Frugal Living: Dec 6, 2008

Saturday, December 6, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* USB flash memory stick....reliable brand? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bd0aa371a1d77ee2?hl=en
* 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers! - 9 messages, 6
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
* Why not a holiday from auto buying? - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
* Execution and Expropriation of all Jews, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.
grishenkoff.com) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fe2bd7bda3dfe136?hl=en
* Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets - 3 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
* Shrinking Canned Tuna. Smaller, more Expensive - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/993839ff415de549?hl=en
* Bank of America got Bailed Out! We got Sold Out!!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eba0ff2e48cfc0c4?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: USB flash memory stick....reliable brand?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bd0aa371a1d77ee2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 10:52 am
From: "Daniel T."

"carkenord@juno.com" <carkenord@juno.com> wrote:

> I am going to buy an 8gb USB flash memory stick.
>
> Price has fallen down to about $2 per gig.
>
> I want a "stick" with _NO_ U3 or software.
>
> In terms of reliability and longevity, are there brands to avoid?
>
> Are there brands that "stand out" as being better than average?
>
> What's the opinion on SANDISK brand?

I have had very good luck with Ativa sticks, which I think is Office
Depot's generic brand.

They are cheep and reliable, but they can't take a lot of abuse, so if
you are the sort of person who likes throwing your USB to a friend from
across the room (overhand,) you might want to check out some other brand.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 11:03 am
From: sarge137

On Dec 6, 10:31 am, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> carken...@juno.com wrote:
> > I am going to buy an 8gb USB flash memory stick.
>
> > Price has fallen down to about $2 per gig.
>
> > I want a "stick" with _NO_ U3 or software.
>
> > In terms of reliability and longevity, are there brands to avoid?
>
> > Are there brands that "stand out" as being better than average?
>
> > What's the opinion on SANDISK brand?
>
> I have little knowledge of USB sticks but have a lot of experience
> with flash memory used in cameras.
>
> Now, it may be that memory as a commodity has reached a high level of
> development and brand X may be very good.
>
> Flash memory has two properties you may be interested in. One is
> "speed", and if you are transferring 8GB, that can take a while.
>
> The other is wear, flash memory wears a bit with each use and in many
> products there is wear leveling software so the same bits aren't written
> to, rather the wear is spread out.
>
> Sandisk is a major brand and was one of the first to stress
> reliability and speed and even performance at temperature extremes. I
> have had problems with some flash memory and found some way too slow,
> but that was a couple years ago and things may be very different now.
>
> If I were you, I'd buy the Sandisk for a slight premium over the X
> Brand. Particularly in the largest size. YMMV.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> > Thanks, folks........ Lee in Denver CO

Nicely explained. All of the cards in my camera bag are Sandisk for
the very reasons you spelled out. Those files are one of a kind until
they get transferred to my hard drive.

Sticks are mainly used for non-critical purposes, like "sneaker
netting" files between computers where the originals still exist. I
have a couple of small capacity generic sticks (256 & 512) that are at
least three years old and get used constantly with no apparent loss of
speed or capacity. But I'd never have the only copy of any file on
either of them. I wouldn't pay even a small premium for a name brand
stick over a generic of the same capacity, if the choice is
available. On the other hand, the price difference is generally small
enough I wouldn't pass up a name brand stick if I needed one and it
was the only choice.

Regards,
Sarge

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 11:58 am
From: "JR Weiss"

<carkenord@juno.com> wrote...
>
> I am going to buy an 8gb USB flash memory stick.
> I want a "stick" with _NO_ U3 or software.
> In terms of reliability and longevity, are there brands to avoid?

I haven't had any fail.

> Are there brands that "stand out" as being better than average?

My PNY is faster than my Memorex or Newegg generic, but they all work.

> What's the opinion on SANDISK brand?

Mainstream. I use their SD cards.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 11:33 am
From: RickH

On Dec 6, 3:25 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
>
> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
> >With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
> >November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
> >workers?
>
> >http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>
> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>
> ted

Computer programing also used to be a reliable career field, now I
would never recommend that any student in America go into IT or
programming in general. Those jobs are going to India faster than
ever. 95% of what I do at work these days is spec out things that
someone in India engineers and codes, then sends back to us. Its a
pretty sad state of affairs in a field that only 3 or 4 years ago
guaranteed a 6 figure salary in a few short years.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 1:49 pm
From: KLS

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:18:38 -0800 (PST), hpope@lycos.com wrote:

>By the way, the 140,00 foreign workers does not include the horde of
>low-IQ welfare leeching
>illegal immigrants. Deport those 15 million (conservative estimate)
>and an economic boom would
>sweep this nation.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing all the white legal citizens pick
up the migrant worker agricultural jobs in New York State, 2nd largest
agricultural producer in the US. Will we be seeing you out in the
apple orchards in the Finger Lakes soon?

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 2:50 pm
From: "Lubow"

>
> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading papers
> in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>

Thirty K per year? On which planet is that? Around these parts teachers with
tenure are good for $90-120K with an incomparable health plan. And our
superintendent who manages a school district (2150 students) that is half the
size of a Brooklyn high school gets a quarter million bucks plus a retirement
package that rivals that of Bob Rubin's. And that does not even include his
sick leave that is convertible into cash when he retires. Even Bob Rubin
doesn't get that.

Hanging on the wall to my right is the receipt for my school taxes in the amount
of $11,767.42 and next month I will welcome into our home the tax bill to help
pay the highest paid cops on earth, but that's another story.

Sometimes the Cold Spring Harbor SD has a career day where I and some other
techies talk to high school kids. Last spring, the moderator was the high
school's chemistry teacher. After the chat with students the chem teacher told
me she used to teach at Nassau County Community College but nearly doubled her
money by taking a couple of U of Phoenix ed courses on the internet and getting
a job teaching HS kids. Apparently, her PhD did not interest the school board
as much as her credentials from the University of Phoenix (oh gosh!). However,
as per the union contract, the PhD got her a very sizeable increment and an
instant career path to department head when and if the position opens.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 3:01 pm
From: Nate Nagel

Lubow wrote:
>>
>> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
>> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>>
>
> Thirty K per year? On which planet is that? Around these parts
> teachers with tenure are good for $90-120K with an incomparable health
> plan.

then you're definitely an outlier.

http://www.teacher-world.com/statespages/Virginia.html

average salary of $35K? you'd have to add another zero to that to get
me to put up with all the BS. Plus, I *live* in Virginia - I couldn't
afford a place to live on $35K/year, unless we're talking just a rented
room.

nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 3:11 pm
From: "Lubow"

>
> I worked for 40-years as an engineer before I retired. The H-1B
> "highly trained" workers are not filling a gap opened by a lack of
> trained American workers.
>
> They are filling a gap created by highly trained American workers who
> are (or were) reluctant to work for the slave-wages offered the H-1Bs.
>

In 1999 US News and World Report had an issue dedicated to this problem. There
is no shortage, nor has there ever been a shortage, in US engineers. The
"shortage," concluded US News was in engineers earning $19K (this was in 1999).

In the same issue was a discussion of the "half life" of American techies. Half
of all graduates of US engineering schools were out of the engineering business
within ten years of graduation. In computer science, the half life was five
years. I have no idea of the current half lives but 50% of the 1999 figures is
not unreasonable

And that's the focus I bring when the alumni association asks me to speak to
graduating engineers at CCNY. In short, an engineering or computer degree does
not obligate one to be those fields. One of the other speakers moved from
engineering into law specializing in construction claims. One guy in chemical
engineering started a photo finishing business. Another in the general
technology program refurbished burned-out buildings in the South Bronx.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 3:42 pm
From: Caesar Romano

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 18:11:24 -0500, "Lubow" <lubow@lubowindustries.com>
wrote Re Re: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign
Workers!:

>In the same issue was a discussion of the "half life" of American techies. Half
>of all graduates of US engineering schools were out of the engineering business
>within ten years of graduation. In computer science, the half life was five
>years. I have no idea of the current half lives but 50% of the 1999 figures is
>not unreasonable
>
>And that's the focus I bring when the alumni association asks me to speak to
>graduating engineers at CCNY. In short, an engineering or computer degree does
>not obligate one to be those fields. One of the other speakers moved from
>engineering into law specializing in construction claims. One guy in chemical
>engineering started a photo finishing business. Another in the general
>technology program refurbished burned-out buildings in the South Bronx.

Doesn't say much for the prospects of American tech careers. If I had
been smarter I would have been one of those who left after 10-years
instead of hanging in for 40 (well, 37 actually) years.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 4:27 pm
From: "HeyBub"

John Galt wrote:
>
> Make me king for a day and let me fix one, and I'd fix (2). The vast
> majority of disruptive students are disruptive because they simply
> shouldn't be taking the classes they're told to take. We educate all
> students as if they're going to Yale, so not only do kids who can't do
> college prep work fail, they get pissed off about it, act out, and
> take a bunch of other kids down with them. It's stupid, stupid, stupid.
>

Old what's-his-name, used to be chancellor at Rice University, was made head
of the Boston Public School system. He was asked, if he could do anything
(king-for-a-day) to improve the public school system, what would it be?

"Abolish colleges of education" was his reply.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 4:31 pm
From: "HeyBub"

Lubow wrote:
>
> Hanging on the wall to my right is the receipt for my school taxes in
> the amount of $11,767.42 and next month I will welcome into our home
> the tax bill to help pay the highest paid cops on earth, but that's
> another story.

My school taxes were $2,100. I've got a 6br, 4bath, 4-car garage, 3100 sq ft
home. Yours may be bigger or better. 'Course you live on Long Island and I
live in Houston.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 5:07 pm
From: "Lubow"

>
> Doesn't say much for the prospects of American tech careers. If I had
> been smarter I would have been one of those who left after 10-years
> instead of hanging in for 40 (well, 37 actually) years.

Are you a PE?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why not a holiday from auto buying?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 11:41 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying a
new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck. (By the
way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)
Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to see
if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.

ted

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 11:54 am
From: Bert Hyman

In news:s1llj49s56ue4km6fujs8fols84j1mfocf@4ax.com wismel@yahoo.com
wrote:

> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying a
> new vehicle.

Gee... I've managed to do that for the past 7 years.

If I need a car, I'll buy one.

What's your point?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 12:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

wismel@yahoo.com wrote:

> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying
> a new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck.

Great way to fuck the economy very comprehensively indeed.

> (By the way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)

True of anything except houses, stupid.

> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to
> see if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.

Or flush them down the tubes, cretin.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 1:20 pm
From: hal@nospam.com

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 07:20:44 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying
>> a new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck.
>
>Great way to fuck the economy very comprehensively indeed.

the economy is pretty much fucked comprehensively anyway.

>
>> (By the way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)
>
>True of anything except houses, stupid.
>
>> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
>> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to
>> see if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.
>
>Or flush them down the tubes, cretin.
>
they flushed themselves. For years they've been manufacturing cars no
one wants and did not have the ability to transition to more practical
vehicles.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 1:44 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

hal@nospam.com wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> wismel@yahoo.com wrote:

>>> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying
>>> a new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck.

>> Great way to fuck the economy very comprehensively indeed.

> the economy is pretty much fucked comprehensively anyway.

Mindless pig ignorant silly stuff.

>>> (By the way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)

>> True of anything except houses, stupid.

>>> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
>>> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to
>>> see if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.

>> Or flush them down the tubes, cretin.

> they flushed themselves. For years they've been manufacturing cars no
> one wants and did not have the ability to transition to more practical vehicles.

The real reason they didnt is because of the stupid union demands that saw
their costs much higher than their foreign competition and that ensured that
they couldnt make money on those cars. So they had to try to flog steaming
turds with wheels instead.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 3:25 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Dec 6, 11:41 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying a
> new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck. (By the
> way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)
> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to see
> if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.
>
> ted

So you're basically saying all the other car companies should "suffer"
for the mismanagement of the 3 US car manufacturers??? WTH? And most
of us already do what you suggested so it's really a "moot" point.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 4:58 pm
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Dec 6, 12:41 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying a
> new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck. (By the
> way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)
> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to see
> if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.
>
> ted

I have a hunch that most of those complaining about your suggestion
are probably lucky
to make 50K a year. Hence, that vehicle is important to their self-
image.

Mitch

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Execution and Expropriation of all Jews, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.
grishenkoff.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fe2bd7bda3dfe136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 1:36 pm
From: Prime Minister of the Kingdom of God Serge Grishenkoff

Execution and Expropriation of all Jews, effective as of 08.08.08
(www.grishenkoff.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 1:57 pm
From: "bungalow_steve@yahoo.com"

On Dec 3, 7:07 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:

> During the 1930's, my mother saw the average guy trying to pick
> bottoms, in 1930, 1931, 1932 ......1939, all lost. Market didn't show
> a gain until 1954.

did you even look up the stock market prices during this period before
you make a silly post like this???

i'll help you out with a simple chart

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html

The "market didn't show a gain until 1954" comment you always hear
assumes you invested all your money on the day before the crash. which
is unlikely

just as unlikely is if you invested everything in 1932, from 1932 to
1954 you would of made almost 900%, one of the best stock investment
periods ever

if you dollar cost average in th 30's you would be doing very well

depressions are the time to buy stuff, cash is overvalued (you can buy
a lot of stocks, real estate for little money)

booms are the time to have cash, because cash is undervalued (you can
buy very little stocks or real estate for a lot of money)

Cash was king 6 months ago, it no longer is now

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 3:27 pm
From: Observer

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:57:27 -0800 (PST), "bungalow_steve@yahoo.com"
<bungalow_steve@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Dec 3, 7:07 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> During the 1930's, my mother saw the average guy trying to pick
>> bottoms, in 1930, 1931, 1932 ......1939, all lost. Market didn't show
>> a gain until 1954.
>
>did you even look up the stock market prices during this period before
>you make a silly post like this???
>
>i'll help you out with a simple chart
>
>http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html
>
>The "market didn't show a gain until 1954" comment you always hear
>assumes you invested all your money on the day before the crash. which
>is unlikely
>
>just as unlikely is if you invested everything in 1932, from 1932 to
>1954 you would of made almost 900%, one of the best stock investment
>periods ever
>
>if you dollar cost average in th 30's you would be doing very well
>
>depressions are the time to buy stuff, cash is overvalued (you can buy
>a lot of stocks, real estate for little money)
>
>booms are the time to have cash, because cash is undervalued (you can
>buy very little stocks or real estate for a lot of money)
>
>Cash was king 6 months ago, it no longer is now
>

And the safe haven currently is _______?

The last official act of any government is the looting of the nation.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 4:32 pm
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Observer <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

> And the safe haven currently is _______?

Same a always. US Treasury securities.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shrinking Canned Tuna. Smaller, more Expensive
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/993839ff415de549?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 2:14 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper

Evelyn wrote:
>
> Buy the tuna in the foil bags.
> Lots less liquid so more truth to the amount you get compared to what is
> on the pkg.

But unfortunately it's stopped going on sale around here, so I think
it's still cheaper to buy the cans on sale than the pouches not on sale.

(I really prefer the pouches--they don't require a can opener, and when
you open them, the tuna is already the right shape for a sandwich!)

What irks me (well, my husband, really) is that "chunk light tuna" has
become over the years "mush light tuna" (especially in cans). If you
want tuna with any firmness, you have to buy white tuna, which has less
flavor.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bank of America got Bailed Out! We got Sold Out!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eba0ff2e48cfc0c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 3:25 pm
From: lisajoe@privacy.net

Bank of America got Bailed Out! We got Sold Out!!!

Hey folks,

Some really important stuff is happening in Chicago right now. I've drawn
up a petition - it's pretty self explanatory:

http://www.petitiononline.com/solidfac/petition.html

To: Bank of America and Republic Windows and Doors management

As students and youth, we stand in solidarity with the Chicago workers at
the Republic of Windows and Doors factory in their just struggle against
closure, and for the right to their jobs and health care. The wealthy
bankers at Bank of America got $25 billion in the bailout, but is refusing
loans to the company. The management owes over 1 million dollars in
severance and vacation pay. We know it is the big bankers and bosses who
have laid off, cut benefits, and sold out the worker. Everyone should
support the workers' occupation of the factory to demand workers' rights and
justice.

We join in the chant with them:

Bank of America got Bailed Out! We got Sold Out!!!

For more information:
http://www.fightbacknews.org/2008/12/chicago-workers-occupy-plant.htm
http://chicago.indymedia.org/newswire/display/84872/index.php

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
* Execution and Expropriation of all Jews, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.
grishenkoff.com) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fe2bd7bda3dfe136?hl=en
* 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers! - 15 messages,
8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
* USB flash memory stick....reliable brand? - 6 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bd0aa371a1d77ee2?hl=en
* Country Genealogy & Family History Studies: - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cc83a8111ae1ced9?hl=en
* ccleaner - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c02b82a17e67ba79?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 8:52 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <8hDZk.2659$us6.1106@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "W.B. Yeats" <slipuvalad@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5911c054-0686-413f-9710-b98a82ee5e16@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> > "Will debit cards outstrip credit?"
> >
> >
> > "People still pull out the plastic, but often they're not charging
> > anything. That leaves banks scrambling to make up the revenue they've
> > lost from their more-profitable credit cards."
> >
> > By BusinessWeek
>
> what's coming is a fee that both the merchant and debit card user will have
> to pay. after cash is illegal, of course.

Merchants already pay a fee for debit card transactions, which
presumably gets passed onto all their customers in the prices each
merchant sets for his or her products or services.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 12:25 am
From: Prime Minister of the Kingdom of God Serge Grishenkoff

Execution and Expropriation of all Jews, effective as of 08.08.08
(www.grishenkoff.com)

== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 1:25 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
obamao.sux.donki.dixsss@gmail.com wrote:

>With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
>November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
>workers?
>
>http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/533000-jobs-lost-nov-but-feds-imported-another-140000-foreign-workers

Does anyone still support this frigging government"

ted

== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 4:34 am
From: John Galt

wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
> obamao.sux.donki.dixsss@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
>> November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
>> workers?
>>
>> http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/533000-jobs-lost-nov-but-feds-imported-another-140000-foreign-workers
>
> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>
> ted

The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
recruit them.)

You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.

Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has sponsored
a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for elementary and
secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
responsible for that dissonance?

Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is that
there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the jobs.

The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw, because
of the aforementioned shortage.)

One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa filing
is wage.

== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 4:50 am
From: "HeyBub"

John Galt wrote:
>
> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has
> sponsored a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for
> elementary
> and secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
> responsible for that dissonance?
>
> Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
> teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
> temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
> up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
> teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
> interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
> position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is
> that there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the
> jobs.
> The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
> teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw,
> because of the aforementioned shortage.)
>
> One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa
> filing is wage.

You're right. That's not the only reason. The following are NOT qualified to
teach in the public schools of Texas.

* All living Nobel Laureates
* All living winners of the Pulitzer, Hugo, or Edgar prizes. Most winners of
the Newberry.
* Almost all members of Congress and all living ex-presidents.
* Almost all members of the federal judiciary.
* Virtually all retired physicians, nurses, and engineers.

Do you have any doubt that a retired civil engineer couldn't teach plane
geometry off the top of this head, or that a retired chemical engineer
couldn't do the same thing for high school chemistry?

No, the reason these people are unqualified by law to teach in the public
schools is that they lack the requisite education courses! A retired PhD has
at least 18 years experience as a student and probably two or three years
teaching undergraduate courses - much more experience than your typical
beginning public school teacher!

Bah!

The inmates are in charge of the asylum.

On the plus side, a degree in education does tend to weed out the
unmotivated...

== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 5:15 am
From: John Galt

HeyBub wrote:
> John Galt wrote:
>> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has
>> sponsored a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for
>> elementary
>> and secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
>> responsible for that dissonance?
>>
>> Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
>> teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
>> temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
>> up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
>> teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
>> interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
>> position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is
>> that there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the
>> jobs.
>> The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
>> teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw,
>> because of the aforementioned shortage.)
>>
>> One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa
>> filing is wage.
>
> You're right. That's not the only reason. The following are NOT qualified to
> teach in the public schools of Texas.
>
> * All living Nobel Laureates
> * All living winners of the Pulitzer, Hugo, or Edgar prizes. Most winners of
> the Newberry.
> * Almost all members of Congress and all living ex-presidents.
> * Almost all members of the federal judiciary.
> * Virtually all retired physicians, nurses, and engineers.
>
> Do you have any doubt that a retired civil engineer couldn't teach plane
> geometry off the top of this head, or that a retired chemical engineer
> couldn't do the same thing for high school chemistry?

There's no question that they could, and if that was the only reason for
needing training in pedagogy, preventing them from doing so is indeed
silly. However, that's not the entire story. There is actual skill
involved in managing 30 kids in order to achieve an academic objective,
and that skill is almost always assumed to be simplistic by those who
have never been in a classroom situation. It's not.

But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?

Our current unemployment problem is not with the professional groups you
mention. They either have jobs or are enjoying comfortable retirements
from which they are unlikely to want to pull themselves out of bed at
6AM each day. Our current unemployment problem are predominately people
who are NOT qualified by educational background to teach in the schools.
The number of people with sufficient education to teach that are without
work isn't large enough to address the problem.
>
> No, the reason these people are unqualified by law to teach in the public
> schools is that they lack the requisite education courses! A retired PhD has
> at least 18 years experience as a student and probably two or three years
> teaching undergraduate courses - much more experience than your typical
> beginning public school teacher!

Yes, but no experience in teaching and motivating students who don't
want to be in the classroom. And therein lies the reason that we do have
teacher training. I'd agree with you that there is some unnecessary
bureaucracy there, but it's not ALL unnecessary.

>
> Bah!
>
> The inmates are in charge of the asylum.
>
> On the plus side, a degree in education does tend to weed out the
> unmotivated...
>
>

== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 5:51 am
From: clams_casino

John Galt wrote:

>
>
> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?

What teacher gets $30k /yr other than perhaps newly hired, just out of
college? Here, they are paid an AVERAGE of $60k plus very generous
benefits benefits with very generous holiday, sick time and vacation
time that no engineer could ever expect to see.

== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 6:19 am
From: Kurt Ullman

In article <4ku_k.382964$vK2.67641@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com>,
John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>
> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has sponsored
> a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for elementary and
> secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
> responsible for that dissonance?
If I were a cynic, I would think that even imported teachers will
have to join the teacher's union. So, every teaching job that goes
unfilled, in addition to hurting the student, hurts the financial status
of the teacher's union. Good thing I am not a cynic (grin).

== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 6:20 am
From: Kurt Ullman

In article <LsydnZWis5CC6KfUnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> You're right. That's not the only reason. The following are NOT qualified to
> teach in the public schools of Texas.

> * Almost all members of Congress and all living ex-presidents.

Sounds a like you think this is a bad thing...

== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 6:30 am
From: John Galt

Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <4ku_k.382964$vK2.67641@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com>,
> John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
>> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
>> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
>> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>>
>> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has sponsored
>> a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for elementary and
>> secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
>> responsible for that dissonance?
> If I were a cynic, I would think that even imported teachers will
> have to join the teacher's union. So, every teaching job that goes
> unfilled, in addition to hurting the student, hurts the financial status
> of the teacher's union. Good thing I am not a cynic (grin).

Heh.

Well, that's certainly the case in the north. In the right to work
states, joining a union is entirely up to the teacher, and on teacher's
salaries, even few bucks from each paycheck for union dues prevents a
lot of participation.

== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 6:57 am
From: Caesar Romano

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 06:34:59 -0600, John Galt <kady101@gmail.com>
wrote Re Re: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign
Workers!:

>The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
>workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
>jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
>also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
>import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
>recruit them.)

I worked for 40-years as an engineer before I retired. The H-1B
"highly trained" workers are not filling a gap opened by a lack of
trained American workers.

They are filling a gap created by highly trained American workers who
are (or were) reluctant to work for the slave-wages offered the H-1Bs.

Here's how it used to work in my field:

A company like Bechtel gets a big project and they need several
hundred engineers. The know they can get all the American engineers
they need for $50/hour. They advertise the openings for $30/hour and
get very few takers. They then offer to sponsor H-1B foreigners
because they "...can't get enough engineers.." They get a bunch of
Pakistani, Chinese and Indian engineers who are quite qualified, speak
English, and are willing to work for 35% or 40% less to be able to
stay in the U.S.

This goes on for 10 or 15 years, and the next generation of college
student decides that engineering isn't for them. They'll study law or
banking or whatever. The engineering schools need students to stay in
business, so they actively recruit foreign students such as
Pakistanis, Indians, and Chinese. These foreign students come here to
study on a student visa. When they graduate they must leave the
country... Unless they get H1-B jobs. Then they can stay.

It's probably a very similar scenario in the computer and medical
technology fields.

== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 7:28 am
From: terry

On Dec 6, 6:25 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
>
> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
> >With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
> >November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
> >workers?
>
> >http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>
> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>
> ted
Right about the lousy government for the last 8
years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But everyone should stop 'dissing' foreign workers, immigration and
all the other improbable, or at least secondary, causes of the slow
down of the North American economy and get back to basics.
1) You can't run an economy on credit (any more than an individual or
family can do so!)
2) It's a world economy. Otherwise just build a wall around the USA
and let nothing in or out. Stay home and play with your (imported?)
marbles.
3) To play a role within the world economy you can't just be a
consumer. You have to provide something of value that can be traded.
4) You have to have respect for your actions from both your friends
and potential enemies. Otherwise you will lose your friends. Also take
advice from your friends.
Who was it said 'No man is an island'; nor a country?
5) Not going to make much progress while acting to get half the world
to hate you!

This: Copied from another news group!

Toyota opened another plant in North America the other day. It will
employ North Americans who will be paid North American wages and who
will spend their money in North America and who will pay North
American taxes and send their children to North American schools. The
jobs provided will replace a few of the auto manufacturing jobs lost
by 'The big 3' close-downs.

Gee whiz; Toyota must be making cars that people want to buy??????

Some people said this years ago: "If GM wants to survive why don't
they make Toyotas?"

Everyone we know, including a a two doctor family who own two now
slightly aging Corollas are completely satisfied. The cars are fairly
cheap to buy in first instance, and for two medical people often 'on
call', extremely reliable. Also economical to run and maintain! The
two cars are constantly on the go in a family of six, and have
mileages of 120,000 and 150.000 miles respectively.

A Modern Parable.

A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motors)
decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams
practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the
race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile. The Americans, very
discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the
crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was
formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person
steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people
rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management
hired
a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a
second
opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat,
while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent
another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure
was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering
superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2
people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was
called
the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and
free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new
paddles,
canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and
bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition'
and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting
programs and teamwork posters.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American
management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold
all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new
equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as
bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable
to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for
unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next
year's racing team was out-sourced to India.

Sadly, the End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty
years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't
make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen
plants inside the US. The last quarter's results: TOYOTA makes 4
billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting
bonuses...
and now wants the Government to 'bail them out'.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 8:31 am
From: John Galt

Caesar Romano wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 06:34:59 -0600, John Galt <kady101@gmail.com>
> wrote Re Re: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign
> Workers!:
>
>> The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
>> workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
>> jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
>> also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
>> import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
>> recruit them.)
>
> I worked for 40-years as an engineer before I retired. The H-1B
> "highly trained" workers are not filling a gap opened by a lack of
> trained American workers.

In education and allied health, it most certainly is. I don't know about
the engineering profession.
>
> They are filling a gap created by highly trained American workers who
> are (or were) reluctant to work for the slave-wages offered the H-1Bs.

Again, in your field, that may be the case.
>
> Here's how it used to work in my field:
>
> A company like Bechtel gets a big project and they need several
> hundred engineers. The know they can get all the American engineers
> they need for $50/hour. They advertise the openings for $30/hour and
> get very few takers. They then offer to sponsor H-1B foreigners
> because they "...can't get enough engineers.." They get a bunch of
> Pakistani, Chinese and Indian engineers who are quite qualified, speak
> English, and are willing to work for 35% or 40% less to be able to
> stay in the U.S.
>
> This goes on for 10 or 15 years, and the next generation of college
> student decides that engineering isn't for them. They'll study law or
> banking or whatever. The engineering schools need students to stay in
> business, so they actively recruit foreign students such as
> Pakistanis, Indians, and Chinese. These foreign students come here to
> study on a student visa. When they graduate they must leave the
> country... Unless they get H1-B jobs. Then they can stay.
>
> It's probably a very similar scenario in the computer and medical
> technology fields.

Not as far as I can tell. Students don't come from overseas to go to
nursing school. They take their training there, and then are actively
recruited in those areas where the shortages exist, and again as far as
I am aware, are paid the same as any other worker.

== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 8:39 am
From: "HeyBub"

John Galt wrote:
>>
>> Do you have any doubt that a retired civil engineer couldn't teach
>> plane geometry off the top of this head, or that a retired chemical
>> engineer couldn't do the same thing for high school chemistry?
>
> There's no question that they could, and if that was the only reason
> for needing training in pedagogy, preventing them from doing so is
> indeed silly. However, that's not the entire story. There is actual
> skill involved in managing 30 kids in order to achieve an academic
> objective, and that skill is almost always assumed to be simplistic
> by those who have never been in a classroom situation. It's not.

You make a good point but a person who is intimately familiar with the
subject can, I think, pass on his passion to the class. Furthermore, science
and math classes self-select the motivated student. Mopes, squints, dobads,
goblins, cut-purses, knuckle-draggers, and other assorted detritus don't
sign up for high school physics. I suggest that for advanced math, physics,
chemistry, and even biology, the kids in the class WANT to be there, they
WANT to learn. To inflict them with a biology teacher who believes humans
and dinosaurs were contemporaries is the greater crime.* To subject a
third-semester algebra student to the LAW that the sum of two squares [ a^2
+ b^2 ] cannot be factored is obscene.

>
> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?

Lots of reasons. One being the retired engineer's wife. In many cases, it
could be a part-time job. Or he might work for no pay at all. Maybe he just
wants to be around youngsters. Maybe he's a wannabe pedophile. Maybe he's
insane. Whatever the reason, good or bad, why let some silliness stand in
the way?

>
> Our current unemployment problem is not with the professional groups
> you mention. They either have jobs or are enjoying comfortable
> retirements from which they are unlikely to want to pull themselves
> out of bed at 6AM each day. Our current unemployment problem are
> predominately people who are NOT qualified by educational background
> to teach in the schools. The number of people with sufficient
> education to teach that are without work isn't large enough to
> address the problem.

In my view, if there's ONE qualified instructor that's prevented from
teaching by these rules, that's one too many.

>
> Yes, but no experience in teaching and motivating students who don't
> want to be in the classroom. And therein lies the reason that we do
> have teacher training. I'd agree with you that there is some
> unnecessary bureaucracy there, but it's not ALL unnecessary.

I agree that not ALL regulations or bureaucracy is unnecessary - just those
rules that get in the way of a gifted instructor and a class of students
thirsting for knowledge.

It's hard to argue a negative but presumably we have classrooms staffed,
right now, 100%, by those who've had training in motivating reluctant
pupils. We also have a horrendous drop-out rate. Is this cause-and-effect or
is it the prevention of a much worse case?

--------
* 40% of Texas high school biology teachers believe humans hunted dinosaurs.

== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 9:18 am
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Dec 6, 2:25 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
>
> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
> >With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
> >November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
> >workers?
>
> >http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>
> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>
> ted

By the way, the 140,00 foreign workers does not include the horde of
low-IQ welfare leeching
illegal immigrants. Deport those 15 million (conservative estimate)
and an economic boom would
sweep this nation.

mitch

== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 9:29 am
From: clams_casino

hpope@lycos.com wrote:

What do you propose doing with the 700,000 residents of Alaska who all
get their thousands of dollar welfare checks by taxing oil company
profits and seeking $MM of handouts from the federal coffer?

== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 9:31 am
From: John Galt

HeyBub wrote:
> John Galt wrote:
>>> Do you have any doubt that a retired civil engineer couldn't teach
>>> plane geometry off the top of this head, or that a retired chemical
>>> engineer couldn't do the same thing for high school chemistry?
>> There's no question that they could, and if that was the only reason
>> for needing training in pedagogy, preventing them from doing so is
>> indeed silly. However, that's not the entire story. There is actual
>> skill involved in managing 30 kids in order to achieve an academic
>> objective, and that skill is almost always assumed to be simplistic
>> by those who have never been in a classroom situation. It's not.
>
> You make a good point but a person who is intimately familiar with the
> subject can, I think, pass on his passion to the class. Furthermore, science
> and math classes self-select the motivated student. Mopes, squints, dobads,
> goblins, cut-purses, knuckle-draggers, and other assorted detritus don't
> sign up for high school physics.

You're assuming high school upper level. Very few, if any, secondary
teachers have entire courseloads of advanced elective classes. If you
want to address the teacher shortfall, you have to assume that the
classrooms that are in need of certified teachers are 7th and 8th grade
math. Your passion for the subject bounces off. You need classroom
management skills, and if you're good at that, MAYBE the passion can be
a positive.

I suggest that for advanced math, physics,
> chemistry, and even biology, the kids in the class WANT to be there, they
> WANT to learn. To inflict them with a biology teacher who believes humans
> and dinosaurs were contemporaries is the greater crime.* To subject a
> third-semester algebra student to the LAW that the sum of two squares [ a^2
> + b^2 ] cannot be factored is obscene.
>
>> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
>> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>
> Lots of reasons. One being the retired engineer's wife. In many cases, it
> could be a part-time job. Or he might work for no pay at all. Maybe he just
> wants to be around youngsters. Maybe he's a wannabe pedophile. Maybe he's
> insane. Whatever the reason, good or bad, why let some silliness stand in
> the way?

No reason. Problem is that experience shows that without preparation,
they go running for the exits after they see the dirty side of the job.
To go back to my example (Texas), most districts run alternative
certification programs for professional hires to get around all the
"silliness." It costs about $500 for tick tack stuff (licensing fees,
background checks, fingerprinting, what have you) and then $4,000 which
is deducted on a monthly basis during the first year of employment.

That's about as easy as it can be made without having to force the
district to eat the cost of the program. With all that, you still have a
huge need for teachers in certain areas.
>
>> Our current unemployment problem is not with the professional groups
>> you mention. They either have jobs or are enjoying comfortable
>> retirements from which they are unlikely to want to pull themselves
>> out of bed at 6AM each day. Our current unemployment problem are
>> predominately people who are NOT qualified by educational background
>> to teach in the schools. The number of people with sufficient
>> education to teach that are without work isn't large enough to
>> address the problem.
>
> In my view, if there's ONE qualified instructor that's prevented from
> teaching by these rules, that's one too many.

See above. I can't speak to what goes on in other states (states with
strong teachers unions hate these alternative certification programs)
but having a workable alt cert program hasn't helped the shortfalls in
Texas.
>
>> Yes, but no experience in teaching and motivating students who don't
>> want to be in the classroom. And therein lies the reason that we do
>> have teacher training. I'd agree with you that there is some
>> unnecessary bureaucracy there, but it's not ALL unnecessary.
>
> I agree that not ALL regulations or bureaucracy is unnecessary - just those
> rules that get in the way of a gifted instructor and a class of students
> thirsting for knowledge.
>
>
> It's hard to argue a negative but presumably we have classrooms staffed,
> right now, 100%, by those who've had training in motivating reluctant
> pupils. We also have a horrendous drop-out rate. Is this cause-and-effect or
> is it the prevention of a much worse case?

Prevention of a worse case. There's a number of situations which have
contributed to the motivation and drop-out problems. Off the top of my head:

1) The movement, for $$$ reasons, from K-8 to K-5 and 6-8 campuses of
massive (and unmanageable) size.

2) The defunding of industrial arts programs (e.g., non-collegiate track
education) at the secondary levels.

3) The underfunding of behavioral intervention programs at the secondary
level.

4) Permitting unmanageable (35+) class sizes at the secondary levels in
nonelective classes.

5) The termination of performance based "tracking" (gifted/talented
tracking programs still exist, but God Help You if you're an highly
motivated average IQ kid in the 7th grade.)

Make me king for a day and let me fix one, and I'd fix (2). The vast
majority of disruptive students are disruptive because they simply
shouldn't be taking the classes they're told to take. We educate all
students as if they're going to Yale, so not only do kids who can't do
college prep work fail, they get pissed off about it, act out, and take
a bunch of other kids down with them. It's stupid, stupid, stupid.

>
> --------
> * 40% of Texas high school biology teachers believe humans hunted dinosaurs.

I don't see this as a problem, because teachers (understanding that
there are always exceptions on both sides of such debates) teach what
they're told to teach (or, they teach what's needed for the state exam,
if you prefer).

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 6:19 am
From: "carkenord@juno.com"

I am going to buy an 8gb USB flash memory stick.

Price has fallen down to about $2 per gig.

I want a "stick" with _NO_ U3 or software.

In terms of reliability and longevity, are there brands to avoid?

Are there brands that "stand out" as being better than average?

What's the opinion on SANDISK brand?

Thanks, folks........ Lee in Denver CO

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 6:35 am
From: "TKM"

<carkenord@juno.com> wrote in message
news:efeb6d9b-f900-4252-9615-44ad09eb8f65@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I am going to buy an 8gb USB flash memory stick.
>
> Price has fallen down to about $2 per gig.
>
> I want a "stick" with _NO_ U3 or software.
>
> In terms of reliability and longevity, are there brands to avoid?
>
> Are there brands that "stand out" as being better than average?
>
> What's the opinion on SANDISK brand?
>
> Thanks, folks........ Lee in Denver CO
>

I've never had any problems with any brand of stick -- even the cheapies
given away at trade shows. I think simplicity = reliability in this case.
My first, a 512 MB Lexar, bought in 2004 is still in weekly use.

TKM

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 6:35 am
From: BigDog1

On Dec 6, 7:19 am, "carken...@juno.com" <carken...@juno.com> wrote:
> I am going to buy an 8gb USB flash memory stick.
>
> Price has fallen down to about $2 per gig.
>
> I want a "stick" with _NO_ U3 or software.
>
> In terms of reliability and longevity, are there brands to avoid?
>
> Are there brands that "stand out" as being better than average?
>
> What's the opinion on SANDISK brand?
>
> Thanks, folks........ Lee in Denver CO

Buy the cheapest one you can find that meets your needs. There is no
difference in quality or reliability from one to the next. Brand
markings are irrelevant.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 7:29 am
From: max

In article
<efeb6d9b-f900-4252-9615-44ad09eb8f65@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
"carkenord@juno.com" <carkenord@juno.com> wrote:

just buy whatever. if you don't like whatever it comes with, erase it.
No biggie. Buy cheap; avoid big "names" like sony.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 9:31 am
From: Jeff

carkenord@juno.com wrote:
> I am going to buy an 8gb USB flash memory stick.
>
> Price has fallen down to about $2 per gig.
>
> I want a "stick" with _NO_ U3 or software.
>
> In terms of reliability and longevity, are there brands to avoid?
>
> Are there brands that "stand out" as being better than average?
>
> What's the opinion on SANDISK brand?

I have little knowledge of USB sticks but have a lot of experience
with flash memory used in cameras.

Now, it may be that memory as a commodity has reached a high level of
development and brand X may be very good.

Flash memory has two properties you may be interested in. One is
"speed", and if you are transferring 8GB, that can take a while.

The other is wear, flash memory wears a bit with each use and in many
products there is wear leveling software so the same bits aren't written
to, rather the wear is spread out.

Sandisk is a major brand and was one of the first to stress
reliability and speed and even performance at temperature extremes. I
have had problems with some flash memory and found some way too slow,
but that was a couple years ago and things may be very different now.

If I were you, I'd buy the Sandisk for a slight premium over the X
Brand. Particularly in the largest size. YMMV.

Jeff

>
> Thanks, folks........ Lee in Denver CO
>
>
>

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 10:52 am
From: "Daniel T."

"carkenord@juno.com" <carkenord@juno.com> wrote:

I have had very good luck with Ativa sticks, which I think is Office
Depot's generic brand.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Country Genealogy & Family History Studies:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cc83a8111ae1ced9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 7:44 am
From: family-living

Country Genealogy & Family History Studies:
Comprehensive Indexing of Family Genealogy
& History Internet Education Directory

BEGIN at:
Ancestor Roots Information: A-Z
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/ancestorrootsinformationdatabases.htm

EXAMPLE: Evaluation format for
sample country is repeated for every
other country in the world, throughout
the Ancestor Roots Information site.
Every available site in the world has been
placed online, with information related to
civil records, culture, genealogy, libraries,
museums, printed country family history
outlines, country studies groups, individual
identity information, indigenous peoples, etc.

Country Selected: ITALY, at:
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/ancestorrootsinformationdatabases.htm#Italy

First Link goes to ITALY, at:
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/regionalgenealogy.htm#Italy
(1) First entry is Wikipedia article on ITALY
(2) Second entry is country profile - Italia
(3) Third entry is Wikipedia Portal:Italy
(4) Fourth entry is Library of Congress
Portals to the World: Italy
(5) Fifth entry is Genealogy and Population:
sites on ITALY
(6) Sixth entry is: General sites,
where available, re: ITALY

Second Link goes to ITALY:
U.S. Department of State
Country Documents
http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/reciprocity/reciprocity_3589.html#docs

Third Link goes to ITALY research,
that Includes hundreds of published
sources.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Italy.aspx

Fourth Link goes to ITALY
Encyclopedia reference, with
data on Libraries & Museums.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2586700275.html#LIBRARIES_AND_MUSEUMS

Fifth Link goes to ITALY
Wikipedia Universities.
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/schoolscollegesuniversities.htm#ITALY
Reference, or other related education
resource, enhanced with links
and references to top 500 ranked
universities (& sub links) worldwide.

Sixth Link goes to Culture of ITALY,
online encyclopedia reference resource.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761555207/Italy.html
Sub Links: Higher education studies
sites, libraries and other depositories,
with related country culture links.

Seventh and more Links, include
vital record data, civil registration,
guides and directories, etc.

Family Genealogy and History
Internet Education Directory.
http://groups.google.com/group/Family-Genealogy-and-History-Internet-Education-Directory/web/family-genealogy-and-history-internet-education-directory?hl=en
Best online list of professional
genealogy and family history
research sites on the Internet.

Major Directory Link Categories
(Left Side Column)
Education:
http://academic-genealogy.com/#ACADEMIC
History:
http://academic-genealogy.com/#HISTORY
Resources:
http://academic-genealogy.com/#RESOURCES
(Right Side Column)
Family:
http://academic-genealogy.com/#LIVING
Religion:
http://academic-genealogy.com/#RELIGION
Webmasters:
http://academic-genealogy.com/#WEBMASTERS

Additional Free Standing Links:

How Do I Begin To Document
and File Family History?
An Introduction.
http://academic-genealogy.com/documentfilefamilyhistory.htm

News, Media and Travel
http://academic-genealogy.com/newsmediatravel.htm
Worldwide information for
genealogists, family historians
and other research specialists
involved in travel, tours
and accommodations.

Regional Genealogy and Local
History Research: Local History
& Genealogy Portals to the World:
http://academic-genealogy.com/regionalgenealogy.htm
areas, countries, directories, ethnic
group populations, organizations,
local ancestry & local history studies.

SEARCH DIRECTORY:
using Google - Pico - Yahoo!.
http://academic-genealogy.com/searchthissite.htm

What's New in Genealogy
& Family History Resources?
http://academic-genealogy.com/whatsnewingenealogyfamilyhistory.htm

MISSION STATEMENT:
To promote scholarly educational
access to all key worldwide Internet
genealogical and family history
databases and resources: scholarly
mega site map of world wide Internet
resources.
<www.academic-genealogy.com/>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ccleaner
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c02b82a17e67ba79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 7:48 am
From: P.W. Stynx

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:54:55 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>Is anyone familiar with http://www.ccleaner.com ?
>
>Any concerns? I'm always hesitant about free software, but someone
>suggested this one.

I started using it a few months ago, and now I'm a huge fan. Love it.

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Frugal Living

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Saturday, December 6, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest