Frugal Living: Jun 6, 2008

Friday, June 6, 2008

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap NFL Sports Jerseys, NBA NHL Soccer Jersey Supply
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1d1ea9665aa7a96f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 12:11 pm
From: sunglassescheap@126.com

Air Max 87 / 90 / 95 / 97 / 360 / 180 / 2003 / 2008 / TN / LTD
Sneakers,
Shox R2 / R3 / R4 / R5 / R6 / OZ / NZ / TL / Turob / BMW Sneakers

Discout Puma Trainers, Adidas Trainers, Lacoste Trainers, Jordan1-23
Sneakers, Prada Sneakers, AF1 Sneakers, Mauri Sneakers, Dsquared Hogan
Sneakers, AF1 X JORDAN Fusion S hoes, China Supplier.

Discount Pro Bowl NFL jersey, NBA Jersey, NHL jersey, MLB jersey
discount price. Suppliers NFL sports jersey, NFL basketball jersey,
NFL football jersey, Reebok NFL jersey, 2008 New NFL jersey

( www.g lobwholesale.com.cn )

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What to Do With Newspaper?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f28541661165820?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 12:18 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

Here's one minor thing you can do that many don't know about. If you
have a musty (not moldy) book, put in a sheet of newspaper for every
half-inch of thickness, plus one for each cover if it's a hardcover,
surround it with crumpled newspaper in a cardboard box and let it sit
for two days or so. Works quite well.

Here 's more about that particular problem:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.collecting.books/browse_thread/thread/931d6518df9a2439/0ef43a3090b29426?lnk=st&q=rec.collecting.books+FAQ#0ef43a3090b29426

(Look under #15.)

Lenona.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 9:42 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply" <samhill@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
message news:48476078$0$17236$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> BeaForoni@msn.com wrote:
>> The local fishwrap has decided to delivery the paper to me for
>> thirteen weeks, FREE! I don't read it as it is also online. The
>
> Call the newspaper office
Walk into the newspaper office and bang your fist on there desk and tell
them to knock it off.
Works for me.
and tell them that you don't want the
> newspaper even if it is free and to please stop delivering it. Keep
> complaining every morning until it stops. Probably will only take a day
> or two.
>
> The number for circulation is probably on page 2 near the bottom of the
> page.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turn that cell phone charger off!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/08c4c18e7cebc41e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 1:40 pm
From: SMS

max wrote:

> that depends. not all electrical outlets are rated for a great many
> plug insertions. You could find yourself destroying an outlet and in
> need of a very pain-in-the-ass replacement should the installation or
> wiring be as substandard as the outlet.

An outlet costs under $1, and it will last for many thousands of insertions.

In any case, spending $4 on a switch that will save only a few cents
worth of electricity per year is lunacy. You can buy a cheap power strip
on sale at Fry's for less than $4.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 1:56 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

Bill wrote:
> The little boxes which plug into to the wall like cell phone chargers
> (called transformers, power supplies, or wall warts) are *always* using
> electricity! Even when not plugged into the cell phone.
>
> Here is a neat little switch which goes between the outlet and things like
> this you want to turn off when not in use...
> http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/12-34-outlet-adapters/plug-in-indoor-switch-102887.aspx

My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the cell phone
and *then* into the wall, rather than vice versa. Even though this
sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference. (In London, plugging
a CPAP unit in in reverse order could blow the fuse in it, while the
right way around never did.)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
A great many people think they are thinking when they are
only rearranging their prejudices. -William James

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 2:20 pm
From: max

In article <Jdh2k.74$cW3.62@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> max wrote:
>
> > that depends. not all electrical outlets are rated for a great many
> > plug insertions. You could find yourself destroying an outlet and in
> > need of a very pain-in-the-ass replacement should the installation or
> > wiring be as substandard as the outlet.
>
> An outlet costs under $1, and it will last for many thousands of insertions.

That crappy $1 outlet is going to be lotsa comfort to the guy who
discovers he has old wiring that self-destructs the moment he removes
the outlet or when he discovers that the genius who remuddled the house
in 1974 pulled out all the slack in the wiring. etc.

"All you gotta do is ..." is the beginning of a great many home repair
nightmares.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 3:51 pm
From: SMS

max wrote:

> That crappy $1 outlet is going to be lotsa comfort to the guy who
> discovers he has old wiring that self-destructs the moment he removes
> the outlet or when he discovers that the genius who remuddled the house
> in 1974 pulled out all the slack in the wiring. etc.

$1 is for the more expensive outlets! Go to a store like HD Supply where
they sell the outlets individually in bins, not where you buy them
individually wrapped.

Leviton outlets in bulk packs are about 75¢ each in the 200 unit bulk pack.

Now if you want el-cheapo no-name outlets, you can get them for a lot less.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 7:32 pm
From: Logan Shaw

max wrote:
> In article <Jdh2k.74$cW3.62@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> max wrote:

>>> that depends. not all electrical outlets are rated for a great many
>>> plug insertions. You could find yourself destroying an outlet and in
>>> need of a very pain-in-the-ass replacement should the installation or
>>> wiring be as substandard as the outlet.
>> An outlet costs under $1, and it will last for many thousands of insertions.
>
> That crappy $1 outlet is going to be lotsa comfort to the guy who
> discovers he has old wiring that self-destructs the moment he removes
> the outlet

On the other hand, if my wiring were that bad, I'd want to find out about
it sooner rather than later, so that I could fix it.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trader Joe's, Whole Foods
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/46d0dde396496757?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 1:47 pm
From: SMS

meatnub wrote:
> When these places opened up near me it was cool to go to them for the
> novelty of something new, different foods and what not, healthier too.
> That was about 2, 3 years ago.
>
> Have these places gotten any more expensive?
>
> Now that I intend to cook from scratch a lot more, and eat healthier
> (now that my wife and I have a 1 year old son), I am thinking about
> going to a butcher for meats and visitings these stores for natural
> food (with less or no preservatives or pesticides in their products).
>
> I just wonder now that they are popular if their prices have risen
> significantly, esp. with the cost of gas going up?

Trader Joe's is usually much less expensive than regular grocery stores
for most items.

With gas prices going up, stores like Trader Joe's and Costco will
become more popular. Trader Joe's is expanding a lot, so soon a lot more
people will be able to get there by bicycle or walking instead of having
to drive.

Whole Foods is the low-price leader on many items, and outrageously
expensive on other items. Avoid their meat and produce, but many of
their house brand items are of equal or better quality than national
brands, and cost less. They seem to have especially good prices on dairy
products, significantly lower on many identical items than the "normal"
grocery store. They have a big bulk food selection which is often a good
deal.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tracfone
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56cc0a72df54a2f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 1:51 pm
From: SMS

Boothbay wrote:
> can anyone here recommend the Tracfone? Is it reliable, pros and cons
> please.

It's one of the more expensive prepaid plans, but yes, it's reliable.

See "http://prepaiduswireless.com/"

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 9:59 pm
From: MarkPHd21@gmail.com

.
you are charged retrieving voicemail
but not if call/retrieve from another phone

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Young, good looking,open minded females in this NG
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/adec229a53814bdf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 1:51 pm
From: TBerk

Newsgroups: alt.movies, rec.arts.movies.past-films, alt.vacation.las-
vegas, misc.consumers.frugal-living, alt.religion.scientology

Followup-To: alt.movies, rec.arts.movies.past-films, alt.vacation.las-
vegas, misc.consumers.frugal-living, alt.religion.scientology
From: indiana_bi...@hotmail.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 2:34 pm
From: "steve"

On 6-Jun-2008, indiana_biker@hotmail.com wrote:

> Young, good looking,open minded females in this NG

In math class we were taught to call this "The Empty Set".
--
"History is a lie agreed upon." --Napoleon

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get remaining liquid out of containers...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0d0fe996d9500468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 3:13 pm
From: Al Bundy

The Real Bev wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
> > For liquid laundry soap, use pliers to pull the inner spout out, then the
> > remaining liquid can be poured out. If you use a laundromat, leave pliers in
> > your car for this....
> > Then for other liquids, leave container upside down when near empty.
>
> Want to shop at the store on the other side of the street? CROSS THE
> STREET.
>
> HTH. HAND.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Bev

Still a good idea to leave pliers in your car though just in case your
dentist is closed before you get there or something.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 7:29 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Jonathan Grobe wrote:
> On 2008-06-06, Bill <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> For liquid laundry soap, use pliers to pull the inner spout out, then the
>> remaining liquid can be poured out. If you use a laundromat, leave pliers in
>> your car for this.
>
> Just add water and swish it around, since it is always going to
> be diluted with water anyway.

Or better yet, don't buy liquid laundry detergent, because it's more
expensive in the first place. Buy the powder kind.

And to avoid the powder kind messing up your clothes, do the following:
1) start the washer cycle
2) as the water starts flowing, dump a scoop of powder into the stream,
so that the powder starts dissolving ASAP
3) then go gather up the clothes you were going to wash, and load them
into the washer while it fills.

Of course, you can gather the clothes before starting the cycle; it
just saves time to gather them while the washer is starting to fill.

Also, this method doesn't work at all with a front-loader.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal baseball (San Francisco version)-Feel free to post for your area
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/62102e96038c7666?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 3:24 pm
From: Al Bundy

George Grapman wrote:
> Went to the Giants game tonight and it was very frugal.
>
> Tickets- I was watching a game at home last week and they announced
> a special $11 ticket promotion (Ch.11 is their local station). I figured
> it would be bleacher seats but I got two in the upper deck behind home.
> They are normally $20 and I consider that a fair price when compared to
> any other live entertainment where you see the best performers in their
> field.
>
> Parking- Most street parking limits and meters expire at 6 p.m.. The
> game was at 7:15. Found a truck zone at 5:45 and waited 15 minutes while
> reading the paper. It was 15-20 minute walk to the park but I was lazy
> and took public transit for $3 round trip. Also could have driven to the
> BART station 2 miles from home for another $3 round trip but knew
> parking downtown would get me home sooner,
>
> Refreshments- $5 sandwich at the local deli,a few cookies and bottled
> water (the only bans on outside stuff are cans,bottles and alcohol). It
> got cold in the 7th inning but I resisted the urge for a $3.50 coffee.

So I saved at least $19 by not even going. Man, I feel good.
Try that park and ride mode around here and you'd be lucky to get
home.
Even the cops and firefighters get mugged here when not on duty.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 3:40 pm
From: George Grapman

Al Bundy wrote:
>
> George Grapman wrote:
>> Went to the Giants game tonight and it was very frugal.
>>
>> Tickets- I was watching a game at home last week and they announced
>> a special $11 ticket promotion (Ch.11 is their local station). I figured
>> it would be bleacher seats but I got two in the upper deck behind home.
>> They are normally $20 and I consider that a fair price when compared to
>> any other live entertainment where you see the best performers in their
>> field.
>>
>> Parking- Most street parking limits and meters expire at 6 p.m.. The
>> game was at 7:15. Found a truck zone at 5:45 and waited 15 minutes while
>> reading the paper. It was 15-20 minute walk to the park but I was lazy
>> and took public transit for $3 round trip. Also could have driven to the
>> BART station 2 miles from home for another $3 round trip but knew
>> parking downtown would get me home sooner,
>>
>> Refreshments- $5 sandwich at the local deli,a few cookies and bottled
>> water (the only bans on outside stuff are cans,bottles and alcohol). It
>> got cold in the 7th inning but I resisted the urge for a $3.50 coffee.
>
> So I saved at least $19 by not even going. Man, I feel good.
> Try that park and ride mode around here and you'd be lucky to get
> home.
> Even the cops and firefighters get mugged here when not on duty.

That park/ride option is not intended for every location.
I should add the nice option for A's games. Drive to the Bay Fair
station two stations south of the Coliseum ,park for free in the BART
lot and pay $3 round trip.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Inflation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0fa31ed37758359d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 6:50 pm
From: "RodSpeed,_start_looking_for_arable_land"

No matter what we do ourselves to fight inflation, I think higher
interest rates will be the only way to tame it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 7:05 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

RodSpeed,_start_looking_for_arable_land <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote:

> No matter what we do ourselves to fight inflation, I think
> higher interest rates will be the only way to tame it.

That doesnt work when its driven by the price of crude oil.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: International Student loan that can be used at any college?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18c86a178627c9ad?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 7:05 pm
From: maria

I've seen dozens of international student loans that are only able to
be used at participating colleges.
Are there any international student loans that can be used at any
international college rather than the selection they have available?

Thank you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This site is all about "student loan" :
http://the-private-student-loan.blogspot.com
http://the-student--loan--consolidation.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Apples
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b20db81f878f9e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 8:16 pm
From: Dan Birchall

barko18@net.com (Marlo) wrote:
> So on a list I'm on with lots of great people, some of whom are boneheaded,
> someone called for the return of "traditional" families -- you know, where
> the husband works and the wife stays home with the kids, stuff like that.
>
> I said it was shortsighted and ignored millennia of other traditions to call
> the nuclear family "traditional" and another woman said that Adam and Eve
> sure looked plenty traditional to her, minus a closet full of clothes. My
> response:
>
> Wow. Really? Let's see...
>
> 1) They raised a murderer
> 2) Their kids all practiced incest
> 3) Neither of them worked, either in or outside of the home

Sounds like the "traditional" American bible-belt family to me, yup! ;)

Oooh, good sigmonster.

-Dan

--
Some people wear black t-shirts to make some kind of fashion statement.
I'm the type who wears black t-shirts because they don't show the blood.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Range clock - Disconnect it!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3e2a7ad7ec279de4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 8:26 pm
From: "Bob F"

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4rw1k.3800$xZ.1621@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Don Klipstein wrote:
>
>> My computer has an Asus A7N8X-E "deluxe" motherboard for the AMD "Athlon
>> XP" processor. That is maybe 5 years old. I got it the same day I got a
>> "3200+" processor. The battery is removable and replaceable. I have that
>> computer on a power strip that I often turn off.
>
> Asus is a top of the line motherboard, so you'd expect them to have a
> replaceable battery. The boards sold for use in name brand computers are
> decontented to save ever penny possible, literally (I used to work for a very
> large Taiwanese motherboard company's U.S. office). This includes using a very
> low capacity back-up battery, and soldering it in.

I've seen a lot of motherboards, and I can't remember ever seeing a soldered in
battery.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 8:34 pm
From: Tony Hwang

Bob F wrote:

> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:4rw1k.3800$xZ.1621@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
>>Don Klipstein wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My computer has an Asus A7N8X-E "deluxe" motherboard for the AMD "Athlon
>>>XP" processor. That is maybe 5 years old. I got it the same day I got a
>>>"3200+" processor. The battery is removable and replaceable. I have that
>>>computer on a power strip that I often turn off.
>>
>>Asus is a top of the line motherboard, so you'd expect them to have a
>>replaceable battery. The boards sold for use in name brand computers are
>>decontented to save ever penny possible, literally (I used to work for a very
>>large Taiwanese motherboard company's U.S. office). This includes using a very
>>low capacity back-up battery, and soldering it in.
>
>
> I've seen a lot of motherboards, and I can't remember ever seeing a soldered in
> battery.
>
>
Hi,
Some has soldered ones. Any how they last quite long time.
On mother board there are two time functions. One real time, one is
watch dog timer.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 10:23 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <HsSdnaHxiedwYtTVnZ2dnUVZ_r6rnZ2d@comcast.com>, Bob F wrote:
>
>"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:4rw1k.3800$xZ.1621@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Don Klipstein wrote:
>>
>>> My computer has an Asus A7N8X-E "deluxe" motherboard for the AMD "Athlon
>>> XP" processor. That is maybe 5 years old. I got it the same day I got a
>>> "3200+" processor. The battery is removable and replaceable. I have that
>>> computer on a power strip that I often turn off.
>>
>> Asus is a top of the line motherboard, so you'd expect them to have a
>> replaceable battery. The boards sold for use in name brand computers
>> are decontented to save ever penny possible, literally (I used to work
>> for a very large Taiwanese motherboard company's U.S. office). This
>> includes using a very low capacity back-up battery, and soldering it in.
>
>I've seen a lot of motherboards, and I can't remember ever seeing a soldered in
>battery.

I remember seeing one out of dozens of motherboards. I forget what the
motherboard was.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Video: ExplainThis to the Emergency Room Doctor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c08cfbee7ac67e06?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 6 2008 8:27 pm
From: moore@ofthis.com (Moore)

Fat guy messes up.

http://revver.com/video/7319/affiliate/169994/explainthis-to-the-emergency-
room-doctor/

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

15 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* The Economic Cost of the Earthquake - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e41953baa6350be8?hl=en
* Frugal travel JFK to midtown Manhattan - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/65edc10560269528?hl=en
* Range clock - Disconnect it! - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3e2a7ad7ec279de4?hl=en
* What to Do With Newspaper? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f28541661165820?hl=en
* Apples - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b20db81f878f9e8?hl=en
* build your own auto trailer - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/520c5580f399639a?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Economic Cost of the Earthquake
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e41953baa6350be8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 3:23 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 07:30:19 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>PaPaPeng wrote:
>> Its pretty impressive the authorities can come up with accurate
>> figures on the economic consequences of the Sichuan earthquake.
>>
>> China picks up the pieces
>
>If anyone really cares, they can click on the news rather than reading
>your endless posts.
>The Chinese are a great people and will deal with this.

I posted in the wrong newsgroup. But I am still impressed cuz if you
know where the economic damage is you can plan which problem to attack
first. In three years everything will be restored and built over.
You wouldn't know that that had been a total leveling of everything
before. What you think had never mattered. You have enough troubles
of your own.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal travel JFK to midtown Manhattan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/65edc10560269528?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 3:28 pm
From: William Souden

TKM wrote:
> "William Souden" <souden@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:glZ1k.913$L_.625@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> Binyamin Dissen wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 07:41:35 -0700 William Souden <souden@nospam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> :>Dan Birchall wrote:
>>> :>> souden@nospam.com (William Souden) wrote:
>>> :>>> I just returned from a trip to NYC and to took the train
>>> connection :>>> to midtown. While not recommended for those with many
>>> bags or mobility :>>> problems it worked for me:
>>>
>>> :>>> Air Train to Jamaica-$5
>>> :>>> Long Island Railroad to Penn Station-$7.25 (cheaper off-peak. a
>>> two :>>> minute walk)
>>> :>> Seconded - I just did the same thing a little bit earlier than
>>> William.
>>> :>> I was traveling off-peak so I think my LIRR ticket was $5.25 or
>>> $5.50.
>>> :>> I actually connected at Penn Station to NJ Transit and went over to
>>> see
>>> :>> family.
>>> :>> If you want to be a _real_ tightwad, instead of taking the $5+ LIRR
>>> :>> train from Jamaica to Penn Station, you can take the MTA (subway) "E"
>>> :>> train, which is only about $2. The AirTrain also goes to Howard
>>> Beach
>>> :>> station (a little closer to JFK) where you can catch the MTA "A"
>>> train.
>>> :>> I used to take the "A" to near Wall Street and then take PATH over to
>>> :>> NJ. :> I knew about that option but since I would have been getting
>>> on the :>subway during the a.m. commute I opted for the LIRR. still had
>>> to stand :>but had more breathing room.
>>> :> Like you I head to NJ Transit,something that would not have been
>>> :>feasible before they built the Secaucus transfer station (another topic
>>> :>for another time).
>>> :> By the way, it was my first trip on Jet Blue. I tool the red eye and
>>> :>when I could not sleep I had Direct TV (individual monitors for each
>>> :>seat) and satellite radio.
>>>
>>> Even cheaper - city bus to subway. #2 total (if you have a metrocard)
>>>
>>
>> True but since I arrived during the a.m. commute I wanted the extra
>> breathing room on the LIRR. Also time was a factor as at that hour the
>> connection I used for NJ Transit only went once each hour.
>
> How do those options compare with the cost of the direct bus to midtown
> Manhattan?
> TKM
>
>
$12 for a direct bus to Grand Central Terminal. You can also take
bus/subway trip for $2. Might be good a some hours but not during 8 a.m.
traffic.I might opt for that and a taxi to Penn Station during
non-commute hours.
A taxi is $45. Great for several people but,again, the traffic situation.

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 3:37 pm
From: dpb

Rod Speed wrote:
> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>>>>> max wrote:
>
>>>>>>> That's why i call it dishonest. Because the limitations of windmill
>>>>>>> technology do not require us to build more fossil fuel plants, and
>>>>>>> because it's "relatively" trivial to built energy storage systems to
>>>>>>> buffer their output, should we deem it helpful to do so.
>
>>>>>> The key word here is "relatively"... relative to what? We as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage
>>>>>> system that I'm aware of.
>
>>>>> You need to get out more.
>
>>>>> There are a number of those using hydro systems that get the storage
>>>>> by pumping water up at time of excess supply from the baseload coal
>>>>> generators and return that power to the system at times of excess
>>>>> demand by letting the water down again. Like the Australian Snowy
>>>>> system that is primarily a storage system for the entire SE Australian grid
>>>>> and generates only a minor part of its output from a single fall of water.
>
>>>> I am fully aware of pumped hydro storage.
>
>>> If you were, you wouldnt have made that stupid claim you clearly did make.
>
>> No,
>
> Yep.
>
>> I simply don't equate pumped storage w/ electricity storage
>
> Then you are just plain wrong. That is precisely what they are.
>
>> they're separate forms...
>
> Nope.
>
>> one _uses_ the (temporarily) excess power to refill the power supply, the other would be a storage of the electric
>> power itself to be used later.
>
> They are BOTH storage of electrical power to be used later.
>
>>>> They're of da'ed little value for the locations of most wind farms on the High Plains where there are (a) no hills,
>>>> (b) no surface water.
>
>>> Pity about the SE Australian grid where the wind farms
>>> are part of the SAME grid as the pumped hydro storage.
>
>> Well, SE Australia isn't the US High Plains.
>
> You never said anything about the US High Plains in that stupid claim you made that
> "as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of"
>
>> There would have to be even more currently nonexistent transmission lines built to supply the power to somewhere there
>> is sufficient elevation difference and water to complete the system and that ain't within anywhere close. CO has
>> elevation but very little excess water. KS, OK, TX, NE, etc. have minimal elevations. Catch-22.
>
> Irrelevant to that stupid claim you made that "as yet don't have
> a single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of"
>
>> Again, I repeat--even if pumped storage were the pancea,
>
> No one ever said it was.
>
>> that _STILL_ is an alternative system that would have to be built as a complement to the wind farm system
>
> Not when its already in place to allow constant loads on
> coal fired power stations in massive countrywide grids.

Well, except it isn't...

>> which _STILL_ is an added cost burden.
>
> Wrong, as always when its already in place to allow constant
> loads on coal fired power stations in massive countrywide grids.

Except it isn't...

>>> Your 'as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage
>>> system that I'm aware of' is clearly just plain wrong.
>
>>> AND it aint the only one either.
>
>> Agreed, used to live just down the road from Smith Mtn. But, it still ain't the same thing...
>
> Corse it is.

Except it isn't...

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 4:05 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

dpb <none@non.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>>>>>> max wrote:

>>>>>>>> That's why i call it dishonest. Because the limitations of windmill technology do not require us to build more
>>>>>>>> fossil fuel plants, and because it's "relatively" trivial to built energy storage systems to buffer their
>>>>>>>> output, should we deem it helpful to do so.

>>>>>>> The key word here is "relatively"... relative to what? We as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage
>>>>>>> system that I'm aware of.

>>>>>> You need to get out more.

>>>>>> There are a number of those using hydro systems that get the storage by pumping water up at time of excess supply
>>>>>> from the baseload coal generators and return that power to the system at times of excess demand by letting the
>>>>>> water down again. Like the Australian Snowy system that is primarily a storage system for the entire SE
>>>>>> Australian grid and generates only a minor part of its output from a single fall of water.

>>>>> I am fully aware of pumped hydro storage.

>>>> If you were, you wouldnt have made that stupid claim you clearly did make.

>>> No,

>> Yep.

>>> I simply don't equate pumped storage w/ electricity storage

>> Then you are just plain wrong. That is precisely what they are.

>>> they're separate forms...

>> Nope.

>>> one _uses_ the (temporarily) excess power to refill the power supply, the other would be a storage of the electric
>>> power itself to be used later.

>> They are BOTH storage of electrical power to be used later.

>>>>> They're of da'ed little value for the locations of most wind farms on the High Plains where there are (a) no
>>>>> hills, (b) no surface water.

>>>> Pity about the SE Australian grid where the wind farms
>>>> are part of the SAME grid as the pumped hydro storage.

>>> Well, SE Australia isn't the US High Plains.

>> You never said anything about the US High Plains in that stupid claim you made that "as yet don't have a single
>> large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of"

>>> There would have to be even more currently nonexistent transmission
>>> lines built to supply the power to somewhere there is sufficient
>>> elevation difference and water to complete the system and that
>>> ain't within anywhere close. CO has elevation but very little excess
>> water. KS, OK, TX, NE, etc. have minimal elevations. Catch-22.

>> Irrelevant to that stupid claim you made that "as yet don't have
>> a single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of"

>>> Again, I repeat--even if pumped storage were the pancea,

>> No one ever said it was.

>>> that _STILL_ is an alternative system that would have to be built as a complement to the wind farm system

>> Not when its already in place to allow constant loads on
>> coal fired power stations in massive countrywide grids.

> Well, except it isn't...

It is in some areas, so that stupid claim you made that "we as yet don't have a
single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of" is just plain wrong.

And that one I listed has wind farms too.

>>> which _STILL_ is an added cost burden.

>> Wrong, as always when its already in place to allow constant
>> loads on coal fired power stations in massive countrywide grids.

> Except it isn't...

It is in some areas, so that stupid claim you made that "we as yet don't have a
single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of" is just plain wrong.

And that one I listed has wind farms too.

>>>> Your 'as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage
>>>> system that I'm aware of' is clearly just plain wrong.

>>>> AND it aint the only one either.

>>> Agreed, used to live just down the road from Smith Mtn. But, it still ain't the same thing...

>> Corse it is.

> Except it isn't...

Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate that stupid claim either.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 4:58 pm
From: salty@dog.com

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:05:12 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> dpb <none@non.net> wrote
>>>>>>>> max wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>> That's why i call it dishonest. Because the limitations of windmill technology do not require us to build more
>>>>>>>>> fossil fuel plants, and because it's "relatively" trivial to built energy storage systems to buffer their
>>>>>>>>> output, should we deem it helpful to do so.
>
>>>>>>>> The key word here is "relatively"... relative to what? We as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage
>>>>>>>> system that I'm aware of.
>
>>>>>>> You need to get out more.
>
>>>>>>> There are a number of those using hydro systems that get the storage by pumping water up at time of excess supply
>>>>>>> from the baseload coal generators and return that power to the system at times of excess demand by letting the
>>>>>>> water down again. Like the Australian Snowy system that is primarily a storage system for the entire SE
>>>>>>> Australian grid and generates only a minor part of its output from a single fall of water.
>
>>>>>> I am fully aware of pumped hydro storage.
>
>>>>> If you were, you wouldnt have made that stupid claim you clearly did make.
>
>>>> No,
>
>>> Yep.
>
>>>> I simply don't equate pumped storage w/ electricity storage
>
>>> Then you are just plain wrong. That is precisely what they are.
>
>>>> they're separate forms...
>
>>> Nope.
>
>>>> one _uses_ the (temporarily) excess power to refill the power supply, the other would be a storage of the electric
>>>> power itself to be used later.
>
>>> They are BOTH storage of electrical power to be used later.
>
>>>>>> They're of da'ed little value for the locations of most wind farms on the High Plains where there are (a) no
>>>>>> hills, (b) no surface water.
>
>>>>> Pity about the SE Australian grid where the wind farms
>>>>> are part of the SAME grid as the pumped hydro storage.
>
>>>> Well, SE Australia isn't the US High Plains.
>
>>> You never said anything about the US High Plains in that stupid claim you made that "as yet don't have a single
>>> large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of"
>
>>>> There would have to be even more currently nonexistent transmission
>>>> lines built to supply the power to somewhere there is sufficient
>>>> elevation difference and water to complete the system and that
>>>> ain't within anywhere close. CO has elevation but very little excess
>>> water. KS, OK, TX, NE, etc. have minimal elevations. Catch-22.
>
>>> Irrelevant to that stupid claim you made that "as yet don't have
>>> a single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of"
>
>>>> Again, I repeat--even if pumped storage were the pancea,
>
>>> No one ever said it was.
>
>>>> that _STILL_ is an alternative system that would have to be built as a complement to the wind farm system
>
>>> Not when its already in place to allow constant loads on
>>> coal fired power stations in massive countrywide grids.
>
>> Well, except it isn't...
>
>It is in some areas, so that stupid claim you made that "we as yet don't have a
>single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of" is just plain wrong.
>
>And that one I listed has wind farms too.
>
>>>> which _STILL_ is an added cost burden.
>
>>> Wrong, as always when its already in place to allow constant
>>> loads on coal fired power stations in massive countrywide grids.
>
>> Except it isn't...
>
>It is in some areas, so that stupid claim you made that "we as yet don't have a
>single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of" is just plain wrong.
>
>And that one I listed has wind farms too.
>
>>>>> Your 'as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage
>>>>> system that I'm aware of' is clearly just plain wrong.
>
>>>>> AND it aint the only one either.
>
>>>> Agreed, used to live just down the road from Smith Mtn. But, it still ain't the same thing...
>
>>> Corse it is.
>
>> Except it isn't...
>
>Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate that stupid claim either.
>

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

You are!

No, YOU are!

nope. You are!

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 5:21 pm
From: "Lou"

"dpb" <none@non.net> wrote in message news:g29l68$6op$1@aioe.org...
> >> They're of da'ed little value for the locations of most wind farms on
the High Plains where there are (a) no hills,
> >> (b) no surface water.
> >
> > Pity about the SE Australian grid where the wind farms
> > are part of the SAME grid as the pumped hydro storage.
>
> Well, SE Australia isn't the US High Plains. There would have to be
> even more currently nonexistent transmission lines built to supply the
> power to somewhere there is sufficient elevation difference and water to
> complete the system and that ain't within anywhere close. CO has
> elevation but very little excess water. KS, OK, TX, NE, etc. have
> minimal elevations. Catch-22.
>
> Again, I repeat--even if pumped storage were the pancea, that _STILL_ is
> an alternative system that would have to be built as a complement to the
> wind farm system which _STILL_ is an added cost burden.
>
> > Your 'as yet don't have a single large-scale energy storage
> > system that I'm aware of' is clearly just plain wrong.
> >
> > AND it aint the only one either.
>
> Agreed, used to live just down the road from Smith Mtn. But, it still
> ain't the same thing...

There's pumped storage and there's pumped storage. The kind we usually hear
about involve pumping lots of water to an elevated reservoir, and I can see
how it might not be a great choice in areas with little water. On the other
hand, there is compressed air energy storage, and last I knew, there was air
just about everywhere. Not a real widespread technology at the moment, but
there is a 110-MW system in Alabama that's been commercial since 1991.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 6:45 pm
From: CJT

dpb wrote:

> max wrote:
> ...
>
>> That's why i call it dishonest. Because the limitations of windmill
>> technology do not require us to build more fossil fuel plants, and
>> because it's "relatively" trivial to built energy storage systems to
>> buffer their output, should we deem it helpful to do so.
>
>
> The key word here is "relatively"... relative to what? We as yet don't
> have a single large-scale energy storage system that I'm aware of.
>

Google "Ludington pumped storage"

> Also, I didn't say wind "requires" more fossil and it can replace a
> fraction of peak demand.
>
> My point was (and still is) that one cannot build a 100(say) MWe wind
> farm and expect to get 100 MWe from it in the same sense one can build
> an equivalent 100 MWe of conventional (fossil or nuclear) generation.
> Hence, the idea many promote that simply building wind farms eliminates
> the need for conventional generation is imo even more intellectually
> dishonest.
>
> --
>
>

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 3:44 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

TKM wrote:
>
> Well, if you have a wood-burning fireplace or stove, I remember a DIY
> article that suggested wrapping the newspaper tightly in a roll, securing it
> with string and then soaking it with water. Then it had to be dried for
> some days (weeks maybe?) which then converted the whole mess into a
> fireplace log.

Yeah, I remember my parents having a doohickey that would let you do
that. The trick is that it has to be rolled very tightly. (And don't
include the shiny supplements--can you say "toxic fumes"?!)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
A great many people think they are thinking when they are
only rearranging their prejudices. -William James

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 9:01 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <XpednSEmOZmEadrVnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>Casual observer wrote:
[ ... ]
>> Our local rag started throwing a POS "Community Newspaper" on everyone's
>> driveway - they started blowing around and created a real mess - repeated
>> requests to the newspaper to stop did nothing - a call to the City attorney
>> informed me that they could do nothing, either, as it was perceived as a 1st
>> Amendment issue.

>Our local paper had/has various free papers and they would toss them
>somewhere in the front of the house. I got tired of picking them up and
>called and told them I would have them cited for littering if it
>continued. That stopped the delivery cold.

The local court here threw out littering charges against the local paper
over the free sales paper they're scattering over our yards.

I just leave them out in the yard until I drag the trash can out, then toss
them all into it.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"a member or members of Osama bin Ladens' Al Qaeda network, posing as
computer programmers, were able to gain employment at Microsoft..."
claim made by Mohammed Afroze Abdul Razzak to police in India, 12/01.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 10:27 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

Vandy Terre wrote:
...
> It is a fire hazard to use untreated paper to improve insulation of the home.
> With that in mind, in times of desperate quick fix, newspaper makes cheap, short
> term insulation. Wadded in the walls or wadded inside a large set of sweats
> with you inside the sweats, newspaper can insulate during an emergency.

It's simple and inexpensive to treat newspaper with a borax solution.
This will effectively eliminate the fire problem.

Anthony

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 4:13 pm
From: Dennis

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:14:56 -0400, "Marlo" <barko18@net.com> wrote:

>So on a list I'm on with lots of great people, some of whom are boneheaded,
>someone called for the return of "traditional" families -- you know, where
>the husband works and the wife stays home with the kids, stuff like that.
>
>I said it was shortsighted and ignored millennia of other traditions to call
>the nuclear family "traditional" and another woman said that Adam and Eve
>sure looked plenty traditional to her, minus a closet full of clothes. My
>response:
>
> Wow. Really? Let's see...
>
> 1) They raised a murderer
> 2) Their kids all practiced incest
> 3) Neither of them worked, either in or outside of the home
>
> (Not to mention, and this is one you can skip if you want, THEY'RE
> FICTIONAL!)
>

Oh my, yes! You are so clever. So very, very clever indeed.

We can see that you are proud of your work, but really, we would never
dream of asking you to take precious time away from the task of
showing up those boneheads on your list, just to share your precious
gems of wit and wisdom with the likes of us here on
misc.consumers.frugal-living.

No, really.

Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

==============================================================================
TOPIC: build your own auto trailer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/520c5580f399639a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 4:16 pm
From: JustMe

I need to haul maybe 800 lbs of junk (books mostly, also some
computers and misc) from a storage unit about 200 miles away. I'd like
to build a quick and dirty trailer for the job. Anyone know of plans I
can download for nuthin? Thanks.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 4:24 pm
From: Ron Peterson

On Jun 5, 6:16 pm, JustMe <generalordertwentyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I need to haul maybe 800 lbs of junk (books mostly, also some
> computers and misc) from a storage unit about 200 miles away. I'd like
> to build a quick and dirty trailer for the job. Anyone know of plans I
> can download for nuthin? Thanks.

What's wrong with renting?

--
Ron

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 5:32 pm
From: SMS

JustMe wrote:
> I need to haul maybe 800 lbs of junk (books mostly, also some
> computers and misc) from a storage unit about 200 miles away. I'd like
> to build a quick and dirty trailer for the job. Anyone know of plans I
> can download for nuthin? Thanks.

Wait for a sale and a 15% off coupon from a Harbor Freight store.

Right now you can buy am 860 pound capacity trailer from their stores
for $145. You can probably sell it for at least $100 when you're
through, maybe you could sell it for the whole $145, considering the
assembly time. It's complete with lights and all. You need to add a
plywood bed.

See it at
"http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42708"
but buy it at the store.

It's a lot of assembly, not something you can do in the parking lot of
the store and tow it home. You'll save a lot of assembly time if you
have an impact wrench and compressor to use.

I doubt if you could build a trailer for less than what Harbor Freight
charges.

The one I bought is
"http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42709"
and it was around $208 on sale, with a discount coupon.

Where are you located?

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 5 2008 6:35 pm
From:

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:ww%1k.3705$ZE5.1664@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> JustMe wrote:
>> I need to haul maybe 800 lbs of junk (books mostly, also some
>> computers and misc) from a storage unit about 200 miles away. I'd like
>> to build a quick and dirty trailer for the job. Anyone know of plans I
>> can download for nuthin? Thanks.
>
> Wait for a sale and a 15% off coupon from a Harbor Freight store.
>
> Right now you can buy am 860 pound capacity trailer from their stores for
> $145. You can probably sell it for at least $100 when you're through,
> maybe you could sell it for the whole $145, considering the assembly time.
> It's complete with lights and all. You need to add a plywood bed.
>
> See it at
> "http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42708"
> but buy it at the store.
>
> It's a lot of assembly, not something you can do in the parking lot of the
> store and tow it home. You'll save a lot of assembly time if you have an
> impact wrench and compressor to use.
>
> I doubt if you could build a trailer for less than what Harbor Freight
> charges.
>
> The one I bought is
> "http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42709"
> and it was around $208 on sale, with a discount coupon.
>
> Where are you located?

I was going to suggest Harbor Freight but you beat me to it. I think even
the OP buys the parts, it would cost more. And then he needed to have it
licensed and perhaps required to provide the design and structural
calculations to get it approved for road use.

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