ice cream was!
>
> And on it went. I'm not sure if any one of us ever did get ice cream
> that night, but I do know that we learned a lot about the history of
> ice cream, at least in our father's life. We also learned that my
> parents thought we kids were ungrateful. Imagine that.
>
> Flash forward, and things have changed - for the worse........

Silly to claim that things have changed for the worst when we dont get great depressions anymore.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 10:44 am
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

On Jan 10, 11:41 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Silly to claim that things have changed for the worst when we dont get great depressions anymore.

You don't REALLY think Hart was suggesting that the current recession
is going to turn into something worse than the Great Depression, do
you?

If you'd bother to read the whole article, you'd know, but I thought
it was obvious what she was going to start talking about, anyway.

Here are the next two paragraphs, if you like:

"Flash forward, and things have changed -- for the worse. For
starters, today's parents spend five times as much on our kids'
'stuff,' on average, as our parents did. And that's in real dollars.
But would anyone suggest that today's children are more grateful in
general than we were as kids?

"It seems there is a theory in psychology, the 'hedonic treadmill,'
that explains why the acquisition of more stuff doesn't in and of
itself lead to happiness. Supposedly it's the case that when we get
more 'stuff,' our expectations for more 'stuff' rise in tandem, so
while we can be satisfied in the short term by a thing, over the long
term acquiring more things will never make us happy because we'll just
want more, well, things (i.e., exactly how we Americans got into our
current economic mess)......"

She then talks about her gentle methods for combating the vicious
cycle in her own kids.

I enjoy her sometimes, but I wish she'd realize that some things she
does are not cute, such as when she admits to not knowing how to
pronounce a Greek name. So, I say, look it up! Not that readers want
or need any patronizing explanation of how to pronounce it when they
won't be using it in their everyday lives anyway. It's just that
flaunting one's ignorance is childish - and, again, not cute in men or
women. And Google makes looking up such things easy enough.

Lenona.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone else seeing mystery phone numbers on Embarq long distance bill?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5143a3a3f5a603f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 9:09 am
From: "Rod Speed"

s2000hondas2000@gmail.com wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> s2000hondas2...@gmail.com wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> s2000hondas2...@gmail.com wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> s2000hondas2...@gmail.com wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>> Only fools/dinosaurs use checks anymore.

>>>>>>> DOT only takes checks, no cash, no cc.

>>>>>> Only fools/dinosaurs let them get away with that.

>>>>>> You elected those who 'run' operations like that, fuckwit.

>>>>> And? It's not costing me anything.

>>>> You have always been, and always will be, completely irrelevant, fuckwit.

>>> And yet you keep replying to my posts,.

>> To keep rubbing your stupid nose in that basic, fuckwit.

> Sure you are.

Fraid so.

> I have free checking and last year earned $150 in Target gifts cards, cost to me, zero.

True in spades of a card that has no annual charge and rebates, fuckwit.

And you get the convenience that no check can ever provide.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Medical dilemma - any suggestions?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df14805001c77364?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 10:26 am
From: info_at_1-script_dot_com@foo.com (spendwize.com)

xxxxo
-------------------------------------
There is a 29 year old adult single female living in Texas. Due to several
chronic and worsening medical conditions ( including IBS and fibromyalgia)
this gal has been unable to attain and hold a full-time job. She was fired
from the last one she held for 3 months for taking too many medical
emergency days (She offered to make her work up but was told the company
did not have any flex-time policy). Texas, in its conservative wisdom, has
denied her unemployment benefits. She has applied for social security
disability, but that process takes well over a year to resolve.
She is living currently with a "gentleman" acquaintance rent free, but her
savings are very limited and he- this gentleman- has been known to decide
on a moments notice that he wants her gone. She has looked into support
from social services to get her own place to live, but they have a
wait-list!
As her mother, I have used the limit of my financial means to subsidize
her living but I cannot do any more at this point, especially since it is
likely I will have to assume paying for her medical insurance any day.
Worst case scenario is that she moves back home , but I am in the
Northeast where the winters are miserable and the cold further aggravates
her conditions. How does she continue to survive - at least until the
spring - where she is now?

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.spendwize.com http://www.spendwize.com/groups/
Consumer News and Discussions Platform of the Net
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
misc.consumers.frugal-living - 33309 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 1:41 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <4968e838$0$31588$6c36adad@news.usenetserver.com>,
info_at_1-script_dot_com@foo.com (spendwize.com) wrote:

> There is a 29 year old adult single female living in Texas. Due to several
> chronic and worsening medical conditions ( including IBS and fibromyalgia)
> this gal has been unable to attain and hold a full-time job.

How about:

1) dump the looser attitude.

2) get a job that has flex hours or is based on piece work. Maybe
this means stringing together a few part-time jobs.

3) dump the bozo.

4) move to where it is cheaper to live.

5) find someone of higher quality to date & get married to.

-john-

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sales Taxes on Web Purchases
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9ed7426ab3321f7d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 10:42 am
From: Vic Smith

Just did a yearly T-Mobile refill.
Noticed my $10.00 refill cost $11.01, which reflects the local sales
tax rate. Cook County, IL.
The refills weren't taxed a couple years ago.
Seems some web purchases add the tax, others don't.
Anybody know what's going on with this?
Wonder how it will affect web sales.

--Vic

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 11:23 am
From: Dave Garland

Vic Smith wrote:
> Just did a yearly T-Mobile refill.
> Noticed my $10.00 refill cost $11.01, which reflects the local sales
> tax rate. Cook County, IL.
> The refills weren't taxed a couple years ago.
> Seems some web purchases add the tax, others don't.
> Anybody know what's going on with this?
> Wonder how it will affect web sales.

The flip answer, of course, is that Blago wants his share ;->

In general, in the US, you're supposed to pay state sales ('and use')
tax even on things purchased from another jurisdiction. For the most
part, businesses that have any office/store/etc. in your state must
charge tax, even if you buy online. Otherwise, you're supposed to
report it when you do your state income tax. Though I suspect that
outside of big-ticket items and things like automobiles that require
government registration, compliance is less than 100% :) Perhaps very
much less.

<TINFOIL HAT>It wouldn't surprise me if the "fatherland security"
excuse to make banks and financial institutions share data with the
government didn't lead to states finding out more about your purchases
and demanding their cut.</TINFOIL HAT> Nah, governments would never
do anything like that.

http://www.callingmart.com/ doesn't charge tax (I assume that their
physical location is somewhere there isn't a sales tax, or else they
eat the tax). And the $10 T-Mobile refill I bought from them a few
days ago cost $9.30.

Dave

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 11:39 am
From: Vic Smith

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:23:16 -0600, Dave Garland
<dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:

>Vic Smith wrote:
>> Just did a yearly T-Mobile refill.
>> Noticed my $10.00 refill cost $11.01, which reflects the local sales
>> tax rate. Cook County, IL.
>> The refills weren't taxed a couple years ago.
>> Seems some web purchases add the tax, others don't.
>> Anybody know what's going on with this?
>> Wonder how it will affect web sales.
>
>The flip answer, of course, is that Blago wants his share ;->
>
>In general, in the US, you're supposed to pay state sales ('and use')
>tax even on things purchased from another jurisdiction. For the most
>part, businesses that have any office/store/etc. in your state must
>charge tax, even if you buy online. Otherwise, you're supposed to
>report it when you do your state income tax. Though I suspect that
>outside of big-ticket items and things like automobiles that require
>government registration, compliance is less than 100% :) Perhaps very
>much less.
>
><TINFOIL HAT>It wouldn't surprise me if the "fatherland security"
>excuse to make banks and financial institutions share data with the
>government didn't lead to states finding out more about your purchases
>and demanding their cut.</TINFOIL HAT> Nah, governments would never
>do anything like that.
>
>http://www.callingmart.com/ doesn't charge tax (I assume that their
>physical location is somewhere there isn't a sales tax, or else they
>eat the tax). And the $10 T-Mobile refill I bought from them a few
>days ago cost $9.30.
>
Thanks for all that info.
Do T-Mobile refill minutes bought on this site have the same 365 day
expiration (Gold Rewards) as on the T-Mobile site?
Seems weird that T-Mobile would sell refills to a reseller.
To what advantage for them?
Are these minutes easily added to your T-Mobile account?

--Vic

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 12:47 pm
From: Brian Elfert

Vic Smith <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> writes:

>Just did a yearly T-Mobile refill.
>Noticed my $10.00 refill cost $11.01, which reflects the local sales
>tax rate. Cook County, IL.
>The refills weren't taxed a couple years ago.
>Seems some web purchases add the tax, others don't.

Legally, all of your purchases are subject to either sales or use tax if
your state has a sales tax.

Internet/telephone/mail order companies cannot be required by law to
collect taxes for a state if they don't have an office or some other
physical location in that state. T-Mobile almost certainly has a store,
kiosk, or office in Cook county. Heck, a cell tower they own could
probably be considered a physical presence.

You still owe use tax on any purchase where sales tax is not collected.
Most folks consider online/mail order tax free, but they are not really
tax free. It is just unlikely the average person will be audited for use
tax violations.

Some states only require payment of use tax if you buy more than $750
worth of goods in a year, but it isn't hard to to spend $750 online. Your
state income tax form may even have a line for declaring the use tax you
owe.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 1:42 pm
From: Dave Garland

Vic Smith wrote:
> Do T-Mobile refill minutes bought on this site have the same 365 day
> expiration (Gold Rewards) as on the T-Mobile site?

They are the same as time purchased from T-Mobile or another retailer.

> Seems weird that T-Mobile would sell refills to a reseller.

They also sell T-Mobile refill cards at K-Mart and Target (and
probably other places that sell phones). Target sometimes has them on
sale, but you'll have to pay the local tax if you buy there.

> To what advantage for them?

Probably to make it easy for you to use (and buy) more time. I rather
suspect that most people buy much much more than $10/year. Some
people need (or choose) to buy for cash, as they may not have a credit
card, or don't want to leave a paper trail. Some don't have Internet
access (and prudently choose not to enter a cc number via a possibly
insecure computer in a library or other public place).

And I imagine that even at a substantial discount, the profit margin
is huge, once T-Mobile has recouped their subsidy on the phone itself.

> Are these minutes easily added to your T-Mobile account?

Yes, just dial the appropriate number (I don't remember what it is,
star-something, but they'll tell you in the email that provides the
PIN number), and enter the PIN number.

Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where do you get your best buys in cat food?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0890e14d22167708?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 11:38 am
From: SMS

James wrote:
> Is it K Mart, Wal Mart, Target or big box pet stores? Now that gas
> is reasonalbe it may be worth it for me to drive to one of the stores
> to buy cat food.
>
> I used to get the 7 lb. Purina One but it seems expensive lately.

I volunteered for a cat rescue group, and we buy mass quantities of cat
food, and did extensive evaluations of the nutritional content, ash
levels, etc. of many of the dry foods, including the so-called premium
foods like Science Diet.

The Kirkland dry cat food from Costco was not only one of the least
expensive foods, it was one of the best ones. For the cats with medical
issues we sometimes had to buy special foods from the vet, but this was
rare.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.iofferkicks.com china cheap wholesale nike shoes,air jordan shoes,
air force one shoes.free shipping!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/de93beb5b72e3337?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 12:07 pm
From: "www.iofferkicks.com"

Get Nike Shoes at Super Cheap Prices
Discount Nike air jordans (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 90 Sneakers (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 91 Supplier (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 95 Shoes Supplier (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 97 Trainers (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 2003 Wholesale (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 2004 Shoes Wholesale
(www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 2005 Shop (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 2006 Shoes Shop (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max 360 Catalogs (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max Ltd Shoes Catalogs (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max Tn Men's Shoes (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max Tn 2 Women's Shoes (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max Tn 3 Customize (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max Tn 4 Shoes Customize
( www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Max Tn 6 Supply (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox NZ Shoes Supply (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox OZ Sale (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox TL Store (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox TL 2 Shoes Store (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox TL 3 Distributor (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Bmw Shoes Distributor (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Elite Shoes Manufacturer
(www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Monster Manufacturer (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox R4 Running Shoes (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox R5 Mens Shoes (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Ride Womens Shoes (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Rival Shoes Wholesaler (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Energia Wholesaler (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox LV Sneaker (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Turbo Suppliers (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Classic Shoes Suppliers
(www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Shox Dendara Trainer (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 1 Seller (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 2 Shoes Seller (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 3 Collection (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 4 Shoes Collection
(www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 5 Chaussure Shoes
(www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 6 Catalog (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 7 Shoes Catalog (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 8 Customized (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 9 Shoes Customized
(www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 10 Wholesalers (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Jordan 11 Shoes Wholesalers (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 12 Factory (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 13 Shoes Factory (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 14 Shoes Sell (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 16 Exporter (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 17 Shoes Exporter
(www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 18 Offer (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 19 Shoes Offer (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Air Jordan 20 Manufacture (www.iofferkicks.com)
Discount Nike Jordan 21 Shoes Manufacture (www.iofferkicks.com)
EMAIL:IOFFERKICKS@GMAIL.COM
MSN :IOFFERKICKS@MSN.COM

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Homelessness only happens to other people"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b10dcae36d1aacb2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 12:54 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> ultimauw@gmail.com wrote
>>
>> and that they are somehow immune from the economy.
>
> They dont have to be immune from the economy to not end up 'homeless', fool.

It's "immune *TO* the economy", stupid. What, are you ESL people?

--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stamps
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/61b22661916aefaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 1:19 pm
From: The Real Bev

Evelyn Leeper wrote:

> Dave Garland wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> The Paralyzed Veterans and one other. My mom called them to try to get
>>> them to stop sending the letters, but it didn't help.
>>
>> I get them in a few, too. I read somewhere that there was a study
>> that showed that the number of contributions was higher when the
>> return envelopes had stamps on them. Direct mail is very much a
>> business where tiny details matter, even when the marketers don't know
>> why.
>
> I get stamped envelopes from the National Yiddish Book Center and
> Doctors Without Borders.
>
> (I would really prefer that they didn't send them to me. Every January
> we sit down and decide how much to give various charities, and we send
> them the money with no reminders.)

That was my mom's method, but she did it in November. Sometimes she phoned
people with 800 numbers and told them that if she got another begging letter
from them they'd never get another dime from her. She continued to send checks
anyway, but she grumbled about it.

--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 10 2009 1:21 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dee wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I went in and asked. (1) You have to steam them off the old
>> envelope and glue them to the new; and (2) once they've been put
>> on an envelope you can't put them on another envelope. What's
>> wrong with this picture?
>
> This may have already been suggested, but I cut the stamps off then use
> a glue-stick to paste them onto the new envelope. Maybe it's a local
> thing or maybe it's that there's no tell-tale tape showing around the
> stamp, but the mail is accepted and sent with no problems.

That's what I use too :-(

There should be NO "local thing". It's a creature of the federal government and
local offices should NOT be allowed to be stupid just because they are.

--
Cheers,
Bev
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 3 new messages in 2 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Electric tea kettle - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/49a87501c53db580?hl=en
* OT - Survivalism Retail Style - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Electric tea kettle
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/49a87501c53db580?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 9 2009 11:08 pm
From: JimL

On Jan 9, 6:26 pm, haran...@lycos.com wrote:
> On Jan 9, 5:23 pm, art...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > A recent Consumers Reports article on coffee makers seemed to be
> > saying that a good cup of coffee depends upon reaching high water
> > temperature.
>
> > I have been thinking of getting an electric tea kettle and would
> > appreciate any recommendations.
>
> > Thank you.
>
> I have one and LOVE it for making tea - gets the water boiling FAST -
> need to have at least 2 cups in it though. It is more efficient
> electrically than a microwave. i believe the brand is Betty Crocker.

Coffee should never be boiled.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 9 2009 11:25 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 10, 1:08 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "cavelamb" <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:LZadnYDyw6rToPXUnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ed Huntress wrote:
> >> "cavelamb" <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>news:I-6dnVjF5O_OkvXUnZ2dnUVZ_hIAAAAA@earthlink.com...
> >>> Ed Huntress wrote:
> >>>> To answer the question you're really asking, no, it's not a good thing.
> >>>> With no credit, there's little consumption; with little consumption,
> >>>> there's declining or flat production; with declining or flat
> >>>> production, there's no increase in employment; and so on, around the
> >>>> circle. No credit, no economy. We wind up raising chickens in our SUVs.
> >>>> <g>
>
> >>>> To answer a question you didn't ask, having the banks sit on that money
> >>>> or use it to buy other banks, while it causes wailing and gnashing of
> >>>> teeth in Congress and in the press, may be good in the longer term,
> >>>> because the banks are ripe for some consolidation and will wind up
> >>>> stronger, and will be a lot less vulnerable to downturns. They'll raise
> >>>> their reserves and they'll be choosy about their loans. This is the
> >>>> good side, which compensates to some degree for the bad side.
>
> >>>> My guess, only from reading the experts and not from any real knowledge
> >>>> of it, is that the people in Treasury think the good side is worth it.
> >>>> The people in Congress don't think it's worth it. I have no way of
> >>>> knowing who is right.
>
> >>>> Now, forget you heard that, and don't tell anyone you heard it from me.
> >>>> d8-)
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ed Huntress
> >>> That has been my numba one question for quite a while, Ed.
>
> >>> "How far back do we get knocked?"
>
> >>> 1970s?
>
> >>> 1950s?
>
> >>> 1930s?
>
> >>> 1900?
>
> >>> And what population level does that economy support?
>
> >>> Or, in other words, how many people have to go bye bye???
>
> >> We start by putting all the anti-regulatory economists on cakes of ice
> >> and shoving them off from Pier 88 in Manhattan -- in warm weather.
>
> >> --
> >> Ed Huntress
>
> > Great Idea.
>
> > But I think we are too civilized (i.e. pussies) to actually do that.
>
> Now, having gotten that out of our system, how far back will we be knocked?
> There is no going back, but you mean what level of income and what kind of
> living it will support. This is a WAG: We'll be out of the recession and GDP
> will be back about where it was two years ago in four more years. Pure
> guesswork, so don't throw it back at me in four years. <g>
>
> There are a lot of things that can go wrong and we can wind up like the
> Japanese did for a decade, but with even worse unemployment problems and a
> vast number of underemployed. I doubt it, not because of any particular
> trend, but because of the ability of this economy to keep recreating itself.
> It's more like faith based on experiences of the past. But if you just
> project trends, it's a definite possibility.
>
> A recovering GDP does not mean happy times are here again. We could have an
> even worse income divide, which will be a parasite eating us up from the
> inside. And the accumulating debt could throw a wrench into the whole thing
> if interest rates on Treasury bills go way up. And they probably will go up.
> If we chug along with 3% or 4% underlying growth, debt service on the
> national debt could leave our net growth at zero, and the economy will stay
> flat for a long time. We'd eventually have to inflate our way out of that.
> If it comes, don't complain about inflation. It will be a poison we'll have
> to take, and hope it doesn't kill us. It will be just like taking poison to
> get rid of intestinal worms.
>
> Meantime, we need some really big reforms if we're going to come up smelling
> like roses within a decade. I don't doubt that it's possible -- that
> re-creation thing has served us very well. But it's going to be harder than
> hell to do it, given the present state of politics.
>
> If our national debt doubles to $20 trillion and our GDP stays where it is,
> we'll have about the same debt/GDP ratio that the Japanese have right now.
> That's right -- their national debt is twice what ours is, in relation to
> GDP, or individual incomes. Each person in Japan is saddled with twice as
> much public debt as we are. But that isn't what has stalled Japan's economy,
> so our increasing national debt is not, in itself, a disaster. It just thins
> the ice under us and makes us vulnerable to other forces.
>
> You can look at it as a challenge or get depressed about it. I think there's
> a better than even chance we'll get over this and come out better, so I see
> it as a challenge.
>
> That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee. I hope that, in two years,
> it doesn't buy three cups of coffee. d8-)
>
> --
> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Any guess what the retiring baby boomers will do to the equation?

Lots of changes there...stocks to be sold, houses to be moved,
services needed, fewer workers...it gets interesting fast.

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 9 2009 11:56 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:98e211b4-3906-4032-9112-3eab4aabd7dc@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

<snip>

>Any guess what the retiring baby boomers will do to the equation?

>Lots of changes there...stocks to be sold, houses to be moved,
>services needed, fewer workers...it gets interesting fast.

>TMT

Not nearly as much as some people fear. I quoted some Census projections
here a couple of days ago. The working-age group is 63% of the population
now. In 2050, it will decline only to 57%.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Saturday, January 10, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 3 new messages in 2 topics - digest