Frugal Living: Nov 1, 2008

Saturday, November 1, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Cheap isolation against freezing pipes in winter? Have a question, guys.
..
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccc7a45c5d21ff98?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:50 pm
From: websurf1@cox.net

On Oct 15, 7:51 am, "A \"That One\"" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com>
wrote:

> did you know the hot water pipes freeze first?

I am aware that a given volume of boiling water will freeze faster
than the same volume of cold water. This is due to the density
difference being great enough that there is substantially less mass of
hot water in that volume, and it will cool down more quickly.

However, hot water pipes? If the water shrinks as it cools, more
water is pulled into the pipes from the rest of the system (assuming
the pipes don't have air bubbles in them). So the mass in a given
length of pipe would increase as the water cools.

Are you confused, or am I missing something?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 3:02 am
From: clams_casino

websurf1@cox.net wrote:

>On Oct 15, 7:51 am, "A \"That One\"" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>did you know the hot water pipes freeze first?
>>
>>
>
>I am aware that a given volume of boiling water will freeze faster
>than the same volume of cold water. This is due to the density
>difference being great enough that there is substantially less mass of
>hot water in that volume, and it will cool down more quickly.
>
>However, hot water pipes? If the water shrinks as it cools, more
>water is pulled into the pipes from the rest of the system (assuming
>the pipes don't have air bubbles in them). So the mass in a given
>length of pipe would increase as the water cools.
>
>Are you confused, or am I missing something?
>
>
>
Hot water will freeze at a faster rate, but it takes longer to freeze.
(rate being degrees-to-cool / time)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wallet Biopsy with a chain saw
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cca0c4d4c1a9ca4b?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 1:50 am
From: meow2222@care2.com

On Oct 31, 5:14 pm, "viet nam vet." <georgewks...@humboldt1.com>
wrote:
> In article
> <georgewkspam-2BE8BB.13122030102...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> "viet nam vet." <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote:

> and this up-date.
>
> Ever get taken advantage of by a "service' org.?
> Lenny Bruce wanted to write a book of phrases that you could use when
> getting
> an estimate on some repairs, like a stereo or your car.
> Like if the stereo went out, you could use a phrase from the book ,
> Well, I don't
> have time to fix this stereo because I'm busy putting in a Microwave
> tower on the hill.
> and the "Car Talk Guys" always warn you against getting your car fixed
> when the mechanic's boat payments are due.
> Really, sometimes you just are at the mercy of these petty criminals.

If you are, youre doing it wrong.

> My advice , getting an estimate or two.three?

bad idea - always get quotes.

> Or deal with a friend's
> reccomendations

many such recommendations come from one or few purchases, sometimes
from sellers with a very high incidence of complaints.

This is all very basic stuff that shoild be taught in schools.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning on unplugging to save money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df565ab499ce5661?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 1:58 am
From: meow2222@care2.com

On Oct 31, 12:26 am, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In <e43adc33-3ef5-4a7f-a540-56f845046...@y29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> meow2...@care2.com wrote, edited for space:
>
>
>
> >On Oct 17, 2:55 am, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
> >> I have one of those Kill-A-Watt meters. My TV draws 11-12 watts when
> >> it is off. My computer draws about 4 watts when it is off. My cable box
> >> and my printer each draw about 1 watt when they are off. I forget what my
> >> monitor draws when it is off, and I am using it now.
>
> >> Modern cellphone chargers appear to me to take less than a watt if
> >> pluggen in unused, maybe more like half a watt, but most other wallwarts
> >> appear to me to comsume about 3/4-2 watts (mostly 1-1.5 watts) if
> >> plugged in and unloaded.
>
> >> I turn my computer speakers off when I don't need audio - but they draw
> >> apparently a little under 1 watt when they are on but not receiving a
> >> signal.
>
> >> It appears to me that things like these can add up to a minority of
> >> electrical power consumption that can be significant.
>
> >For the most part this talk about the joys of unplugging is just
> >greenwash. Most standby appliances eat as good as nothing, and the
> >physical act of unpugging and replugging them actually uses more
> >energy, physical resources (food) and money.
>
> How many calories do I burn if I unplug and replug my TV? Jogging 1
> mile burns 100 calories, so I am estimating 1, possibly 2 calories.
>
> If I eliminate 11 watts of power consumption for 18 hours, that is 170
> "large calories" - what food calories are. Since electric power
> generation and distribution combined is about 35% efficient, the fuel
> savings is more like 480 large calories.
>
> If I unplug and replug my cellphone charger, I still avert fuel
> consumption of 10-20 times the caloric content that I would have to eat to
> do so.
>
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

Few items use 11w on standby. Those that do, great, unplug if you
like, but lots dont.

Its also pointless to unplug when you can switch off at the socket.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 11:45 am
From: E Z Peaces

Don Klipstein wrote:
> In article <f6lkg4h2oqb1hceknjnhah1g8g66vi9q57@4ax.com>, Steve Daniels wrote:
>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:26:57 +0000 (UTC), against all advice,
>> something compelled don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein), to say:
> (What I posted)
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>> That sounded really smart and all, but I didn't understand any of
>> it. Are you for unplugging stuff, or against it?
>
> I am for unplugging stuff. I was responding to someone who claimed
> incorrectly that unplugging stuff wastes more energy than it saves.
>
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

After repeatedly tripping a breaker when she tried to make coffee and
toast at the same time, my sister read somewhere that a toaster should
never be left plugged in because it's a fire hazard. She decided that
all countertop appliances should be left unplugged. I disagree.
Unplugging everything means you have to look for the right plug each
time you want to use an appliance, then remember to unplug it. Also,
wear and tear at the plug can cause an appliance to fail.

My old cordless phone and answering machine used to use a lot of power
standing by. I made only a few calls a month, but leaving it unplugged
wasn't feasible.

Current federal law limits wall warts to 0.5W when idle. There's not
much energy to save by unplugging one of these new ones unless it's
feeding a device that's drawing power when idle.

I have several criteria for unplugging things. How often do I use it?
How much standby power does it use? How convenient is the outlet? How
much would surge damage set me back? I routinely unplug my tabletop
battery charger because I use it only a few times a month and the outlet
is handy. I don't unplug my tabletop radio because I use it more than
once a day and the outlet isn't handy.

When ice brought down power lines several miles away, the surge cost me
a TV and a stereo receiver. When lightning hit my house "out of the
blue", I lost three stereo receivers and a CD player. Now I supply my
TV and stereo through a surge protector. This makes it convenient to
save standby power by switching everything off, and it has an on light
to remind me.

If we're talking about the kind of protector that responds in
nanoseconds and blows its fuse if an MOV fails, I wonder if an $80 model
is really much better than a $10 model.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal denture cleanser?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/22b9d2c880996e1d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 5:34 am
From: Mary Sunshine

Hi,

I've been using those commercial denture-cleanser tablets daily, and
although they work well, they add an expense item that I would rather
not have.

Is there anyone here who has discovered, or who uses, an alternative
to those tablets? What is your personal experience with this?

Thanks!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cork hard to come by on wine bottles?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b0408d66c4c1ad4?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 9:01 am
From: Dennis

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT), websurf1@cox.net wrote:

>On Oct 31, 10:56 am, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jeez, you're making this way more complicated than it is. Maybe you
>> just needed to whine.
>
>I think so as well
>We bought a kit with a couple rubber stopper type things, which work
>just fine.
>If we want to bother, we can also pump the air out of the bottle to
>protect the wine if we want to save it that long.
>It usually isn't necessary <g>

I bought one of those stoppers with the pump to remove the air from
the bottle. I didn't notice much difference. Maybe I'm overly
sensitive, but I taste a noticable change in wine after a day or so
from the initial opening, no matter how I reseal the bottle.

The last time I made a batch of wine, I put about half of it in 375 ml
bottles. That seems like a convenient size for a couple glasses with
dinner and no leftovers.

Too bad you can't find the better wines in boxes. The air-tight
collapsible bag inside and the tap seem to keep the wine fresh for
quite a while.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 9:58 am
From: websurf1@cox.net

On Nov 1, 9:01 am, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT), websu...@cox.net wrote:
> >On Oct 31, 10:56 am, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Jeez, you're making this way more complicated than it is. Maybe you
> >> just needed to whine.
>
> >I think so as well
> >We bought a kit with a couple rubber stopper type things, which work
> >just fine.
> >If we want to bother, we can also pump the air out of the bottle to
> >protect the wine if we want to save it that long.
> >It usually isn't necessary <g>
>
> I bought one of those stoppers with the pump to remove the air from
> the bottle. I didn't notice much difference. Maybe I'm overly
> sensitive, but I taste a noticable change in wine after a day or so
> from the initial opening, no matter how I reseal the bottle.
>
> The last time I made a batch of wine, I put about half of it in 375 ml
> bottles. That seems like a convenient size for a couple glasses with
> dinner and no leftovers.
>
> Too bad you can't find the better wines in boxes. The air-tight
> collapsible bag inside and the tap seem to keep the wine fresh for
> quite a while.
>
> Dennis (evil)
> --
> I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

We use the box wine for general table wine.
My only gripe is that the bag is not recyclable, as are the bottles.
I recycle the box, but I'm not sure they like that because of the
coating.

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TOPIC: mortgage pre-approval letter hunting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0a60faecc0516d1a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 12:49 pm
From: OhioGuy

My wife and I have noticed that there are more and more bank owned
properties coming on the market. Interest rates have also recently
dropped back to what they were in 2003 as well.

We are interested in getting a 30 year mortgage this time around,
though we will likely pay it off a lot sooner than that. I think we
need a pre-approval letter to make sure we can make an offer quickly
that will be taken seriously.

Anyone have any pointers for shopping around for a good deal on
interest rate?

specs that should affect the loan:

1) we have no debt at all

2) credit rating of 790

3) equity of about $55K in a fully paid off duplex. One side should
bring in $450 a month rent as soon as we move
out, while the other side should bring in about $400 a month
starting in about a year. Each side has 3 bedrooms and 1,300 square
feet of living area total.

4) 30 year term

Thanks!

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TOPIC: Ant Killer/Repellent- OXI CLEAN spray! Snail Bait Copy SLUGGO uses IRON
PHOSHATE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/409bb41a9559f71e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 1:36 pm
From: David L

Hi all,
I know the common house ants, at least around here in Coastal
California are the tiny Argentine Ant, non native apparently arriving
as a stow away, are very easy to kill with nearly any household
cleaner. I've been using the expensive but until recently effective,
TERRO Liquid bait that uses something similar to BORIC ACID. I'm not
sure if it's a slightly different compund or just a longer scientific
name for the same chemical, so people didn't know they were spending
so much for something very cheap? I've also tried making my own.
Either I have too many ants that just keep folowing each others trails
when one colony gets under control or it's losing effectiveness.

In a nutshell I tried OXI CLEAN spray inside the full garbage and
around the place where ants were entering the kitchen en mass, after
they launch a garbage can raid one night. They just dissapaeread and
don't come back for several days the first time. I'd urge anyone else
to try it and see if they get the excellent repellAnt effects which I
have noticed and post the results.
The ants just leave and stop coming back after getting sprayed for at
least several days. To confine the OXI CLEAN spray, I simply spray
some on a paper towel and wipe all around where they come in and along
any of their "chemical highways" that they are traveling on around the
kitchen. Remember I'm only using this on hard kitchen surfaces and
that the active principle of OXI CLEAN says Hydrogen Peroxide. It's a
fairly strong, non chlorine type OXIDIZER and will bleach or break
down any number of household items. I'd be careful around natural
fibers (eyeballs & nasal passages too) or anything that you don't want
bleached or oxidized. Doesn't seem to harm my paint or floor.

I'm not sure how OXI CLEAN works, but my best guess is it beaks down
the chemicals that ants use to communicate where they travel and so
get lost or confusing messages. It may have the effect of leaving them
"blind" about where to go to get to the food source, but that's just a
guess. I'm pretty excited about how long this stuff lasts and how
quickly it stops a huge line of ants that have found a bowl of sugery
or fatty food accidentally left out. They just STOP coming after the
trail and around there entryway is wiped down with a little OXI CLEAN.
OXI CLEAN is made by the Orange Glow International USA.
Good luck!

Next I'll be working on making my own SNAIL KILLER, a copy of the
German made commercial product SLUGGO which uses IRON PHOSPHATE 1% and
a bait of some kind (+ corn meal?) to constipate snails and they just
STOP EATING, crawl off and die. No masses of dead snail shells they
just stop showing up! The rest of bait material gets used by plants as
iron fertilizer. It's NON TOXIC! Unless your a snail! Got to locate a
small amount of IRON PHOSPHATE powder? At one percent concentration,
you could make a very large amount. Probably mixing it in well with
corn meal, should be a good bait? Possibly wetting to get a hard
pellet, unless this changes the iron phosphate?
Applying at least twice, first to kill the adults and then again (in a
couple of weeks?) to kill the hatchlings, seems to be an important
schedule to follow, in order to wipe out all the snails for an
extended time.
Anywhere to get IRON PHOPHATE?
-
Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do It Yourself Doctoring – Wish List
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7eaf17d07ad11e9c?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 2:19 pm
From: tgideas@athenet.net

Most, if not all, of us diagnose and treat ourselves, as evidenced by
the huge Over-The-Counter Drug market. Yet, how efficient are we at
this process? I know I'm not. If I had better tools and knowledge, I
think I could diagnose and treat my own health conditions better.

Here's my Wish-List. How about you? What would you like to see
happen in self-diagnosis and treatment?

1. A free computer-based one-stop Medical Advisor that would check
more than just symptoms. I'd like to see Symptom Checkers have the
capability for the user to input Vital Signs, Diagnostic Test Results,
and Health History. Based on these inputs, the computer would give
the user most probable Diagnoses. The user then picks a diagnosis.
The computer would then give a personalized printed "prescription" for
Over-The-Counter Medicines, Exercise, Diet, Treatments, etc. that
might help the user's condition. Think of this as a "Super Symptom
Checker". Examples of existing Symptom Checkers are WebMD, Medical
Symptoms Database , Online Medical Symptom Checker , MSO Online
Medical Symptom Checker , or Diagnosaurus, etc.

2. More home health tests and tools available openly on pharmacy
shelves. Examples – Home General Health Diagnostic Tests,
Stethoscopes, etc.

3. Self-Service Health Kiosks in pharmacies that would include a
computer-based Medical Advisor, basic medical testing capabilities,
and where the user could provide health history on a removable memory
card.

4. Health care professionals make free pre-recorded training sessions
on how to diagnose and treat ourselves for common sicknesses.

For more information and diagram, please go to http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dswxq4k_19pz6xwk7x

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 2:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

tgideas@athenet.net wrote:

> Most, if not all, of us diagnose and treat ourselves, as evidenced by
> the huge Over-The-Counter Drug market. Yet, how efficient are we
> at this process? I know I'm not. If I had better tools and knowledge,
> I think I could diagnose and treat my own health conditions better.

Trouble is that there is no way to do what matters, the tests.

> Here's my Wish-List. How about you? What would you
> like to see happen in self-diagnosis and treatment?

> 1. A free computer-based one-stop Medical Advisor that
> would check more than just symptoms. I'd like to see
> Symptom Checkers have the capability for the user to
> input Vital Signs, Diagnostic Test Results, and Health History.

Its more practical to get a GP to do that stuff.

> Based on these inputs, the computer would give the user most probable Diagnoses.

Thats not how a GP does it. They consider the most probable diagnosis and
then order tests which will decide which of the possibilitys is the real diagnosis.

> The user then picks a diagnosis. The computer would then give a
> personalized printed "prescription" for Over-The-Counter Medicines,
> Exercise, Diet, Treatments, etc. that might help the user's condition.

Makes no sense to do that until further test prove what the condition is.

And then quite a bit of the time you need a prescription for the meds
that will do something effective about the problem you actually have.

> Think of this as a "Super Symptom Checker".

The trouble is that it cant do what a GP does, order appropriate tests.

And for the simpler stuff that doesnt need diagnostic tests or prescriptions,
there isnt really any need for any software to do the diagnosis in most cases.

> Examples of existing Symptom Checkers are WebMD, Medical
> Symptoms Database , Online Medical Symptom Checker , MSO
> Online Medical Symptom Checker , or Diagnosaurus, etc.

> 2. More home health tests and tools available openly on pharmacy shelves.
> Examples – Home General Health Diagnostic Tests, Stethoscopes, etc.

Yes, but without the medical training, a stethoscope is no use except to
decide if the individual is dead and there are better ways of deciding that.

> 3. Self-Service Health Kiosks in pharmacies that would include a
> computer-based Medical Advisor, basic medical testing capabilities, and
> where the user could provide health history on a removable memory card.

Makes a lot more sense to use a GP for that sort of thing.

> 4. Health care professionals make free pre-recorded training sessions
> on how to diagnose and treat ourselves for common sicknesses.

But again, there is no way to do the tests.

> For more information and diagram, please go to
> http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dswxq4k_19pz6xwk7x

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 3:21 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Nov 1, 4:19 pm, tgid...@athenet.net wrote:
> Most, if not all, of us diagnose and treat ourselves, as evidenced by
> the huge Over-The-Counter Drug market. Yet, how efficient are we at
> this process? I know I'm not. If I had better tools and knowledge, I
> think I could diagnose and treat my own health conditions better.
>
> Here's my Wish-List. How about you? What would you like to see
> happen in self-diagnosis and treatment?
>
> 1. A free computer-based one-stop Medical Advisor that would check
> more than just symptoms. I'd like to see Symptom Checkers have the
> capability for the user to input Vital Signs, Diagnostic Test Results,
> and Health History. Based on these inputs, the computer would give
> the user most probable Diagnoses. The user then picks a diagnosis.
> The computer would then give a personalized printed "prescription" for
> Over-The-Counter Medicines, Exercise, Diet, Treatments, etc. that
> might help the user's condition. Think of this as a "Super Symptom
> Checker". Examples of existing Symptom Checkers are WebMD, Medical
> Symptoms Database , Online Medical Symptom Checker , MSO Online
> Medical Symptom Checker , or Diagnosaurus, etc.
>
> 2. More home health tests and tools available openly on pharmacy
> shelves. Examples – Home General Health Diagnostic Tests,
> Stethoscopes, etc.
>
> 3. Self-Service Health Kiosks in pharmacies that would include a
> computer-based Medical Advisor, basic medical testing capabilities,
> and where the user could provide health history on a removable memory
> card.
>
> 4. Health care professionals make free pre-recorded training sessions
> on how to diagnose and treat ourselves for common sicknesses.
>
> For more information and diagram, please go tohttp://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dswxq4k_19pz6xwk7x

I applaud the direction of your thinking, but the general public is
not capable of using such a super diagnosis machine without getting
into trouble. The health sites are pretty good and they have
disclaimers all over. The liability on such a machine at the pharmacy
would be prohibitive. Doctors actually do use a symptom based software
search at times to help diagnose. The doctors are often wrong even
when they have the patient in hand. I think the best thing is to live
a healthy lifestyle and avoid as much of the health care system as
possible. How far you go depends on the risk you are willing to take.
I pulled a tooth a few months ago to save money and it worked out OK.
I have also done some stitching and very minor hand surgery that
consisted of cutting off some scare tissue.
As far as testing, I would like to see a CBC, complete blood count,
available in a kit that could be sent off and returned. That is still
subject to much interpretation, but perhaps just sending the raw
numbers would not be too much of a liability. The doctors often pass
on the results of such tests and a chart showing the normal ranges and
potential reasons for abnormalities. It would take legislation to
allow some of these self tests to avoid litigation. I believe a person
has the right to facts about his own situation. Perhaps the coming
drain on the health care system would drive more self testing.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sound Insulate my computer?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/887848c5574eb729?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 2:21 pm
From: MarkPHd21@gmail.com

hi all,

i'm looking for creative ways to sound insulate
a noisy computer, that sits under my desk

[the thing has 3 fans going!]
any ideas?

thanks
mark

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 2:47 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

MarkPHd21@gmail.com wrote

> i'm looking for creative ways to sound insulate
> a noisy computer, that sits under my desk

> [the thing has 3 fans going!]
> any ideas?

Makes a lot more sense to use quiet fans.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 2:56 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Nov 1, 4:21 pm, MarkPH...@gmail.com wrote:
> hi all,
>
> i'm looking for creative ways to sound insulate
> a noisy computer, that sits under my desk
>
> [the thing has 3 fans going!]
> any ideas?
>
> thanks
> mark

Now that you mention it and I concentrate on it, I can hear mine too.
Of course I operate mine with the cover off and it's overhead for easy
reach. I have to wonder why this normal sound is enough to bother
you. If I had a radio or TV on I could not tell the noise over that
TV. So background noise would be one answer if you desire. It's going
to be hard to deaden that sound without wasting time and money. If
that's your choice, you could glue sound deadening material about the
box while leaving the doors and vents open. That would only be a
partial fix. You could move the box a distance away behind something
and use necessary extensions such as a powered USB hub with
extensions. It would be an interesting project to build a sound
canceling device that would allow everything else to sit in place.
Such devices are being designed and may already be ready in high level
vehicles. You might Google in that direction.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 3:09 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Nov 1, 2:21 pm, MarkPH...@gmail.com wrote:
> hi all,
>
> i'm looking for creative ways to sound insulate
> a noisy computer, that sits under my desk
>
> [the thing has 3 fans going!]
> any ideas?
>
> thanks
> mark

1. Clean the fans with some canned air (slightly clogged fans are
noisier).
2. Find some "Marvel Miracle Oil" to lubricate the ball bearings of
the fans
3. Move the PC to another room and get a very long monitor cable :P
4. Wear ear plugs
5. Play music on the stereo that's louder than the PC fans

You definitely don't want to "insulate" the PC as this could cause too
much heat build up resulting in the premature death of the CPU or MB.
It needs to exhaust that heat and that's what those fans are for.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 8:02 pm
From: E Z Peaces

MarkPHd21@gmail.com wrote:
> hi all,
>
> i'm looking for creative ways to sound insulate
> a noisy computer, that sits under my desk
>
> [the thing has 3 fans going!]
> any ideas?
>
> thanks
> mark

For ten years I had a computer with two fans. That model sounded like a
jet but had plenty of air to cool whatever one might install inside.
One disadvantage was that I couldn't hear other things as well. Another
was that more air meant more dust.

If the fans were noisier than usual, I knew it was time to open the box
to clean the fan blades. I'd also clean any dust that had accumulated
inside, taking care not to cause electrostatic damage. Cleaning can
keep components cooler. With some computers, that can mean fans will
run slower and more quietly.

Sleeve bearings are popular in computer fans because they are cheap.
Noise may signal a worn bearing. Also, some fans are designed to be
quieter than others. The noise level is usually listed in the specs.
It would have been pretty cheap to reduce noise by buying quieter fans.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 9:39 pm
From: "Dave"

<MarkPHd21@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:292f05b0-d693-4208-9854-d5985d83c885@f37g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> hi all,
>
> i'm looking for creative ways to sound insulate
> a noisy computer, that sits under my desk
>
> [the thing has 3 fans going!]
> any ideas?
>
> thanks
> mark

The problem with sound insulating the computer, is that the insulation will
hold in heat.

If you are trying to quiet a computer, the solution is counter-intuitive.
You have to open it up as much as possible (reduce resistance to airflow),
and add more fans (yup, I said more fans... but I didn't say more NOISY
fans).

Unless you are willing to replace the whole case, the computer is already
opened up as much as possible.

So let's look at the fans. Keep in mind that ONE noisy fan can easily be
more noisy (higher volume level) than SEVERAL quiet fans, combined. If the
case fans you are using came with the case, they ARE the NOISY kind.

So get some quiet ones. Case fans are typically 80mm or 120mm, and I
recommend Antec tricool fans to replace the noisy ones. Antec Tricool are
not particularly "quiet", but they are adjustable...and at medium setting,
hard to hear. Three tricools together will be much quieter than ONE of your
current fans.

I'm afraid replacing the case fans is the best you can do, if you want an
inexpensive solution. Keep in mind that if you replace the case fans, you
might still have a noisy (fan noise) system due to high-reving (LOUD) fans
on the Northbridge, GPU, CPU and power supply.

Too late now, but if you ever rebuild that system, look for:
1) PASSIVE cooling on the mainboard chipset (no fan on motherboard)
2) PASSIVE cooling on the video card (they do make them without fans, even
gaming video cards!)
3) A quiet power supply. Try a Seasonic brand or an Antec Earthwatts
series (Antec Earthwatts is made by Seasonic or Delta...both are quiet)
4) Look for a case with good airflow (read reviews), and equip it with 2 or
3 quiet case fans (under 28 dBA maximum, read the specs.)
5) Boxed retail coolers are OK for the CPU (noisewise) but try to get a
motherboard that can control the CPU fan speed based on CPU temp. (the CPU
fan will run slow/quiet unless it really needs to speed up) -Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Penis Enlargement Exercises
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee0412f1507f31d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 3:31 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 28, 9:27 am, ejn14ls6 <besttravelu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The First Penis Enlargement Exercise Program under Clinical Trial
> Pennis Health. Find out how to get bigger
> 300+ videos and photos, 35 unique exercises, 24 hour support, and a 6
> month guarantee
>
> __________________________________

I think we are all aware of the main exercise in this category. I did
not know there were 35 unique ways to perform it though.
You certainly must be an expert.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ** Boobie Breast Plate ARmOr Body Armor ProTecTor Video ***
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e933c43305f954cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 6:14 pm
From: rapidshareboobs1@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maximizing Welfare
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9949fc83cc11aec3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 6:25 pm
From: "Bruce C. Miller"

On Oct 28, 12:44 am, JonL <J...@Mayday.com> wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> > What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
> > Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
> > is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
> > or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>
> > Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
> > benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>
> > Thanks for any info.
>
> My first guess would be Calif., esp- the SF area. A while back 2
> counties in Northern Cal were even giving homeless guys about $350 per
> mo.(some were caught double-dipping)
>
> In most cities/states a healthy male with no dependents will get very
> little, plus you may have to forfeit any assets, such as a car. Also,
> you may be required to work p/t in city parks and document your
> job-hunting on your off days. Not a good retirement plan.
>
> Better to try hitting the jackpot with a lawsuit. Trucking companies
> have good insurance. Stand on a highway overpass, when you see a truck
> barreling towards you in the left lane, jump!
>
> hth

I checked CA's "Department of Social Services" website and according
to the latest pdf, a "single recipient" was getting $468/mo. Not bad
at all, especially if you don't live in the city. But, it doesn't say
what, if any, kind of red tape is involved, or any other stipulations.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 6:31 pm
From: "Bruce C. Miller"

On Oct 28, 9:44 am, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> > What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
> > Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
> > is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
> > or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>
> > Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
> > benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>
> > Thanks for any info.
>
> It sounds like you may be singing the loser's anthem before the game
> even starts. Perhaps more facts would allow people to offer more
> helpful ideas. Are you disabled, lazy, alien or whatever? Each
> situation could point to different answers. Of course, we know you are
> asking for a friend.

No, not disabled. I'm just seeing what my options are, and how viable
an option going on welfare is as opposed to working.

There's a lot of overhead involved in having a job. Most people don't
factor this in as debits against their income, not to mention the time
and mental costs of working. I suspect if most people really thought
about it, they would realize how little they're actually left with at
the end of the day. Cashing a welfare check, on the other hand, is
100% profit (or almost, like in the case where you have to pretend to
be looking for a job).

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 7:37 pm
From: lisajoe@privacy.net

On Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:31:22 -0700 (PDT), in misc.consumers.frugal-living "Bruce
C. Miller" <bm3719@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 28, 9:44 am, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>> > What US state can a single male with no kids collect the most welfare?
>> > Food stamps and other perks are a plus as well. Another consideration
>> > is any maximum limits on the amount of time you can receive payments
>> > or any red tape they put you through to get it.
>>
>> > Or, if anyone knows of a state-by-state comparison of welfare
>> > benefits, I'd also be interested in that too.
>>
>> > Thanks for any info.
>>
>> It sounds like you may be singing the loser's anthem before the game
>> even starts. Perhaps more facts would allow people to offer more
>> helpful ideas. Are you disabled, lazy, alien or whatever? Each
>> situation could point to different answers. Of course, we know you are
>> asking for a friend.
>
>No, not disabled. I'm just seeing what my options are, and how viable
>an option going on welfare is as opposed to working.
>
>There's a lot of overhead involved in having a job. Most people don't
>factor this in as debits against their income, not to mention the time
>and mental costs of working. I suspect if most people really thought
>about it, they would realize how little they're actually left with at
>the end of the day. Cashing a welfare check, on the other hand, is
>100% profit (or almost, like in the case where you have to pretend to
>be looking for a job).

ggod luck getting welfare if you are a single non-disabled male. also many if
not most statea require you to work to get welfare.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 1 2008 8:20 pm
From: The Real Bev

Bruce C. Miller wrote:

> Cashing a welfare check, on the other hand, is
> 100% profit (or almost, like in the case where you have to pretend to
> be looking for a job).

Unemployment insurance isn't free just because it's not a line item on
your paycheck. You paid for it, so there's no shame in collecting it.

--
Cheers,
Bev
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
This is Usenet. We *are* the trained body for dealing
with psychotics. -- A. Dingley

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3 new messages in 2 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Cork hard to come by on wine bottles? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b0408d66c4c1ad4?hl=en
* Cheap isolation against freezing pipes in winter? Have a question, guys... -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccc7a45c5d21ff98?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Dennis wrote

>> Ask a wine-drinking friend, a restaurant or a wine shop for a spare cork. Or just go to your local homebrew/wine
>> making shop and buy a handful of new real corks for a dollar or two.

>> Jeez, you're making this way more complicated than it is. Maybe you just needed to whine.

> I remember reading somewhere that it was recently discovered that
> aluminum caps work better than corks -- even for expensive wine. Is
> this Alcoa propaganda?

Nope, its true. The only problem is that stupid wine snobs demand corks and get it when its expensive wine.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:43 pm
From: websurf1@cox.net

On Oct 31, 10:56 am, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Jeez, you're making this way more complicated than it is. Maybe you
> just needed to whine.

I think so as well
We bought a kit with a couple rubber stopper type things, which work
just fine.
If we want to bother, we can also pump the air out of the bottle to
protect the wine if we want to save it that long.
It usually isn't necessary <g>

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:50 pm
From: websurf1@cox.net