Frugal Living: Dec 13, 2007

Thursday, December 13, 2007

24 new messages in 16 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Milenko Kindl kf49i09fi09if3fk30f
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a1cbde7a6270d3d8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 12:11 am
From: Milenko Kindl

UNITED NATIONS - The U.N. chief vowed Wednesday that acts of terrorism
such as the twin car bombings in Algiers will not deter the United
Nations from its mission of helping others most in need.
ADVERTISEMENT

With nine U.N. workers among the dead, the attack was the worst
against staff of the world body since an August 2003 bombing at U.N.
headquarters in Baghdad killed 22, including the top U.N. envoy in
Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello.

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, speaking from a climate conference in
Bali, Indonesia, via a live video address to the General Assembly,
said the U.N. would not be prevented from doing its work by "this most
recent attack."

"Our colleagues in Algiers would ask no less," Ban said, drawing
applause from delegates.

The mood was somber and the U.N. flag outside the New York
headquarters flew at half-staff immediately after the bombings.

In October 2003, under then-U.N. chief Kofi Annan, the United Nations
pulled out of Iraq after the bombings at U.N. headquarters in Baghdad
and a series of attacks on humanitarian workers.

Ban said he felt "shock and outrage" at the bombings in Algiers. An al-
Qaida-linked group claimed responsibility.

He urged all nations to unite against terrorism, "the scourge of our
times."

"This attack on the U.N. is an attack on us all and our highest
ideals," Ban said. "I call on this General Assembly to stand united.
We must all condemn this deed, just as we must work, together, to
bring its vile perpetrators to justice."

He said he spoke to Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika to express
his condolences and ask him to take all necessary measures to ensure
the security of U.N. personnel.

Ban said he also sent several top aides to Algiers, including Kemal
Dervis, the head of the U.N. Development Program.

About 175 U.N. employees worked in Algeria, including about 115
locally based staff, U.N. deputy spokeswoman Marie Okabe said.

Before Tuesday, more than 250 U.N. civilian employees had been killed
either by violence or in accidents since January 1992, when such
record-keeping began, U.N. officials said. Those figures do not
include the deaths of U.N. staff from peacekeeping missions.

Milenko Kindl
Banja Luka
Banjaluka

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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 1:05 am
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== 1 of 3 ==
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== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 7:49 am
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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 8:13 am
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: WTC Towers: The Case For Controlled Demolition
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/702a42bdcf37f25e?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 4:42 am
From: schoenfeld.one@gmail.com

WTC Towers: The Case For Controlled Demolition
By Herman Schoenfeld

In this article we show that "top-down" controlled demolition
accurately accounts for the collapse times of the World Trade Center
towers. A top-down controlled demolition can be simply characterized
as a "pancake collapse" of a building missing its support columns.
This demolition profile requires that the support columns holding a
floor be destroyed just before that floor is collided with by the
upper falling masses. The net effect is a pancake-style collapse at
near free fall speed.

This model predicts a WTC 1 collapse time of 11.38 seconds, and a WTC
2 collapse time of 9.48 seconds. Those times accurately match the
seismographic data of those events.1 Refer to equations (1.9) and
(1.10) for details.

It should be noted that this model differs massively from the "natural
pancake collapse" in that the geometrical composition of the structure
is not considered (as it is physically destroyed). A natural pancake
collapse features a diminishing velocity rapidly approaching rest due
the resistance offered by the columns and surrounding "steel mesh".

DEMOLITION MODEL

A top-down controlled demolition of a building is considered as
follows

1. An initial block of j floors commences to free fall.

2. The floor below the collapsing block has its support structures
disabled just prior the collision with the block.

3. The collapsing block merges with the momentarily levitating floor,
increases in mass, decreases in velocity (but preserves momentum), and
continues to free fall.

4. If not at ground floor, goto step 2.

Let j be the number of floors in the initial set of collapsing floors.
Let N be the number of remaining floors to collapse.
Let h be the average floor height.
Let g be the gravitational field strength at ground-level.
Let T be the total collapse time.

Using the elementary motion equation

distance = (initial velocity) * time + 1/2 * acceleration * time^2

We solve for the time taken by the k'th floor to free fall the height
of one floor

[1.1] t_k=(-u_k+(u_k^2+2gh))/g

where u_k is the initial velocity of the k'th collapsing floor.

The total collapse time is the sum of the N individual free fall times

[1.2] T = sum(k=0)^N (-u_k+(u_k^2+2gh))/g

Now the mass of the k'th floor at the point of collapse is the mass of
itself (m) plus the mass of all the floors collapsed before it (k-1)m
plus the mass on the initial collapsing block jm.

[1.3] m_k=m+(k-1)m+jm =(j+k)m

If we let u_k denote the initial velocity of the k'th collapsing
floor, the final velocity reached by that floor prior to collision
with its below floor is

[1.4] v_k=SQRT(u_k^2+2gh)

which follows from the elementary equation of motion

(final velocity)^2 = (initial velocity)^2 + 2 * (acceleration) *
(distance)

Conservation of momentum demands that the initial momentum of the k'th
floor equal the final momemtum of the (k-1)'th floor.

[1.5] m_k u_k = m_(k-1) v_(k-1)

Substituting (1.3) and (1.4) into (1.5)
[1.6] (j + k)m u_k= (j + k - 1)m SQRT(u_(k-1)^2+ 2gh)

Solving for the initial velocity u_k

[1.7] u_k=(j + k - 1)/(j + k) SQRT(u_(k-1)^2+2gh)

Which is a recurrence equation with base value

[1.8] u_0=0

The WTC towers were 417 meters tall and had 110 floors. Tower 1 began
collapsing on the 93rd floor. Making substitutions N=93, j=17 , g=9.8
into (1.2) and (1.7) gives

[1.9] WTC 1 Collapse Time = sum(k=0)^93 (-u_k+(u_k^2+74.28))/9.8 =
11.38 sec
where
u_k=(16+ k)/(17+ k ) SQRT(u_(k-1)^2+74.28) ;/ u_0=0

Tower 2 began collapsing on the 77th floor. Making substitutions N=77,
j=33 , g=9.8 into (1.2) and (1.7) gives

[1.10] WTC 2 Collapse Time =sum(k=0)^77 (-u_k+(u_k^2+74.28))/9.8 =
9.48 sec
Where
u_k=(32+k)/(33+k) SQRT(u_(k-1)^2+74.28) ;/ u_0=0

REFERENCES

"Seismic Waves Generated By Aircraft Impacts and Building Collapses at
World Trade Center ", http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010911_WTC/WTC_LDEO_KIM.pdf

APPENDIX A: HASKELL SIMULATION PROGRAM

This function returns the gravitational field strength in SI units.

> g :: Double
> g = 9.8

This function calculates the total time for a top-down demolition.
Parameters:
_H - the total height of building
_N - the number of floors in building
_J - the floor number which initiated the top-down cascade (the 0'th
floor being the ground floor)

> cascadeTime :: Double -> Double -> Double -> Double
> cascadeTime _H _N _J = sum [ (- (u k) + sqrt( (u k)^2 + 2*g*h))/g | k<-[0..n]]
> where
> j = _N - _J
> n = _N - j
> h = _H/_N
> u 0 = 0
> u k = (j + k - 1)/(j + k) * sqrt( (u (k-1))^2 + 2*g*h )

Simulates a top-down demolition of WTC 1 in SI units.

> wtc1 :: Double
> wtc1 = cascadeTime 417 110 93

Simulates a top-down demolition of WTC 2 in SI units.

> wtc2 :: Double
> wtc2 = cascadeTime 417 110 77

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 7:38 am
From: . >

>
>
>

Did British socialite give birth to Adolf Hitler's love child...and is he
alive in the UK today? Who is he/she?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=501638&in_page_id=1770

If the theory holds true, then the Fuhrer's son or daughter could still be
living in somewhere in Britain today.

Will the off-spring have a claim on the paternal estate?

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 8:07 am
From: "Janitor of Lunacy"

". >" <Snowey <snoddy@snoweyville.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ick2m3h1mtd5ufqhjs4frie6jnfiiq2evj@4ax.com...
> >
>>
>>
>
> Did British socialite give birth to Adolf Hitler's love child...and is he
> alive in the UK today? Who is he/she?
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=501638&in_page_id=1770
>
> If the theory holds true, then the Fuhrer's son or daughter could still be
> living in somewhere in Britain today.
>
> Will the off-spring have a claim on the paternal estate?

I seem to remember a Mr Hilter contesting the North Minehead by-election in
the early 1970s. Could this be him? His election agent was Mr Ron
Vibbentrop, if I remember correctly.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 10:03 am
From: Periander <4rubbish@britwar.co.uk>

schoenfeld.one@gmail.com wrote in news:c019978d-9554-4f34-bd28-b54d2e01b822
@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

> WTC Towers: The Case For Controlled Demolition
> By Herman Schoenfeld
>
> In this article we show that "top-down" controlled demolition

Idiot, for fuck's sake everyone now knows that it was the Vogons!

Monkey's and typwriters eh? What would we do without them?

Regards or otherwise,

Periander

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== 1 of 1 ==
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Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Guardian: Carbon myths
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/22b3fd65a2728a83?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 7:09 am
From: Faubillaud

Ethical living
Carbon myths

Recycling and banning plastic bags are all very well, but they won't save
the planet. Instead, we should fly less, go vegan and insulate the loft,
says Chris Goodall

* Chris Goodall
* The Guardian,
* Thursday December 13 2007

The global warming consequences of our personal actions are usually
invisible to us. We have no easy means of knowing how our way of life
generates carbon dioxide and other climate-changing gases. It is far from
obvious that it takes more energy to produce a paper bag than its plastic
equivalent, or that extra loft insulation usually reduces gas consumption
more than solar panels. Unsurprisingly, this means that most of us are
ignorant about what really matters, which makes us vulnerable to comforting
half-truths. These myths are a problem in themselves because they discourage
us from addressing the important sources of emissions. But our ignorance
also encourages businesses to promote goods and services that offer little
or no carbon-saving.

So, for example, when British people are asked in surveys about the actions
they can take to be more responsible about global warming, domestic
recycling always comes top. Reducing air travel comes far down the list. But
the global warming impact of our Mediterranean holidays is hundreds of times
more than the toll from not recycling. We see the plastics going into the
dustbin every week, but pollutants from jet engines are hidden. So people
who carefully sort their recycling every week continue to fly. And
businesses that are trying to be ethical devote more effort to reducing
packaging than getting their employees to travel less.

We like our myths. Suggesting that British league football isn't the best in
the world or that Monty Python wasn't always funny is a quick way to start
an argument and lose friends. But some of our cherished carbon myths are
dangerously counterproductive. Here is my list of the most common:

I like low-energy lightbulbs. In fact, I sell them at the local farmers'
market to offset my personal carbon sins. But even if a householder replaces
all their bulbs, the total impact on yearly electricity consumption is
likely to be no more than about 400 units (kWh) of electricity. A new plasma
TV bought at the same time will outweigh any energy savings. The government
talks about banning old-style bulbs, but no one dares mention the explosive
impact on energy consumption of the latest generation of large TVs and games
consoles. The power used by these monsters embarrasses their manufacturers
and the online brochures usually omit all details of electricity use. I
couldn't find a single retailer that dares to list the power consumption of
plasma TVs. The best rule for cutting home electricity consumption? Keep
your old TV. If you still feel the need to buy something, get a new
super-efficient fridge.

Nothing arouses fury like the disposable plastic supermarket bag. Gordon
Brown singled them out in his first speech on climate change as prime
minister. The widespread hatred now extends to almost all plastic food
packaging. But although plastic bags are detestable, they are almost
irrelevant to climate change. Each of us uses about 2kg a year of shopping
bags, and they perform multiple useful functions in the home after they have
carried our shopping from the supermarket. Food packaging of all types is no
more than 5% of the weight of our groceries. Wasted food, which rots in
landfill and generates methane, is a far more serious cause of global
warming. Rather than getting our retailers to strip the 3g of protective
polythene from our cucumbers, we need to concentrate on reducing the 30% of
food that goes to waste every week.

There is nothing wrong with hybrid petrol/electric cars. But they are an
extraordinarily expensive way of avoiding emissions. The Toyota Prius may be
lovely, but its emissions are no better than the latest generation of small
diesels, which cost little more than half the price. Buy a small car instead
and spend the savings on insulating your walls. It will have far more
effect. Worried about the effect on your status of driving a small car? Buy
an electric vehicle and people will simply think of you as eccentric.

It makes sense to avoid unnecessary transport of food. Local food is fresher
and probably healthier, and your purchase contributes to the local economy.
But food transport, unless it is by air, is usually a relatively small part
of a meal's carbon impact. Reducing the amount of meat you eat has far more
effect than deciding to buy locally. A kilo of beef from the farm next door
will have 50 times the global warming effect of a can of beans shipped from
Canada. Taking a few steps towards a vegan diet will reduce carbon emissions
far more than local purchasing. Avoiding meat and also buying locally is
better still.

Politicians extol the virtues of domestic generation of electricity. The
Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have committed themselves to paying us
45p a unit for electricity from the solar panels on our roof, about 10 times
the wholesale price paid to the large, coal-fired Drax power station, in
North Yorkshire. Microgeneration may be fashionable, but it is an
astonishingly expensive way of reducing emissions. Less glamorous, but more
effective, would be a plan to put a £20 note in the centre of every roll of
loft insulation. British houses are the worst insulated in northern Europe
and subsidised insulation would cut emissions far more cheaply than
encouraging wind turbines or solar photovoltaic panels

Myth 1 Eco lightbulbs are the best way to save electricity at home
Myth 2 Flying is responsible for only 2% of carbon dioxide emissions
Myth 3 All packaging is wicked
Myth 4 Hybrid cars are the way forward
Myth 5 Avoid food miles
Myth 6 Microgeneration is a good way for Britain to cut emissions

· Chris Goodall is the author of How to Live a Low Carbon Life (Earthscan)
and founder of carboncommentary.com

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/13/ethicalliving.carbonfootpr
ints

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 8:47 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Faubillaud" <faubillaud@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C386FBC5.E9E1%faubillaud@hotmail.com...
> Ethical living
> Carbon myths

the big one is that humans are causing global warming.
it's the sun. it's surface is getting more active. this
planet has been warmer in the past.

global warming: just another way to scare you into submission.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 9:49 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Faubillaud <faubillaud@hotmail.com> wrote

> Ethical living
> Carbon myths

> Recycling and banning plastic bags are all very well, but they won't
> save the planet. Instead, we should fly less, go vegan and insulate
> the loft, says Chris Goodall

And you could just cut to the chase and kill yourself thoughtfully too.

Dont make a mess.

> * Chris Goodall
> * The Guardian,
> * Thursday December 13 2007
>
> The global warming consequences of our personal actions are usually
> invisible to us. We have no easy means of knowing how our way of life
> generates carbon dioxide and other climate-changing gases. It is far
> from obvious that it takes more energy to produce a paper bag than
> its plastic equivalent, or that extra loft insulation usually reduces
> gas consumption more than solar panels. Unsurprisingly, this means
> that most of us are ignorant about what really matters, which makes
> us vulnerable to comforting half-truths. These myths are a problem in
> themselves because they discourage us from addressing the important
> sources of emissions. But our ignorance also encourages businesses to
> promote goods and services that offer little or no carbon-saving.
>
> So, for example, when British people are asked in surveys about the
> actions they can take to be more responsible about global warming,
> domestic recycling always comes top. Reducing air travel comes far
> down the list. But the global warming impact of our Mediterranean
> holidays is hundreds of times more than the toll from not recycling.
> We see the plastics going into the dustbin every week, but pollutants
> from jet engines are hidden. So people who carefully sort their
> recycling every week continue to fly. And businesses that are trying
> to be ethical devote more effort to reducing packaging than getting
> their employees to travel less.
>
> We like our myths. Suggesting that British league football isn't the
> best in the world or that Monty Python wasn't always funny is a quick
> way to start an argument and lose friends. But some of our cherished
> carbon myths are dangerously counterproductive. Here is my list of
> the most common:
>
> I like low-energy lightbulbs. In fact, I sell them at the local
> farmers' market to offset my personal carbon sins. But even if a
> householder replaces all their bulbs, the total impact on yearly
> electricity consumption is likely to be no more than about 400 units
> (kWh) of electricity. A new plasma TV bought at the same time will
> outweigh any energy savings. The government talks about banning
> old-style bulbs, but no one dares mention the explosive impact on
> energy consumption of the latest generation of large TVs and games
> consoles. The power used by these monsters embarrasses their
> manufacturers and the online brochures usually omit all details of
> electricity use. I couldn't find a single retailer that dares to list
> the power consumption of plasma TVs. The best rule for cutting home
> electricity consumption? Keep your old TV. If you still feel the need
> to buy something, get a new super-efficient fridge.
>
> Nothing arouses fury like the disposable plastic supermarket bag.
> Gordon Brown singled them out in his first speech on climate change
> as prime minister. The widespread hatred now extends to almost all
> plastic food packaging. But although plastic bags are detestable,
> they are almost irrelevant to climate change. Each of us uses about
> 2kg a year of shopping bags, and they perform multiple useful
> functions in the home after they have carried our shopping from the
> supermarket. Food packaging of all types is no more than 5% of the
> weight of our groceries. Wasted food, which rots in landfill and
> generates methane, is a far more serious cause of global warming.
> Rather than getting our retailers to strip the 3g of protective
> polythene from our cucumbers, we need to concentrate on reducing the
> 30% of food that goes to waste every week.
>
> There is nothing wrong with hybrid petrol/electric cars. But they are
> an extraordinarily expensive way of avoiding emissions. The Toyota
> Prius may be lovely, but its emissions are no better than the latest
> generation of small diesels, which cost little more than half the
> price. Buy a small car instead and spend the savings on insulating
> your walls. It will have far more effect. Worried about the effect on
> your status of driving a small car? Buy an electric vehicle and
> people will simply think of you as eccentric.
>
> It makes sense to avoid unnecessary transport of food. Local food is
> fresher and probably healthier, and your purchase contributes to the
> local economy. But food transport, unless it is by air, is usually a
> relatively small part of a meal's carbon impact. Reducing the amount
> of meat you eat has far more effect than deciding to buy locally. A
> kilo of beef from the farm next door will have 50 times the global
> warming effect of a can of beans shipped from Canada. Taking a few
> steps towards a vegan diet will reduce carbon emissions far more than
> local purchasing. Avoiding meat and also buying locally is better
> still.
>
> Politicians extol the virtues of domestic generation of electricity.
> The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have committed themselves to
> paying us 45p a unit for electricity from the solar panels on our
> roof, about 10 times the wholesale price paid to the large,
> coal-fired Drax power station, in North Yorkshire. Microgeneration
> may be fashionable, but it is an astonishingly expensive way of
> reducing emissions. Less glamorous, but more effective, would be a
> plan to put a £20 note in the centre of every roll of loft
> insulation. British houses are the worst insulated in northern Europe
> and subsidised insulation would cut emissions far more cheaply than
> encouraging wind turbines or solar photovoltaic panels
>
> Myth 1 Eco lightbulbs are the best way to save electricity at home
> Myth 2 Flying is responsible for only 2% of carbon dioxide emissions
> Myth 3 All packaging is wicked
> Myth 4 Hybrid cars are the way forward
> Myth 5 Avoid food miles
> Myth 6 Microgeneration is a good way for Britain to cut emissions
>
> · Chris Goodall is the author of How to Live a Low Carbon Life
> (Earthscan) and founder of carboncommentary.com
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/13/ethicalliving.carbonfootpr
> ints

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HYUNDAI WARRANTY
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef493d1b2fffa985?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 7:44 am
From: "ROBERTMARKMAN@SBCGLOBAL.NET"

On Dec 12, 5:27 pm, ra...@vt.edu wrote:
> ROBERTMARK...@SBCGLOBAL.NET <ROBERTMARK...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > I certainly believe that the dealer should be more expert at
> > diagnosing and handlingHyundaiproblems than Auto Zone. That's why I
>
> It seems to me you should have taken the car to a differentHyundai
> dealership for a second opinion while it was still inwarranty.
> I have had an alternator that tested OK that was killing batteries
> in a Nissan once. So it is possible the alternator has a problem,
> but there are occasional bad batteries that go bad way too soon.
>
> So far, you've had one new battery go bad after the original, and
> you don't say how long the original lasted if it was 4 or 5 years
> old then that is about average. Not great, but not terrible either.
>
> Without knowing what tests the dealer and Autozone did, and what
> they are basing their opinions on, I won't guess who is correct.
> A good independent mechanic might be a better choice to sort this
> out correctly.
>
> As far asHyundaiwarrantygoes, the dealers in this area have
> treated my daughter very well and even replaced light bulbs under
> the bumper-to-bumperwarranty. She has not had any trouble with
> her Elantra gettingwarrantywork, though it has needed very little
> and has been quite a reliable car for her.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.

I took my car back to Red McCombs because this is where I bought and
serviced the vehicle. I had complete confidence in the dealership. I
guess that I should have been more cautious. I am learning from this
experience.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 7:48 am
From: "ROBERTMARKMAN@SBCGLOBAL.NET"

On Dec 13, 12:35 am, Bill Rider <ple...@nospa.mnet> wrote:
> ra...@vt.edu wrote:
> > ROBERTMARK...@SBCGLOBAL.NET <ROBERTMARK...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >> I certainly believe that the dealer should be more expert at
> >> diagnosing and handlingHyundaiproblems than Auto Zone. That's why I
>
> > It seems to me you should have taken the car to a differentHyundai
> > dealership for a second opinion while it was still inwarranty.
> > I have had an alternator that tested OK that was killing batteries
> > in a Nissan once. So it is possible the alternator has a problem,
> > but there are occasional bad batteries that go bad way too soon.
>
> > So far, you've had one new battery go bad after the original, and
> > you don't say how long the original lasted if it was 4 or 5 years
> > old then that is about average. Not great, but not terrible either.
>
> > Without knowing what tests the dealer and Autozone did, and what
> > they are basing their opinions on, I won't guess who is correct.
> > A good independent mechanic might be a better choice to sort this
> > out correctly.
>
> > As far asHyundaiwarrantygoes, the dealers in this area have
> > treated my daughter very well and even replaced light bulbs under
> > the bumper-to-bumperwarranty. She has not had any trouble with
> > her Elantra gettingwarrantywork, though it has needed very little
> > and has been quite a reliable car for her.
>
> > Bill Ranck
> > Blacksburg, Va.
>
> If the Auto Zone guy said an Elantra alternator should put out only 13
> amps, it sounds as if he was checking the charging current at the
> battery. If the current was only 9 amps instead of the expected 13,
> that could be because the battery had been completely dead, as the OP
> said. A dead battery won't charge fast. I think it's because the
> electrolyte is weak.
>
> The dealer found different parasitic draws on different days. I ran
> into something like that. Unplugging the alternator from the regulator
> stopped the drain. I was pretty sure the alternator wasn't supposed to
> draw any current at all when the engine was off.
>
> Replacing the alternator stopped the battery from going dead sometimes.
> Whatever was wrong with it, apparently some nights it drew enough
> current to drain the battery overnight.
>
> I wonder what Auto Zone charges for a rebuilt alternator.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't even know if Auto Zone sells a Hyundai alternator. Even if
they do, I am not capable of working on the car and therefore have to
bring the car to a garage or dealership for both parts and labor.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sokmo Is Seo For Anything
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d3ef2ac444ad6391?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 9:19 am
From: cakapgold

Sokmo Is Seo For Anything

Seo, Tech, Web, How to, Reviews, Tips, Downloads, and Make Money
Online

http://sokmo.net/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www globwholesale com) Cheap Wholesale Evisu Red Monkey Jeans,G-star
Adidas Hoody, Lacoste Gucci T-shirts, Helen A&F Coat
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/412bdb1abf11a461?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 13 2007 9:59 am
From: globwholesale@126.com

Website: www .globwholesale. com
Email: globwholesale@yahoo.com.cn

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

20 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: coconut milk...what to do with opened can
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/780fcb05fc07769f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 11:55 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Boothbay" <harri85274@aol.com> wrote...
>I used just a little of it for sweet potato mash recipe. at a loss
> what to use the remainder for...any suggestions?

Freeze it. We usually use half a can in curry, and put the rest in a Tupperware
bowl in the freezer until next time...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 9:57 pm
From: Ron Peterson

On Dec 12, 7:13 am, Boothbay <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
> I used just a little of it for sweet potato mash recipe. at a loss
> what to use the remainder for...any suggestions?

Dump it down the drain. It's full of saturated fats that will clog
your arteries.

--
Ron

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Auto insurance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a52e023f23586b3c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 12:24 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Alpha83 wrote:
> Had an auto insurance question. My friend keeps his 2nd car in the
> garage - does not drive it any more. Does he need to have insurance
> on that. This is in CA.

In California, your car has to have insurance to be registered. If it
has nonoperative status, it does not need to be insured. Otherwise, the
state will cancel or not renew your car's registration if you cancel the
insurance and then it will cost bundles to get it insured again.
--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 12:35 pm
From: val189

On Dec 12, 1:35 pm, Alpha83 <taps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Had an auto insurance question. My friend keeps his 2nd car in the
> garage - does not drive it any more. Does he need to have insurance
> on that. This is in CA.
>
> Thanks.

Why is he keeping a second car - as a backup? If he intends to ever
drive it, then probably he should be insured. I'd sell or give it away
and gain the garage space.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 12:44 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:35:48 -0800 (PST), Alpha83 <tapsen7@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Had an auto insurance question. My friend keeps his 2nd car in the
>garage - does not drive it any more. Does he need to have insurance
>on that. This is in CA.

I have a car that I don't drive often. I keep comprehensive coverage
on it (fire, theft, vandalism, etc -- less than US$100/year) and
suspend (not cancel) the other coverage. I have had no problem
keeping it registered and licensed. When I want to drive it, I just
call my agent and have the suspended coverage reinstated. This is
with Allstate in Oregon. Your friend may or may not be able to do
something similar in his situation.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 3:17 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Dennis wrote:
>
> I have a car that I don't drive often. I keep comprehensive coverage
> on it (fire, theft, vandalism, etc -- less than US$100/year) and
> suspend (not cancel) the other coverage. I have had no problem
> keeping it registered and licensed. When I want to drive it, I just
> call my agent and have the suspended coverage reinstated. This is
> with Allstate in Oregon. Your friend may or may not be able to do
> something similar in his situation.

It's closer to $100 a month than $100 a year to keep the minimum legally
required insurance coverage (I think it's 5/15 liability or something
like that) on a car here, and to keep it registered, you have to have
that liability coverage, or they cancel your registration, and then you
have to pay penalties to re-register it.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 8:06 pm
From: Robert

On Dec 12, 10:35 am, Alpha83 <taps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Had an auto insurance question. My friend keeps his 2nd car in the
> garage - does not drive it any more. Does he need to have insurance
> on that. This is in CA.
>
> Thanks.

Call DMV

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Increase Your FICO Score
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/65d32ee83814449c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 12:34 pm
From: Snowbound

In article
<0f14b436-cd72-4108-9b6b-a891df46d378@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
DevBasic Marketing Support <devbasic@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ovation Law Firm is a premier provider of affordable
> and effective credit report repair services. Repair your
> credit report legally. Read about modern credit report
> repair and gain access to a legitimate credit repair firm.
>
> Visit web link below.
>
> http://www.illinois.devbasic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&
> Itemid=9

Hey, I just checked my FICO score for free thanks to the Hillis Class
Action settlement (thanks, litigation attorneys!). According to Equifax,
my FICO score is 809 as of last night.

Can your company help me repair it? Am I living too far below my means?
Do my finances lack risk? Perhaps if I paid a law firm named for a
guitar lots of my excess dollars, they could help me repair this dire
situation.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 1:18 pm
From: "ROBERTMARKMAN@SBCGLOBAL.NET"

On Dec 11, 9:54 pm, Brian Elfert <belf...@visi.com> wrote:
> "ROBERTMARK...@SBCGLOBAL.NET" <ROBERTMARK...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> >I had been hoping thatHyundaiwould replace the alternator under the
> >car'swarranty. Red McCombs had done a parisitic draw test, discovered
>
> Only your bumper to bumperwarrantywould cover the alternator. The
> powertrainwarrantywould not cover this.
>
> Your 5 year bumper to bumperwarrantyis probably over 5 years now unless
> you bought the car as a leftver 2002 model. Now, maybe you reported this
> before your 5 yearwarrantywas up. If yourwarrantywas up you can't
> expect them to fix it underwarranty.
>
> I don't know how much you drive, but these days a lot of people go over
> mileage long before the time is up. I was 2 1/2 years into a 3/26 yearwarrantyonce and the dealer was suprised I wasn't at 36,000 miles
> already.

My original request for warranty service was within the bumper to
bumper time and mileage parameters but Red McCombs apparently failed
to pick up on the problem, either then or now. As I said, this is now
apparently a dead issue and I will have to sink or swim on my own.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 3:27 pm
From: ranck@vt.edu

ROBERTMARKMAN@SBCGLOBAL.NET <ROBERTMARKMAN@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I certainly believe that the dealer should be more expert at
> diagnosing and handling Hyundai problems than Auto Zone. That's why I

It seems to me you should have taken the car to a different Hyundai
dealership for a second opinion while it was still in warranty.
I have had an alternator that tested OK that was killing batteries
in a Nissan once. So it is possible the alternator has a problem,
but there are occasional bad batteries that go bad way too soon.

So far, you've had one new battery go bad after the original, and
you don't say how long the original lasted if it was 4 or 5 years
old then that is about average. Not great, but not terrible either.

Without knowing what tests the dealer and Autozone did, and what
they are basing their opinions on, I won't guess who is correct.
A good independent mechanic might be a better choice to sort this
out correctly.

As far as Hyundai warranty goes, the dealers in this area have
treated my daughter very well and even replaced light bulbs under
the bumper-to-bumper warranty. She has not had any trouble with
her Elantra getting warranty work, though it has needed very little
and has been quite a reliable car for her.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 10:35 pm
From: Bill Rider

ranck@vt.edu wrote:
> ROBERTMARKMAN@SBCGLOBAL.NET <ROBERTMARKMAN@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I certainly believe that the dealer should be more expert at
>> diagnosing and handling Hyundai problems than Auto Zone. That's why I
>
> It seems to me you should have taken the car to a different Hyundai
> dealership for a second opinion while it was still in warranty.
> I have had an alternator that tested OK that was killing batteries
> in a Nissan once. So it is possible the alternator has a problem,
> but there are occasional bad batteries that go bad way too soon.
>
> So far, you've had one new battery go bad after the original, and
> you don't say how long the original lasted if it was 4 or 5 years
> old then that is about average. Not great, but not terrible either.
>
> Without knowing what tests the dealer and Autozone did, and what
> they are basing their opinions on, I won't guess who is correct.
> A good independent mechanic might be a better choice to sort this
> out correctly.
>
> As far as Hyundai warranty goes, the dealers in this area have
> treated my daughter very well and even replaced light bulbs under
> the bumper-to-bumper warranty. She has not had any trouble with
> her Elantra getting warranty work, though it has needed very little
> and has been quite a reliable car for her.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.

If the Auto Zone guy said an Elantra alternator should put out only 13
amps, it sounds as if he was checking the charging current at the
battery. If the current was only 9 amps instead of the expected 13,
that could be because the battery had been completely dead, as the OP
said. A dead battery won't charge fast. I think it's because the
electrolyte is weak.

The dealer found different parasitic draws on different days. I ran
into something like that. Unplugging the alternator from the regulator
stopped the drain. I was pretty sure the alternator wasn't supposed to
draw any current at all when the engine was off.

Replacing the alternator stopped the battery from going dead sometimes.
Whatever was wrong with it, apparently some nights it drew enough
current to drain the battery overnight.

I wonder what Auto Zone charges for a rebuilt alternator.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Work At Home - Forex trading - Low Investment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4ac68308f9da9050?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 5:56 pm
From: nagi54

Best Online Business - A Way to Build Wealth that's Open to Anyone.

Visit:-
http://www.freewebs.com/onlineprofit123/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: easy buy, easy sell
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8b951d1eb70f23dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 7:40 pm
From: mayliu2006@hotmail.com

www.housinghouse.com
i found this website a few days ago, first was attracted by its name.
in this website i found lots of gift commodities with low price,
including christmas gifts, birthday gifts, wedding gifts, daily
gifts,
etc. and their express is also the lowest i have ever seen.they are
all so good that i can't make my decision. then i refered to the
artical in theri websit. to my surprise, it tought me how to send the
best present, it gave me good suggeition.
i really like this website very much, and i want to share my pleasure
with you!
hope you can find your pleasure, too!
good luck!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 8:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

mayliu2006@hotmail.com wrote:
> www.housinghouse.com

> i found this website a few days ago, first was attracted by its name.

Must be one of those rocket scientist spammers, it can even find its own site.

> in this website i found lots of gift commodities with low price,
> including christmas gifts, birthday gifts, wedding gifts, daily
> gifts,
> etc. and their express is also the lowest i have ever seen.they are
> all so good that i can't make my decision. then i refered to the
> artical in theri websit. to my surprise, it tought me how to send the
> best present, it gave me good suggeition.
> i really like this website very much, and i want to share my pleasure
> with you!
> hope you can find your pleasure, too!
> good luck!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Only fools support these leeches.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/59a07acaae33c510?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 8:10 pm
From: Robert

On Dec 12, 5:18 am, Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> IS : 51% of Mexican "Immigrants" On Welfare
>
> Friday, June 15, 2007 -
>
> WASHINGTON (June 6, 2007) As they debate legalization for illegal
> immigrants, Senators would do well to keep in mind the most recent
> data on welfare use by the people in question. According to the
> Department of Homeland Security, nearly 60% of illegal aliens are from
> Mexico and 80% of the total are from Latin America as a whole. A new
> Center for Immigration Studies analysis of 2006 Census Bureau data,
> which includes legal and illegal immigrants, shows use of welfare by
> households headed by Mexican and Latin American immigrants is more
> than double that of native households. Among the findings:
>
> 51% of all Mexican immigrant households use at least one major welfare
> program and 28% use more than one program. - 40% use food assistance,
> 35% use Medicaid, 6% use cash assistance.
> 45% of all Latin American immigrant households use at least one
> welfare program and 24% use more than one program.
> 32% use food assistance, 31% use Medicaid, 6% use cash assistance.
> 20% of native households use at least one welfare program and 11%
> multiple programs.
> 11% use food assistance, 15% use Medicaid, 5% use cash assistance.
> Click here to see the original with much more info
>
> ted
>
> http://www.wvwnews.net/

Western Voices World News

The president of Mexico just said, "Mexico is wherever you find
Mexicans."

Robert

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www globwholesale com) HOT SELLING lacoste puma trainers, Adidas NBA
Shoes, Gucci Sunglasses,Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ea5940690cf7f40?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 8:35 pm
From: globwholesale@126.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.globwholesale.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women
AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man
Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you
to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!

Website : http://www.globwholesale.com
Yahoo ID:globwholesale@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: change
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dada351212be093e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 9:40 pm
From: Donna

Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote in
news:Xns9A019BDC8CFB6MacCool@130.133.1.4:

> Donna:
>
>> A lot of banks will roll it for you for free.
>
> A lot? Where do you live that any bank will roll your change? I've yet
> to find a bank that will and most have stopped giving away free paper
> rolls, well they might give you a few but not too many. Now most
> cities have at least one business that counts paper money and
> sometimes change for a percentage.
>

I'm in VA. One local bank ran a campaign last year that they'd roll your
change for free just for stopping by. I didn't have an account there and
yet, they counted over $800 and gave me paper cash for it. No charge. They
didn't even try to talk me into opening an account.

I don't use a big name bank. Perhaps that's why I have pretty decent luck
with this kind of thing.

--
~Donna
http://www.frugalsewing.com
Reduce, reuse, recycle, re-create.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PSP PS2 PS3 Nokia N95 Hoodies Sunglasses Nokia N93 Nokia N70 Sony
memory card(www.shopbb.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1808b5693f748b63?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 9:41 pm
From: "shopbb.com"

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.shopbb.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.shopbb.com
MSN and E-mail: shopbb@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EARN 300-600 DOLLARS PER MONTH WITHOUT INVESTMENT
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ff8e137beca05311?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 9:53 pm
From: dsmoses76@gmail.com

EARN 300-600 DOLLARS PER MONTH WITHOUT INVESTMENT

For more details please log on to

http://www.moreinfo247.com/9849851/CB

* YOU WILL BE PAID 2 US DOLLARS FOR EACH MEMBER JOINING UNDER YOU
* (they also should work)
*
* TO ENROLL MEMBERS YOU CAN USE YAHOO GROUPS OR FREE ADS.
*
* FOR INCOME PROOF MAIL ME AT
*
* 100% LEGAL. YOU SHOULD WORK OTHERWISE YOU CANNOT REAP THE FULL
BENEFIT
*
* YOU CANNOT BECOME RICH OVERNIGHT. BUT FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE CAN BE
GAINED

THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU CLOSE

NOTE: THIS MESSAGE IS SENT TO INTERESTED MEMBERS OF THE GROUP OTHERS
PLEASE IGNORE.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free to get your credit card report, will not even ask for your credit
card number
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/983507c042ace9e3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 12 2007 10:11 pm
From: freefreenews@yahoo.com.tw

List of website to find your credit report, history, rating and debts
for Free. List of website to find your credit report, history, rating
and debts for Free
http://www.geocities.com/freefreecredit/

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Thursday, December 13, 2007

24 new messages in 16 topics - digest

20 new messages in 12 topics - digest