Frugal Living: Oct 10, 2007

Wednesday, October 10, 2007

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LCD power consumption
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b7795a2be395a19a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 3:52 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:54:12 -0500, me@privacy.net wrote:

>>The KWorld box looks like it has a built-in speaker. Of course, some
>>monitors also have built-in speakers, and the TV tuner boxes also switch
>>that signal depending on whether you're viewing the TV or computer.
>
>Wouldn't it be better to use a LCD HDTV as a computer
>monitor than a computer monitor as a TV?

Depends on the resolution capabilities of the HDTV. A large screen
with 720p isn't great for working with text on a PC. HDTVs capable of
1080p are more generally expensive.

Also, a given HDTV may or may not have input connectors that are
compatible with your PC's video card.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 3:55 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Oct 7, 9:04 pm, Jeff <dont_bug...@all.uk> wrote:
> I was thinking of going LCD here for my monitor and television and
> saving some space and some watts.
>
> It looks to me that LCD monitors take about a third the power of
> their CRT equivalents. Curiously an LCD television might be use more
> power than it's CRT cousin.
>
> <URL:http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6475_7-6400401-3.html?tag=nav/>
>
> That seems crazy to me. Is it the faster refresh rates on the monitors
> causing that?
>
> On another note, anyone have a monitor/tv combo? What's it take to
> get televison on a monitor? How about those TV tuner cards? What about
> a digital video (US) or NTSC to DVI converter?
>
> And finally, anyone tried the Staples brand 19" monitor?
>
> I may be a little OT with all these questions but it seems like one
> LCD for TV and computer is damn frugal!
>
> Jeff

The Staple's brand is most likely an LG or Westinghouse. I just
replaced our main PC's CRT with a 19in LCD Westinghouse for the same
reason you mentioned. The other PC in the house got a 15in LCD TV/
Monitor (Hannspree) that I picked up rather frugally at Tuesday
Morning (has some basketball team theme on the borders...who
cares...it was cheap).

As for the tuners and cards....I could see using those if you wanted
to get HDTV signals on your PC, mostly.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 4:17 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-B0C623.18362910102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <otsog352slo2tl336l20k1dmg4gj1s6mj1@4ax.com>,
> Rob Jensen <ShutUpRob@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 02:04:41 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <rh0mg3dv69n0nnj27lqbsrh2t450b7eiuv@4ax.com>,
>> > Rob Jensen <ShutUpRob@aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:32:57 -0400, William Grosvenor
>> >> <billgruber@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I say that we vote for Fred Dalton Thompson and return
>> >> > to traditional American family values.
>> >>
>> >> But aren't conservatives supposed to hate Hollywood and
>> >> everything it stands for?
>> >
>> >No.
>>
>> Well then, why do they?
>
> Some do, some don't.

Actually, it is one of those love/hate relationships I would think. We all
love to go to a good movie, regardless of what the actors polictical biases
are. We just don't like it when they use their fame and money, to back some
party or their ideas, which we do not approve of. "If" for instance, these
actors were mostly conservative or republican, then I would imagine that
democrats or liberals would be saying the same thing about these Hollywood
types, that republicans and conservates are now saying about them.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 4:51 pm
From: trader4@optonline.net

On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>
> > In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
> >> Do you have a workable plan?
>
> > Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
> > until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will do my
> > damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be done
> > at all."
>
> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry can tell
> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to hear about
> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.

Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
solution to the problem.

If you
> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to solving the
> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE has to come
> up with a solution.

Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
thread.

Solutions:

Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
down by everyone.

Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
illegals, they'll stop coming.

Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
they encounter.

Deport those that are found

Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely with
satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like, we can
make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In fact, this
would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can secure the
borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to
Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 5:54 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>
>> > In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>> >> Do you have a workable plan?
>>
>> > Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
>> > until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will do
>> > my
>> > damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be done
>> > at all."
>>
>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry can
>> tell
>> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to hear
>> about
>> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>
>
> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
> solution to the problem.
>

Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either, so
telling him about the problem does not solve the problem. On the other
hand, if you told the boss "every 10th widgtet that comes off the assembly
line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile" and you had a solution
to stop that from happening, that you have not only pointed out a problem,
but you have a way to stop that from happening. Problems cannot be
corrected without a solution. It is not bad to point out problems, but it
is a whole lot better, if you poitned out a problem and had a proposed
solution.
>
>
>
> If you
>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to solving
>> the
>> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE has to
>> come
>> up with a solution.
>
> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
> thread.

Okay, let us talk about illegal immigration. First of all, no society has
been very successdul at stopping people from doing what they want to do.
People enter this country illegally because they believe they have a shot a
living a better life here than where they come from. So, if you do not
address that dynamic, then nothing else you do will work.
>
> Solutions:
>
>
> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
> down by everyone.

that is not a bad idea.
>
> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
> illegals, they'll stop coming.
>

That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem. First
because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring these people. You
can make it a whole lot more difficult on them, and you may stop more or
most of them from hiring these illegals, but you will NEVER stop ALL of them
from hiring illegals. But for the sake of discussion, let us for the
moment assume that we can stop all businesses from hiring illegals. Will
that work? No, it won't work. If you were in this country illegally, what
you would do is work the underground economy, so all you have succeeded in
doing is driving them to work in the underground economy, and then you have
just made the job of finding them that much harder, if not impossible.

> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
> they encounter.

Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>
> Deport those that are found

Lousy idea. You deport them and they just turn right around and re-enter
this country illegally again. "If" we were really serious about providing
them with a incentive not to enter this country illegally, let them spend
some time in prison. And if they come back into this country illegally
again, put them in prison for a longer period of time. That alone would
work a whole lot better.
>
> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely with
> satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like, we can
> make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In fact, this
> would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can secure the
> borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to
> Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.
>
>

Nothing wrong with that idea. Of course there is a whole lot of water
surrounding the United States, and there is the northern border which is
open.
>

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 7:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>
>>> In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>> Do you have a workable plan?
>>
>>> Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
>>> until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will
>>> do my damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing
>>> should be done at all."
>>
>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry
>> can tell me about what they see as a problem. It does very little
>> good to hear about a problem if they do not have a solution to the
>> perceived problem.
>
>
> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
> solution to the problem.
>
>
>
>
> If you
>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
>> solving the problem, then the problem will never go away....because
>> SOMEONE has to come up with a solution.
>
> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
> thread.
>
> Solutions:
>
>
> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
> down by everyone.
>
> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
> illegals, they'll stop coming.
>
> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
> they encounter.
>
> Deport those that are found
>
> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely with
> satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like, we can
> make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In fact, this
> would solve much of our problem in Iraq.

Nope, the cost of doing that is unaffordable and you would
need FAR more apes in boots than you have there now too.

> If you can secure the borders,

Have you the remotest concept of how much border Iraq actually has ?

> then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to Iraq

Pure fantasy. Even an Iraeli type wall wouldnt achieve that.

> and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.

Pure fantasy given what happened when Iraq army was shut
down and what happened to all the stuff they had at that time.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 8:39 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

Jerry Okamura wrote:
> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
>> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
>> solution to the problem.
>
> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either, so
> telling him about the problem does not solve the problem.

No problem was ever solved until it was first discovered.

Anthony

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 8:00 pm
From: trader4@optonline.net

On Oct 10, 10:24 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> > On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>
> >>> In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
> >>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
> >>>> Do you have a workable plan?
>
> >>> Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
> >>> until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will
> >>> do my damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing
> >>> should be done at all."
>
> >> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry
> >> can tell me about what they see as a problem. It does very little
> >> good to hear about a problem if they do not have a solution to the
> >> perceived problem.
>
> > Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
> > boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
> > cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
> > boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
> > solution to the problem.
>
> > If you
> >> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
> >> solving the problem, then the problem will never go away....because
> >> SOMEONE has to come up with a solution.
>
> > Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
> > solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
> > implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
> > branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
> > thread.
>
> > Solutions:
>
> > Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
> > for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
> > down by everyone.
>
> > Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
> > Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
> > illegals, they'll stop coming.
>
> > Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
> > they encounter.
>
> > Deport those that are found
>
> > Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely with
> > satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like, we can
> > make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In fact, this
> > would solve much of our problem in Iraq.
>
> Nope, the cost of doing that is unaffordable and you would
> need FAR more apes in boots than you have there now too.

Unaffordable? We're spending hundreds of billions of dollars on
Iraq. It will be into the trillions before it's over. And
investing in cheap aircraft like drones, as well as some land sensors
is too much? Nice that you refer to our men in uniforms as apes.
Really shows a lot about who you are and what your values are. And
in the case of Iraq, which is a war zone, who says you need men on the
ground? Anyone seen trying to cross borders anywhere other than
authorized checkpoints can be taken out by a missle from a drone, an
airstrike from a fighter, or some lethal automatic weapons on the
ground. With today's technology, none of that is far fetched.
What's needed is some shift in budget from fighting using conventional
tactics to alternative means, ie technology to secure borders.

>
> > If you can secure the borders,
>
> Have you the remotest concept of how much border Iraq actually has ?

Have you the remotest idea of how far the moon is? We went there and
back 3 decades ago. The same technology that did that, gave us
stealth aircraft, and satellites that can read license plates can
surely put in place high tech solutions to monitor borders a hell of a
lot better than it's being done now. The CIA put a missle up the ass
end of a car in the Sudan from a drone, after actually identifying the
occupants, didn't they? And Iraq is particulalry easy because it
ain't a jungle, to get in there you have to cross mostly open desert.

>
> > then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to Iraq
>
> Pure fantasy. Even an Iraeli type wall wouldnt achieve that.
>
> > and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.
>
> Pure fantasy given what happened when Iraq army was shut
> down and what happened to all the stuff they had at that time.- Hide quoted text -
>

If you read the news instead of the funny papers, you;d know that most
of the deaths being inflicted on US troops are from modern shaped
charges that cut through vehicle armor, which are coming from Iran,
not from some left over crap that Sadam had.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 8:07 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
trader4@optonline.net wrote:

> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> > "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
> >
> > > In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
> > > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
> > >> Do you have a workable plan?
> >
> > > Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
> > > until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will do my
> > > damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be done
> > > at all."
> >
> > I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry can tell
> > me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to hear about
> > a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>
>
> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
> solution to the problem.
>
>
>
>
> If you
> > believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to solving the
> > problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE has to come
> > up with a solution.
>
> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
> thread.
>
> Solutions:
>
>
> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
> down by everyone.
>
> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
> illegals, they'll stop coming.
>
> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
> they encounter.
>
> Deport those that are found

Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any city, county or
state that undermines federal law by implementing "sanctuary" policies.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 8:15 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> >> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and
> >> Harry can tell me about what they see as a problem. It does
> >> very little good to hear about a problem if they do not have
> >> a solution to the perceived problem.

> > Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
> > boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
> > cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
> > boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
> > solution to the problem.

> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either, so
> telling him about the problem does not solve the problem.

But according to your logic (or your brilliant boss's logic), the worker
who discovered the problem shouldn't even mention it unless he has a
solution ready to go.

> > Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
> > Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
> > illegals, they'll stop coming.
> >
>
> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem.
> First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring
> these people.

You can't stop people from murdering each other, either. But we still
have laws against it and we enforce those laws when people break them.

And just to head off the lackbrain that will inevitably chime in that he
can't believe I'm comparing/equating illegal immigration to murder, I'm
not. Read very slowly and carefully and you'll discover that I'm not
actually making a comparison or an equivalency at all.

> > Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal
> > aliens that they encounter.
>
> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.

So basically trader was right: there are solutions, there's just no
political will to implement them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What happened to surface mail shipping overseas?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e3751aa3d845f2e1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 4:37 pm
From: "joe brown"

clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
> Chloe wrote:
>
>> "clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
>> news:RL8Pi.12839$bM6.7891@newsfe20.lga...
>>
>>
>>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> It does, your illegally uses media mail to ship comics, >that why
>>>>> there is such a large discrepancy between the >two numbers,
>>>>> compare priority mail with international >priority mail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Media mail is perfectly legal for comics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Obviously, you've convinced yourself.
>>>
>>> Just because you've been able to cheat the system, doesn't mean it's
>>> correct.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I don't understand why comic books wouldn't fit the media mail
>> criteria. Could you please explain?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Comic books typically have more than incidental advertising.
>
>
> " Media Mail(r) service is a cost efficient way to mail books, sound
> recordings, recorded video tapes, printed music, and recorded
> computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes). Media Mail
> can not contain advertising except for incidental announcements of
> books."
>
> "Bound Printed Matter is material that consists of advertising,
> promotional, directory, or editorial material that is securely bound
> (not loose-leaf binders), consists of sheets of which at least 90
> percent are imprinted by a process other than handwriting or
> typewriting, contains no personal correspondence and is not stationery
> (such as pads of blank printed forms)."

Clearly comic books are included in the second one because
advertising is fine when its bound and its clearly all printed.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 5:03 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:57:41 -0700, Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:38:11 -0400, "Evelyn C. Leeper"
><eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>Remember when you had to pay extra for air mail for regular letters?
>>You don't? Oh, well, now I feel old. :-) (It was 1973, by the way.)
>
>I remember red white and blue envelopes that said "Par Avon" on them.
>
>Dennis (evil)

I got a few where the envelope unfolded and the letter was written on
the inside of the thin envelope. I think it was delivered by the
Socony horse, or maybe it was Rudolph.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 5:05 pm
From: "Lou"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:feimup$57q$1@aioe.org...
> Were they really subsidized? After all, shipping on a boat SHOULD be a
> lot cheaper. The boat is shipping hundreds of times more volume per
amount
> of fuel spent. Yes, it is slow, but is also much more efficient. If it
> isn't more costly to fly, then why don't all of those cheap Chinese
imports
> get flown over here? They come by boat, because it is much cheaper.
>
> I'm thinking that the U.S. postal service didn't get rid of those sea
> routes because they were losing money, or because they were subsidized. I
> believe they got rid of the inexpensive route as a way to force people to
> use their more expensive and profitable routes. After all, if it's the
only
> option offered, then they make a whole lot of money - environment be
damned,
> evidently.
>
> Makes it impossible for people like me to use the more environmentally
> friendly, inexpensive method. We may have free trade agreements, but now
> they are more for the huge corporations, and not for the common man.
>

The thing here is, you don't know what the actual cost (as opposed to the
rate you were charged) was, or whether or not there was a subsidy. And
neither do I. But you are imagining things, and then treating your
imaginations as though they were fact.

I can easily imagine that if you can fill up a sizeable fraction of a cargo
container vessel, it's cheaper to ship things by boat. I can also imagine
that a pile of comic books bought by an individual might measure a couple of
feet high, and such a small package could easily be lost in the shuffle. I
also imagine that the container vessels that ply the China/US trade routes
do so across the Pacific, and don't come anywhere near England, and that
whatever the cost of shipping something by boat between Asia and North
America, it has little or nothing to do with the cost of shipping between
North America and Europe.

I notice there are shipping companies that will charge around $200 to ship
30 kg from the US to England. I don't know what a comic book weighs, but
assuming 1 ounce apiece, that works out to around roughly 1,000 comic books,
less packaging. Very roughly 20 cents each.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 6:00 pm
From: "bungalow_steve@yahoo.com"

On Oct 10, 1:42 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> >It does, your illegally uses media mail to ship comics, >that why there is
> >such a large discrepancy between the >two numbers, compare priority mail
> >with international >priority mail.
>
> Media mail is perfectly legal for comics. I don't know why some people
> think it isn't. Note that the restriction "can not contain advertising"
> means that it can not be items with the exclusive intention to be used as
> advertising, such as fliers, etc. This does NOT mean you can't ship a book
> with an ad in it, or a magazine with one of those fall-out renewal notices.
>
No it doesn't, read the website.

> From the USPS website:
>
> Media Mail
> Formerly (and colloquially, still) known as "Book Rate", Media Mail is used
> to send books, printed materials, sound recordings, videotapes, CD-ROMs,
> diskettes, and similar, but cannot contain advertising.

and there it is.

Maximum weight is 70
> pounds (31.75 kg).
>
> a.. Delivery standards are 5-9 business days
> b.. Rates based on weight
> c.. Much cheaper than Parcel Post, and roughly the same transit time from
> point "A" to point "B"
> d.. Postage can be paid using any method except precanceled stamps
>
> Bound Printed Matter
> Same as Media Mail but it is used to mail permanently-bound sheets of
> advertising,

yep, comics are bound printed matter

promotional, directory or editorial material such as catalogs
> and phonebooks. It may be slightly cheaper than Media Mail rates.
> Observations:
>
> a.. Package can weigh up to 15 lb.
> b.. Sheets must be permanently-bound by secure fastenings such as staples,
> spiral binding, glue or stitching.
> c.. At least 90% of the sheets must be imprinted by any process other than
> handwriting or typewriting.
> d.. Mail must be marked "return service requested" to receive
> undeliverable back. Mail without this marking will be disposed of.
> e.. Postage may be applied by PC postage, permit imprint, or stamps, but
> cannot be bought at a retail counter, effective May 14, 2007.
>
> I would prefer to use Bound Printed Matter rate instead of Media Mail,
> since it is more specific to what I am sending.

Yes your right.

However, Paypal's online
> shipping service does not offer it as an option. As such, I and the
> thousands of others who ship magazines, books, comics, etc. online using
> Paypal's free online postage shipping must choose Media Mail as an
> all-in-one choice for written or recorded media of any kind.
>

here we go, blame paypal and the herd of others that do it

> Realize, however, that just because there is one item that could be
> construed as advertising inside an item does not mean the same as saying you
> are shipping advertising related materials. This distinction merely ensures
> that Media Mail is not being used to subsidize the shipping of advertising
> materials such as signs and posters by large companies.

It sounds like you going to convince yourself of whatever suits you,
but again, media mail cannot contain any advertising other then book
annoucements, USPS is clear about this, here is a more descriptive
rule of media mail and advertising

..............
Content Standards
Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail rates:

a. Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at
least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or
scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces
for notations and containing no advertising matter other than
incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid
advertising and the publishers' own advertising in display,
classified, or editorial style.
.............................
can't get anymore clear then that, eh?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 8:57 pm
From: Derald

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote:

>I don't understand why comic books wouldn't fit the media mail criteria.
>Could you please explain?
Comics that do not contain advertising and that consist of more
than eight pages do fit; those that do or don't, don't. OP's wishfully
home-grown qualification notwithstanding, the USPS is quite specific:
http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/senditwithintheus/mediamail.htm
and, as you see, presents only one exception.

A more comprehensive definition and description may be found in
subsections 2.1 - 2.5 of subchapter 473 of the USPS Domestic Mailing
Manual:
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/473.htm

ss 2.2.a. is explicit:
>...and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of
>books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers' own advertising
>in display, classified, or editorial style.

Media Mail service is intended to help supplant the old Book Rate
as a low-priced, minimal-service utility for scholars, libraries,
academic institutions, publishers, etc. and not as a commercial or
business class intended for commercial use. Of course, the contents
limitations are intended to discourage lowballers from conducting and/or
soliciting business via Media Mail.
AFAIK, out-of-date periodicals containing ads must mail Parcel Post
or First Class/Priority. There is some sort of surface-air hybrid
international service, available from USPS, that DW occasionally uses to
mail books to Sweden and to England but I don't know what it's called.
--
Derald

==============================================================================
TOPIC: They turned my electricity off! Geez . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c205655129881297?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 4:58 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:07:14 -0700, Meghan Noecker
<friesian@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote:

>Sometimes, the problem is not a company problem, but some freak
>occurence inside the house.

Soul Surgeon?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 6:56 pm
From: George Grapman

Don K wrote:
> "Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:GRZOi.2221$lD6.919@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>> I went home tonight, and lo and behold, the power is off to my humble domicile. The
>> adjacent apartments have power, so something's up.
>>
>> Sheesh . . .
>>
>> As far as I can remember, I've paid my bills . . . so, I went to the Texas Public
>> Utility Commission website, and buried deep within its pages is this little blurb under
>> the heading "Disconnections:"
>
> Don't jump to the conclusion that it's disconnected.
> 1. Check the circuit breaker panel, if any, inside your apartment.
> 2. Call the utility and tell them you have no power.
> 3. Notify the apartment management you have no power.
>
> It's not likely an administrative problem.
>
> Don
>
>
This thread reminds me of a great Jimmy Breslin column. After a
widespread power outage in New York he wrote about a man who come home
to dark apartment and assumes he was cut off for non-payment. Friends
call him up and ,not wanting them to know his supposed situation, he
told them he was watching tv/reading the paper/cooking dinner.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I found out why they turned off my power . . . Ugh . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04c146e71535a898?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 5:45 pm
From: "Tockk"

To make a long story short, it turns out it was an administrative error.

Last year, I filled out a form to switch my electricity provider. My
complete address was on it. But, when they put my address on their
records, they didn't copy my apartment number. Nevertheless, I got the
bills for the first 6 months or so, whereupon I prepaid a few month's
electric (I thought, simpler to write one check for $100 than 3 checks for
$33--yes, my electric bills are that small).

Well, for some unknown reason, they kept addressing my bill the same way,
without the apartment number, but someone kept sending it back to the
electric company. So I never got them, or the disconnection notice.
However, when they sent someone out to disconnect the power, those people
knew which apartment to go to.
I dunno why the power company didn't check the address on the returned
mail, against the same records that the guy who pulled the plug looked at.

Anyway, I talked to a nice lady at the power company this morning, and she
said they will turn my power back on for a turn-on fee of $100 - $200, plus
I had to pay 3 month's deliquent amount of $103. I paid the $103, they're
gonna bill me for the turn-on fee. I was nice to the lady, and she said,
"Let me check to see if the people who will turn your power on have the
complete address." She looked (on her terminal), and yes, they had the
complete address.
So, yes, somebody at the electric company could have checked my address
against another database, fixed their records, and prevented this entire BS.

For right now, I'm hopeful that when I go home tonight, the power will be
on. And after that's done, I'm gonna get the turn-on fee waived 'cause the
whole thing was their fault. And then see if I can get them to replace the
contents of my refrigerator.

Ugh. Craziness.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 6:18 pm
From: Meghan Noecker

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:45:35 GMT, "Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>To make a long story short, it turns out it was an administrative error.
>
>Last year, I filled out a form to switch my electricity provider. My
>complete address was on it. But, when they put my address on their
>records, they didn't copy my apartment number. Nevertheless, I got the
>bills for the first 6 months or so, whereupon I prepaid a few month's
>electric (I thought, simpler to write one check for $100 than 3 checks for
>$33--yes, my electric bills are that small).
>

>For right now, I'm hopeful that when I go home tonight, the power will be
>on. And after that's done, I'm gonna get the turn-on fee waived 'cause the
>whole thing was their fault. And then see if I can get them to replace the
>contents of my refrigerator.
>

You might be able to get them to waive the fee since the notices were
sent incorrecty. But it sounds like you were unaware that you were
behind on your bill. You might want to get a calendar program and make
sure that you keep track so that you can't get behind again.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 6:44 pm
From: "Tockk"

Oh ya, I forgot one thing . . .

It seems that here in Texas, they can't turn your power off until they tell
you, in writing, what they're about to do. Since the post office sent the
mail back, of course I didn't get their message, and it seems to me that
they didn't comply with Texas law on that. Could they have? Sure, they
managed to get the power shut off on the right apartment.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal living in the Philadelphia region.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f9b7b62eea6848da?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 5:48 pm
From: Joe

Some of this applies to others regions, too.

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ron Paul...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eb674cb08f954f60?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 6:13 pm
From: gfretwell@aol.com

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:35:01 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>> Unfortunately the feds use "the 14th amendment" to justify most of
>> their mandates, like the "right" to be arrested for medical marijauna
>> even when the state says it is legal.
> Actually that is much better through the Interstate Commerce clause.
>It has always been well settled that medication decisions rest with the
>FDA and the federal government.

"Always" since FDR anyway. The founders did not have that idea and it
certainly is not in the interstate commerce clause. A lot of "medical"
things never cross a state line.

>Especially since the current state of
>the literature in medical marijuana makes the research behind Vioxx,
>etc., look pristine in comparison.
> Most of the people in favor of medical mj would be howling at the
>moon if Big Pharm tried to push through a "regular medication" with such
>iffy backing.

The difference is people should be allowed to make that decision, not
the government. The problem is Merck spent many millions in campaign
contributions and advertising bucks to be sure their product got out
there and was "approved" ... whatever that means. The real drug
pushers are companies like Merck, Pfizer, Glaxo and SK. Most "drug
abuse" is drugs that are prescribed by a Dr Feelgood and bought from
the store, usually by insurance.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: best price on 2 GB SD card?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3e1069e27c061244?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 7:18 pm
From: turtlelover

Don K wrote:
> "turtlelover" <turtlelover@DONOTenter.net> wrote in message
> news:470d154b$0$7218$cd3e3bf6@news.enter.net...
>
>>Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>>
>>>turtlelover wrote:
>>>
>>>You might try asking in your local Freecycle group--people may have them lying around
>>>because they don't use anything that small anymore.
>>
>>Thanks for the suggestion, but I've already tried Freecycle. I guess it wouldn't hurt
>>to try again!
>
>
> I set up the local freecycle to forward everything as email, and set up a message rule
> to put it all into a freecycle folder.
>
> When I'm looking for something-in-particular from freecycle I insert another
> message rule that will execute first and put it into a freecycle-look folder.
> You would do this by searching for keywords in the subject line such as
> 64MB or card or Olympus, etc.
>
> I most recently did this when my daughter needed to replace her dryer. It took
> about 3 months, but one eventually showed up. Actually a whole bunch of
> dryers started showing up all at once, but she only needed the one.!
>
> Don
>
>

I already have the messages sent as a digest, so I guess I should first set it up for individual emails. Eek! We're a needy bunch where I live, so this could get out of hand. Thanks for the suggestion, Don!

Cheers,
Turtlelover

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fast and Easy Money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6ba154179a414dd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 7:41 pm
From: mayvis

FAST AND EASY MONEY!
Forum: HyperNews Source
Re: B5.7 when? and speed question...
Re: RSN - time is money (Daniel M LaLiberte)
Re: Honesty Pays big! Turn $6 into $6000 quick and easy (chris)
Date: 2003, Sep 01
From: dg

Re: Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ Posted by phyllis m. whiddon
<phyllisamp@earthlink.net> on July 18, 19103 at 21:46:47:
In Reply to: Re: Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ posted by phyllis m.
whiddon on July 18, 19103 at 21:17:47:

Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ Posted by Brook on June 03, 19103 at
14:59:13:

$MAKE LOTS OF QUICK CASH THE EASY WAY$$ Dear Internet User, Good day,
This article I've written is all about the fact where I earned an
ASTOUNDING amount of money in less than a month and I've decided to
share or reveal the secrets behind making big bucks in the Mail Order
Business. So all money seekers, read this carefully. **READING THIS
COULD CHANGE YOUR LIFE!** I found this on a bulletin board like this
one and decided to try it. A little while back, I was browsing through
several newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article
similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars within
weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00! So I thought, "Yeah
right, this must be a scam", but like most of us, I was curious, so I
kept reading. Anyway, it said that you need to send $1.00 to each of
the 6 names and address stated in the article. You then place your own
name and address in the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article
in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands) No catch, that was
it. So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I
thought about trying it. I figured: "what have I got to lose except 6
stamps and $6.00, right?" Then I invested the measly $6.00. Well GUESS
WHAT!!... within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was
shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming
in. In my first week, I made about $25.00. By the end of the second
week I had made a total of over $1,000.00! In the third week I had
over $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and
I have made just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in rapidly.
It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I have spent more than that
on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most importantly,
why it works.... Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW,
so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you
that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making
more money than you thought possible by doing something so easy!
SUGGESTION: Read this entire message carefully! (print it out or
download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come
in! It's easy. It's legal. And, your investment is only $6.00 (Plus
postage). IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is
not illegal; and it is virtually no risk - it really works!!!! If all
of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive
extraordinary dividends. PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions
EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This
program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the
participants. Please continue it?s success by carefully adhering to
the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business.
In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it's a
service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many
large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists.
However, the money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the
income which is made from people like you and me asking to be included
in that list. ========================================== -->HERE ARE 4
EASY STEPS TO GET STARTED<-- STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper
and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR
MAILING LIST." Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of
the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the
envelope ( Please make sure that the bill wouldn't be noticed in the
envelope to prevent thievery). Send out US $ DOLLAR, so it would be
more acceptable. STEP 2: Next, place one paper in each of the 6
envelopes and seal them properly. You should now have 6 sealed
envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the phrase, "PLEASE PUT
ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST.", your name and address, and a $1.00 bill.
What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!
You are requesting for a legitimate service and you are paying for it!
Like most of us, I was a little skeptical and a little worried about
the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post
Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal!
Mail the US$6.00 to the following addresses:

1) Brandon Corbin 307N Church St Lancaster PA 17603

2) Lierin Quinn P.O. Box 242 Bausman PA 17504

3) L Middlebrook P.O. Box 2079 Beaverton Ontario Canada L0K 1A0

4) Phyllis M Whiddon 256, JD Road DeRidder LA 70634

5) D Goldring 1368 Kenton Road Parkville Maryland 21234

6) N. Cardinaletti P.O. Box 867 Warrenton oregon 97146

STEP 3: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the
other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as
number 6 on the list. STEP 4: Copy this article. Change anything you
need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as
possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups.
(I think there are close to 2.4million groups) All you need is 200,
but remember, the more you post, the more money you make! This is
perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18, Section
1302 and 1341, US Postal and Lottery Laws or Title 18, Section 3005 in
the US code, also in the code of Federal regulations, Volume 16,
Sections 255 and 436, which states; "a product or service must be
exchanged for money received." The simple note in the letter, "PLEASE
PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST", makes it legal because you are paying
for exchange of a service, (adding the purchasers name to his mailing
list) for a $1.00 fee. IMPORTANT: Keep a copy of these steps for
yourself and, whenever you need money, you can use it again, and
again. PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of
the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully
adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are of
integrity, the program will continue and the money that so many others
have received will come your way. NOTE: You may want to retain every
name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and
keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly
providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the $1
bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post
is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will
be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with one
dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that
when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands
of dollars in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 ($1.00 for
each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own
name to the list and you're in business!
=============================================== -->DIRECTIONS FOR HOW
TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS<-- Step 1) You do not need to re-type this
entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your mouse cursor at
the beginning of this letter, click and drag your cursor to the bottom
of this document, right click and select 'copy' from the edit menu.
This will copy the entire letter into the computer's memory. Step 2)
Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your mouse cursor at the top of
the blank page. Right click and from the 'edit' menu select 'paste'.
This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add
your name and postal address to the list. Step 3) Save your new
notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in
different settings, you'll always have this file to go back to. Step
4) Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various
newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.)
Step 5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new
message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste
from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that
everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a
particular group, click the "post" message button. You're done with
your first one! Congratulations...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is
jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of
it, it will take about a minute for each newsgroup! **REMEMBER, THE
MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU
HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** That's it! You will begin receiving
money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to
rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you will receive. If
you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as
the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE
CORRECT.** ======================================= *Now the WHY part;
Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low
example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now,
each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200
postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each
of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each
make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I
will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn
around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5
replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the
fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my
name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me
$3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200
newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still ONLY 5 persons per 200
newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original
investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the
list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out
another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6
again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is: do you
realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the
internet and reading these articles everyday?, JUST LIKE YOU are now!!
So, can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...
People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you
the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there
are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the
internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?
Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands
of those joining the actual internet!!! REMEMBER, PLAY FAIRLY AND
HONESTLY AND THIS WILL WORK FOR YOU!!! GOOD LUCK to all and please
play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is tons of
extra CASH. By the way, please DON'T try to deceive people by posting
the messages with your name in the list and not sending the CASH to
the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get any. This
is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the
wealth of the world without costing anything but our time!!! You also
may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future cash. Make sure
you print this article out RIGHT NOW! Also, try to keep a list of
everyone that sends you CASH and always keep an eye on the newsgroups
to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST
POLICY. IMPORTANT: If you're not interested to my article, (don't want
instant cash?), please pass this message to anyone who wishes quick
money. Thank you so much. =======================================

Responses:

Re: Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ Alex 12:14:28 7/01/103 (0)
Re: Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ clodhopper 15:14:49 6/03/103 (1)

CHECK THIS OUT HERE 20:42:07 7/05/103 (0)
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Responses: HEY MAKE MONEY HERE! RICH 02:22:14 8/09/103 (0)

Re: Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ JC 18:42:29 8/04/103 (0)
Re: Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ Kevin Bomysoad 16:45:02 8/03/103 (0)
Re: Make Money Fast and Easy$$$ chad 05:12:19 7/29/103 (0)

Have you ever made $42000 in only 6 weeks J Willard 11:52:54 7/24/103
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Apples
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/408e635a462df7fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 8:11 pm
From: shinypenny

On Oct 10, 11:09 am, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "I made 400 yuan when I planted corn and wheat," Mr. Wang said,
> recalling the time in the 1980's before he transformed his one-acre
> field into an apple orchard. "Now, I make 5,000 yuan. And in some
> years 10,000." (One yuan is worth about 12 cents.) In the best of
> times, some apple growers in Lining said they made 50,000 yuan.

Heh. Corn and wheat have long been subsidized by the U.S. gov't. We
could easily be accused of dumping our surplus for cheap on the rest
of the world.

So the chinese have learned to play our own game, but with fruit
instead of carbs. Good for them.

jen

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 11:22 am
From: clams casino

OhioGuy wrote:

>>It does, your illegally uses media mail to ship comics, >that why there is
>>such a large discrepancy between the >two numbers, compare priority mail
>>with international >priority mail.
>>
>>
>
> Media mail is perfectly legal for comics.
>

Obviously, you've convinced yourself.

Just because you've been able to cheat the system, doesn't mean it's
correct.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 11:38 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

Brian Elfert wrote:
> "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> writes:
>
>> I do not support airmail. Sure, it is fast, but it is also a very
>> polluting and inefficient way to get things from place to place. You have
>> to expend fuel negating the force of gravity the whole way. A ship
>> overcomes gravity naturally, just because it weighs less than the water it
>> displaces. Ships also use Diesel fuel, which has 40% more energy per
>> gallon, and thereby pollutes less per mile travelled. Of course, the
>> environmental impact is only the lesser part of my frustration.
>
> Any plane delivering mail would have jet engines. Jet fuel is a less
> refined version of diesel. Jet fuel can be used in most diesel engines.
>
> A ship is certainly more efficient than a plane, but not simply because
> they use diesel fuel. A lot of ships actually use fuel oil and a fairly
> thick fuel oil at that.
>
> This is kinda like when I asked UPS about ground shipping to Hawaii and
> they basically laughed at me. I assumed they could use a ship to do
> ground shipments, but no, they only offer air shipping to Hawaii.

"Ground shipping" is probably more accurately termed "surface shipping"
or "surface mail".

We ordered a book from Nepal once, sent surface mail. It took five months.

Remember when you had to pay extra for air mail for regular letters?
You don't? Oh, well, now I feel old. :-) (It was 1973, by the way.)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
He who knows only his own side of the case
knows little of that. -John Stuart Mill

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 12:16 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:RL8Pi.12839$bM6.7891@newsfe20.lga...
> OhioGuy wrote:
>
>>>It does, your illegally uses media mail to ship comics, >that why there
>>>is such a large discrepancy between the >two numbers, compare priority
>>>mail with international >priority mail.
>>>
>>
>> Media mail is perfectly legal for comics.
>
>
> Obviously, you've convinced yourself.
>
> Just because you've been able to cheat the system, doesn't mean it's
> correct.

so movies these days doesn't contain advertising for upcoming movies or
advertising disguised as product placement? advertising is advertising.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 1:44 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
news:470d34bb$0$26407$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
> news:RL8Pi.12839$bM6.7891@newsfe20.lga...
>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>
>>>>It does, your illegally uses media mail to ship comics, >that why there
>>>>is such a large discrepancy between the >two numbers, compare priority
>>>>mail with international >priority mail.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Media mail is perfectly legal for comics.
>>
>>
>> Obviously, you've convinced yourself.
>>
>> Just because you've been able to cheat the system, doesn't mean it's
>> correct.
>
> I don't understand why comic books wouldn't fit the media mail criteria.
> Could you please explain?

i think comics contain ads in the pages.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 1:52 pm
From: clams casino

Chloe wrote:

>"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
>news:RL8Pi.12839$bM6.7891@newsfe20.lga...
>
>
>>OhioGuy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>It does, your illegally uses media mail to ship comics, >that why there
>>>>is such a large discrepancy between the >two numbers, compare priority
>>>>mail with international >priority mail.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Media mail is perfectly legal for comics.
>>>
>>>
>>Obviously, you've convinced yourself.
>>
>>Just because you've been able to cheat the system, doesn't mean it's
>>correct.
>>
>>
>
>I don't understand why comic books wouldn't fit the media mail criteria.
>Could you please explain?
>
>
>
>
Comic books typically have more than incidental advertising.

" Media Mail(r) service is a cost efficient way to mail books, sound
recordings, recorded video tapes, printed music, and recorded
computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes). Media Mail
can not contain advertising except for incidental announcements of books."

"Bound Printed Matter is material that consists of advertising,
promotional, directory, or editorial material that is securely bound
(not loose-leaf binders), consists of sheets of which at least 90
percent are imprinted by a process other than handwriting or
typewriting, contains no personal correspondence and is not stationery
(such as pads of blank printed forms)."

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 1:57 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:38:11 -0400, "Evelyn C. Leeper"
<eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:

>Remember when you had to pay extra for air mail for regular letters?
>You don't? Oh, well, now I feel old. :-) (It was 1973, by the way.)

I remember red white and blue envelopes that said "Par Avon" on them.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 3:27 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:gYaPi.340110$dA7.257130@newsfe16.lga...
> Chloe wrote:
>
>>I don't understand why comic books wouldn't fit the media mail criteria.
>>Could you please explain?

> Comic books typically have more than incidental advertising.
>
did you contact the usps to verify that comic books cannot be sent media
mail before posting? you're the one claiming he's cheating. maybe he
contacted them and was told it was fine.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nike Outlet Shop
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86b834644f17b4a5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dollars Stores and Liquid Soap
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0bed274e0c47e99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 11:31 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

larry wrote:
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>> Just another note on liquid soaps in dollar stores: Not only is it
>> cheaper than at the grocery (even if you are buying large refill
>> containers), but you can get "ordinary" soap (i.e., not
>> anti-bacterial). For people who think that using anti-bacterial soap
>> all the time is a bad time, this is useful to know.
>
> Watch prices carefully at Dollar General. After their buyout, nothing
> but another cashcow raid by KKR, they changed a lot of suppliers and
> jacked up prices by about 30%!!!

I don't even go to Dollar General or Family Dollar. In my opinion, they
are mis-using the word "dollar" in their names. (Heck, I don't even
like the dollar stores that have only two or three items priced more
than a dollar!)

Dollar Tree is probably the best chain, but we have mom-and-pop ones as
well around here (central NJ) that are pretty good.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
He who knows only his own side of the case
knows little of that. -John Stuart Mill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 5 Myths About Sick Old Europe
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef3efcef81294249?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 11:47 am
From: Mike

Blash wrote:
> in article feitdk$l00$1@news04.infoave.net, Mike at prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com
> wrote on 10/10/07 12:08 PM:
>
>> Blash wrote:
>>> in article feb1vf$hr7$1@news04.infoave.net, Mike at prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com
>>> wrote on 10/7/07 12:37 PM:
>>>
>>>> Blash wrote:
>>>>> Joe wrote on 10/7/07 5:26 AM:
>>>>>
>>>>>> They're better than the USA ... at least for anyone who's not filthy
>>>>>> rich.
>>>>> AHA!!! That explains why nobody is trying to get in the U.S.
>>>>> The border patrol is to stop people from leaving.......
>>>> The border patrol is keeping EUROPEANS out???
>>> Read it again S L O W L Y ! ! !
>> You, apparently, need to "[r]ead it again S L O W L Y ! ! !" The
>> original post was about Europeans and how they actually are better off
>> than Americans. YOU then started talking about the border patrol (who
>> basically cover the border between us and Mexico/Canada.) There IS no
>> "border" between us and Europe and thus the border patrol doesn't stop
>> THEM from entering and your "AHA!!! That explains why nobody is trying
>> to get in the U.S." made no sense as a response to the "[Europeans are]
>> better than the USA ... at least for anyone who's not filthy rich."
>>
>>
>
> Are all those who feel the overwhelming need to cross-post mentally
> challenged???

Noting how you xposted your response in this thread before I replied to
you, then I would say "yes, apparently, you are mentally challenged if
anyone is."

I also note how you couldn't respond to either of my posts other than to
make an ad-hom attack.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 1:30 pm
From: Blash

Mike at prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com wrote to:
misc.invest.stocks,
alt.military,
talk.atheism,
misc.consumers.
frugal-living,
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

> I also note how you couldn't respond to either of my posts other than to
> make an ad-hom attack.

Try posting to ONE N/G where you MAY be on topic....
Then, maybe you'll find someone who may care about your whining......
If you're just looking for sympathetic responses, call Dr. Phil.......

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 12:03 pm
From: USA1st

On Oct 10, 6:26 am, Jeff <dont_bug...@all.uk> wrote:
> Tockk wrote:
> > I went home tonight, and lo and behold, the power is off to my humble
> > domicile. The adjacent apartments have power, so something's up.
>
> > Sheesh . . .
>
> Utilities generally let you go for a couple of months before they take
> any action. It would be unualy for a disconnection after one month.
>
>
>
> > As far as I can remember, I've paid my bills . . . so, I went to the Texas
> > Public Utility Commission website, and buried deep within its pages is this
> > little blurb under the heading "Disconnections:"
>
> A little advice if you want it.
>
> Call them tomorrow and be nice, don't go quoting disconnect terms
> off the bat.
>
> Ask the agent for help. Tell him/her that your power was disconnected
> and you don't know why. Ask them to look into this and see what they can do.
>
> They will want to help you if you ask for it and don't agravate them.
> They get a lot of agravation and they have boiler plate ways of dealing
> with that.
>
> Now as far as your email, I've never found that emailing any company
> does much of any good, let alone emailing a utility!
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----------------
> > Prior to disconnecting your service, your REP must provide you with a
> > written Disconnection Notice. This notice must be mailed to you separately
> > (or hand-delivered) no earlier than the first day after the date your bill
> > is due. The disconnection date must be 10 days from the date the notice is
> > issued and may not fall on a holiday or weekend (or the day preceding)
> > unless the REP's personnel are available to take payments and service can be
> > reconnected.
> > -----------------
>
> > I sure didn't get any kind of disconection notice from these people . . .
>
> > Ugh!
>
> > Well, I just got through firing off an e-mail to the electric company (Green
> > Mountain), and you can bet I'll be talking to them first thing in the
> > morning, too.
>
> > Anyone ever in a similar situation? Were you tempted to shoot anyone?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

They don't let you go here. They send a bill with a payment due
date. If you don't pay it they send a disconnect notice and they cut
it off that day.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 1:30 pm
From: "cal2neb@gmail.com"

> My guess is that if the power company disconnected, it meant to
> disconnect someone else in the complex and got the wrong apartment.

This happens. I got my water turned off once when the utility meant
to turn off the neighbor's water. The valves were poorly marked.
Mistakes happen.

If you're cool with the power co. they'll be cool to you. If you come
in guns blazing, they'll hunker low and make sure you have an
experience worthy of your reaction.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 2:07 pm
From: "TKM"

"Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:GRZOi.2221$lD6.919@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>I went home tonight, and lo and behold, the power is off to my humble
>domicile. The adjacent apartments have power, so something's up.
>
> Sheesh . . .
>
> As far as I can remember, I've paid my bills . . . so, I went to the Texas
> Public Utility Commission website, and buried deep within its pages is
> this little blurb under the heading "Disconnections:"
>
> -----------------
> Prior to disconnecting your service, your REP must provide you with a
> written Disconnection Notice. This notice must be mailed to you separately
> (or hand-delivered) no earlier than the first day after the date your bill
> is due. The disconnection date must be 10 days from the date the notice is
> issued and may not fall on a holiday or weekend (or the day preceding)
> unless the REP's personnel are available to take payments and service can
> be reconnected.
> -----------------
>
> I sure didn't get any kind of disconection notice from these people . . .
>
> Ugh!
>
> Well, I just got through firing off an e-mail to the electric company
> (Green Mountain), and you can bet I'll be talking to them first thing in
> the morning, too.
>
> Anyone ever in a similar situation? Were you tempted to shoot anyone?

Sounds like a tripped breaker or other technical problem to me too.

Find your electric meter. Put your ear on the glass. Most types make a
buzzing or humming noise if there is power at the meter. If not, the
problem could be a bad connection in the feed lines. I've had that
experience and once waited half a day thinking the power was off when it was
just a fault in my service line. Of course, check fuse box/breakers too as
others have said.

TKM

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 2:07 pm
From: Meghan Noecker

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:55:00 -0400, clams casino
<PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:

>Tockk wrote:
>
>>I went home tonight, and lo and behold, the power is off to my humble
>>domicile. The adjacent apartments have power, so something's up.
>>
>>
>>Anyone ever in a similar situation? Were you tempted to shoot anyone?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>We once came home from a week's vacation, only to find we had no power.
>Our neighbors had no problems and the street light our front was glowing.
>
>Something ate through the overhead power line leading to the house. We
>were told it was likely a squirrel.

I had a similar experience with my phone line. It suddenly quit, and I
h ad no idea why. My bill was fine, and my parents' phone line worked
fine. My dad said to call teh phone company and complain, but I didn't
want to risk a bill for repair if the problem was inside the house.
So, I asked him to check the line outside first, and we confirmed that
the line was working. So, we started tracing the wires. Turns out
there was a wire going to a phone jack that wasn't being used, and my
dad had accidentally cut it a few days earlier when working on
something else in the ceilling. It had taken that long for the wires
to cross and short out., Once he unhooked that wire, my phone line was
working.

Sometimes, the problem is not a company problem, but some freak
occurence inside the house.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 2:52 pm
From: "Don K"

Don't jump to the conclusion that it's disconnected.
1. Check the circuit breaker panel, if any, inside your apartment.
2. Call the utility and tell them you have no power.
3. Notify the apartment management you have no power.

It's not likely an administrative problem.

Don

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turn your computer into a cash machine!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c79d2649db8b6e83?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 12:47 pm
From: rutgerskevin

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internet. Let's make some money together.

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: NICEOFFERS.COM program forAffiliates who markets Internationally
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2928c72b00c8503a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 1:42 pm
From: Duke

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 1:45 pm
From: Rico Yungblud

On Oct 7, 9:06 pm, rdad...@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:
> < Ron Paul gibberish snipped )
>
> I am a conservative Republican and have always voted as one.
> If Ron Paul were elected President, my advice is to sell all
> of your equity securities (stocks) and invest everything in
> debt securities (bonds) because the stock market will drop
> and interest rates will rise. IMRHO this guy is several
> fries short of a Happy Meal.
>
> Dick

Yeah, only a loon would actually promise to keep his oath of office
instead of doing the opposite.

I predict that no matter who is elected, at some point the stop market
will drop and interest rates will rise.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Installing drain pipe for rain run-off
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/91fbb0eb10110c68?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 2:26 pm
From: "Dennis"

I have no idea how I came up with that, correct answer would be around 33
gpm.

(New calculator, still have figured the blasted thing out. Somehow it took
16 and squared it, when 16 was already a square. Everything seems backward -
best excuse I can think of....)

The Dewalt formula is simply listed as gallons per minute through a pipe. It
doesn't give the type of pipe (roughness or corrosion) so I would tend to
believe that the .0408 takes the worst case into consideration which would
correlate to the low figure being generated.

> 500 gpm seems like a rather high flow rate for gravity flow in a 4"
> plastic pipe with a drop of 1/4" per foot.
>
> If my calcs are correct....500 gpm thru a 4" pipe yields about 12 ft/
> sec not 2 ft/sec
>
> at 2 ft/sec, completely full, the 4" pipe, the pipe will flow ~80
> gpm....
>
> I haven't done the gravity flow calcs for a 4" pipe at 1/4" per ft but
> I'm guessing its more like 50 gpm max (just a WAG).
>
> Like I said, I haven't done the calcs, but my 3" drainline with ~1/4"
> per foot drop easily handles the ~15 gpm output of a garden hose but I
> doubt if it would handle 15x that flow.
>
> After a lot of searching I found
>
> http://vylonpipe.com/brochures/plasticpipe.pdf
>
> page 15 gives the Manning formula for gravity flow......stumbling
> through the calcs at midnight, I got
>
> ~70 gpm for a 4" PVC line with a 1/4" drop per foot
>
> somebody please double check these numbers?
>
> cheers
> Bob
>
>
>

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 2:54 pm
From: me@privacy.net

>The KWorld box looks like it has a built-in speaker. Of course, some
>monitors also have built-in speakers, and the TV tuner boxes also switch
>that signal depending on whether you're viewing the TV or computer.

Wouldn't it be better to use a LCD HDTV as a computer
monitor than a computer monitor as a TV?

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 2:46 pm
From: "Don K"

"turtlelover" <turtlelover@DONOTenter.net> wrote in message
news:470d154b$0$7218$cd3e3bf6@news.enter.net...
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>> turtlelover wrote:
>>
>> You might try asking in your local Freecycle group--people may have them lying around
>> because they don't use anything that small anymore.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion, but I've already tried Freecycle. I guess it wouldn't hurt
> to try again!

I set up the local freecycle to forward everything as email, and set up a message rule
to put it all into a freecycle folder.

When I'm looking for something-in-particular from freecycle I insert another
message rule that will execute first and put it into a freecycle-look folder.
You would do this by searching for keywords in the subject line such as
64MB or card or Olympus, etc.

I most recently did this when my daughter needed to replace her dryer. It took
about 3 months, but one eventually showed up. Actually a whole bunch of
dryers started showing up all at once, but she only needed the one.!

Don

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TOPIC:

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/?hl=en
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