Frugal Living: Aug 10, 2010

Tuesday, August 10, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bicycling is only an important piece in the puzzle
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5c45dd286eec5188?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 11:40 pm
From: mattcaseymatt

On Aug 6, 10:29 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The puzzle has many pieces, and bicycling alone won't solve the
> problem. These are also important pieces: COMMUNITY, HOMELESSNESS,
> TRAFFIC TAMING, GATED COMMUNITIES, DRUGS...
>
> On Aug 5, 8:16 pm, Day Brown <dayhbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 08/02/2010 07:52 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of theMovement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > > I have a campaign also that puts together two important issues: BIKE
> > > LOCALLY, BUY LOCALLY. That should be the bottom line, but the sky is
> > > the limit.
>
> > > We are just waiting for a signal from above. Or is it coming from the
> > > bottom?
>
> > The elites want to concentrate power, the bottom wants to disperse it.
>
> > For instance, I and others have been posting against the war on drugs
> > for over 20 years, and only now is the number online large enuf to start
> > to break down and expose the group think of corporate mass media that
> > profits off the sensationalism because of the way it builds ratings and
> > thereby ad revenues.
>
> > But I dunno if we have another 20 years to straighten out the mess made
> > by the elites in so many other issues such as your point above on the
> > per capita carbon footprint of American life.
>
> > And as I'm sure you've seen here, you cant educate anyone; they either
> > already see what you do, or are in psychological denial designed by the
> > group think of mass media.
>
> > Dr, Freud noted how neurotic delusion cannot be dispelled by the
> > presentation of the facts. He also commented on the innovation neurotics
> > have in explaining to themselves why the think as they do despite the
> > facts, and closed saying that it takes trauma to wake a neurotic to reality.
>
> > And when a neurotic wakes up, he's angry. Which is why revolutions get
> > so violent. The question is whether the middle class unemployment,
> > housing foreclosure, bankruptcy and/or income rates will fall enuf to
> > stabilize the economy, or will TSHTF; and if so, when.
>
> > Is your 'bottom line' a base on which to build, or will the greed &
> > corruption of the elites cause the system to fall right thru it? inhttp://kunstler.com/blog/2010/08/skidding-toward-fall.htmlKunstler
> > says the latter. Course, he's been selling books for years saying so,
> > but he only hasta be right once.
>
> > Twards the end of Jared Diamond's "Collapse" he outlines the kind of
> > communities that recover fastest from the fall of empire. Major metro
> > areas depend too much on complex infrastructure support and wont make
> > it. Demagogues and streetgangs of multi-ethnic cities will make war.
>
> > Bike locally, buy locally, but also grow food and firewood locally. A
> > community that can be entirely supported by bikes and draft animals will
> > be far more stable and civilized.
>
> > So- do you know of any such? And if not, then what?
>
> Funny I just found out about this community, which may be considered a
> extreme solution, but which allows no motorized vehicles...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnHJ50cCIE8
>
> I wouldn't dare to propose such a radical thing, but rethinking the
> whole idea of "progress" is in order. Why SUVs outnumber bicycles by
> 20 to 1 at the local market? Isn't it crazy, stupid and blind? Why our
> sprawl keeps eating agricultural land while we import food from Mexico
> and China? What will happen when one of those countries goes into
> revolution?
>
> I love you choice of "alt.community" in the heading because I have
> something to say: WE HAVE KILLED THE COMMUNITY AND CREATED THE GATED
> COMMUNITY. All the friendliness of the communities of yesteryear have
> been turned into a JUNGLE : BICYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS ARE FAIR GAME,
> THE HOMELESS HAVE TAKEN OVER OUR BETTER PARKS AND ORNAMENTAL WATER
> FOUNTAINS.
>
> And then we wonder why our young turn to drugs. Hey, in this jungle
> you better get high above the grinding routine or make money to get
> the hell out.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> "Horse crap is better than muffler crap"
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE

You're nuts.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 6:18 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 9, 11:40 pm, mattcaseymatt <mattcaseym...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 6, 10:29 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The puzzle has many pieces, and bicycling alone won't solve the
> > problem. These are also important pieces: COMMUNITY, HOMELESSNESS,
> > TRAFFIC TAMING, GATED COMMUNITIES, DRUGS...
>
> > On Aug 5, 8:16 pm, Day Brown <dayhbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 08/02/2010 07:52 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of theMovement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > > > I have a campaign also that puts together two important issues: BIKE
> > > > LOCALLY, BUY LOCALLY. That should be the bottom line, but the sky is
> > > > the limit.
>
> > > > We are just waiting for a signal from above. Or is it coming from the
> > > > bottom?
>
> > > The elites want to concentrate power, the bottom wants to disperse it.
>
> > > For instance, I and others have been posting against the war on drugs
> > > for over 20 years, and only now is the number online large enuf to start
> > > to break down and expose the group think of corporate mass media that
> > > profits off the sensationalism because of the way it builds ratings and
> > > thereby ad revenues.
>
> > > But I dunno if we have another 20 years to straighten out the mess made
> > > by the elites in so many other issues such as your point above on the
> > > per capita carbon footprint of American life.
>
> > > And as I'm sure you've seen here, you cant educate anyone; they either
> > > already see what you do, or are in psychological denial designed by the
> > > group think of mass media.
>
> > > Dr, Freud noted how neurotic delusion cannot be dispelled by the
> > > presentation of the facts. He also commented on the innovation neurotics
> > > have in explaining to themselves why the think as they do despite the
> > > facts, and closed saying that it takes trauma to wake a neurotic to reality.
>
> > > And when a neurotic wakes up, he's angry. Which is why revolutions get
> > > so violent. The question is whether the middle class unemployment,
> > > housing foreclosure, bankruptcy and/or income rates will fall enuf to
> > > stabilize the economy, or will TSHTF; and if so, when.
>
> > > Is your 'bottom line' a base on which to build, or will the greed &
> > > corruption of the elites cause the system to fall right thru it? inhttp://kunstler.com/blog/2010/08/skidding-toward-fall.htmlKunstler
> > > says the latter. Course, he's been selling books for years saying so,
> > > but he only hasta be right once.
>
> > > Twards the end of Jared Diamond's "Collapse" he outlines the kind of
> > > communities that recover fastest from the fall of empire. Major metro
> > > areas depend too much on complex infrastructure support and wont make
> > > it. Demagogues and streetgangs of multi-ethnic cities will make war.
>
> > > Bike locally, buy locally, but also grow food and firewood locally. A
> > > community that can be entirely supported by bikes and draft animals will
> > > be far more stable and civilized.
>
> > > So- do you know of any such? And if not, then what?
>
> > Funny I just found out about this community, which may be considered a
> > extreme solution, but which allows no motorized vehicles...
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnHJ50cCIE8
>
> > I wouldn't dare to propose such a radical thing, but rethinking the
> > whole idea of "progress" is in order. Why SUVs outnumber bicycles by
> > 20 to 1 at the local market? Isn't it crazy, stupid and blind? Why our
> > sprawl keeps eating agricultural land while we import food from Mexico
> > and China? What will happen when one of those countries goes into
> > revolution?
>
> > I love you choice of "alt.community" in the heading because I have
> > something to say: WE HAVE KILLED THE COMMUNITY AND CREATED THE GATED
> > COMMUNITY. All the friendliness of the communities of yesteryear have
> > been turned into a JUNGLE : BICYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS ARE FAIR GAME,
> > THE HOMELESS HAVE TAKEN OVER OUR BETTER PARKS AND ORNAMENTAL WATER
> > FOUNTAINS.
>
> > And then we wonder why our young turn to drugs. Hey, in this jungle
> > you better get high above the grinding routine or make money to get
> > the hell out.
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > "Horse crap is better than muffler crap"
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE
>
> You're nuts.

Not as much as the society you seem to defend...

On Aug 10, 2:43 am, boltar2...@boltar.world wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:03:16 +0100
>
> Basil Jet <jo...@journeyflow.spamspam.com> wrote:
> >On 2010\08\09 17:22, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> >Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> >> On Aug 9, 8:49 am, Stephen Allcroft<stephenallcr...@lycos.co.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Some people do, therefore you qusetion is vitiated.
>
> >> Some .4% of Americans do compared to some 30% in the Netherlands.
>
> >> Something is missing, right?
>
> >Yeah, all the Americans have to do is level the Rockies and the
> >Appalachians to make America as bike-friendly as the Netherlands.
>
> I don't think anyone blames the americans for using their cars if they
> live miles from nowhere. But you don't need a gas guzzling 5.0 V8 SUV to
> bring the groceries back from the shops. It does seem that some yanks
> few profligate waste of resources as a human right and that is what pisses
> off many people.
>
> B2003

And at the same time they make it nearly a "suicide mission" to go and
get the groceries on your bike.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why people don't commute by bike?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5a940e0b0554395e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 6:07 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 9, 11:30 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <49e8c232-a8dd-4a53-a6f6-2c6fb6a9a...@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, at
> 14:18:14 on Mon, 9 Aug 2010, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of
> the Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> remarked:
>
> >I blame it more on SOCIAL ENGINEERING than social geography.
>
> >In this case TV is the vehicle for creating a certain consumption
> >pattern based on waste.
>
> Whether TV is to blame for the choice of vehicle or not, the suburban
> lifestyle in the USA is entirely unsuited to commuting by cycle, because
> the distances are too great.
>
> I have lived or worked in both USA suburbs and Dutch cities, and seen
> the differences at first hand - have you?
> --
> Roland Perry

I believe you. But greater distances are easily traveled with faster
bikes. Also they may be used in conjunction with public
transportation.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 6:10 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 9, 10:04 pm, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/9/2010 7:53 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 4:35 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 8/8/2010 9:38 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>
> >> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> >>> On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien<kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> >>>>> whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> >>>>> hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> >>>> OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> >>>> Ken
>
> >>> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> >>> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> >>> enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> >>> cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> >>> car)
>
> >>> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> >>> another job or move.
>
> >>> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> >>> maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> >>> Another reason which you will seldom find, but which is very real is:
> >>> "What will happen if I get hurt in a bicycle accident --even if I
> >>> fall-- and the medical system sucks and my family depends on me?"
>
> >>> A deeper reason is the average sheep is not prepared to challenge the
> >>> herd, which in turn receives the messages from the Media: "You need an
> >>> SUV to be important, etc."
>
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >>> "TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE"
>
> >>>http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE
>
> >> "It's too dangerous"
>
> >> Yes it is, where I live (semi-rural), my commute is mainly on 2 lane
> >> roads with no real shoulder and certainly no sidewalks. The speed limit
> >> on these roads is 45 MPH with traffic usually moving along at around 50
> >> MPH.
>
> >> "TOO FAR"
>
> >> Shockingly many areas don't have public transportation. Mine doesn't. I
> >> also like my job and have no interest in tying to find another job.
>
> >> "I WILL SWEAT"
>
> >> I've never worked for any place that has showers for it's employees.
>
> >> I choose to drive to work because. I enjoy it and it's much faster. For
> >> recreational use and exercise I'll ride a bike, but for practical
> >> purposes a car is the better alternative for me.
>
> > A good niche for the bicycle, even when not practical for commuting,
> > is going to the supermarket and errands around the community.
>
> > It's been estimated most trips take under 5 miles and that cars do low
> > mileage and high pollution when cold, which I can not confirm.
>
> Again depends on the location, the nearest supermarket around here is
> about 8 miles away with the most direct route which involved a four lane
> divided highway with a 55 MPH speed limit. The alternate route is mostly
> two lane roads but is about 4 miles longer.
>
> On the flip side, living in a rural area does have advantages for
> recreational biking as there are plenty of back roads to ride on with
> almost no traffic at all. You can ride for an hour and maybe encounter
> two cars. But again for practical purposes like going to the supermarket
> or going to the shops, or undertaking a journey where time is an issue,
> the car wins.

You know, there are such back countries roads near the Everglades I
wanted to go and some people say to avoid them... Drunk Mexicans in p/
u trucks are a menace. It could be Gringos but you get the point, that
you are on your own.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 6:23 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 10, 2:49 am, bod <bodro...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> boltar2...@boltar.world wrote:
> > On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:03:16 +0100
> > Basil Jet <jo...@journeyflow.spamspam.com> wrote:
> >> On 2010\08\09 17:22, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> >> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> >>> On Aug 9, 8:49 am, Stephen Allcroft<stephenallcr...@lycos.co.uk>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Some people do, therefore you qusetion is vitiated.
> >>> Some .4% of Americans do compared to some 30% in the Netherlands.
>
> >>> Something is missing, right?
> >> Yeah, all the Americans have to do is level the Rockies and the
> >> Appalachians to make America as bike-friendly as the Netherlands.
>
> > I don't think anyone blames the americans for using their cars if they
> > live miles from nowhere. But you don't need a gas guzzling 5.0 V8 SUV to
> > bring the groceries back from the shops. It does seem that some yanks
> > few profligate waste of resources as a human right and that is what pisses
> > off many people.
>
> > B2003
>
> >
>
> Yes, but many in this country drive their kids to school and do the
> shopping in Chelsea tractors.
>
> Bod

Few people have researched this area, but kids who are brought to
school in SUVs are bullied less than those driven in little Minis.
Actually they may be the bullies while the kids in Minis are the
brains.

We need to fund this research commonly observed among drivers of SUVs
and Minis.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 6:27 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 10, 2:58 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <i3r70b$g...@speranza.aioe.org>, at 09:43:39 on Tue, 10 Aug
> 2010, boltar2...@boltar.world remarked:
>
> >I don't think anyone blames the americans for using their cars if they
> >live miles from nowhere. But you don't need a gas guzzling 5.0 V8 SUV to
> >bring the groceries back from the shops.
>
> But you do need to own something that's also suitable for long trips on
> sometimes very poor roads. The attraction of the SUV concept is that
> it's a more suitable compromise than an even bigger traditional 4x4 or
> pickup truck.
> --
> Roland Perry

To be honest, you got a point there. You need SUVs in Africa. That's
what they were created for...

It was the mighty LandRover, not this Supersized Unnecessary
Vehicle...

http://www.blog.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/flying-hummer.jpg

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 10:29 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Aug 9, 5:21 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 9, 10:42 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 9:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> > Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > > > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > > > Ken
>
> > > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > > car)
>
> > > 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> > > another job or move.
>
> > > 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> > > maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> > You forgot one:
>
> > 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.
>
> Holland and Denmark don't have the best weather in the planet, but
> they still do it.
>
> But, you are right, it can be cited as excuse. Actually some people
> here cite potential floodings (?) as the reason to own an SUV.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I forgot one (kind of weather), too: Ice. When the cars are sliding
around
like two-ton billiard balls is no time to be on the roads atop a few
pounds
of bicycle.

Cindy Hamilton

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 11:09 am
From: Derek C

On Aug 10, 6:29 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 9, 5:21 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 10:42 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 8, 9:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> > > Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > > > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > > > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > > > > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > > > > Ken
>
> > > > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > > > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > > > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > > > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > > > car)
>
> > > > 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> > > > another job or move.
>
> > > > 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> > > > maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> > > You forgot one:
>
> > > 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.
>
> > Holland and Denmark don't have the best weather in the planet, but
> > they still do it.
>
> > But, you are right, it can be cited as excuse. Actually some people
> > here cite potential floodings (?) as the reason to own an SUV.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I forgot one (kind of weather), too: Ice. When the cars are sliding
> around
> like two-ton billiard balls is no time to be on the roads atop a few
> pounds
> of bicycle.
>
> Cindy Hamilton-

One of the problems in the UK is the poor state of our roads,
especially after this year's hard winter. There were potholes
everywhere, especially where commercial vehicles ran their nearside
wheels, which is about where you would like to cycle.

Derek C

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 1:14 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 10, 10:29 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 9, 5:21 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 10:42 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 8, 9:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> > > Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > > > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > > > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > > > > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > > > > Ken
>
> > > > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > > > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > > > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > > > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > > > car)
>
> > > > 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> > > > another job or move.
>
> > > > 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> > > > maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> > > You forgot one:
>
> > > 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.
>
> > Holland and Denmark don't have the best weather in the planet, but
> > they still do it.
>
> > But, you are right, it can be cited as excuse. Actually some people
> > here cite potential floodings (?) as the reason to own an SUV.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I forgot one (kind of weather), too: Ice. When the cars are sliding
> around
> like two-ton billiard balls is no time to be on the roads atop a few
> pounds
> of bicycle.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

I think some knee pads can help. But hey, public transportation is out
there too.

Here the heat can be extreme for many people, but cycling is better
than walking. You get some breeze at least.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 1:17 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 10, 11:09 am, Derek C <del.copel...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 6:29 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 5:21 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> > Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 9, 10:42 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 8, 9:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> > > > Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > > > > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > > > > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > > > > > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > > > > > Ken
>
> > > > > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > > > > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > > > > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > > > > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > > > > car)
>
> > > > > 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> > > > > another job or move.
>
> > > > > 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> > > > > maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> > > > You forgot one:
>
> > > > 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.
>
> > > Holland and Denmark don't have the best weather in the planet, but
> > > they still do it.
>
> > > But, you are right, it can be cited as excuse. Actually some people
> > > here cite potential floodings (?) as the reason to own an SUV.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I forgot one (kind of weather), too: Ice. When the cars are sliding
> > around
> > like two-ton billiard balls is no time to be on the roads atop a few
> > pounds
> > of bicycle.
>
> > Cindy Hamilton-
>
> One of the problems in the UK is the poor state of our roads,
> especially after this year's hard winter. There were potholes
> everywhere, especially where commercial vehicles ran their nearside
> wheels, which is about where you would like to cycle.
>
> Derek C

I did 2.3 miles today on 16" Dahon. No big deal, but just for the
record. On main road!

I wore the bright vest with no shirt to help beat the heat.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple hack to get $3000 to your home
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5a52f8b923c84ba8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 8:58 am
From: Brazil Acctressess

Simple hack to get $3000 to your home at http://2050videos.co.cc

Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an
image. in that website on Right Side below search box, click
on image and enter your name and address where you want to
receive your cheque.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Climate Change
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/644bf640f475d0c1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 9:15 am
From: despen@verizon.net

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:

> On 08/09/10 09:24, despen@verizon.net wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 08/08/10 06:57, despen@verizon.net wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Analyze the data yourself. Form your own conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> "Analying the data" consists of taking many readings and comparing
>>>> the data to the output of very sophisticated computer models.
>>>>
>>>> I've yet to see ONE critic even claim that they've developed a
>>>> computer model, found a problem with the existing computer models,
>>>> or that they have their own readings.
>>>>
>>>> Your taunt about forming your own conclusions reveals a striking
>>>> ignorance about the subject.
>>>
>>> No, it reveals that I am intimately acquainted with someone who HAS
>>> analyzed the data and found it wanting.
>>
>> Well?
>>
>> Are we just supposed to take your word for it?
>
> Believe what you will. At least I have some rationality behind my belief.

All that you've revealed is belief.

>>> And fix your spellchecker.
>>
>> Aggh! It was turned off.
>
> Even worse -- you actually need one :-(

Saw the error after hitting send.

Sue me.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What personal information does a vendor who takes your CC info have
access to?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/02edcaffd0a04ad0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 10:28 am
From: Al

On Aug 10, 2:12 am, Doc <docsavag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If someone takes your credit/debit card info, does that potentially
> give them access to info like your date of birth?

How would they know anything other than your CC number and name? Some
stores are not even asking for a signature any more.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 2:46 pm
From: gordon@hammy.burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)

>> If someone takes your credit/debit card info, does that potentially
>> give them access to info like your date of birth?

Yes, if they also ask for your driver's license, which is not uncommon.

Credit card verification systems are set up to *verify* things like
your address, so they don't get your address, but if the vendor
guesses it (or asks the cardholder for it), he can be told whether
it's wrong. (Typically it's mail-order companies like Amazon that
would verify whether the shipping address matches the card address).

The first digits of your card number (4, typically) give the name
of your bank (typically at a national level, so they might know
"Bank of America" but they wouldn't know which branch, from which
they might guess your approximate address).

>How would they know anything other than your CC number and name? Some
>stores are not even asking for a signature any more.

Some banks have really lousy online security, and if the store (or
store clerk) is also willing to act like a thief and pretend to be
the cardholder, they might manage to get additional information.
(The real cardholder may be alerted of funny business going on
also.) Usually, they'd have to know something else, like the mother's
maiden name or the last 4 digits of the SSN to set up an online
account, or to invoke the "lost password" function. Once into
online banking, sometimes the "edit your personal info" section
reveals too much. A lot of this info would already be available
to a thief who stole your whole wallet. Your driver's license
probably has your DOB and address on it, and it's not uncommon for
store clerks to ask for that.

If a bank requires the date of birth to invoke the "lost password"
function, a few idiot banks might allow an unlimited number of
tries, *and* tell you if it's wrong, so you can keep guessing until
you get it right.

Overall, I think the biggest practical risk from a person to whom
you give your CC info is that they'll over- or double-charge your
card or spit in your food.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I GOT $2000 FROM PAYPAL .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2e95bf9d0a006a70?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 10:30 am
From: Al

On Aug 9, 10:11 am, paypal cash <m.chinnamna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I GOT $2000 FROM PAYPAL At http://2050videos.co.cc
>
> i have hidden the PayPal Form link in an image. in that website On
> Top Side Above search box , click on image and enter your PayPal id
> And Your name.

Your deal sucks. The poster "brazil" is offering $3,000. You better up
the ante buster.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why is Costco WHOLESALE sometimes more expensive then RETAIL stores?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/30a4faf096175887?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 12:13 pm
From: "Annie Woughman"

You have to price check no matter where you shop. I buy certain things at
Costco, like some of my prescriptions are cheaper there by not using my
insurance and buying in quantities of 100. I also buy some OTC medications
like Ibuprofen. About the only food items I will buy at Costco are their
frozen salmon patties, chicken breasts, green beans, strawberries and
blueberries (all frozen). All the other food items come in too large of a
package and I can get the same price at Food-4-Less by buying a single item
at a time, instead of the banded together cans or bottles at Costco. I have
purchased several big ticket electronic items there, but now I will have to
get a fabulous deal to buy any big ticket item there because I found that
the American Express extended warranty is run by a bunch of morons and since
that is the only card they take, I will buy my big ticket electronics from
stores that will take VISA. The extended warranty from VISA is MUCH easier
to file and get paid for a claim.

"www.Queensbridge.us" <NOTvalid@Queensbridge.us> wrote in message
news:13ee8266-5b2c-4a49-85b8-94d7e23f5b7a@v41g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> Bought some mangoes in Jackson Height Queens.
>
> Same brand is more then DOUBLE the price if you buy them Costco
> "wholesale"!
>
> How come?
>
> I noticed other things that the wholesale price at Costco is more
> expensive then retail stores.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Love
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ef5006a4f6d35244?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 4:03 pm
From: Millhaven

On Aug 6, 11:51 am, Rachel Williams <rachel_psychi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> If your tired of playing the dating game and looking for real love and
> real commitment. Please, let me give you guidance.Even though true
> love is one of our deepest spiritual needs, it seems elusive even
> unattainable at times. So, why not get the answers to your questions
> right now?
>
> www.psychicandspirtualadvisorrachel.com
>
> Rachel 714-414-9847

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXcuG28qHsA

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Which is more deadly, accidents or terrorism?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/05c12d4997ca98c1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 5:22 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

8,000/1 Killed in a Road Accident
Every year 1,500 car drivers and adult passengers die in road smashes,
while around 1,000 pedestrians and cyclists die in road accidents.
Worldwide, over 3,000 people are killed in road crashes daily.

9,300,000/1 Dying in Terrorist Attack
In 2005 there were 651 significant international terrorist attacks
worldwide, killing nearly 2,000 people.

http://www.waystodie.350.com/todie2.htm

Bicycle safety investment: Nearly nothing. Traffic safety: Nearly at
the bottom of the priorities.

Cost of the two wars: 1 trillion dollars. Something doesn't add up
here, right? (besides the number of 1,500 killed a year).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"There are many dangers in the jungle, but some are preventable"

COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 11:13 pm
From: raamman

On Aug 10, 8:22 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 8,000/1 Killed in a Road Accident
> Every year 1,500 car drivers and adult passengers die in road smashes,
> while around 1,000 pedestrians and cyclists die in road accidents.
> Worldwide, over 3,000 people are killed in road crashes daily.
>
> 9,300,000/1 Dying in Terrorist Attack
> In 2005 there were 651 significant international terrorist attacks
> worldwide, killing nearly 2,000 people.
>
> http://www.waystodie.350.com/todie2.htm
>
> Bicycle safety investment: Nearly nothing. Traffic safety: Nearly at
> the bottom of the priorities.
>
> Cost of the two wars: 1 trillion dollars. Something doesn't add up
> here, right? (besides the number of 1,500 killed a year).
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> "There are many dangers in the jungle, but some are preventable"
>
> COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

your definition of terrorism seems weak

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 11:40 pm
From: Doug

On 11 Aug, 07:13, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 8:22 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > 8,000/1 Killed in a Road Accident
> > Every year 1,500 car drivers and adult passengers die in road smashes,
> > while around 1,000 pedestrians and cyclists die in road accidents.
> > Worldwide, over 3,000 people are killed in road crashes daily.
>
> > 9,300,000/1 Dying in Terrorist Attack
> > In 2005 there were 651 significant international terrorist attacks
> > worldwide, killing nearly 2,000 people.
>
> >http://www.waystodie.350.com/todie2.htm
>
> > Bicycle safety investment: Nearly nothing. Traffic safety: Nearly at
> > the bottom of the priorities.
>
> > Cost of the two wars: 1 trillion dollars. Something doesn't add up
> > here, right? (besides the number of 1,500 killed a year).
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > "There are many dangers in the jungle, but some are preventable"
>
> > COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1
>
> your definition of terrorism seems weak
>
The government needs the threat of terrorism in order to maintain its
control over us. See Orwell's '1984'. Without terrorism there would be
little to fear and the government could not be perceived as protecting
the People by the use of measures which would otherwise seem
oppressive but in reality are all about control and criminalisation.

Of course, cyclists do not figure in this at all.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
One man's democracy is another man's Police State.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 11:46 pm
From: Derek C

On Aug 11, 7:13 am, raamman <raam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 8:22 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > 8,000/1 Killed in a Road Accident
> > Every year 1,500 car drivers and adult passengers die in road smashes,
> > while around 1,000 pedestrians and cyclists die in road accidents.
> > Worldwide, over 3,000 people are killed in road crashes daily.
>
> > 9,300,000/1 Dying in Terrorist Attack
> > In 2005 there were 651 significant international terrorist attacks
> > worldwide, killing nearly 2,000 people.
>
> >http://www.waystodie.350.com/todie2.htm
>
> > Bicycle safety investment: Nearly nothing. Traffic safety: Nearly at
> > the bottom of the priorities.
>
> > Cost of the two wars: 1 trillion dollars. Something doesn't add up
> > here, right? (besides the number of 1,500 killed a year).
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > "There are many dangers in the jungle, but some are preventable"
>
> > COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1
>
> your definition of terrorism seems weak- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It is estimated that over a million people have died directly or
indirectly as a result of the US led invasions of Iraq and
Afghanistan, most of them non-combatants. Several thousand coalition
troops have been killed.

Far from winning the hearts and minds of the native populations and
defeating terrorism, these unsanctioned invasions have only spurned
far more terrorists, including some citizens from the coalition
countries who can see how unfair the situation is. The wars have
pretty much bankrupted the US and UK, who both now have huge National
debts.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you have a problem with bullies? Castrate them!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9f3754515e95c8e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 9:14 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

'The system has left all road users, but most of all cyclists and
pedestrians, feeling powerless against bullies. We can't chase them
down, but even when we do get a plate number, we're usually told, "if
an officer didn't see it, there's nothing we can do…" I can't tell you
how many times I've had people tell me about incidents which should
have involved police intervention but didn't because cyclists didn't
even bother to call them. That's understandable. Most of us do feel
abandoned by the system.'

http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/08/09/bullying-how-do-we-stop-it/

Funny, I gave this answer today:

On Aug 10, 12:05 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Aug 9, 7:46 pm, JB <briscoe.jea...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Does love conquer all? I was thinking about this the things that you
> > believe in and the things that go against you. That the love in ones
> > heart ,does it make you turn the other cheek, or helps you go above
> > the ways of others and to show this love is an example. To love all.

> LL: First you have to define what you mean by "love."

> ***********************

It also depends what she means by "all." A cow is easy to milk.

A bull can be tamed by castration. ;)

***

In other words, metaphorically speaking, we should take the balls off
the bull to tame him, which translates into "we should go and
prosecute the bullies based on evidence from cyclists and
pedestrians."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"We should set up a system of reward and punishment with the beasts"

http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GERMANY GIRLS SECRET SEX VIDEOS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/51e7c4fa4d90064d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 10:07 pm
From: SUKANYA

GERMANY GIRLS SECRET SEX VIDEOS At http://simpletoget.co.cc

Due to high sex content, i have hidden the videos in an image.in that
website on right side below search box click on image and watch
videos in all angles.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is the exact tap & die size for a USA garden hose thread (it's not
NH)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b45307cfc57adb86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 10:23 pm
From: Terra Arcane

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 05:07:34 +0000 (UTC), Brent wrote:
> If that's right, the tap and die size for GHT would be:
> O.D. 1.0625 at 11.5 threads per inch

Wikipedia concurs at an outside diameter of 1.0625 inches and a pitch of
11.5 tpi ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hose ) but
rec.crafts.metalworking say it's O.D. is 1.031. and has 11.5 TPI.

Early in April of 2004, the folks at rec.crafts.metalworking had some
information but not enough (http://tinyurl.com/az4p9). They concluded
nobody makes taps and dies for garden hose thread, I believe.

"A garden hose connector has a nominal size designation of 1 inch, the
actual O.D. is 1.031. and has 11.5 TPI. 1.031 is real close to the O.D.
of 3/4 inch pipe (1.050) but 3/4 inch pipe is threaded at 14 TPI. 1-inch
pipe has an O.D. of 1.315. and has 11.5 TPI. So it looks like straight or
tapered isn't the problem, no pipe die is near the correct size."

and

"Hose coupling threads do not match any standard NPS or NPT thread.
The pitch diameter (0.9875"-1.0060") is almost the same as 3/4"-NPS
(0.9820"-0.9873"), but the 11.5 TPI pitch matches 1"-NPS, not
3/4"-NPS (14 TPI)."

and

"The thread spec. for garden hose fittings is ANSI/ASME B1.20.7 (see
Machinery's Handbook) and the designation is NHR" 1-800-993-4353 (Field
Tool Supply).

Those at misc.consumers.frugal-living found a freely available tap and die
set but I can't seem to find their link anymore.
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/metalworking/11243/Tap-Die-for-hose-threads

"If you mean garden hose, the proper designations are:

.75-11.5NH (cut, formed, or rolled)
.75-11.5NHR (thin wall formed)

However, I don't see how you could make these with just a tap or die,
as they involve a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle,
not just threads. Google ".75-11.5NH tap die" = 0 hits."

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 10 2010 10:25 pm
From: Orak Listalavostok

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:23:13 -0700, Terra Arcane wrote:
> However, I don't see how you could make these with just a tap or die,
> as they involve a pilot, a relief, and a different lead-in thread angle,
> not just threads. Google ".75-11.5NH tap die" = 0 hits."

http://www.diy-forum.net/re-garden-hose-end-re-thread-die-t120356.html

"As noted, you're probably not going to find a die or tap for a garden
hose thread. The problem is, the male ends aren't cut threads anyway
on anything except perhaps the brass NPT/hose adapters--they're formed.
The female ends are so shallow that you would need a bottom tap and
probably couldn't reach but a portion of the first thread, anyway, even
if you had one."

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 20 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* OT: Climate Change - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/644bf640f475d0c1?hl=en
* Why people don't commute by bike? - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5a940e0b0554395e?hl=en
* Does TAKING THE LANE slow down traffic? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/53572018da3c57f0?hl=en
* Why is Costco WHOLESALE sometimes more expensive then RETAIL stores? - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/30a4faf096175887?hl=en
* videoshot photos - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/836f3f94688e21f8?hl=en
* What personal information does a vendor who takes your CC info have access
to? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/02edcaffd0a04ad0?hl=en
* Bicycling is only an important piece in the puzzle - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5c45dd286eec5188?hl=en

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 12:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Billy wrote:
> In article <slrni5ut2d.fnu.don@manx.misty.com>,
> don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <wildbilly-6915B0.12330708082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
>> Billy wrote in part:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <f96596d6-50fc-42af-ab4d-8089eb87d112@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Chris <chris.linthompson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 8, 1:23 pm, Bill who putters <b2forewag...@snip.net> wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <b2forewagner-162A99.13113708082...@news.supernews.com>, Bill who
>>>>> putters <b2forewag...@snip.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <wildbilly-74E3AC.09590308082...@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
>>>>>> Billy <wildbi...@withouta.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Anecdotally, I've been taking 1 g of vitamin C/day since the
>>>>>>> early 70s
>>>>>>> and 6 g/day if I have a cold (which is rare).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt there is any silver bullet for either colds, or cancer
>>>>>>> (The latter seems to be part of "metabolic syndrome". Staying
>>>>>>> away from polyunsaturated oils, would probably help.).
>>
>> I heard that the bad ones are saturated ones and ones with all
>> "unsaturations" (double bonds) being of "trans" alignment.
>>
>> That means the "bad ones" are coconut and palm oil, cocoa butter,
>> fats of warm blooded animals, and *partially hydrogenated*
>> polyunsaturated
>> fats (partially hydrogenated typically-extratropical vegetable oils).
>>
>> Unhydrogenated polyunsaturated fats have a high rate of sounding
>> to me to be "OK, or at least OK as far as fat intake goes".
>>
>> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
>
> Yes, this is the debate that Ansel Keys started with his claim that
> saturated fat causes cholesterol, which causes "cadiovascular
> disease". The problem appears when you understand that Ansel Keys
> cherry picked his information, Dwight Eisenhower died of a heart
> attack even though he was on a low fat diet, and that many healthy
> cultures survived on saturated fats, and none on polyunsatuated fats.

That last is a bare faced lie, most obviously with mediteranean cultures.

> The gist is that agriculture, eating grains (carbohydrates), is the
> biggest change in the human diet in the last 2,000,000 years, and
> most of the medical problems of western culture stem from insulin
> rushes caused by the sugar, refined, and in the starches of grains.

Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> The definitive book is "Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and
> the Controversial Science of Diet and Health" (Vintage) by Gary Taubes
> <http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/1400033
> 462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281329439&sr=1-1>

Just because someone claims something doesnt make it gospel.

> p. 15
> The incidence and severity atherosclerosis are not directly
> affected by the level of cholesterol in the blood serum per se.

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> p. 96
> White flour's low protein, vitamins, and mineral content made it
> "less liable than whole meal flour to infestations by beetles and the
> depredations of rodents", as Sir Stanley Davidson and Reginald
> Passmore observed in their textbook Human Nutrition and Dietetics
> (1963).

Irrelevant to what is better human health wise.

> p.194
> Anything that raises blood sugar - in particular, the consumption
> of refined and easily digestible carbohydrates - will increase the
> generation of oxidants and free radicals;

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> it will increase the rate of oxidative stress and glycation,and the
> formation and accumulation of advanced glycation end products.

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> This means that anything that raises blood sugar, by the logic of the carbohydrate
> hypothesis, will lead to more atherosclerosis and heart disease, more vascular disorders,
> and a pace of accelerated degeneration, even in those of us who never become diabetic.

Easy to claim. Pity he cant actually substantiate that claim with any rigorous science.

> -----

> Much easier to read is
> "The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability" by Lierre Keith
> <http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_19?url=search-alias%3Dstripbook
> s&field-keywords=the+vegetarian+myth+by+lierre+keith&sprefix=The+Vegetari
> an+Myth&ih=16_1_1_0_0_0_0_0_0_2.144_306&fsc=18>

Just because someone claims something doesnt make it gospel.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 12:42 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Don Klipstein wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Don Klipstein wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Billy wrote
>>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Billy wrote
>>>>>>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Billy wrote

>>>>>>>>> Three independent reviews into the affair were initiated in
>>>>>>>>> the UK, two of which were concluded by the end of March 2010,
>>>>>>>>> with the remaining review releasing its findings on 7 July.

>>>>>>>>> The scientific consensus that "global warming is happening and
>>>>>>>>> that it is induced by human activity" was found unchallenged
>>>>>>>>> by the emails[12] and there was "no evidence of any deliberate
>>>>>>>>> scientific malpractice in any of the work of the Climatic Research Unit."

>>>>>>>> And Bill Clinton didn't have sex with that woman: Monica Lewinsky.

>>>>>>> Actually, the judge said he could use the dictionary
>>>>>>> definition, which was vaginal, so TECHNICALLY
>>>>>>> he didn't have sex with that woman.

>>>>>>> But what does that have to do with "Global Warming", or do you
>>>>>>> just like to talk about oral sex? Do you have something to say?
>>>>>>> Spit it out.

>>>>>> That governments and governmental leaders will say what they need
>>>>>> to say regardless of the truth, and that you can find
>>>>>> "independent reviewers" to arrive at whatever conclusion you
>>>>>> want -- or can afford.

>>>>>> Where did they find an "independent review" panel composed of
>>>>>> persons who (a) can evaluate the data; (b) can evaluate the
>>>>>> language used;
>>>>>> and (c) have no connection one way or the other with the global
>>>>>> warming controversy?

>>>>>> The globe gets warmer and cooler and has done so for quite a long
>>>>>> time. I think it would be more sensible to try to figure out how
>>>>>> to deal with change rather than engage in the rather fruitless
>>>>>> undertaking of trying to stop it.

>>>>>> Analyze the data yourself. Form your own conclusion.

>>>>> Well, Bev, we can all agree that CO2 levels are going up, right?

>>>> Yes, but they were MUCH higher in the distant past.

>>> Mostly such as times when Greenland and Antarctica lacked thick ice
>>> sheets, and sea level was a couple hundred meters higher than it is now.

That wasnt due to the higher CO2 levels tho.

>> Yes, but the earth clearly managed fine with those much higher CO2 levels.

> Yes, this planet has managed to cope with events that fell short of outright blowing it up.

In fact it did a hell of a lot better vegetation wise in those times.

> As for a recently-dominating species that implemented
> industrialization that is mostly in the past couple centuries of a
> 4-plus billion year old planet known to harbor life forms including
> intelligent ones, I see a different problem: Avoid changing sea
> level by so much as 1 meter from what industrial coastal cities are
> accustomed to.

You havent established that there will be any man made sea level change of anything like that.

And Holland manages to handle sea levels like that anyway.

>>>>> And we can all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, right?

>>>> Doesnt mean that that is necessarily a bad thing.

>>> <SNIP issues of ocean pH, how many billions of people this planet
>>> is carrying or will carry successfully or otherwise, whatever else>

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 1:31 pm
From: Higgs Boson

On Aug 8, 10:09 pm, "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given> wrote:
> "Slim" <ric.dun...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:18:45 -0700 (PDT), Chris
> > <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>There is no real scientific controversy about anthropogenic global
> >>climate change. The "scientists" who deny it are pretty much all
> >>shills for energy companies like Exxon-Mobil.
>
> > Not so.......over 31000 scientists disagree.
>
> >http://www.petitionproject.org/purpose_of_petition.php
>
> And you've been caught believing in rubbish. Use google and you'll find out
> that the 'petition project' is considered to be crud.

I wonder if he saw my post about the Marshall Institute, a shill for
the extractive industries and other corporate criminals.
They field whore *scientists who are well paid to instill doubt into
the public mind about global warming. They did this successfully
also about DDT, acid rain, the danger of tobacco, and other matters of
public policy.

*apologies to honest sex workers.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 3:00 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 08/09/10 09:24, despen@verizon.net wrote:

> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 08/08/10 06:57, despen@verizon.net wrote:
>>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Analyze the data yourself. Form your own conclusion.
>>>
>>> "Analying the data" consists of taking many readings and comparing
>>> the data to the output of very sophisticated computer models.
>>>
>>> I've yet to see ONE critic even claim that they've developed a
>>> computer model, found a problem with the existing computer models,
>>> or that they have their own readings.
>>>
>>> Your taunt about forming your own conclusions reveals a striking
>>> ignorance about the subject.
>>
>> No, it reveals that I am intimately acquainted with someone who HAS
>> analyzed the data and found it wanting.
>
> Well?
>
> Are we just supposed to take your word for it?

Believe what you will. At least I have some rationality behind my belief.

>> And fix your spellchecker.
>
> Aggh! It was turned off.

Even worse -- you actually need one :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
*****************************************************************
"...and then I'll become a veterinarian because I love children."
-- Julie Brown

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 5:06 pm
From: "FarmI"

"The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
> On 08/09/10 09:24, despen@verizon.net wrote:
>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 08/08/10 06:57, despen@verizon.net wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Analyze the data yourself. Form your own conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> "Analying the data" consists of taking many readings and comparing
>>>> the data to the output of very sophisticated computer models.
>>>>
>>>> I've yet to see ONE critic even claim that they've developed a
>>>> computer model, found a problem with the existing computer models,
>>>> or that they have their own readings.
>>>>
>>>> Your taunt about forming your own conclusions reveals a striking
>>>> ignorance about the subject.
>>>
>>> No, it reveals that I am intimately acquainted with someone who HAS
>>> analyzed the data and found it wanting.
>>
>> Well?
>>
>> Are we just supposed to take your word for it?
>
> Believe what you will. At least I have some rationality behind my belief.

What rot. You believe what else tells you. And yet you have tell David
(who many of us would know has done a lot of reading on this very subject)
to analyse the data. I'm sure I'm ot the only one who finds that highly
amusing.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 5:33 pm
From: "David Hare-Scott"

The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> And fix your spellchecker.
>>
>> Aggh! It was turned off.
>
> Even worse -- you actually need one :-(

Oh no the dreaded rebuttal by spelling error! Not Once But Twice! Can't
top that, you win the day, the glaciers are freezing.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:27 pm
From: Billy

In article <b2forewagner-D86A1D.13485409082010@news.supernews.com>,
Bill who putters <b2forewagner@snip.net> wrote:

> In article
> <wildbilly-A405B6.10093109082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> Billy <wildbilly@withouta.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <b2forewagner-3A31E9.13003809082010@news.supernews.com>,
> > Bill who putters <b2forewagner@snip.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <wildbilly-A3F71F.09415009082010@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,
> > > Billy <wildbilly@withouta.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you had any sense, you would realize that these books are available
> > > > FREE from your local library.
> > > >
> > > > I think I've answered all the questions from you as I care to.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
> > >
> > > Free books are wonderful but some like Taubes and other's of similar
> > > import require me to write all over them. I can only recall 5% of what
> > > I read on a good day.
> > > On the other hand I have an extensive library that no looks at but me.
> > > Rock and A hard place comes to mind. Wonder if my books are doomed to a
> > > yard sale...perhaps giving them away to a library now is intelligent.
> > > But who wants books from 1950 ?
> >
> > Everything has a lifetime. Gotta get outta the way for the new or
> > everything would come to a stop.
>
> Some old stuff resonates with value and potential for growth. I think
> of traditional slash and burn and our interest in charcoal. Also
> wonder if the old was side stepped as it was not a money maker.
>
> Anyway. I do the short form here is the long. Old fart stuff usually.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUQSQi5xFSM&NR=1

I really don't have time for all the stuff you find for us to watch, but
this is good ;O)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/07/201072816515308172.html

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 2:21 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Aug 9, 10:42 am, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 8, 9:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien <kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> > > > whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> > > > hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> > > OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> > > Ken
>
> > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > car)
>
> > 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> > another job or move.
>
> > 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> > maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> You forgot one:
>
> 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.

Holland and Denmark don't have the best weather in the planet, but
they still do it.

But, you are right, it can be cited as excuse. Actually some people
here cite potential floodings (?) as the reason to own an SUV.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 2:57 pm
From: Tony Raven

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>>
>> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's
>> strong enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus
>> rendering cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who
>> can't afford a car)
>>
>> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
>> another job or move.
>>
>> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
>> maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
>
> You forgot one:
>
> 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.

Actually not really any of the above. Two good bits of research on the
reasons people don't cycle are:

http://tinyurl.com/2veyy36
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tra.2006.09.002

Tony

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 3:47 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 9, 2:57 pm, Tony Raven <tra...@gotadsl.co.uk> wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> >> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> >> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's
> >> strong enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus
> >> rendering cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who
> >> can't afford a car)
>
> >> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> >> another job or move.
>
> >> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> >> maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> > You forgot one:
>
> > 4. WEATHER: Snow. Slush. Sub-zero temperatures.
>
> Actually not really any of the above. Two good bits of research on the
> reasons people don't cycle are:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2veyy36http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tra.2006.09.002
>
> Tony

It actually confirms what I say: FEAR.

Let me put this way. You enter a jungle, and the lion (except that
lions do not live in jungles) can prey on many animals other than you,
but he roars and you start to tremble. Kind of natural, isn't it? You
are not a hunter, you are not looking to struggle and conquer your
fears. You are in it for the fun of it or whatever peaceful pursuit.

Now this lion is not tamed in any way and it's allowed to run wild,
sometimes "disappearing" from the scene after striking, so nobody
knows what hit you. There's a Spanish terror movie about this creature
of the jungle, which was assumed to be a girl gone wild. There's
really panic among seasoned hunters. In the end it wasn't the girl but
another hunter.

These SUVs sport a ROARING MOTOR THAT JARS YOUR CONVICTIONS AND
DETERMINATION, until you decide it's time to quit. SOLUTION?

Put as much as space as possible between you and the beast.

Probably the conditions in Europe are somewhat better because:

1- You use smaller cars

2- You are better trained

3- Fewer road rage

4- More conscience of "sharing"

5- You have Universal Healthcare

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 4:35 pm
From: Forrest Hodge

On 8/8/2010 9:38 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien<kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>> I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
>>> whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
>>> hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>>
>> OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>>
>> Ken
>
> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> car)
>
> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> another job or move.
>
> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> Another reason which you will seldom find, but which is very real is:
> "What will happen if I get hurt in a bicycle accident --even if I
> fall-- and the medical system sucks and my family depends on me?"
>
> A deeper reason is the average sheep is not prepared to challenge the
> herd, which in turn receives the messages from the Media: "You need an
> SUV to be important, etc."
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE"
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE

"It's too dangerous"

Yes it is, where I live (semi-rural), my commute is mainly on 2 lane
roads with no real shoulder and certainly no sidewalks. The speed limit
on these roads is 45 MPH with traffic usually moving along at around 50
MPH.

"TOO FAR"

Shockingly many areas don't have public transportation. Mine doesn't. I
also like my job and have no interest in tying to find another job.

"I WILL SWEAT"

I've never worked for any place that has showers for it's employees.

I choose to drive to work because. I enjoy it and it's much faster. For
recreational use and exercise I'll ride a bike, but for practical
purposes a car is the better alternative for me.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 4:53 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 9, 4:35 pm, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/8/2010 9:38 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>
>
>
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien<kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
> >>> whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
> >>> hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>
> >> OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>
> >> Ken
>
> > Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>
> > 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
> > enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
> > cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
> > car)
>
> > 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
> > another job or move.
>
> > 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
> > maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>
> > Another reason which you will seldom find, but which is very real is:
> > "What will happen if I get hurt in a bicycle accident --even if I
> > fall-- and the medical system sucks and my family depends on me?"
>
> > A deeper reason is the average sheep is not prepared to challenge the
> > herd, which in turn receives the messages from the Media: "You need an
> > SUV to be important, etc."
>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > "TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE"
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE
>
> "It's too dangerous"
>
> Yes it is, where I live (semi-rural), my commute is mainly on 2 lane
> roads with no real shoulder and certainly no sidewalks. The speed limit
> on these roads is 45 MPH with traffic usually moving along at around 50
> MPH.
>
> "TOO FAR"
>
> Shockingly many areas don't have public transportation. Mine doesn't. I
> also like my job and have no interest in tying to find another job.
>
> "I WILL SWEAT"
>
> I've never worked for any place that has showers for it's employees.
>
> I choose to drive to work because. I enjoy it and it's much faster. For
> recreational use and exercise I'll ride a bike, but for practical
> purposes a car is the better alternative for me.

A good niche for the bicycle, even when not practical for commuting,
is going to the supermarket and errands around the community.

It's been estimated most trips take under 5 miles and that cars do low
mileage and high pollution when cold, which I can not confirm.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 10:04 pm
From: Forrest Hodge

On 8/9/2010 7:53 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories
wrote:
> On Aug 9, 4:35 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 8/8/2010 9:38 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>>
>>
>>
>> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>>> On Aug 5, 7:59 am, Kenneth O'Brien<kob22...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I do not care about training cyclists looking for fun, performance or
>>>>> whatever on a bike. They don't care about others either. That's a
>>>>> hobby. The revolution is for the SUB (Sport Utility Bike)
>>
>>>> OK. But the commuting share isn't at whatever it is because 1 minus that number fraction of the public wouldn't DARE ride their bike on the road. There is a million and one things that add up to commute share.
>>
>>>> Ken
>>
>>> Go around, and the reasons you will most likely find are:
>>
>>> 1- It's too dangerous: FEAR (it may be a perception, but it's strong
>>> enough to send most cyclists onto the sidewalks, thus rendering
>>> cycling ineffective except for immigrant workers who can't afford a
>>> car)
>>
>>> 2- TOO FAR: You may combine it with public transportation or get
>>> another job or move.
>>
>>> 3- I WILL SWEAT: True, but then showers at work may be provided. Or
>>> maybe you sweat at work anyway.
>>
>>> Another reason which you will seldom find, but which is very real is:
>>> "What will happen if I get hurt in a bicycle accident --even if I
>>> fall-- and the medical system sucks and my family depends on me?"
>>
>>> A deeper reason is the average sheep is not prepared to challenge the
>>> herd, which in turn receives the messages from the Media: "You need an
>>> SUV to be important, etc."
>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> "TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE, TAKE THE LANE"
>>
>>> http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE
>>
>> "It's too dangerous"
>>
>> Yes it is, where I live (semi-rural), my commute is mainly on 2 lane
>> roads with no real shoulder and certainly no sidewalks. The speed limit
>> on these roads is 45 MPH with traffic usually moving along at around 50
>> MPH.
>>
>> "TOO FAR"
>>
>> Shockingly many areas don't have public transportation. Mine doesn't. I
>> also like my job and have no interest in tying to find another job.
>>
>> "I WILL SWEAT"
>>
>> I've never worked for any place that has showers for it's employees.
>>
>> I choose to drive to work because. I enjoy it and it's much faster. For
>> recreational use and exercise I'll ride a bike, but for practical
>> purposes a car is the better alternative for me.
>
> A good niche for the bicycle, even when not practical for commuting,
> is going to the supermarket and errands around the community.
>
> It's been estimated most trips take under 5 miles and that cars do low
> mileage and high pollution when cold, which I can not confirm.

Again depends on the location, the nearest supermarket around here is
about 8 miles away with the most direct route which involved a four lane
divided highway with a 55 MPH speed limit. The alternate route is mostly
two lane roads but is about 4 miles longer.

On the flip side, living in a rural area does have advantages for
recreational biking as there are plenty of back roads to ride on with
almost no traffic at all. You can ride for an hour and maybe encounter
two cars. But again for practical purposes like going to the supermarket
or going to the shops, or undertaking a journey where time is an issue,
the car wins.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does TAKING THE LANE slow down traffic?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/53572018da3c57f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 3:10 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

I want to talk about the STATIONARY BIKE that I've incorporated to my
official title. This is in response to my neighbor denying my space on
the road, and his refusal to give me more sweets. Yeah, his wife works
in a bakery, and I would get the scraps, which together with my
sedentary life in the cage was bound to kill me.

The responses here are no less hostile. Nobody has demonstrated I slow
down traffic, but no one offers a solution where I should be riding
with peace of mind... ENTER THE STATIONARY BIKE! Fuck the neighbor,
the sweets and the BS. I WILL BURN THE CALORIES until September 15th
(mark that date) when 1,000 bicycle will stampede into the local
streets (that's a mental image) via the local Velib program, whatever
its name is.

If the riders are clumsy enough (I expect them to be) they will TAKE
THE LANE and save the BS. Many will be tourists, which is not the
average MONKEY out there either. Them riding on sidewalks would be
stupid. They are the milking cow of the local enemy and we need the
cash. And then I can sell my stationary bike on Craigslist for people
who won't as lucky as we will be.

TO BE CONTINUED.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 4:47 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the calories"

On Aug 9, 3:09 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock & the Stationary Bicycle to burn the
calories" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I want to talk about the STATIONARY BIKE that I've incorporated to my
> official title. This is in response to my neighbor denying my space on
> the road, and his refusal to give me more sweets. Yeah, his wife works
> in a bakery, and I would get the scraps, which together with my
> sedentary life in the cage was bound to kill me.
>
> The responses here are no less hostile. Nobody has demonstrated I slow
> down traffic, but no one offers a solution where I should be riding
> with peace of mind... ENTER THE STATIONARY BIKE! Fuck the neighbor,
> the sweets and the BS. I WILL BURN THE CALORIES until September 15th
> (mark that date) when 1,000 bicycle will stampede into the local
> streets (that's a mental image) via the local Velib program, whatever
> its name is.
>
> If the riders are clumsy enough (I expect them to be) they will TAKE
> THE LANE and save the BS. Many will be tourists, which is not the
> average MONKEY out there either. Them riding on sidewalks would be
> stupid. They are the milking cow of the "local enemy" and we need the
> cash. And then I can sell my stationary bike on Craigslist for people
> who won't as lucky as we will be.
>
> TO BE CONTINUED.

"local economy" not "local enemy"

Cycling can be a big boost for tourism anywhere.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 6:19 pm
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

Bought some mangoes in Jackson Height Queens.

Same brand is more then DOUBLE the price if you buy them Costco
"wholesale"!

How come?

I noticed other things that the wholesale price at Costco is more
expensive then retail stores.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 8:41 pm
From: "Bill"

"www.Queensbridge.us" wrote in message
> Bought some mangoes in Jackson Height Queens.
>
> Same brand is more then DOUBLE the price if you buy them Costco
> "wholesale"!
>
> How come?
>
> I noticed other things that the wholesale price at Costco is more
> expensive then retail stores.

Why? Because people can't add. Also because there is a sucker born every
minute.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: videoshot photos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/836f3f94688e21f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 9:15 pm
From: guru datta

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THISHA HOT WET PHOTOS

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SEXY CHARMI IN A BATHROOM

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KAJALAGARWAL IN A ROMANTIC FEEL