Frugal Living: Jun 3, 2010

Thursday, June 3, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Western women are so repressed because they are insecure
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/221235c3afb6b6c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:21 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 2, 10:54 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In <d2f783c6-a19d-4187-a580-4df6357af...@q33g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >These are the causes and consequences of obesity in America...
>
> >Results: The direct costs of lack of physical activity, defined
> >conservatively as absence of leisure-time physical activity, are
> >approximately 24 billion dollars or 2.4% of the U.S. health care
> >expenditures. Direct costs for obesity defined as body mass index
> >greater than 30, in 1995 dollars, total 70 billion dollars. These
> >costs are independent of those resulting from lack of activity.
>
> >Conclusion: Overall, the direct costs of inactivity and obesity
> >account for some 9.4% of the national health care expenditures in the
> >United States. Inactivity, with its wide range of health consequences,
> >represents a major avoidable contribution to the costs of illness in
> >the United States and other countries with modern lifestyles that have
> >replaced physical labor with sedentary occupations and motorized
> >transportation.
>
> >http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/1999/11001/Economic_costs_...
>
> >IS THE FAT SHEEP A HAPPY SHEEP?
>
> >But if you look on the bright side of it, the Medical Industry reaps
> >the benefits. ;)
>
> In addition, many Americans have overweightness short of "obesity" but
> bad enough to be an *outright diagnosable bad thing*.
>
> Furthermore, there is the matter of sedentary lifestyle. Plenty of my
> fellow Americans like to think that they can diet their way to
> healthfulness while being sedentary, especially as espoused by "low carb".
> I see higher success rate from being physically active. My best friend
> other than my boyfriend is known to have above-USA-average percentage of
> dietary calorie intake being in form of carbs, and is a lean 130 pounder
> whose height is 5-foot-7-inches. His blood analysis is high-to-new-record
> expectable from his cardiologist after making dietary changes (away from
> fatty stuff, meats and cheese and oil-rich salad dressings) and to spend
> on daily average maybe 1.5 hours of "walking his ass off". That includes
> blood concentration of triglycerides!
> That friend of mine did this to successfully minimise repeating a heart
> attack that he survived so far, already 2-plus years and 25-30 pounds of
> body fat poundage [as in burned off in recent years as opposed to gained]
> after the heart attack that he is surviving so far.
> --
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

I always mention this word and my girlfriend was reading me some diet
that mentions it by name: WE WERE 'HUNTER-GATHERERS,' and all of a
sudden became couch potatoes.

But nobody really minds that we get diseases because we got the
Medical Industry to take care of us. :(

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 8:30 am
From: Paul O

Don Klipstein wrote, On 6/2/2010 10:27 PM:
> In<86e2ac01-ce28-40af-aeae-52242f4d1602@q13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
> TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
>> On Jun 1, 8:43 pm, xeno<69black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2:21 pm, TibetanMonkey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> They push the cyclists to the sidewalks
>>>>
>>> Yah, but some cyclists terrorize peds. Or they don't give a fuck.
>>>
>> I know. And many of them don't give a shit about the revolution
>> either, which is the only hope.
>>
>> I say, "ISSUE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS ON SIDEWALK." They do it here but
>> only in the area where the beautiful people live.
>>
> What's so bad about issuing tickets to cagers that violate the law in
> ways of pushing cyclists onto sidewalks?
>
> (For that matter, also issuing tickets to cyclists as well as all
> other vehicle drivers who fail to yield to pedestrians where the the
> law says pedestrians rule over vehicles?)
>
> (I hope enough said by me... If there is debate that I have to get
> back into, I disclaim responsibility to get back in quicker than a day or
> 2 or 3...)
>
>
Dude -
You're engaged in a debate with a troll who calls himself TibetanMonkey
and ComandanteBanana. Take your time getting back to this thread. I can
assure you that the monkey will still be here posting illogical
statements and spewing incendiary comments.

Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 8:42 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
Enterprises"

On Jun 3, 11:30 am, Paul O <first.d.l...@company.com> wrote:
> Don Klipstein wrote, On 6/2/2010 10:27 PM:
>
> > In<86e2ac01-ce28-40af-aeae-52242f4d1...@q13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
> > TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> >> On Jun 1, 8:43 pm, xeno<69black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Jun 1, 2:21 pm, TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> >>>> They push the cyclists to the sidewalks
>
> >>> Yah, but some cyclists terrorize peds. Or they don't give a fuck.
>
> >> I know. And many of them don't give a shit about the revolution
> >> either, which is the only hope.
>
> >> I say, "ISSUE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS ON SIDEWALK." They do it here but
> >> only in the area where the beautiful people live.
>
> > What's so bad about issuing tickets to cagers that violate the law in
> > ways of pushing cyclists onto sidewalks?
>
> > (For that matter, also issuing tickets to cyclists as well as all
> > other vehicle drivers who fail to yield to pedestrians where the the
> > law says pedestrians rule over vehicles?)
>
> > (I hope enough said by me... If there is debate that I have to get
> > back into, I disclaim responsibility to get back in quicker than a day or
> > 2 or 3...)
>
> Dude -
> You're engaged in a debate with a troll who calls himself TibetanMonkey
> and ComandanteBanana. Take your time getting back to this thread. I can
> assure you that the monkey will still be here posting illogical
> statements and spewing incendiary comments.

Just put away the flammable conditions in the jungle and the risk goes
away.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Discount Wholesale Crown Holder Jeans (http://www.cntrade09.com/
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b5829fa5da071a2b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 12:30 am
From: xiangmei chen

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Freezer question, your experience.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6c40f512af1456d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 4:10 am
From: spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)

In article <86oks8Fmq7U1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Doug Miller wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Doug Miller wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Fake ID wrote
>>>>>>>> Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote
>>>>>>>>> john hamilton wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the
>>>>>>>>>> air inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped the
>>>>>>>>>> theory is that it will not need defrosting as often as normal.
>
>>>>>>>>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>>>>>>>>> unopened milk cartons burst?
>
>>>>>>>> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?
>
>>>>>>> Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents freeze.
>
>>>>>> Wrong.
>
>>>>> Nope, I do it quite a bit with milk, basically when defrosting the fridge.
>
>>>> Fill a cardboard milk carton with water, freeze it, and see what happens.
>
>>> Like I said, I did that quite a bit when defrosting the fridge, not one ever
> burst.
>
>> You're a liar.
>
>Have you the remotest idea how pathetic you look in the eyes of someone who has
> done what they said ?
>
>Obviously not.

Obviously you haven't actually done it, or you would have seen the cartons
burst.
>
>> Either:
>> a) you never did it at all
>> b) you didn't actually *fill* the cartons
>> c) you're lying about them not bursting.
>
>d) you dont have a fucking clue and others have said the same as I have.

e) You're *still* lying.

<plonk>

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 6:02 am
From: Sqwertz

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:15:32 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote
>
>> How may times have we heard the comment "Found xyz in my chest
>> freezer. I think it's nnn years old.". And then possibly "is it still good?"
>
> You get the same thing with uprights too.

You can see what's in your upright a lot easier than you can see
what's in your chest freezer. Plus you can organize things so you
know where they are.

-sw

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 6:06 am
From: "h"

>
> You're right. If I ever buy a freezer (possibly around the time that it
> will no longer be needed because hell has frozen over) I'll get an
> upright. You can stack LOTS of crap on an upright...

I guess I need to get more crap. I have tons of wasted horizontal space and
nothing with which to fill it.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 6:26 am
From: The Natural Philosopher

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 17:20:17 +0100, john hamilton wrote:
>
>> We need to buy a freezer. The *chest* type is what we want with the lid on
>> the top.
>
> Why do people prefer chest freezers?

Because when you open them, the cold air stays in.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 6:42 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <86nu4nF4q7U1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>GregS wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> GregS wrote
>>>> Lou Decruss <LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote
>>>>> (Doug Miller) wrote
>>>>> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>> Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>
>>> summer and colder in winter.
>
>>>>>> Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>
>>>>> I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder
>>>>> why someone would insist on a chest freezer.
>
>>>> MORE efficient.
>
>>> Only trivially. The amount of air involved is trivial.
>
>> Nearly all the air drops out of an upright.
>
>Yes, but thats very little mass, even with an empty freezer.
>
>> The thing is, air has little mass. Its the foods mass which stores
>> the absence of heat. But, if you keep opening the door, it matters.
>
>Not really, because even with say 10 door openings, the mass of
>air thats lost is trivial compared with the mass of whats in the freezer.
>
>>>> All I know are not self defrosting,
>
>>> Plenty of upright freezers are too.
>
>>>> more efficiency,.
>
>>> Thats a myth.
>
>> Wrong.
>
>Nope.
>
>> The circulation fan is the main cause.
>
>There isnt necessarily any circulation fan at all. None
>of my upright freezers have any circulation fan at all.
>
>And even with a fan, that uses very little energy.
>
>> I know by use.
>
>You clearly dont.
>
>> The old refridgerators have less effect on partially closed containers.
>
>Thats just the circulation of the air effect.
>
>Plenty of upright freezers have no circulation fan, none of mine have one.
>
>> Its hard to seal a lot of them.
>
>Its completely trivial to seal them all.
>
>> I think it may have somthing to do with the ziploc bags
>> in my freezer expanding. They all fill up with air over time,
>
>Mine dont. I put the meat in the bags when the meat is wet
>and the meat sticks to the plastic and they dont expand.
>
>> and I keep letting the air out. IS THIS MAGIC ??
>
>Nope, just evidence that a ziplock isnt a perfect seal.
>
>There are alternatives to ziplock bags.
>
>> Most of what i say about the refridgerator/freezer subject is from direct
> experiance.
>
>But you dont understand the basics, or even that plenty of upright
>freezers have no fans or self defrost either. None of mine have either.
>
>>> Particularly if the freezer is in the kitchen and thats by
>>> far the most convenient place to have it, a vertical freezer
>>> is much more convenient to use and takes up less floor
>>> space and is well worth the trivially lower efficence that
>>> you get becaue the air falls out when you open the door.
>
>> The ideal system is a separate freezer and fridge in the kitchen,
>
>Yes, that is what I have, but separate doors isnt that much worse
>and has some advantages efficiency wise, two less external surfaces.
>
>> and also a walk in pantry.
>
>I prefer a different approach myself, one wall covered with shelves.
>
>Even very large pull out wheeled shelves a bit like books in a bookshelf has
> some advantages too.
>
>> One TV show, Chef at Home, has these features with an otherwise normal
> looking medium sized kitchen. Nice.
>
>I dont care what it looks like, what I care about is how well it works.
>
>> I wish. At least I have 2 microwaves and
>> two turbo ovens and a regular oven, there.
>
>Sounds like overkill.

Dry out and flavor, is my concern both refridgerator and freezer.
I have not run into any self defrosting unit without a fan.
We are talking about self defrosting.

greg

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 7:52 am
From: Ohioguy

I greatly prefer the convenience of an upright freezer - it just
seems easier to access everything inside. In fact, I'd hazard a guess
that since you don't have to take as much time to lift things out of the
freezer and out of the way to get things that are underneath, an upright
could very well actually save money.

This is especially true if you bother to put something like a dry
erase chalkboard on the front. When you stock it up with things, mark
them on the board. Then dry erase them when you get them out. It will
give you an instant, visual reference.

Want some frozen rhubarb, corn or steaks? Look on the front of the
freezer, and you'll instantly know whether it is even worth opening the
door or not.

*browsing* is what eats up the coal & increases your electricity bill.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 10:26 am
From: "John Weks"

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <86oks8Fmq7U1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Doug Miller wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Doug Miller wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Doug Miller wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Fake ID wrote
>>>>>>>>> Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> john hamilton wrote
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the
>>>>>>>>>>> air inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped
>>>>>>>>>>> the theory is that it will not need defrosting as often as
>>>>>>>>>>> normal.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>>>>>>>>>> unopened milk cartons burst?
>>
>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk
>>>>>>>>> froze?
>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents
>>>>>>>> freeze.
>>
>>>>>>> Wrong.
>>
>>>>>> Nope, I do it quite a bit with milk, basically when defrosting
>>>>>> the fridge.
>>
>>>>> Fill a cardboard milk carton with water, freeze it, and see what
>>>>> happens.
>>
>>>> Like I said, I did that quite a bit when defrosting the fridge,
>>>> not one ever
>> burst.
>>
>>> You're a liar.
>>
>> Have you the remotest idea how pathetic you look in the eyes of
>> someone who has done what they said ?
>>
>> Obviously not.
>
> Obviously you haven't actually done it, or you would have seen the
> cartons
> burst.
>>
>>> Either:
>>> a) you never did it at all
>>> b) you didn't actually *fill* the cartons
>>> c) you're lying about them not bursting.
>>
>> d) you dont have a fucking clue and others have said the same as I
>> have.
>
> e) You're *still* lying.

Have you the remotest idea how pathetic you look in the eyes of someone who has done what they said ?

Obviously not.

> <plonk>

Fat lot of good that will do you, you stupid plonker.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 10:37 am
From: "Rod Speed"

GregS wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> GregS wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> GregS wrote
>>>>> Lou Decruss <LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote
>>>>>> (Doug Miller) wrote
>>>>>> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>> Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in

>>>> summer and colder in winter.

>>>>>>> Surely you don't mean what you wrote.

>>>>>> I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder
>>>>>> why someone would insist on a chest freezer.

>>>>> MORE efficient.

>>>> Only trivially. The amount of air involved is trivial.

>>> Nearly all the air drops out of an upright.

>> Yes, but thats very little mass, even with an empty freezer.

>>> The thing is, air has little mass. Its the foods mass which stores
>>> the absence of heat. But, if you keep opening the door, it matters.

>> Not really, because even with say 10 door openings, the mass of
>> air thats lost is trivial compared with the mass of whats in the freezer.

>>>>> All I know are not self defrosting,

>>>> Plenty of upright freezers are too.

>>>>> more efficiency,.

>>>> Thats a myth.

>>> Wrong.

>> Nope.

>>> The circulation fan is the main cause.

>> There isnt necessarily any circulation fan at all. None
>> of my upright freezers have any circulation fan at all.

>> And even with a fan, that uses very little energy.

>>> I know by use.

>> You clearly dont.

>>> The old refridgerators have less effect on partially closed containers.

>> Thats just the circulation of the air effect.

>> Plenty of upright freezers have no circulation fan, none of mine have one.

>>> Its hard to seal a lot of them.

>> Its completely trivial to seal them all.

>>> I think it may have somthing to do with the ziploc bags
>>> in my freezer expanding. They all fill up with air over time,

>> Mine dont. I put the meat in the bags when the meat is wet
>> and the meat sticks to the plastic and they dont expand.

>>> and I keep letting the air out. IS THIS MAGIC ??

>> Nope, just evidence that a ziplock isnt a perfect seal.

>> There are alternatives to ziplock bags.

>>> Most of what i say about the refridgerator/freezer subject is from direct experiance.

>> But you dont understand the basics, or even that plenty of upright
>> freezers have no fans or self defrost either. None of mine have either.

>>>> Particularly if the freezer is in the kitchen and thats by
>>>> far the most convenient place to have it, a vertical freezer
>>>> is much more convenient to use and takes up less floor
>>>> space and is well worth the trivially lower efficence that
>>>> you get becaue the air falls out when you open the door.

>>> The ideal system is a separate freezer and fridge in the kitchen,

>> Yes, that is what I have, but separate doors isnt that much worse
>> and has some advantages efficiency wise, two less external surfaces.

>>> and also a walk in pantry.

>> I prefer a different approach myself, one wall covered with shelves.

>> Even very large pull out wheeled shelves a bit like books in a
>> bookshelf has some advantages too.

>>> One TV show, Chef at Home, has these features with an otherwise
>>> normal looking medium sized kitchen. Nice.

>> I dont care what it looks like, what I care about is how well it works.

>>> I wish. At least I have 2 microwaves and
>>> two turbo ovens and a regular oven, there.

>> Sounds like overkill.

> Dry out and flavor, is my concern both refridgerator and freezer.

Yes, but thats trivially fixable. Just put the meat in plastic bags when
still wet so the plastic sticks to the meat, you dont get freezer burn.

Get proper containers for the other stuff, I use glass jars that marmalade, relish etc comes in.

Get decent a frost free fridge so there never is any frost forming on the
food and there is no heating of the food when auto defrosting either.

> I have not run into any self defrosting unit without a fan.

I didnt say self defrosting without a fan. I JUST said no fan. There are plenty of those.

> We are talking about self defrosting.

Nope. There is also frost free.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 10:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Ohioguy wrote:

> I greatly prefer the convenience of an upright freezer - it just seems easier to access everything inside.

Yeah, me too.

> In fact, I'd hazard a guess that since you don't have to take as much time to lift things out of the freezer and out
> of the way to get things that are underneath, an upright could very well actually save money.

I doubt it. There is so much mass of frozen stuff in a
freezer that I doubt the effect of a bit longer with the lid
open in a chest freezer is even measurable efficiency wise.

> This is especially true if you bother to put something like a dry erase chalkboard on the front.

I have a proper database and a laptop in the kitchen.

> When you stock it up with things, mark them on the board. Then dry erase them when you get them out. It will give you
> an instant, visual reference.

A database is much better, mine has hundreds of items in it
with a date on each and when I use something, it auto pops
up the recipie and auto sets the alarm timers for the times
in the recipie. Works very elegantly indeed for the more
complex stuff like roast lamb and baked potatoes etc.

> Want some frozen rhubarb, corn or steaks? Look on the front of the freezer, and you'll instantly know whether it is
> even worth opening the door or not.

A database works much better.

> *browsing* is what eats up the coal & increases your electricity bill.

I doubt the effect is very great, essentially because the mass of frozen stuff is so great.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 11:12 am
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 03:44:22 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ohioguy wrote:
>
>> I greatly prefer the convenience of an upright freezer - it just seems easier to access everything inside.
>
>Yeah, me too.
>
>> In fact, I'd hazard a guess that since you don't have to take as much time to lift things out of the freezer and out
>> of the way to get things that are underneath, an upright could very well actually save money.
>
>I doubt it. There is so much mass of frozen stuff in a
>freezer that I doubt the effect of a bit longer with the lid
>open in a chest freezer is even measurable efficiency wise.
>
>> This is especially true if you bother to put something like a dry erase chalkboard on the front.
>
>I have a proper database and a laptop in the kitchen.
>

So you say. Oracle based SAP "Cooking" module I suppose.

>> When you stock it up with things, mark them on the board. Then dry erase them when you get them out. It will give you
>> an instant, visual reference.
>
>A database is much better, mine has hundreds of items in it
>with a date on each and when I use something, it auto pops
>up the recipie and auto sets the alarm timers for the times
>in the recipie. Works very elegantly indeed for the more
>complex stuff like roast lamb and baked potatoes etc.
>

Database, eh? What you've said is utterly stupid.
Only a truly lame nerd would so complicate keeping food and cooking up
a meal.
And no revenge for you either, nerd.
Trouble cooking lamb and spuds, eh?
Elegant? You hammering a keyboard in an attempt to first find, then
figure how to cook lamb and spuds "elegant?"
Think again.
Just shows the complete and utter stupidity of a man without a wife,
who would do all that in a trice and without a thought while handling
a few other chores at the same time.
Bet your computer generated food is horrible too. But I'm sure you're
convinced it's great stuff.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 12:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Vic Smith wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Ohioguy wrote

>>> I greatly prefer the convenience of an upright freezer
>>> - it just seems easier to access everything inside.

>> Yeah, me too.

>>> In fact, I'd hazard a guess that since you don't have to take as much
>>> time to lift things out of the freezer and out of the way to get things
>>> that are underneath, an upright could very well actually save money.

>> I doubt it. There is so much mass of frozen stuff in a
>> freezer that I doubt the effect of a bit longer with the lid
>> open in a chest freezer is even measurable efficiency wise.

>>> This is especially true if you bother to put something like a dry erase chalkboard on the front.

>> I have a proper database and a laptop in the kitchen.

> So you say. Oracle based SAP "Cooking" module I suppose.

Guess again.

>>> When you stock it up with things, mark them on the board.
>>> Then dry erase them when you get them out. It will give
>>> you an instant, visual reference.

>> A database is much better, mine has hundreds of items in it
>> with a date on each and when I use something, it auto pops
>> up the recipie and auto sets the alarm timers for the times
>> in the recipie. Works very elegantly indeed for the more
>> complex stuff like roast lamb and baked potatoes etc.

> Database, eh?

Yep.

> What you've said is utterly stupid.

You shouldnt be so hard on yourself.

> Only a truly lame nerd would so complicate keeping food and cooking up a meal.

Nothing complicated about it, fool.

> And no revenge for you either, nerd.
> Trouble cooking lamb and spuds, eh?

Nope, just convenient to have the various timers involved happen completely auto, fuckwit.

> Elegant? You hammering a keyboard

Dont use the keyboard at all, fuckwit.

> in an attempt to first find, then figure how to cook lamb and spuds

Dont do that either, fuckwit.

> "elegant?" Think again.

Something you cant manage. Ear to ear dog shit cant do anything like that.

> Just shows the complete and utter stupidity of a man without
> a wife, who would do all that in a trice and without a thought
> while handling a few other chores at the same time.

And costs a hell of a lot more than the laptop, fuckwit.

> Bet your computer generated food is horrible too.

Guess which pathetic little pollack fuckwit has just gone face down in the mud, yet again ?

> But I'm sure you're convinced it's great stuff.

Leaves the shit you get stuck with for dead.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Capitalism and Evolution
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/270d1b2cdaaa7015?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 6:29 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 3, 12:04 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 11:08 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote
>
> > > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> > >> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote
> > >>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic Enterprises
> > >>> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > >>>> On Jun 2, 6:58 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>>>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of
> > >>>>> Quixotic Enterprises wrote
>
> > >>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> > >>>>>>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of
> > >>>>>>> Quixotic Enterprises wrote
> > >>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> > >>>>>>>>> Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> People who have no knowledge of capitalist economics, such as
> > >>>>>>>>>> ones who lived in the Soviet Union, frequently find it
> > >>>>>>>>>> unfathomable
> > >>>>>>>>>> how a system like America's, which is not command-control,
> > >>>>>>>>>> could
> > >>>>>>>>>> have such an intelligent design. That there is a store for
> > >>>>>>>>>> everything,
> > >>>>>>>>>> there is something for every purse and purpose, and pieces
> > >>>>>>>>>> fit together,
> > >>>>>>>>> Quite poorly at times, most obviously with 'street' people.
> > >>>>>>>>>> leads them to think that all this prosperity must have been
> > >>>>>>>>>> designed by the government.
> > >>>>>>>>> And even in america, plenty of fools believe that some
> > >>>>>>>>> president or other is responsible for the complete implosion
> > >>>>>>>>> of the entire world financial system etc too.
> > >>>>>>>> I don't believe this president is, but the former one surely
> > >>>>>>>> contributed greatly to it by HIDING THE COST OF WAR.
> > >>>>>>> Have fun explaining why hiding the cost of WW2, the cold war,
> > >>>>>>> Korea, Vietnam etc etc etc didnt do that.
> > >>>>>>>> American capitalism is not as spontaneous as it seems.
> > >>>>>>> Corse it is. And thats why it left the USSR etc for dead.
> > >>>>>>>> The dinosaurs (SUVs) have been promoted by loopholes in the
> > >>>>>>>> laws,
> > >>>>>>> They are popular even where there are completely different laws,
> > >>>>>>> essentially because so many stupid women feel safer in them.
> > >>>>>>>> while the bicycles and alternative transportation struggle with
> > >>>>>>>> little help from the designer.
> > >>>>>>> Thats just plain wrong too. There is in fact plenty of design
> > >>>>>>> effort that goes into those.
> > >>>>>>> Their problem is that some of the fundamental problems are just
> > >>>>>>> not possible to
> > >>>>>>> design around, most obviously with the MUCH higher risk of
> > >>>>>>> serious injury with a
> > >>>>>>> bike with even a very minor accident that would just be a
> > >>>>>>> complete yawn in a car.
> > >>>>>>>> In other words, WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF STUPID DESIGN.
> > >>>>>>> There is no design, we evolved, stupid.
> > >>>>>> Instead of engaging in a long winding discussion, which would
> > >>>>>> only prove you wrong,
>
> > >>>>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>
> > >>>>>> I let you take a peak at life under the revolution (INTELLIGENT
> > >>>>>> DESIGN)...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQTTG3NcYY
>
> > >>>>> Just another completely mindless steaming turd.
>
> > >>>>>> "Public transportation should be A1.
>
> > >>>>> Only a fool bothers with it.
>
> > >>>>>> (The city of Curitiba, in Brazil,offers us a functional model of
> > >>>>>> transportation;
>
> > >>>>> Pity Brazil is an economic basket case.
>
> > >>>>>> bicycle lanes should be implemented along all major streets.)
>
> > >>>>> Complete waste of street space given that so few are stupid enough
> > >>>>> to ride a bike.
>
> > >>>>>> Our roads, where the Law of the Jungle rules, should be
> > >>>>>> made safer, say by enforcing passing on the left only."
>
> > >>>>> Makes a lot more sense to run those stupid enough to ride a bike
> > >>>>> down.
>
> > >>>> Cyclists in America earn the Darwin's Award for Stupidity --or
> > >>>> bravery, since the two often go together.
>
> > >>>> Money is the only thing driving evolution in America.
>
> > >>>> Of course, 99% of it is wasted.
> > >>> I think
>
> > >> Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought.
>
> > >>> James Lerner has turned philosopher like me
>
> > >> You're not a philosopher, just another wanker.
>
> > >>> and has made a commitment to SIMPLICITY and INTELLIGENT DESIGN...
> > >>> (This is truly inspiring)
>
> > >> Nope.
>
> > >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRD3l3rlMpo&NR=1&feature=fvwp
>
> > >> Just another completely mindless steaming turd/wank.
> > > So what's your solution, wise guy?
>
> > There is no solution, stupid monkey.
>
> > Do you have any fucking solution to
>
> > > the oil spills or climate change or the fact that space is denied to
> > > the cyclists?
>
> > > I don't like wanking for peace, but that's obviously the only escape
> > > for most Americans who want to burn the calories.
>
> Jesus coming soon? Obama? ;)

Anyway we know Obama ain't gonna do it because of the Republican
opposition, so let's pray for the revolution. Or better, do something
for the revolution, something like RIDING A BIKE or TURNING OFF THE A/
C AND CHILLING IN A HAMMOCK.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 6:29 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 3, 5:01 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
>
>
>
> Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > On Jun 2, 10:35 pm, "bigflet...@gmail.com" <bigflet...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> On Jun 3, 12:01 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana
> >> and Chief of Quixotic Enterprises" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> On Jun 2, 9:08 am, "bigflet...@gmail.com" <bigflet...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Jun 2, 9:01 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> >>>> ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic Enterprises"
> >>>> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>> It all makes sense, except that in such capitalist jungle the
> >>>>> predators run the process of evolution (selling Stupid Unnecessary
> >>>>> Vehicles, for example) instead of looking for a balanced and
> >>>>> equitable development (such as providing bike facilities or public
> >>>>> transportation). This is the dinosaurs in the middle of the
> >>>>> Jurassic refusing to evolve to smarter ways of life, surely
> >>>>> influenced by religion's denial of evolution.
>
> >>>> Even religions evolve, because peoples level of understanding
> >>>> evolves.
>
> >>>> A jesuit friend from way back was told at the seminary, that the
> >>>> the yellow races where the 'devils people'. He was very open
> >>>> minded many years after where he told me they are now seen to be
> >>>> the lifeline of the future of the Catholic church'.
>
> >>>> He missed the irony of his own words.
>
> >>>> BOfL
>
> >>> We are evolving alright, but we are going too slow to save
> >>> ourselves.
>
> >>> That's where R-EVOLUTION kicks in.
>
> >>> Revolution as in Banana Revolution. ;)
>
> >>> YOU HAVEN'T SEEN A REVOLUTION LIKE THIS IN THE LAST 65 MILLION
> >>> YEARS...
>
> >>>http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION-Hidequoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> Smacks more of devolution to me, but there is no going back.
>
> >> BOfL
>
> > Only if you call devolution "back to basics."
> > What the fuck we need an SUV for when we can be riding a bike for shorter distances?
>
> Because with a car or SUV, if someone does something stupid, and that happens all the time,
> you have an excellent chance of surviving that. Not if you are stupid enough to ride a bike tho.

Yeah, and you also have an excellent chance to kill two or three
innocent people when you drive with reckless abandon phone in hand.

>
> > The old-fashioned-way is often the best
>
> Not in this case it aint.

Yes, human beings haven't adapted to the idiotic life of the couch
potato and get diseases and obese.

>
> > and walking is probably what Americans need to get in shape
>
> Yes, but thats not riding a bike.

That's part of it. The bicycle is more efficient than walking.

>
> > and kick the TV addiction.
>
> Your addictions are your problem, monkey boy.

It is not. Mine is the Internet because I'm in the cage anyway and I'm
fighting those who keep me in the cage.

>
> > WE ARE HUNTER GATHERERS
>
> Nope, havent been that for millennia now.

Yeah, sure. We still walked around until the advent of the car.

>
> > NOT COUCH POTATOES!
>
> You're the potato, monkeyboy.

Maybe "Internet potato."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are currently your best saving tips ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a23335cb8985c73c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 6:42 am
From: The Natural Philosopher

Rod Speed wrote:
> Coffee's For Closers wrote
>> BigELilE05@msn.com wrote
>>> Eric <pag...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also practice,
>>>> relating to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
>>>> it's for food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
>
>>> I'm not gonna read the 230+ thread on this subject, but since I live
>>> alone, I keep my hot water heater turned off up until 30 minutes
>>> before I need to take a shower.
>
>>> Also, I live in FL, and my pipes are in the attic.
>
>>> During the summer, I don't even have to use the HW heater,
>>> because I get hot water from the pipes being in the attic.
>
>> I recall bringing up this kind of idea here in the past, and
>> someone mentioned the risk of Legionares' Disease growing in the
>> hot water system, due to lack of sufficient heating to kill it.
>
> In practice that doesnt happen with solar hot water systems.
>
>
It does.

But legionnaires is only an issue if you shower, since its inhaled
bacteria that are bad news.

And who wants to shower in tepid water anyway?

all solar and heatpump systems use immersion heaters to get water up to
60C plus if the prime source wont do it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What the Christians don't know makes them fat and stupid
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1c5528bbe32439c3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 7:36 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

Believing in Jesus or not is not a harmless thing like believing in
Buddha and sitting under a tree in frugality, it's choosing to indulge
and be ignorant about things that matter such as where we came from.
Ask any Christian what is a HUNTER-GATHERER, and you'll get a blank
stare like that one of a sheep. Simply there's no place for such stage
of evolution in the Bible because we were created 6,000 years ago and
provided by God with the easy life in the Garden of Eden...

Then it's natural that we seek the happy life in the comfort of the
couch and the SUV, and get fat and stupid. I'll quote from a diet plan
that doesn't go by a fancy name (not for sheep)...

"The hypothalamus is a part of the brain stem. It is the oldest part
of the brain. It is in control of our involuntary functions, including
fat storage. The hypothalamus thinks we should still be HUNTER-
GATHERERS, so our society changed and we started eating scheduled
meals with much higher calorie intake, the hypothalamus hit the limit
of calories it knew how to process. To compensate for the extra
calories, it pushed these aside into abnormal fat stores. These fat
stores were then forgotten by the brain and inaccessible by body to
use as fuel." ('Pounds & Inches' by Dr. Simeons)

Anyway THE HAPPY LIFE OF SHEEP IN THE BIG CITY may not be as happy as
they claim...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZw3T3X7E60

-----------------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"Life's riding a biking then throwing your carcass on a hammock"

http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE (plan A)

htttp://webspawner.com/users/MASTURBATIONFORPEACE (plan B)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: my first cruise
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4877531a612db451?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 8:19 am
From: Ohioguy

My wife and I are going to go on a cruise in early October. This
will be the first time in several years that we will get a full week off
from our kids to go off and do something.

I'm interested in magic shows, buffets, and quiet so that I can get
some reading done.

Was wondering if anyone had suggestions on:

A) how to keep total costs down (I've heard that large amounts of
tipping are expected, or even required on most cruise lines for
just about everything)

B) whether one cruise line is pretty much like another

I've been looking at available trips on cruisecheap.com, but they
don't come with the required airfare. Would I be better off looking for
a local travel agent who can set everything up, or would that actually
increase the likelihood of losing out on a really good deal?

Thanks!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 10:48 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Ohioguy wrote:

> My wife and I are going to go on a cruise in early October. This will be the first time in several years that we will
> get a full week off from our kids to go off and do something.

Dont forget who will be picking your nursing home...

> I'm interested in magic shows, buffets, and quiet so that I can get some reading done.

> Was wondering if anyone had suggestions on:

> A) how to keep total costs down (I've heard that large amounts of tipping are expected,

I never tip, whatever they expect.

> or even required on most cruise lines for just about everything)

They cant require it, fuckem.

> B) whether one cruise line is pretty much like another

Nope, the worst to them can kill you if there is a serious problem like a fire etc.

> I've been looking at available trips on cruisecheap.com, but they
> don't come with the required airfare. Would I be better off looking
> for a local travel agent who can set everything up, or would that
> actually increase the likelihood of losing out on a really good deal?

You're likely to be able to come up with a better
deal yourself if you dont mind the effort of doing that.

Corse things can come unstuck if the plane is delayed
and you dont make it by the time the ship has left etc.
Package deals usually do handle that better.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gift 4 U
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/61894831e80f4a1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 8:32 am
From: ekr3d

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* Take this gift *
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******************
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************************

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free-ekramy.blogspot.com/2010/05/7-steps-to-great-makeup.html

*****************************
Ekramy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple hack to get $500 to your home.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0aff506b0bed631f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 8:49 am
From: money mania

Simple hack to get $500 to your home at http://uslatest.tk

Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an
image. in that website on left side below search box, click on image
and enter your name and address where you want to receive your
cheque.please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e7c60718d83a8861?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 9:12 am
From: KAJOL

See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.
at http://uknews.tk

Due to high sex content,i have hidden the videos in an image. in that
website on left side below search box click on image and watch
videos in all angles.please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: These are the laws that will protect the Cyclists under the Revolution
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/43aee8b3326b0220?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 10:49 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
Enterprises"

On Jun 3, 12:41 pm, smutt butt <smuttbut...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 29, 11:59 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana
> and Chief of Quixotic Enterprises" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > No matter whether the revolution comes to power in Mexico (Jalapeno
> > Revolution) or any other third world Banana Republic which today
> > copies lifestyles from the West (SUVs and all), these are the general
> > conditions set out by the Comandante (me)...
>
> > a) Bicycles are vehicles, thereby they are entitled to taking the lane
> > --cars must clear the lane 30' before and after
> >http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> The bicyclists that refuse to let vehicles pass are shit. They should
> be run over without prosecution.
> Same goes for joggers who run on the fukkin road.

The cyclists are doing what you should be doing: You are part of the
problem; they are part of the solution.

So give them at least ONE FULL WIDE LANE.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 10 new messages in 4 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Freezer question, your experience. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6c40f512af1456d1?hl=en
* Western women are so repressed because they are insecure - 3 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/221235c3afb6b6c0?hl=en
* What are currently your best saving tips ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a23335cb8985c73c?hl=en
* Capitalism and Evolution - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/270d1b2cdaaa7015?hl=en

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 7:33 pm
From: Sqwertz

On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 17:20:17 +0100, john hamilton wrote:

> We need to buy a freezer. The *chest* type is what we want with the lid on
> the top.

Why do people prefer chest freezers? Uprights take up less floor
space (you can't stack stuff on top of your chest freezer), and
with a moderately full freezer, you have remove a bunch of stuff
to get what you're looking for - even if you can find it at all.

How may times have we heard the comment "Found xyz in my chest
freezer. I think it's nnn years old.". And then possibly "is it
still good?"

-sw

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 8:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Doug Miller wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Doug Miller wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Doug Miller wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Fake ID wrote
>>>>>>> Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote
>>>>>>>> john hamilton wrote

>>>>>>>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the
>>>>>>>>> air inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped the
>>>>>>>>> theory is that it will not need defrosting as often as normal.

>>>>>>>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>>>>>>>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>>>>>>>> unopened milk cartons burst?

>>>>>>> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?

>>>>>> Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents freeze.

>>>>> Wrong.

>>>> Nope, I do it quite a bit with milk, basically when defrosting the fridge.

>>> Fill a cardboard milk carton with water, freeze it, and see what happens.

>> Like I said, I did that quite a bit when defrosting the fridge, not one ever burst.

> You're a liar.

Have you the remotest idea how pathetic you look in the eyes of someone who has done what they said ?

Obviously not.

> Either:
> a) you never did it at all
> b) you didn't actually *fill* the cartons
> c) you're lying about them not bursting.

d) you dont have a fucking clue and others have said the same as I have.

>>> According to you, it won't burst. But you're wrong.

>> Nope, not one ever burst.

> Liar.

Have you the remotest idea how pathetic you look in the eyes of someone who has done what they said ?

Obviously not.

>>> Leave a six-pack of beer in your car trunk overnight in the middle
>>> of the winter. According to you, the cans won't burst. But you're wrong.

>> Nope, not one has ever burst here, and dont when you put them in the freezer either.

> You're lying again. You never did it.

Have you the remotest idea how pathetic you look in the eyes of someone who has done what they said ?

Obviously not.

>> The only ones that have ever burst have been in glass containers, what we call stubbys.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 8:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Sqwertz wrote
> john hamilton wrote

>> We need to buy a freezer. The *chest* type is what we want with the lid on the top.

> Why do people prefer chest freezers?

They can be cheaper for the same capacity than uprights,
because there is fuck all in the way of shelves etc in them
and the lid is easier to make etc.

> Uprights take up less floor space (you can't stack stuff on top of your
> chest freezer), and with a moderately full freezer, you have remove a
> bunch of stuff to get what you're looking for - even if you can find it at all.

Yeah, they're a fucked approach to freezers, tho the floor space isnt
necessarily a problem if you're stupid enough to not have it in the kitchen.

> How may times have we heard the comment "Found xyz in my chest
> freezer. I think it's nnn years old.". And then possibly "is it still good?"

You get the same thing with uprights too.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:00 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 06/02/10 06:42, Doug Miller wrote:

> In article<hu4eqh$96h$1@news.eternal-september.org>, The Real Bev<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 06/01/10 19:00, Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Lou Decruss<LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote:
>>>>spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>> spamtrap1888<spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>>>>>summer and colder in winter.
>>>>>
>>>>>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>>>>
>>>>I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder why someone would
>>>>insist on a chest freezer.
>>>
>>> I've always wondered that too -- or, more specifically, why anyone would even
>>> consider a chest freezer.
>>
>>The cold doesn't leak out when you open the door.
>
> That's basically irrelevant. You *might* lose five to ten cubic feet of cold
> air when opening an upright freezer -- let's call it ten. Ten cubic feet of
> air has a mass of around one pound. That's not going to make any noticeable
> difference in the temperature inside, unless you *leave* the door open.

Frugal people automatically consider efficiency and waste, no matter how tiny
or trivial. We may decide to ignore it, but if everything else is equal
there's no point in NOT wasting something.

>>> That large flat area is such a tempting place to set
>>> all kinds of crap on top of...
>>
>>And you think that's a bad thing?
>
> Makes it kinda hard to open the lid.
>
>>Invest in one of those nice sturdy chrome
>>rolling shelf units -- when you need something in the freezer just roll it
>>away. If that won't fit around the freezer, hang shelves or cabinets above it.
>
> Or just get an upright freezer.

That's what my mom did, for convenience. She filled any excess space with jugs
of water.

>>Horizontal space should NEVER be wasted.
>
> Which of course is yet another reason for *not* getting a chest freezer: it
> takes up twice as much floor space as an upright.

You're right. If I ever buy a freezer (possibly around the time that it will no
longer be needed because hell has frozen over) I'll get an upright. You can
stack LOTS of crap on an upright...

--
Cheers, Bev
---------------------------------------
That's my opinion. Ought to be yours.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 7:54 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <d2f783c6-a19d-4187-a580-4df6357afee6@q33g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
TibetanMonkey wrote:
>These are the causes and consequences of obesity in America...
>
>Results: The direct costs of lack of physical activity, defined
>conservatively as absence of leisure-time physical activity, are
>approximately 24 billion dollars or 2.4% of the U.S. health care
>expenditures. Direct costs for obesity defined as body mass index
>greater than 30, in 1995 dollars, total 70 billion dollars. These
>costs are independent of those resulting from lack of activity.
>
>Conclusion: Overall, the direct costs of inactivity and obesity
>account for some 9.4% of the national health care expenditures in the
>United States. Inactivity, with its wide range of health consequences,
>represents a major avoidable contribution to the costs of illness in
>the United States and other countries with modern lifestyles that have
>replaced physical labor with sedentary occupations and motorized
>transportation.
>
>http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/1999/11001/Economic_costs_of_obesity_and_inactivity.26.aspx
>
>IS THE FAT SHEEP A HAPPY SHEEP?
>
>But if you look on the bright side of it, the Medical Industry reaps
>the benefits. ;)

In addition, many Americans have overweightness short of "obesity" but
bad enough to be an *outright diagnosable bad thing*.

Furthermore, there is the matter of sedentary lifestyle. Plenty of my
fellow Americans like to think that they can diet their way to
healthfulness while being sedentary, especially as espoused by "low carb".
I see higher success rate from being physically active. My best friend
other than my boyfriend is known to have above-USA-average percentage of
dietary calorie intake being in form of carbs, and is a lean 130 pounder
whose height is 5-foot-7-inches. His blood analysis is high-to-new-record
expectable from his cardiologist after making dietary changes (away from
fatty stuff, meats and cheese and oil-rich salad dressings) and to spend
on daily average maybe 1.5 hours of "walking his ass off". That includes
blood concentration of triglycerides!
That friend of mine did this to successfully minimise repeating a heart
attack that he survived so far, already 2-plus years and 25-30 pounds of
body fat poundage [as in burned off in recent years as opposed to gained]
after the heart attack that he is surviving so far.
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:17 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 2, 10:27 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In <86e2ac01-ce28-40af-aeae-52242f4d1...@q13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >On Jun 1, 8:43 pm, xeno <69black...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 1, 2:21 pm, TibetanMonkey wrote:
>
> >> > They push the cyclists to the sidewalks
>
> >> Yah, but some cyclists terrorize peds. Or they don't give a fuck.
>
> >I know. And many of them don't give a shit about the revolution
> >either, which is the only hope.
>
> >I say, "ISSUE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS ON SIDEWALK." They do it here but
> >only in the area where the beautiful people live.
>
> What's so bad about issuing tickets to cagers that violate the law in
> ways of pushing cyclists onto sidewalks?
>
> (For that matter, also issuing tickets to cyclists as well as all
> other vehicle drivers who fail to yield to pedestrians where the the
> law says pedestrians rule over vehicles?)
>
> (I hope enough said by me... If there is debate that I have to get
> back into, I disclaim responsibility to get back in quicker than a day or
> 2 or 3...)
>
> --
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

There's something very old called "safety in numbers." Key West
cyclists are respected, but Miami drivers are somewhat less valuable
than dogs and cats because they can only blame themselves for being
on the road...

So the solution is as complex as the jungle: Educate drivers, enforce
the laws, give tickets to cyclists on sidewalks.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:21 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

I always mention this word and my girlfriend was reading me some diet
that mentions it by name: WE WERE 'HUNTER-GATHERERS,' and all of a
sudden became couch potatoes.

But nobody really minds that we get diseases because we got the
Medical Industry to take care of us. :(

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 8:07 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Coffee's For Closers wrote
> BigELilE05@msn.com wrote
>> Eric <pag...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also practice,
>>> relating to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
>>> it's for food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.

>> I'm not gonna read the 230+ thread on this subject, but since I live
>> alone, I keep my hot water heater turned off up until 30 minutes
>> before I need to take a shower.

>> Also, I live in FL, and my pipes are in the attic.

>> During the summer, I don't even have to use the HW heater,
>> because I get hot water from the pipes being in the attic.

> I recall bringing up this kind of idea here in the past, and
> someone mentioned the risk of Legionares' Disease growing in the
> hot water system, due to lack of sufficient heating to kill it.

In practice that doesnt happen with solar hot water systems.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 8:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote
>>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic Enterprises
>>> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> On Jun 2, 6:58 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of
>>>>> Quixotic Enterprises wrote
>>
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of
>>>>>>> Quixotic Enterprises wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Ilya Shambat wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> People who have no knowledge of capitalist economics, such as
>>>>>>>>>> ones who lived in the Soviet Union, frequently find it
>>>>>>>>>> unfathomable
>>>>>>>>>> how a system like America's, which is not command-control,
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>> have such an intelligent design. That there is a store for
>>>>>>>>>> everything,
>>>>>>>>>> there is something for every purse and purpose, and pieces
>>>>>>>>>> fit together,
>>>>>>>>> Quite poorly at times, most obviously with 'street' people.
>>>>>>>>>> leads them to think that all this prosperity must have been
>>>>>>>>>> designed by the government.
>>>>>>>>> And even in america, plenty of fools believe that some
>>>>>>>>> president or other is responsible for the complete implosion
>>>>>>>>> of the entire world financial system etc too.
>>>>>>>> I don't believe this president is, but the former one surely
>>>>>>>> contributed greatly to it by HIDING THE COST OF WAR.
>>>>>>> Have fun explaining why hiding the cost of WW2, the cold war,
>>>>>>> Korea, Vietnam etc etc etc didnt do that.
>>>>>>>> American capitalism is not as spontaneous as it seems.
>>>>>>> Corse it is. And thats why it left the USSR etc for dead.
>>>>>>>> The dinosaurs (SUVs) have been promoted by loopholes in the
>>>>>>>> laws,
>>>>>>> They are popular even where there are completely different laws,
>>>>>>> essentially because so many stupid women feel safer in them.
>>>>>>>> while the bicycles and alternative transportation struggle with
>>>>>>>> little help from the designer.
>>>>>>> Thats just plain wrong too. There is in fact plenty of design
>>>>>>> effort that goes into those.
>>>>>>> Their problem is that some of the fundamental problems are just
>>>>>>> not possible to
>>>>>>> design around, most obviously with the MUCH higher risk of
>>>>>>> serious injury with a
>>>>>>> bike with even a very minor accident that would just be a
>>>>>>> complete yawn in a car.
>>>>>>>> In other words, WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF STUPID DESIGN.
>>>>>>> There is no design, we evolved, stupid.
>>>>>> Instead of engaging in a long winding discussion, which would
>>>>>> only prove you wrong,
>>
>>>>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>>
>>>>>> I let you take a peak at life under the revolution (INTELLIGENT
>>>>>> DESIGN)...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQTTG3NcYY
>>
>>>>> Just another completely mindless steaming turd.
>>
>>>>>> "Public transportation should be A1.
>>
>>>>> Only a fool bothers with it.
>>
>>>>>> (The city of Curitiba, in Brazil,offers us a functional model of
>>>>>> transportation;
>>
>>>>> Pity Brazil is an economic basket case.
>>
>>>>>> bicycle lanes should be implemented along all major streets.)
>>
>>>>> Complete waste of street space given that so few are stupid enough
>>>>> to ride a bike.
>>
>>>>>> Our roads, where the Law of the Jungle rules, should be
>>>>>> made safer, say by enforcing passing on the left only."
>>
>>>>> Makes a lot more sense to run those stupid enough to ride a bike
>>>>> down.
>>
>>>> Cyclists in America earn the Darwin's Award for Stupidity --or
>>>> bravery, since the two often go together.
>>
>>>> Money is the only thing driving evolution in America.
>>
>>>> Of course, 99% of it is wasted.
>>> I think
>>
>> Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought.
>>
>>> James Lerner has turned philosopher like me
>>
>> You're not a philosopher, just another wanker.
>>
>>> and has made a commitment to SIMPLICITY and INTELLIGENT DESIGN...
>>> (This is truly inspiring)
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRD3l3rlMpo&NR=1&feature=fvwp
>>
>> Just another completely mindless steaming turd/wank.

> So what's your solution, wise guy?

There is no solution, stupid monkey.

Do you have any fucking solution to
> the oil spills or climate change or the fact that space is denied to
> the cyclists?
>
> I don't like wanking for peace, but that's obviously the only escape
> for most Americans who want to burn the calories.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 9:04 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 2, 11:08 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote
>
>
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote
> >>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic Enterprises
> >>> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>>> On Jun 2, 6:58 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of
> >>>>> Quixotic Enterprises wrote
>
> >>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>>>>> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of
> >>>>>>> Quixotic Enterprises wrote
> >>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>>>>>>> Ilya Shambat wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> People who have no knowledge of capitalist economics, such as
> >>>>>>>>>> ones who lived in the Soviet Union, frequently find it
> >>>>>>>>>> unfathomable
> >>>>>>>>>> how a system like America's, which is not command-control,
> >>>>>>>>>> could
> >>>>>>>>>> have such an intelligent design. That there is a store for
> >>>>>>>>>> everything,
> >>>>>>>>>> there is something for every purse and purpose, and pieces
> >>>>>>>>>> fit together,
> >>>>>>>>> Quite poorly at times, most obviously with 'street' people.
> >>>>>>>>>> leads them to think that all this prosperity must have been
> >>>>>>>>>> designed by the government.
> >>>>>>>>> And even in america, plenty of fools believe that some
> >>>>>>>>> president or other is responsible for the complete implosion
> >>>>>>>>> of the entire world financial system etc too.
> >>>>>>>> I don't believe this president is, but the former one surely
> >>>>>>>> contributed greatly to it by HIDING THE COST OF WAR.
> >>>>>>> Have fun explaining why hiding the cost of WW2, the cold war,
> >>>>>>> Korea, Vietnam etc etc etc didnt do that.
> >>>>>>>> American capitalism is not as spontaneous as it seems.
> >>>>>>> Corse it is. And thats why it left the USSR etc for dead.
> >>>>>>>> The dinosaurs (SUVs) have been promoted by loopholes in the
> >>>>>>>> laws,
> >>>>>>> They are popular even where there are completely different laws,
> >>>>>>> essentially because so many stupid women feel safer in them.
> >>>>>>>> while the bicycles and alternative transportation struggle with
> >>>>>>>> little help from the designer.
> >>>>>>> Thats just plain wrong too. There is in fact plenty of design
> >>>>>>> effort that goes into those.
> >>>>>>> Their problem is that some of the fundamental problems are just
> >>>>>>> not possible to
> >>>>>>> design around, most obviously with the MUCH higher risk of
> >>>>>>> serious injury with a
> >>>>>>> bike with even a very minor accident that would just be a
> >>>>>>> complete yawn in a car.
> >>>>>>>> In other words, WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF STUPID DESIGN.
> >>>>>>> There is no design, we evolved, stupid.
> >>>>>> Instead of engaging in a long winding discussion, which would
> >>>>>> only prove you wrong,
>
> >>>>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>
> >>>>>> I let you take a peak at life under the revolution (INTELLIGENT
> >>>>>> DESIGN)...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQTTG3NcYY
>
> >>>>> Just another completely mindless steaming turd.
>
> >>>>>> "Public transportation should be A1.
>
> >>>>> Only a fool bothers with it.
>
> >>>>>> (The city of Curitiba, in Brazil,offers us a functional model of
> >>>>>> transportation;
>
> >>>>> Pity Brazil is an economic basket case.
>
> >>>>>> bicycle lanes should be implemented along all major streets.)
>
> >>>>> Complete waste of street space given that so few are stupid enough
> >>>>> to ride a bike.
>
> >>>>>> Our roads, where the Law of the Jungle rules, should be
> >>>>>> made safer, say by enforcing passing on the left only."
>
> >>>>> Makes a lot more sense to run those stupid enough to ride a bike
> >>>>> down.
>
> >>>> Cyclists in America earn the Darwin's Award for Stupidity --or
> >>>> bravery, since the two often go together.
>
> >>>> Money is the only thing driving evolution in America.
>
> >>>> Of course, 99% of it is wasted.
> >>> I think
>
> >> Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought.
>
> >>> James Lerner has turned philosopher like me
>
> >> You're not a philosopher, just another wanker.
>
> >>> and has made a commitment to SIMPLICITY and INTELLIGENT DESIGN...
> >>> (This is truly inspiring)
>
> >> Nope.
>
> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRD3l3rlMpo&NR=1&feature=fvwp
>
> >> Just another completely mindless steaming turd/wank.
> > So what's your solution, wise guy?
>
> There is no solution, stupid monkey.
>
> Do you have any fucking solution to
>
> > the oil spills or climate change or the fact that space is denied to
> > the cyclists?
>
> > I don't like wanking for peace, but that's obviously the only escape
> > for most Americans who want to burn the calories.

Jesus coming soon? Obama? ;)

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