Frugal Living: Jul 16, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Hot pot/Electric kettle
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da96a3557c9d4c9a?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 10:21 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 07/15/2010 10:11 PM, Bob F wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 07/15/2010 03:41 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 07/14/2010 12:19 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/13/2010 07:21 PM, aesthete8 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am hoping to find one that makes really hot water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The hotter the better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any recommendations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider getting an electric hot-water-on-demand faucet for your
>>>>>> kitchen sink. Hot enough for instant coffee or oatmeal and you
>>>>>> don't have to pay for the electricity to keep it hot even when
>>>>>> you're not using it. No, I don't have one, but my daughter does
>>>>>> and I love it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've had 2. Both leaked after awhile.
>>
>> Replace a gasket? Gas-tank repair stuff?
>>
>>>>> Where do you get the idea that you don't pay for the electricity
>>>>> to keep it hot even when you don't use it? Both of the hot water
>>>>> faucets I owned had small virtually uninsulated tanks heated by
>>>>> electricity as needed to keep them hot. Whether you used them or
>>>>> not. Unless you reached under the counter and unplugged them.
>>>>
>>>> Error! Keeping an electric kettle going all day uses electricity. A friend
>>>> used to keep her coffeemaker going all day until she
>>>> discovered that it accounted for a huge percentage of their
>>>> electric bill. OTOH, we don't know what the original poster wanted
>>>> the water for. Maybe he DOES use it all day.
>>>
>>> I can't quite understanding how this responds to my post.
>>>
>>> What's the error?
>>
>> It was my error, actually. I wasn't clear. If you have an electric
>> pot boiling water all day it's GOT to add quite a bit to your
>> electric bill. The instant-on water heater thingy only uses
>> electricity when you're actually taking water from it. Clearly much
>> cheaper. OTOH, since I don't know what the original poster wanted to
>> do with his hot water device, the always-on pot might make sense. Or
>> not.
>
> As I said, the "instant hot water"kitchen sink taps that I've had heat water
> inside a small tank. They cycle on off all day and night to keep the water hot,
> and the tanks have been virtually un-insulated. Since you likely would never
> turn them off, they might be worse than the kettle.
>
> I have never seen one that heats the water as you draw it. The water goes in the
> bottom and hot water comes out the top. Like a water heater, the output gets
> cooler if you draw too much at one time.

I ran the hot water for a few seconds and felt what appears to be a tank under
the sink. Room temperature, as was the tubing/piping. In theory with these
things you have an unlimited supply of hot water, so I don't see how a tank
would fit into that concept.

--
Cheers, Bev

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 6:22 am
From: SMS

On 14/07/10 7:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> Error! Keeping an electric kettle going all day uses electricity. A
> friend used to keep her coffeemaker going all day until she discovered
> that it accounted for a huge percentage of their electric bill.

A coffee maker keeps the heating coil on all the time--there is no
temperature sensor. An electric air pot does not. It works like your
water heater and turns on only when the water cools down enough to
require re-heating. Since it's insulated, it's not constantly cycling.
Almost certainly the small amount of electricity it uses to keep the
water hot is more cost-efficient than frequently heating small amounts
of water on an electric stove or in a microwave. The most cost-efficient
method of heating water with electricity is an immersion because _all_
the heat goes into the water. This is essentially how an electric water
heater works as well.

What would be best with an electric air pot is to have it on a timer
that turns it off during long periods of non-use, but keeps it on at
peak usage times.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 9:38 am
From: "Bob F"

The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>> As I said, the "instant hot water"kitchen sink taps that I've had
>> heat water inside a small tank. They cycle on off all day and night
>> to keep the water hot, and the tanks have been virtually
>> un-insulated. Since you likely would never turn them off, they might
>> be worse than the kettle. I have never seen one that heats the water as you
>> draw it. The water
>> goes in the bottom and hot water comes out the top. Like a water
>> heater, the output gets cooler if you draw too much at one time.
>
> I ran the hot water for a few seconds and felt what appears to be a
> tank under the sink. Room temperature, as was the tubing/piping. In
> theory with these things you have an unlimited supply of hot water,
> so I don't see how a tank would fit into that concept.

Maybe you actually found one with substantial insulation. I am pretty sure if
you took the "tank" apart, you'd find what looks like a baby tank water heater
inside. Try unplugging it overnight, than plug it in and see if the water
delivered immediately is full temp. If not, it is a tank type heater. If it is
full temp, let me know what the brand and model is - I might buy one.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:04 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Gary Heston wrote:
> In article <4c3d5aad$0$22131$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 13/07/10 7:21 PM, aesthete8 wrote:
>>> I am hoping to find one that makes really hot water.
>
>>> The hotter the better.
>
>>> Any recommendations?
>
>> I don't think any of them make hot water over 212 degrees F.
> [ ... ]
>
> Are there any pressure cookers with built-in elements? That
> would do it.
>
> As for the OP needing a way to cook smaller portions, try
> cooking the rice in a microwave. As long as the proportion
> of water to rice is correct, it should work fine.

It takes a bit of experimentation to get the rice and water ratio and
time right, but is by far the best way to cook rice in smaller volumes.

> Just be carefull when removing any cover you have on it to avoid steam burns.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MAKE UPTO $5000 MONTHLY! $2000 INYOUR FIRST 30 DAYS!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5179c865ae52ab88?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 2:40 am
From: jameser

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TOPIC: Making do with what you have
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f81da9d362768498?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 5:15 am
From: "Lou"

"h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:i1ljmh$7mk$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> "Vandy Terre" <vandy@tanglewood-destiny.com> wrote in message
> news:29hs36l4cvmvi9guei6p8c6grced8omfnp@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:45:04 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You know, you could save yourselves a bundle of time and money
>>>simply by quitting your jobs.
>>>>
>>
>> That is great if you have some means of income while staying home.
>> Meanwhile
>> most of us have a mortgage/ rent to pay.
>>
>> Now if you have some legitimate means of making income while staying
>> home,
>> please post it.
>>
>
> Start your own home-based business. I don't mean some internet scam, I
> mean figure out something you can make at home and sell on your own
> website. That's been my sole source of income since 1999.

So, out of curiosity, what is it that you make/sell?

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TOPIC: VENTURE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dd7e0de9a40188ef?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 7:25 am
From: Kelli Hughes

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Facebook hacker
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/178da35874905dfb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 7:38 am
From: noel888

I was duped into joining Facebook by a hacker. It looked completely
ligit. Now after losing $100 , the hacker's facebook site is gone. So
that confirms to me that i have been hacked. I would like to remove my
info and everything from Facebook, but there is no contact on how to
do this on their site. Does anyone here know how i can get out if?
Thanks

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 9:43 am
From: The Real Bev

On 07/16/2010 07:38 AM, noel888 wrote:

> I was duped into joining Facebook by a hacker. It looked completely
> ligit. Now after losing $100 , the hacker's facebook site is gone. So
> that confirms to me that i have been hacked. I would like to remove my
> info and everything from Facebook, but there is no contact on how to
> do this on their site. Does anyone here know how i can get out if?
> Thanks

I'm absolutely speechless at the idea that someone would pay money to join
facebook. Put it down to tuition for Lessons in Life and walk on.

--
Cheers, Bev

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 1:19 pm
From: Al

On Jul 16, 10:38 am, noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
> I was duped into joining Facebook by a hacker. It looked completely
> ligit. Now after losing $100 , the hacker's facebook site is gone. So
> that confirms to me that i have been hacked. I would like to remove my
> info and everything from Facebook, but there is no contact on how to
> do this on their site. Does anyone here know how i can get out if?
> Thanks

Sounds like you may not even be on the real Facebook. They allow you
change and restrict things. Viewing your profile, this is not the
first time you have been so easily scammed.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 2:00 pm
From: Millhaven

On Jul 16, 7:38 am, noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
> I was duped into joining Facebook by a hacker. It looked completely
> ligit. Now after losing $100 , the hacker's facebook site is gone. So
> that confirms to me that i have been hacked. I would like to remove my
> info and everything from Facebook, but there is no contact on how to
> do this on their site. Does anyone here know how i can get out if?
> Thanks

If you send me your user name, password and $20 I will take care of it
for you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can anyone recommend a bread machine that makes good whole wheat?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b6f96ebf5dbb9332?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 8:40 am
From: Bret_Halford

How exactly do you define "good"?
What characteristics in the resulting bread are you looking for?
In what ways are the current loafs falling short?

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 8:44 am
From: "bart.c"

"h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:i1ojii$i4c$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> "The Real Bev" <bashley101+es@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i1oi7b$a03$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 07/15/2010 03:55 PM, freeisbest wrote:
>
> Don't eat wheat/grain because it's poison. That's my best recommendation.

It must be a slow-acting one then, considering the number of people who eat
bread their whole lives then die at an advanced age of natural causes.

--
Bartc

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 9:44 am
From: The Real Bev

On 07/16/2010 08:44 AM, bart.c wrote:

> "h"<tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
> news:i1ojii$i4c$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101+es@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:i1oi7b$a03$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 07/15/2010 03:55 PM, freeisbest wrote:
>>
>> Don't eat wheat/grain because it's poison. That's my best recommendation.
>
> It must be a slow-acting one then, considering the number of people who eat
> bread their whole lives then die at an advanced age of natural causes.

There it is -- everybody who eats grain eventually dies from it. It just takes
longer for some to die than others.

--
Cheers, Bev

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 10:29 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Jul 15, 9:41 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:i1o959$2hu$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> Give up bread. Grain, particularly wheat, is poison.

Funny, I've been eating grain for more than 52 years,
and I'm still alive.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:05 pm
From: "h"

"bart.c" <bartc@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:z7%%n.272320$k15.157202@hurricane...
>
> "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
> news:i1ojii$i4c$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>> "The Real Bev" <bashley101+es@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:i1oi7b$a03$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 07/15/2010 03:55 PM, freeisbest wrote:
>>
>> Don't eat wheat/grain because it's poison. That's my best recommendation.
>
> It must be a slow-acting one then, considering the number of people who
> eat bread their whole lives then die at an advanced age of natural causes.
>

It doesn't injure everyone, of course, but asthma, acne, and nearly all
other auto-immune diseases are caused by consumption of wheat. I was
diagnosed with asthma in college, but it turned out to be wheat. Wheat was
never consumed in my home when I was growing up, and I never ate it until I
left home. Two slices of bread and I start to wheeze. The doctors wanted to
treat me with steroids. Umm, no, I'll just not eat wheat, thank you very
much.

It just kills me to see all those toxic drugs (some of which can cause
lymphoma!) being sold to "cure" what is simply an allergic reaction to wheat
gluten. Typical medical mentality - treat the symptoms without looking for
the cause.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:07 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou wrote:
> "freeisbest" <demeter547opine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:df119a64-598f-4a28-96d0-54bdfdfa318c@k39g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> I've owned two different bread machines, both from yard sales,
>> both in excellent condition when I got them (one was a surplus
>> wedding present and taken out of the box). I passed one along to a
>> friend next door and still occasionally use the other. They both
>> work, sorta, if you make only white bread, or if you don't mind
>> taking the w.w. dough out of the machine after the first rise and
>> baking the loaf in the oven.
>> Good bread is ridiculously expensive here in central NC.$5 and
>> $6 a loaf and I'm not going to pay that. Does anyone know if
>> there's a reasonably-priced machine that makes *good* 12-grain or
>> whole wheat bread from start to finish?
>> I really hope someone has information or suggestions for a
>> small- town gardener who would like tomato sandwiches make with our
>> own our tomatoes and homemade bread.
>> If I can't find a decent breadmaker, my nice crop of plum
>> tomatoes will have to be to vac-frozen soon. Thanks in advance, I
>> hope.
>
> Having never used, let alone owned, a bread machine, I can't directly
> respond to your question. But making bread using a food processor,
> or even by hand, isn't that difficult, though I'll grant it isn't automatic.

MUCH easier in a proper bread machine and you dont even need to clean anything either.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rice cooker which switches to OFF
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0e8d6a586e358bd3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 10:39 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Jul 15, 4:57 pm, Jeff Thies <jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Jul 13, 10:22 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Most r.c.'s seem to switch to WARM after the rice gets cooked.
>
> >> I need one which shuts off.
>
> >> Any suggestions?
>
> > Rice is pH-neutral and is among the more dangerous
> > foods to hold between 40 and 140 F. You probably
> > won't find one that shuts off.
>
> Never thought of that, what are safe temperatures to keep at? Can you
> keep rice refrigerated?

The general rule for any food is to keep it between 40 and 140 for no
more than an hour or two.

In the refrigerator, bacterial growth is slowed but not stopped.
Other
factors can inhibit bacterial growth (like acidity). Rice, however,
is a nearly perfect culture medium for bacteria.

I got the following from http://www.ochef.com/971.htm, but I think
it's too lenient about the time you can keep rice in the fridge.

There is a form of bacteria (bacillus cereus) that occurs naturally in
many samples of uncooked rice. It can survive the cooking process and
multiply to harmful levels if the rice is allowed to cool for an
extended period without refrigeration. Leftover cooked rice should be
placed in a shallow container to allow it to cool quickly, and stored
in the refrigerator for up to a week or in the freezer for half a year
or more.

Most other sites recommend 3 days for any leftovers. I violate
that often, but not with rice.

Cindy Hamilton

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 10:40 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Jul 15, 9:41 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:i1o984$48k$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >> > On Jul 13, 10:22 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Most r.c.'s seem to switch to WARM after the rice gets cooked.
>
> >> >> I need one which shuts off.
>
> >> >> Any suggestions?
>
> > Is there something wrong with a pot on the stovetop?
>
> Apparently. Whatever. Grain is poison.

Do you really think that by reiterating "grain is poison",
you'll pursuade ANYBODY to give it up? You sound
like a nutbar.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:00 pm
From: "234" <234@45.com>

Jeff Thies wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 10:22 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Most r.c.'s seem to switch to WARM after the rice gets cooked.
>>>
>>> I need one which shuts off.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Rice is pH-neutral and is among the more dangerous
>> foods to hold between 40 and 140 F. You probably
>> won't find one that shuts off.

> Never thought of that, what are safe temperatures to keep at?

Its likely that is radically overstated. The Jap army didnt bother
with crap like that during WW2 and it didnt cause any problems.

> Can you keep rice refrigerated?

Yep, works fine.

> I ask that because I have been thinking of eating more rice and the cookers all make more rice than I would eat at a
> meal.

Fridge is fine. It actually produces a better result with fried rice etc.

> For the OP. These devices are dead simple. You can take them apart easily and disconnect the warming. There ain't much
> in there.

> Jeff
> Who at one time or another has been inside almost every appliance.
>>
>> Why do you want this feature?
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou wrote:
>>> On Jul 13, 10:22 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Most r.c.'s seem to switch to WARM after the rice gets cooked.
>>>>
>>>> I need one which shuts off.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>
> Is there something wrong with a pot on the stovetop?

Yes, its more trouble than in the microwave or with a rice cooker.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:33 pm
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Jul 16, 3:00 pm, "234" <2...@45.com> wrote:
> Jeff Thies wrote:
> > Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> On Jul 13, 10:22 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Most r.c.'s seem to switch to WARM after the rice gets cooked.
>
> >>> I need one which shuts off.
>
> >>> Any suggestions?
>
> >> Rice is pH-neutral and is among the more dangerous
> >> foods to hold between 40 and 140 F. You probably
> >> won't find one that shuts off.
> > Never thought of that, what are safe temperatures to keep at?
>
> Its likely that is radically overstated. The Jap army didnt bother
> with crap like that during WW2 and it didnt cause any problems.

Were you in the Japanese army during WW2? Do you know what
the rates of food-borne illness were? Do you have any evidence
that the health and well-being of the soldiers were important to
the Japanese command structure?

Well, let's see. The choice seems to be to take simple, prudent
action to prevent food-borne illness, or to take risks that may
result in painful and possibly lethal results.

Seems a simple decision to me.

Cindy Hamilton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Burglar Alarms and Zawa Mall
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/065345541f6bf74d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 11:39 am
From: Jeff Thies

I'm buying a couple of houses and wanted to put in a burglar alarm.

First hit off a Google was this:

http://www.zawamall.com/Wireless-Anti-decode-6-Defense-Zones-Burglar-Alarm-System.21763

ZawaMall looks like direct from China, it has an odd and for some items
very cheap prices for a lot of functionality. Just reading some of the
product descriptions is worth a laugh.

http://www.zawamall.com/6-Ultra-Bright-Red-LEDs-Super-Sleuth-Camera-Detector.22666

·Defeating cheating spies or sleazy co workers, by activating this small
box and peering through the viewing window, you will see a reflection
from the iris of the camera enabling easy identification.
·A simple device that might just save your bacon, get one today and
eliminate the paranoia that comes from living in todays constant
surveillance society.

Any experience with Zawa or alarm suggestions?

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: what gets better as it ages?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d1848a9d25333b3a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 12:05 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

VFW wrote:
> Like firewood , as it dries it is better. You just have to set it out
> in the sun and wait, I can do that.
> And of course you're going to say that I get better with age.
> Like a fine cheese.
> what else improves with time?

Beer, scotch, wine, fruit cakes, like xmas cakes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does waiting for Jesus mean doing nothing?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2158b7ded652e0cf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 16 2010 1:37 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jul 16, 3:37 pm, Lefty <gn779...@cox.net> wrote:
> On 7/16/2010 10:19 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > On Jul 16, 10:00 am, Lefty<gn779...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On 7/15/2010 5:14 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>
> >> God does exist, and I say that as an atheist.
>
> > I think you are more of a living contradiction than the Christians.
>
> That would be you. Being an atheist is a belief that there is no god. It
> does not require a declaration that god is impossible.
>
> Being a Christian requires a belief in god and jesus christ. It does not
> require proof that god exists and that jesus was his son.
>
> See the similarity? You're a fundamentalist atheist. You're just the
> same as the mullahs in Iran.

I just believe in reality. A hardcore atheist would try to eradicate
religion. I don't. I just want to mitigate its effects: WARS,
INDIFFERENCE & LIES.

>
>
>
> > Coming out of the closet as a Christian is not that bad. ;)
>
> I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheist. I'm just not a fundamentalist.

If I saw a remote possibility of a supreme creator, I'd probably
change my camp.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Friday, July 16, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest