Frugal Living: Dec 29, 2008

Monday, December 29, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Minutes For My Prepaid T-Mobile Cell Phone Account?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4e3d69e0692f561d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 11:48 pm
From: SMS

Tiziano wrote:
> I will soon have to purchase some more minutes for my pre-paid T-Mobile
> cell phone account. (I have what T-Mobile calls a Pay-As-You-Go plan.)
>
> T-Mobile offers 1,000 minutes for $100.00. Is it possible to purchase
> that many minutes somewhere else at a cheaper price? And if I do
> purchase minutes from some source other than T-Mobile, will I lose any
> of the features offered by my plan?
>
> Note: I would really like to keep the discussion focused on my wanting
> to purchase additional minutes for my T-Mobile pre-paid account at a
> cheaper price. I am not interested in hearing how AT&T, Verizon, or
> whoever plans are much better/cheaper/clearer/cover more areas/have more
> features etc. etc. etc.

Target often has sales on the $100 card for $80.

Other than that, look for a coupon code for callingmart.com, i.e.
"ca3p-1207" or "hpyxmas".

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has Anyone Tried L.E.D. Lightbulbs For Their Home?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/804d0f27da78667a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 12:58 am
From: IRON MONKEY

On Dec 28, 11:47 am, starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> 30,000 hours, etc.
> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.

yes the leds work great , just be shure to use a low voltage
drip ,dimmer.
this will increase the life of you'r led lights.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 7:07 am
From: Marsha

Jeff wrote:
> Most of my electric bill is not lighting, at least since I
switched to
> CFLs and shut off unneeded lights. Refrigerators and particularly your
> water heater are where to look. You can't really get a more efficient
> water heater, but you can get a blanket and consider solar hot water.
>
> Jeff

Does a water heater blanket really save much? I've thought about
getting one, but wasn't sure if it was worth it.

Marsha/Ohio

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 7:43 am
From: phil scott

On Dec 28, 9:06 pm, Jeff <dont_bug...@all.uk> wrote:
> starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> > saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> > cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> > 30,000 hours, etc.
>
> Now, where's Don Klipstein when you need him!
>
> Efficiency of stock LEDs is not quite up to CFLs, though some
> leading edge LEDs are in the neighborhood. CFLs are your best deal for
> household lighting, and LEDs for flashlights.
>
> Most of my electric bill is not lighting, at least since I switched
> to CFLs and shut off unneeded lights. Refrigerators and particularly
> your water heater are where to look. You can't really get a more
> efficient water heater, but you can get a blanket and consider solar hot
> water.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> > Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> > online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> > light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> > Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> > light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> > Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> > quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> > possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> > Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> > raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> > pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> > worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

actually CFL's save in the range of 50 to 70 pct compared to
incandescent (depends if its cool white or warm white cfl, warm white
is full spectrum light a lot healthier but its not as efficient...
LED's are 90 to 97% more efficient than incandescent. However LEDs
are not full spectrum light not even close)

Phil scott, electrical engineer

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 7:45 am
From: phil scott

On Dec 29, 7:07 am, Marsha <m...@xeb.net> wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
>
> > Most of my electric bill is not lighting, at least since I
> switched to
>
> > CFLs and shut off unneeded lights. Refrigerators and particularly your
> > water heater are where to look. You can't really get a more efficient
> > water heater, but you can get a blanket and consider solar hot water.
>
> > Jeff
>
> Does a water heater blanket really save much? I've thought about
> getting one, but wasn't sure if it was worth it.
>
> Marsha/Ohio

it will pay back in under a year in cold weather, you can use any old
fiber glass batt insul to do the job,

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 7:47 am
From: phil scott

On Dec 28, 8:34 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tomes wrote:
> > <starrfl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> >> saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> >> cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> >> 30,000 hours, etc.
> >> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> >> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> >> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> >> Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> >> light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> >> Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> >> quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> >> possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> >> Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> >> raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> >> pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> >> worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.
>
> > I tried this experiment, for what it is worth.
> > I swapped out one of the rear backup lightbulbs for a 5 cell(?) LED light
> > [the biggest one that would fit into the enclosure] and left the other one
> > in place. While looking at the Jeep from the rear it appears to be much
> > brighter. I thought 'well this is something good'. However, when I am
> > inside the Jeep and backing up I see very little from the LED side behind
> > me.
>
> > My conclusion here is that the LED looks brighter when one is looking at it,
> > but it does not 'throw' the light out well at all in that situation. My
> > quest for lighting up the area of backing up failed with the LED.
>
> A friend gave me a single-AA-cell LED (no idea how many individual bulbs)
> flashlight that gives a 1" circle of extremely bright light 6" away and a 6'
> circle of bright light 30 feet away. Not much spill. I'm amazed at how really
> good it is.
>
> Still, $80 for a 100-watt light bulb is not exactly competitive, especially
> since we don't actually use all that much electricity for light. CFs will have
> to do for a while.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Bev
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> "When I was in college, the only job I could get was
> shitting on people's lawns. Sure, the owners complained,
> but it was honest work and it kept me off welfare..."
> -- M. Tabnik in mcfl (paraphrased)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

try ebay for cheap LED's and try some in the 40 watt equivalent
range, those might be in the 10 dollar or less range per bulb
those prices are coming down fast

Phil scott

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 8:47 am
From: luminousviews@gmail.com

On Dec 28, 6:01 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> On Dec 28, 9:47 am, starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> > saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> > cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> > 30,000 hours, etc.
> > Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> > online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> > light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> > Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> > light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> > Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> > quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> > possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> > Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> > raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> > pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> > worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.
>
> Dr John Ott wrote a book about 30 years ago on the liability of not
> getting enough broad spectrum light, sun light or incandescent bulb
> light..otherwise LED's have to be the best thing since sliced bread in
> this energy market and with the price of LED's dropping... Id make
> sure I had one or two incandescent bulbs running near a commonly used
> table or chair a few hours each evening, esp if I was home bound or it
> was winter. In the summer most people get enough natural light..its
> an actual vital nutrient, among other things natural light allows the
> body to make vitamin D... lack of light is recognised in alaska
> winters as a serrous problem, causes depression. (even in the old
> days with incandescent bulbs)..its worth some investigation.
>
> Phil scott- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

FYI:
Interior light levels are typically so low as to make Mr Ott's
conclusions irrelevent. This is why light therapy boxes are so bright,
and why only the large ones are effective.

Getting outside or sit near a window will do more for you than
changing all your lights!

-----
RickR
(Lighting Consultant for 25 years)

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 9:30 am
From: me@privacy.net

phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:

>actually CFL's save in the range of 50 to 70 pct compared to
>incandescent (depends if its cool white or warm white cfl, warm white
>is full spectrum light a lot healthier but its not as efficient...
>LED's are 90 to 97% more efficient than incandescent. However LEDs
>are not full spectrum light not even close)

Does it make any sense to switch from CFL back to
incandescent in winter time so that the bulbs will help
HEAT the house as well as light it?

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 9:40 am
From: Evelyn Leeper

me@privacy.net wrote:
> phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>> actually CFL's save in the range of 50 to 70 pct compared to
>> incandescent (depends if its cool white or warm white cfl, warm white
>> is full spectrum light a lot healthier but its not as efficient...
>> LED's are 90 to 97% more efficient than incandescent. However LEDs
>> are not full spectrum light not even close)
>
> Does it make any sense to switch from CFL back to
> incandescent in winter time so that the bulbs will help
> HEAT the house as well as light it?

Not really--the bulbs are a very inefficient way to heat the house.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 10:42 am
From: phil scott

On Dec 29, 9:30 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> >actually CFL's save in the range of 50 to 70 pct compared to
> >incandescent (depends if its cool white or warm white cfl, warm white
> >is full spectrum light a lot healthier but its not as efficient...
> >LED's are 90 to 97% more efficient than incandescent. However LEDs
> >are not full spectrum light not even close)
>
> Does it make any sense to switch from CFL back to
> incandescent in winter time so that the bulbs will help
> HEAT the house as well as light it?

your question is generally well founded... exceptions revolve around
the cost of your current heat source.

an extreme exception to your view would be if the home is currently
heated with ground source heat pump.. electric light bulb heat is
vastly more expensive in that isolated case.

Phil scott

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 10:47 am
From: phil scott

On Dec 29, 8:47 am, luminousvi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 28, 6:01 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 28, 9:47 am, starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> > > saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> > > cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> > > 30,000 hours, etc.
> > > Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> > > online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> > > light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> > > Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> > > light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> > > Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> > > quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> > > possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> > > Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> > > raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> > > pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> > > worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.
>
> > Dr John Ott wrote a book about 30 years ago on the liability of not
> > getting enough broad spectrum light, sun light or incandescent bulb
> > light..otherwise LED's have to be the best thing since sliced bread in
> > this energy market and with the price of LED's dropping... Id make
> > sure I had one or two incandescent bulbs running near a commonly used
> > table or chair a few hours each evening, esp if I was home bound or it
> > was winter. In the summer most people get enough natural light..its
> > an actual vital nutrient, among other things natural light allows the
> > body to make vitamin D... lack of light is recognised in alaska
> > winters as a serrous problem, causes depression. (even in the old
> > days with incandescent bulbs)..its worth some investigation.
>
> > Phil scott- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> FYI:
> Interior light levels are typically so low as to make Mr Ott's
> conclusions irrelevent. This is why light therapy boxes are so bright,
> and why only the large ones are effective.
>
> Getting outside or sit near a window will do more for you than
> changing all your lights!
>
> -----
> RickR
> (Lighting Consultant for 25 years)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

you sound completely well informed and are no doubt correct in your
remarks ....a few incandescent bulbs might well not be of benefit for
a person in need of therapeutic levels of natural light... however it
might be that the light bulbs would keep the average person out of
trouble to some degree... john Ott mentioned that in some aspect or
the other but it was 30 years ago that i read the book... technology
and research no doubt has advanced since then.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama birth/school records found in Jakarta
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a9dcbec05844fdda?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 2:49 am
From: Al Nakba

On Dec 27, 12:57 pm, "Frank Arthur" <A...@Arthurian.com> wrote:
> "Dayafter Today" <G...@suckz.net> wrote in message
>
> news:rjw5l.10324$Ei5.909@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> > <wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:pd1dl45kcc961ukb27bfof0e7unitbn60v@4ax.com...
> >>http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>
> >> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>
> >> ted
>
> > Who cares?
>
> Not so sure if Abraham Lincoln was a U.S. citizen!
>
> Obama Detractor's List
>
> Barack Hussein Obama is:
>
> Muslim
> Evangelist supporter
> Jewish President
> Socialist
> Communist
> Marxist
> Homosexual
> Anti-homosexual
> Gun Grabber
> Not Black enough
> Too Black
> Foreigner non citizen
> Supports revolutionaries
> Baby killer
> Anti-abortion
> Change White House to Black House
> Hires only Muslims for cabinet
> Hires only Blacks for cabinet
> War monger
> Will give citizenship to Chicanos
> Take your money and give it to others
> Increase your taxes
> Close up all the churches
> Keep you from your own doctor
> Controlled by the press
> Controlled by the Zionists
> Plans to destroy the USA
> His 9 million dollar vacation
> Will talk to Iranians
> Was named Barry Soetoro
> Has no birth certificate
> Is really Osama bin Laden

his father flew the coop but obama was reared by frank davis..

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 4:06 am
From: Liberal Whisperer

On Dec 27, 2:37 pm, "Dayafter Today" <G...@suckz.net> wrote:
> <wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:pd1dl45kcc961ukb27bfof0e7unitbn60v@4ax.com...
>
> >http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>
> > This citizenship issue will no go away.
>
> > ted
>
> Who cares?

You would if Barry was a white Republican.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 4:39 am
From: joe

Liberal Whisperer wrote:
> On Dec 27, 2:37 pm, "Dayafter Today" <G...@suckz.net> wrote:
>> <wis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:pd1dl45kcc961ukb27bfof0e7unitbn60v@4ax.com...
>>
>>> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>>> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>>> ted
>> Who cares?
>
> You would if Barry was a white Republican.

they'd want to tar and feather him if he was a republican. [which I
predict he will act more like than he will act like a dumocRAT once he
has fooled the dumb masses and skated from illegal alien to POTUS]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FDA: Sushi Recall
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/59d0468eb81caced?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 3:18 am
From: ultimauw@live.com

http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/krc12_08.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I sure do want my penny!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/20ccfc5ba13a12fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 7:28 am
From: "Bill"

I purchased something at a store for $1.49 and gave the cashier $1.50.

She put the money in her cash drawer and then just stared at me.

I stared back.

After about 10 seconds, she says... "Do you want your penny?"

I said.. "I sure do want my penny!"

She then reluctantly gave me my penny change...

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 8:10 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

On Dec 29, 10:28 am, "Bill" <billnomailnosp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I purchased something at a store for $1.49 and gave the cashier $1.50.
>
> She put the money in her cash drawer and then just stared at me.
>
> I stared back.
>
> After about 10 seconds, she says... "Do you want your penny?"
>
> I said.. "I sure do want my penny!"
>
> She then reluctantly gave me my penny change...

That is odd. I know a penny is not worth a cent any more, but it's the
principle of the thing. We expect our correct change. Some places
keep a donation canister there for charity in case people care to
donate excess change. The change must be offered to the customer. I
chalk it up to poor training and possibly youth. You provided no
details so that's all I can go on.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 8:17 am
From: Donna

MSfortune@mcpmail.com wrote in news:c473f1ef-d27c-42d1-9192-99897e8cd764
@d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> The change must be offered to the customer. I
> chalk it up to poor training and possibly youth.

A penny is seen as 1 cent rather than 1/100 of a dollar. I want my pennies
too.

--
~Donna A~
http://www.frugalsewing.com
http://www.thesewingdictionary.com

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 9:17 am
From: "'nam vet."

In article <Xns9B8372C7E78ACdonnaixnayontheamspa@69.16.185.250>,
Donna <donna@ixnayontheamspaycroakerwoods.com> wrote:

> MSfortune@mcpmail.com wrote in news:c473f1ef-d27c-42d1-9192-99897e8cd764
> @d36g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > The change must be offered to the customer. I
> > chalk it up to poor training and possibly youth.
>
> A penny is seen as 1 cent rather than 1/100 of a dollar. I want my pennies
> too.

do you remember the movie starring Weird Al.? no not Gore.
VH-1
the beggar gets one penny from the rich bastard and goes into this
outrageous thank yous.
turns out the penny was very rare and valuable . funny!
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.cicigogo.cn Nike AirMax,nike shox,Air Jordan,air force one,dunk
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b6d386bce35b921a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 7:33 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone here have a digital projector?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c0e2c1a4f21aba74?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 8:31 am
From: OhioGuy

I just bought an Optoma DLP projector. ($299 at Fry's) I've always
wanted one of these to watch the occasional movie on, but never went
ahead and bought one until now. It arrived this morning. Although the
literature says that the bulb should last 3,000 to 4,000 hours, the
warranty on the bulb is only 90 days, so I'm a little worried.

Considering the high cost of replacement bulbs (this one costs
roughly about the same as I paid new for the entire unit), I was
wondering if any of you folks out there who actually have owned one of
these things could give me suggestions on making it last?

In other words, do you have any tips for things I can do to make it
less likely that the bulb will fail early? The only idea I have so far
is to limit it to watching DVD's. (rather than regular TV)

When you've had your bulb fail, what caused it? I guess that could
help me know what to avoid.

Thanks!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 9:41 am
From: skarkada@gmail.com

We don't have a DLP projector, but we have a DLP TV. Our TV is about 5
years old and we were also worried about the bulb at that time. The
original bulb in our TV is still working fine and it is still bright.
Our TV produces colorful and brighter pictures than many other HD
projection TVs owned by our friends.

We don't keep the TV on all day long even though it is the main TV (in
the living room). It is probably on for about 15 hours a week.

I think you should just enjoy your projector and not worry about the
bulb's life.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wanna be depressed?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d7707daeed27d957?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 11:01 am
From: Tom

Mark Anderson wrote:
> This is a generic problem with ebay. There are too many, perhaps the
> vast majority, of sellers who try and sell their used junk for more than
> what you can by new. The computer section of Craigslist is similar if
> not worse. Now whenever I need some electronic doodad I just go over to
> my local brick and mortar Microcenter and buy it hassle free, and
> probably cheaper too.

You could find out a typical price using Google Shopping, Overclockers
UK, Ebuyer or even Microcenter etc. and then buy it cheaper from ebay.

In case it's expensive on Ebay, Ebuyer and Overclockers are usually
cheaper than brick and mortar shops, though it's arguably less hassle free.

--
Tom

==============================================================================
TOPIC: if you want to suffer from viruses every day
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/510cd3701046bca7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 11:08 am
From: Tom

MSfortune@mcpmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 28, 6:22 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>> eltahelawimoney wrote:
>>> if you suffer of viruses every day go this url. download the best
>>> viruses software at all AVG anti-virus free edition 8.0.176
>> Hmm - someone posting from Africa is offering virus software? Is that
>> to rid or load the viruses?
>
> Naw. It's just a coincidence that the post is about AVG. These
> scammers look for ways to relate a post to the group in any lame way
> so they can project the url of their blog site. AVG itself is
> reputable. They simply have become user unfriendly in my book and
> better free software is available. But again, the op is not concerned
> in any way about helping anybody.

I recently switched from AVG to Avast on a friend's computer for similar
reasons.

You could try Ubuntu too, which I believe is a better operating system
to Windows, especially if you're largely concerned with viruses. You
have to spend a little bit of time learning how to do things "the Ubuntu
way" initially for some things. Most things, however, are pretty similar
to Windows.

http://www.ubuntu.com/

--
Tom

==============================================================================
TOPIC: poverty line
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4eaa805a9a816468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 11:15 am
From: JonL

James wrote:
> If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do? Are
> you supposed to be able to afford a certain size apartment with heat,
> eat healthy, and dress warmly? Or is it just a number that qualifies
> you for welfare?

There's no level of affluence you're "supposed" to have. There should
be no official Poverty Line. Back in the Old days, peeps didn't know
they were poor, yet they survived.

"Let them eat cake"

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 24 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 1:24 pm
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

On Dec 28, 12:47 pm, starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> 30,000 hours, etc.
> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.

If I can't forecast a payback of under three years or so, I'm not
interested. Many of the CFL's promised phenomenal longevity and
crapped out in short order. Now they seem very good. I never have one
go bad. But I never paid more than $3 for one either. Some were on
sale for $1. An LED should last much longer than a CFL. I'm unwilling
to pay $70 for an LED. What if you drop or damage it? This could be a
new direction for thieves. Steal all the LEDs out of a home before
leaving. I believe the penalty cost for being innovative is too high
on LEDs right now.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 2:48 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper

me@privacy.net wrote:
> starrfleat@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
>> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
>> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
>
> Sam's Club also has them in a three pack for $15
>
> Supposed to be equivalent to 45 watt incandescent bulb

They might be better if you have a dimmer switch--there are some
dimmable CFLs, but they're still hard to find.

Also, LEDs are basically directional, while CFLs are broad-range.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 6:01 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 28, 9:47 am, starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> 30,000 hours, etc.
> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.

Dr John Ott wrote a book about 30 years ago on the liability of not
getting enough broad spectrum light, sun light or incandescent bulb
light..otherwise LED's have to be the best thing since sliced bread in
this energy market and with the price of LED's dropping... Id make
sure I had one or two incandescent bulbs running near a commonly used
table or chair a few hours each evening, esp if I was home bound or it
was winter. In the summer most people get enough natural light..its
an actual vital nutrient, among other things natural light allows the
body to make vitamin D... lack of light is recognised in alaska
winters as a serrous problem, causes depression. (even in the old
days with incandescent bulbs)..its worth some investigation.

Phil scott

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 6:02 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 28, 10:54 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >They don't work
>
> Why?

they work.

you just need an array inside a frosted bulb to get a good spread of
light. alone they act like little spot lights more or less.

Phil scott

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 6:04 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 28, 1:24 pm, MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 28, 12:47 pm, starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> > saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> > cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> > 30,000 hours, etc.
> > Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> > online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> > light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> > Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> > light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> > Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> > quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> > possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> > Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> > raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> > pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> > worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.
>
> If I can't forecast a payback of under three years or so, I'm not
> interested. Many of the CFL's promised phenomenal longevity and
> crapped out in short order. Now they seem very good. I never have one
> go bad. But I never paid more than $3 for one either. Some were on
> sale for $1. An LED should last much longer than a CFL. I'm unwilling
> to pay $70 for an LED. What if you drop or damage it? This could be a
> new direction for thieves. Steal all the LEDs out of a home before
> leaving. I believe the penalty cost for being innovative is too high
> on LEDs right now.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

45 watt equivalent LED bulbs are now at 5 dollars if you shop
around. 70 dollars was true about 2 years ago though.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 6:07 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 28, 2:48 pm, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
> > starrfl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> >> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> >> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
>
> > Sam's Club also has them in a three pack for $15
>
> > Supposed to be equivalent to 45 watt incandescent bulb
>
> They might be better if you have a dimmer switch--there are some
> dimmable CFLs, but they're still hard to find.
>
> Also, LEDs are basically directional, while CFLs are broad-range.
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

im in the hvac bidness... you will see spot heating and cooling more
common shortly...and some systems designed to just cool the lower
parts of a room where the occcupants sit.... same with lighting... LED
spot lights put the light on your word or reading area and dont waste
it othersize... not appropriate of course for room lighting etc unless
its in a frosted bulb with reflectors giving a 180 degree spread.

Phil scott

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 7:11 pm
From: "Tomes"

<starrfleat@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:55f8025d-1907-4688-8c64-181095edf617@q36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> 30,000 hours, etc.
> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.

I tried this experiment, for what it is worth.
I swapped out one of the rear backup lightbulbs for a 5 cell(?) LED light
[the biggest one that would fit into the enclosure] and left the other one
in place. While looking at the Jeep from the rear it appears to be much
brighter. I thought 'well this is something good'. However, when I am
inside the Jeep and backing up I see very little from the LED side behind
me.

My conclusion here is that the LED looks brighter when one is looking at it,
but it does not 'throw' the light out well at all in that situation. My
quest for lighting up the area of backing up failed with the LED.
Tomes

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 8:27 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 28, 7:11 pm, "Tomes" <ask...@here.net> wrote:
> <starrfl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:55f8025d-1907-4688-8c64-181095edf617@q36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> > saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> > cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> > 30,000 hours, etc.
> > Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> > online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> > light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> > Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> > light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> > Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> > quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> > possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> > Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> > raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> > pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> > worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.
>
> I tried this experiment, for what it is worth.
> I swapped out one of the rear backup lightbulbs for a 5 cell(?) LED light
> [the biggest one that would fit into the enclosure] and left the other one
> in place. While looking at the Jeep from the rear it appears to be much
> brighter. I thought 'well this is something good'. However, when I am
> inside the Jeep and backing up I see very little from the LED side behind
> me.
>
> My conclusion here is that the LED looks brighter when one is looking at it,
> but it does not 'throw' the light out well at all in that situation. My
> quest for lighting up the area of backing up failed with the LED.
> Tomes- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

thats because no difuser lense was used... for diffusion of the LED
light you need a diffuser, thats what the frosted bulb does

Phil scott

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 8:34 pm
From: The Real Bev

Tomes wrote:

> <starrfleat@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
>> saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
>> cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
>> 30,000 hours, etc.
>> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
>> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
>> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
>> Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
>> light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
>> Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
>> quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
>> possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
>> Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
>> raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
>> pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
>> worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.
>
> I tried this experiment, for what it is worth.
> I swapped out one of the rear backup lightbulbs for a 5 cell(?) LED light
> [the biggest one that would fit into the enclosure] and left the other one
> in place. While looking at the Jeep from the rear it appears to be much
> brighter. I thought 'well this is something good'. However, when I am
> inside the Jeep and backing up I see very little from the LED side behind
> me.
>
> My conclusion here is that the LED looks brighter when one is looking at it,
> but it does not 'throw' the light out well at all in that situation. My
> quest for lighting up the area of backing up failed with the LED.

A friend gave me a single-AA-cell LED (no idea how many individual bulbs)
flashlight that gives a 1" circle of extremely bright light 6" away and a 6'
circle of bright light 30 feet away. Not much spill. I'm amazed at how really
good it is.

Still, $80 for a 100-watt light bulb is not exactly competitive, especially
since we don't actually use all that much electricity for light. CFs will have
to do for a while.

--
Cheers,
Bev
----------------------------------------------------------
"When I was in college, the only job I could get was
shitting on people's lawns. Sure, the owners complained,
but it was honest work and it kept me off welfare..."
-- M. Tabnik in mcfl (paraphrased)

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 9:06 pm
From: Jeff

starrfleat@gmail.com wrote:
> I've seen a lot about L.E.D. lightbulbs being the new thing in
> saving energy. Tales like you could light up an entire house for the
> cost of running one incandescent bulb. The bulbs last from 10,000 to
> 30,000 hours, etc.

Now, where's Don Klipstein when you need him!

Efficiency of stock LEDs is not quite up to CFLs, though some
leading edge LEDs are in the neighborhood. CFLs are your best deal for
household lighting, and LEDs for flashlights.

Most of my electric bill is not lighting, at least since I switched
to CFLs and shut off unneeded lights. Refrigerators and particularly
your water heater are where to look. You can't really get a more
efficient water heater, but you can get a blanket and consider solar hot
water.

Jeff

> Right now, Home Depot is offering an all-white L.E.D. bulb
> online. So far as I can tell, you'd only get the equivalent of the
> light you'd get from one 20 watt incandescent bulb. Pretty dim, to me.
> Some bulbs giving the equivalent of 60 to 100 watt incandescdent
> light are available, but list prices are from $80 to $100 a bulb.
> Has anyone tried this lighting in their home? If so, is the
> quality of light satisfactory? I've seen some articles on the
> possibility of too much blue wave light from these bulbs.
> Our local electric company is raising their rates next year, to
> raise money so they _might_ build a nuclear power plant. I'd love to
> pay less on my electric bill by using these bulbs, if they really
> worked. I'm already turning off my water heater.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 3:22 pm
From: clams_casino

eltahelawimoney wrote:

>if you suffer of viruses every day go this url. download the best
>viruses software at all AVG anti-virus free edition 8.0.176
>
>
>
>

Hmm - someone posting from Africa is offering virus software? Is that
to rid or load the viruses?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 6:25 pm
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

On Dec 28, 6:22 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> eltahelawimoney wrote:
> >if you suffer of viruses every day go this url. download the best
> >viruses software at all AVG anti-virus free edition 8.0.176
>
> Hmm - someone posting from Africa is offering virus software? Is that
> to rid or load the viruses?

Naw. It's just a coincidence that the post is about AVG. These
scammers look for ways to relate a post to the group in any lame way
so they can project the url of their blog site. AVG itself is
reputable. They simply have become user unfriendly in my book and
better free software is available. But again, the op is not concerned
in any way about helping anybody.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What minor frugal change did you make this year?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 3:25 pm
From: clams_casino

lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:

>I'm goign to start baking a lot more bread with the price of bread being so high
>now..
>
>
>
>

The problem we had with making bread was we couldn't stop eating it -
immediately. By buying it, we eat significantly less of it.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 3:30 pm
From: clams_casino

Evelyn Leeper wrote:

> Use the fast-print/draft print options for most print jobs (uses less
> ink). And of course reusing the back of the paper.
>

Biggest mistake we made this year was to purchase a Kodak printer with
the intent of saving on ink costs. It was such a piece of crap, we
junked it after three months. While it did use less ink (the full
print uses about as much ink as a draft on an HP), the draft was full of
skips & very faint. Biggest problem was constant paper jams & software
problems about one in ten prints would require resetting the command -
a constant source of aggravation. It was also painfully slow.
Really slow.

Don't EVER even consider a Kodak printer.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 4:28 pm
From: George

phil scott wrote:
> On Dec 27, 8:58 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> phil scott wrote:
>>> On Dec 26, 11:06 am, val189 <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 24, 6:39 pm, info_at_1-script_dot_...@foo.com (spendwize.com)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Letting the power company turn off your water heater and a/c at their will
>>>>> could be risky. It is possible that if you request that they turn either
>>>>> back on you could be hit with a reconnect or restart charge.
>>>> No - I don't do any requesting. They remotely disrupt the water
>>>> heater and a/c for no more than 15 minutes at a time, no more than x
>>>> number of times a day ( I forget how often), and there's an annual
>>>> limit too. It's all done remotely by the power company. I never
>>>> notice these interruptions. There was absolutely no fee to set this
>>>> up either. Win - win.
>>> I think you get a 10% rate cut as a reward also?
>>> On an oposite front... PG and E (pacific gas and electric) in calif..
>>> has 3 tier rates for homes, but not businesses. business gets the
>>> low rates.
>> I was just looking at the pge residential tariff:
>>
>> http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf
>>
>> It lists 10 different baseline region territories but doesn't describe
>> where they are. What makes these regions unique?
>>
>> The electric rates in our part of PA are on the low side. We typically
>> use ~470 kwh/month. I picked a median baseline and the multiplier for
>> exceeding the baseline and it is comparable to what we pay.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Homes the the low rate for their 'base use', (set at enough to run yer
>>> cell phone charger and the bathroom lights if you down dwandle in the
>>> john). 11 cents a KWH,
>>> if you go over that you hit the mid rate range, amost doulbe in most
>>> cases, so that ends up to be the effective rate if you are furgal as
>>> hell...if you use such things as a TV, hair drier and portch light,
>>> you hit the 35 cents a Kwh range... this has doubled or tripled most
>>> peoples bill since it was instituted.
>>> Frugally speaking you must declare your home to be a business,
>>> accounting, on line services, HQ for your contracting, baby sitting or
>>> drug running operation... then you get the low rates.
>>> Phil scott- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> yes and its a rip off... up 300% in terms of the monthly bill over the
> last 3 years.
> and its done with this low base rate, but normal usage is a lot more
> than that.
>
> Just because you are being ripped off as bad as those in california,
> equity between the states, does not mean that these utility companies
> have not run yet another scam us.

Actually our electric rates rank with the least expensive except for
areas with subsidized hydro. But that is only for the present. Last year
the power company that serves this region announced there will be
significant rate increases in 2010. That is because they know they are
much less expensive than everyone else (they currently are) and because
they will be fully deregulated then they can and will charge a lot more.

Is it possible you had some sort of subsidized rate prior to the current
price structure?

>
> Previous to this the rate was the same no matter how much you
> used...now it doubles or triples as use goes into normal ranges...
>
>
> Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Don't forget, YOU may end up homeless and you will end up getting spat
on like you did to the homeless.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/409073ca23af5885?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 5:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Mr smiley happy sock puppet wrote:
> On Dec 27, 2:44 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Dec 24, 12:34 pm, "Strider" <fgevqre1...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
>>>> "Shawn Hirn" <s...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:srhi-628AAC.10083724122008@74.sub-97-136-209.myvzw.com...
>>
>>>>> I think it sucks, but it seems to me that in many situations,
>>>>> employees can see the writing on the wall. Unless the bosses are
>>>>> cooking the books, when business drops significantly, any employee
>>>>> who doesn't notice that and doesn't start thinking about his or
>>>>> her job security is living in an alternate reality.
>>
>>>> True. Newspapers are notorious for folding with very little advance
>>>> notice. In Dec. 1991 the Dallas Times Herald announced its demise
>>>> on a Sunday afternoon. The paper published its final edition the
>>>> next day. It was hardly a surprise, though -- they'd been in the
>>>> proverbial "downward spiral" for a couple of years at least. I've
>>>> read instances of editors sending the completed pages to the
>>>> pressroom, then having the publisher arrive in the newsroom an hour
>>>> later saying "You've just published the last issue."
>>
>>>> Back in college a classmate had been chosen for a summer internship
>>>> at an out-of-town newspaper. A week or two before he was scheduled
>>>> to report, the paper abruptly folded. No one so much as hinted to
>>>> him that any trouble was afoot.

>>> The Orthodox Capitalists who love to crow about how the homeless are
>>> druggies, idiots, immoral sub human creatures need to take note of
>>> this and realize that they too may be walking the streets eating out
>>> of soup kitchens if/when their company decides to close down, and
>>> sometimes close down abruptly.

>> Anyone with a clue ensures that they cant lose their house
>> even if they do lose their job or will have somewhere to live,
>> even if it isnt as desirable as they would like etc.

> You might want to read up on the Great Depression.

Nope, already did that.

Hardly anyone who owned their house ended up homeless in the great depression.

Some that were stupid enough to rent and who lost their job did, but while the
unemployment rate got to 25%, that still means that 75% were not unemployed.

And plenty who did lose their jobs and who were renting and who did get
kicked out of the place they were renting could still move in with relatives etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/48cf431298caff77?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 6:06 pm
From: The Real Bev

SMS wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> Tomes wrote:
>>
>>> "Marco Tedaldi" ...
>>>> Built in card reader in my computer, portable card reader in my bag
>>>> or backpack (which I almost always have with me). No problems, except
>>>> at my workplace where the computer only has USB-connectors at the
>>>> back and I have to crawl under my desk to connect it. :-)
>>>>
>>> I used to have this problem until I got myself a USB 'extension
>>> cord'. It moved that USB port right up onto my desk with no apparent
>>> loss of speed that I could tell. I still use it even now on my newer
>>> computer at work (a 6th grade classroom) so I can plug in my thumb
>>> drive and have it hidden from the kids.
>>
>> http://www.shop4tech.com/item2853.html has these for very good prices.
>> Friends and I shared 10 for $20 with no shipping charge. I'm absolutely
>> amazed at how much Best Buy etc. charge for USB cables. And don't get
>> me started on Monster cables...
>
> $2 is very expensive for a USB extension cable. I order cables from
> monoprice.com. They have the 6 ft extension cables for $0.87 (if you buy
> 10), or $0.94 for 1, though shipping is $5.95 so it pays to order a
> bunch of stuff if you need it.
>
> <http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030301&p_id=2221&seq=1&format=2">

Thanks, bookmarked for future reference.

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I don't care who your father is! Drop that cross
one more time and you're out of the parade!"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Usenet being phased out
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/88e9e410905fb851?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 6:54 pm
From: "Tomes"

"axiom" ...
> Bert Hyman wrote:
>> "Tomes":
>>> "rick++" ...
>>>> groups.google.com
>>>> It has some shortcomings, but is usable and free.
>>>
>>> news.motsarella.org
>>
>> Even better would be news.motzarella.org.
>>
>> Sign up at http://www.motzarella.org/
>
> Motzarella's getting to be almost as bad as Google Groups for trolls and
> and general PITA idiots. A lot of people are filtering on it now, even
> though it usually means taking out a few legit posters in the group.

Thanks for the spelling fix there Bert... tough to find something that is
misspelled on the net.

I have not seen the major influx of trolls in motzarella; a check of my
killfile shows only one.
Tomes

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 7:11 pm
From: Tiziano

I will soon have to purchase some more minutes for my pre-paid T-Mobile
cell phone account. (I have what T-Mobile calls a Pay-As-You-Go plan.)

T-Mobile offers 1,000 minutes for $100.00. Is it possible to purchase
that many minutes somewhere else at a cheaper price? And if I do
purchase minutes from some source other than T-Mobile, will I lose any
of the features offered by my plan?

Note: I would really like to keep the discussion focused on my wanting
to purchase additional minutes for my T-Mobile pre-paid account at a
cheaper price. I am not interested in hearing how AT&T, Verizon, or
whoever plans are much better/cheaper/clearer/cover more areas/have more
features etc. etc. etc.

Thanks.
--
tb

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 11:10 pm
From: Dave Garland

Tiziano wrote:
> T-Mobile offers 1,000 minutes for $100.00. Is it possible to purchase
> that many minutes somewhere else at a cheaper price?

Cheapest I see offhand is $93 at callingmart.com (
http://tinyurl.com/8k4q33 . No sales tax. Pay with a credit card that
gives you a rebate and that will knock another buck or so off of the
price.

> And if I do
> purchase minutes from some source other than T-Mobile, will I lose any
> of the features offered by my plan?

You mean, the standard T-mobile "To go" features? No.

Dave

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 11:48 pm
From: SMS

Target often has sales on the $100 card for $80.

Other than that, look for a coupon code for callingmart.com, i.e.
"ca3p-1207" or "hpyxmas".

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SpywareGuard2008
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0142e8fb9ee0aff8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 8:56 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

I,m looking for you..........

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AP: Obama birth/school records found in Jakarta
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a9dcbec05844fdda?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 9:17 pm
From: JonL

wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>
> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>
> ted

Sure it will...as soon as he gets his original Kenyan B/C from British
Intell in London.

Photo Documents Barry Soetoro: Indonesian Citizen, Muslim Religion

http://tinyurl.com/437ef6

The Great Obama Swindle of 2008

http://tinyurl.com/6f48l7

<snip>
In the litigation business, one quickly learns that if somebody has a
document that will be good for them, they can't wait to give it to you.
And if somebody has a document that will hurt them, they'll be tap
dancing faster than Richard Gere in Chicago to keep you from getting it.
Obama is tap dancing.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SpyWareGuard2008
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4c53a3642f39f068?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 28 2008 10:22 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

Pray that the FBI gets to you before I do

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Monday, December 29, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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