Frugal Living: Jan 1, 2008

Tuesday, January 1, 2008

25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Looking Back on 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/87e4dbc674eb5a06?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:19 pm
From: pc

Dawn wrote:
> Hello to the group,
> Today is a good day to look back and see how
> I did in my frugal life.
> I carried no credit card debt.
> I paid off the last bill that was not a mortgage or car.
> Started an emergency fund and have it almost funded for three months.
> Grew a hellacious garden and ate from it all summer which helped the
> grocery budget.
> Started making a few charitable donations, as I feel it is the right
> thing to do.
> The pantry is pretty well stocked and stays that way.
> Dawn, who lives frugal enough to go out and buy a mini cooper which
> gets 38 mpg with my driving.

Hi all. <waves to Dawn!>

My most frugal event of the year was redoing our kitchen. By really
researching all our options and doing all the work ourselves..we
estimate the kitchen cost 1/4 to 1/3 what it would have cost to have it
done. We also paid for it all with a points credit card that we
immediately paid off.

On a bit of a morbid note..one of my dogs passed away. He was fourteen,
a difficult dog with 'issues' his whole life. While I loved him dearly
and miss him terribly, his passing is saving us about $1000 per year.

With that extra money, I have been investing in stocks. I enjoy
learning about that and have done pretty well.

No garden here, Dawn..besides a few banana plants that are doing well.
I had grand plans for playing with hydroponics in 07. Maybe I'll get to
it in 08!

..PC

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best prepaid or "Pay As You Go" cel plan for occasional user?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4dee5a0b0a1d2906?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:24 pm
From: The Real Bev

SMS wrote:

> I don't find it any more difficult to dial the OneSuite or TalkLoop
> access number than dialing 1010xxx, and it's 2-2.5¢/minute. However you
> have to add $10 every six months.

Hey, I can't even remember my children's phone numbers!

--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't tax me. Don't tax thee. Tax that man behind the tree.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:29 pm
From: The Real Bev

Todd Allcock wrote:

> At 01 Jan 2008 17:09:02 +0000 Stephen King wrote:
>
>> > Or just buy a Tracfone or other prepaid one from a store, leave it
>> > unopened, and only activate it when you need it.
>>
>> help! help!
>> Killers are after me.
>> Please wait; I have to activate my phone.
>> LOL
>
> You must lead a far more interesting life than most of us, if te first
> "emergency" situation you envision is "killers are after me."

If there aren't serious consequences it's not an emergency, it's just a
nuisance.

> You'd think MI5'd pay for YOUR phone. :-)
>
> For the rest of us, the advice was ok. I imagine you have a few minutes to
> kill activating a phone for an emergency as mundane as "my car broke down."

That depends on where you are, how visible you are, and how fast cars or
hoodlums are approaching.

> Amazingly enough, mankind managed to crawl out of the muck and create
> nearly all of human acheivement in the 1,999,970 years before the invention
> of the cellular telephone.

Yeah, but Thag an Urg didn't have to worry about 18-wheelers coming at
them at 80 mph.

--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't tax me. Don't tax thee. Tax that man behind the tree.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 7:50 pm
From: SMS 斯蒂文• 夏

Todd Allcock wrote:

> For the rest of us, the advice was ok. I imagine you have a few minutes to
> kill activating a phone for an emergency as mundane as "my car broke down."

Probably not okay actually. Tracfones can be activated on-line, or by
calling a toll free number. However you should still be able to call 911
on an unactivated phone.

> Amazingly enough, mankind managed to crawl out of the muck and create
> nearly all of human acheivement in the 1,999,970 years before the invention
> of the cellular telephone.

One negative about the penetration of cell phones has been the wholesale
removal of pay phones. It's a lot harder to get buy without one now.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 7:50 pm
From: SMS 斯蒂文• 夏

The Real Bev wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> I don't find it any more difficult to dial the OneSuite or TalkLoop
>> access number than dialing 1010xxx, and it's 2-2.5Â¢/minute. However
>> you have to add $10 every six months.
>
> Hey, I can't even remember my children's phone numbers!

Me neither. I have them programmed into my contact list.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 9:47 pm
From: larry

SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:
> Todd Allcock wrote:
>
>> For the rest of us, the advice was ok. I imagine you have a few
>> minutes to
>> kill activating a phone for an emergency as mundane as "my car broke
>> down."
>
>
> Probably not okay actually. Tracfones can be activated on-line, or by
> calling a toll free number. However you should still be able to call 911
> on an unactivated phone.
>
>> Amazingly enough, mankind managed to crawl out of the muck and create
>> nearly all of human acheivement in the 1,999,970 years before the
>> invention
>> of the cellular telephone.
>
>
> One negative about the penetration of cell phones has been the wholesale
> removal of pay phones. It's a lot harder to get buy without one now.

"USA based, AT&T has announced plans to exit the shrinking
payphone business by the end of 2008. AT&T's Public
Communications unit has continued to experience significant
pressure from reduced payphone usage, primarily as a result
of the growth of mobile phones.

The company plans to phase out both public pay phones and
phones provided under contracts at government correctional
facilities through the end of next year. All customers will
receive advance notification of specific plans as well as
information on other potential providers and product options."

-- larry / dallas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0b1ba019129d06e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:27 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Please comment on Australian Crawl, the pop music band from the 1980's.

Wouldnt know who they were if they bit me on my bum.

> Also, where do you see copper and rare earth metals heading in 2008

I doubt there will be anything too dramatic except that the prices in USD terms
may well improve significantly if the USD continues to sag like it has done.

> I think we will see a major cash/credit crunch in 2008.

I dont. The sub prime fiasco certainly still has some way to run, but I dont see a major
cash/credit crunch, the fed has worked out how to handle those quite effectively.

> Maybe not so much in Pacific economies,

Yep, we've never been stupid enough to have our own sub prime fiasco.

The most we have seen is that some operations that chose to use mostly short
term funds for long term lending, have found the source of those funds has
dried up. Thats never been a very big percentage of the operations here tho.

> but we are global baby,

No we arent in that sense.

> so hold on.

I dont need to hold on. I'll do fine financially even if that does happen.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Budget Kit
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/33da4fea2fac1827?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:29 pm
From: clams_casino

tropicalparadise2u@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi, saw your post and would like to respond.
>
>
>
>This message is not spam
>Cheers
>
>Scott
>
>
>
But everyone knows 97.897665756% of all newsgroup postings via google
groups are spam.

The percentage is even higher when posted via gmail..

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FreebiesPl.us Spam
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f5b514c7e5534464?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:35 pm
From: The Real Bev

clams_casino wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> FreebiesPl.us wrote:
>>
>>> Free Werner ToolLasso with Beltclip
>>> http://www.freebies...
>>
>> Now I see what others are complaining about. You click on this
>> asshole's link and you get half a dozen (maybe more) new tabs/windows
>> popping up offering crap. Bastard ought to be shot.
>
> Which is exactly why abuse@abuse.earthlink.net wants to hear every time
> that abusive spammer posts their spam.

How many times have you turned the bastard in and how much good has it
done? I just sent several, but I'm not holding my breath.

--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't tax me. Don't tax thee. Tax that man behind the tree.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:14 pm
From: clams_casino

The Real Bev wrote:

> clams_casino wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> FreebiesPl.us wrote:
>>>
>>>> Free Werner ToolLasso with Beltclip
>>>> http://www.freebies...
>>>
>>>
>>> Now I see what others are complaining about. You click on this
>>> asshole's link and you get half a dozen (maybe more) new
>>> tabs/windows popping up offering crap. Bastard ought to be shot.
>>
>>
>> Which is exactly why abuse@abuse.earthlink.net wants to hear every
>> time that abusive spammer posts their spam.
>
>
> How many times have you turned the bastard in and how much good has it
> done? I just sent several, but I'm not holding my breath.
>
Every time he's listed.

None.

I'm wondering if Bellsouth finally got tired of the Best Freebies
complaints. Haven't seen their spam for a while.

Now if only there was a way to rid the world of the China spam.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Miss Manners: On collecting your tip money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/93b726c0a278fbc9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 4:20 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

It's the last letter.

http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainmentheadlines/ci_7842577?nclick_check=1

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I am a bartender for private parties and I work
for a wage and tips. My company does not allow us to put out a tip
jar, and I think when they book the parties, they let the customer
believe that our gratuity is included in the cost of the
party.........

Lenona.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:04 pm
From: invalid@notreal.none (Beachcomber)

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 16:20:37 -0800 (PST), lenona321@yahoo.com wrote:

>It's the last letter.
>
>http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainmentheadlines/ci_7842577?nclick_check=1
>
> DEAR MISS MANNERS: I am a bartender for private parties and I work
>for a wage and tips. My company does not allow us to put out a tip
>jar, and I think when they book the parties, they let the customer
>believe that our gratuity is included in the cost of the
>party.........
>
>

Well if the customer engaged the services of your company on that
basis... shouldn't you be getting your tip from your employer?

I know if I hired a bartender for my private party, I wouldn't want
you soliciting tips from my guests.

If you did a really great job... I would consider tipping you myself
discretely, and after the party.

Your company really needs to make clear what the terms are during the
sales presentation.

Beachcomber

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:26 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

On Jan 1, 9:04 pm, inva...@notreal.none (Beachcomber) wrote:

> Well if the customer engaged the services of your company on that
> basis... shouldn't you be getting your tip from your employer?
>
> I know if I hired a bartender for my private party, I wouldn't want
> you soliciting tips from my guests.

That's pretty much what MM said, and she had more to say. Click on the
link.

Lenona.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sorry Troll Shane
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d9fd81e0b416f45c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:04 pm
From: "Huge Wad Of Spit"

Troll Shame Him
Bigot & liar, retarded clown
see the link
http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?lnk=nhpsfg&hl=en&q=smokers&qt_s=Search+for+a+group
Copy and paste up where is shows that this is a

====> , a discussion group about smoking.

Maybe it's also a place for you cheapskates to congregate too...Eh?

Open you mouth sucker
<(:>{0} <=====
PaaaaHHAUUCKtouuiii
Naw Swaller....see it ain't too hard to learn to read.

Here's some of that cheapskate stuff you wanted...
& I got some 3 day old cookies over there...
They wash down OK with some chew....
or pansy's can use last weeks coffee.

Hey Cheapskates, Everything's free Here..
Paradise found.... You Cheapskate's can
furnish your entire flat for free.

If you want to know why shame him was never
participating in school, see this fools idea of
a tramp stamp. Even McDonalds had to get him
outta there.
The girls all ran when he scrubbed the Johnnie walls.

http://tinyurl.com/37874x

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/ap_on_re_us/freecycle_
flourishes_1;_ylt=Aitqv3mDtQcD5YhgacuJlLUE1vAI

Freecycle turns trash to treasure By VICKI SMITH, Associated Press Writer
Sat Dec 29, 12:57 PM ET

MORGANTOWN, W.Va. - When Laura Gernell heard about a place where people
gave away perfectly good things to strangers - no money changing hands, no
questions asked - she figured it was too good to be true.

But husband Ronald had lost his job as a truck driver and she was
temporarily unemployed, at home in a rented, unfurnished apartment with her
infant son. With nothing to lose, she joined The Freecycle Network, a
Web-based community swap program, and asked if anyone had a sofa to spare.

"I wasn't looking to furnish my whole apartment," says the 32-year-old mom
from Marmet, just south of Charleston. "I was just looking for the basics,
just something to sit on."

Three people e-mailed with offers, and Gernell used the sofa from that day
in 2004 until last summer, when the springs broke. Today she runs West
Virginia's largest Freecycle group, 2,100 members strong and part of a
far-flung forum where people can find homes for things they no longer want.

"It just has completely floored me, the generosity of people," says
Gernell. "Especially in West Virginia because West Virginia is considered
one of the poorest states in the nation. But people are very generous. It's
amazing."

Freecycle is a global recycling phenomenon. Since it started in Arizona in
May 2003, it has grown to more than 4 million members in more than 4,100
cities, from Istanbul to Inwood. It boasts of keeping more than 300 million
tons of trash out of landfills every day and has inspired imitators.

There are, says founder and executive director Deron Beal, as many
heartwarming stories as there are groups: the American Indian tribe that
collected used prom dresses for girls in need; the Hurricane Katrina
evacuee who furnished a new home; the 98-year-old man who collects and
assembles bicycle parts, then gives what he's built to children; and the
woman in Austin, Texas, who collected items for an orphanage in Haiti, then
got FedEx to deliver the shipping container for free.

"It's just all sorts of countless acts of random kindness," says Beal, 40,
of Tucson, Ariz. "Whatever they want to make out of it, they really can."

Call them corny. Call them cliche. But Freecycle is built on principles
that work: One person can make a difference. Giving is better than
receiving. One person's trash is another's treasure. Commit an act of
kindness and it will be returned.

"It's not like a get-rich-quick scheme. You're not going to get everything
you want every time you want it," Gernell says. "The more offers you post,
the better outcomes you're going to have."

Beal began his experiment with an e-mail to 30 or 40 friends, inspired by
his Dumpster-diving adventures on behalf of homeless men trying to get back
on their feet. When his nonprofit group's warehouse was full, he realized
he needed a new way to unload.

His network grew to 800 members almost overnight, after a newspaper story
started spreading the word.

"From the get-go, it absolutely snowballed, and we're basically doubling in
size every year," Beal says. About 30,000 people join weekly, with the
single largest group in London, some 40,000-strong.

Though Freecycle caught on first in progressive cities like Portland, Ore.,
San Francisco and Madison, Wis., Beal says Chicago, St. Louis and New York
followed quickly. Then word of mouth took over, with people in the cities
telling people in small towns.

"It's very much a viral sort of growth and randomly beautiful," he says.

It's also self-policing, patrolled by 10,000 volunteer moderators who
ensure that items are being swapped legally, and that all are G-rated.
Playboy collections and porn tapes are a no-no.

"West Virginia was probably one of the slowest states overall for it to
really pick up," Beal says, citing lack of Internet access as a likely
reason.

Earlier this year, the Public Service Commission estimated that less than
35 percent of West Virginia households had broadband service. A June survey
by the Communications Workers of America measured the state's median
download speed at 1.12 megabits, one of the slowest rates in the country.

However, West Virginia has more than two dozen Freecycle groups, with
thousands of members offering a service Gernell says many people need.

"Even at Salvation Army and Goodwill, you still have to pay for things,"
she says "With the cost of living the way it is and gas prices the way they
are, the prices there are still way more than some people can afford."

Heather Edwards, a moderator of the Martinsburg-Berkeley County group in
West Virginia's Eastern Panhandle, finds great deals for her four children,
who range from 9 months to 15 years old.

"I got a humongous plastic playhouse for the kids," she says. "It costs
about $400 new."

Edwards, 35, often drives to Hagerstown, Md., to gather her Freecycle
finds.

"They have everything from Sunday coupons to refrigerators," she says.
"Yesterday it was a whole dining suite - a table and six chairs."

She urges novices to post more offers than requests, to avoid being greedy
and to use common sense in arranging pickups to ensure personal safety.

Andi Bassett, a Morgantown mom with five children ages 20 months to 10
years, says she'll soon be donating a batch of baby clothes.

"The most appealing thing to me is finding someone who wants my 'junk,'
that it's useful to them and they are thankful for my unwanted stuff," she
wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "And the same is true of other
people's 'junk' that is useful to me: I am thankful for it. Freecycle just
puts people together."

"You got em smokem."

Go see what you can get for free Shame Him

"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-C3DCA5.18135401012008@comcast.dca.giganews.com...

>
> Once again, you make brash and incorrect assumptions. I am not in a
> competition with anyone, including Steve, nor do I care who is first to
> post on this, a discussion group about smoking.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:51 pm
From: Parulsham

On Jan 1, 8:04 pm, "Huge Wad Of Spit"
<WannaSwal...@CopenhagenSpat.Com> wrote:
> Troll Shame Him
> Bigot & liar, retarded clown
> see the linkhttp://groups.google.com/groups/dir?lnk=nhpsfg&hl=en&q=smokers&qt_s=S...
> Copy and paste up where is shows that this is a
>
> ====> , a discussion group about smoking.
>
> Maybe it's also a place for you cheapskates to congregate too...Eh?
>
> Open you mouth sucker
> <(:>{0} <=====
> PaaaaHHAUUCKtouuiii
> Naw Swaller....see it ain't too hard to learn to read.
>
> Here's some of that cheapskate stuff you wanted...
> & I got some 3 day old cookies over there...
> They wash down OK with some chew....
> or pansy's can use last weeks coffee.
>
> Hey Cheapskates, Everything's free Here..
> Paradise found.... You Cheapskate's can
> furnish your entire flat for free.
>
> If you want to know why shame him was never
> participating in school, see this fools idea of
> a tramp stamp. Even McDonalds had to get him
> outta there.
> The girls all ran when he scrubbed the Johnnie walls.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/37874x
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/ap_on_re_us/freecycle_
> flourishes_1;_ylt=Aitqv3mDtQcD5YhgacuJlLUE1vAI
>
> Freecycle turns trash to treasure By VICKI SMITH, Associated Press Writer
> Sat Dec 29, 12:57 PM ET
>
> MORGANTOWN, W.Va. - When Laura Gernell heard about a place where people
> gave away perfectly good things to strangers - no money changing hands, no
> questions asked - she figured it was too good to be true.
>
> But husband Ronald had lost his job as a truck driver and she was
> temporarily unemployed, at home in a rented, unfurnished apartment with her
> infant son. With nothing to lose, she joined The Freecycle Network, a
> Web-based community swap program, and asked if anyone had a sofa to spare.
>
> "I wasn't looking to furnish my whole apartment," says the 32-year-old mom
> from Marmet, just south of Charleston. "I was just looking for the basics,
> just something to sit on."
>
> Three people e-mailed with offers, and Gernell used the sofa from that day
> in 2004 until last summer, when the springs broke. Today she runs West
> Virginia's largest Freecycle group, 2,100 members strong and part of a
> far-flung forum where people can find homes for things they no longer want.
>
> "It just has completely floored me, the generosity of people," says
> Gernell. "Especially in West Virginia because West Virginia is considered
> one of the poorest states in the nation. But people are very generous. It's
> amazing."
>
> Freecycle is a global recycling phenomenon. Since it started in Arizona in
> May 2003, it has grown to more than 4 million members in more than 4,100
> cities, from Istanbul to Inwood. It boasts of keeping more than 300 million
> tons of trash out of landfills every day and has inspired imitators.
>
> There are, says founder and executive director Deron Beal, as many
> heartwarming stories as there are groups: the American Indian tribe that
> collected used prom dresses for girls in need; the Hurricane Katrina
> evacuee who furnished a new home; the 98-year-old man who collects and
> assembles bicycle parts, then gives what he's built to children; and the
> woman in Austin, Texas, who collected items for an orphanage in Haiti, then
> got FedEx to deliver the shipping container for free.
>
> "It's just all sorts of countless acts of random kindness," says Beal, 40,
> of Tucson, Ariz. "Whatever they want to make out of it, they really can."
>
> Call them corny. Call them cliche. But Freecycle is built on principles
> that work: One person can make a difference. Giving is better than
> receiving. One person's trash is another's treasure. Commit an act of
> kindness and it will be returned.
>
> "It's not like a get-rich-quick scheme. You're not going to get everything
> you want every time you want it," Gernell says. "The more offers you post,
> the better outcomes you're going to have."
>
> Beal began his experiment with an e-mail to 30 or 40 friends, inspired by
> his Dumpster-diving adventures on behalf of homeless men trying to get back
> on their feet. When his nonprofit group's warehouse was full, he realized
> he needed a new way to unload.
>
> His network grew to 800 members almost overnight, after a newspaper story
> started spreading the word.
>
> "From the get-go, it absolutely snowballed, and we're basically doubling in
> size every year," Beal says. About 30,000 people join weekly, with the
> single largest group in London, some 40,000-strong.
>
> Though Freecycle caught on first in progressive cities like Portland, Ore.,
> San Francisco and Madison, Wis., Beal says Chicago, St. Louis and New York
> followed quickly. Then word of mouth took over, with people in the cities
> telling people in small towns.
>
> "It's very much a viral sort of growth and randomly beautiful," he says.
>
> It's also self-policing, patrolled by 10,000 volunteer moderators who
> ensure that items are being swapped legally, and that all are G-rated.
> Playboy collections and porn tapes are a no-no.
>
> "West Virginia was probably one of the slowest states overall for it to
> really pick up," Beal says, citing lack of Internet access as a likely
> reason.
>
> Earlier this year, the Public Service Commission estimated that less than
> 35 percent of West Virginia households had broadband service. A June survey
> by the Communications Workers of America measured the state's median
> download speed at 1.12 megabits, one of the slowest rates in the country.
>
> However, West Virginia has more than two dozen Freecycle groups, with
> thousands of members offering a service Gernell says many people need.
>
> "Even at Salvation Army and Goodwill, you still have to pay for things,"
> she says "With the cost of living the way it is and gas prices the way they
> are, the prices there are still way more than some people can afford."
>
> Heather Edwards, a moderator of the Martinsburg-Berkeley County group in
> West Virginia's Eastern Panhandle, finds great deals for her four children,
> who range from 9 months to 15 years old.
>
> "I got a humongous plastic playhouse for the kids," she says. "It costs
> about $400 new."
>
> Edwards, 35, often drives to Hagerstown, Md., to gather her Freecycle
> finds.
>
> "They have everything from Sunday coupons to refrigerators," she says.
> "Yesterday it was a whole dining suite - a table and six chairs."
>
> She urges novices to post more offers than requests, to avoid being greedy
> and to use common sense in arranging pickups to ensure personal safety.
>
> Andi Bassett, a Morgantown mom with five children ages 20 months to 10
> years, says she'll soon be donating a batch of baby clothes.
>
> "The most appealing thing to me is finding someone who wants my 'junk,'
> that it's useful to them and they are thankful for my unwanted stuff," she
> wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "And the same is true of other
> people's 'junk' that is useful to me: I am thankful for it. Freecycle just
> puts people together."
>
> "You got em smokem."
>
> Go see what you can get for free Shame Him
>
> "Shawn Hirn" <s...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:srhi-C3DCA5.18135401012008@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Once again, you make brash and incorrect assumptions. I am not in a
> > competition with anyone, including Steve, nor do I care who is first to
> > post on this, a discussion group about smoking.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks
http://parulsharma.richblogs.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: purchasing affordable health insurance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b58a29235321185?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:08 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

someone@somedomain.invalid.com wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote
>
>> Which part of 'the new college I am moving to does not offer health
>> insurance
>> to international students like me' are you having a problem with ?
>
> I am moving from college A to college B. Presently, I have health
> insurance through College A, but when I move to college B it will not
> carry over as it was purchased as a group policy for college A students
> only by college A. College B does not have any such health insurance
> policies for its students, but requires its international students to
> have health insurance. If I want to keep the same insurance which college
> A provides me when I move to college B I have to get it as an individual
> it is expensive about 300-400 per month for premium.
>
> The problem is in finding a health insurance from a legitimate company
> for an affordable price(less than 100) if possible which treats claims
> properly so that I have health insurance for myself and to satisfy
> college B's transfer requirements.

See if your new school can give you a list of insurance providers. Even
if they don't provide insurance, they may be able to point you in the
right direction.

Alternatively, ask other international students at the new school for
suggestions.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How Do Work Boots Protect You
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ed2bea657fe29071?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:41 pm
From: " Frank"

> I did manage to get some welding slag between a couple of toes when
> welding over my head while up a ladder in summer when wearing the
> thongs and that was a complete yawn, no need for any ER.
>

I guess there is no need for you to use a helmet either, just like the way
they do it in some parts of Asia and Mexico.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Frank <noreplay@nothome.net> wrote:

>> I did manage to get some welding slag between a couple of toes when
>> welding over my head while up a ladder in summer when wearing the
>> thongs and that was a complete yawn, no need for any ER.

> I guess there is no need for you to use a helmet either, just like the way they do it in some parts of Asia and
> Mexico.

Yep, thats another complete wank with my single level house and me the only one doing the work.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy Cheap Miumiu Fendi Chanel Handbag on www.globwholesale.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b876356aa23d1ea8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Los Angeles Moving Companies
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/acd179879fcc0b16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 8:02 pm
From: linkswanted

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal XP
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/46f7727bbba8a63a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 8:24 pm
From: Logan Shaw

JL wrote:
>> I've had lots more fun with the Linux stuff than with usoft. I have
>> three computers at home, and I'd like to not have to purchase several
>> copies of whatever usoft puts out. You can get the Linux for free if
>> you are geeky, for modest prices in distributions if you are less
>> geeky.

> The Ubuntu or Kubuntu versions of Linux are absolutely free. And they
> will even mail you free copies of either on CD. You don't have to be
> too geeky to install Ubuntu/Kubuntu; it's automatic. About the same as
> installing Windows. The only hard part in using Linux used to be adding
> new software to it, but Ubuntu/Kubuntu has a package installer to do
> this automatically. You don't even need to learn the command line
> stuff, but of course it helps.

I'm using Ubuntu to post this, and I like it a lot (I'm a pretty big fan
of Unix and Linux in general), but there is one area where you are going
to, if my experience is any guide, have endless headaches: ATI video
cards. I have one, and after numerous attempts that have involved arcane
stuff like extracting archives and manually tweaking shell scripts so the
right set of files get installed, I *still* don't have accelerated video,
and my monitor also won't go into power-saving mode ever (unless I type
"xset dpms force suspend").

This all might have something to do with the fact that I installed the
amd64 (64-bit) variant, so I'm a tiny bit out of the mainstream. But
really, it's still kind of sad.

Having said all that, overall the distribution basically works great.
All of my other hardware has been supported seamlessly, OS installs and
upgrades really are as simple as a few mouse clicks, and the system
prompts me to install security and stability patches, which all so far
have worked without issue. And installing extra software is easy when
you use Synaptic Package Manager. The interface is a bit goofy since
the distinction between installed software and available software is
too subtle, but once you get used to that, it works great.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Paying Down Debt...Working at Home
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76e65c908fd6d77e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 8:51 pm
From: Donna

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in news:noeej.25623
$pq.12554@newsfe24.lga:

> maddy wrote:
>
>>Do you want to work at home to make money..there are a lot of scams
>>out there.... i am in debt 37K ...check out my website at
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Yours included?
>

I already work at home and I'm not in debt. Go spam the meat newsgroup.

--
~Donna
http://www.frugalsewing.com
Reduce, reuse, recycle, re-create.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 9:35 pm
From: maddy

On Jan 1, 10:51 pm, Donna <do...@exitstageleftcroakerwoods.com> wrote:
> clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in news:noeej.25623
> $pq.12...@newsfe24.lga:
>
> > maddy wrote:
>
> >>Do you want to work at home to make money..there are a lot of scams
> >>out there.... i am in debt 37K ...check out my website at
>
> > Yours included?
>
> I already work at home and I'm not in debt. Go spam the meat newsgroup.
>
> --
> ~Donnahttp://www.frugalsewing.com
> Reduce, reuse, recycle, re-create.

i am so sorry that i am in debt..and you are not..why are you on this
site anyway...

dave
http://www.pay-down-debt.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Follow My Debt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/12d96b5576def1fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 9:32 pm
From: maddy

Http://www.pay--down-debt.com

bookmark this...its a way for me to be inspired..possibly you can do
something like it also

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GPS/GSM
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/95bd9722229ab953?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 9:48 pm
From: ce91f787a@21cn.com

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==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Replica Chole handbag, replica chloe, Chloe replica
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/da8315999b41e119?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 12:16 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: M'I.5,Persecu tion , th e BB C, tel evision a nd ra dio
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c993a6759c8decf4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 12:26 am
From: evfvme@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=
-= the BBC, television. and radio -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=

The. first incident in June 1990 was when a BBC newsreader made what seemed
to be a reaction to something which had happened in. my home, and out of
context of what. they were reading. My first reaction was disbelief; nothing
of the sort had ever happened. before, the idea that such a thing could
occur had not crossed my mind, yet there was. no doubt of what had just
taken place.. My disbelief eroded as this recurred time after time. Besides
the news, offenders included shows such as. Crimewatch (!), Newsnight, and
"entertainment" shows. There seems to be very. little moral understanding
among the people who make these programmes; they just. assume they will
never be caught, so they carry on without a thought for the. illegality or
amorality of what. they do. The only time I ever heard a word raised in
doubt was. by Paxman being interviewed by someone else (I think by Clive
Anderson) back in. 1990; referring to the "watching" he said it troubled
him, and when asked by the host what you could do about. it, replied "Well,
you could just switch it off" (meaning the surveillance monitor. in the
studio). He. clearly didn't let his doubts stand in the way of continued
surreptitious spying. from his own or other people's shows, though.

Now you're convinced this is a troll, aren't you? This story has been. the
subject of much debate on the uk.* Usenet newsgroups for over. a year, and
some readers believe it to be an invention (it has even been. suggested that
a group of psychology students are responsible!), others. think it
symptomatic of a derangement of the author, and. a few give it credence.
Quite a. few people do know part or all of the story already, so this text
will fill in the gaps in their. knowledge. For the rest, what may persuade
you of the. third possibility is that some of the incidents detailed are
checkable against any archives of radio. and TV programmes that exist; that
the incidents involve named people (even if those hiding in. the shadows
have not. made their identity or affiliations evident), and those people
may be persuaded. to come out with the truth; and that the campaign of
harassment is continuing today both in. the UK and on the American
continent, in a none-too-secret fashion;. by its nature the significant risk
of exposure. increases with time.

On several occasions people said to. my face that harassment from the TV was
happening. On the first day I worked in Oxford, I. spent the evening in the
local pub with the company's technical director. Ian, and Phil, another
employee. Ian made a few references to me and said to Phil, as if in. an
aside, "Is he the bloke who's been on TV?". to which Phil replied, "Yes, I
think. so".

I made a number of efforts to. find the bugs, without success; last year we
employed professional. counter-surveillance people to scan for bugs (see
later) again without result. In autumn 1990 I disposed of my. TV and watched
virtually no television for the. next three years. But harassment from TV
stations has gone on for over six years and. continues to this day. This is
something that. many people obviously know is happening; yet the TV staff
have the morality of paedophiles, that because they're getting away. with it
they feel no. wrong.

Other people who were involved. in the abuse in 1990 were DJs on BBC radio
stations, notably disc jockeys from Radio 1 and. other stations (see the
following section). Again, since they. don't have sense in the first place
they can't be expect to have the moral sense not. to be part of criminal
harassment.

438

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M.I'5`Perse cution . bu gging an d co unter-surveillance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d4c13b8fe67323c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 12:53 am
From: mfmeif@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= MI5: bugging and counter-surveillance. -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

PO: >Did you ever look for the bugs in your house. ? If not, why not ? I mean if
PO: >I. thought that was happening to me, I'd search the place from top to bottom,
PO: >I mean I live there. I would know if anything was out of place. If I was
PO: >really suspicious, I would call in one of those. bug detection teams which
PO: >have those machines that pick up the transmitted radio waves.. This
PO: >reminds me of BUGS,. that new programme on BBC1 on

That's exactly what we did. We went to a competent,. professional detective
agency in London, paid them over 400 quid to debug. our house. They used
scanner devices which go to over 1 GHz and would pick up any. nearby
transmitter in that range, they also checked. the phones and found
nothing... but. if the tap was at the exchange, then they wouldn't find
anything,. would they?

CS: >Doesn't this suggest to you that there are, in fact, no bugs to. be found?

You can assume that they've done this. sort of thing to other people in more
"serious" cases, where they. would know the targets would suspect the
presence of electronic. surveillance. So they will have developed techniques
and devices which are not readily detectable. either by visual inspection or
by electronic means. What those. techniques might be, I couldn't guess.

In this case, the existence of bugging. devices was clear from the
beginning, and they "rubbed it. in" with what was said by the boy on the
coach. It was almost as if they wanted. counter-surveillance people to be
called in, who they knew. would fail to detect the bugging devices, causing
loss of credibility to the other things I. would have to say relating to the
harassment.

I did all. the things someone in my situation would do to try to find the
bugs. In addition to calling in professional help using. electronic
counter-surveillance, I made a close. visual inspection of electrical
equipment, plus any points where audio or video surveillance devices. might
have been concealed.. Of course, I found nothing. Normal surveillance
"mini-cameras" are quite noticeable and. require visible supporting
circuitry. It seems to me the best place to. put a small video surveillance
device. would be additional to a piece of electronic equipment such as a TV
or video. It would be necessary to physically break. in to a property to fit
such a. device.

2868

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M I.5,Per secution , C apital Radi o - C hris T arrant
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/51862b03e7af9976?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 1:20 am
From: fimveme@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=
-=. Capital Radio - Chris Tarrant -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=

Capital Radio DJs have. been "in on it" from the start. One of the first
things I heard in the summer of 1990 was from a Capital. DJ who said, "If
he listens to Capital then he can't be all bad" (supportive, you see.. We're
not bastards). Much of what came. over the radio in 1990 is now so far away
the. precise details have been obliterated by time. No diary was kept of the
details,. and although archives if they exist may give pointers, the
ambiguity of what broadcasters said would leave that. open to
re-interpretation.

In spring 1994, Chris. Tarrant on his Capital morning show made an aside to
someone else in the studio, about a person. he didn't identify. He said,
"You know this bloke? He says we're. trying to kill him. We should be done
for attempted. manslaughter".

That mirrored something I had said a day or two. before. What Tarrant said
was understood by the staff member in the studio he was saying it to;. they
said, "Oh no,. don't say that" to Tarrant. If any archives exist of the
morning show. (probably unlikely) then it could be found there; what he said
was so. out of context that he would be very hard put to find an explanation.
A couple of days later, someone at the site where I was working repeated. the
remark although in a different way; they said there had been people. in a
computer room when automatic. fire extinguishers went off and those people
were. "thinking of suing for attempted manslaughter".

Finally, this isn't confined to the established radio stations. In. 1990
after I had listened to a. pirate radio station in South London for about
half an hour, there was an audible phone call in. the background, followed
by. total silence for a few moments, then shrieks of laughter. "So what are
we supposed to say now? Deadly torture? He's going to talk to. us now, isn't
he?", which meant that they could hear what I. would say in my room.

5298

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M,I-5,Persecuti on , c ost of t he opera tion
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/33319cf91656c21a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 1:46 am
From: mifvem@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-= MI5:. cost of the operation -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Here's what a couple of other people on Usenet. (uk.misc) had to say
regarding the cost of running. such an operation...

PO: >Have some sense, grow up and smell reality. What you are. talking about
PO: >would take loads of planning, tens of thousands of pounds and. lots of
PO: >people involved in the planning, execution and maintenance of it.. You
PO: >must have a. very high opinion of yourself to think you are worth it.

PM: >But why?. And why you? Do you realize how much it would cost to keep
PM: >one person under. continuous surveillance for five years? Think about
PM: >all the man/hours. Say. they _just_ allocated a two man team and a
PM: >supervisor. OK., Supervisor's salary, say,. #30,000 a year. Two men,
PM:. >#20,000 a year each. But they'd need to work in shifts -- so it would
PM: >be six men at #20,000 (which with on-costs would. work out at more like
PM:. >#30,000 to the employer.)
PM:. >
PM: >So, we're talking #30,000 x 6. #180,000. plus say, #40,000 for. the
PM: >supervisor. #220,000. Then you've got the hardware involved. And.
PM: >any transcription. that needs doing. You don't think the 'Big Boss'
PM: >would listen to hours and hours of. tapes, do you.
PM:. >
PM: >So,. all in all, you couldn't actually do the job for much less than
PM: >a quarter. million a year. Over five years. What are you doing that makes
PM:. >it worth the while of the state to spend over one and a quarter million
PM:. >on you?

Those are pretty much. the sort of calculations that went through my head
once. I stopped to consider what it must be costing them to run this
operation. The partial answer is, there have been periods when. the
intensity. has been greater, and times when little has happened. In fact,
for much of 1993 and the first half of. 1994, very little happened. Although
I. don't think that was for reasons of money - if they can tap into the
taxpayer they're not going. to be short of resources, are they?

The more complete. answer is in the enormity of what they're doing. Relative
to the cost to. British pride of seeing their country humiliated for the
persecution of their own citizens, isn't is worth the cost. of four or five
people to try to bring things to a close in the. manner they would wish? To
the government a. million or two is quite honestly nothing - if they can
convince themselves of the. necessity of what they're doing, resources will
not. be the limiting factor.

7728

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I,5`Persec ution . how an d wh y did it star t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e8415a756bd50264?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:16 am
From: iveif@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did it start?. -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone must have. been there at
the outset to give it. a firm push and set the "animals" after me. It looks
as if I was set up in June 1990, and the timing. indicates someone from
university. was responsible.

>One thing which has been missing from this discussion is this. simple
>prognosis:. that maybe he is right and that, despite his admitted
>mental condition, there really. is a campaign against him organised by
>now-influential. ex-students of his university.

In May or June 1990,. Alan Freeman on Radio 1 read out a letter from someone
who had known. me for a few years, who wrote of the one who "wore out his
welcome with random precision" (from the Pink Floyd song). Freeman went. on
to. say to the writer "that's a hell of a letter you wrote there". The
indication is strongly that people I had parted from soon. before nursed a
grudge against me. and were trying to cause trouble for me.

The suggestion is that Freeman might have shown. the letter to other people,
and things could have snowballed from there. Right from. the start the real
source (security services presumed) didn't announce. themselves as the
origin, but let. the "talkers", the radio DJs, believe that they were the
originators. Think about it; if you announce, "we're MI5 and we have. a
campaign against this bloke" then people might not. go along with it; but if
you say, "everyone else is getting at this bloke because. he 'deserves' it"
then people will join. in with fewer qualms.

>Why would. "they" wish to assassinate your character?

It's the classic case of hitting a cripple to. prove you're stronger. Why
would the security services expend hundreds of thousands. of pounds and more
than six. years of manpower to try to kill a British citizen? Because they
are motivated by. people who knew me at university and feel personal
animosity; because they knew. me to be emotionally weak, and it is in the
nature of bullies to prey on those known. to be weak; and because they can
rely on the complicity of the establishment, which the. security services
manipulate and derive funding from. This is England's biggest. humiliation
today, and the British security. services are intent on preventing their
humiliation becoming reality by continuing their. campaign of attempted
murder to suppress. the truth from becoming public.

10158

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Debit card article in Reader's Digest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:34 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏

imascot wrote:
> =?UTF-8?B?U01TIOaWr+iSguaWh+KAoiDlpI8=?=
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:476beee3$0$84174
> $742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:
>
>> email.is.ignored@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of the discussion in this thread is about debit vs. credit
>>> cards, but the real discussion should be about credit-enabled debit
>>> cards. Your financial risk from a credit-enabled debit card is so
>>> much greater than a normal ATM card. So if debit cards are the right
>>> choice for you, by all means continue using them, just contact your
>>> bank and get a debit card which *always* requires PIN entry.
>> That really is the key point. Readers Digest should have distinguished
>> between a PIN based ATM card, and debit card that can be used like a
>> credit card with only a signature (or no signature in many cases). You
>> want to avoid the latter at all costs, but the pin-based ATM card is
>> pretty safe.
>
> Banks have done a great job of not mentioning the existence of plain vanilla
> PIN-based ATM cards, to the extent that many people, probably including the
> RD author, do not even know that they are an option (USENET readers
> excepted, of course).

I was watching Suze Ormann last night, and she was really reaming a
caller for using a debit card rather than a credit card. His initial
concern was what not using a credit card would do to his FICO score,
which she pointed out was a very real problem, but then she went on to
explain some of the other disadvantages of debit cards versus credit
cards. At least the caller understood what she was talking about and
said that he would stop using debit cards, except at gas stations that
didn't accept credit cards.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I'5`Persecu tion . how and w hy did it start?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c5c8ea7969e4f33e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:45 am
From: imvmiv@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= how and why did. it start? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The harassment didn't start by itself, so someone. must have been there at
the outset to give it a firm push and. set the "animals" after me. It looks
as if I was set up. in June 1990, and the timing indicates someone from
university. was responsible.

>One thing which has been missing from this. discussion is this simple
>prognosis: that maybe he is. right and that, despite his admitted
>mental condition,. there really is a campaign against him organised by
>now-influential ex-students of. his university.

In May or June 1990, Alan Freeman on Radio. 1 read out a letter from someone
who had known me for. a few years, who wrote of the one who "wore out his
welcome with random. precision" (from the Pink Floyd song). Freeman went on
to say to the writer "that's a hell of a letter you wrote. there". The
indication is strongly that. people I had parted from soon before nursed a
grudge against me and were trying to cause trouble. for me.

The suggestion is that Freeman might have shown the letter. to other people,
and things could have snowballed from there. Right from the start. the real
source (security services presumed) didn't announce themselves as. the
origin, but let the "talkers", the radio DJs, believe. that they were the
originators. Think. about it; if you announce, "we're MI5 and we have a
campaign against this bloke" then people might. not go along with it; but if
you say, "everyone else is getting at this. bloke because he 'deserves' it"
then people will join in with. fewer qualms.

>Why would "they". wish to assassinate your character?

It's the classic case of hitting a. cripple to prove you're stronger. Why
would the security services expend. hundreds of thousands of pounds and more
than. six years of manpower to try to kill a British citizen? Because they
are motivated. by people who knew me at university and feel personal
animosity; because they knew me to be emotionally weak, and. it is in the
nature of bullies to prey on those known to be weak; and. because they can
rely on the complicity of the establishment,. which the security services
manipulate. and derive funding from. This is England's biggest humiliation
today, and the British security services are intent on. preventing their
humiliation becoming reality by continuing their campaign of. attempted
murder to. suppress the truth from becoming public.

438

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 2:52 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏

The Real Bev wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> In general you want to avoid all the prepaid services sold at places
>> like Wal-Mart. In particular, TracFone, Net10, Boost, Virgin, AT&T and
>> Verizon InPulse should be avoided.
>>
>> Go to "http://www.prepaiduswireless.com/".
>>
>> There are basically three choices for very low cost and very low use.
>> T-Mobile, which will cost you $100 the first year, but only $10 in
>> subsequent years.
>
> Perhaps a bit less. Last year Target had a sale on T-Mobile stuff --
> for something like $90 you got a $100 top-up card, a free no-frills
> phone and a $10 card. I have until March for them to have another sale,
> but one of the survey groups pays me off in Target cards so the next
> year will be free.

Yeah, I've seen those Target deals. Unfortunately T-Mobile doesn't work
well in California, though it's very slowly improving.

Refills are a bit cheaper at
"http://www.callingmart.com/products/wireless/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=35"
as well.

> The supercheap dialarounds for LD landline service seem to have
> evaporated. Either "billing fees" or exhorbitant per-call charges on
> top of the reasonable per-minute charges seem to be the order of the day.

I don't find it any more difficult to dial the OneSuite or TalkLoop
access number than dialing 1010xxx, and it's 2-2.5¢/minute. However you
have to add $10 every six months.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:17 am
From: clams_casino

The Real Bev wrote:

> FreebiesPl.us wrote:
>
>> Free Werner ToolLasso with Beltclip
>> http://www.freebies...
>
>
> Now I see what others are complaining about. You click on this
> asshole's link and you get half a dozen (maybe more) new tabs/windows
> popping up offering crap. Bastard ought to be shot.
>

Which is exactly why abuse@abuse.earthlink.net wants to hear every time
that abusive spammer posts their spam.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I 5-Persecution ` who kno ws abou t i t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/081be960df643dca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 3:43 am
From: eiefem@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= who. knows about it? =-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Many people know, both in the. establishment and media, and among the
general public. Despite an absence. of its target from the UK for more than
two years, the echoes of paranoia can still be heard loud and clear. from
across the water. When it started in 1990, the only people who knew. were
those in BBC television who were spying on my home,. and a few radio
broadcasters. There were. a few cases of public harassment, but very little
compared to the situation that developed a couple of. years later.

The list today includes BBC TV. staff (newsreaders such as Martyn Lewis,
Michael Buerk, Nicholas. Witchell), people from radio stations such as
Chris Tarrant. of Capital and Radio 1 DJs, people in the print media, but
also many people in the general public. All united. in a conspiracy which
breaks the laws which the UK does have regarding harassment,. and all
completely uncaring for any semblance of. decency or elementary respect
for individual. rights.

The. British police (obviously) do know the nature of the harassment and in
all probability the identity of those behind. it. Some time ago I made a
complaint to my. local police station in London, without positive result.
The UK police are failing in their duty. to see the law enforced in not
checking. the abuse.

2868

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M`I'5`Per secution . Berna rd Levin expr esses hi s views
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0a69744a44abb11?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 4:14 am
From: emfvefvif@gmail.com

The article of. which part is reproduced below was penned by Bernard Levin
for the Features section of the. Times on 21 September 1991. To my mind, it
described the situation at the time and in particular. a recent meeting with
a friend, during which I for the first time admitted to someone. other than
my GP that I had been subjected to a. conspiracy of harassment over the
previous year and a. half.

>There. is a madman running loose about London, called David Campbell; I have
>no reason. to believe that he is violent, but he should certainly be
>approached with caution.. You may know him by the curious glitter in his
>eyes. and a persistent trembling of his hands; if that does not suffice, you
>will find him attempting to thrust no fewer than. 48 books into your arms,
>all hardbacks,. with a promise that, if you should return to the same
>meeting-place next year, he will heave another 80 at. you.
>
>If, by now, the police have arrived and are keeping. a close watch on him,
>you may feel sufficiently emboldened to examine the books. The. jackets are
>a model of uncluttered typography,. elegantly and simply laid out; there is
>an unobtrusive colophon of a rising sun, probably. not picked at random.
>Gaining confidence - the lunatic is smiling by. now, and the policemen, who
>know about such. things, have significantly removed their helmets - you
>could do worse than take the jacket off the first. book in the pile. The
>only word possible to describe the binding is sumptuous; real cloth. in a
>glorious shade of dark green, with the title. and author in black and gold
>on. the spine.
>
>Look at it more closely; your eyes do not deceive you. - it truly does have
>real top-bands and tail-bands, in yellow, and, for good measure,. a silk
>marker ribbon in a lighter. green. The paper is cream-wove and acid-free,
>and the book is sewn,. not glued.
>
>Throughout the encounter, I should have mentioned, our loony has. been
>chattering away, although what he is trying to say is almost. impossible to
>understand; after a time, however, he becomes sufficiently. coherent to make
>clear that he is trying to sell the books to you. Well, now,. such quality
>in bookmaking today can only be for collectors' limited. editions at a
>fearsome. price - #30, #40, #50?
>
>No, no, he says, the glitter more. powerful than ever and the trembling of
>his hands rapidly spreading throughout his entire body; no,. no - the books
>are priced variously at #7, #8 or #9, with the. top price #12.
>
>At this, the policemen understandably put their helmets back on;. one of
>them draws his truncheon and the. other can be heard summoning
>reinforcements. on his walkie-talkie. The madman bursts into tears, and
>swears it. is all true.
>
>And. it is.
>
>David Campbell. has acquired the entire rights to the whole of the
>Everyman's Library, which died a lingering and. shameful death a decade or
>so ago,. and he proposes to start it all over again - 48 volumes this
>September and 80 more next year, in. editions I have described, at the
>prices specified. He. proposes to launch his amazing venture simultaneously
>in Britain and the United States, with the massive firepower of. Random
>Century at his back in this. country, and the dashing cavalry of Knopf
>across the water, and no one who loves literature and courage. will forbear
>to. cheer.

At the time this article was written I had believed for some. time that
columnists in the. Times and other journalists had been making references to
my situation. Nothing unusual about this you may think, plenty of. people
have the same sort of ideas and obviously. the papers aren't writing about
them, so why should my beliefs not be as false as those. of others?

What makes this article so extraordinary. is that three or four days
immediately preceding its. publication, I had a meeting with a friend,
during the course of which we discussed the media. persecution, and in
particular that by Times. columnists. It seemed to me, reading the article
by Levin in Saturday's paper, that he was describing in. some detail his
"artist's impression" of that meeting. Most telling are the. final
sentences, when he writes, "The madman bursts into. tears, and swears it is
all true. And it is." Although I did. not "burst into tears" (he seems to be
using a bit of poetic licence. and exaggerating) I did try hard to convince
my friend that it was all true;. and I am able to concur with Mr Levin,
because, of course, it. is.

At the beginning of the piece Levin reveals a fear of. being attacked by the
"irrational" subject. of his story, saying "I have no reason to believe that
he. is violent, but he should certainly be approached with caution". This
goes back to the xenophobic propaganda of "defence". against a "threat"
which was seen at the very beginning of. the harassment. The impression of a
"madman running loose" who needs to be controlled. through an agency which
assigns to itself the mantle of the "police". is also one which had been
expressed. elsewhere.

In the final paragraph of this extract, his. reference to Everyman's Library
as having "died a. lingering and shameful death a decade or so ago" shows
clearly what sort of conclusion they wish. to their campaign. They want a
permanent solution, and as they are. prevented from achieving that solution
directly, they waste significant resources on methods. which have been
repeatedly shown to be ineffective for. such a purpose.

5298

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M'I`5 Per secution Berna rd Levin expre sses h is views
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cea2522644d24f9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 4:58 am
From: fmemvemf@gmail.com

The article. of which part is reproduced below was penned by Bernard Levin
for. the Features section of the Times on 21 September 1991. To my mind, it
described the situation at the time and in particular a recent meeting. with
a friend, during which. I for the first time admitted to someone other than
my GP that. I had been subjected to a conspiracy of harassment over the
previous year and. a half.

>There is a madman running loose about London,. called David Campbell; I have
>no reason to believe that he is violent, but. he should certainly be
>approached with caution. You may know him by the curious. glitter in his
>eyes and. a persistent trembling of his hands; if that does not suffice, you
>will find him. attempting to thrust no fewer than 48 books into your arms,
>all hardbacks, with a promise that, if you should. return to the same
>meeting-place next year, he will heave. another 80 at you.
>
>If, by now, the police have arrived. and are keeping a close watch on him,
>you may feel sufficiently. emboldened to examine the books. The jackets are
>a model. of uncluttered typography, elegantly and simply laid out; there is
>an unobtrusive colophon of a rising sun, probably not. picked at random.
>Gaining confidence -. the lunatic is smiling by now, and the policemen, who
>know about such things,. have significantly removed their helmets - you
>could do worse than take the jacket off the first book. in the pile. The
>only word. possible to describe the binding is sumptuous; real cloth in a
>glorious shade of dark green, with the title. and author in black and gold
>on the. spine.
>
>Look at it more closely;. your eyes do not deceive you - it truly does have
>real top-bands and tail-bands, in. yellow, and, for good measure, a silk
>marker ribbon in a lighter green. The paper is cream-wove. and acid-free,
>and the book is. sewn, not glued.
>
>Throughout the encounter, I should. have mentioned, our loony has been
>chattering away, although what he is. trying to say is almost impossible to
>understand; after a time, however,. he becomes sufficiently coherent to make
>clear that. he is trying to sell the books to you. Well, now, such quality
>in bookmaking today can only be for collectors' limited editions at. a
>fearsome price - #30, #40,. #50?
>
>No, no, he says, the glitter. more powerful than ever and the trembling of
>his hands rapidly spreading throughout his entire body; no, no - the. books
>are priced variously at #7,. #8 or #9, with the top price #12.
>
>At. this, the policemen understandably put their helmets back on; one of
>them draws his truncheon and. the other can be heard summoning
>reinforcements on his walkie-talkie. The. madman bursts into tears, and
>swears. it is all true.
>
>And it. is.
>
>David Campbell. has acquired the entire rights to the whole of the
>Everyman's Library, which. died a lingering and shameful death a decade or
>so ago, and he proposes to start it all. over again - 48 volumes this
>September and 80 more next year, in editions I have. described, at the
>prices specified. He. proposes to launch his amazing venture simultaneously
>in Britain and the United States, with. the massive firepower of Random
>Century at his back in. this country, and the dashing cavalry of Knopf
>across the water, and no one. who loves literature and courage will forbear
>to. cheer.

At the time this article was written I had believed for some time. that
columnists in the Times and other journalists had been making. references to
my situation. Nothing unusual about this you may think, plenty. of people
have the same sort of ideas and. obviously the papers aren't writing about
them, so why should my beliefs not be. as false as those of others?

What. makes this article so extraordinary is that three or four days
immediately preceding its publication, I had a meeting with a. friend,
during the course. of which we discussed the media persecution, and in
particular that by Times columnists.. It seemed to me, reading the article
by Levin in Saturday's paper, that he was describing. in some detail his
"artist's impression" of that meeting. Most telling. are the final
sentences, when he writes, "The madman bursts. into tears, and swears it is
all true. And it is." Although I did not "burst into tears" (he seems. to be
using a bit of poetic licence. and exaggerating) I did try hard to convince
my friend that it was all true; and I. am able to concur with Mr Levin,
because, of course,. it is.

At the beginning of the piece Levin reveals a fear of being. attacked by the
"irrational". subject of his story, saying "I have no reason to believe that
he is violent, but he should certainly be approached. with caution". This
goes back to the xenophobic. propaganda of "defence" against a "threat"
which was seen at the very beginning of the harassment. The impression of. a
"madman running loose" who needs. to be controlled through an agency which
assigns to itself the mantle of. the "police" is also one which had been
expressed. elsewhere.

In the final paragraph of this. extract, his reference to Everyman's Library
as having "died a lingering and shameful. death a decade or so ago" shows
clearly what sort of conclusion they wish to their campaign.. They want a
permanent solution, and as they are prevented from achieving. that solution
directly, they waste significant resources on methods which. have been
repeatedly. shown to be ineffective for such a purpose.

438

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M I-5,Persecuti on why won' t the Brit ish p olice do t heir job an d
pu t a st op to it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6187c0af41ad9157?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:32 am
From: fvmfivefv@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= why won't the British police do their job and put a. stop to it? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The British police obviously do know what. is taking place. Besides my
interpretations. of what individual officers have said which forces that
conclusion, it would be inconceivable for them. to be unaware of something
on this. scale.

If they know, then they will know. that the abusers have broken laws in the
UK and abroad. Recently. the UK introduced laws against electronic spying
which. carry a penalty of several years jail if caught. If the police know
illegal harassment is taking place, and do nothing. about it, then they are
failing in. their responsibilities.

Last Easter (1995) I. went into the local police station in London and spoke
to an officer about the. harassment against me. But I couldn't provide
tangible evidence; what people said, in many cases years ago,. is beyond
proof, and without something to support my statements. I cannot expect a
police officer to take. the complaint seriously.

The current situation with regard to the police is not one. which allows a
breakthrough in dealing with the problem. On the. one hand, most individual
officers. at a local police station may not know about the ongoing assaults,
so a. complaint at that level will not yield results. Yet the police as an
organisation do know of the harassment, and. they must be aware that a
complaint has been made at a police station. So it is clearly their duty. to
take. preventative action against the continuing molestation, but because
the criminals are operating on behalf of a state agency,. the police are not
carrying out. their duty.

2868

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M,I-5 Persecuti on , why won' t th e Br itish p olice do the ir jo b a
nd p ut a st op to i t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/496988b073b1c0ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:43 am
From: fmfmi@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=. why won't the British police do their job and put a stop to it? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The British police obviously do know what is taking place. Besides. my
interpretations of what individual officers. have said which forces that
conclusion, it would be inconceivable for them. to be unaware of something
on this. scale.

If they know, then they will know that the. abusers have broken laws in the
UK and. abroad. Recently the UK introduced laws against electronic spying
which carry. a penalty of several years jail if caught. If the police know
illegal harassment is taking. place, and do nothing about it, then they are
failing in. their responsibilities.

Last Easter (1995) I. went into the local police station in London and spoke
to an officer about the harassment against me. But. I couldn't provide
tangible evidence; what. people said, in many cases years ago, is beyond
proof, and. without something to support my statements I cannot expect a
police officer to take. the complaint seriously.

The current situation with regard to the police is not. one which allows a
breakthrough in dealing with the problem. On the one hand,. most individual
officers at a local police. station may not know about the ongoing assaults,
so a complaint at that level will not yield results. Yet the. police as an
organisation do know of the harassment, and they must be aware. that a
complaint has been made at a. police station. So it is clearly their duty to
take preventative action against the. continuing molestation, but because
the criminals are operating on behalf of a. state agency, the police are not
carrying. out their duty.

438

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Memory Foam Mattresses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e255a64d691bc4fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:53 am
From: "Tockk"

"P T" <Petepenguin@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11506-477832DB-1742@storefull-3134.bay.webtv.net...
> About ten years ago I bought a foam mattress at a local furniture store.
> There were several firmness grades available, it was not some cheap
> thing, and I've been fairly satisfied with it.
>
> How is "MEMORY" foam different?

I used to know, but I forgot.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:03 am
From: "Tockk"

Memory foam is graded in pounds (of weight) per cubic foot. When you lay
down on it, it conforms more closely to your curves than will regular foam.
It will have a sort of feeling like sleeping in mud; you'll be much less apt
to toss and turn in bed. The densest stuff will be more durable, will
weigh more, will be squishyer, and will consequently cost more.

The best internet price I've seen is from some foam mattress company in
California -- San Francisco, I think. (www.foamorder.com) Last time I
looked they had regular and memory foam. The thing to do is to get 4" of
firm regular foam, and then put 4" of memory foam on top of it. Gives ya
the best of both worlds. I did that, and the memory foam lasted 6 years,
but the regular foam showed no evidence of wear.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 0 Balance Transfer Credit Cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a38580811f5d0696?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 5:59 am
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TOPIC: M-I,5`Persecut ion - w hy w on't th e B ritish po lice do thei r job a
nd put a sto p to i t?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a6eea5b71da9945?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:10 am
From: efmfifmef@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= why. won't the British police do their job and put a stop to it? -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The British police obviously do know. what is taking place. Besides my
interpretations of what individual officers have said. which forces that
conclusion, it would be inconceivable for them to be unaware. of something
on. this scale.

If they know, then. they will know that the abusers have broken laws in the
UK. and abroad. Recently the UK introduced laws against electronic spying
which carry a penalty of. several years jail if caught. If the police know
illegal harassment is taking place,. and do nothing about it, then they are
failing. in their responsibilities.

Last Easter (1995) I went into the local police station. in London and spoke
to an officer about the harassment against me. But I couldn't. provide
tangible evidence; what people said, in many cases. years ago, is beyond
proof, and without something to support my statements I cannot expect. a
police officer to. take the complaint seriously.

The current situation with. regard to the police is not one which allows a
breakthrough in dealing with the problem. On the one hand, most. individual
officers at a local police station. may not know about the ongoing assaults,
so a complaint at that level will. not yield results. Yet the police as an
organisation do know of. the harassment, and they must be aware that a
complaint has been made at a police station. So it is. clearly their duty to
take preventative. action against the continuing molestation, but because
the criminals are operating on behalf of a state agency,. the police are not
carrying out. their duty.

438

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TOPIC: M-I,5`P ersecution ` abus e in set -up situat ions an d in publ ic
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/48f317ecd9274663?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:38 am
From: vefivmfe@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= abuse in set-up situations. and in public -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Strangers in the street have recognized. me on sight many times, and shown
awareness of the current thread of abuse. To give you. one example, in 1992
I was seriously ill, and a manager at work somewhat humorously said. that
"it. wasn't fair" that people were bullying me. A few days later, I attended
for. the first time a clinic in London as an outpatient, and on my way out
was accosted by someone who. asked if "they had paid my fare", with emphasis
on the word "fare". He repeated the word several times in this. different
context; that they should have paid my "fare", each time. emphasizing the
word.

For two and a half years from the time their. harassment started until
November 1992 I refused to see a. psychiatrist, because I reasoned that I
was not ill of my own action or fault, but through the stress caused. by
harassment, and that a lessening of the illness would. have to be consequent
to a removal of its immediate. cause, in other words a cessation of
harassment. I also reasoned that since. they were taunting me with jokes
about mental illness, if I were to seek treatment then the abusers. would
think that they had "won". and been proved "right". Remember, the constant
theme of any persecution. is, "we must destroy you because you're X",
whether X is a racial or other attribute. In. this case the X was "we
persecute you because you have brain disease". The similarity of this. logic
to. Nazi attitudes to the mentally ill is striking.

The same manager who'd said "it wasn't fair". asked me in winter 1992 why I
didn't seek help. from a psychiatrist; was it, he asked, because "they would
think they had won" if I sought treatment?. That was something I'd never
said at work... again, taken separately it proves. nothing, but many such
things over a period of months proves conclusively that. people in the
company knew what was going on, and in quite a lot. of detail.

Usually harassment in public lacks the level of finesse. of "paying your
fare".. Most people's imagination does not go beyond moronic parroting of
the current term of denigration. That. is not surprising given the average
level of the abusers; if they do not have the intelligence. to distinguish
wrong from right then neither will they have. the capacity for anything
other than mindless repetition of a monosyllabic. term calculated to fit
into their. minds.

The first incidents of verbal assault in public were. in again in the summer
of 1990, although they increased in frequency and venom with time. In. July
1990 the first public incident. occurred on a tube train on the Northern
line. Two men and their girlfriends. recognised me; the women sprang to my
defence,. saying "He looks perfectly normal, he doesn't look ill". Their
boyfriends of course knew better, and followed the. party line; one of them
made reference to an "operation", apparently. to work at the tube station
but implicitly to a. visit that I had made to hospital a couple of weeks
previously.

In August 1990 going home from college, soon after getting. on a tube train
at Gloucester Road I was followed by a group of four youths,. who started a
chant of abuse. That they were targeting me was. confirmed by other people
in the carriage, one of whom asked the other "who are they going. on at, is
it the bloke who just got on?" to which the second replied "yes,. I think
so". I was tempted. to reply, but as in every other instance the abusers are
enabled in their cowardice by physically outnumbering the. abused; any
confrontation would result in. my being beaten up, followed by a complaint
to the police that "he attacked us", and of course he's ill, so. he must
have been imagining that we were getting. at him. Shitty, aren't they?

But. the shittiness of the four youths on the tube train is as nothing
compared to. the episode on the National Express coach to Dover in the
summer of 1992. While going on holiday to. the Continent I was verbally set
upon by a couple travelling sitting a few rows behind. The. boy did the
talking, his. female companion contributing only a continuous empty giggling
noise. He spoke loudly to ensure other people on the. coach heard, always
about "they" and "this bloke" but never. naming either the abusers or the
person he was talking about. He said "they" had "found somebody from. his
school, and he was always really stressed at school".. They must have dug
deep to find enemies there;. perhaps someone who dropped out of school,
someone who didn't do too well later, who was jealous and keen to. get their
own back? The boy also. said "he was in a bed and breakfast for only one
night and they got him". By a not unexpected coincidence I had been. in a
B&B in. Oxford a week previously, which had been booked from work; other
things lead me to the conclusion that the company's offices were. bugged for
most of the 2. 1/2 years that I was there, so "they" would have known a room
in the B&B had been booked. (But I'll bet "they". didn't tell the company's
managers their offices were. bugged, did they?).

After a few minutes of this I went back. to where they were sitting and
asked where they were travelling. The boy named a village in France,. and
the. girl's giggling suddenly ceased; presumably it permeated to her brain
cell what the purpose of the. boy's abuse was.

This and other set-up situations are obviously calculated to. provoke a
direct confrontation. which would bring in the police, with the abusers
claiming that they. were the ones attacked. Again in 1992, outside the
house where I was living in Oxford I was physically attacked. by someone -
not punched, just grabbed by the coat, with some verbals thrown in. for good
measure. That was something the people at work shouldn't have. known
about... but soon after a couple of. people were talking right in front of
me about, "I heard he was attacked". The UK police. have a responsibility
for preventing assault occurring, but they do not seem to take. any interest
in meeting. that responsibility. I suppose their attitude is that harassment
does not come within their remit unless it. involves physical assault, and
they will only become involved once that happens. That is. of course quite
the wrong attitude. for them to take, but as I now understand, the police
investigate only the crime. they wish to investigate; if they do not take
your. complaints seriously then there is nothing you can do to make them
take. action.

2868

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TOPIC: 2 Free Digital TV Converter Box Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6d1e7335ddcdaeb7?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:54 am
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1235753ff20897e2?hl=en
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TOPIC: Free Insulated Can or Bottle Holder
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a7224ef90ea5dfb8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 6:57 am
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 7:10 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: M,I.5 Pers ecution p urpose in publici zing it; ce nsorship in u k.*
news groups
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ded54b69af072fd?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 1 2008 7:11 am
From: mvmeimfm@gmail.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-= purpose in publicizing. it; censorship in uk.* newsgroups -=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The postings to uk.misc newsgroup generated. a very defensive reaction from
Usenet. readers in the UK. So much so, that they tried strenuously to
suppress what. was being said, both by breaking the rules of netiquette in
their responses on the forum, and directly by action to revoke. the account
from which the postings were. issued.

Yet the postings. were within the normal boundaries of behaviour for
uk.misc, and other less partisan spectators did not. see justice in the
censorship which was. effected, as the following excerpt shows;

:Karen Lofstrom. (lofstrom@lava.net) wrote
:>It does seem that the. frequency and the size of his posts are
:>approaching net abuse. . However, IMHO, they aren't quite there yet. If
:>his postmaster were to act in this instance,. it would raise troubling
:>censorship. issues.

The inescapable conclusion of the censorship effected on. the uk.*
newsgroups is that the British are. intent on their wrongdoing remaining
concealed, and therefore seek to. subvert and suppress freedom of speech,
not only in their. own country where the media shows xenophobic bias and
bile against all perceived. enemies within and without, but also in other
countries which have. their own statutes to guarantee the basic human right
of. free speech.

It is absolutely necessary. to bring their hate campaign out into the open
where it can. be placed under scrutiny and the harassers seen for what they
are. That is. the only way of making it impossible for the security services
to carry it out. There is a wider dimension, though.. Xenophobia as
demonstrated by British people and institutions over the last few. years
belongs to the. same stable as racial hatred. In one case, two youths on a
Tube train made that racism explicit by referring to their. victim as a
"soft toy, not. up to British Standards". Doubtless others victimize partly
on the basis of. race (isn't it odd that they chose to torment someone who
is not ethnically English?) while expressing their abuse in. terms of
another genetic attribute, namely mental. illness. All xenophobia on a
genetic basis is wrong, but while racial insults. are illegal, abusing the
mentally ill is neither. against the law nor subject to similar condemnation
when it. is exposed.

5298

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