Frugal Living: Mar 4, 2008

Tuesday, March 4, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: What's your monthly grocery spending?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0abb53d245c656d6?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 6:14 pm
From: Marsha

clams_casino wrote:

> Al Bundy wrote:
>> Please give us a clue as to what you are eating for $1.50 per
>> person. I spend more than your grocery budget just for myself.
>>

> That might just cover the TP, soap & washing detergent in our home.
>
> $180/mo comes out to 50 cents/person per meal.
>
> I'm not sure I could prepare 240 portions of soup for $180 (2x/day x 4
> people) without using a lot of water.

It doesn't look that difficult to me. If you have the time to plan
ahead, have freezer space, and don't use convenience meals, you can have
healthy balanced meals on a reasonable budget. Leave out the sodas,
expensive cereals, etc.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/424117/how_to_feed_a_family_of_four_on_200.html

Marsha

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 6:16 pm
From: Jeff

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
> news:_Ohzj.7991$XO4.1166@newsfe19.lga...
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>
>>> i can tell you that we spend 100/mon just on dairy & eggs.
>
>> Have you noticed the price of eggs lately?
>>
>> A year ago, we were paying $1.50/dozen at the grocer ($0.99 at Walmart).
>> Yesterday I noticed $2.59 for large eggs at the grocer.
>
> 2.75/doz for organic free range (not just cage free; they actually get to
> run
> all over outside) from my amish farmer. really orange yolks.

Are you buying directly from the farmer?

How much is the milk, how are you buying that?

It's been a couple years since I bought Amish produce (when I was taken
care of Mom in Ohio). But we used to go often and buy from some we got
to know pretty well. Eggs were about .80/dz and 10 gallons of raw milk
was about $10.00. I always thought the prices were pretty good, maybe
they just liked us english.

Even back then they complained about the price of energy. A lot of
people don't realize that they (even the very conservative) use quite a
bit of kerosene, gasoline and diesel. They just use it back at the barn
or house (kerosene). All the Amish I knew had stationary farm machinery.
I've since met Amish that live relatively modern lives (trucks and
digital cameras), I guess it depends on the local clan what you are allowed.

Jeff

>
> after sitting down and thinking;
>
> every 3 wks: 200 at the far away health food store
> 60 with my amish farmer for eggs & dairy
> weeks 1&2 total 100 at the nearby health food store for produce, milk
> (this incls 40 for csa during the
> summer)
>
> 360/3=120wk 120*52=6240yr = 520/calendar mon for produce and dairy
> add in about 100/mon for bf, cx. pork, turkey, tuna.
>
> so i guess we spend about 600-650/mon for the 2 of us. we don't eat out
> all that often, maybe 2x/month, usually breakfast. so round it up to
> 700/mon. this does include cleaning supplies and personal care items, but
> not paper products.
>
> expensive, i know. and i cook from scratch. speaking of which, my bean
> soup is whining at me. :)
>
> i'd like to put in a garden, but i'd guess that all the hoodlums will steal
> from it when prices start to rise. i've got no way to protect it.
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 6:38 pm
From: Jeff

Al Bundy wrote:
>
> OhioGuy wrote:
>> I just read an article which stated that the average family of 4 here in
>> the USA spends $900 a month on groceries, plus more on eating out at
>> restaurants.
>>
>> I was shocked! Is this true?
>>
>>
>> We have a family of 4, and our grocery budget is only $180 a month. Until
>> last month, it was $160 a month, but we had to raise it a bit because many
>> food prices have gone up 20 to 30% in the past year.
>>
>> I know that most folks would consider me frugal, but I had no idea we were
>> getting by on 20% of what the average similar sized family was spending.
>>
>> How much do you spend on groceries a month?
>
> Please give us a clue as to what you are eating for $1.50 per
> person. I spend more than your grocery budget just for myself.

Well, I suppose a lot depends on how you buy. I've been eating a lot
of chicken lately at about .50/lb for a 10 pound bag. Usually I can find
some in season veggie I can get for under a $1/pound. I only buy fruit
in season, which drives the cost down and the quality up (.39/lb peaches
are much better than $1.50 /lb, a $2 watermellon is always better than a
$10 watermellon). Add a cheap starch (rice, pasta or potatoes) and you
can can, if you wish, eat well for not much money. Still $1.50 a day is
pretty cheap, it doesn't leave any room for extravagances.

Now, if you are buying prepared foods, and buying out of season, all
bets are off. The surprising thing is how much grains have risen in
cost. Well not so surprising with corn for ethanol demand, what a fiasco
that is.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Property tax: was How Will You All Adapt to $4.00 per gallon gasoline?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27e47bb40833e110?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 6:40 pm
From:

In article <47cd0f7a$0$6127$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, <h> says...
>
> <josh@phred.org> wrote in message
> news:MPG.223685de13813323989819@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>
> >
> > Sure, our public schools could be more efficiently run, but do you
> > really want to live with the results of abandoning universal education?
> >
> Why should universal education be free? If "parents" can't pay to educate
> their kids and cope with getting them to school, they shouldn't be allowed
> to retain custody. They should lose custody immediately and permanently, and
> the kids should be adopted out. Besides, with the world popluation nearing 7
> billion no one should have more than one child anyway. That's a law I would
> love to see, and I would be thrilled if it could be enforced (tubal ligation
> performed immediately after every childbirth).

Given that any effort to enforce such a law in the U.S. would result in
widespread armed insurrection and the collapse of whatever government
was attempting to enforce the law, I think it's fair to disregard this
as a meaningful contribution to the discussion.

Within the realm of political reality, what alternatives do we have for
universal education, assuming we continue to recognize procreation as a
fundamental human right?

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:20 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <v2ers39k68agp8pigf86jfl4k941m9fpfb@4ax.com>,
Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:02:27 -0500, Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > That's the problem with the American educational system,
> >not enough is being invested to hire good teachers, and the
> >certification process is far too onerous and turns off good people
> >toward other careers.
>
> Agreed, that is one problem. The other is that the deadwood is not
> pruned like it is in most successful businesses. There are plenty of
> marginal teachers coasting on the public dime. Thank the unions,
> mostly.

Unions deserve some credit for sheltering ineffective teachers; however,
so does the economy. One reason ineffective teachers are not booted out
of the classroom before they earn tenure is that there is severe glut of
people willing to go into the teaching professions due to poorly
competitive pay scales. As a result, many school districts, especially
in impoverished school districts don't have the budget to attract more
and better teachers.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:24 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <3aSyj.22739$y05.13636@newsfe22.lga>,
clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

> Logan Shaw wrote:
>
> > clams_casino wrote:
> >
> >> Average teacher salaries in our state are the highest in the nation
> >> when adjusted for the local cost of living. When pointed out to the
> >> local teacher's union, the reply has been that the US average is too
> >> low, not that the local teachers ($54k in 2005) are paid too much.
> >> Meanwhile, the teachers are on strike yet again. It's not uncommon
> >> for teachers here to be getting $70k/yr
> >
> >
> > Even though I think unions are, by and large, dumb and outdated, I
> > agree with the teachers' union in this case. Education is sort of
> > important, partly because it makes better citizens and better human
> > beings, and partly because without it, our economy is sunk, especially
> > with globalization where we now have to compete with other countries
> > more and more. And yet we pay teachers a lot less than other
> > professionals.
>
>
> Name a few (compared on an hourly basis). Certainly not a typical /
> average engineer, chemist or IT professional, for example..

That's easy. Just off the top of my head, the starting salary of a
retail harmacist, actuary, many accountants, the private practice
lawyer, pro sports player get a lot more in total compensation than the
typical teacher earns the first year out of school and for several years
thereafter. I am sure other people can come up with other examples.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:30 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <fqicpi$ioo$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:

> >
> > You saying the puppet in the white house is billions of years old? Or
> > perhaps you think he's got a time machine? That puppet in the white house
> > has no control over the dwindling supply of a non-renewable asset,
> > oron. -Dave
>
> If that is true then I assume we can expect you to not complain if the
> price of fuel doesn't drop under the next President...a Democrat.
>
> TMT
>
> (my reply)
>
> I might complain, but i wont bitch about the president not doing his job, as
> I know he is powerless. -Dave

What I expect when Obama is president next year is for the price of gas
not to increase as fast as it has under the current president during his
presidency.

It is foolish to expect any president to put forward policies that
significantly reduce the price of gas. On the other hand, it is
reasonable to expect our president to put forward an economic policy
that bolsters the value of the American dollar abroad and puts us on a
more even playing field with other nations as far as trade is concerned.
This is something President Bush has done an incredibly bad job of
doing. The plummeting value of our dollar on world markets is proof of
Bush's failed economic policy.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:39 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <13spcn039skjdc7@corp.supernews.com>,
Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

> Dave C. wrote:
> >>> Again, the president has no influence over events that happened way back
> >>> before recorded history. Oil was formed. Oil is being used faster than
> > it
> >>> can reform. Oil therefore will run out. Soon. -Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Thanks for proving you are totally naive.
> >>
> >> Hint - Oil consumption & limited supply does not account for the massive
> >> increase in price since GW was placed in office.
> >
> > You're like somebody worrying that a plane is going to crash and kill him,
> > while standing on the railroad tracks oblivious to the oncoming train. By
> > the time you get a clue..
> >
> > Look moron, if GW has done something to influence the price of oil,
>
> Forget Peak Oil for a bit, we'll get to it later...
>
> Everything he has done has influenced the price of oil.
>
> W has driven down the value of the dollar, remember that oil is priced
> in dollars. That is maybe $30/barrel. Did you know that one of the
> reasons for the Iraq war was the Saddam wanted to move off the dollar
> standard?
>
> Oil is traded on the futures market. Uncertainty raises the cost of
> futures contracts. That is somewhere between $15 and $30/barrel
>
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_11/b3975011.htm
>
> Oil is a commodity and is dependent on supply and demand. So what has
> happened to the country with second largest reserves in the world, Iraq?
> It's stalled below pre invasion levels. Currently that is 2 million bpd.
> As far as the their reserves, they have been damaged by post invasion
> policies with seawater seeping into the southern fields.
>
> What about talking the Saudis into ramping up production. George W
> Bush famously remarked (December 1999) that he would jawbone OPEC. Funny
> how oil was at $27/barrel at the time. The Saudis are laughing at W now.
> No one has any incentive to do anything to please the US. And why should
> W care, Exxon once again posted a record quarterly profit.
>
> Now, let's look at Peak Oil, exactly what has George W Bush done to
> lower the future consumption of the US? We're not at peak oil yet
> (probably another decade or so), but the hope for the future is just as
> mired as the Mideast Peace policy.
>
> At every possible Y in the road George W Bush has taken the path that
> has made *tripling* the price of oil possible.

Exactly. What these Bush apologists fail to realize (or admit) is,
Bush's puppet master Tricky Dick Cheney lobbied congress to increase the
tax on foreign oil imports. Tricky Dick's reasoning was that his bosses,
the Texas oil barrens couldn't make a profit if they had to compete with
the lower prices of foreign oil if congress didn't impose an oil tariff.
Congress didn't impose an oil tariff, so Tricky Dick hooked up with the
Shrub to destabilize the Middle East oil market. The Texas oil barrens
have benefitted handsomely by having control of the White House by proxy
through Cheney and Bush. Every time Bush says anything about the
economy, the price per barrel of oil goes up. That is no accident.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best credit card for international purchases
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e7989ff39fb02022?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 6:39 pm
From: "John Weiss"

"George L Smyth" <OneMinuteHowTo@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> Bank of America (my bank) has an arrangement with Barclays, which is
> good. However, once well outside of Glasgow it appears that Perth and
> Inverness are the only other places they have machines. I'd rather
> not carry a large amount of money with me, so while these will be
> helpful, it looks like a credit card will be very helpful. If I can
> figure out which card will be most exchange-fee-friendly then that
> will allow me to fill in those times between the two locations.

Equivalent grades of Visa and Master Card are essentially the same with
respect to access and fee structure. A "Platinum" card may have a lower
network fee (e.g., 0.8% vs 1.0%). If you're shopping for a card, you'll
have to ask each bank about each version of each card you apply/qualify
for, because the agreements can vary a bit (or a lot).

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:16 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<cd79a977-a4ce-4112-8c7c-1c60047702fa@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
GLSmyth <george.smyth@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am going to be traveling to Scotland this summer, and expect to pay
> for most of my expenses by using a credit card. However, I do not
> know whether or not my card offers the best deal as far as exchange
> rate, transaction fees, etc., is concerned. I would be fine getting a
> card for the single purpose of using on the trip if I knew somewhere
> that would give me a comparison of these variables, but have not been
> able to find this information.
>
> Any suggestions on cards or where I can go to find a comparison would
> be very helpful.

You should check the web site called http://www.bankrate.com which is
highly recommended by Consumer Reports for people who are shopping for a
credit card or other bank services. This web site is a great resource
for comparing the benefits and costs of various credit cards.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TEPHLON-coated drum
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f48415e45c510b05?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 6:54 pm
From: Charles van Blommestein

I have bought a new Electric rice cooker tonight. I bought the
Procotor Silex 10 cup unit (I normally cook for only myself.)
This unit has a Tephlon-coated removeable drum for cooking rice.
*My ultimate goal was to buy a replacement unit for the 12 cup Tiger
brand unit that burned out it's heater core, last week. - I also
shopped for a unit that will allow me to steam veggies while cooking
the rice.
%This unit has no steaming "basket", per-se.

I am wondering how "safe"; if so I am to cook any food with the
coating of tephlon inside this drum.
I know that tephlon is SUPPOSED TO provide a non-stick surface.
I am just concerned with how SECURE this tephlon is coated on the
inside of this drum to withstand the certain scrubbing I will need to
do when I wash (clean) it.
And how "valuable" will this tephlon coating provide with only the
expected rice I cook in it?
Thanks for opinions.

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TOPIC: Removing non-stick coating to salvage a pan?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/609894c6db4e02d3?hl=en
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== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 6:56 pm
From: jt august

In article <13sqsu7oben1n88@corp.supernews.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't wash wooden salad bowls either.

How, then, does one get salad dressing and other residues off salad
bowls? Put them in the fireplace and season them? Just kidding, sorry,
I couldn't resist. But I am honestly curious how to clean wooden salad
bowls.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:12 pm
From: Kenneth

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 02:56:06 GMT, jt august
<starsabre@net.att> wrote:

>In article <13sqsu7oben1n88@corp.supernews.com>,
> "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't wash wooden salad bowls either.
>
>How, then, does one get salad dressing and other residues off salad
>bowls? Put them in the fireplace and season them? Just kidding, sorry,
>I couldn't resist. But I am honestly curious how to clean wooden salad
>bowls.
>
>jt

Howdy,

In my experience, wooden salad bowls can indeed be washed,
but it would be unwise to soak them for any length of time.

I'd suggest a quick rinse with a bit of dish soap, and then
a quick pat dry...

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:36 pm
From: "HeyBub"

Peter A wrote:
>>>
>>> How are you "cleaning" it? Wiping it out with a paper towel should
>>> be sufficient. Do not ever subject an iron utensil (or maybe your
>>> skillet) to water.
>>
>> Water is not the problem, as long as you dry it after rinsing. I set
>> it on the still hot burner after rinsing. I never use soap on my
>> cast iron. I put a little hot water in it, scrub with a brush, rinse
>> and dry it on the burner. Then I rub it with a little oil or butter
>> before the next use. Soap will quickly remove the seasoning.
>>
>>
>
> I have 2 cast iron pans each about a decade old. They have great
> seasoning, and I regularly clean them with a weak detergent solution
> and a soft brush.

Why?

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:40 pm
From: "HeyBub"

jt august wrote:
> In article <13sqsu7oben1n88@corp.supernews.com>,
> "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't wash wooden salad bowls either.
>
> How, then, does one get salad dressing and other residues off salad
> bowls? Put them in the fireplace and season them? Just kidding,
> sorry, I couldn't resist. But I am honestly curious how to clean
> wooden salad bowls.

You don't get the dressings out. Just wipe the bowls. The oils and spices
from prior uses flavor subsequent salads with a unique palette of flavors
and aromas.

If you're not into adventures in sublime delights for the nuanced nose, use
styrofoam.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:46 pm
From: "JoeSpareBedroom"

"HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13ss5hnqm5in1cc@corp.supernews.com...
> jt august wrote:
>> In article <13sqsu7oben1n88@corp.supernews.com>,
>> "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Don't wash wooden salad bowls either.
>>
>> How, then, does one get salad dressing and other residues off salad
>> bowls? Put them in the fireplace and season them? Just kidding,
>> sorry, I couldn't resist. But I am honestly curious how to clean
>> wooden salad bowls.
>
> You don't get the dressings out. Just wipe the bowls. The oils and spices
> from prior uses flavor subsequent salads with a unique palette of flavors
> and aromas.
>
> If you're not into adventures in sublime delights for the nuanced nose,
> use styrofoam.
>

As usual, you are a complete idiot.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 8:36 pm
From: aemeijers

jt august wrote:
> In article <13sqsu7oben1n88@corp.supernews.com>,
> "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't wash wooden salad bowls either.
>
> How, then, does one get salad dressing and other residues off salad
> bowls? Put them in the fireplace and season them? Just kidding, sorry,
> I couldn't resist. But I am honestly curious how to clean wooden salad
> bowls.
>
> jt
Sandpaper?

(Well, somebody had to say it...)

But seriously, yeah, you can wash wood- you just don't wanna SOAK it.
Get the semi-soft brush wet and soapy, run the bowl under the sink,
scrub briefly with the brush, rinse, and put in drainer upside down. Not
a big deal, if it is made of the right naturally-oily wood, or has been
treated with food-grade oil. I have an old laminated-wood cutting board
that I have been washing for 20 years, and it is only now starting to
fall apart.

aem sends...

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 8:41 pm
From: Snowbound

In article <12mrs353vdpebirkhsdvpchmqkffd9lbea@4ax.com>,
PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:01:05 -0800, Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:27:37 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I am amazed so many white folks use the wok.
> >
> >Some even speak three languages: English, Redneck and Profanity.
> >
> >So! WOK off!
>
>
> Spoken like a true abused kitchen slave. Wife trouble?

"My wife's cooking is so bad (how bad is it?), the flies have all
chipped in to buy us a screen door!"
--Rodney Dangerfield

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DO U LIKE VERY MUCH
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1cc760d39e6bbd3c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:12 pm
From: smiling.viji@gmail.com

do u like me

but i like me
do u like beauty see to me

***************************************************************************
http://hollywood154.blogspot.com
***************************************************************************

==============================================================================
TOPIC: eyeglasses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/704f1c7f43520862?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 7:54 pm
From: Terryc

The Real Bev wrote:

> If, OTOH, you just want different focal-length glasses for more-or-less
> close work at different distances and are normally hyperopic, various
> dollar stores will be able to provide you with a full wardrobe for --
> you guessed it -- a buck each.

Nope, you got the purpose, but not the earlier point for the post. These
$1 each are only magnifyers, which you can easily match, but they don't
fix other problems.
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I wish I would have started doing this sooner!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/092435e0b909610b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 8:07 pm
From: rutgerskevin

Check out my new website about my efforts to make money on the
internet. Let's make some money together.

http://www.freewebs.com/rutgerskevin/unemployedhelp.htm

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TOPIC: FREE DOMAIN with every HOSTING ACCOUNT at www.UpIn10.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/448b4504328605e2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 9:04 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Telling salesman the drive out price on a car purchase up front?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35842ebffa4f381?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 9:46 pm
From: "zcarenow@yahoo.com"

You guys/gals are awesome. I will take your advice and responses to
heart! I really appreciate this!! Printing out this thread right now!!!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 9:50 pm
From: "zcarenow@yahoo.com"

On Mar 3, 1:44 pm, skark...@gmail.com wrote:
> A new car is a big ticket item. So, expect to spend some time or
> expect to pay little more.
>
> I wouldn't suggest telling the dealer what you are willing to pay.
> Here are the steps you need to take:
>
> 1) Decide which vehicle and what options you want. You have to
> finalize this... otherwise, everything becomes hazy at the time of
> purchase.
> 2) Do your own research (Edmunds) and determine the price.
> 3) If you know of anyone who has the same vehicle, ask to see the
> receipt. If not, find a relevant newsgroup and request for the price
> people have paid. Compare the price with Edmunds' and document the
> lower price for the base and for each of the options.
> 4) Invite quotes from 4 or 5 dealers. Tell them exactly what you want
> and emphasize that you don't want anything else unless they give it to
> you for free.
> 5) Pick the dealer that gives you the lowest quote. If the total price
> is less than your research, go ahead and buy. If not, ask if they can
> beat your research amount.
> 6) Visit the dealer, but be prepared to leave empty handed. Decide in
> the first 15 minutes whether the dealer looks like he'll honor the
> quote or is he going to add more costs.
>
> I personally would let go of $100 or so if that meant less haggling
> and less heartache and resulting in time savings. You have to decide
> how frugal you want to be.
>
> After you make the purchase, don't go out of your way to find out if
> you paid too much.

So don't come up with drive out price? If i don't , i would think the
dealer would add more fees to the car that would drive up the drive
out price which is the reason i wanted to come up with a drive out
price to begin with.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mortgages are much more difficult to get
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c9b5ddf2c0f9c2c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 9:56 pm
From: szo1og2snnhmkgccx4xm@gmail.com

It's just so terrible! with the sub-prime mortgage market causing all
this finincial chaos and the huge leap in forclosure rates in the last
12 months or so.

----------------------------
Need information about mortgages? There is lots of good info available
at http://www.best-homeloans.com Be sure to see
http://www.best-homeloans.com/FHA-Secure-Loan.html
if you are in the US and facing forclosure!

==============================================================================

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25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Removing non-stick coating to salvage a pan? - 10 messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/609894c6db4e02d3?hl=en
* What's your monthly grocery spending? - 8 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0abb53d245c656d6?hl=en
* OT 9/11: Celebrating Arabs Were Israeli Spies Dressed as Arabs - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7f2eaddcbe862d50?hl=en
* eyeglasses - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/704f1c7f43520862?hl=en
* china wholesale hogan prada nike shox r4 r5 r6 monsteer shoes UGG boots - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8c3b5e699d523199?hl=en
* PING Real Bev - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/de8719fee046e88a?hl=en

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:54 pm
From: aem

On Mar 4, 7:21 am, Doc <docsavag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> I don't like the idea of simply throwing it out and dumping more money
> into a non-coated wok. [snip]

Use the former wok for some non-food-related purpose. Here's a wok
that will perform well for years, at a cost of $11.50.

https://www.surfasonline.com/products/18121.cfm

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:01 pm
From: Oren

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:27:37 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I am amazed so many white folks use the wok.

Some even speak three languages: English, Redneck and Profanity.

So! WOK off!

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:04 pm
From: "Bob F"

"HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13sqsu7oben1n88@corp.supernews.com...
> Robert Allison wrote:
>>
>> The problem is that the metal is very prone to rusting, so I have
>> to oil it after every cleaning, and temper it like a cast iron
>> pan. Since I mostly use it on a fish fryer grill (although I
>> will use it on the stove), it has held up pretty well. It ain't
>> pretty by any means, but useful.
>
> How are you "cleaning" it? Wiping it out with a paper towel should be
> sufficient. Do not ever subject an iron utensil (or maybe your skillet) to
> water.

Water is not the problem, as long as you dry it after rinsing. I set it on the
still hot burner after rinsing. I never use soap on my cast iron. I put a little
hot water in it, scrub with a brush, rinse and dry it on the burner. Then I rub
it with a little oil or butter before the next use. Soap will quickly remove the
seasoning.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:37 pm
From: Kenneth

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:21:52 -0800 (PST), Doc
<docsavage20@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I've got this wok from WalMart that's coated with Xylan, which I
>gather is a first cousin of Teflon. Big mistake. It's non-stick
>properties aren't very good.
>
>I don't like the idea of simply throwing it out and dumping more money
>into a non-coated wok. I'm sure I could strip the coating off with one
>of these fibrous abrasive wheels that you bolt onto a hand drill -
>wearing a dust mask of course - but is the surface that's exposed
>going to be suitable for cooking? Wondering if there's some pre-
>treating that's done to the metal that might render it toxic if used
>as a cooking surface.
>
>Further, should it be possible to thoroughly remove all the coating
>abrasively like that? Obviously I don't want to leave behind small
>particles since I assume it's toxic.
>
>
>Thanks

Howdy,

The drill approach would probably work, but those coatings
are very soft and there might be an easier approach:

I would just try sanding it off by hand with a few sheets of
wet or dry abrasive paper.

That said, I would have a concern:

You asked if the substrate would be suitable for cooking,
but how would one know?

If, for example, it had lead in it, you might be in some
trouble over time.

Though I certainly understand the desire to make good use
out of something you now own, I, personally, would hesitate
(unless I could figure out a way to be sure that the
material was safe for food contact use.)

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:49 pm
From: "HeyBub"

Bob F wrote:
>>
>> How are you "cleaning" it? Wiping it out with a paper towel should be
>> sufficient. Do not ever subject an iron utensil (or maybe your
>> skillet) to water.
>
> Water is not the problem, as long as you dry it after rinsing. I set
> it on the still hot burner after rinsing. I never use soap on my cast
> iron. I put a little hot water in it, scrub with a brush, rinse and
> dry it on the burner. Then I rub it with a little oil or butter
> before the next use. Soap will quickly remove the seasoning.

Okay, I'll play. WHY are you washing the thing in the first place?

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 3:00 pm
From: Peter A

In article <XLKdnTzO0dLDWlDanZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@comcast.com>,
bobnospam@gmail.com says...
>
> "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:13sqsu7oben1n88@corp.supernews.com...
> > Robert Allison wrote:
> >>
> >> The problem is that the metal is very prone to rusting, so I have
> >> to oil it after every cleaning, and temper it like a cast iron
> >> pan. Since I mostly use it on a fish fryer grill (although I
> >> will use it on the stove), it has held up pretty well. It ain't
> >> pretty by any means, but useful.
> >
> > How are you "cleaning" it? Wiping it out with a paper towel should be
> > sufficient. Do not ever subject an iron utensil (or maybe your skillet) to
> > water.
>
> Water is not the problem, as long as you dry it after rinsing. I set it on the
> still hot burner after rinsing. I never use soap on my cast iron. I put a little
> hot water in it, scrub with a brush, rinse and dry it on the burner. Then I rub
> it with a little oil or butter before the next use. Soap will quickly remove the
> seasoning.
>
>

Soap does not - repeat, DOES NOT - remove seasoning from cast iron when
used properly. So many people get all silly about cleaning cast iron. I
have 2 cast iron pans each about a decade old. They have great
seasoning, and I regularly clean them with a weak detergent solution and
a soft brush. The seasoning is polymerized oil, not subject to
dissolving in mild detergent used for short periods.

Also, using butter to season cast iron is a bad idea. Butter contains
not only oil (butterfat) but milk solids (protein), which you certainly
do not want on the surface of your pan.

--
Peter Aitken
Author, MS Word for Medical and Technical Writers
www.tech-word.com

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 3:13 pm
From: "JoeSpareBedroom"

"HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13srkgbdufi2v9f@corp.supernews.com...
> Bob F wrote:
>>>
>>> How are you "cleaning" it? Wiping it out with a paper towel should be
>>> sufficient. Do not ever subject an iron utensil (or maybe your
>>> skillet) to water.
>>
>> Water is not the problem, as long as you dry it after rinsing. I set
>> it on the still hot burner after rinsing. I never use soap on my cast
>> iron. I put a little hot water in it, scrub with a brush, rinse and
>> dry it on the burner. Then I rub it with a little oil or butter
>> before the next use. Soap will quickly remove the seasoning.
>
> Okay, I'll play. WHY are you washing the thing in the first place?
>

Are you asking about washing, or cleaning?

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 3:16 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:01:05 -0800, Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:27:37 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I am amazed so many white folks use the wok.
>
>Some even speak three languages: English, Redneck and Profanity.
>
>So! WOK off!

Spoken like a true abused kitchen slave. Wife trouble?

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 4:08 pm
From: Terryc

Doc wrote:
> I don't like the idea of simply throwing it out and dumping more money
> into a non-coated wok

I was going to suggest a blow toch and good ventilation, but sand
blasting or the acid method might be better (safer).

As others said, oil after washing.

However, I've always found that a good wok was simple and economical.
Simple spun steel bowl with rivetted handle are easy to obtain from
"chinese" shops here. Buy different sizes. Do not buy that fancy coated
crap(inside or out) or spot welded handles. you are just paying for image.

However, our best wok is a cast/spun aluminium with handles as part of
the moulding. Unfortunately, SWMBO picked it up during her time in
Malaya, but as we have 5 woks in the place currently, we haven't looked
locally(Australia).

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 5:44 pm
From: Oren

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:16:02 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:01:05 -0800, Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:27:37 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I am amazed so many white folks use the wok.
>>
>>Some even speak three languages: English, Redneck and Profanity.
>>
>>So! WOK off!
>
>
>Spoken like a true abused kitchen slave. Wife trouble?

Not when I cook in the yard, declare my turf and so. I'm going to
China town in Las Vegas and get me a wok. Might have the bride drive
me.

Nice try!

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:59 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:55:42 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>
>> i can tell you that we spend 100/mon just on dairy & eggs.
>>
>>
>
>Have you noticed the price of eggs lately?
>
>A year ago, we were paying $1.50/dozen at the grocer ($0.99 at
>Walmart). Yesterday I noticed $2.59 for large eggs at the grocer.

DW gets them for $1/doz from a neighbor.

What we have noticed going up in price is fresh produce. We have to
get a garden going this year or we'll be eating only frozen or canned.
Thank goodness we bought a big energy efficent freezer. We've been
much more able to take advantage of sales.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:02 pm
From: clams_casino

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:_Ohzj.7991$XO4.1166@newsfe19.lga...
>
>
>>AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> i can tell you that we spend 100/mon just on dairy & eggs.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>Have you noticed the price of eggs lately?
>>
>>A year ago, we were paying $1.50/dozen at the grocer ($0.99 at Walmart).
>>Yesterday I noticed $2.59 for large eggs at the grocer.
>>
>>
>
>2.75/doz for organic free range (not just cage free; they actually get to
>run
>all over outside) from my amish farmer. really orange yolks.
>
>
>
>

That may not last long -

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/216817 - 2/16/08

"Stores across the country are selling a dozen large Grade A eggs
<http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/eggs/> at an average of
$1.92 this week.

United States Department of Agriculture figures show that is up from
$1.19 last September, $1.03 in June and just 84 cents in April.

Martin blamed the high egg prices
<http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/price/> on several
factors, led by the dramatic rise in the price
<http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/price/> of the corn
<http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/corn/> and soybeans used
to feed chickens."

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:09 pm
From: Al Bundy

OhioGuy wrote:
> I just read an article which stated that the average family of 4 here in
> the USA spends $900 a month on groceries, plus more on eating out at
> restaurants.
>
> I was shocked! Is this true?
>
>
> We have a family of 4, and our grocery budget is only $180 a month. Until
> last month, it was $160 a month, but we had to raise it a bit because many
> food prices have gone up 20 to 30% in the past year.
>
> I know that most folks would consider me frugal, but I had no idea we were
> getting by on 20% of what the average similar sized family was spending.
>
> How much do you spend on groceries a month?

Please give us a clue as to what you are eating for $1.50 per
person. I spend more than your grocery budget just for myself.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:54 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:59:34 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>Thank goodness we bought a big energy efficent freezer. We've been
>much more able to take advantage of sales.

Not to mention cutting your use of 'i's by 33%!
;-)
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 3:19 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:YFjzj.16722$097.3609@newsfe21.lga...

> That may not last long -
> http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/216817 - 2/16/08
>
> "Stores across the country are selling a dozen large Grade A eggs
> <http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/eggs/> at an average of
> $1.92 this week.
>
> United States Department of Agriculture figures show that is up from $1.19
> last September, $1.03 in June and just 84 cents in April.
>
> Martin blamed the high egg prices
> <http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/price/> on several
> factors, led by the dramatic rise in the price
> <http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/price/> of the corn
> <http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/15/1/corn/> and soybeans used
> to feed chickens."

so, i wonder what chickens in the wild eat. i know they eat grass, weed,
bugs. anything else. seems to me there's no need to feed free range
chickens anything.
>

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 3:19 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
news:45fca763-4f3b-4455-a5e2-6a75f505de7e@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> OhioGuy wrote:
>> I just read an article which stated that the average family of 4 here in
>> the USA spends $900 a month on groceries, plus more on eating out at
>> restaurants.
>>
>> I was shocked! Is this true?
>>
>>
>> We have a family of 4, and our grocery budget is only $180 a month.
>> Until
>> last month, it was $160 a month, but we had to raise it a bit because
>> many
>> food prices have gone up 20 to 30% in the past year.
>>
>> I know that most folks would consider me frugal, but I had no idea we
>> were
>> getting by on 20% of what the average similar sized family was spending.
>>
>> How much do you spend on groceries a month?
>
> Please give us a clue as to what you are eating for $1.50 per
> person. I spend more than your grocery budget just for myself.

no frt or veggies; lots of cheap carbos.
>

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 4:14 pm
From: Terryc

OhioGuy wrote:

> I know that most folks would consider me frugal, but I had no idea we were
> getting by on 20% of what the average similar sized family was spending.

You need to go shopping and look at what the aveage punter puts in their
grocery trolley.

Also be aware of what an "average" grocery buy is considered to be. As
my mum was saying on the weekend, when she was doing a welfare worker
course, she was given zero for a question like "How many packets of
bicsuits could a family on welfare of $???.?? each week afford to buy?"
Apparently zero was the incorrect answer.

OTOH, our major component is fruit and vege from the greengrocer as we
buy very little pre-processed stuff.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 5:51 pm
From: clams_casino

Al Bundy wrote:

>OhioGuy wrote:
>
>
>>I just read an article which stated that the average family of 4 here in
>>the USA spends $900 a month on groceries, plus more on eating out at
>>restaurants.
>>
>> I was shocked! Is this true?
>>
>>
>> We have a family of 4, and our grocery budget is only $180 a month. Until
>>last month, it was $160 a month, but we had to raise it a bit because many
>>food prices have gone up 20 to 30% in the past year.
>>
>> I know that most folks would consider me frugal, but I had no idea we were
>>getting by on 20% of what the average similar sized family was spending.
>>
>> How much do you spend on groceries a month?
>>
>>
>
>Please give us a clue as to what you are eating for $1.50 per
>person. I spend more than your grocery budget just for myself.
>
>

That might just cover the TP, soap & washing detergent in our home.

$180/mo comes out to 50 cents/person per meal.

I'm not sure I could prepare 240 portions of soup for $180 (2x/day x 4
people) without using a lot of water.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT 9/11: Celebrating Arabs Were Israeli Spies Dressed as Arabs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7f2eaddcbe862d50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 2:53 pm
From: clam.sucker@googlemail.com

On Mar 3, 2:03 pm, osa....@googlemail.com wrote:

> nope... you're completely wrong and far away from reality.
>
> the psychiatrists did it!

we did. we also did 10/02/08 as we will do 15/03/08 as well as
15/04/008.

does the OP want to do something about it or just whine like a little
anti-semitic bitch??

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 3:55 pm
From: Terryc

clams_casino wrote:

>
> I'm guessing you enjoy do-it-yourself prostate exams.

To quote the TV scammers, I don't have a weak and interrupted urinal stream.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 3:58 pm
From: Terryc

Snowbound wrote:

> Well, you could squint a lot. Think Clint Eastwood.

My thoughts were that if I could source lenses, then I could copy the
prescription. I have my eyes checked almost quarterly. it is just that
from day to day focal lengths change,so rather than spend $1,000+ on a
board of eye glasses to cater, I was wonderig if I could roll my own so
to speak.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 5:51 pm
From: The Real Bev

Terryc wrote:

> Snowbound wrote:
>
>> Well, you could squint a lot. Think Clint Eastwood.
>
> My thoughts were that if I could source lenses, then I could copy the
> prescription. I have my eyes checked almost quarterly. it is just that
> from day to day focal lengths change,so rather than spend $1,000+ on a
> board of eye glasses to cater, I was wonderig if I could roll my own so
> to speak.

If your prescription changes that often, I suspect you have bigger
problems than trying to find cheap glasses.

If, OTOH, you just want different focal-length glasses for more-or-less
close work at different distances and are normally hyperopic, various
dollar stores will be able to provide you with a full wardrobe for --
you guessed it -- a buck each.

--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: china wholesale hogan prada nike shox r4 r5 r6 monsteer shoes UGG boots
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8c3b5e699d523199?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 5:21 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: PING Real Bev
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/de8719fee046e88a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 5:22 pm
From: Marsha

You were asking about memory foam mattresses a while back, and I replied
that I loved mine, but they do tend to hold body heat. If you haven't
purchased anything yet, my sister was looking for a new set and one of
the salesman told her that, because of this common complaint, some of
the newer memory foam mattresses have small holes drilled through them
to draw heat away from your body. I have no idea if it's true, but you
may want to check that out. I really love my air bed with the memory
foam top and will never go back to springs.

Marsha

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 5:55 pm
From: The Real Bev

Marsha wrote:

> You were asking about memory foam mattresses a while back, and I replied
> that I loved mine, but they do tend to hold body heat. If you haven't
> purchased anything yet, my sister was looking for a new set and one of
> the salesman told her that, because of this common complaint, some of
> the newer memory foam mattresses have small holes drilled through them
> to draw heat away from your body. I have no idea if it's true, but you
> may want to check that out. I really love my air bed with the memory
> foam top and will never go back to springs.

Thanks! I haven't bought one yet, but will probably get the one that
comes in a box from Costco. It claims to have a layer of cooler foam on
top.

--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

==============================================================================

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25 new messages in 5 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

* Call Centre Supervisor, £10 12ph Inbound Cus Serv - Vacancies4all.com - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/553245596cd8992f?hl=en
* Best credit card for international purchases - 9 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e7989ff39fb02022?hl=en
* Removing non-stick coating to salvage a pan? - 9 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/609894c6db4e02d3?hl=en
* What's your monthly grocery spending? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0abb53d245c656d6?hl=en
* How Will You All Adapt to $4.00 per gallon gasoline? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27e47bb40833e110?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Call Centre Supervisor, £10 12ph Inbound Cus Serv - Vacancies4all.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/553245596cd8992f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 10:22 am
From: "kenny.mcgrill@googlemail.com"

Call Centre Supervisor, £10 12ph Inbound Cus Serv - Vacancies4all.com
http://www.vacancies4all.com/Postings/3743.html

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 10:36 am
From: GLSmyth

I am going to be traveling to Scotland this summer, and expect to pay
for most of my expenses by using a credit card. However, I do not
know whether or not my card offers the best deal as far as exchange
rate, transaction fees, etc., is concerned. I would be fine getting a
card for the single purpose of using on the trip if I knew somewhere
that would give me a comparison of these variables, but have not been
able to find this information.

Any suggestions on cards or where I can go to find a comparison would
be very helpful.

Cheers -

george

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 10:47 am
From: ranck@vt.edu

GLSmyth <george.smyth@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am going to be traveling to Scotland this summer, and expect to pay
> for most of my expenses by using a credit card. However, I do not
> know whether or not my card offers the best deal as far as exchange
> rate, transaction fees, etc., is concerned. I would be fine getting a
> card for the single purpose of using on the trip if I knew somewhere
> that would give me a comparison of these variables, but have not been
> able to find this information.

> Any suggestions on cards or where I can go to find a comparison would
> be very helpful.

The credit card comapnies just lost a big law suit about foreign exchange
rates. They are probably all going to be close to the daily exchange
rate plus a small percentage now.

I found that an ATM only card, not a credit card branded type, was
very useful in getting cash from foreign ATMs in Europe in general.
Mine worked pretty much everywhere about 1.5 years ago, and those
work *very* close to the inter bank exchange rates.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:02 am
From: George L Smyth

On Mar 4, 1:47 pm, ra...@vt.edu wrote:
> The credit card comapnies just lost a big law suit about foreign exchange
> rates. They are probably all going to be close to the daily exchange
> rate plus a small percentage now.
>
> I found that an ATM only card, not a credit card branded type, was
> very useful in getting cash from foreign ATMs in Europe in general.
> Mine worked pretty much everywhere about 1.5 years ago, and those
> work *very* close to the inter bank exchange rates.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.

Bill -

My only concern with using ATM is the availability of the machines. I
will begin and end my trip in Glasgow and assume that my Bank of
America card will be recognized. However, when I head off to Skye and
Lewis/Harris I am guessing that I might run into trouble finding
ATMs. Not so? I have read that ATM machines are the best bet, but am
"assuming" that they are only available in the larger cities.

Cheers -

george

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:12 am
From: "Rod Speed"

George L Smyth <OneMinuteHowTo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 4, 1:47 pm, ra...@vt.edu wrote:
>> The credit card comapnies just lost a big law suit about foreign
>> exchange rates. They are probably all going to be close to the
>> daily exchange rate plus a small percentage now.
>>
>> I found that an ATM only card, not a credit card branded type, was
>> very useful in getting cash from foreign ATMs in Europe in general.
>> Mine worked pretty much everywhere about 1.5 years ago, and those
>> work *very* close to the inter bank exchange rates.
>>
>> Bill Ranck
>> Blacksburg, Va.
>
> Bill -
>
> My only concern with using ATM is the availability of the machines. I
> will begin and end my trip in Glasgow and assume that my Bank of
> America card will be recognized. However, when I head off to Skye and
> Lewis/Harris I am guessing that I might run into trouble finding
> ATMs. Not so? I have read that ATM machines are the best bet, but am
> "assuming" that they are only available in the larger cities.

Nope, they are available everywhere now.

Whether those in the smaller places will accept your card is another matter entirely tho.

Your bank should be able to tell you whether their card is accepted in places like Skye etc.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:35 am
From: George L Smyth

On Mar 4, 2:12 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bill -
>
> > My only concern with using ATM is the availability of the machines. I
> > will begin and end my trip in Glasgow and assume that my Bank of
> > America card will be recognized. However, when I head off to Skye and
> > Lewis/Harris I am guessing that I might run into trouble finding
> > ATMs. Not so? I have read that ATM machines are the best bet, but am
> > "assuming" that they are only available in the larger cities.
>
> Nope, they are available everywhere now.
>
> Whether those in the smaller places will accept your card is another matter entirely tho.
>
> Your bank should be able to tell you whether their card is accepted in places like Skye etc.

It sounds like the best thing may be to plan this out, instead of just
looking for some place when I start to run low.

Cheers -

george

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:38 am
From: "John Weiss"

"George L Smyth" <OneMinuteHowTo@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> My only concern with using ATM is the availability of the machines. I
> will begin and end my trip in Glasgow and assume that my Bank of
> America card will be recognized. However, when I head off to Skye and
> Lewis/Harris I am guessing that I might run into trouble finding
> ATMs. Not so? I have read that ATM machines are the best bet, but am
> "assuming" that they are only available in the larger cities.

ATMs are attached to virtually every bank over there as well as in
standalone kiosks. They all handle Visa and MasterCard debit cards. Not a
problem!

Just make sure YOUR bank doesn't charge a fee for international use...
You'll pay the 0.8-1.0% Visa or MasterCard fee (similar to credit card
fee), and that's enough.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:49 am
From: George L Smyth

On Mar 4, 2:38 pm, "John Weiss" <jrwe...@nospamattglobal.net> wrote:
> ATMs are attached to virtually every bank over there as well as in
> standalone kiosks. They all handle Visa and MasterCard debit cards. Not a
> problem!
>
> Just make sure YOUR bank doesn't charge a fee for international use...
> You'll pay the 0.8-1.0% Visa or MasterCard fee (similar to credit card
> fee), and that's enough.

Bank of America (my bank) has an arrangement with Barclays, which is
good. However, once well outside of Glasgow it appears that Perth and
Inverness are the only other places they have machines. I'd rather
not carry a large amount of money with me, so while these will be
helpful, it looks like a credit card will be very helpful. If I can
figure out which card will be most exchange-fee-friendly then that
will allow me to fill in those times between the two locations.

Cheers -

george

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 12:00 pm
From: clams_casino

GLSmyth wrote:

>I am going to be traveling to Scotland this summer, and expect to pay
>for most of my expenses by using a credit card.
>

Can't comment on the best card, but be sure to notify your credit card
company that you will be traveling overseas. I've heard about CC
companies freezing cards when there is possibility of it being stolen &
used away from your typical usage area.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:04 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

George L Smyth wrote:
> On Mar 4, 2:38 pm, "John Weiss" <jrwe...@nospamattglobal.net> wrote:
>> ATMs are attached to virtually every bank over there as well as in
>> standalone kiosks. They all handle Visa and MasterCard debit cards. Not a
>> problem!
>>
>> Just make sure YOUR bank doesn't charge a fee for international use...
>> You'll pay the 0.8-1.0% Visa or MasterCard fee (similar to credit card
>> fee), and that's enough.
>
> Bank of America (my bank) has an arrangement with Barclays, which is
> good. However, once well outside of Glasgow it appears that Perth and
> Inverness are the only other places they have machines. I'd rather
> not carry a large amount of money with me, so while these will be
> helpful, it looks like a credit card will be very helpful. If I can
> figure out which card will be most exchange-fee-friendly then that
> will allow me to fill in those times between the two locations.

I'm sure they have them in Edinburgh as well.

In fact, I can't believe that the only Barclays ATMs are in those four
cities.

That said, I'd try for a card from a credit union rather than a
bank--they are much less likely to charge exorbitant fees.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Heretic: someone who disagrees with you about
something neither of you knows anything about.

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:28 am
From: Charles van Blommestein

On Mar 4, 9:21 am, Doc <docsavag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've got this wok from WalMart that's coated with Xylan, which I
> gather is a first cousin of Teflon. Big mistake. It's non-stick
> properties aren't very good.
>
> I don't like the idea of simply throwing it out and dumping more money
> into a non-coated wok. I'm sure I could strip the coating off with one
> of these fibrous abrasive wheels that you bolt onto a hand drill -
> wearing a dust mask of course - but is the surface that's exposed
> going to be suitable for cooking? Wondering if there's some pre-
> treating that's done to the metal that might render it toxic if used
> as a cooking surface.
>
> Further, should it be possible to thoroughly remove all the coating
> abrasively like that? Obviously I don't want to leave behind small
> particles since I assume it's toxic.
>
> Thanks

I have a few similarly well worn pans in my kichen cubbard.
With the "more recent" (w.i. the past 20-30 years) years of cookware,
the metal base is very likely ALUMINUM, which when heated is very
toxic.
What I did and recommend is to simply continue cooking with the Xylan
surface by using THICK COATS of the non-stick spray-on cooking oils or
simply let the 4-leg use this worn pan as a drinking bowl.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:37 am
From: DerbyDad03

On Mar 4, 2:28 pm, Charles van Blommestein <cvanb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 4, 9:21 am, Doc <docsavag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've got this wok from WalMart that's coated with Xylan, which I
> > gather is a first cousin of Teflon. Big mistake. It's non-stick
> > properties aren't very good.
>
> > I don't like the idea of simply throwing it out and dumping more money
> > into a non-coated wok. I'm sure I could strip the coating off with one
> > of these fibrous abrasive wheels that you bolt onto a hand drill -
> > wearing a dust mask of course - but is the surface that's exposed
> > going to be suitable for cooking? Wondering if there's some pre-
> > treating that's done to the metal that might render it toxic if used
> > as a cooking surface.
>
> > Further, should it be possible to thoroughly remove all the coating
> > abrasively like that? Obviously I don't want to leave behind small
> > particles since I assume it's toxic.
>
> > Thanks
>
> I have a few similarly well worn pans in my kichen cubbard.
> With the "more recent" (w.i. the past 20-30 years) years of cookware,
> the metal base is very likely ALUMINUM, which when heated is very
> toxic.
> What I did and recommend is to simply continue cooking with the Xylan
> surface by using THICK COATS of the non-stick spray-on cooking oils or
> simply let the 4-leg use this worn pan as a drinking bowl.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

re: let the 4-leg use this worn pan as a drinking bowl

SWMBO would kill me - not because I let the dog drink out of a pan,
but because I tried to give her dog cancer.

She's convinced that any and all non-stick surface coatings are toxic.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:39 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Doc" <docsavage20@yahoo.com> wrote...
> I've got this wok from WalMart that's coated with Xylan, which I
> gather is a first cousin of Teflon. Big mistake. It's non-stick
> properties aren't very good.
>
> I don't like the idea of simply throwing it out and dumping more money
> into a non-coated wok.

Why bother removing it? Just use it with a little oil!

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 12:03 pm
From: George

John Weiss wrote:
> "Doc" <docsavage20@yahoo.com> wrote...
>> I've got this wok from WalMart that's coated with Xylan, which I
>> gather is a first cousin of Teflon. Big mistake. It's non-stick
>> properties aren't very good.
>>
>> I don't like the idea of simply throwing it out and dumping more money
>> into a non-coated wok.
>
> Why bother removing it? Just use it with a little oil!
>
>
Because it is not a real wok and if you try to use it at wok
temperatures the plastic coating will be ruined and will outgass toxic
stuff while doing it.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 12:12 pm
From: Oren

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:37:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>re: let the 4-leg use this worn pan as a drinking bowl
>
>SWMBO would kill me - not because I let the dog drink out of a pan,
>but because I tried to give her dog cancer.
>
>She's convinced that any and all non-stick surface coatings are toxic.

Listen to her :)

(ever buy a pet bowl with Teflon?)

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 12:38 pm
From: "JoeSpareBedroom"

"Oren" <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:t5brs3p09g752c8s0eo0p0kv04phroti0h@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:37:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>>re: let the 4-leg use this worn pan as a drinking bowl
>>
>>SWMBO would kill me - not because I let the dog drink out of a pan,
>>but because I tried to give her dog cancer.
>>
>>She's convinced that any and all non-stick surface coatings are toxic.
>
> Listen to her :)
>
> (ever buy a pet bowl with Teflon?)
>

Even better: In some Chinese restaurants, you can see the kitchen. Ever
seen a non-stick wok in a place like that?

Of course not.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 12:48 pm
From: DerbyDad03

On Mar 4, 3:38 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Oren" <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>
> news:t5brs3p09g752c8s0eo0p0kv04phroti0h@4ax.com...
>
> > On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:37:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> > <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >>re: let the 4-leg use this worn pan as a drinking bowl
>
> >>SWMBO would kill me - not because I let the dog drink out of a pan,
> >>but because I tried to give her dog cancer.
>
> >>She's convinced that any and all non-stick surface coatings are toxic.
>
> > Listen to her :)
>
> > (ever buy a pet bowl with Teflon?)
>
> Even better: In some Chinese restaurants, you can see the kitchen. Ever
> seen a non-stick wok in a place like that?
>
> Of course not.

re: Even better: In some Chinese restaurants, you can see the
kitchen. Ever seen a non-stick wok in a place like that?

Even better: Ever seen a 4 legged creature in a place like that? Of
course not - not alive anyway..

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:27 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:38:21 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
<dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Oren" <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:t5brs3p09g752c8s0eo0p0kv04phroti0h@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:37:15 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>>>re: let the 4-leg use this worn pan as a drinking bowl
>>>
>>>SWMBO would kill me - not because I let the dog drink out of a pan,
>>>but because I tried to give her dog cancer.
>>>
>>>She's convinced that any and all non-stick surface coatings are toxic.
>>
>> Listen to her :)
>>
>> (ever buy a pet bowl with Teflon?)
>>
>
>
>Even better: In some Chinese restaurants, you can see the kitchen. Ever
>seen a non-stick wok in a place like that?
>
>Of course not.
>

A polymer coating would never survive the frequent stabbling with a
wok spatula that goes with Chinese cooking.

I am amazed so many white folks use the wok. I'd use one too except I
have an electric range. It uses up too much power to get the wok to
temperature and that heat is concentrated on the bottom only.

Only a gas range or open fire does a wok justice. Use an uncoated
heavy iron or steel wok. It holds and distributes the heat to provide
a better heat gradient from the center to the rim, sort of like why
people prefer to use a cast iron skillet to bring out the best
flavoring and texture. To clean empty the wok and add a cup of water
to heat over the range. Swirl the boiling water to dissolve the
residual food. Chinese restaurants use a stiff bamboo whisk to
unstick food morsels. Its unlikely you can use a whisk in a home as
the whisk will flick dirty water outside the sink. A few quick
swipes with a souring pad should suffice. Repeat. Rinse each time.
Wipe with a paper towel and "burn" off the remaining rinse water
adhering to the wok over the range. In an iron wok the residual heat
is often enough to vaporize that dampness.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:34 pm
From: notbob

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.food.cooking.]

> temperature and that heat is concentrated on the bottom only.

That's pretty much the ideal. Some food items can be pushed up on the sides to retard
cooking while the bottom still provides mucho heat for other food items.

> Only a gas range or open fire does a wok justice.

True, but a flat bottomed wok can be used on an electric. Get a Turkey
fryer and put your wok on that burner. Those suckers are typically in the
100-170K btu range. Way more than enough to drive a wok. I got mine at
Lowes at an end-of-season sale forr $19! You can hardly get a lone burner
that cheap.

Use an uncoated
> heavy iron or steel wok. It holds and distributes the heat to provide
> a better heat gradient from the center to the rim, sort of like why
> people prefer to use a cast iron skillet to bring out the best
> flavoring and texture. To clean empty the wok and add a cup of water
> to heat over the range. Swirl the boiling water to dissolve the
> residual food. Chinese restaurants use a stiff bamboo whisk to
> unstick food morsels. Its unlikely you can use a whisk in a home as
> the whisk will flick dirty water outside the sink. A few quick
> swipes with a souring pad should suffice. Repeat. Rinse each time.
> Wipe with a paper towel and "burn" off the remaining rinse water
> adhering to the wok over the range. In an iron wok the residual heat
> is often enough to vaporize that dampness.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 11:55 am
From: clams_casino

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

> i can tell you that we spend 100/mon just on dairy & eggs.
>
>

Have you noticed the price of eggs lately?

A year ago, we were paying $1.50/dozen at the grocer ($0.99 at
Walmart). Yesterday I noticed $2.59 for large eggs at the grocer.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 12:40 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:_Ohzj.7991$XO4.1166@newsfe19.lga...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>
>> i can tell you that we spend 100/mon just on dairy & eggs.

> Have you noticed the price of eggs lately?
>
> A year ago, we were paying $1.50/dozen at the grocer ($0.99 at Walmart).
> Yesterday I noticed $2.59 for large eggs at the grocer.

2.75/doz for organic free range (not just cage free; they actually get to
run
all over outside) from my amish farmer. really orange yolks.

after sitting down and thinking;

every 3 wks: 200 at the far away health food store
60 with my amish farmer for eggs & dairy
weeks 1&2 total 100 at the nearby health food store for produce, milk
(this incls 40 for csa during the
summer)

360/3=120wk 120*52=6240yr = 520/calendar mon for produce and dairy
add in about 100/mon for bf, cx. pork, turkey, tuna.

so i guess we spend about 600-650/mon for the 2 of us. we don't eat out
all that often, maybe 2x/month, usually breakfast. so round it up to
700/mon. this does include cleaning supplies and personal care items, but
not paper products.

expensive, i know. and i cook from scratch. speaking of which, my bean
soup is whining at me. :)

i'd like to put in a garden, but i'd guess that all the hoodlums will steal
from it when prices start to rise. i've got no way to protect it.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:08 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:55:42 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>Have you noticed the price of eggs lately?
>
>A year ago, we were paying $1.50/dozen at the grocer ($0.99 at
>Walmart). Yesterday I noticed $2.59 for large eggs at the grocer.

I haven't noticed the price of our eggs changing, but I have noticed
that chicken feed has gone up. :-)

Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How Will You All Adapt to $4.00 per gallon gasoline?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27e47bb40833e110?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 12:57 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:03:10 -0500, Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net>
wrote:

>In article <7isos3lvre6ufcalqkgv16dnbfteg09rft@4ax.com>,
> Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree that teachers should be reasonably well paid, but I also think
>> that taxpayers should get good value for their money. That means
>> abolish the current practices of tenure and advancement based on
>> seniority and make it a meritocracy like you see in most successful
>> businesses (at least in lower levels).
>
>How would that work? Remember, the devil is in the details.

Um, just like it does in successful businesses. There are plenty of
working examples to draw from. (Think high-tech.)

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:02 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:02:27 -0500, Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net>
wrote:

> That's the problem with the American educational system,
>not enough is being invested to hire good teachers, and the
>certification process is far too onerous and turns off good people
>toward other careers.

Agreed, that is one problem. The other is that the deadwood is not
pruned like it is in most successful businesses. There are plenty of
marginal teachers coasting on the public dime. Thank the unions,
mostly.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 4 2008 1:23 pm
From: "Dave"

>
> I might complain, but i wont bitch about the president not doing his job,
> as
> I know he is powerless. -Dave

Why complain when the $4...$5...$10 gallon gas happens at all if the
President...Republican or Democrat ....has no influence?

(my reply):

Well do you complain when you get a headache and blame that on the
president? Most people would complain, but not blame the president. -Dave

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