Frugal Living: 18 new messages in 11 topics

Friday, September 26, 2008

18 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Opinions on dentist conduct
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a04b6ef8411a621?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 2:38 pm
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

muzician21@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sep 25, 12:58 pm, Dartos <tuthjoc...@myturbonet.com> wrote:
>> You seem a little edgy and easily offended.
>
>
> There's no question I'm not in a dentist lovin' frame of mind at the
> moment, phrases like "Well, go back to the DMO dudes if you don't like
> it" I believe to be coming from a severely wrong-minded mentality.
>
> Oh wait, you and Fawks are one and the same, same e-mail, different
> NNTP. Ah ha...
>
>> Also, just because you pay your dental bill does not mean you 'own'
>> the dentist. I'm not at your beck and call.
>
> It doesn't make them my bitch, but it does mean I'm paying for
> ownership of time, good-faith, honest application of skills and
> consideration. You give someone money, you're supposed to get
> something for it. I believe this goes beyond the technical application
> of dentistry. I realize you're hypothesizing but I believe it would be
> hyperbole to characterize my particular expectations as unreasonable.
>
> I also believe it's possible that some people can fall into a mindset
> where they see their customers as so many cash cows in the cattle gate
> and their focus is going through the process as uninterrupted as
> possible and the "peripheral" stuff becomes less of a consideration. I
> didn't have 20 questions about toothpaste as someone else described, I
> had a specific short, technical question. I believe wanting to be
> informed is within the scope of reason. I have a somewhat technical
> mind, some 80-year old grandma or housewife might not think of the
> ramifications of a particular type of filling, I did.
>
> They're in a particular circumstance where there's not a lot of
> accountability. They don't have a boss to register a complaint with,
> as I understand it the professional oversight groups are something of
> a joke. Unless they really screw up there's no litigation option. I
> found out later that one of the previous DMO dentists I had gone to
> has a long-running rep in the area as being a hack, yet he's still in
> business, which I've heard is a common tale with DMO dentists.
>
> And once he's sitting on a healthy bankroll he may feel less
> motivation to be that concerned. I don't know the guy outside of his
> office, he may have been a prick all along and just hid it well.
>
> And they're also in a position to milk the situation. They say you
> need a root canal. I don't ever see any closeups of where the decay
> has intruded on the root. Or how do I know he doesn't do a filling in
> such a way as to promote future decay and a year or so down the road
> "oopsie, you need a crown/root canal". *Cha-ching* All the while
> people know them as good old Dr. X, he gets civic awards, is on the
> city beautification committee, etc.
>
>
>> I will bend over
>> backwards to deliver comfortable, quality care and treat you
>> like I would like to be treated. Abuse that relationship from
>> your side, and things might change.
>
>
> I don't find wanting to ask a question that would take 2 - 3 minutes
> tops to resolve to be abusing a relationship or in any way overly
> demanding. I believe well within reason to someone who's willing to
> "bend over backwards" to treat his patients well.

You sound quite reasonably peeved. Your expectations are in no way out
of line.
At the same time, I've known Dartos through his posting history here
for almost 10 years. There is not a chance in hell that you'd be
treated by him in the way you were treated in your recent dental
experience. By the same token, all of us (Dartos and I are near
contemporaries--we've both been doing this 30 years or more) have had
patients who just suck the life forces out of us. You may take comfort
that, just as there are patients who hate nothing more than the dental
experince, there are patients whose presence on the appointment provoke
instant diarrhea in the dental staff.
This is a great big world--there are good and bad people everywhere.
Try and find the good ones.

Steve

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:51 pm
From: Newbie@bix.nex

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:35:24 -0500, Dartos <tuthjockey@myturbonet.com>
wrote:

>You used to really 'know' your physician, dentist,
>pharmacist, optomitrist, butcher, dry cleaner, shoe repairman, barber,
>grocer, banker, mechanic, etc.

They also used to make shoes worth repairing !

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:56 pm
From: Newbie@bix.nex

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:38:21 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote:

> This is a great big world--there are good and bad people everywhere.
>Try and find the good ones.
>
>Steve

Nope, they are all bad.

Some are just not as bad as others.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: martha
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccc037dde74d13f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 2:44 pm
From: manny

On Sep 16, 8:54�pm, ghes...@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston) wrote:
> In article <6PCdneqQponHRVLVnZ2dnUVZ_hydn...@earthlink.com>,
>
> Derald �<der...@invalid.net> wrote:
> >I'm certainly not much of a teevee person, much less a daytime teevee
> >person (well, except for "The Young and the Restless") but who else here
> >finds Martha Stewart absolutely fascinating? She has one of the most
> >finely-tuned, best controlled "type 'A'" personalities available to the
> >average voyeur-aficionado. Hell, I even watch her "Everyday Foods"
> >series that is presented by my local PBS affiliate....
>
> The primary feature of "Everyday Foods" is that Martha does _not_ appear
> in the show. Bear in mind that you're not seeing all the screaming and
> abuse that she's famous for on the set.
>
> Gary
>
> --
> Gary Heston �ghes...@hiwaay.net �http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
>
> Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
> followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

All I know after watching Everyday Foods on PBS with and without
Martha. After she appeared on the show last season after John (the
baker) left the show to open his own bakery, the show seems to have
gone down hill. I do enjoy her on her own program on Channel 4 shown
in the affternoon weekdays here in the Los Angeles area, when I get
the chance to see the program. Martha would be best to just leave the
Everyday Foods program alone without her help.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: VIDEO: Ron Paul Talks About the Bailout
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ecd7ed3cd444e42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:00 pm
From: LOVE Europe HATE the EU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AW-vsXCor8

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Financial crisis affecting you?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/13d6ead47b0461dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:23 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote

>>>> Unless you work in the finance industry or just bought an
>>>> overpriced house, are you affected? I feel the price of
>>>> oil more than the fall of Lehman Bros. and AIG.

>>> It's going to hurt everyone - eventually.

>> Not necessarily, most obviously if the bailout works.

>>> Even with the supposed bail-out proposed
>>> - there will be repercussions down the line

>> Yes, but that wont necessarily hurt everyone.

>>> - and the lower you are on the line - the harder it will hit.

>> Thats not right either. Those entirely dependant on welfare
>> and food stamps, and they are the lowest on the line apart
>> from the 'homeless' wont be affected at all except that
>> their entertainment will be disrupted by the bullshit etc.

> Guess I'm concerned about my Social Security check.

Sure.

> Wonder if that would be impacted.

Nope, not even if we see another great depression and I dont believe that will happen either.

The cost of the bailout is less than has been pissed against the wall in Iraq, perfectly affordable.

Not a patch on what was spent on WW2, the Marshall Plan and the
Cold War and Vietnam and the US clearly could afford all that fine.

Even if we do see another great depression, the effects on
someone like you wont be anything like the great depression was.

The most that might happen is stagnation like Japan saw for a decade recently when their
financial system imploded even more spectacularly than the US financial system may do.

What we'll actually see is a bailout very similar to the S&L fiasco
and few can even remember any significant downsides with that now.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 4:21 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6k2hb2F5qambU1@mid.individual.net...
> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
>
> >>>> Unless you work in the finance industry or just bought an
> >>>> overpriced house, are you affected? I feel the price of
> >>>> oil more than the fall of Lehman Bros. and AIG.
>
> >>> It's going to hurt everyone - eventually.
>
> >> Not necessarily, most obviously if the bailout works.
>
> >>> Even with the supposed bail-out proposed
> >>> - there will be repercussions down the line
>
> >> Yes, but that wont necessarily hurt everyone.
>
> >>> - and the lower you are on the line - the harder it will hit.
>
> >> Thats not right either. Those entirely dependant on welfare
> >> and food stamps, and they are the lowest on the line apart
> >> from the 'homeless' wont be affected at all except that
> >> their entertainment will be disrupted by the bullshit etc.
>
> > Guess I'm concerned about my Social Security check.
>
> Sure.
>
> > Wonder if that would be impacted.
>
> Nope, not even if we see another great depression and I dont believe that
will happen either.

that's good to know.
>
> The cost of the bailout is less than has been pissed against the wall in
Iraq, perfectly affordable.

I agree with that - the pissing away of funds in Iraq.
>
> Not a patch on what was spent on WW2, the Marshall Plan and the
> Cold War and Vietnam and the US clearly could afford all that fine.

I remember some of my life after WW2 - wasn;t bad at all. My parents were
not living high - but living comfortably - so of course I was as well.
>
> Even if we do see another great depression, the effects on
> someone like you wont be anything like the great depression was.

I wonder sometimes about people who consider my having only basic cable is a
sign of being 'poor'. As much as my physical condition allows - I am very
self sufficient - and would continue to be so. But would like to get
healthy enough to get some chickens.
>
> The most that might happen is stagnation like Japan saw for a decade
recently when their
> financial system imploded even more spectacularly than the US financial
system may do.
>
> What we'll actually see is a bailout very similar to the S&L fiasco
> and few can even remember any significant downsides with that now.
>
>

Perhaps it's because of all the media crying 'wolf' that people seem to look
at the doom and gloom outlook.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 6:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote

>>>>>> Unless you work in the finance industry or just bought
>>>>>> an overpriced house, are you affected? I feel the price
>>>>>> of oil more than the fall of Lehman Bros. and AIG.

>>>>> It's going to hurt everyone - eventually.

>>>> Not necessarily, most obviously if the bailout works.

>>>>> Even with the supposed bail-out proposed
>>>>> - there will be repercussions down the line

>>>> Yes, but that wont necessarily hurt everyone.

>>>>> - and the lower you are on the line - the harder it will hit.

>>>> Thats not right either. Those entirely dependant on welfare
>>>> and food stamps, and they are the lowest on the line apart
>>>> from the 'homeless' wont be affected at all except that
>>>> their entertainment will be disrupted by the bullshit etc.

>>> Guess I'm concerned about my Social Security check.

>> Sure.

>>> Wonder if that would be impacted.

>> Nope, not even if we see another great depression
>> and I dont believe that will happen either.

> that's good to know.

>> The cost of the bailout is less than has been
>> pissed against the wall in Iraq, perfectly affordable.

> I agree with that - the pissing away of funds in Iraq.

>> Not a patch on what was spent on WW2, the Marshall Plan and the
>> Cold War and Vietnam and the US clearly could afford all that fine.

> I remember some of my life after WW2 - wasn;t bad at all.

Yeah, it was fine.

> My parents were not living high - but living comfortably

Mine too, after both of them were involved in WW2 personally themselves.

> - so of course I was as well.

I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for WW2.

>> Even if we do see another great depression, the effects on
>> someone like you wont be anything like the great depression was.

> I wonder sometimes about people who consider
> my having only basic cable is a sign of being 'poor'.

Sure, some do.

> As much as my physical condition allows - I am very self sufficient - and would
> continue to be so. But would like to get healthy enough to get some chickens.

Yeah, animals can be a problem if there isnt anyone that
can look after them if thing go thru a bad patch health wise.

>> The most that might happen is stagnation like Japan saw for
>> a decade recently when their financial system imploded even
>> more spectacularly than the US financial system may do.

>> What we'll actually see is a bailout very similar to the S&L fiasco
>> and few can even remember any significant downsides with that now.

> Perhaps it's because of all the media crying 'wolf' that
> people seem to look at the doom and gloom outlook.

Its more that its so easy to sack people in the US that produces that effect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: City reappraised our house up 31% !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8459c124a40d2583?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 3:49 pm
From: George Grapman

George wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>> I recently talked to someone with an unusual assessment issue. The
>> property straddles two town and it on a steep hill. The house is in
>> one town and the hill in another. It is unsafe to build anything on
>> the hill so it acts as an open space buffer yet the town containing
>> that area based their assessment on the value of the parcel where the
>> house is.
>> After two years of fighting the owner invited the officials to view
>> the property in person and after a visit they agreed that she had been
>> overcharged.
>>>
>>>
>
> Our county was just reassessed by the "world renowned" century 21 and
> there are numerous instances like that. For example my neighbor owns a
> very irregular adjoining property that according to zoning isn't
> suitable for any building yet they valued it as a standard building lot.
> Or my buddy had to buy a adjoining property to place a sand mound system
> because no place on his property was suitable. Sand mounds are really
> common and distinctive because of the obvious mound and vent pipes but
> they decided that it too was a building lot.

By the way, this person also has two easements,one over private
property ( a hotel) and the other over public land (a public works
storage area) to access her house.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay - fees go up to 19% of listing price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/31e9404b0a6e5dfd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 4:31 pm
From: curly'q

Al Bundy wrote:
>
> curly'q wrote:
>
>> I was weened on those things.
>>
>> Speaking of frugal, there are some recipes online for fairly authentic,
>> according to the reviews, sliders. This thread got me interested and I
>> will be whipping up a batch next week. I'll post a cost breakdown and
>> taste comments.
>>
>>
>> Curly
>
> Be sure you use the straight SAE 40 weight and no synthetic oil.
>
> Larry

Urban myth, but not that far off. The real secret ingredient is strained
beef baby food.

Moe

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 5:38 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <cbd7296b-e880-4aad-ac71-d5a9ff5e216d@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>OhioGuy wrote:
>> I just noticed a major hike in the fees to list items on Ebay. I had
>> listed a few DVD's over the past month, and noticed the fees jumped.

>> Including listing and final value, plus Paypal, to list a fixed price "buy
>> it now" listing costs 19% of the price you hopefully sell at - just barely
>> shy of 1/5.

>> Man, I remember back when it was called Auctionweb, and it only cost a 10c
>> listing fee to sell things on there.

Some time in October, eBay is disallowing the use of checks or money orders
for payment "to reduce fraud", forcing people to use PayPal, credit cards,
or local pickup. As checks or money orders are the only two payment methods
I'm willing to use, this will effectively eliminate my use of the site.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/23/ebay_payment_policy_change_us/

Oddly enough, I've seen very few reports of fraud via check/MO; all the
complaints I see are related to PayPal. Of course, this can't possibly have
anything to do with the little detail that eBay doesn't collect a fee from
checks or money orders. Certainly not.

>I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
>$1 at White Castle.

Ah, yes; when I could fill up a 16 gallon tank for less than $4, and
A&W sold real root beer in frosty glass mugs. Good onion rings, too.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vote now against the bailout: online at www.congress.org
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0bc1711aacbebc5d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 4:51 pm
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Sep 25, 1:13 pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Look at this margin: NINE TO ONE AGAINST THE BAILOUT! I don't care
> if the margin of error is 25%, that kind of lopsided number only means
> one thing: the vast majority of Americans are against the bailout.
>
> Go to the website below and cast your vote today. This is an .org
> website so it has more clout than a .com website.
>
> RL
>
> SHOULD CONGRESS BAILOUT WALL STREET TO HELP MAIN STREET?
> The Bush Administration proposes a $700 billion bailout to restore
> confidence in the economic system so banks start lending again.
> Without that, many other banks and businesses (and the jobs and
> mortgages) will fail they say. Critics say we shouldn't reward their
> bad decisions. Democrats say the plan needs oversight, homeowner
> protections and caps on executives' salaries. What do you think? Act
> quickly as the Administration wants a vote within days. Consider a
> hand delivered letter with Extra Impact. Start by picking your view in
> our Action Poll. (72,788 messages thus far)
>
> 9% say I Support the $700 Billion Mortgage Bailout
> 91% say I Oppose the $700 Billion Mortgage Bailout
>
> http://www.congress.org/congressorg/headlines.tt

mitch

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 8:21 pm
From: huey.callison@gmail.com

On Sep 25, 1:13?pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Look at this margin: ?NINE TO ONE AGAINST THE BAILOUT! ?I don't care
> if the margin of error is 25%, that kind of lopsided number only means
> one thing: ?the vast majority of Americans are against the bailout.
>
> Go to the website below and cast your vote today. ?This is an .org
> website so it has more clout than a .com website.

You obviously don't understand how internet domain registration works.

--
Huey

==============================================================================
TOPIC: nice messenger
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76d0455ff113a144?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 6:30 pm
From: "yassgal6@googlemail.com"

live messenger

The specifications of light and beautiful and you can mail,
Google ,Yahoo , msn ,hotmail ,live and moor

Experience is worth following linkage

http://www.zshare.net/download/1922067682a774bb

Have fun time

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dual SIM car adaptor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c0e044dcf88ff5cf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 6:58 pm
From: "Raj"

Where can I buy something like this?
http://www.duosim.com/instructions.html

I am in Bay Area, California.

Anyone seen anything like this is in a regular store?

Don't want to order online.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do Warehouse Stores Really Save You Money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/512851cfe1d68efd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 7:59 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two dozen
frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop and buy
them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7987958945d58f864a&siteid=nwhpf&sguid=LlOmLCZmMkSOlLZa0_8Pmw

i'm generally a disciplined shopper.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Corruption, Whispers & Receivership
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/130a022f9ac2d520?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 8:38 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

The United States has transformed itself, the most radical degraded aspects
having occurred in the last eight years.
Many might object or cringe at repeated mention of the Fascist Business
Model implemented by the Clinton Administration,
and carried to extreme by the Bush II Administration. It is a harsh
departure from Beacon of Freedom. Too bad, fact of life!
This merger of state and big business in the midst of a climax, the biggest
display of exported financial toxin in modern history,
and the disintegration of the financial structure for the nation owning the
world reserve currency. The Fascist Business Model
has criminal fraud & corruption as its chief characteristic, alienation &
resentment as its chief foreign effect, and systemic failure
& collapse as its chief outcome. Broad war often follows. How anybody could
think the sharing of bank and oil executives
with federal government leadership as a move toward progress on the
evolution chart, that is moronic. Surely, it is about political
power and corruption. The military budget is sacred, and private contractor
deals are made without bids. Now five to six energy
giants will hog all Iraqi oil service contracts. The terrorism topic is
untouchable for dispute. A Coup d'Etat is in progress as the
Wall Street conmen and fraud kings have taken implicit control of the
USGovt. This will be recognized in time, even while
resistance is evident. To me the ongoing drama smacks of a comedy of
corruption. US citizens are in shock & awe, while
foreigners are aghast in disgust.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2008/0924.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 25 2008 10:12 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <%OYCk.1532$Jw.215@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The United States has transformed itself, the most radical degraded aspects
> having occurred in the last eight years.

First, don't complain to me. Go find the people that voted for
Mr. Bush and kept him in office even after we had 4 years of his
stuff.

Second, posting now is a little late. Where were you when we
had our first clue when Bush Sr. let slip the "new world order"
that he was establishing.

Third, none of this should come as any kind of surprise if you
had read and understood the book. Not the bible, but the book
that is the manual for how to be a good conservative. That is
a book called the light and the glory. Read it, and everything
will suddenly make sense to you.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

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Friday, September 26, 2008

18 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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