Frugal Living: Sep 10, 2008

Wednesday, September 10, 2008

26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unplug your cable. Get TV over the internet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac4fe22465227d21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:04 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

>Back in March I posted a message where I told everyone here
>that I was pulling the plug on Comca$t and I was going to
>get all my TV viewing off the internet. Well, the results
>are in and the results are mixed. I thought that the rest
>of the group might be intrested. So I created a web page
>at www.gordonreeder.com/content/TVoIP.html. I'm not selling
>anything, there are no ads, and no click throughs. Just
>trying to share some knowledge.

I for one am very interested in your
experiment as I've thought abt doing
same thing...getting ALL programming off
the Net and forgetting abt off air or
cable

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:48 pm
From: Gordon

" Frank" <x> wrote in news:38KdnaF9fINtZlvVnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast.com:

>
> "Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B1495E0A82B8greederxprtnet@194.177.96.26...
>> Back in March I posted a message where I told everyone here
>> that I was pulling the plug on Comca$t and I was going to
>> get all my TV viewing off the internet. Well, the results
>> are in and the results are mixed. I thought that the rest
>> of the group might be intrested. So I created a web page
>> at www.gordonreeder.com/content/TVoIP.html. I'm not selling
>> anything, there are no ads, and no click throughs. Just
>> trying to share some knowledge.
>>
>
> The above link doesn't work. Is this the one?
> http://mysite.verizon.net/g_reeder/Content/TVoIP.html
>
>

Yes. The first link should redirect there. I'm not sure
why it didn't.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 3:04 pm
From: Gordon

me@privacy.net wrote in news:vgdgc4dbpn02q0otcvtpfqu15udhkhp9nf@4ax.com:

> Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>
>>Back in March I posted a message where I told everyone here
>>that I was pulling the plug on Comca$t and I was going to
>>get all my TV viewing off the internet. Well, the results
>>are in and the results are mixed. I thought that the rest
>>of the group might be intrested. So I created a web page
>>at www.gordonreeder.com/content/TVoIP.html. I'm not selling
>>anything, there are no ads, and no click throughs. Just
>>trying to share some knowledge.
>
> I for one am very interested in your
> experiment as I've thought abt doing
> same thing...getting ALL programming off
> the Net and forgetting abt off air or
> cable
>

Off air is pretty much free. All you need is one of those
digital converter boxes and an antenna. Once you have
that set up you can get a pretty good picture, if you have
decent reception. Since digital TV allows sub channels,
you will find that you have more content with a DTV
converter.
FWIW: Of the 12 local TV stations, only 2 have live internet
streams. And those are limited to locally produced shows.
Apearently the networks don't allow their local affiliats to
broadcast network content outside their local coverage areas.

TVoIP is still a very leading edge technology. Not eveyone
has heard about it. Including people in the entertainment
industry that should know about it. So some of the programming
that you would normally watch on cable can be pretty hard to find.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are there good reasons to leave your computer on?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/687c8842ea058153?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:17 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 20:49:00 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
wrote:

>
>"Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:g8mdc4tltlf8leitkndba13sep1rg2ejuq@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 14:56:45 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:8190553d-c364-4f39-a152-b741d9b145b7@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Considering 24X365 hours in a year, if electricity costs 1 cent per
>>>> hour for your computer, it would cost $87 a year or over $170 if 2
>>>> cents per hour.
>>>
>>>I need my computer at least once an hour, 16-18 hours a day. Waiting for
>>>it
>>>to boot would waste a helluva lot more than 16-18 cents of my time.
>>>
>>
>> I have mine set to go to sleep (the lowest level of standby, HD off,
>> fans off) after a period of inactivity.
>
>Well, yeah, doesn't everyone? Of course it's set to "sleep" or "hibernate"
>or whatever they're calling it this year, but it's still "on" all the time.
>

If the the goal is minimal power usage along with minimal time to come
back to a usable state, then standby mode is a good tradeoff. As I
wrote (and you snipped), I've measured less than 4W of power
consumption in sleep mode on my PC (vs. 80-100W awake but idle).

Note that I'm not talking about a screen saver, but S3 standby mode of
the PC, with HD and fans off and minimal power to MB/CPU/memory.

There is a nice tool for setting up standby and other power management
controls on Windows available for free download at:

http://slicksolutions.eu/mst.shtml

I have used this tool and found it useful.

Dennis (evil)
--
An inherent weakness of a pure democracy is that half
the voters are below average intelligence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anti-spyware ap?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd0862cab1997147?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:29 pm
From: Dennis

On 10 Sep 2008 15:52:52 GMT, Ken <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:

>Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?

I run the free version of AVG. It combines anti-virus and
anti-spyware. Works for me.

Dennis (evil)
--
My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 4:40 pm
From: imascot

Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in news:3tegc41tmgao92admoao8s46m67fuk5nie@4ax.com:

> On 10 Sep 2008 15:52:52 GMT, Ken <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?
>
> I run the free version of AVG. It combines anti-virus and
> anti-spyware. Works for me.
>
> Dennis (evil)

I use Spyware Blaster (free) which is supposed to prevent spyware from getting on in the first place, plus
Adaware and AVG. I used to use Spybot, but after a few updates, it started butting in constantly to the
point where I removed it.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 6:49 pm
From: Derald

Ken <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:

>Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?
After years of use, became displeased with current versions of
Adaware and AVGfree. Continue to use Spybot S&D (v1.6.0) but --on
recommendation from a knowledgable poster in alt.comp.freeware --
replaced the other two with Super Anti Spyware from here:
http://www.superantispyware.com/
and with Avira antiVir from here: http://www.free-av.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Electricity Rates - wasRe: Home heating oil price?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:39 pm
From: "Matthew Beasley"

"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:j03ec4h73jsjfq75jhcer6ud2u73tq1gej@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:58:50 -0700, "Matthew Beasley" <nobody@spam.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Dump them and form a co-op..... I'm a free market guy, but a utility
>>isn't
>>a free market.
>
> Want to go to the moon? Then build a rocket and go. That'd be about as
> easy
> as forming a co-op in an area with existing infrastructure.

OK, then form a PUD. It's been done here before. They condem the utility's
infastructure and issue bonds to pay off the payment to the IOU.

> A co-op wouldn't save them any money in Larry's situation anyway, since it
> would have to buy power from for-profit generators. Look at his delivery
> charge. That would remain, at least in part, with a co-op, as the power
> has
> to be delivered to the co-op's boundary.

Being a public utility would give them first tier access to BPA. (Larry is
also in BPA's territory.)

The other big benefit is far greater reliability. I'm at the edge of the
service territory, and PP&L serves my neighbors on the other side of the
valley. They're out FAR more often then my side of the valley. More than
1/2 of the line between town and me is now underground. They run a program
where they look at the most beneficial place to put in underground wires.
The lines are up and down repeatedly, since they don't bother where it's
going through or adjacent to pasture land, but stick it underground anywhere
the line is near trees. They are also adding an alternative route, so we
will have two routes to power to a junction 2 miles from me from two diverse
substations. Consumers has put in reclosers all along the route, PP&L is
fuse only the whole way.

>
> Co-ops work best in places like here where the power is delivered by a
> public
> utility - TVA - and passed through at cost plus operating expenses. A
> well-run municipal utility can do it even cheaper. For example, the same
> TVA
> power is about a cent a kWh cheaper in Cleveland (Cleveland Utilities,
> owned
> by the city) than here under a Co-op.

I've seen both ends on a municipal utility. If they run it to deliver power
and only deliver power, they're great. They also have only the cheapest
customers to service, those that are all packed together. Any other utility
has at least some rural residents with higher capital and upkeep costs.
OTOH, the city can treat it as a revenue stream and ream folks. I like the
idea that in a PUD / Co-op, the election is for the utility, and the utility
alone.

> Just out of curiosity, what Co-op are you with?

Consumer's Power

> Do they have a rate card
> available on-line?

Nope, but here it is for residential:

*Power Supply Charge:
All kwh = $0.03964/kwh
Distribution Charge:
0 - 1300 kwh = $0.03576/kwh
> 1300 kwh = $0.02776/kwh$8 meter charge for the first meter, $5 for
additional meters on the same account.I also have the commercial schedule at
home if you're interested.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Britney Spears for Vice President!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/41617a060889d131?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 3:14 pm
From: krw

In article <%2Hxk.22082$89.12875@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, bent_peg69
@worldnet.att.net says...
> Fwiw, Palin has been a Republican since 1982. Check current Newsweek.
>
> However, I feel the Muslim Obama will be better for America in the long term
> since the Muslim religion is the largest in the world. His (sealed)
> racist's wife's doctoral thesis from Princeton should appease the
> African-Americans as well. Between the two, America should be safe from the
> divisive problems experienced in Europe like France's recent Muslim
> demonstrations and burnings.

Right. The UK had nothing to fear from Hitler.

--
Keith

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Update to Prepaid Cellular Site
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b9c64361ec1224e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 3:46 pm
From: Gordon

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
news:xuxxk.20404$jI5.10460@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com:

> I have updated my web site on prepaid cellular service at:
> "http://prepaiduswireless.com/"
>
> This is a non-commercial site that I put together because I was
> constantly e-mailing people information regarding which prepaid
> wireless plans were the best deals.
>
> There are presently four ways to get prepaid cellular for under $2.50
> per month:
>
> T-Mobile: As low as 74¢/month, as low as 8.8¢/minute (T-Moble network)
>
> PagePlus: As low as $2.35/month, as low as 5.4¢/minute (Verizon
> network)
>
> 7-11: SpeakOut $2.08/month, 15¢/minute (AT&T network)
>
> ARN: As low as 21¢ per month, as low as 25¢/minute (CDMA and AMPS
> networks))
>
> If you know of any better deals than these, let me know.
>

Good site. Very informitive. I've been searching for a
good prepaid cell plan to use as a 2nd phone. I had already
eliminated from consideration all the big plans that you
suggest avoiding (Trac phone, etc). I was pretty much
zeroing in on 7-11 Speak out. But I was unaware that there
was both a CDMA and GSM version.
I'm wondering why you prefer the GSM plan over the CDMA plan?
The CDMA plan would use the Verizon network around here. That
would be the best network in these parts.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 3:59 pm
From: imascot

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
news:jGCxk.594$Z64.136@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com:

> imascot wrote:
>
>> Great site, very informative. However, my Page Plus phone roamed
>> just fine in Vancouver, and it also roamed in the U.S. Virgin
>> Islands.
>
> Interesting. Two years ago my kids had them in Canada (Calgary) and
> there was no service at all on them. I'd expect it to work in the
> Virgin Islands. Were you charged the higher rate for roaming?
>
> PagePlus is really amazing. I'm hoping that Verizon continues to let
> them resell service for a long time.
>

I was charged the roaming rate, but at least I could use the phone. My husband brought his Nextel,
he had no service, and my kids brought their Tracfones, and they had no service.

I like Page Plus, too. But when I recommend it to people, they are all excited until they hear about
the odd way you have to activate a phone. ("So, I have to go on Ebay to find someone to make it
work.........................?") So I just tell the ones I think can handle it, or I set it up for them, like I did
for my parents.

The most fun I had was when I took my phone to a Verizon store to have the firmware updated. The
know-it-all tech kid couldn't figure out why my number didn't come up in the Verizon computer. So,
to enlighten by confusing, I said, "Well, it's through Page Plus." He didn't want to admit that he had
no idea what I was referring to.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 6:22 pm
From: George Grapman

imascot wrote:
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
> news:jGCxk.594$Z64.136@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com:
>
>> imascot wrote:
>>
>>> Great site, very informative. However, my Page Plus phone roamed
>>> just fine in Vancouver, and it also roamed in the U.S. Virgin
>>> Islands.
>> Interesting. Two years ago my kids had them in Canada (Calgary) and
>> there was no service at all on them. I'd expect it to work in the
>> Virgin Islands. Were you charged the higher rate for roaming?
>>
>> PagePlus is really amazing. I'm hoping that Verizon continues to let
>> them resell service for a long time.
>>
>
> I was charged the roaming rate, but at least I could use the phone. My husband brought his Nextel,
> he had no service, and my kids brought their Tracfones, and they had no service.
>
> I like Page Plus, too. But when I recommend it to people, they are all excited until they hear about
> the odd way you have to activate a phone. ("So, I have to go on Ebay to find someone to make it
> work.........................?") So I just tell the ones I think can handle it, or I set it up for them, like I did
> for my parents.
>
> The most fun I had was when I took my phone to a Verizon store to have the firmware updated. The
> know-it-all tech kid couldn't figure out why my number didn't come up in the Verizon computer. So,
> to enlighten by confusing, I said, "Well, it's through Page Plus." He didn't want to admit that he had

> no idea what I was referring to.
>
> J.

I work in telecom and the three words that give me the most
credibility are "I don't know".

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 6:50 pm
From: SMS

imascot wrote:

> I was charged the roaming rate, but at least I could use the phone. My husband brought his Nextel,
> he had no service, and my kids brought their Tracfones, and they had no service.

I remember being at the Anchorage airport and talking on my Verizon
phone, when Nextel and GSM customers had no coverage at all. GSM came
late to Alaska.

> I like Page Plus, too. But when I recommend it to people, they are all excited until they hear about
> the odd way you have to activate a phone. ("So, I have to go on Ebay to find someone to make it
> work.........................?") So I just tell the ones I think can handle it, or I set it up for them, like I did
> for my parents.

Well you can go to Ugly Eric at
"http://www.uglyeric.com/activation.html" but that may qualify as even
odder!

> The most fun I had was when I took my phone to a Verizon store to have the firmware updated. The
> know-it-all tech kid couldn't figure out why my number didn't come up in the Verizon computer. So,
> to enlighten by confusing, I said, "Well, it's through Page Plus." He didn't want to admit that he had
> no idea what I was referring to.

Yet if you call a PagePlus phone that's turned off, you get the a
Verizon message.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 6:51 pm
From: SMS

Gordon wrote:

> I'm wondering why you prefer the GSM plan over the CDMA plan?
> The CDMA plan would use the Verizon network around here. That
> would be the best network in these parts.

The CDMA plan is probably fine, but they charge more per minute.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:30 pm
From: Derald

imascot <imnot@mycomputer.now> wrote:

>all excited until they hear about the odd way you have to activate a phone.
I found nothing odd about calling a customer service number and
following instructions received from a human being.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The wrong response to higher food prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7667014efbaf7d86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 9:52 am
From: timeOday

<http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/09/pf/food_downsizing/index.htm>
"As manufacturers cope with the rising cost of raw ingredients and fuel,
downsizing their package sizes is one increasingly popular way to pass
along a price increase without drawing too much attention."
------------------------

Fortunately, the government requires producers to indicate the net
weight of the food on the packaging, and the grocery store indicates the
price per ounce. So the somewhat deceptive aspect of this is manageable.

My real problem with this policy is that packaging is expensive. Buying
larger quantities at a time is one way to save money, yet producers are
doing the opposite. So this particular response to higher food prices
just exacerbates the problem!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Grills still using ceramic bricks or lava rocks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f5ecb2d7e113da43?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 5:02 pm
From: imascot

Does anyone know of a propane grill that still uses ceramic bricks or lava rocks? We had a cheap Fiesta
grill that had them, and it lasted for years. The Kenmore we have now is only five years old, and it is
rusted through, which is bad enough, but the main problem is the design that allows grease to pool in
the bottom, instead of burning off almost immediately. It fills the catch can to overflowing, and the
patio is stained from it spilling, etc. The rusting is probably caused by this, too (we keep it covered
when not in use.)
I don't see any new grills in the stores that still use this system. We would even consider buying a better
brand used, if they had this, like maybe a Weber or Ducane?
J.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 7:02 pm
From: SMS

imascot wrote:
> Does anyone know of a propane grill that still uses ceramic bricks or lava rocks? We had a cheap Fiesta
> grill that had them, and it lasted for years. The Kenmore we have now is only five years old, and it is
> rusted through, which is bad enough, but the main problem is the design that allows grease to pool in
> the bottom, instead of burning off almost immediately. It fills the catch can to overflowing, and the
> patio is stained from it spilling, etc. The rusting is probably caused by this, too (we keep it covered
> when not in use.)
> I don't see any new grills in the stores that still use this system. We would even consider buying a better
> brand used, if they had this, like maybe a Weber or Ducane?

No longer available. The problem is "Kenmore." Buy a stainless steel
model at Costco, who uses higher grade steel.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: microsoft office 2007 removal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4644420a59739940?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 6:33 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <htPxk.938$1a2.223@trnddc04>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> i'm using vista 64bit. how do i remove this program?

Through the software and programs control panel.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 6:37 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-6F1308.21332710092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <htPxk.938$1a2.223@trnddc04>,
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i'm using vista 64bit. how do i remove this program?
>
> Through the software and programs control panel.

where is it? i did a search, but it didn't show up. i've only had this
computer a couple of weeks.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 7:16 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <AD_xk.997$Wd.396@trnddc01>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:srhi-6F1308.21332710092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > In article <htPxk.938$1a2.223@trnddc04>,
> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> i'm using vista 64bit. how do i remove this program?
> >
> > Through the software and programs control panel.
>
> where is it? i did a search, but it didn't show up. i've only had this
> computer a couple of weeks.

In the control panel. I don't have Vista available, but I think its
called "Programs and software" or something like that. If you still
can't find it, look under the help feature or go to
http://www.microsoft.com and search for "uninstall Office."

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:33 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-4AC6CD.22162810092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <AD_xk.997$Wd.396@trnddc01>,
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:srhi-6F1308.21332710092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> > In article <htPxk.938$1a2.223@trnddc04>,
>> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> i'm using vista 64bit. how do i remove this program?
>> >
>> > Through the software and programs control panel.
>>
>> where is it? i did a search, but it didn't show up. i've only had this
>> computer a couple of weeks.
>
> In the control panel. I don't have Vista available, but I think its
> called "Programs and software" or something like that. If you still
> can't find it, look under the help feature or go to
> http://www.microsoft.com and search for "uninstall Office."

control panel/programs&features

what a mess; add or delete programs was much better

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:36 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

thanks. the microsoft website wasn't easy help. looks like they
want hide that info as much as possible.

i'm going with open office.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 无线AP
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07f7869abc5f11e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 7:59 pm
From: srnp8atognoicl9m9eecafg@gmail.com

Sparklan 802.11g WAPR-141的无线AP(Multi-Mode AP)打破传统限制,提供WDS（repeater &
bridge mode），AP和Client模式，延伸原本的无线覆盖范围，并能灵活设置扩展Wi-Fi连接
。能够与802.11b设备能够进行无缝
连接，传输速率高达54mbps。适用于SOHO，中小企业，家庭用户，以及任何开放场所如咖
啡厅，麦当劳，肯德基，汉堡王，星巴克，图书馆，车站，地
铁站，书店，医院，机场，体育馆，博物馆，各类商城等。

WAPR-141无线AP提供高安全性的64/128位WEP加密、WPA2、WPA、802.1X加密及MAC地址过滤和
先进的管理控制可防止非授权
用户连接您的无线网络，防止黑客入侵和恶意攻击。

http://www.sparklan.cn/ap.asp

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chanel H1626 J12 Diamonds Mens Watch Recommendation Discount Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/db5afb28cc1d6b08?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:38 pm
From: blog462@watchesblog.cn

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Movado Esperanza Ladies Watch 0605090 Recommendation Discount Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2ff3f0a8e8e8ba96?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:38 pm
From: blog462@watchesblog.cn

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Bezel : Fixed
Case Thickness : 26.5mm
Water Resistant : 30m/100ft

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Other Movado Watches You Might Like

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 11:56 pm
From: "friesian@zoocrewphoto.com"

On Sep 9, 12:25 pm, johns <johns...@moscow.com> wrote:
> I build those things for a living. Leaving a pc turned
> on lowers its useful lifetime to about 3 years. Then
> it goes flakey, and I hear all the stupid reasons
> from the users ... what "they" think is wrong.
>

I used my first desktop computer for 8 years, and I left it on most of
the time.

Learn how to use "hibernate mode" and the thing
> will reboot in about 30 seconds all the way
> back to the application you left open.

I actually had problems with the hibernation mode. After using it for
a couple months, my computer started crashing a few times an hour. The
tech help told me the hibernation mode was only for short times, not
overnight, or for more than an hour or so. After I quit using the
hibernation mode, the crashing problem stopped.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:26 am
From: "Rod Speed"

friesian@zoocrewphoto.com wrote
> johns <johns...@moscow.com> wrote

>> I build those things for a living. Leaving a pc turned
>> on lowers its useful lifetime to about 3 years. Then
>> it goes flakey, and I hear all the stupid reasons
>> from the users ... what "they" think is wrong.

> I used my first desktop computer for 8 years, and I left it on most of the time.

Yep, he doesnt have a clue.

>> Learn how to use "hibernate mode" and the
>> thing will reboot in about 30 seconds all the
>> way back to the application you left open.

> I actually had problems with the hibernation mode. After using it for
> a couple months, my computer started crashing a few times an hour.
> The tech help told me the hibernation mode was only for short times,
> not overnight, or for more than an hour or so.

They didnt have a clue.

> After I quit using the hibernation mode, the crashing problem stopped.

Coincidence.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 4:53 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<417c8e67-6d87-4a79-94e0-f232864e3802@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
johns <johns321@moscow.com> wrote:

> I build those things for a living. Leaving a pc turned
> on lowers its useful lifetime to about 3 years. Then
> it goes flakey, and I hear all the stupid reasons
> from the users ... what "they" think is wrong.

I disagree. I work in the IT shop of a large university. We are one of
the largest IT organizations in one of the United States' largest
cities. We have hundreds of computers running 24x7 in our data center.
If we had to shut down our servers regularly, we would literally go out
of business due to our dependence on computers. Our servers are of all
types, from older tower boxes to rack mount servers, to new blades. All
of our servers run continuously. Many have been running continuously for
well more than three years without a problem. We do have a policy to
replace our servers every five years, but that's a relatively new policy
and there are quite a few servers in our inventory that are as old as
eight years, running continuously with just maybe just occasional failed
disk drive.

My Mac workstations at work and at home run 24x7, no problem. The
biggest problem we see with hardware failures by far is disk drives.
That's why we RAID all of our important servers and we do daily backups.
That being said, I advise people who don't shut off their computers to
do good backups regularly and keep your computer hardware on a good UPS
with surge suppression. Of course, everyone should do backups.

My PowerMac G5 at home is probably around 4 years old. I only shut it
down when the weather calls for lightning storms and when I am out of
town on vacation. My MacPro in my office at work is on 24x7 regardless
of the weather and my vacation plans because I use it as a remote backup
server when I travel and I also serve out a web site for a local
community group on it since it has a high speed Internet connection on a
T1 line. I use Macs, but plenty of my colleagues who use Dell (we're a
Dell shop where I work) workstations leave them on continuously as well
without any issues.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 4:58 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<01c92441-8716-455e-ab71-36fd9fa253e6@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sep 9, 1:53 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 9, 1:01 pm, "JonquilJan" <war...@imcnet.net> wrote:
> > >> Don't know if this helps or not - but I not only turn the computer
> > >> off in the evenings when I am done - I unplug computer and monitor
> > >> when I am finished. Basic reason is because of sudden storms and
> > >> power outages during my sleeping/bed hours. Yes I do have a surge
> > >> protector - but that doesn't protect againist lightning - at least
> > >> that's what I've been told.
> >
> > >> JonquilJan - and open to practical information from informed others
> >
> > >> Learn something new every day
> > >> As long as you are learning, you are living
> > >> When you stop learning, you start dying
> >
> > > The other "good thing" that does by unplugging the computer/monitor at
> > > night is you're killing a known energy vampire. Computers and newer
> > > monitors (LCD's) still draw power when plugged in, even if they're off
> > > (motherboard will show a light, monitor will show the orange light).
> >
> > That power use is microscopic tho.- Hide quoted text -

True, the power use is miniscule and when you do that on a desktop
system, you run down the computer's internal battery that keeps track of
the date, time, and possibly your computers hardware parameters such as
the type of video card it has (depends on the computer). The few cents
you save by unplugging your computer at night might be lost when you
have to replace its internal battery. Those who live in areas where
sudden lightning storms probably should unplug their hardware when its
not in use though because a burned out mother board is a lot more
expensive to replace then a dead battery.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 5:00 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <ga74u2$8q1$1@aioe.org>, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
wrote:

> "Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g8mdc4tltlf8leitkndba13sep1rg2ejuq@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 14:56:45 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:8190553d-c364-4f39-a152-b741d9b145b7@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Considering 24X365 hours in a year, if electricity costs 1 cent per
> >>> hour for your computer, it would cost $87 a year or over $170 if 2
> >>> cents per hour.
> >>
> >>I need my computer at least once an hour, 16-18 hours a day. Waiting for
> >>it
> >>to boot would waste a helluva lot more than 16-18 cents of my time.
> >>
> >
> > I have mine set to go to sleep (the lowest level of standby, HD off,
> > fans off) after a period of inactivity.
>
> Well, yeah, doesn't everyone? Of course it's set to "sleep" or "hibernate"
> or whatever they're calling it this year, but it's still "on" all the time.

But the cost of the power probably runs only a few cents per year in
sleep mode, which is why I do ... sort of. I disable processor sleep,
but allow the display and disk drive to sleep. I don't know how Windows
works, but with a Mac, if the processor sleeps, it tends to lose its
network connectivity, despite what Apple may say to the contrary. The
first thing I do with any desktop Mac I buy is set up the energy saver
settings. With my Mac laptops tough, I just use the default settings.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 10:01 am
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 9, 11:56 pm, "fries...@zoocrewphoto.com"
<fries...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 12:25 pm, johns <johns...@moscow.com> wrote:
>
> > I build those things for a living. Leaving a pc turned
> > on lowers its useful lifetime to about 3 years. Then
> > it goes flakey, and I hear all the stupid reasons
> > from the users ... what "they" think is wrong.
>
> I used my first desktop computer for 8 years, and I left it on most of
> the time.
>
> Learn how to use "hibernate mode" and the thing
>
> > will reboot in about 30 seconds all the way
> > back to the application you left open.
>
> I actually had problems with the hibernation mode. After using it for
> a couple months, my computer started crashing a few times an hour. The
> tech help told me the hibernation mode was only for short times, not
> overnight, or for more than an hour or so. After I quit using the
> hibernation mode, the crashing problem stopped.

Standby is for short times; hibernate is for longer, including
overnight. The tech was feeding you a line of horse hockey! Not
saying that some systems don't have problems with hibernate, but it's
usually due to some legacy driver that conflicts.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you still do your own oil change?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00739344169b1364?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 12:09 am
From: "Forrest"

"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:01ca5dea-74f9-428c-9c7c-e00c9909960b@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>I keep saying to myself I'm too old to do it just to save 5 bucks.
> However every time they have a special on oil and filters I get
> another batch.

I always have and will, as long as my body holds out. I don't trust anybody
to doing something right, when it comes to the car. If the tranny blew, I
would have to trust, but not for oil changes etc. Besides, the money saved
buys me a six pack that I can consume while giving things a good going over,
under the hood. Hell, get wild and break out a few rags and the Armorall. I
would much rather do that than wait in some line for who knows what .... and
how well.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:35 am
From: clams_casino

1297 wrote:

>Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"1297" <1297@npspam.com> wrote in message
>>news:6ilfngFqr7i7U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>Only a fool changes the oil every other month.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Only a fool doesn't change oil every 5k miles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Barking mad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I expect my vehicles to last a minimum of 250K miles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>My last one lasted 35+ years with no oil changes at all outside the
>>>first year.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oil changes are a minimal / essentially negligible cost to extend
>>>>the life span.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Have fun explaining how mine lasted 35+ years, 300K miles without
>>>any outside the first year.
>>>
>>>
>>Of course, you did have to add a quart or two with every fillup.
>>
>>
>
>Nope, nothing like it.
>
>
>
>
Rod's magic fairy does it while he sleeps.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:49 am
From: SMS

Bob F wrote:

> And then there's the parts left off because the oil place doesn't like them in
> the way. The one time I paid for an oil change (After surgery), they left the
> cover under the engine off when they returned it to me. When I complained, they
> told me they should have charged me more because of the cover, then put it back
> in place.

Actually I _would_ expect a place like Jiffy Lube to charge extra $5 or
so for removal and re-installation of a skid plate, but I'd also expect
them to tell you in advance, and re-install it without being asked.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 1:24 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 00:09:33 -0700, "Forrest"
<REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:01ca5dea-74f9-428c-9c7c-e00c9909960b@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>I keep saying to myself I'm too old to do it just to save 5 bucks.
>> However every time they have a special on oil and filters I get
>> another batch.
>
>I always have and will, as long as my body holds out. I don't trust anybody
>to doing something right, when it comes to the car. If the tranny blew, I
>would have to trust, but not for oil changes etc. Besides, the money saved
>buys me a six pack that I can consume while giving things a good going over,
>under the hood. Hell, get wild and break out a few rags and the Armorall. I
>would much rather do that than wait in some line for who knows what .... and
>how well.
>

Right there with ya. I have a good set of tools and a nice dry
workshop -- might as well put them to good use. I actually kind of
enjoy this kind of tinkering. With a pair of nitrile gloves, I don't
even get my hands dirty, and it gives me a chance to give the old
buggy the once over a couple times a year to head off problems before
they strand me somewhere.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 4:39 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <Xns9B1495E0A82B8greederxprtnet@194.177.96.26>,
Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

> Back in March I posted a message where I told everyone here
> that I was pulling the plug on Comca$t and I was going to
> get all my TV viewing off the internet. Well, the results
> are in and the results are mixed. I thought that the rest
> of the group might be intrested. So I created a web page
> at www.gordonreeder.com/content/TVoIP.html. I'm not selling
> anything, there are no ads, and no click throughs. Just
> trying to share some knowledge.

Good for you. I like high definition video. For me to watch a one hour
show at my download rate would take way too long. I also have Comcast as
my ISP. I could get DSL, but all my neighbors tell me it sucks in our
area. So, for now, Comcast is the only game in town for broadband ISP in
my area. We're supposed to get FIOS in another year. When FIOS is
available, I will definitely switch.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 2:04 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

I for one am very interested in your
experiment as I've thought abt doing
same thing...getting ALL programming off
the Net and forgetting abt off air or
cable

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 5:55 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

i'm using vista 64bit. how do i remove this program?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Video Email Service
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/66c84747d6468bc2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 6:22 am
From: "Brad Naylor"

Got this info in an email today, sounds interesting:

"EYEJOT - Free video email service is completely web based.
If you have a browser and a webcam, that's all you need. With Eyejot
you don't have to install any software, master complicated video
editing tools or struggle with email attachments. And Eyejot doesn't
care if you use Windows, Mac or Linux.

Eyejot records your video, stores it on the web, then shoots an email
to your friend with the video link. The recipient can view your
video message with a single click. Give it a try:"

http://www.eyejot.com

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:52 am
From: Ken

I currently use PC Tools Spyware Doctor and like it, but PC Tools has
been purchased by Symantec. I do not want any Symantec software on my
system so will not be renewing it - and it runs out in 12 days. Several
months ago it found a key-stroke logger on my system so I'm paranoid
about doing without a good anti-spyware utility.

I want to avoid a product that automatically renews every year so will
not want to buy direct from manufacturer by credit card. I'll likely have
to get a free product or a boxed product at an on-line store or here in
town at a real store. Free Spybot seems to usually get poor reviews. MS
Defender is a possibility - _Consumer Reports_ September 2008 says it is
a very good utility. The MS website says it will run under XP (XP Home?)
but I'm afraid it will require using IE - I use Firefox 3 - website
doesn't say either way. And knowing MS I'm afraid it will slow down my
system noticably. I suppose I could DL it and try it, but I try to keep
software off my system unless I intend to keep it.

Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?

Ken

--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 9:52 am
From: Steve Daniels

On 10 Sep 2008 15:52:52 GMT, against all advice, something
compelled Ken <invalid@invalid.com>, to say:

> Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?

Spybot Search & Destroy
--

Life is too short to play cheap guitars.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 10:06 am
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 10, 8:52 am, Ken <inva...@invalid.com> wrote:
> I currently use PC Tools Spyware Doctor and like it, but PC Tools has
> been purchased by Symantec. I do not want any Symantec software on my
> system so will not be renewing it - and it runs out in 12 days. Several
> months ago it found a key-stroke logger on my system so I'm paranoid
> about doing without a good anti-spyware utility.
>
> I want to avoid a product that automatically renews every year so will
> not want to buy direct from manufacturer by credit card. I'll likely have
> to get a free product or a boxed product at an on-line store or here in
> town at a real store. Free Spybot seems to usually get poor reviews. MS
> Defender is a possibility - _Consumer Reports_ September 2008 says it is
> a very good utility. The MS website says it will run under XP (XP Home?)
> but I'm afraid it will require using IE - I use Firefox 3 - website
> doesn't say either way. And knowing MS I'm afraid it will slow down my
> system noticably. I suppose I could DL it and try it, but I try to keep
> software off my system unless I intend to keep it.
>
> Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?
>
> Ken
>
> --
> "When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
> remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

Get a Mac...really. Unless you're a big time gamer you won't know the
difference. And this is coming from a hard core PC person (been using
the $20 iMac G3 for a few months, works just fine for looking at
websites, meanwhile the P4 I built sits silent and unused in another
room).

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 10:07 am
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 10, 9:52 am, Steve Daniels <sdani...@gorge.net> wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2008 15:52:52 GMT, against all advice, something
> compelled Ken <inva...@invalid.com>, to say:
>
> > Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?
>
> Spybot Search & Destroy
> --
>
> Life is too short to play cheap guitars.

He said Spybot had bad reviews, that's why he was looking for
something else :) But what about Adaware?

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 10:21 am
From: "JR Weiss"

"Ken" <invalid@invalid.com> wrote...
>
> Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?

I picked up Zone Alarm AntiSpyware when they had a "free download" sale a few
months ago. It works well for me. It is attached to the standard ZA firewall
app, but still uses less resources than my old combination of Sunbelt Kerio
firewall and CounterSpy.

I use ZAAS on a C2D as well as my single-core laptop.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 12:01 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

One thing I do is to have the processes tab on the task manager open.
When I'm on the net, I typically have fewer than 30 processes going,
and it is pretty easy to see if something other than the basics is
running.

On 10 Sep 2008 15:52:52 GMT, Ken <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:

>I currently use PC Tools Spyware Doctor and like it, but PC Tools has
>been purchased by Symantec. I do not want any Symantec software on my
>system so will not be renewing it - and it runs out in 12 days. Several
>months ago it found a key-stroke logger on my system so I'm paranoid
>about doing without a good anti-spyware utility.
>
>I want to avoid a product that automatically renews every year so will
>not want to buy direct from manufacturer by credit card. I'll likely have
>to get a free product or a boxed product at an on-line store or here in
>town at a real store. Free Spybot seems to usually get poor reviews. MS
>Defender is a possibility - _Consumer Reports_ September 2008 says it is
>a very good utility. The MS website says it will run under XP (XP Home?)
>but I'm afraid it will require using IE - I use Firefox 3 - website
>doesn't say either way. And knowing MS I'm afraid it will slow down my
>system noticably. I suppose I could DL it and try it, but I try to keep
>software off my system unless I intend to keep it.
>
>Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?
>
>Ken

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 1:31 pm
From: Steve Daniels

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:07:06 -0700 (PDT), against all advice,
something compelled Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com>, to say:

> On Sep 10, 9:52 am, Steve Daniels <sdani...@gorge.net> wrote:
> > On 10 Sep 2008 15:52:52 GMT, against all advice, something
> > compelled Ken <inva...@invalid.com>, to say:
> >
> > > Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?
> >
> > Spybot Search & Destroy
> > --
> >
> > Life is too short to play cheap guitars.
>
> He said Spybot had bad reviews, that's why he was looking for
> something else :) But what about Adaware?

I've been using it for a couple of months now, and I think it's
fine. I use AdAware as well.
--

Life is too short to play cheap guitars.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 1:45 pm
From: Parallax

Ken wrote:
> I currently use PC Tools Spyware Doctor and like it, but PC Tools has
> been purchased by Symantec. I do not want any Symantec software on my
> system so will not be renewing it - and it runs out in 12 days. Several
> months ago it found a key-stroke logger on my system so I'm paranoid
> about doing without a good anti-spyware utility.
>
> I want to avoid a product that automatically renews every year so will
> not want to buy direct from manufacturer by credit card. I'll likely have
> to get a free product or a boxed product at an on-line store or here in
> town at a real store. Free Spybot seems to usually get poor reviews. MS
> Defender is a possibility - _Consumer Reports_ September 2008 says it is
> a very good utility. The MS website says it will run under XP (XP Home?)
> but I'm afraid it will require using IE - I use Firefox 3 - website
> doesn't say either way. And knowing MS I'm afraid it will slow down my
> system noticably. I suppose I could DL it and try it, but I try to keep
> software off my system unless I intend to keep it.
>
> Any suggestions? Something you are using and find effective?
>
> Ken
>
>
http://www.techsupportalert.com/pc/security-tools.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: <> Rexsy - Beautiful Relaxing Music <>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5c7f30b2d64826d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 8:54 am
From: Rexsy

Greetings!

Rexsy is curently offering free download on several Albums of Romantic
Symphonic Piano Music, which is about Love, Romance, and Beauty!

The music is Great for Relaxation and Meditation into deep space of
Universal Emptiness and Enlightenment!

http://www.rexsy.com/rexsy_music

Enjoy!

Rexsy
Rexsy.com
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Lexsie2008

"The mesmerizing clouds reflected the divinity of the evening Sun,
which came to rest behind the dark mountains. One's consciousness had
gradually dissolved into the sacred silence of the godly Sun and the
mother Earth. Live and see the beauty of all things! This is the
ecstasy of meditation and Enlightenment." - Rexsy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal way to look younger.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3862302a48905228?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 11:02 am
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT), James <j0069bond@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I just heard over the radio that a study showed people having sex
>every other day looked 7 to 12 years younger. Does masturbation count?

Yes. Up to five w/one hand, up to ten w/both. :)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 1:26 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:02:30 GMT, chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief
Thracian) wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT), James <j0069bond@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I just heard over the radio that a study showed people having sex
>>every other day looked 7 to 12 years younger. Does masturbation count?
>
>Yes. Up to five w/one hand, up to ten w/both. :)

Hmm, I would have thought eleven...

Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

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18 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Update to Prepaid Cellular Site - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b9c64361ec1224e?hl=en
* Unplug your cable. Get TV over the internet - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac4fe22465227d21?hl=en
* Are there good reasons to leave your computer on? - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/687c8842ea058153?hl=en
* Britney Spears for Vice President! - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/41617a060889d131?hl=en
* Electricity Rates - wasRe: Home heating oil price? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
* Do you still do your own oil change? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00739344169b1364?hl=en
* Anything wrong with canned tomatoes? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7fb7868def5d6f0e?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 3:12 pm
From: imascot

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
news:xuxxk.20404$jI5.10460@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com:

Great site, very informative. However, my Page Plus phone roamed just fine in Vancouver, and it
also roamed in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 3:23 pm
From: SMS

imascot wrote:

> Great site, very informative. However, my Page Plus phone roamed just fine in Vancouver, and it
> also roamed in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Interesting. Two years ago my kids had them in Canada (Calgary) and
there was no service at all on them. I'd expect it to work in the Virgin
Islands. Were you charged the higher rate for roaming?

PagePlus is really amazing. I'm hoping that Verizon continues to let
them resell service for a long time.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 3:42 pm
From: " Frank"

"Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B1495E0A82B8greederxprtnet@194.177.96.26...
> Back in March I posted a message where I told everyone here
> that I was pulling the plug on Comca$t and I was going to
> get all my TV viewing off the internet. Well, the results
> are in and the results are mixed. I thought that the rest
> of the group might be intrested. So I created a web page
> at www.gordonreeder.com/content/TVoIP.html. I'm not selling
> anything, there are no ads, and no click throughs. Just
> trying to share some knowledge.
>

The above link doesn't work. Is this the one?
http://mysite.verizon.net/g_reeder/Content/TVoIP.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 6:04 pm
From: "Bob F"

" Frank" <x> wrote in message
news:38KdnaF9fINtZlvVnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
> The above link doesn't work. Is this the one?
> http://mysite.verizon.net/g_reeder/Content/TVoIP.html
>

Thank you. I've been hoping to find such a description.

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 3:51 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> h <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote
>>>> James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>>>> Considering 24X365 hours in a year, if electricity costs 1 cent
>>>>> per hour for your computer, it would cost $87 a year or over $170
>>>>> if 2 cents per hour.

>>>> I need my computer at least once an hour, 16-18 hours a day.
>>>> Waiting for it to boot would waste a helluva lot more than 16-18
>>>> cents of my time.

>>> I agree with you on that; it's all dependent on how often you need
>>> to access it. Right now I have an iMAC (Strawberry, 400 mhz) that
>>> I leave in "sleep" mode and wake up by shaking the mouse. Sleep
>>> mode does use power, but not as much as fully on/running.

>> And hibernation speeds up the boot dramatically too.

>>> In the "olden days" the reason for keeping the computer on
>>> was to avoid wearing out the powersupply via multiple restarts.

>> Nope, that is not correct.

>>> From what I understand this isn't as much of an issue anymore;

>> It never was.

>>> saving power expenses is.

>> Not really. And like you say, its trivial to fix that if you want to.

> Yes it is correct.

Nope, fraid not.

> That was the thinking about 10 years ago;

Nope, fraid not.

> maybe not in your neighborhood but here around Silicon valley it was.

Nope, fraid not.

And you can use groups.google to show that it wasnt even a common belief around Silicon valley either.

> It was common thinking that multiple cycles would shorten the life of the powersupply.

Only the fools that didnt have a clue about the basics.

> Kinda like flicking a light switch off/on can kill a light bulb faster than leaving it on.

Nope, nothing like. The reason you get that effect with an incandescent light bulb
is because you get a large inrush current with the cold filament because the resistance
of the filament varys dramatically with the temperature of the filament and the large
inrush current can blow a filament that has been thinned by evaporation of the filament.

There is no effect anything like that with a PC power supply and there never was either.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 3:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 1:53 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Sep 9, 1:01 pm, "JonquilJan" <war...@imcnet.net> wrote:
>>>> Don't know if this helps or not - but I not only turn the computer
>>>> off in the evenings when I am done - I unplug computer and monitor
>>>> when I am finished. Basic reason is because of sudden storms and
>>>> power outages during my sleeping/bed hours. Yes I do have a surge
>>>> protector - but that doesn't protect againist lightning - at least
>>>> that's what I've been told.
>>
>>>> JonquilJan - and open to practical information from informed others
>>
>>>> Learn something new every day
>>>> As long as you are learning, you are living
>>>> When you stop learning, you start dying
>>
>>> The other "good thing" that does by unplugging the computer/monitor
>>> at night is you're killing a known energy vampire. Computers and
>>> newer monitors (LCD's) still draw power when plugged in, even if
>>> they're off (motherboard will show a light, monitor will show the
>>> orange light).
>>
>> That power use is microscopic tho.

> Ok, it's a baby vampire then :p

It isnt even a baby vampire. Not even a glow worm.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 4:11 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:35:13 -0700 (PDT), James <j0069bond@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Considering 24X365 hours in a year, if electricity costs 1 cent per
>hour for your computer, it would cost $87 a year or over $170 if 2
>cents per hour.

Those numbers are meaningless. Figure out how much juice *your*
computer uses. There can be wide variations.
Then ask yourself the same question about a light bulb using the same
watts. Any good reason to leave it on when you're not using it?
I boot my computer at least 3 times a day. Been doing it for years.
Never had any failures I'd attribute to that.
Don't mind waiting for it to boot, since I flip on the nearby TV to
keep me occupied, or start the computer a few minutes before I know
I'll use it. Not staring at the computer monitor as it boots is a
good habit
I pretty much treat it like a light bulb as far as turning it off.
If I think I'll be away more than 1/2 hour or so I turn it off.
Not telling anybody else what to do.
No way I would leave it on if I leave the house.
Power supplies and CRT's occasionally catch on fire, so like any other
appliance keep your computer away from curtains or anything that can
feed a fire.

--Vic

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 4:26 pm
From: " Frank"

>
> > In the "olden days" the reason for keeping the computer on
> > was to avoid wearing out the powersupply via multiple restarts.
>
> Nope, that is not correct.
>

Yes it is correct. That was the thinking about 10 years ago; maybe
not in your neighborhood but here around Silicon valley it was. It
was common thinking that multiple cycles would shorten the life of the
powersupply. Kinda like flicking a light switch off/on can kill a
light bulb faster than leaving it on.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agree! That was the thinking too over 30 years ago when Andy Grove was just
an author of a good solid state book and Bill Gates was in school. Not only
the power supply but the hard disk and other components as well. Its the
switching transients that kill components, i.e., di/dt. I know companies
than that leave the computers and lights on 24/7. Cost of early computers
were much more expensive. A desktop CPM computer based on the Intel 8080
chip could run over $20K and energy was very cheap. Further, cost of
maintaining light fixtures and lamps were higher than cost of energy. So it
was cost effective just leave it on 24/7.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 5:49 pm
From: "h"

"Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g8mdc4tltlf8leitkndba13sep1rg2ejuq@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 14:56:45 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:8190553d-c364-4f39-a152-b741d9b145b7@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>> Considering 24X365 hours in a year, if electricity costs 1 cent per
>>> hour for your computer, it would cost $87 a year or over $170 if 2
>>> cents per hour.
>>
>>I need my computer at least once an hour, 16-18 hours a day. Waiting for
>>it
>>to boot would waste a helluva lot more than 16-18 cents of my time.
>>
>
> I have mine set to go to sleep (the lowest level of standby, HD off,
> fans off) after a period of inactivity.

Well, yeah, doesn't everyone? Of course it's set to "sleep" or "hibernate"
or whatever they're calling it this year, but it's still "on" all the time.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 11:56 pm
From: "friesian@zoocrewphoto.com"

I used my first desktop computer for 8 years, and I left it on most of
the time.

Learn how to use "hibernate mode" and the thing
> will reboot in about 30 seconds all the way
> back to the application you left open.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 4:19 pm
From: krw

In article <jTnxk.22437$uE5.2865@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com>, riley44
@hotmail.com says...
>
> Don't pay any more attention to all that boring stuff. The GOP has
> some exiting news for you! They have combined forces with the Alaskan
> Independence Party to bring you Britney Spears for Vice-President. Okay
> so they couldn't get the real Britney nor Paris Hilton so McCain settled
> for Sarah Palin instead.

If you're going to lie, at least be funny.

--
Keith

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 8:21 pm
From: "B. Peg"

Fwiw, Palin has been a Republican since 1982. Check current Newsweek.

However, I feel the Muslim Obama will be better for America in the long term
since the Muslim religion is the largest in the world. His (sealed)
racist's wife's doctoral thesis from Princeton should appease the
African-Americans as well. Between the two, America should be safe from the
divisive problems experienced in Europe like France's recent Muslim
demonstrations and burnings.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 5:03 pm
From: Neon John

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:58:50 -0700, "Matthew Beasley" <nobody@spam.com> wrote:

>Dump them and form a co-op..... I'm a free market guy, but a utility isn't
>a free market.

Want to go to the moon? Then build a rocket and go. That'd be about as easy
as forming a co-op in an area with existing infrastructure.

Co-ops are the product of the New Deal and REA. REA money paid for the
infrastructure and acquiring the right of ways. That money isn't available
now. Nor are the right of ways. REA ROWs were acquired long before an area
was built up and the government could and did use condemnation when necessary.
All the silly press aside, as a practical matter, that isn't possible today.

A co-op wouldn't save them any money in Larry's situation anyway, since it
would have to buy power from for-profit generators. Look at his delivery
charge. That would remain, at least in part, with a co-op, as the power has
to be delivered to the co-op's boundary.

Co-ops work best in places like here where the power is delivered by a public
utility - TVA - and passed through at cost plus operating expenses. A
well-run municipal utility can do it even cheaper. For example, the same TVA
power is about a cent a kWh cheaper in Cleveland (Cleveland Utilities, owned
by the city) than here under a Co-op.

I'm generally a free market guy but clearly electricity is one area where
public owned (government) utilities do it better. I love how commercial
utilities try to cloud the issue by calling themselves "publicly owned
utilities". TVA, BPA and the other government-owned utilities supply the
cheapest power in the nation, especially when judged by the amount of mark-up
over the cost of the inputs.

>The other nice part is that the co-ops, MUD's and PUD's are exempt from the
>political shenanigans that the PUC tries to force upon us. We are our own
>PUC, and when we vote, we vote for cheap reliable power as our first
>consideration.
>

Just out of curiosity, what Co-op are you with? Do they have a rate card
available on-line?

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 6:14 pm
From: "Bob F"

"Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lf8bc455ogc859hoqnqueehe0ui4kn5l67@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:37:36 -0600, timeOday
> <timeOday-UNspam@theknack.net> wrote:
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>> "James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:01ca5dea-74f9-428c-9c7c-e00c9909960b@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>>> I keep saying to myself I'm too old to do it just to save 5 bucks.
>>>> However every time they have a special on oil and filters I get
>>>> another batch.
>>>
>>> How do you save 5 bucks? The materials alone are usually more than it costs
>>> to have our garage do it. Then you have to consider the gas you will burn
>>> when you haul the used oil to a recycling facility. -Dave
>>
>>
>>Yeah, I figured it out last time, and you hardly save any money at all
>>doing it yourself.
>
> Four quarts of oil and a filter cost me US$7-8. How much does it cost
> to have your oil changed at a garage?
> Dennis (evil)

And how much time and gas does it take to drive somewhere to get it done?

And then there's the parts left off because the oil place doesn't like them in
the way. The one time I paid for an oil change (After surgery), they left the
cover under the engine off when they returned it to me. When I complained, they
told me they should have charged me more because of the cover, then put it back
in place.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 6:17 pm
From: "Bob F"

"1297" <1297@npspam.com> wrote in message
news:6ilfngFqr7i7U1@mid.individual.net...

>>> Only a fool changes the oil every other month.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Only a fool doesn't change oil every 5k miles.
>
> Barking mad.
>
>> I expect my vehicles to last a minimum of 250K miles.
>
> My last one lasted 35+ years with no oil changes at all outside the first
> year.
>
>> Oil changes are a minimal / essentially negligible cost to extend the life
>> span.
>
> Have fun explaining how mine lasted 35+ years, 300K miles without any outside
> the first year.

Of course, you did have to add a quart or two with every fillup.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 8:13 pm
From: "1297" <1297@npspam.com>

Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
> "1297" <1297@npspam.com> wrote in message
> news:6ilfngFqr7i7U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>>>> Only a fool changes the oil every other month.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Only a fool doesn't change oil every 5k miles.
>>
>> Barking mad.
>>
>>> I expect my vehicles to last a minimum of 250K miles.
>>
>> My last one lasted 35+ years with no oil changes at all outside the
>> first year.
>>
>>> Oil changes are a minimal / essentially negligible cost to extend
>>> the life span.
>>
>> Have fun explaining how mine lasted 35+ years, 300K miles without
>> any outside the first year.
>
>
> Of course, you did have to add a quart or two with every fillup.

Nope, nothing like it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anything wrong with canned tomatoes?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7fb7868def5d6f0e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 8:12 pm
From: Derald

Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>buck-an-ear gag. ;-)
...but he isn't in FL any longer

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 9 2008 8:12 pm
From: Derald

Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I keep thinking that I should put it to
>use as a vertical container garden for strawberries or some such.
>Seems like it would be fairly low/easy maintenance. Hmmm...
Good thimking. You know, this past growing season (fall-winter) a
guy down the road a piece opened a small u-pick strawberry patch grown
in similar contraptions: Vertical pipes with three or four
circumferential tiers of wedge-shaped pots that appear to be constructed
of styrofoam. Of course, the assemblies are arranged in regular rows;
top spray irrigated. No idea what the growing medium is. I didn't check
but suspect that he uses the spray irrigation for freeze protection,
otherwise, ISTM, drip irrigation of some kind would be more efficient.
Don't think they're identical but closely resemble the "original" item
pictured here: http://www.theezgro.com/index.html
>
>I can now laugh at the nation-wide hop shortage and resulting high market prices.
I'm hip. If I brewed my own, I'd be envious, I guess. IIRC, a
number of craft brewers are "sharing" their excess at the prices they
purport to have paid. Magnanimous, they.

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