Frugal Living: Sep 26, 2008

Friday, September 26, 2008

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Corruption, Whispers & Receivership
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/130a022f9ac2d520?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 10:12 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <%OYCk.1532$Jw.215@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The United States has transformed itself, the most radical degraded aspects
> having occurred in the last eight years.

First, don't complain to me. Go find the people that voted for
Mr. Bush and kept him in office even after we had 4 years of his
stuff.

Second, posting now is a little late. Where were you when we
had our first clue when Bush Sr. let slip the "new world order"
that he was establishing.

Third, none of this should come as any kind of surprise if you
had read and understood the book. Not the bible, but the book
that is the manual for how to be a good conservative. That is
a book called the light and the glory. Read it, and everything
will suddenly make sense to you.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 6:30 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> wrote in message
news:john-40F95C.00121126092008@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <%OYCk.1532$Jw.215@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The United States has transformed itself, the most radical degraded
>> aspects
>> having occurred in the last eight years.
>
> First, don't complain to me. Go find the people that voted for
> Mr. Bush and kept him in office even after we had 4 years of his
> stuff.

actually, this all started with the creation of the NON-federal reserve.
get "the creature from jekyll island"

> Second, posting now is a little late. Where were you when we
> had our first clue when Bush Sr. let slip the "new world order"
> that he was establishing.

where was i? let's see in 1989, i followed my active duty navy dh to
maine, just in time to escape hurricane hugo, returning to my beloved
charleston, sc in jan 1993, where my dh then deployed to the mediter-
ranean sea out of the charleston naval base, since closed by "can't keep
my pecker in my pants" clinton. i was clued in before he let it slip.
dh,
on the other hand, prefers to keep his head in the sand, and so destitution
is in our future :( (seriously).

>
> Third, none of this should come as any kind of surprise if you
> had read and understood the book. Not the bible, but the book
> that is the manual for how to be a good conservative. That is
> a book called the light and the glory. Read it, and everything
> will suddenly make sense to you.
>
> -john-

our presidents are selected, not elected.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 6:32 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Wt5Dk.3$Dk4.2@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> wrote in message
> news:john-40F95C.00121126092008@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>> In article <%OYCk.1532$Jw.215@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
>> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The United States has transformed itself, the most radical degraded
>>> aspects
>>> having occurred in the last eight years.
>>
>> First, don't complain to me. Go find the people that voted for
>> Mr. Bush and kept him in office even after we had 4 years of his
>> stuff.
>
> actually, this all started with the creation of the NON-federal reserve.
> get "the creature from jekyll island"
>
>> Second, posting now is a little late. Where were you when we
>> had our first clue when Bush Sr. let slip the "new world order"
>> that he was establishing.
>
> where was i? let's see in 1989, i followed my active duty navy dh to
> maine, just in time to escape hurricane hugo, returning to my beloved
> charleston, sc in jan 1993, where my dh then deployed to the mediter-
> ranean sea out of the charleston naval base, since closed by "can't keep
> my pecker in my pants" clinton. i was clued in before he let it slip.
> dh,
> on the other hand, prefers to keep his head in the sand, and so
> destitution
> is in our future :( (seriously).
>
>>
>> Third, none of this should come as any kind of surprise if you
>> had read and understood the book. Not the bible, but the book
>> that is the manual for how to be a good conservative. That is
>> a book called the light and the glory. Read it, and everything
>> will suddenly make sense to you.
>>
>> -john-
>
> our presidents are selected, not elected.

oh, abtw, i'm such a good conservative that i refuse to vote for anyone
running
on the republicrap or demashit party.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Economy Not Based Upon Production is Doomed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b16c24c91c2890e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 2:47 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:33:58 -0500, "crosstar"
<crosstar@nationalist.org> wrote:

>ECONOMY NOT BASED UPON PRODUCTION IS DOOMED
>
>What is the "global-economy," anyhow? It all began in the Fifties,
>when government-edicts forced Negroes into jobs. Consequently, as
>shoddy-workmanship replaced "Made-in-America" craftsmanship, industry
>evacuated overseas. Products made by Mexicans or Asians seemed
>preferable to those made by descendants of African-slaves. The
>infusion of cash into foreign countries turned former colonies into
>creditors, with a huge financial-stake in America.
>
>To make matters worse, Uncle Sam, who had always been a creditor,
>became the world's leading debtor, not only abroad, but to minorities
>and aliens, who had gained "entitlements" to budget-busting welfare,
>housing, health-care and food-stamps, through demands backed up
>by rioting. Instead of production backing prosperity, an artificial
>"bubble," inflated by the printing of greenbacks, lifted off.
>
>It became "illegal" to refuse to lend money to Negroes and others who
>could not afford to repay. In fact, banks became government-mandated
>"equal-housing lenders," meaning that, if they did not dole out money
>to minorities and aliens, they would be fined or shut down. Those who
>complied, eventually, went bankrupt or garnered a federal "bailout."
>Printing money, with no production to back it up, invariably leads to
>runaway-inflation, depression and, then, economic-collapse.
>
>Abraham Lincoln tried printing greenbacks to finance the Civil War.
>Ruination was staved off only because the Union prevailed, but, when
>Germany lost World War I, its unrestrained printing of money turned
>the entire national-currency worthless, provoking a revolution.
>George W. Bush has reacted to the shoeshine boy taking over the shop
>as just some "adjustment." Bush repairs to the international-banking
>elite that "what goes down, must come up," but the "globalists" have
>no use for America, except to bleed her dry. In the New America,
>sought by Nationalists, worth will be measured by work, American
>workers will take precedence and the main export will not be jobs but
>those who no longer fit in.
>
>To unsubscribe from Crosstarlist:
>http://www.nationalist.org/contact/unsubscribe.php
>
>To subscribe to Crosstarlist:
>http://www.nationalist.org/contact/subscribe.php
>
>To comment on Crosstarlist:
>http://www.nationalist.org/contact/comment.php
>
>To read this article on the Crosstar website:
>http://www.nationalist.org/ATW/2008/100101.html#10
>
>Crosstarlist
>Trademark/service of nationalist.org
>Not necessarily Crosstarlist views
>Copyright 2008 The Nationalist Movement
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get The Facts About The GPS Device
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3eb7ec9811172cf0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 3:10 am
From: drishaq

…GPS navigation devices are becoming increasingly popular because they
are constantly expanding their range of uses...
http://gadgetreviews.co.cc/Get_The_Facts_About_The_GPS_Device.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I AM DOMME HEAR ME ROAR.25 year old Woman BellaPura
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/38a71496fdfee284?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 5:51 am
From: krystinacarle@gmail.com

25 year old Woman BellaPura in Saint Louis, Looking For: Men, Women,
Couples for erotic email exchange, phone fantasies, performing only,
watching only or active participation http://ragdai.info/BellaPura.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Opinions on dentist conduct
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a04b6ef8411a621?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 6:29 am
From: Steven Bornfeld

Newbie@bix.nex wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:38:21 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
> <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a great big world--there are good and bad people everywhere.
>> Try and find the good ones.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> Nope, they are all bad.
>
> Some are just not as bad as others.

Now you's got me a-scared.

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do Warehouse Stores Really Save You Money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/512851cfe1d68efd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 8:57 am
From: Bret_Halford

On Sep 25, 8:59 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two dozen
> frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop and buy
> them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>
> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7...
>
> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.

Depends.

Are the bagels the only thing you are buying at the warehouse?

What are your transportation costs to the warehouse?
To the local bagel shop?
Note that IRS is currently estimating the cost of operating a car at
58.5 cents a mile,
and my guess is the IRS will be estimating conservatively.

What is your time worth? How much (if any) time do you free up
by going to the (local? distant?) warehouse once vs. the local bagel
shop 24 times?

Are the frozen bagels really comparable to the (presumably) fresh
bagels from
the local shop?

The real brain-buster is why you don't bake your own and just buy
flour and oil
in bulk.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 9:02 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Bret_Halford" <bret@sybase.com> wrote in message
news:d87c1a0e-b7d1-46ff-a040-514581af98e7@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 8:59 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two
> dozen
> frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop and buy
> them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>
> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7...
>
> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.

Depends.

Are the bagels the only thing you are buying at the warehouse?

What is your time worth? How much (if any) time do you free up
by going to the (local? distant?) warehouse once vs. the local bagel
shop 24 times?

Are the frozen bagels really comparable to the (presumably) fresh
bagels from
the local shop?

The real brain-buster is why you don't bake your own and just buy
flour and oil in bulk.

------

bagels aren't as easy to make as you'd think. plus flour and oil will
go rancid after a time.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 9:00 pm
From: tin cup

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two
> dozen frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop
> and buy them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>
> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7987958945d58f864a&siteid=nwhpf&sguid=LlOmLCZmMkSOlLZa0_8Pmw
>
>
> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.
We go to Sam's to buy meat, because it is not preserved by weird
chemicals, except for frozen chicken and a few odds and ends.
We end up throwing half, of it, out because we can't use all, of a
package in a day or so. They only sell large packages.
So, no we don't save money.
We now go to the Fresh Market and pay about one and half times as much
but it gets eaten rather than thrown away. We actually save a bit.
If you have a large family, of course you could probably save.
I don't much care for going to one now as they have limited their
catagories and choices to just a few.
I use to go to look at what new buys they had in tools and gizmos I
didn't actually need, most of the time.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 12:19 pm
From: skarkada@gmail.com

On Sep 25, 11:00 pm, tin cup <ti...@outdoor.not> wrote:

> I use to go to look at what new buys they had in tools and gizmos I
> didn't actually need, most of the time.

We discontinued our membership at Sam's last year when we realized
that

- we were buying things we really didn't need
- we were buying in quantities we couldn't consume in a reasonable
period of time
- we were driving too far to the club
- price for non-food items was less online

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 12:44 pm
From: "h"

"tin cup" <tinny@outdoor.not> wrote in message
news:X7ZCk.608$4K3.567@newsfe13.iad...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two
>> dozen frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop
>> and buy them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>>
>> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7987958945d58f864a&siteid=nwhpf&sguid=LlOmLCZmMkSOlLZa0_8Pmw
>> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.
> We go to Sam's to buy meat, because it is not preserved by weird
> chemicals, except for frozen chicken and a few odds and ends.
> We end up throwing half, of it, out because we can't use all, of a package
> in a day or so. They only sell large packages.
> So, no we don't save money.

Buy a freezer, dude. Sheesh.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 2:47 pm
From: "catalpa"

-Depends.
-
-Are the bagels the only thing you are buying at the warehouse?
-
-What are your transportation costs to the warehouse?
-To the local bagel shop?
-Note that IRS is currently estimating the cost of operating a car at
-58.5 cents a mile,
-and my guess is the IRS will be estimating conservatively.
-
-What is your time worth? How much (if any) time do you free up
-by going to the (local? distant?) warehouse once vs. the local bagel
-shop 24 times?
-
-Are the frozen bagels really comparable to the (presumably) fresh
-bagels from
-the local shop?
-
-The real brain-buster is why you don't bake your own and just buy
-flour and oil
-in bulk.

There is no oil used in making bagels.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: !!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1d18aae7ff6310aa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 11:22 am
From: Derald

http://www.investors.com/editorial/cartoon.asp

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1502&status=article&id=307241242284619

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=307234949613274

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1502&status=article&id=307234083390870

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=307234476244126

==============================================================================
TOPIC: City reappraised our house up 31% !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8459c124a40d2583?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:20 pm
From: The Real Bev

George wrote:

> Same process where I live. They outsourced it to Century 21. They
> decided all of the values based on 1/1/08. Our taxes will go up over 45%
> starting 1/1/2009. They pretty much told you what you need to do. You
> need to schedule the informal hearing and offer some clear defense with
> a sound basis (gross computational error etc) or hire a licensed
> appraiser. If you can't offer some argument then you will pay.

A friend who moved to New York told us about the "Welcome Stranger" tax.
When you bought a house the assessment was something ridiculous
which, if you didn't protest, you paid for the rest of your life or
until you moved; if you protested it was immediately decreased.

> The only real thing to do is what everyone talks about but does nothing
> about and throw *all* of the current politicians under the bus, have
> strict term limits and demand accountability.

Or copy California's Proposition 13, designed to severely limit
increases unless the property changes hands. The only way to keep them
from wasting our tax money is to keep them from collecting it.

--
Cheers,
Bev
==================================================================
"America is at an awkward stage: it is too late to work within the
system, but it is too early to shoot the bastards." -Claire Wolfe

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay - fees go up to 19% of listing price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/31e9404b0a6e5dfd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 2:53 pm
From: clams_casino

Al Bundy wrote:

>On Sep 24, 1:42 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
>>>$1 at White Castle.
>>>
>>>
>> How old are you, Al?
>>
>>
>
>I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care, but I have a
>good memory and was driving when I was 12. Cigarettes went up to a
>quarter in vending machines and the pack had three pennies change
>under the cellophane wrapper. (Have not smoked in many decades though.)
>
>

I recall the cigarettes with the pennies, but $0.23 / gallon is the
cheapest I recall seeing gasoline.

I recall reading about $0.19 price wars around 1970.

15 cent burgers were as cheap as I recall (McDonalds, etc) but I also
recall 15-cent foot-long hot dogs as well as 10 cents for a loaf of bread.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 3:52 pm
From: Robin Coutellier

In article <hO2dndAoVoufskHVnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@posted.hiwaay2>,
gheston@hiwaay.net says...
> Some time in October, eBay is disallowing the use of checks or money orders
> for payment "to reduce fraud", forcing people to use PayPal, credit cards,
> or local pickup. As checks or money orders are the only two payment methods
> I'm willing to use, this will effectively eliminate my use of the site.

I use a (free) checking account strictly for dealing with PayPal -- it's
at a completely different bank from my main one. I didn't even bother
getting checks for it. I don't keep a lot of money in it, so if
something goes wrong, there's not much to lose.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: VIDEO: Ron Paul Talks About the Bailout
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ecd7ed3cd444e42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 11:12 am
From: perreigh

Ron has some rational things to say about our predicament. He's
certainly correct about the bailout having dubious value, and none for
Mainstreeters.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 3:32 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

perreigh <perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ron has some rational things to say about our predicament.

Nope, not one.

> He's certainly correct about the bailout having dubious value,

Nope, not that either.

> and none for Mainstreeters.

And he's wrong there in spades. The big advantage for Mainstreeters is avoiding another great depression, stupid.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 3:47 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:32:41 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

> perreigh <perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ron has some rational things to say about our predicament.
>
> Nope, not one.
>
>> He's certainly correct about the bailout having dubious value,
>
> Nope, not that either.
>
>> and none for Mainstreeters.
>
> And he's wrong there in spades. The big advantage for Mainstreeters is
> avoiding another great depression, stupid.

<sarcasm>Wonderful comeback! Cogent, intelligent, cohernet,
comprehensive.</sarcasm>

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bush Doctrine: Privatize Profits, Socialize Losses
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ron Paul: "They want dictatorship, they want to pass all the penalties
and suffering on to the average person on Main Street,"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5c39b3c7d27cd5bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 1:00 pm
From: "judicial-inc.biz"

Ron Paul: Greenspan, Bernanke Should Be Criminally Charged

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, September 26, 2008

Congressman Ron Paul says that the bailout bill is likely to pass,
heralding a 10-year plus economic depression for America and the
potential for martial law should civil unrest arise as the financial
meltdown worsens.

Speaking on The Alex Jones Show, Paul said of the bailout, "They want
dictatorship, they want to pass all the penalties and suffering on to
the average person on Main Street," adding, "We will have a depression
or recession, it's locked in place due to previous Federal Reserve
actions."

"When they say that if we don't do exactly as they say and turn over
more of our money and more of our liberties and exempt themselves from
any court in the whole nation, they're trying to intimidate us and
lead us into doing the wrong thing," said Paul.

The Congressman added that serious problems would arise if nothing was
done to address the problem, but that more serious consequences would
follow should the bailout be passed.

Paul warned that the only question was whether the meltdown would last
one year or ten years and how much liberty would be lost in that time
frame.

"It looks like from I see in Congress, that they're opting for a
decade plus of depression rather than saying let's correct our ways,
let's balance the budget, let's bring our troops home," said Paul,
adding that the same course of printing money would continue -
prolonging the agony and preventing a necessary correction.

Asked if civil unrest was a possibility in the midst of an economic
depression, referencing a recent Army Times report concerning the use
of active duty military being brought back from Iraq for "Homeland
patrols" and "crowd control," Paul questioned, "Are we going to have
martial law or are we going to have more freedoms? The more problems
that we have, the more likely it is that we're going to have martial
law, so I do think they anticipate and they plan for these things."

Asked if criminal investigations and prosecutions of individuals on
Wall Street should commence, Paul agreed but said that the main target
of criminal inquiry should be the Federal Reserve board itself
because, "That's where the fraud is."

"They want to be lawless, they don't want to be held accountable," he
added.

Paul said that grand juries should be convened to take on prosecutions
rather than the FBI becoming involved, stating, "We have proper
authority with that and experience with it and the Enron case is a
good example."

The Congressman said that Greenspan and Bernanke should be criminally
charged but that such an effort would be largely symbolic. "Morally
speaking, they're the culprits," said Paul.

Asked what his solution to the crisis would be, Paul said, "I think
the most important thing to do is to send the message that we're going
to quit living beyond our means and the president can set the standard
for that and he has the most control under the Constitution on foreign
policy - he can say no more wars, we're done with the wars, we're not
going to take on the Russians, we're not going to take on people in
Venezuela, we're going to start talking to the Cubans and bring our
troops home and save hundreds of billions of dollars - that would send
a powerful message that the dollar would respond to and oil prices
would come down."

Paul said that Americans had to accept a new idea of government that
harked back to what the founders envisaged and that the welfare state
would have to unravel along with aspirations of building a
geopolitical empire.

"In the meantime the policy ought to be - shrink the size of
government, decrease regulation, work towards sound money, remove the
authority of the Fed to create money out of thin air and get tax
reduction," stated the Congressman. Paul added that eliminating the
income tax would mean everybody becoming a lot richer and more money
would be ploughed into the economy.

"It will not solve the problem, it just delays the inevitable," said
Paul of the bailout, adding that he expects the bill to pass in a move
that would, "Defy the American people."

"I think they get to the point where they think they're like God and
can control everything and they don't realize that the market really
is more powerful than all the bankers and all the
politicians….Ultimately the underground economy is the real economy
and I think they could over step themselves and hopefully we could
come out with a better world afterwards," concluded the Congressman.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=4868

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 4:03 pm
From: "V"

Elect a real leader and defender of the constitution ,not to a communist or
a senile warmonger.

"judicial-inc.biz" <sweep101946@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:74c39807-e4ad-452d-b884-40f9e8f3ddbf@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Ron Paul: Greenspan, Bernanke Should Be Criminally Charged

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, September 26, 2008

The Congressman added that serious problems would arise if nothing was
done to address the problem, but that more serious consequences would
follow should the bailout be passed.

Paul warned that the only question was whether the meltdown would last
one year or ten years and how much liberty would be lost in that time
frame.

"They want to be lawless, they don't want to be held accountable," he
added.

The Congressman said that Greenspan and Bernanke should be criminally
charged but that such an effort would be largely symbolic. "Morally
speaking, they're the culprits," said Paul.

"It will not solve the problem, it just delays the inevitable," said
Paul of the bailout, adding that he expects the bill to pass in a move
that would, "Defy the American people."

http://www.infowars.com/?p=4868

==============================================================================
TOPIC: nice messenger
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76d0455ff113a144?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 1:50 pm
From: clams_casino

yassgal6@googlemail.com wrote:

>live messenger
>
>
>
>The specifications of light and beautiful and you can mail,
>Google ,Yahoo , msn ,hotmail ,live and moor
>
>
>
>Experience is worth following linkage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Have fun time
>
>

Cool - more virus laden spyware.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jessica Alba Reveals Bikini Body 3 Months After Giving Birth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f26759a6559a9637?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 3:06 pm
From: nsujin

www.gsujinbiblestudies.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dual SIM car adaptor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c0e044dcf88ff5cf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 3:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Raj <rj@rj.com> wrote

> Where can I buy something like this?
> http://www.duosim.com/instructions.html

> I am in Bay Area, California.

> Anyone seen anything like this is in a regular store?

> Don't want to order online.

More fool you. They cost peanuts to post so online makes sense even from HongKong.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

18 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 2:38 pm
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

muzician21@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sep 25, 12:58 pm, Dartos <tuthjoc...@myturbonet.com> wrote:
>> You seem a little edgy and easily offended.
>
>
> There's no question I'm not in a dentist lovin' frame of mind at the
> moment, phrases like "Well, go back to the DMO dudes if you don't like
> it" I believe to be coming from a severely wrong-minded mentality.
>
> Oh wait, you and Fawks are one and the same, same e-mail, different
> NNTP. Ah ha...
>
>> Also, just because you pay your dental bill does not mean you 'own'
>> the dentist. I'm not at your beck and call.
>
> It doesn't make them my bitch, but it does mean I'm paying for
> ownership of time, good-faith, honest application of skills and
> consideration. You give someone money, you're supposed to get
> something for it. I believe this goes beyond the technical application
> of dentistry. I realize you're hypothesizing but I believe it would be
> hyperbole to characterize my particular expectations as unreasonable.
>
> I also believe it's possible that some people can fall into a mindset
> where they see their customers as so many cash cows in the cattle gate
> and their focus is going through the process as uninterrupted as
> possible and the "peripheral" stuff becomes less of a consideration. I
> didn't have 20 questions about toothpaste as someone else described, I
> had a specific short, technical question. I believe wanting to be
> informed is within the scope of reason. I have a somewhat technical
> mind, some 80-year old grandma or housewife might not think of the
> ramifications of a particular type of filling, I did.
>
> They're in a particular circumstance where there's not a lot of
> accountability. They don't have a boss to register a complaint with,
> as I understand it the professional oversight groups are something of
> a joke. Unless they really screw up there's no litigation option. I
> found out later that one of the previous DMO dentists I had gone to
> has a long-running rep in the area as being a hack, yet he's still in
> business, which I've heard is a common tale with DMO dentists.
>
> And once he's sitting on a healthy bankroll he may feel less
> motivation to be that concerned. I don't know the guy outside of his
> office, he may have been a prick all along and just hid it well.
>
> And they're also in a position to milk the situation. They say you
> need a root canal. I don't ever see any closeups of where the decay
> has intruded on the root. Or how do I know he doesn't do a filling in
> such a way as to promote future decay and a year or so down the road
> "oopsie, you need a crown/root canal". *Cha-ching* All the while
> people know them as good old Dr. X, he gets civic awards, is on the
> city beautification committee, etc.
>
>
>> I will bend over
>> backwards to deliver comfortable, quality care and treat you
>> like I would like to be treated. Abuse that relationship from
>> your side, and things might change.
>
>
> I don't find wanting to ask a question that would take 2 - 3 minutes
> tops to resolve to be abusing a relationship or in any way overly
> demanding. I believe well within reason to someone who's willing to
> "bend over backwards" to treat his patients well.

You sound quite reasonably peeved. Your expectations are in no way out
of line.
At the same time, I've known Dartos through his posting history here
for almost 10 years. There is not a chance in hell that you'd be
treated by him in the way you were treated in your recent dental
experience. By the same token, all of us (Dartos and I are near
contemporaries--we've both been doing this 30 years or more) have had
patients who just suck the life forces out of us. You may take comfort
that, just as there are patients who hate nothing more than the dental
experince, there are patients whose presence on the appointment provoke
instant diarrhea in the dental staff.
This is a great big world--there are good and bad people everywhere.
Try and find the good ones.

Steve

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:51 pm
From: Newbie@bix.nex

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:35:24 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet.com>
wrote:

>You used to really 'know' your physician, dentist,
>pharmacist, optomitrist, butcher, dry cleaner, shoe repairman, barber,
>grocer, banker, mechanic, etc.

They also used to make shoes worth repairing !

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:56 pm
From: Newbie@bix.nex

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:38:21 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote:

> This is a great big world--there are good and bad people everywhere.
>Try and find the good ones.
>
>Steve

Nope, they are all bad.

Some are just not as bad as others.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: martha
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccc037dde74d13f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 2:44 pm
From: manny

On Sep 16, 8:54�pm, ghes...@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston) wrote:
> In article <6PCdneqQponHRVLVnZ2dnUVZ_hydn...@earthlink.com>,
>
> Derald �<der...@invalid.net> wrote:
> >I'm certainly not much of a teevee person, much less a daytime teevee
> >person (well, except for "The Young and the Restless") but who else here
> >finds Martha Stewart absolutely fascinating? She has one of the most
> >finely-tuned, best controlled "type 'A'" personalities available to the
> >average voyeur-aficionado. Hell, I even watch her "Everyday Foods"
> >series that is presented by my local PBS affiliate....
>
> The primary feature of "Everyday Foods" is that Martha does _not_ appear
> in the show. Bear in mind that you're not seeing all the screaming and
> abuse that she's famous for on the set.
>
> Gary
>
> --
> Gary Heston �ghes...@hiwaay.net �http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
>
> Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
> followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

All I know after watching Everyday Foods on PBS with and without
Martha. After she appeared on the show last season after John (the
baker) left the show to open his own bakery, the show seems to have
gone down hill. I do enjoy her on her own program on Channel 4 shown
in the affternoon weekdays here in the Los Angeles area, when I get
the chance to see the program. Martha would be best to just leave the
Everyday Foods program alone without her help.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:00 pm
From: LOVE Europe HATE the EU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AW-vsXCor8

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Financial crisis affecting you?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/13d6ead47b0461dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:23 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote

>>>> Unless you work in the finance industry or just bought an
>>>> overpriced house, are you affected? I feel the price of
>>>> oil more than the fall of Lehman Bros. and AIG.

>>> It's going to hurt everyone - eventually.

>> Not necessarily, most obviously if the bailout works.

>>> Even with the supposed bail-out proposed
>>> - there will be repercussions down the line

>> Yes, but that wont necessarily hurt everyone.

>>> - and the lower you are on the line - the harder it will hit.

>> Thats not right either. Those entirely dependant on welfare
>> and food stamps, and they are the lowest on the line apart
>> from the 'homeless' wont be affected at all except that
>> their entertainment will be disrupted by the bullshit etc.

> Guess I'm concerned about my Social Security check.

Sure.

> Wonder if that would be impacted.

Nope, not even if we see another great depression and I dont believe that will happen either.

The cost of the bailout is less than has been pissed against the wall in Iraq, perfectly affordable.

Not a patch on what was spent on WW2, the Marshall Plan and the
Cold War and Vietnam and the US clearly could afford all that fine.

Even if we do see another great depression, the effects on
someone like you wont be anything like the great depression was.

The most that might happen is stagnation like Japan saw for a decade recently when their
financial system imploded even more spectacularly than the US financial system may do.

What we'll actually see is a bailout very similar to the S&L fiasco
and few can even remember any significant downsides with that now.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 4:21 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6k2hb2F5qambU1@mid.individual.net...
> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
>
> >>>> Unless you work in the finance industry or just bought an
> >>>> overpriced house, are you affected? I feel the price of
> >>>> oil more than the fall of Lehman Bros. and AIG.
>
> >>> It's going to hurt everyone - eventually.
>
> >> Not necessarily, most obviously if the bailout works.
>
> >>> Even with the supposed bail-out proposed
> >>> - there will be repercussions down the line
>
> >> Yes, but that wont necessarily hurt everyone.
>
> >>> - and the lower you are on the line - the harder it will hit.
>
> >> Thats not right either. Those entirely dependant on welfare
> >> and food stamps, and they are the lowest on the line apart
> >> from the 'homeless' wont be affected at all except that
> >> their entertainment will be disrupted by the bullshit etc.
>
> > Guess I'm concerned about my Social Security check.
>
> Sure.
>
> > Wonder if that would be impacted.
>
> Nope, not even if we see another great depression and I dont believe that
will happen either.

that's good to know.
>
> The cost of the bailout is less than has been pissed against the wall in
Iraq, perfectly affordable.

I agree with that - the pissing away of funds in Iraq.
>
> Not a patch on what was spent on WW2, the Marshall Plan and the
> Cold War and Vietnam and the US clearly could afford all that fine.

I remember some of my life after WW2 - wasn;t bad at all. My parents were
not living high - but living comfortably - so of course I was as well.
>
> Even if we do see another great depression, the effects on
> someone like you wont be anything like the great depression was.

I wonder sometimes about people who consider my having only basic cable is a
sign of being 'poor'. As much as my physical condition allows - I am very
self sufficient - and would continue to be so. But would like to get
healthy enough to get some chickens.
>
> The most that might happen is stagnation like Japan saw for a decade
recently when their
> financial system imploded even more spectacularly than the US financial
system may do.
>
> What we'll actually see is a bailout very similar to the S&L fiasco
> and few can even remember any significant downsides with that now.
>
>

Perhaps it's because of all the media crying 'wolf' that people seem to look
at the doom and gloom outlook.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 6:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote

>>>>>> Unless you work in the finance industry or just bought
>>>>>> an overpriced house, are you affected? I feel the price
>>>>>> of oil more than the fall of Lehman Bros. and AIG.

>>>>> It's going to hurt everyone - eventually.

>>>> Not necessarily, most obviously if the bailout works.

>>>>> Even with the supposed bail-out proposed
>>>>> - there will be repercussions down the line

>>>> Yes, but that wont necessarily hurt everyone.

>>>>> - and the lower you are on the line - the harder it will hit.

>>>> Thats not right either. Those entirely dependant on welfare
>>>> and food stamps, and they are the lowest on the line apart
>>>> from the 'homeless' wont be affected at all except that
>>>> their entertainment will be disrupted by the bullshit etc.

>>> Guess I'm concerned about my Social Security check.

>> Sure.

>>> Wonder if that would be impacted.

>> Nope, not even if we see another great depression
>> and I dont believe that will happen either.

> that's good to know.

>> The cost of the bailout is less than has been
>> pissed against the wall in Iraq, perfectly affordable.

> I agree with that - the pissing away of funds in Iraq.

>> Not a patch on what was spent on WW2, the Marshall Plan and the
>> Cold War and Vietnam and the US clearly could afford all that fine.

> I remember some of my life after WW2 - wasn;t bad at all.

Yeah, it was fine.

> My parents were not living high - but living comfortably

Mine too, after both of them were involved in WW2 personally themselves.

> - so of course I was as well.

I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for WW2.

>> Even if we do see another great depression, the effects on
>> someone like you wont be anything like the great depression was.

> I wonder sometimes about people who consider
> my having only basic cable is a sign of being 'poor'.

Sure, some do.

> As much as my physical condition allows - I am very self sufficient - and would
> continue to be so. But would like to get healthy enough to get some chickens.

Yeah, animals can be a problem if there isnt anyone that
can look after them if thing go thru a bad patch health wise.

>> The most that might happen is stagnation like Japan saw for
>> a decade recently when their financial system imploded even
>> more spectacularly than the US financial system may do.

>> What we'll actually see is a bailout very similar to the S&L fiasco
>> and few can even remember any significant downsides with that now.

> Perhaps it's because of all the media crying 'wolf' that
> people seem to look at the doom and gloom outlook.

Its more that its so easy to sack people in the US that produces that effect.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:49 pm
From: George Grapman

George wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>> I recently talked to someone with an unusual assessment issue. The
>> property straddles two town and it on a steep hill. The house is in
>> one town and the hill in another. It is unsafe to build anything on
>> the hill so it acts as an open space buffer yet the town containing
>> that area based their assessment on the value of the parcel where the
>> house is.
>> After two years of fighting the owner invited the officials to view
>> the property in person and after a visit they agreed that she had been
>> overcharged.
>>>
>>>
>
> Our county was just reassessed by the "world renowned" century 21 and
> there are numerous instances like that. For example my neighbor owns a
> very irregular adjoining property that according to zoning isn't
> suitable for any building yet they valued it as a standard building lot.
> Or my buddy had to buy a adjoining property to place a sand mound system
> because no place on his property was suitable. Sand mounds are really
> common and distinctive because of the obvious mound and vent pipes but
> they decided that it too was a building lot.

By the way, this person also has two easements,one over private
property ( a hotel) and the other over public land (a public works
storage area) to access her house.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 4:31 pm
From: curly'q

Al Bundy wrote:
>
> curly'q wrote:
>
>> I was weened on those things.
>>
>> Speaking of frugal, there are some recipes online for fairly authentic,
>> according to the reviews, sliders. This thread got me interested and I
>> will be whipping up a batch next week. I'll post a cost breakdown and
>> taste comments.
>>
>>
>> Curly
>
> Be sure you use the straight SAE 40 weight and no synthetic oil.
>
> Larry

Urban myth, but not that far off. The real secret ingredient is strained
beef baby food.

Moe

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 5:38 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <cbd7296b-e880-4aad-ac71-d5a9ff5e216d@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>OhioGuy wrote:
>> I just noticed a major hike in the fees to list items on Ebay. I had
>> listed a few DVD's over the past month, and noticed the fees jumped.

>> Including listing and final value, plus Paypal, to list a fixed price "buy
>> it now" listing costs 19% of the price you hopefully sell at - just barely
>> shy of 1/5.

>> Man, I remember back when it was called Auctionweb, and it only cost a 10c
>> listing fee to sell things on there.

Some time in October, eBay is disallowing the use of checks or money orders
for payment "to reduce fraud", forcing people to use PayPal, credit cards,
or local pickup. As checks or money orders are the only two payment methods
I'm willing to use, this will effectively eliminate my use of the site.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/23/ebay_payment_policy_change_us/

Oddly enough, I've seen very few reports of fraud via check/MO; all the
complaints I see are related to PayPal. Of course, this can't possibly have
anything to do with the little detail that eBay doesn't collect a fee from
checks or money orders. Certainly not.

>I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
>$1 at White Castle.

Ah, yes; when I could fill up a 16 gallon tank for less than $4, and
A&W sold real root beer in frosty glass mugs. Good onion rings, too.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vote now against the bailout: online at www.congress.org
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0bc1711aacbebc5d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 4:51 pm
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Sep 25, 1:13 pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Look at this margin: NINE TO ONE AGAINST THE BAILOUT! I don't care
> if the margin of error is 25%, that kind of lopsided number only means
> one thing: the vast majority of Americans are against the bailout.
>
> Go to the website below and cast your vote today. This is an .org
> website so it has more clout than a .com website.
>
> RL
>
> SHOULD CONGRESS BAILOUT WALL STREET TO HELP MAIN STREET?
> The Bush Administration proposes a $700 billion bailout to restore
> confidence in the economic system so banks start lending again.
> Without that, many other banks and businesses (and the jobs and
> mortgages) will fail they say. Critics say we shouldn't reward their
> bad decisions. Democrats say the plan needs oversight, homeowner
> protections and caps on executives' salaries. What do you think? Act
> quickly as the Administration wants a vote within days. Consider a
> hand delivered letter with Extra Impact. Start by picking your view in
> our Action Poll. (72,788 messages thus far)
>
> 9% say I Support the $700 Billion Mortgage Bailout
> 91% say I Oppose the $700 Billion Mortgage Bailout
>
> http://www.congress.org/congressorg/headlines.tt

mitch

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 8:21 pm
From: huey.callison@gmail.com

On Sep 25, 1:13?pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Look at this margin: ?NINE TO ONE AGAINST THE BAILOUT! ?I don't care
> if the margin of error is 25%, that kind of lopsided number only means
> one thing: ?the vast majority of Americans are against the bailout.
>
> Go to the website below and cast your vote today. ?This is an .org
> website so it has more clout than a .com website.

You obviously don't understand how internet domain registration works.

--
Huey

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 6:30 pm
From: "yassgal6@googlemail.com"

live messenger

The specifications of light and beautiful and you can mail,
Google ,Yahoo , msn ,hotmail ,live and moor

Experience is worth following linkage

http://www.zshare.net/download/1922067682a774bb

Have fun time

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 6:58 pm
From: "Raj"

Where can I buy something like this?
http://www.duosim.com/instructions.html

I am in Bay Area, California.

Anyone seen anything like this is in a regular store?

Don't want to order online.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 7:59 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two dozen
frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop and buy
them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7987958945d58f864a&siteid=nwhpf&sguid=LlOmLCZmMkSOlLZa0_8Pmw

i'm generally a disciplined shopper.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 8:38 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

The United States has transformed itself, the most radical degraded aspects
having occurred in the last eight years.
Many might object or cringe at repeated mention of the Fascist Business
Model implemented by the Clinton Administration,
and carried to extreme by the Bush II Administration. It is a harsh
departure from Beacon of Freedom. Too bad, fact of life!
This merger of state and big business in the midst of a climax, the biggest
display of exported financial toxin in modern history,
and the disintegration of the financial structure for the nation owning the
world reserve currency. The Fascist Business Model
has criminal fraud & corruption as its chief characteristic, alienation &
resentment as its chief foreign effect, and systemic failure
& collapse as its chief outcome. Broad war often follows. How anybody could
think the sharing of bank and oil executives
with federal government leadership as a move toward progress on the
evolution chart, that is moronic. Surely, it is about political
power and corruption. The military budget is sacred, and private contractor
deals are made without bids. Now five to six energy
giants will hog all Iraqi oil service contracts. The terrorism topic is
untouchable for dispute. A Coup d'Etat is in progress as the
Wall Street conmen and fraud kings have taken implicit control of the
USGovt. This will be recognized in time, even while
resistance is evident. To me the ongoing drama smacks of a comedy of
corruption. US citizens are in shock & awe, while
foreigners are aghast in disgust.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2008/0924.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 10:12 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"