http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Are you worried BP goes under and the UK becomes the 51st State? - 3
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bd00e89370885700?hl=en
* Where do we get dealer's true cost (invoice?) for a Honda Accord or CRV? -
14 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/901b5c1615400969?hl=en
* business white pages - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/429a79f7a17cc9f6?hl=en
* The Americanization of the World - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6f48285144a7baef?hl=en
* Simple hack to get $500 to your home. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/02ff456e9b2ccf95?hl=en
* Found at a yard sale. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e3f355702e32daaa?hl=en
* "20 things you should never buy used" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f90c9c5ab9fd46a7?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are you worried BP goes under and the UK becomes the 51st State?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bd00e89370885700?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 9:25 pm
From: Derek C
On Jun 13, 3:27 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And get run over and squashed flat.
>
> Just because your traffic is as bad that we all playing a Russian
> Roulette on it.
I assume you are American because you are obviously totally nuts. I
note that the US has a very low rate of cycling, but a very high
cycling death rate. I hate to quote <cyclehelmets.org>, but:
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1079.html
Must be due to all those huge SUVs you have over there.
Derek C
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 8:07 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
On Jun 13, 12:25 am, Derek C <del.copel...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jun 13, 3:27 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 12, 9:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > And get run over and squashed flat.
>
> > Just because your traffic is as bad that we all playing a Russian
> > Roulette on it.
>
> I assume you are American because you are obviously totally nuts. I
> note that the US has a very low rate of cycling, but a very high
> cycling death rate. I hate to quote <cyclehelmets.org>, but:
>
> http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1079.html
>
> Must be due to all those huge SUVs you have over there.
>
> Derek C
Before we can talk about bike safety we must talk about TRAFFIC
SAFETY. I bet the average driver out there doesn't even question it
and politicians couldn't care less, but it's a NATIONAL CATASTROPHE.
The way to be safe is to go BIG. A cyclist is just a nuisance on the
road and can be pushed around at will.
No surprise we get those numbers.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 8:42 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
(Let me do my Sunday preaching about masturbation, hypocrisy, bicycles
and hammocks) ;)
On Jun 12, 9:58 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "BDK" <TopSh...@sanity.com> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.267c15e08cd5659998c382@news.buckeye-express.com...> In article <JbKdnf7wv7Q43o_RnZ2dnUVZ_hidn...@westnet.com.au>,
> > seo...@gmail.com says...
> >> No Christianity is bad for your brain. Masturbation is good for you, it
> >> cures the urge to have sex before marriage and thus it decreases the
> >> abortion rate. It also prevents rape and people acting out their
> >> perverted
> >> fantasies. If there was no Masturbation everyone would be as stuck up and
> >> high strung as Muslims. So when people call me a wanker I say yes, yes I
> >> am.
>
> > You're proving yourself to be weirder all the time. If you ever did have
> > sex, you would know how ridiculous what you posted was.
> > --
>
> As I explained to another poster I was trying to appeal to the religious nut
> who said masturbation is bad for you. Masturbation and sex is good for you.
> If Muslims masturbated more they wouldn't be so uptight.
The name of the game for religion is hypocrisy. They do everything but
feel good to attack it in public. Hundreds are dying in Mexico over
the stupid prohibition, but we must pretend we are fighting evil. And
they also use prescription drugs which are another dependency.
I guess the monkey goes restless from staying in the cage and must
look for different outlets like masturbation or xanax.
I bet going out in this beautiful Sunday morning would be a great way
to "burn the calories," but it's a jungle out there. Christians get in
their cars, go to church and then go shopping.
And I'll get in my hammock.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where do we get dealer's true cost (invoice?) for a Honda Accord or CRV?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/901b5c1615400969?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 12:46 am
From: "D. Ohl"
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:02:42 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the salesman
> and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you into caving-in and
> signing for a higher price than they quoted.
What I do is go to Car Bargains (checkbook.com) and get five iron-clad
faxed legal-contract quotes for how much they'll accept over dealer cost.
Then, I walk into any dealership during Monday-thru-Friday business hours
(the Fleet Manager doesn't work on weekends generally) and I hand the fleet
manager the lowest quote (even if it isn't from his dealership).
Say I had the five faxed quotes of:
- $400
- $600
- $600
- $800
- $1,000
And, say, the dealership I went to was in the 800-dollar range. That fleet
manager KNOWS that I can drive a bit to go to the 400-dollar dealership,
since these are all legal contracts, and he KNOWS I'm serious 'cuz I
wouldn't have gone to car bargains if I wasn't.
So, in five minutes, I walk out with the car.
WHy would anyone spend an hour haggling with a salesman? The only reason
for salesmen is for test driving to figure out which car you like. You buy
the car from the fleet manager who doesn't want to spend more than five
minutes concluding the deal and signing the paperwork.
== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 5:56 am
From: Tegger
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in news:87ikv6F4rgU1
@mid.individual.net:
> Tegger wrote:
>>
>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>
>> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
>> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>>
>> The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too
>> low. End of story.
>
> Its never that mindlessly black and white.
>
>
"Mindless"? Try sitting in the salesman's office for an hour while he and
his manager play vicious mind-games with you. "Mindless", my ass.
It takes, and I speak from personal experience, considerable personal
fortitude, savvy, and grit to tough-out the warfare wreaked upon the humble
buyer in the average new-car dealership.
My way is the /only/ way. Unless you're a many-times repeat customer for
that salesman, or your buddies own the dealership.
--
Tegger
== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 6:07 am
From: Tegger
MAS <mas@bbbb.net> wrote in news:hv16nm$ok0$1@news.datemas.de:
> On 6/12/2010 7:02 PM, Tegger wrote:
>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>
>> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
>> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>>
>> The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too
>> low. End of story.
>>
>
> If any car salesman says he can't authorize the deal, without going to
> his manager, I walk.
It appears to be true that the manager needs to sign-off on the deal. But
it ends up being just one more trick they use to mess with your mind and
break your resolve.
> One time, I had a salesman tell me he had to
> speak to his manager first. I could see his reflection, and pretty
> much the whole room, in a mirror while he was in the back room
> "talking with his manager." No one else was in the room - he was
> watching TV for a bit, while we were supposed to mull over his coming
> counter-offer.
That's very typical. The enforced and lonely waiting is what breaks people,
especially if they've made the fatal mistake of /really wanting/ that car.
Sometimes they ask for your credit card (ostensibly so they can ring up the
deposit on it should you buy), which is another "break" trick: You're not
going to walk out while they have your credit card. So I simply refuse to
hand it over.
The last time a salesman tried leaving me alone, I forced myself to relax
to the point where I almost fell asleep. I figured it would probably rattle
the salesman to find me asleep. I got my price, anyway.
> When he came back out and said the deal was rejected, I left.
You did the right thing. There are too many dealerships out there to waste
time on one that doesn't want your business. Even if you made a mistake
this time by offering too little, you can fix that at the next dealership.
My approach is to simply get on-the-road prices. I take care of my own
financing, and tell them there's no trade. Keep it simple. Make sure the
salesman knows that as soon as you find the car you want at a price within
your budget, you /are/ buying. The smell of a sale is catnip to salesmen,
which tends to work in your favor.
--
Tegger
== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 6:19 am
From: Tegger
"D. Ohl" <dohl@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
news:d79cdab94496ddd36432f386ca4e7aa0@tioat.net:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:02:42 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
>
>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>
> What I do is go to Car Bargains (checkbook.com)
Actually you go to checkbook.ORG.
Checkbook.com is a "parked" domain used as an advertising site.
The concept of checkbook.org is intriguing, and I'd never heard of it
before. They're US-based, and there's no mention of Canada (where I live)
on their site.
How do they get paid for what they do?
<snip>
>
> WHy would anyone spend an hour haggling with a salesman?
The haggling is all done on their side, not mine.
I have their quote, which pins down the price. Now all I need to do is get
them to /sign/ for that amount. It normally takes the salesman and his
manager a while to realize that I will not budge from the quoted amount, no
matter what they do to try and wear me down.
<snip>
--
Tegger
== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 6:26 am
From: aemeijers
Tegger wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in news:87ikv6F4rgU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> Tegger wrote:
>
>>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>>
>>> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
>>> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>>>
>>> The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too
>>> low. End of story.
>> Its never that mindlessly black and white.
>>
>>
>
>
> "Mindless"? Try sitting in the salesman's office for an hour while he and
> his manager play vicious mind-games with you. "Mindless", my ass.
>
> It takes, and I speak from personal experience, considerable personal
> fortitude, savvy, and grit to tough-out the warfare wreaked upon the humble
> buyer in the average new-car dealership.
>
> My way is the /only/ way. Unless you're a many-times repeat customer for
> that salesman, or your buddies own the dealership.
>
Rod Speed knows mindless rather well- he lives and breathes it every day.
== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 6:33 am
From: George
On 6/13/2010 9:19 AM, Tegger wrote:
> "D. Ohl"<dohl@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
> news:d79cdab94496ddd36432f386ca4e7aa0@tioat.net:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:02:42 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
>>
>>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>
>> What I do is go to Car Bargains (checkbook.com)
>
>
>
> Actually you go to checkbook.ORG.
>
> Checkbook.com is a "parked" domain used as an advertising site.
>
> The concept of checkbook.org is intriguing, and I'd never heard of it
> before. They're US-based, and there's no mention of Canada (where I live)
> on their site.
>
> How do they get paid for what they do?
"ORDER NOW
Avoid Hassles & Save Money
Only $200 ($175 for CHECKBOOK Subscribers)"
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> WHy would anyone spend an hour haggling with a salesman?
>
>
>
> The haggling is all done on their side, not mine.
>
> I have their quote, which pins down the price. Now all I need to do is get
> them to /sign/ for that amount. It normally takes the salesman and his
> manager a while to realize that I will not budge from the quoted amount, no
> matter what they do to try and wear me down.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 6:34 am
From: George
On 6/13/2010 9:19 AM, Tegger wrote:
> "D. Ohl"<dohl@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
> news:d79cdab94496ddd36432f386ca4e7aa0@tioat.net:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:02:42 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
>>
>>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>
>> What I do is go to Car Bargains (checkbook.com)
>
>
>
> Actually you go to checkbook.ORG.
>
> Checkbook.com is a "parked" domain used as an advertising site.
>
> The concept of checkbook.org is intriguing, and I'd never heard of it
> before. They're US-based, and there's no mention of Canada (where I live)
> on their site.
>
> How do they get paid for what they do?
"ORDER NOW
Avoid Hassles & Save Money
Only $200 ($175 for CHECKBOOK Subscribers)"
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> WHy would anyone spend an hour haggling with a salesman?
>
>
>
> The haggling is all done on their side, not mine.
>
> I have their quote, which pins down the price. Now all I need to do is get
> them to /sign/ for that amount. It normally takes the salesman and his
> manager a while to realize that I will not budge from the quoted amount, no
> matter what they do to try and wear me down.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 8:24 am
From: "D. Ohl"
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 13:19:28 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
> The concept of checkbook.org is intriguing, and I'd never heard of it
> before. They're US-based, and there's no mention of Canada (where I live)
> on their site.
>
> How do they get paid for what they do?
They get about 200 bucks and they don't actually have to do much.
It's a business I wish I had thought of years ago!
All they do is contact five dealers around you send you two things:
1. Five one-page legal contracts for price over dealer cost
2. A legal definition of dealer cost (itemized by available options)
This definition of dealer cost includeds all available options so, you can
basically "pick your car" off the lot or you can order your car from the
factory - and you refer to item 2 plus item 1 for the total cost.
Now, you are "supposed" to go to the lowest-price dealer ... but ... and
this is a big but ... you don't have to do that:
a. You can cheat and go to any dealer
b. You can STILL bargain if you like.
In fact, I've even given my quote to a friend who wanted a similar car, and
she used my 150-dollar quote (it was less in the olden days) to get her
similar car with her desired options for $400 over dealer cost.
Two of my friends have done this, and all found that the lowest-price
dealer was at the very limit of the legal radius that checkbook.org quoted
- but, all three of us (one was me) simply went to the CLOSEST dealer and
got our car in five minutes (as you noted, if you trade-in and need
financing, then you get back into the miserable stage of haggling where the
fleet manager sends you BACK to the miserable sales department and your
inquisition begins).
I've bought many cars the old-fashioned way, and just one this
new-fashioned way, but, I'll never go back to the old
I-have-to-check-with-my-manager torture ever again!
More in the next post because this is looooong!
Donna Ohl
== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 8:42 am
From: "D. Ohl"
There are still pitfalls in this checkbook.org method though.
Realize there are THREE departments (at least at the foreign car chain that
I bought mine from) that you deal with when you purchase a car this method.
I. There is the cunning sales department
II. There is the helpful customer satisfaction lady
III. There is the busy no-nonsense fleet manager
There are many sales people, and they work every day of the week, mostly
dealing with tire kickers, and they're like sharks when they sense a
serious buyer.
But there's generally only a single customer satisfaction lady, and she
works 9-5 M-F just like the always-on-the-phone fleet manager does.
STEP 1: Select the car you want (including options):
You leave your checkbook at home (repeat: Checkbook at home!) whenever you
talk to the sales people. Visit as many sales people as you like, drive as
many cars as you like, ask as many questions as you like, when dealing with
sales people.
STEP 2: Find where that car exists (desired color and options):
This step is not needed if you're ordering from the factory, but, in my
case, the Japanese factory was reputed to take MONTHS before the car would
be here so I was forced to choose a car off a lot. So, say (as it was in my
case), say that the closest dealer doesn't have the car you want, but some
other dealer does have the car you want, and the best price was from the
farthest dealer. You find out from the closest dealer WHERE the car is
(closest to you), and then you go to THAT dealer to get the car (at the
price of the LOWEST dealer).
STEP 3: Buy the car. This is as easy as arriving on a M-F 9-5 and just
handing the fleet manager who works in a dingy office out in back of the
dealership your contract for the lowest cost (he'll be sitting at a
scratched-up table and a dirty telephone with papers strewn all over the
place ... very UNLIKE the sales department shine and polish).
So, in summary, you have to turn their system on them:
a. Use the sales department to CHOOSE your car (and options)
b. Use the customer satisfaction department to FIND your car
c. Use the fleet manager to BUY your car
Take as long as you want with step (a). The other two steps take only a few
minutes.
Again, nothing stops you from bargaining down from your $400-over-cost
price but be prepared for an abrupt fleet manager as he doesn't want to do
anything but move cars off the lot in as little time as possible. You'll
never see him again so I'd say it's probably worth asking the question (I
didn't bargain further since I had mine $200 UNDER dealer cost ... which
happens because of the aforementioned dealer kickbacks and incentives).
Now, that brings the problem of how accurate the stated dealer cost is.
I looked in KBB and didn't see the dealer cost ... can someone show it to
me for a 2010 Honda Accord, for example?
== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 11:02 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Tegger wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Tegger wrote
>>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure
>>> you into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
>>> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>>> The manager won't sign for your price?
>>> Then your asking price is too low. End of story.
>> Its never that mindlessly black and white.
> "Mindless"?
Yep, mindless.
> Try sitting in the salesman's office for an hour while
> he and his manager play vicious mind-games with you.
Irrelevant to how mindless that last para of yours is.
> "Mindless", my ass.
You lard arse is your problem.
> It takes, and I speak from personal experience, considerable
> personal fortitude, savvy, and grit to tough-out the warfare
> wreaked upon the humble buyer in the average new-car dealership.
Not if you have enough of a clue to talk to the manager directly.
> My way is the /only/ way.
Like hell it is.
> Unless you're a many-times repeat customer for that
> salesman, or your buddies own the dealership.
Or the dealership is in a desperate financial situation or you can find one that is.
== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 11:08 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Tegger wrote:
> MAS <mas@bbbb.net> wrote in news:hv16nm$ok0$1@news.datemas.de:
>
>> On 6/12/2010 7:02 PM, Tegger wrote:
>>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>>
>>> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
>>> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>>>
>>> The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too
>>> low. End of story.
>>>
>>
>> If any car salesman says he can't authorize the deal, without going
>> to his manager, I walk.
>
>
>
> It appears to be true that the manager needs to sign-off on the deal.
> But it ends up being just one more trick they use to mess with your
> mind and break your resolve.
>
>
>
>> One time, I had a salesman tell me he had to
>> speak to his manager first. I could see his reflection, and pretty
>> much the whole room, in a mirror while he was in the back room
>> "talking with his manager." No one else was in the room - he was
>> watching TV for a bit, while we were supposed to mull over his coming
>> counter-offer.
>
>
>
> That's very typical. The enforced and lonely waiting is what breaks people,
It cant do if you tell them that you are going to walk right now and start doing that.
> especially if they've made the fatal mistake of /really
> wanting/ that car. Sometimes they ask for your credit card
> (ostensibly so they can ring up the deposit on it should you buy),
> which is another "break" trick: You're not going to walk out while
> they have your credit card. So I simply refuse to hand it over.
> The last time a salesman tried leaving me alone, I forced
> myself to relax to the point where I almost fell asleep.
You should have just made it clear that you were going to walk,
like knock on the door where you could see him watching TV
and make it clear that you knew he was watching TV.
> I figured it would probably rattle the salesman to find me asleep. I got my price, anyway.
You would have if your had just walked into the room where you knew he was watching TV.
>> When he came back out and said the deal was rejected, I left.
> You did the right thing. There are too many dealerships out there to
> waste time on one that doesn't want your business. Even if you made a
> mistake this time by offering too little, you can fix that at the
> next dealership.
> My approach is to simply get on-the-road prices. I take care of my own
> financing, and tell them there's no trade. Keep it simple. Make sure
> the salesman knows that as soon as you find the car you want at a
> price within your budget, you /are/ buying. The smell of a sale is
> catnip to salesmen, which tends to work in your favor.
And if you know what they paid for the car, you are in a much better
position to know what price they wont go below, unless they are about
to go bust if they dont get your sale, and that is a rare situation.
== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 12:05 pm
From: Jeff
"D. Ohl" <dohl@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
news:5dd5edbc298b7b92794ef64becb80ace@tioat.net:
> There are still pitfalls in this checkbook.org method though.
>
> Realize there are THREE departments (at least at the foreign car chain
> that I bought mine from) that you deal with when you purchase a car
> this method.
>
> I. There is the cunning sales department
> II. There is the helpful customer satisfaction lady
> III. There is the busy no-nonsense fleet manager
>
> There are many sales people, and they work every day of the week,
> mostly dealing with tire kickers, and they're like sharks when they
> sense a serious buyer.
>
> But there's generally only a single customer satisfaction lady, and
> she works 9-5 M-F just like the always-on-the-phone fleet manager
> does.
>
> STEP 1: Select the car you want (including options):
> You leave your checkbook at home (repeat: Checkbook at home!) whenever
> you talk to the sales people. Visit as many sales people as you like,
> drive as many cars as you like, ask as many questions as you like,
> when dealing with sales people.
>
> STEP 2: Find where that car exists (desired color and options):
> This step is not needed if you're ordering from the factory, but, in
> my case, the Japanese factory was reputed to take MONTHS before the
> car would be here so I was forced to choose a car off a lot. So, say
> (as it was in my case), say that the closest dealer doesn't have the
> car you want, but some other dealer does have the car you want, and
> the best price was from the farthest dealer. You find out from the
> closest dealer WHERE the car is (closest to you), and then you go to
> THAT dealer to get the car (at the price of the LOWEST dealer).
>
> STEP 3: Buy the car. This is as easy as arriving on a M-F 9-5 and just
> handing the fleet manager who works in a dingy office out in back of
> the dealership your contract for the lowest cost (he'll be sitting at
> a scratched-up table and a dirty telephone with papers strewn all over
> the place ... very UNLIKE the sales department shine and polish).
>
> So, in summary, you have to turn their system on them:
> a. Use the sales department to CHOOSE your car (and options)
> b. Use the customer satisfaction department to FIND your car
> c. Use the fleet manager to BUY your car
>
> Take as long as you want with step (a). The other two steps take only
> a few minutes.
>
> Again, nothing stops you from bargaining down from your $400-over-cost
> price but be prepared for an abrupt fleet manager as he doesn't want
> to do anything but move cars off the lot in as little time as
> possible. You'll never see him again so I'd say it's probably worth
> asking the question (I didn't bargain further since I had mine $200
> UNDER dealer cost ... which happens because of the aforementioned
> dealer kickbacks and incentives).
>
> Now, that brings the problem of how accurate the stated dealer cost
> is.
>
> I looked in KBB and didn't see the dealer cost ... can someone show it
> to me for a 2010 Honda Accord, for example?
In the "new car" box, select make and model and select Honda and Accord
from the lists. Enter your zip code. Click "pricing" next to the
picture of the 2010 Accord. Click on the trim level you want from the
list. You will get the list and invoice prices.
== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 12:05 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:02:42 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv>
wrote:
>
>Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
>explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>
>The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too low.
>End of story.
That about sums it up.
--Vic
== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 1:10 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Vic Smith wrote
> Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote
>> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
>> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>> The manager won't sign for your price?
>> Then your asking price is too low. End of story.
> That about sums it up.
Nope.
The other obvious possibility is that the manager has decided that you can be conned.
Doesnt mean that is true.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: business white pages
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/429a79f7a17cc9f6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 5:27 am
From: Ohioguy
Anyone know, for a really small, part time or startup business, do
you have to have a separate line or business telephone line in order to
get a listing in the business white pages?
Basically, I'm wanting a listing without having to pay very much for
it in recurring fees. I considered using something like Ooma to add a
digital line for next to nothing, but then I realized that:
A) ooma prohibits commercial use
&
B) not sure if being able to have people call you with their telephone
also guarantees a listing, especially if your "phone line" isn't
through the traditional telephone company
Is there an alternative to Ooma that is hardware based, would work
over DSL, and doesn't prohibit commercial use? I would at best probably
receive a few dozen inbound calls a month on the line.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Americanization of the World
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6f48285144a7baef?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 9:46 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
Whether you like it or not, it's all over the place: SUVs, Gated
Communities, Junk Food, Hollywood, rap, class polarization... I know
it all means that the Chinese now are willing to dump their bicycles
as soon as possible and drive, and offers little hope for those trying
to ride a bicycle here in America. People question if riding a bicycle
is a communist act.
This interesting article analyzes the phenomenon without much bias...
(I quote)
In the early 1900's, "Americanization" referred to the movement where
immigrants were developed into Americans. Now, in today's world, the
term has a different, but similar meaning - the globalization by the
U.S. of the world. The American economy is an ever-present force in
the world today. Pepsi ads now clutter the streets of every big city
in China, Big Macs are being ordered throughout the entire world, and
the term "Always Coca-Cola" is being muttered by all of Europe,
although they have no idea what the phrase means. Have we gone too far
in our economic Americanization of the world? Some will argue that we
have - using our advantage of being the world's only superpower in a
dangerous way - by interfering and forcing our culture on countries
that do not want to be "Americanized." It is my belief that
Americanization gives other countries a false sense of the American
way of life and, in the end, causes hatred for the U.S. and threats on
our power and freedom.
...
Despite this recent surge in American culture over the world, a few
countries like France and Germany are making plans to slow
Americanization. By raising taxes and tariffs on foreign companies and
investors, these countries are making it harder for American companies
to profit overseas. Also, in Israel, a cultural rebellion is taking
place. The Israeli government, in an attempt to slow down
Americanization, now requires their radio stations to devote half
their airtime to Hebrew songs (6). These are only the exceptions to
the rule of American globalization, though. Americanization is now in
full swing and sees no end in sight, particularly because many
Americans perceive it as a great achievement. Charles Krauthammer
writes in Time magazine that, "America is no mere international
citizen. It is the dominant power in the world, more dominant than any
since Rome. Accordingly, America is in a position to re-shape norms,
alter expectations and create new realities" (3). Lewis Lapham
expresses the same opinion in his "American Rome" essay. He says that
it is America's job to help out the world and "cleanse the world of
its impurities" (3). Americanization, these people believe, is the
answer - the change that the world is looking for. Of course, if the
world really does want change, who's to say that America has the
answer? What gives us the right to assume that American culture is the
way of the future? These questions should have been answered first,
before American culture took over the planet. As G. Pascal Zachary
writes, "We are all Americans now, like it or not" (6). If he is
saying this statement now, what will the world be like if America
continues this trend in ten years? How about even twenty years? How
far will American globalization go, or more importantly, will it ever
end?
https://www.msu.edu/~millettf/americanization.html
---------------------------------------------------
THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
"Everything must be questioned before we find a solution"
FINDING SOLUTIONS:
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 10:56 am
From: Forrest Hodge
On 6/13/2010 12:46 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> ecent surge in American culture over the world, a few
> countries like France and Germany are making plans to slow
> Americanization. By raising taxes and tariffs on foreign companies and
> investors, these countries are making it harder for American companies
> to profit overseas. Also, in Israel, a cultural rebellion is taking
> place. The Israeli government, in an attempt to slow down
> Americanization, now requires their radio stations to devote half
> their airtime to Hebrew songs (6). These are only the exceptions to
> the rule of American globalization, though. Americanization is now in
> full swing and sees no end in sight, particularly because many
So the other countries are taxing/legislating their people into getting
to them to do what the government deems is best, not what the people
actually want. Sounds about par for the course across the pond.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 1:14 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"
On Jun 13, 1:56 pm, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/13/2010 12:46 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > ecent surge in American culture over the world, a few
> > countries like France and Germany are making plans to slow
> > Americanization. By raising taxes and tariffs on foreign companies and
> > investors, these countries are making it harder for American companies
> > to profit overseas. Also, in Israel, a cultural rebellion is taking
> > place. The Israeli government, in an attempt to slow down
> > Americanization, now requires their radio stations to devote half
> > their airtime to Hebrew songs (6). These are only the exceptions to
> > the rule of American globalization, though. Americanization is now in
> > full swing and sees no end in sight, particularly because many
>
> So the other countries are taxing/legislating their people into getting
> to them to do what the government deems is best, not what the people
> actually want. Sounds about par for the course across the pond.
The problem is "what the people want" is careful crafted by the elites
and the media.
Do the people want SUVs or bicycles? Whatever they see in movies and
TV.
Guess...
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple hack to get $500 to your home.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/02ff456e9b2ccf95?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 10:37 am
From: get money
Simple hack to get $500 to your home
at http://mastidunia.co.cc
Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an
image. in that website on left side below search box, click on image
and enter your name and address where you want to receive your
cheque.please dont tell to anyone.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Found at a yard sale.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e3f355702e32daaa?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 11:57 am
From: VFW
The story of Jack Herer. The Emperor of Hemp. for $.50
and;
The Emperor Wears No Clothes
Author Jack Herer
Country United States
Language English
Genre(s) Social history
Publisher Ah Ha Publishing,
Quick American Archives (11th Edition)
Publication date 1985
Media type Print (Paperback)
Pages 330
ISBN 0-9524560-0-1
The Emperor Wears No Clothes is a book written by Jack Herer. Starting
in 1973, Jack Herer took the advice of his friend "Captain" Ed Adair and
began compiling tidbits of information about cannabis and its numerous
uses.[1] In 1985, after 12 years, this data was published as The Emperor
Wears No Clothes. The book is in its eleventh edition, and is often used
in cannabis rescheduling and re-legalization efforts.
The book, backed by H.E.M.P. (America), Hanf Haus (Germany), Sensi
Seeds/Hash, Marihuana & Hemp Museum, Amsterdam, (Netherlands), and
T.H.C., the Texas Hemp Campaign (America), offers $100,000 to anyone who
can disprove the claims made within. To quote the back cover:
³ If all fossil fuels and their derivatives, as well as trees for
paper and construction were banned in order to save the planet, reverse
the Greenhouse Effect and stop deforestation; then there is only one
known annually renewable natural resource that is capable of providing
the overall majority of the world's paper and textiles; meet all of the
world's transportation, industrial and home energy needs, while
simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil, and cleaning the
atmosphere all at the same time... and that substance is -- the same one
that did it all before -- Cannabis Hemp... Marijuana!
--
Money! What a concept.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 2:31 pm
From: Max
On Jun 13, 2:57 pm, VFW <george...@toast.net> wrote:
> The story of Jack Herer. The Emperor of Hemp. for $.50
> and;
>
> The Emperor Wears No Clothes
> Author Jack Herer
> Country United States
> Language English
> Genre(s) Social history
> Publisher Ah Ha Publishing,
> Quick American Archives (11th Edition)
> Publication date 1985
> Media type Print (Paperback)
> Pages 330
> ISBN 0-9524560-0-1
>
> The Emperor Wears No Clothes is a book written by Jack Herer. Starting
> in 1973, Jack Herer took the advice of his friend "Captain" Ed Adair and
> began compiling tidbits of information about cannabis and its numerous
> uses.[1] In 1985, after 12 years, this data was published as The Emperor
> Wears No Clothes. The book is in its eleventh edition, and is often used
> in cannabis rescheduling and re-legalization efforts.
>
> The book, backed by H.E.M.P. (America), Hanf Haus (Germany), Sensi
> Seeds/Hash, Marihuana & Hemp Museum, Amsterdam, (Netherlands), and
> T.H.C., the Texas Hemp Campaign (America), offers $100,000 to anyone who
> can disprove the claims made within. To quote the back cover:
>
> ³ If all fossil fuels and their derivatives, as well as trees for
> paper and construction were banned in order to save the planet, reverse
> the Greenhouse Effect and stop deforestation; then there is only one
> known annually renewable natural resource that is capable of providing
> the overall majority of the world's paper and textiles; meet all of the
> world's transportation, industrial and home energy needs, while
> simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil, and cleaning the
> atmosphere all at the same time... and that substance is -- the same one
> that did it all before -- Cannabis Hemp... Marijuana!
> --
> Money! What a concept.
Maybe they should start printing the currency on hemp to start with.
Then you could smoke up your cash directly and eliminate the middle
man.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "20 things you should never buy used"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f90c9c5ab9fd46a7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 13 2010 3:27 pm
From: aesthete8
http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/383/20-things-you-should-never-buy-used/
==============================================================================
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