Frugal Living: Jul 2, 2008

Wednesday, July 2, 2008

26 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving high heating oil prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a184bef53e828bc7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 1:40 pm
From: Jeff

Bill wrote:
> It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!
>
> For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families
> into one house. Then each pays half.

Since you will have half as much space, why not just live in half the
space you have now? Close off and don't heat rooms that aren't
essential. Block off unneeded windows, even a good window is a thermal
disaster.

The best way to save is insulating, weatherizing and only heating
what is needed.

I'm not too worried myself. I was a third solar last year and I
should be a third or so more this winter. Fusion power at it's best!

Jeff

>
> Might want to start making friends with that mother-in-law...
>
>

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:00 pm
From: "h"

"Brad Naylor" <brad_naylor@live.com> wrote in message
news:kgQak.6218$LG4.4300@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
> news:g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>>
>> Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can
>> die of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave
>
> Generations of Eskimos make you wonder about that.

And those of us who live in upstate NY. You absolutely cannot die of
exposure inside your house at 55F unless you're naked and soaking wet, and I
doubt even that would kill you. You'd just wish you were dead.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:07 pm
From: "Lou"

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>
> >>
> >
> > Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>
> Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can
die
> of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave

I've read that an adult male, resting and nude, can die of exposure at 80F.
It isn't only a matter of temperature - the amount of clothing and activity,
among other things, play a big role as well.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:31 pm
From: "h"

"Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9LUak.173$qW.22@trndny03...
>
> "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
> news:g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>>
>> Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can
> die
>> of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave
>
> I've read that an adult male, resting and nude, can die of exposure at
> 80F.
> It isn't only a matter of temperature - the amount of clothing and
> activity,
> among other things, play a big role as well.
>
Maybe if he's in a coma or drunk, but normal people notice when they're too
hot or too cold and put on or take off clothing. I wake up when I'm too warm
or too cold and adjust the blankets accordingly. The last winter power
outage we had was 3 days long, and it was well below 50F inside the entire
time, even with a fire. We were all just fine.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
> news:g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>>
>> Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you
>> can die of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave

> I've read that an adult male, resting and nude, can die of exposure at 80F.

You need to be more selective about the mindless shit you read.

> It isn't only a matter of temperature - the amount of clothing
> and activity, among other things, play a big role as well.

Yes, but no naked person can die of exposure at 80F when resting inside a house.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:35 pm
From: Marsha

clams_casino wrote:
> 67 during the day & 62 at night are our preferred winter settings
>
> It was 68 this morning & thought I was going to die during my early
> morning walk.
> Up to 80 right now & hate the thought of going outside later today.
>
> Our current summer settings are 73 at night & 75 during the day.
>
> How does anyone stand 90? 80 is bad enough.

64 in the winter, day and night. I'd rather put on sweatpants and
sweatshirt than pay the higher gas bill. Summer - 77. Just enough to
keep the humidity out and it's quite comfortable.

Marsha/Ohio

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:37 pm
From: Marsha

Lou wrote:
> I've read that an adult male, resting and nude, can die of exposure at 80F.
> It isn't only a matter of temperature - the amount of clothing and activity,
> among other things, play a big role as well.
>

Which is why nursing homes keep the temp so freaking high.

Marsha/Ohio

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:24 pm
From: James

On Jul 2, 8:00 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> "Brad Naylor" <brad_nay...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kgQak.6218$LG4.4300@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
>
>
> > "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message
> >news:g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> >>> Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>
> >> Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can
> >> die of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave
>
> > Generations of Eskimos make you wonder about that.
>
> And those of us who live in upstate NY. You absolutely cannot die of
> exposure inside your house at 55F unless you're naked and soaking wet, and I
> doubt even that would kill you. You'd just wish you were dead.

I've been skiing in a T shirt (no coat) in late March at about 35 F.

I've also stood outside for about 6 hours in 40 below, well dressed
for the weather.

Much depends on wind, humidity, whether you are damp from sweat or
entry into water, the amount of sunlight etc.

The most dangerous conditions are when people experience a rapid drop,
ie go from sweating heavily to a below 50F, which can happen at
nightfall in the desert. If a cold wind chills someone who is sweaty
and cold, it can greatily speed up the process of heat loss.

James

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:37 pm
From: jdoe

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:58:07 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
wrote:

>
>"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
>news:g4fvng$b8m$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:6d1dc7FbbjqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!
>>>
>>> For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families
>>> into one house. Then each pays half.
>>
>> How would that help? You'd still need the other house heated to at least
>> 55F. So you might be saving about 20%, but what's the point?
>>
>
>Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>
most normal people
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Companies packaging cleansers, other deadly chemicals in bottles that
look like beverage containers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ff8bcb57fc4da17e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 2:01 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jul 2, 2:14 am, balanc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/tag/poison-control/?i=5021330&t=dont-drink-lam...
>
> Don't Drink Lamp Oil Or You'll Die
>
> Just saw this on the TV, lamp oil manufacturers have issued a new
> warning: don't drink lamp oil. It seems someone died after doing so.
> Not sure what the story is, but like other household products, it's
> important to keep them in their proper containers. For instance, some
> colored lamp oils can look like cranberry juice. Here are some other
> poisons and the foods they can look like.

Although this is a valid concern, I'm wondering how big a factor it is
whether the packaging is the same for beverages vs cleaning products
(or poisons). I'm more concerned about labeling that could be
ambiguous or written in a language that isn't understood.
Additionally, I have seen in some stores where non-food items are
merchandised near food aisles.
Back to the lamp oil death though. "Who" would mistake the taste/
texture of "lamp oil" for cranberry juice? Seems a bit fishy to me.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 2:44 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 2, 2:14 am, balanc...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> http://consumerist.com/tag/poison-control/?i=5021330&t=dont-drink-lam...
>>
>> Don't Drink Lamp Oil Or You'll Die
>>
>> Just saw this on the TV, lamp oil manufacturers have issued a new
>> warning: don't drink lamp oil. It seems someone died after doing so.
>> Not sure what the story is, but like other household products, it's
>> important to keep them in their proper containers. For instance, some
>> colored lamp oils can look like cranberry juice. Here are some other
>> poisons and the foods they can look like.
>
> Although this is a valid concern, I'm wondering how big a factor it is
> whether the packaging is the same for beverages vs cleaning products
> (or poisons). I'm more concerned about labeling that could be
> ambiguous or written in a language that isn't understood.
> Additionally, I have seen in some stores where non-food items are
> merchandised near food aisles.
> Back to the lamp oil death though. "Who" would mistake the taste/
> texture of "lamp oil" for cranberry juice? Seems a bit fishy to me.

And you're unlikely to die from a mouthful of lamp oil even if you managed
to swallow it before you realised from the taste that it wasnt juice anyway.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 4:41 pm
From: "Lou"

"Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9921e236-f076-402f-ac65-778823159205@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Although this is a valid concern, I'm wondering how big a factor it is
> whether the packaging is the same for beverages vs cleaning products
> (or poisons). I'm more concerned about labeling that could be
> ambiguous or written in a language that isn't understood.
> Additionally, I have seen in some stores where non-food items are
> merchandised near food aisles.
> Back to the lamp oil death though. "Who" would mistake the taste/
> texture of "lamp oil" for cranberry juice? Seems a bit fishy to me.

I find it hard to imagine that someone could do this as well, but . . .

One of the jobs I had in my late teens and early twenties was delivering
groceries - people would call the store, we'd make up the order, and I'd
drive it out and lug it into the house. One of my customers was the very
old woman - in her seventies or eighties, with a strained, raspy voice. She
told me that, as a child, she'd eaten lye from a can and as you may imagine
it ruined her throat. For her entire life, she had to see a doctor every
few weeks to keep her throat open.

When you see how quickly kids spit out stuff like green beans or peas, it's
hard to believe one would swallow lye, or anyone would swallow lamp oil.
But it happens.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: giving in & buying Microsoft Works for an end to nagging
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/743dfddf6abd7f6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 4:51 pm
From: "Lou"

"Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d05218a6-42e6-479a-a47c-47f753aae147@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>That is true as well. Based on Ohio's original comments I wouldn't
>think they're writing novels or composing great presentations for his
>wife's job, if they were then her employer should spring for the full
>Office package. If you just want documents that can be read in Office
>2007 (which doesn't have much problem reading earlier *.doc files),
>the web or cheap based equivalents should work.

One of the things that doesn't work with Open Office is page headers. The
display, but as separate tables in the body of the document. And when the
document goes back to Word, there aren't any headers. I don't consider page
headers to be particularly exotic.

As to the employer paying for the Office package, maybe that's the way it
should work, but it isn't always the way it does work. Medical writers, for
instance, often work on contract and supply their own tools - computer and
software - much like auto mechanics often supply their own tools, or chefs
use their own knives in restaurant kitchens.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:02 pm
From: "Lou"

"Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply" <samhill@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
message news:486b75e5$0$17169$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Lou wrote:
> >
> > I haven't tried Google apps or Star Office, but someone else mentioned
Open
> > Office, and I have tried that. It's compatible with Microsoft Word -
sorta.
> >
> > It seems that it'll open Word files OK, and for the most part display
them
> > they way you'd expect and if you produce a document using this software,
> > Word opens it and usually displays what you want. The catch is in that
"for
> > the most part" and "usually". Depending on how sophisticated the
document
> > is, there are things that don't port between the two packages correctly.
>
>
> Okay, here's my secret -- save your OO files in Word 6.0 format, not the
> latest Word format. It should convert fine.
>
> Whatever you do, DON'T save it in RTF format -- it doesn't convert well
> for some reason.

And here's the quandary in my profession - rtf format is the standard,
closely followed by .pdf. The .doc format doesn't cut it because it's not
possible to generate in an automated manner (well, strictly speaking, I
suppose it's possible in theory, but you'd have to know the ins and outs of
that proprietary format in order to do it and I've never run across anyone
who does). The reason .rtf doesn't convert well in OO is that the
specification used by OO isn't the same as the specification used by Word
(and I've noticed that Microsoft's RTF specification is freely available on
the web). That would be OK if our customers used OO, but they don't - I've
never had a customer who wanted anything other than Word or PDF.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:18 pm
From: imascot

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in
news:g4e6a1$afo$1@registered.motzarella.org:

>
> "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
> news:g4dn33$lnk$1@aioe.org...
>> For years, I've made do with notepad, then later with Works. Over
>> the
>> past few years, I bought Wordperfect Office X3 for 25 bucks or so,
>> but my wife always complained about how nothing I had on the home PC
>> functioned the same as Microsoft Office (in particular, Word) on the
>> computers at her work. Today as she vociferously complained, she
>> showed me some strange things Wordperfect was doing to her margins on
>> her resume, and she was very frustrated at all the little things it
>> seemed to be changing on its own.
>>
>> I guess I'm going to finally give in and get a copy of Microsoft
>> Office,
>> mostly so she has a recent version of Microsoft Word to use. For my
>> purposes, I'm perfectly happy with the 4.4 Megabyte total size
>> Atlantis Word processor. However, I guess my desire for harmony at
>> home now outweighs my desire to increase competition in the word
>> processing arena. (and to save $100)
>>
>> So, I'm looking for a good deal on a recent version of Microsoft
>> Word, or
>> Microsoft Office. We will need to install it on 3 computers (2
>> desktops, and 1 laptop) So far, this appears to be the best deal I
>> can find:
>>
>> http://www.superdealsoftware.com/product_special_detail.php?s=1&id=211
>> $131 shipped for a 3 computer license and media, Office 2007 home and
>> student
>>
>> Can anyone suggest a better deal, or should I pull the trigger on
>> this?
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> Last time I bought Word, I bought "Works" off of ebay. Got it on DVD.
> The DVD included all of the Works applications, plus a FULL version
> of Microsoft WORD (not the works version), and Microsoft Streets and
> Trips. Got it for $30 *delivered*. No, it's not a pirate version,
> includes the CD Key with Microsoft hologram thingie. Only downside I
> found is, if you want to install Streets and Trips, it INSISTS on
> installing Microsoft Works, even though Microsoft Works is NOT needed
> to run Streets and Trips. That's another reason I know it's legit.
> Only Microsoft would be that fucking stupid. :)
>
>
> Looks like they still got it on ebay, check item 200235755806for an
> example ( not my auction! ) -Dave
>

I second doing this, I have this package myself. The full package includes:

Microsoft Word
Microsoft Works
Microsoft Encarta
Microsoft Money
Microsoft Street & Trips
Microsoft Picture It

Of course, this isn't the most recent version of Word, but for the average user, the only difference is
some bells and whistles, and the usual Microsoft "improvements" that mean commonly needed
functions are now more difficult to access.

Streets and Trips is nice mapping software, and we use it a lot (we're not GPS people). In fact, I
looked into getting a newer version of Streets and Trips, thinking it would include new developments,
etc. I learned that MS has not updated the actual map information since 2002; they merely added
"features". Feh.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Donating blood
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/51be6adc7412e820?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:01 pm
From: "h"

"val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:37ae3adf-49ad-4c5e-a7d7-a3121818b27c@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 30, 9:37 am, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>> "Craig" <w...@invalid.us> wrote in message
>>
>> news:CoV9k.162923$SV4.7770@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> > Greetings,
>>
>> > I just donated pint #84 today. In addition to getting a free ticket to
>> > the top of the Flagstaff AZ's San Francisco Peaks on the ski lift this
>> > summer and being entered into a contest to win a car (plus the usual
>> > check
>> > to make sure I'm not anemic, I don't have HIV or any STD, etc.), I see
>> > that my blood bank also now measures donated blood for total
>> > cholesterol
>> > and will let me check my results online in a few days.
>>
>> > Do we have any blood bank people around? I wonder if the total
>> > cholesterol measurement serves some purpose to the blood banking folks
>> > or
>> > if it's just a service being offered to the donor. Anyone know? From
>> > what
>> > I read, they'll send donors a notice by mail if their total cholesterol
>> > is
>> > 300+ while anything under 300 requires the donor to take the initiative
>> > to
>> > check the BB's web site to check--with a suggestion that donors check
>> > with
>> > their family doc if their test results are over 200.
>>
>> > Craig
>>
>> Worrying about cholesterol is a total croc. When I was a vegan my
>> cholesterol was over 350. At the time, I ate nothing on the list my doc
>> gave
>> me to "cut out" of my diet. Once I went back to a sane diet of almost no
>> carbs and mostly protein and fat (virtually everything on the "cut out "
>> list), my cholesterol dropped to 165, with no other changes in lifestyle.
>> Frankly, I couldn't care less what my cholesterol level is and I have no
>> idea since I haven't seen adoctorsince my 20s, some30yearsago. Doctors
>> don't know anything.
>
> Ever thought about your psa score?
>
> Let me remind you of a friend who also boasted that he hadn't been to
> a doctor in 25 years - and died in bed one night - coronary - widow
> still angry that he might have prevented his untimely death.

Umm, since I'm female, psa score not exactly high on my list of worries.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Women love it.Women want it.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a89806670f7645db?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 4:59 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Jul 2, 2:45 pm, David <david7...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
> Women love it.Women want it.

A fat woman came into the shoe store today. Wanted a pair of shoes for
a Christmas party. I told her to stand on her hands, put a star in her
butt and go as the world's largest, ugliest tree!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: O.T. protect your pets from fireworks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/068b8188f4659960?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:06 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Jul 2, 10:27 am, "Mr.SmartyPants" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com>
wrote:
> yes, many pets run off around the 4th of July, some never to return.
> Protect them from the noise!
> --
> If guns are out-lawed. Only the Out-laws & politicians will have guns.

I know this is true, but much of it is learned from the owners.
I took care of a friend's retriever over the 4th a couple years ago.
Sara as always afraid of fireworks and would be nervous and run under
the bed or to the basement. It was not my plan, but I took her for a
walk and some kids started setting off firecrackers within 30-40 feet
as we went by. I never flinched as I have heard everything too many
times. Sara's head never turned in their direction. The same non
reaction occurred at night when the sky was lighted up with displays.
If my friend had been home, she would have passed on all sorts of
clues that the dog should be afraid.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:32 pm
From: Marsha

Al Bundy wrote:
> I know this is true, but much of it is learned from the owners.
> I took care of a friend's retriever over the 4th a couple years ago.
> Sara as always afraid of fireworks and would be nervous and run under
> the bed or to the basement. It was not my plan, but I took her for a
> walk and some kids started setting off firecrackers within 30-40 feet
> as we went by. I never flinched as I have heard everything too many
> times. Sara's head never turned in their direction. The same non
> reaction occurred at night when the sky was lighted up with displays.
> If my friend had been home, she would have passed on all sorts of
> clues that the dog should be afraid.

Pets pick up signals from their owners - owner nervous, pet nervous.
This is how we trained our lab (who was not socialized at all) to go on
walks. Walk tall and proud, and dog picks up on your confidence and
feels secure. If anything distracting happens, ignore it and just keep
moving forward. It may take a few times, but it works.

Marsha

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
> Al Bundy wrote:
>> I know this is true, but much of it is learned from the owners.
>> I took care of a friend's retriever over the 4th a couple years ago.
>> Sara as always afraid of fireworks and would be nervous and run under
>> the bed or to the basement. It was not my plan, but I took her for a
>> walk and some kids started setting off firecrackers within 30-40 feet
>> as we went by. I never flinched as I have heard everything too many
>> times. Sara's head never turned in their direction. The same non
>> reaction occurred at night when the sky was lighted up with displays.
>> If my friend had been home, she would have passed on all sorts of
>> clues that the dog should be afraid.

> Pets pick up signals from their owners - owner nervous, pet nervous.

And plenty of pets whose owners dont give a damn
about fireworks or anything else are afraid of fireworks.

> This is how we trained our lab (who was not socialized at all) to go
> on walks. Walk tall and proud, and dog picks up on your confidence
> and feels secure. If anything distracting happens, ignore it and
> just keep moving forward. It may take a few times, but it works.

Doesnt work with fireworks.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:13 pm
From: Marsha

Rod Speed wrote:
> Doesnt work with fireworks.
>

Same principle, but yes it does. I'm not going to argue with you.

Marsha/Ohio

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:23 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote
>>> Al Bundy wrote

>>>> I know this is true, but much of it is learned from the owners.
>>>> I took care of a friend's retriever over the 4th a couple years ago.
>>>> Sara as always afraid of fireworks and would be nervous and run under
>>>> the bed or to the basement. It was not my plan, but I took her for a
>>>> walk and some kids started setting off firecrackers within 30-40 feet
>>>> as we went by. I never flinched as I have heard everything too many
>>>> times. Sara's head never turned in their direction. The same non
>>>> reaction occurred at night when the sky was lighted up with displays.
>>>> If my friend had been home, she would have passed on all sorts of
>>>> clues that the dog should be afraid.

>>> Pets pick up signals from their owners - owner nervous, pet nervous.

>> And plenty of pets whose owners dont give a damn
>> about fireworks or anything else are afraid of fireworks.

>>> This is how we trained our lab (who was not socialized at all) to go
>>> on walks. Walk tall and proud, and dog picks up on your confidence
>>> and feels secure. If anything distracting happens, ignore it and
>>> just keep moving forward. It may take a few times, but it works.

>> Doesnt work with fireworks.

> Same principle,

Nope, because the pet's reaction to the fireworks has nothing to do with the pet owner's reaction.

> but yes it does.

Nope.

> I'm not going to argue with you.

Wouldnt change a thing even if you did attempt that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Omega Constellation 95 1297.15, Best Luxury Watch - www.luxury-gift.org
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2d392341d43911d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:23 pm
From: yxs080@gmail.com

Omega Constellation 95 1297.15, Best Luxury Watch - www.luxury-gift.org

Luxury Gift : http://www.luxury-gift.org
Omgea Watches : http://www.luxury-gift.org//omgea-watches.html
Omega Constellation 95 1297.15 Link :
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Omega Constellation 95 1297.15 Information :
Brand : Omgea Watches
Series : Constellation 95
Code : 1297.15
Gender : Ladies
Case Material : Stainless Steel & Gold
Dial Color : Champagne
Bracelet Strap : Steel & Gold
Movement : Automatic
Clasp Type : Push Button Foldover Clasp
Bezel : Fixed
Crystal : Scratch Resistant Sapphire
Case Back : Solid
Case Diameter : 27.5mm
Case Thickness : 8.8mm
Water Resistant : 30m

18KT yellow gold and stainless steel case and bracelet. Bracelet has
full gold bar between links, Diamond bezel, Champagne dial with
diamond hour markers, Date at 3.

Omega Constellation 95 1297.15 Link :
http://www.luxury-gift.org/Watches/omega-watch-1899.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Omega Double Eagle Chronometer Mid-Size 1501.30, Best Luxury Watch -

www.luxury-gift.org
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c4e72adbadab7c6a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:23 pm
From: yxs080@gmail.com

Omega Double Eagle Chronometer Mid-Size 1501.30, Best Luxury Watch -
www.luxury-gift.org

Luxury Gift : http://www.luxury-gift.org
Omgea Watches : http://www.luxury-gift.org//omgea-watches.html
Omega Double Eagle Chronometer Mid-Size 1501.30 Link :
http://www.luxury-gift.org/Watches/omega-watch-1699.html

Omega Double Eagle Chronometer Mid-Size 1501.30 Information :
Brand : Omgea Watches
Series : Double Eagle Chronometer Mid-Size
Code : 1501.30
Gender : Mens
Case Material : Stainless Steel
Dial Color : Silver
Bracelet Strap : Stainless Steel
Movement : Automatic Chronometer
Clasp Type : Push Button Foldover Clasp
Bezel : Fixed
Crystal : Anti-Reflective Scratch Resistant Sapphire
Case Back : Transparent
Case Diameter : 35mm
Case Thickness : 11mm
Water Resistant : 100m/330ft.

Stainless steel case and bracelet, Displays date at 3, Co-Axial
escapement movement, Aprox. 44 hour power reserve.

Omega Double Eagle Chronometer Mid-Size 1501.30 Link :
http://www.luxury-gift.org/Watches/omega-watch-1699.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chopard Imperiale 38/3225-23, Best Luxury Watch - www.luxury-gift.org
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef50b0f412aa68bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:26 pm
From: yxs082@gmail.com

Chopard Imperiale 38/3225-23, Best Luxury Watch - www.luxury-gift.org

Luxury Gift : http://www.luxury-gift.org
Chopard Watches : http://www.luxury-gift.org//chopard-watches.html
Chopard Imperiale 38/3225-23 Link :
http://www.luxury-gift.org/Watches/chopard-watch-632.html

Chopard Imperiale 38/3225-23 Information :
Brand : Chopard Watches
Series : Imperiale
Code : 38/3225-23
Gender : Ladies
Case Material : 18kt White Gold
Dial Color : Silver - White
Bracelet Strap : 18kt White Gold
Movement : Automatic Chronograph
Clasp Type : Tang Buckle
Bezel : Fixed
Crystal : Scratch Resistant Sapphire
Case Back : Solid
Case Diameter : 32.00mm
Case Thickness : 8.4mm
Water Resistant : 30m/100ft.

Solid 18KT Wite Gold Case & Bracelet, White Dial with Silver Sub-
Dials. 7 Sapphire Cabachons on Buttons & Lugs. Automatic
Chronograph.

Chopard Imperiale 38/3225-23 Link :
http://www.luxury-gift.org/Watches/chopard-watch-632.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dolce Gabbana Sunglasses SG_DG030 - www.luxury-gift.org
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a65c60d6ce7f2f2b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:26 pm
From: yxs082@gmail.com

Dolce Gabbana Sunglasses SG_DG030 - www.luxury-gift.org

Luxury Gift : http://www.luxury-gift.org
Dolce Gabbana sunglasses : http://www.luxury-gift.org/Sun-Glasses/Dolce-Gabbana-sunglasses.html
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http://www.luxury-gift.org/Sun-Glasses/Dolce_Gabbana_Sunglasses_SG_DG030.html

Dolce Gabbana Sunglasses SG_DG030 Information :

Brand : Dolce Gabbana sunglasses
Code : SG_DG030
Description : fashion Dolce Gabbana Sunglasses

SAME AS PICTURE2008 new arrivel fashion Dolce Gabbana sunglasses and
welcome to wholesale2 Pair 39.USD /1PC6 pair 32.USD /1PC12 pair
24.USD /1PC

Dolce Gabbana Sunglasses Link :
http://www.luxury-gift.org/Watches/Dolce_Gabbana_Sunglasses_SG_DG030.html

==============================================================================

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25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 8g^N' Rich or Stupid? 8g^N'kT
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2836060d37990bd5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 1 2008 10:18 pm
From: "BLAZON"

Must Read Book:

"Will The Next Liar Please Stand Up"

http://www.SoupNaziSecrets.com/ng2.html

<`>[UH<UIMj<^6\

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 2:14 am
From: balanco01@yahoo.com

http://consumerist.com/tag/poison-control/?i=5021330&t=dont-drink-lamp-oil-or-youll-die

Don't Drink Lamp Oil Or You'll Die

Just saw this on the TV, lamp oil manufacturers have issued a new
warning: don't drink lamp oil. It seems someone died after doing so.
Not sure what the story is, but like other household products, it's
important to keep them in their proper containers. For instance, some
colored lamp oils can look like cranberry juice. Here are some other
poisons and the foods they can look like.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:11 am
From: tmclone@searchmachine.com

On Jul 2, 5:14 am, balanc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/tag/poison-control/?i=5021330&t=dont-drink-lam...
>
> Don't Drink Lamp Oil Or You'll Die
>
> Just saw this on the TV, lamp oil manufacturers have issued a new
> warning: don't drink lamp oil. It seems someone died after doing so.
> Not sure what the story is, but like other household products, it's
> important to keep them in their proper containers. For instance, some
> colored lamp oils can look like cranberry juice. Here are some other
> poisons and the foods they can look like.

And in other news, water is wet. I'm so sick of this "foam pad the
world"
mentality. Some moronic mistakes should be fatal, preferably before
the
deceased has had a chance to add more "stupid" to the gene pool. We
have
enough of that already.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:43 am
From: Vandy Terre

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 06:11:23 -0700 (PDT), tmclone@searchmachine.com wrote:

>On Jul 2, 5:14 am, balanc...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> http://consumerist.com/tag/poison-control/?i=5021330&t=dont-drink-lam...
>>
>> Don't Drink Lamp Oil Or You'll Die
>>
>> Just saw this on the TV, lamp oil manufacturers have issued a new
>> warning: don't drink lamp oil. It seems someone died after doing so.
>> Not sure what the story is, but like other household products, it's
>> important to keep them in their proper containers. For instance, some
>> colored lamp oils can look like cranberry juice. Here are some other
>> poisons and the foods they can look like.
>
>And in other news, water is wet. I'm so sick of this "foam pad the
>world"
>mentality. Some moronic mistakes should be fatal, preferably before
>the
>deceased has had a chance to add more "stupid" to the gene pool. We
>have
>enough of that already.

Okay, I agree this 'foam pad the world mentality' is getting old. But maybe it
is needed.

No longer do multiple generations live in one home and pass information to each
other.

No longer do small families only have a half dozen children, with the older
children helping with the care of the younger and the younger in turn helping
with the offspring of older siblings.

No longer do poisonous/ toxic substances come in textured bottles so that at a
touch a person knows to be cautious. I am not event sure the old 'skull and
crossbones' poison warning is on all the products it really should be. I know
my children did not have the symbol drilled into them as a warning of danger in
public school. I taught it to them, but it is not on all it should be.

With the advent of birth control devices being readily available, family size
has decreased. Many children are strongly encouraged to move out at age
eighteen or before. The nuclear family is now a rare thing. Safety measures
that were once taught by living in a large, multi-generation family are
forgotten. Social pressure on families that try to keep multi-generations
together is near unbearable.

Manufacturers have developed the means to attract customers with pretty
containers and no longer understand that pretty can be deadly. Income is the
driving force, not customer safety. Legally, the manufacturer can label a
product and/ or container as dangerous so as to avoid responsibility.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:34 am
From: Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply

Lou wrote:
>
> I haven't tried Google apps or Star Office, but someone else mentioned Open
> Office, and I have tried that. It's compatible with Microsoft Word - sorta.
>
> It seems that it'll open Word files OK, and for the most part display them
> they way you'd expect and if you produce a document using this software,
> Word opens it and usually displays what you want. The catch is in that "for
> the most part" and "usually". Depending on how sophisticated the document
> is, there are things that don't port between the two packages correctly.

Okay, here's my secret -- save your OO files in Word 6.0 format, not the
latest Word format. It should convert fine.

Whatever you do, DON'T save it in RTF format -- it doesn't convert well
for some reason.

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:15 am
From: "Bill"

It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!

For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families
into one house. Then each pays half.

Might want to start making friends with that mother-in-law...

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:27 am
From: "Dave"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6d1dc7FbbjqU1@mid.individual.net...
> It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!
>
> For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families
> into one house. Then each pays half.

How would that help? You'd still need the other house heated to at least
55F. So you might be saving about 20%, but what's the point?

That is, unless you are going to shut off the water in the other
ouse. -Dave

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:45 am
From: "Bill"

"Dave" wrote in message
>
> "Bill" wrote in message
>> It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!
>>
>> For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families
>> into one house. Then each pays half.
>
> How would that help? You'd still need the other house heated to at least
> 55F. So you might be saving about 20%, but what's the point?
>
> That is, unless you are going to shut off the water in the other
> use. -Dave
>

Yes, turn off the water in the other house and "winterize" it.

Winterizing a house...
http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/winterizefireman.htm

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:58 am
From: "h"

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:g4fvng$b8m$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6d1dc7FbbjqU1@mid.individual.net...
>> It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!
>>
>> For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families
>> into one house. Then each pays half.
>
> How would that help? You'd still need the other house heated to at least
> 55F. So you might be saving about 20%, but what's the point?
>

Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:23 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <6d1dc7FbbjqU1@mid.individual.net>, "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!
>
>For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families
>into one house. Then each pays half.
>
>Might want to start making friends with that mother-in-law...

My brother started using electric last year. I know the electric prices will also be going up shortly.
At least electric enables you to heat the area its needed.

greg

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 8:35 am
From: "Dave"

>>
>
> Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?

Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can die
of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 8:47 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org>, "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>
>> Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>
>Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can die
>of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave
>
I really don't like it below 70 unless I'm sleeping. Sometimes thats even
hard for older folks. If I'm home watching TV after dinner, its got to be at least 73.

I go camping outside in the 40's. It's usually in the summer on those extra cold nights when you least expect it.

I have plenty of trees in the back yard. i do plan on putting the wood/coal stove back
in the garage. I do have an extra stove brick chimney attached to the house but
its in a poor location. Someday I will have to connect up a stove.

greg

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 8:21 am
From: Ann

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:45:10 -0700, Bill wrote:

> "Dave" wrote in message
>>
>> "Bill" wrote in message
>>> It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!
>>>
>>> For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two
>>> families into one house. Then each pays half.
>>
>> How would that help? You'd still need the other house heated to at
>> least 55F. So you might be saving about 20%, but what's the point?
>>
>> That is, unless you are going to shut off the water in the other use.
>> -Dave
>>
>>
> Yes, turn off the water in the other house and "winterize" it.
>
> Winterizing a house...
> http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/winterizefireman.htm

Another thing to consider for an unheated house is ventilation. I know
people who decided to save money by turning off the heat while they
were away during the winter. They did fine protecting both the supply
and drainage lines, but closed he house up tight. They came back to a very
musty house, including inside the outer walls.

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 9:45 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>
>
>>>
>>
>> Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>
>
> Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you
> can die of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave

h is the same guy who claims he hasn't seen a doctor in 30 years because
they don't know anything. He also believes there is no difference in
taste between Frozen vs. fresh food & believers a 350 cholesterol count
is no problem.

He's either the newest roll to the group or the dumbest poster yet
(beating even Rod).

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 9:49 am
From: clams_casino

GregS wrote:

>In article <g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org>, "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>>Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>>>
>>>
>>Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can die
>>of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave
>>
>>
>>
>I really don't like it below 70 unless I'm sleeping. Sometimes thats even
>hard for older folks. If I'm home watching TV after dinner, its got to be at least 73.
>
>I go camping outside in the 40's. It's usually in the summer on those extra cold nights when you least expect it.
>
>I have plenty of trees in the back yard. i do plan on putting the wood/coal stove back
>in the garage. I do have an extra stove brick chimney attached to the house but
>its in a poor location. Someday I will have to connect up a stove.
>
>greg
>
>

67 during the day & 62 at night are our preferred winter settings

It was 68 this morning & thought I was going to die during my early
morning walk.

Up to 80 right now & hate the thought of going outside later today.

Our current summer settings are 73 at night & 75 during the day.

How does anyone stand 90? 80 is bad enough.

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 11:44 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <3kOak.6929$3q7.4543@newsfe15.lga>, clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>GregS wrote:
>
>>In article <g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org>, "Dave" <noway@nohow.not>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can die
>>>of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I really don't like it below 70 unless I'm sleeping. Sometimes thats even
>>hard for older folks. If I'm home watching TV after dinner, its got to be at
> least 73.
>>
>>I go camping outside in the 40's. It's usually in the summer on those extra
> cold nights when you least expect it.
>>
>>I have plenty of trees in the back yard. i do plan on putting the wood/coal
> stove back
>>in the garage. I do have an extra stove brick chimney attached to the house
> but
>>its in a poor location. Someday I will have to connect up a stove.
>>
>>greg
>>
>>
>
>
>67 during the day & 62 at night are our preferred winter settings
>
>It was 68 this morning & thought I was going to die during my early
>morning walk.
>
>Up to 80 right now & hate the thought of going outside later today.
>
>Our current summer settings are 73 at night & 75 during the day.
>
>How does anyone stand 90? 80 is bad enough.

I started to sweat just thinking about it. I just hate hunidity. If I'm working 70 is too hot
with high humidity. I built my deck last summer and ther were many 95 days.
I remember the day it hit 117 in Barstow and I went 20 feet from the house to the car
and just made it.

greg

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 11:45 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Bill <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote

> It seems heating oil prices for next winter are going through the roof!

Anyone with a clue stopped using oil for house heating LONG ago, fool.

> For those who can't pay, one way to survive this is to move two families into one house. Then each pays half.

Makes much more sense to just hang yourself instead.

> Might want to start making friends with that mother-in-law...

Makes much more sense to just hang yourself instead.

Dont make a mess of the carpet.

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 12:01 pm
From: "Brad Naylor"

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:g4g76q$lf1$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>
>>>
>>
>> Who heats their house to more than 55F-60F now?
>
> Anybody who doesn't want to freeze to death. You are aware that you can
> die of exposure at 55F, right? -Dave

Generations of Eskimos make you wonder about that.

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 1:40 pm
From: Jeff

The best way to save is insulating, weatherizing and only heating
what is needed.

I'm not too worried myself. I was a third solar last year and I
should be a third or so more this winter. Fusion power at it's best!

Jeff

>
> Might want to start making friends with that mother-in-law...
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: rfpFAQ Availability
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/984c08844df6a187?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 6:19 am
From: SCUBApix

The rec.food.preserving FAQ is available at http://rfpfaq.jaclu.com/rfpFAQ.htm.
There have been no changes since the last announcement. See the
difference file for details. We are now at Version 4.2.11 (last
updated 8/5/07).

A detailed, chronological ordering of changes to the FAQ can be found
at http://rfpfaq.jaclu.com/differences.htm .

This is the monthly posting of the availablility of the FAQ.

You may also download a single text file of the FAQ. Just start at the
above place (rfpFAQ.htm) and you will see a link for download where it
talks about the 'differences' file. The new text file opens in your
browser and then you just click 'file' and 'save as' and you should
have it.

Let me know if there are any difficulties

==============================================================================
TOPIC: )6P'$ Get-Rich-Quick Cons BEWARE )6P'$yy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aab7ea43e5468442?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 5:13 am
From: "Miller"

Must Read Book:

"Will The Next Liar Please Stand Up"

http://www.SoupNaziSecrets.com/ng2.html

HMuKM]hJ4x\Wpi9

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 7:27 am
From: "Mr.SmartyPants"

yes, many pets run off around the 4th of July, some never to return.
Protect them from the noise!
--
If guns are out-lawed. Only the Out-laws & politicians will have guns.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 10:31 am
From: val189

On Jun 30, 9:37 am, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> "Craig" <w...@invalid.us> wrote in message
>
> news:CoV9k.162923$SV4.7770@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> > Greetings,
>
> > I just donated pint #84 today. In addition to getting a free ticket to
> > the top of the Flagstaff AZ's San Francisco Peaks on the ski lift this
> > summer and being entered into a contest to win a car (plus the usual check
> > to make sure I'm not anemic, I don't have HIV or any STD, etc.), I see
> > that my blood bank also now measures donated blood for total cholesterol
> > and will let me check my results online in a few days.
>
> > Do we have any blood bank people around? I wonder if the total
> > cholesterol measurement serves some purpose to the blood banking folks or
> > if it's just a service being offered to the donor. Anyone know? From what
> > I read, they'll send donors a notice by mail if their total cholesterol is
> > 300+ while anything under 300 requires the donor to take the initiative to
> > check the BB's web site to check--with a suggestion that donors check with
> > their family doc if their test results are over 200.
>
> > Craig
>
> Worrying about cholesterol is a total croc. When I was a vegan my
> cholesterol was over 350. At the time, I ate nothing on the list my doc gave
> me to "cut out" of my diet. Once I went back to a sane diet of almost no
> carbs and mostly protein and fat (virtually everything on the "cut out "
> list), my cholesterol dropped to 165, with no other changes in lifestyle.
> Frankly, I couldn't care less what my cholesterol level is and I have no
> idea since I haven't seen adoctorsince my 20s, some30yearsago. Doctors
> don't know anything.

Ever thought about your psa score?

Let me remind you of a friend who also boasted that he hadn't been to
a doctor in 25 years - and died in bed one night - coronary - widow
still angry that he might have prevented his untimely death.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 11:45 am
From: David

Women love it.Women want it.
http://www.rare-diamonds-gallery.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: &T>j; Rich or Stupid? &T>j;,6
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c8aa2032d2c578de?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 12:10 pm
From: "Kolar"

Must Read Book:

"Will The Next Liar Please Stand Up"

http://www.SoupNaziSecrets.com/ng2.html

.w>>K8/EHFl0]@i

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Wednesday, July 2, 2008

26 new messages in 10 topics - digest

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest