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* -probably_junk- Re: -probably_junk- 2009 Prius - why such a big engine? - 16
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: -probably_junk- Re: -probably_junk- 2009 Prius - why such a big engine?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/64b8bb7586b7de99?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 1:08 pm
From: George
cr113 wrote:
> On Jun 11, 5:32 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> My buddy just bought a Smartcar (made by Daimler) which has only
>> recently been offered in the US. They have a 0.7 liter gas engine every
>> where else they are sold and were fitted with a 1.0 liter engine for the
>> US version.
>
> I read that they only get 35 mpg highway. That's the same as a Corolla
> which is like 3 times as big as a "smart" car!
EPA says the Corolla is 29 mpg combined. He is getting 51 mpg with
mostly local driving. He is honest and also anal about measuring and
recording things accurately.
== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 1:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
> cr113 wrote
>> George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> My buddy just bought a Smartcar (made by Daimler) which has only
>>> recently been offered in the US. They have a 0.7 liter gas engine
>>> every where else they are sold and were fitted with a 1.0 liter
>>> engine for the US version.
>> I read that they only get 35 mpg highway. That's the same as a Corolla which is like 3 times as big as a "smart" car!
> EPA says the Corolla is 29 mpg combined. He is getting 51 mpg with mostly local driving.
Thats apples and oranges.
> He is honest and also anal about measuring and recording things accurately.
But his numbers are not comparable to the EPA numbers.
== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 1:41 pm
From: "John Weiss"
"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote...
>
> Yes, the batteries and electric motors can provide some serious
> torque to motivate the vehicle when the batteries are charged. When the
> batteries get low though? All that extra hardware is extra weight.
> Think
> of a 1.0L engine trying to push a prius loaded with (5) ~200 pound
> adults.
The Prius is not limited in any normal operating mode to the gas engine
only.
> On a side note though, I'd be inclined to buy a 1.0L Prius hybrid, if
> they
> made such a thing.
You'll be able to buy the GM Volt next year, then.
> That is why the 1.8L engine. With all the extra hardware, 1.8L
> unassisted
> will keep up (barely) with ~85MPH freeway traffic.
The Prius currently keeps up with 85 mph freeway traffic with no problem
whatsoever.
== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 2:32 pm
From: cr113
On Jun 11, 2:50 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> "cr113" <cr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7af02de6-e50f-4190-8e4c-5c931ef37f67@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
> > get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
> > need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
> > would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
> > need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
> > the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
> > mileage. Am I missing something?
>
> http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/expos...
> -toyota-prius/
>
> You are missing the fact that it is a hybrid. That means it has batteries
> and electric motors and other (very heavy) hardware that a non-hybrid
> doesn't. Yes, the batteries and electric motors can provide some serious
> torque to motivate the vehicle when the batteries are charged. When the
> batteries get low though? All that extra hardware is extra weight. Think
> of a 1.0L engine trying to push a prius loaded with (5) ~200 pound adults.
> That's essentially what you have if the Prius has just one person (the
> driver) in it, as the batteries and electric motors, etc., easily add many
> hundreds of pounds of "curb weight" to the vehicle.
>
> You don't get something for nothing. The extra hardware might improve fuel
> economy somewhat, and definitely adds serious horsepower and torque. Too
> bad much of the extra power is needed just to haul ITSELF, though.
>
> On a side note though, I'd be inclined to buy a 1.0L Prius hybrid, if they
> made such a thing. I wouldn't expect it to do better than about 55MPH
> maximum on the highway with the (unassisted) gasoline IC engine, though.
> And that would be fine with me. But tell the typical U.S. buyer that it'll
> do 55MPH maximum? They'd laugh and walk away.
>
> That is why the 1.8L engine. With all the extra hardware, 1.8L unassisted
> will keep up (barely) with ~85MPH freeway traffic. -Dave
Curb weight of a Corolla is 2822 lbs, Prius is 2932. Only slightly
heavier.
Top speed of the Prius with the 1.5 L gas engine is around 105 mph.
Personally I'd rather they left the performance the same and lowered
the price and raised the mpg. Instead they basically raised the
performance while keeping the price and mpg the same. I just get the
feeling they are still marketing this car as a gimmick for people who
want to make a statement about being "green". Not as a true "economy"
car.
== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 3:29 pm
From: timeOday
barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, max wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <7af02de6-e50f-4190-8e4c-5c931ef37f67@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
>> cr113 <cr113@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
>>> get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
>>> need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
>>> would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
>>> need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
>>> the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
>>> mileage. Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-t
>>>
>>> oyota-prius/
>>
>> Bigger. Quicker. Better mileage. Lower Cost.
>>
>> you seem to be missing quite a bit.
>
> well, the bigger and quicker part seem to be what driving in america is
> all about lately. Like getting there 3 minutes faster is some great
> accomplishment. One myth that all the folks who think hybrids are a fad
> believe, is that they "don't have enough power" and they think there's
> no power to get onto an expressway or to pass traffic. That's a bunch
> of hooey, but if they don't see 5000 horsepower engine, they think it's
> "underpowered". they want some kinda muscle hybrid that can do 0-60 in
> 6 seconds.
Going 0-60, getting on an onramp, and passing are all short-term bursts
of power that the electric motor can help with anyways! The only reason
for a larger engine is longer-term things like, I dunno, towing a boat
up a mountain.
Personally I would love to see a pure electric commuter car without the
weight of a gas engine which is good for 60 miles between recharges.
Many families own a car that's only (or 90%) used just for commuting.
But automakers seem convinced people won't buy a car unless it has
traditional range, so maybe it's true.
== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 3:31 pm
From: timeOday
George wrote:
> max wrote:
>> In article
>> <7af02de6-e50f-4190-8e4c-5c931ef37f67@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
>> cr113 <cr113@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
>>> get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
>>> need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
>>> would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
>>> need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
>>> the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
>>> mileage. Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-t
>>>
>>> oyota-prius/
>>
>> Bigger. Quicker. Better mileage. Lower Cost.
>>
>> you seem to be missing quite a bit.
>>
> Maybe not, maybe it could even be more efficient if it were not bigger.
Probably, but the nice thing about a hybrid though is you can run the
engine just at the RPM where it's most efficient until the battery is
charged, then turn off the engine and drive on battery alone. So if a
larger engine simply charges the battery that much quicker before
turning off, it might hardly be less efficient at all.
== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 3:33 pm
From: timeOday
Rod Speed wrote:
> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>> cr113 wrote
>>> George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>
>>>> My buddy just bought a Smartcar (made by Daimler) which has only
>>>> recently been offered in the US. They have a 0.7 liter gas engine
>>>> every where else they are sold and were fitted with a 1.0 liter
>>>> engine for the US version.
>
>>> I read that they only get 35 mpg highway. That's the same as a Corolla which is like 3 times as big as a "smart" car!
>
>> EPA says the Corolla is 29 mpg combined. He is getting 51 mpg with mostly local driving.
>
> Thats apples and oranges.
>
>> He is honest and also anal about measuring and recording things accurately.
>
> But his numbers are not comparable to the EPA numbers.
>
>
I can't imagine a Corolla getting 51 mpg in the city though.
== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 3:36 pm
From: timeOday
John Weiss wrote:
> "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote...
>> Yes, the batteries and electric motors can provide some serious
>> torque to motivate the vehicle when the batteries are charged. When the
>> batteries get low though? All that extra hardware is extra weight.
>> Think
>> of a 1.0L engine trying to push a prius loaded with (5) ~200 pound
>> adults.
>
> The Prius is not limited in any normal operating mode to the gas engine
> only.
As he said, the issue is when the battery gets low, on a long uphill
perhaps.
== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 4:05 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> cr113 wrote
>>>> George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>>>> My buddy just bought a Smartcar (made by Daimler) which has only
>>>>> recently been offered in the US. They have a 0.7 liter gas engine
>>>>> every where else they are sold and were fitted with a 1.0 liter
>>>>> engine for the US version.
>>>> I read that they only get 35 mpg highway. That's the same
>>>> Corolla which is like 3 times as big as a "smart" car!
>>> EPA says the Corolla is 29 mpg combined. He is getting 51 mpg with mostly local driving.
>> Thats apples and oranges.
>>> He is honest and also anal about measuring and recording things accurately.
>> But his numbers are not comparable to the EPA numbers.
> I can't imagine a Corolla getting 51 mpg in the city though.
Neither can I.
I didnt mean that the Corolla is better than the new Prius,
just that you need more comparable figures for the maths.
== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 5:01 pm
From: Dennis
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:08:38 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>cr113 wrote:
>> On Jun 11, 5:32 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> My buddy just bought a Smartcar (made by Daimler) which has only
>>> recently been offered in the US. They have a 0.7 liter gas engine every
>>> where else they are sold and were fitted with a 1.0 liter engine for the
>>> US version.
>>
>> I read that they only get 35 mpg highway. That's the same as a Corolla
>> which is like 3 times as big as a "smart" car!
>
>EPA says the Corolla is 29 mpg combined. He is getting 51 mpg with
>mostly local driving. He is honest and also anal about measuring and
>recording things accurately.
The EPA numbers at www.fueleconomy.gov say 33 city/41 hiway/36
combined for the 2008 SmartFor2. With 22 owners reporting, the
individual numbers are 34 Low/47 Hi/38.5 Avg. So 51 city seems like a
stretch and certainly is not typical.
BTW, on straight gas (no ehtanol) I average 40 mpg on my mixed commute
with my 1998 Corolla. That is not typical either, but not quite so
radically different from the EPA numbers as your friend's experience.
Dennis (evil)
--
My output is down, my income is up, I take a short position on the long bond and
my revenue stream has its own cash flow. -George Carlin
== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 5:31 pm
From: "Dave"
> Personally I would love to see a pure electric commuter car without the
> weight of a gas engine which is good for 60 miles between recharges.
> Many families own a car that's only (or 90%) used just for commuting.
> But automakers seem convinced people won't buy a car unless it has
> traditional range, so maybe it's true.
>
Of course. Average commute time is a half hour each way. An electric
vehicle with 60 mile range would be useless. Assuming your commute is
rather short, you could just make it to work and back on 60 miles. Now you
need about 12 hours to recharge the batteries. You walk in the door after
plugging in the car, and the wife asks you if you remembered to pick up a
gallon of milk on the way home. Ooooops.
60 mile range is just not flexible enough. An all-electric vehicle needs a
MUCH longer "range" than that of a similar vehicle with an IC engine. When
you run out of energy, it takes 12 hours to get it ready to drive again.
For an all-electric rechargeable vehicle, anything LESS than about 600 miles
of range is useless. You need to have the energy available for (as a
MINIMUM) an entire DAY of driving on a full charge. 60 miles? Not even
close.
In contrast, the range of an IC engine vehicle doesn't matter much. Gas
stations are everywhere, and it takes about 10 minutes to refuel, if you are
slow. But in an electric vehicle if your batteries die halfway home? Now
you are calling a tow truck. -Dave
== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 5:53 pm
From: "Lou"
"barbie gee" <booger@nosespam.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0806102147320.20650@sghcrg.sghcrg.pbz...
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, max wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <7af02de6-e50f-4190-8e4c-5c931ef37f67@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> > cr113 <cr113@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
> >> get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
> >> need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
> >> would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
> >> need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
> >> the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
> >> mileage. Am I missing something?
> >>
> >>
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-t
> >> oyota-prius/
> >
> > Bigger. Quicker. Better mileage. Lower Cost.
> >
> > you seem to be missing quite a bit.
>
> well, the bigger and quicker part seem to be what driving in america is
> all about lately. Like getting there 3 minutes faster is some great
> accomplishment. One myth that all the folks who think hybrids are a fad
> believe, is that they "don't have enough power" and they think there's no
> power to get onto an expressway or to pass traffic. That's a bunch of
> hooey, but if they don't see 5000 horsepower engine, they think it's
> "underpowered". they want some kinda muscle hybrid that can do 0-60 in 6
> seconds.
So what? There's nothing intrinsically saintly about small - if the car
gets good mileage (and apparently it gets the best mileage around) and it
bolts forward and is roomy, I don't see how that's worse than having it
small, cramped, and sluggish.
== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 5:56 pm
From: "Lou"
"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:XtWdnXFhXZ1WzM3VnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> barbie gee wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, max wrote:
> >
> >> In article
> >> <7af02de6-e50f-4190-8e4c-5c931ef37f67@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> >> cr113 <cr113@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
> >>> get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
> >>> need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
> >>> would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
> >>> need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
> >>> the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
> >>> mileage. Am I missing something?
> >>>
> >>>
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-t
> >>>
> >>> oyota-prius/
> >>
> >> Bigger. Quicker. Better mileage. Lower Cost.
> >>
> >> you seem to be missing quite a bit.
> >
> > well, the bigger and quicker part seem to be what driving in america is
> > all about lately. Like getting there 3 minutes faster is some great
> > accomplishment. One myth that all the folks who think hybrids are a fad
> > believe, is that they "don't have enough power" and they think there's
> > no power to get onto an expressway or to pass traffic. That's a bunch
> > of hooey, but if they don't see 5000 horsepower engine, they think it's
> > "underpowered". they want some kinda muscle hybrid that can do 0-60 in
> > 6 seconds.
>
>
> Going 0-60, getting on an onramp, and passing are all short-term bursts
> of power that the electric motor can help with anyways! The only reason
> for a larger engine is longer-term things like, I dunno, towing a boat
> up a mountain.
>
> Personally I would love to see a pure electric commuter car without the
> weight of a gas engine which is good for 60 miles between recharges.
> Many families own a car that's only (or 90%) used just for commuting.
> But automakers seem convinced people won't buy a car unless it has
> traditional range, so maybe it's true.
It's true for me. A car is an expensive proposition for most folks. It
seems extremely unlikely that owning two (one for long range trips and one
that CANNOT make a long range trip) would only be more expensive. 30 miles
one-way is not a long range trip in my book.
== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 6:10 pm
From: "Lou"
"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:g2paak$rdo$2@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>
> On a side note though, I'd be inclined to buy a 1.0L Prius hybrid, if they
> made such a thing. I wouldn't expect it to do better than about 55MPH
> maximum on the highway with the (unassisted) gasoline IC engine, though.
> And that would be fine with me. But tell the typical U.S. buyer that
it'll
> do 55MPH maximum? They'd laugh and walk away.
And then, what happens when you turn on the air conditioning? Or even the
defroster fan?
On the local interstate, I routinely (but not quite always) set the cruise
control at 55 (that was the posted speed limit for years, done as a fuel
saving measure, and you know, it still works) and stay in the right lane.
But there are times when somebody abruptly changes lanes, or at entrance
ramps, when a little extra jolt of speed is needed.
I'd say that well over 99% of my driving time is at 55 mph or less, but no
way I'd buy a car that had a max speed of 55 without some huge compensating
factor in return, on the order of triple digit mileage per gallon. And
maybe not even then - the only feasible commuting routes for my wife and me
involve interstate type roads. I know, local roads exist, but with
intersections, stop signs, traffic lights, and unlimited access from
driveways, parking lots, etc. you're lucky to average 25 mph
> That is why the 1.8L engine. With all the extra hardware, 1.8L unassisted
> will keep up (barely) with ~85MPH freeway traffic. -Dave
>
>
== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 6:16 pm
From: "Lou"
"cr113" <cr113@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d5bb1fe-dcc7-4b4f-935b-2a7249084957@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 11, 2:50 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> Curb weight of a Corolla is 2822 lbs, Prius is 2932. Only slightly
> heavier.
>
> Top speed of the Prius with the 1.5 L gas engine is around 105 mph.
>
> Personally I'd rather they left the performance the same and lowered
> the price and raised the mpg. Instead they basically raised the
> performance while keeping the price and mpg the same. I just get the
> feeling they are still marketing this car as a gimmick for people who
> want to make a statement about being "green". Not as a true "economy"
> car.
If they've kept the price "the same" it seems to me that they've done all
three - after all with inflation the 20k-25k (or whatever a Prius costs) is
worth less this year than it was last year, and next year it'll be worth
less yet.
== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 6:40 pm
From: "Lou"
"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:AaCdne3YGqQkNNLVnZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@comcast.com...
> cr113 wrote:
> > From what I've read the new Prius is going to be bigger and faster and
> > get slightly better fuel mileage. I don't understand this. Why do they
> > need a 1.8 L engine? That's bigger than most gas only economy cars. I
> > would think they could use a 1 L engine or even smaller. Do you really
> > need to go 115 mph in a Prius? If they used a smaller engine and kept
> > the car the same size they could sell it for less and get much better
> > mileage. Am I missing something?
> >
> >
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/563/exposed-2009-toyota-prius/
>
> Since it takes a while to design and implement designs that choice was
> likely made before recent high fuel prices. Consider that megaclueless
> GM was still pushing big, piggy, fuel sucking fluffed up trucks to be
> used as "cars" until last week.
>
> My buddy just bought a Smartcar (made by Daimler) which has only
> recently been offered in the US. They have a 0.7 liter gas engine every
> where else they are sold and were fitted with a 1.0 liter engine for the
> US version.
>
> The dealer said they also have a even much more fuel efficient diesel
> version but were concerned about bringing that version in because it
> would be perceived as underpowered.
Maybe "they" did the right thing, even if for the wrong reasons. Around
here, diesel costs even more than gasoline. At the local station, regular
was selling for $4.039/gallon while diesel was $4.739/gallon. That's a
price difference of better than 17%. At a couple of other nearby stations
the price difference is even greater. I don't know what kind of mileage a
diesel car gets, but last week I got 33.9 miles per gallon out of my regular
gas burning car in mixed city/highway driving. To make the price
differential worthwhile, I'd have to get close to 40 mpg to break even.
According to www.fueleconomy.gov, diesel cars "typically" get 30%-35% more
mile per gallon, but the mileage ratings for the Mercedes E-320 Bluetec (the
closest comparable diesel car, size-wise, I see to mine) top out at 32 mpg
highway. I guess it depends on what kind of mileage the diesel smart gets
compared to the gas smart.
I've read somewhere that the Smart car, so far, has been a money losing
business for the manufacturer. If the car is going to succeed, it needs to
turn a profit.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: MP3: Daryl Bradford Smith and Muhammad Rafeeq latest on the global
financial crisis
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f8c0455d5cccd69?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 2:27 pm
From: St Georges Day April 23rd
Thursday 5 June
Muhammad Rafeeq
The financial mess continues to deepen.
Part 1 (8,3 MB)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/TFC.2008.06.05.Thu.Rafeeq.1of2.mp3
Part 2 (6,3 MB)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/TFC.2008.06.05.Thu.Rafeeq.2of2.mp3
The French Connection
The ground shaking radio show that will snap your neck in odd
directions if you listen for a while
http://www.iamthewitness.com
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 4:01 pm
From: "Ed"
What is this crap?
"St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote in
message
news:6ec27699-37aa-4023-919c-8acc60866da6@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Thursday 5 June
>
> Muhammad Rafeeq
>
> The financial mess continues to deepen.
>
> Part 1 (8,3 MB)
> http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/TFC.2008.06.05.Thu.Rafeeq.1of2.mp3
>
> Part 2 (6,3 MB)
> http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/TFC.2008.06.05.Thu.Rafeeq.2of2.mp3
>
> The French Connection
> The ground shaking radio show that will snap your neck in odd
> directions if you listen for a while
> http://www.iamthewitness.com
==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV Converter box major snafu in the US
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5479512ec399c625?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 2:36 pm
From: Jim Prescott
In article <srhi-7B55FE.06432511062008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>My 78 year old technophobe dad had no problem finding a digital TV
>converter box for my parents' 20 year old TV, but try as he might, he
>couldn't get the stations he likes. He likes to watch a station out of
>Lehigh Valley, I think, which hasn't gone digital. As I understand it,
>local low power stations are not not mandated to go digital.
You can find out what stations are available at any address, both now
and after 2/17/2009, at www.tvfool.com.
While some LP stations can't
afford the cutover at all, many just can't afford to broadcast both
analog and digital prior to conversion; they will just do a flash
cutover to digital at some point.
If you care about LP stations then you definitely need one of the
converter boxes that provides RF pass-through (or be willing to get a
splitter and do it yourself) so that you can easily manage having both
analog and digital stations.
>My dad returned the box to Wal-Mart where he bought it. He decided he'll
>just wait until a few weeks prior to the conversion in 2009 and replace
>his old TV with a digital model and buy a high definition antenna so he
>can take advantage of HD TV. Unfortunately, I doubt that will help him
>receive the channels he likes.
A digital TV that can receive both analog and digital channels would be
easier to use than a converter box but probably won't pull in any more
digital channels. TVs differ in how well they handle digital and RF on the
same input so you want to make sure what you get works the way you want.
Also note that an HD antenna is no more or less capable of receiving HD
than a regular antenna. If his current antenna provides a good picture
then it should bring in HD just fine. A new antenna might be worthwhile if
the old is weathered or corroded, and a new one might be smaller if tvfool
tells you you don't need channels 2-6 (or smaller still if you don't need
2-13) but if the old one is working fine you don't need a new HD one.
--
Jim Prescott - Computing and Networking Group jgp@seas.rochester.edu
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, University of Rochester, NY
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 4:00 pm
From: Seerialmom
On Jun 11, 3:43 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article
> <3fffcb24-ebcb-45c9-9d2f-117ef9690...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I haven't applied for or technically need one of those converter box
> > coupons before the digital switch over, however those who have applied
> > for an received them are apparently finding they either can't locate a
> > box to buy or the coupons are expiring before they can buy. And of
> > course our lovely government with the brightest red tape available,
> > has rules in place saying they can't reapply for the coupons. What I
> > don't understand was why the 90 day expiration when the switchover
> > doesn't happen until February 2009? Anyway...interesting MSNBC
> > article about this snafu:
>
> Its worse. This TV conversion is illegal as far as I am concerned, small
> local TV stations that can't afford the cost to go digital are left out.
> I am all for going to digital TV, but the way the government is doing it
> is insane.
>
> My 78 year old technophobe dad had no problem finding a digital TV
> converter box for my parents' 20 year old TV, but try as he might, he
> couldn't get the stations he likes. He likes to watch a station out of
> Lehigh Valley, I think, which hasn't gone digital. As I understand it,
> local low power stations are not not mandated to go digital.
>
> My dad returned the box to Wal-Mart where he bought it. He decided he'll
> just wait until a few weeks prior to the conversion in 2009 and replace
> his old TV with a digital model and buy a high definition antenna so he
> can take advantage of HD TV. Unfortunately, I doubt that will help him
> receive the channels he likes. Local channels and their viewers will be
> screwed when this TV conversion takes place, which is a flagrant
> violation of the First Amendment. On the up side, most of those
> conservative wing nut religious channels fall into this category, so its
> hard for me to shed much tears for them.
That'll definitely help the economy...however I don't think he'll
improve the ability to see the station he likes, especially if it no
longer broadcasts due to the loss of the analog signal?
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 7:10 pm
From: Derald
Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Of course it doesn't help that many broadcasters are transmitting less
>than full power digital signals until the switch over next Feb.
Well, I have begun to suspect the same to be true of analog
signals, based on my experience, although I don't know to what end. Of
course, there's the possibility that the analog transmission systems are
not receiving top-shelf maintenance nowadays, too. We're in flatlands
about 50 miles from the antenna farm that hosts most of the region's
b'cast sites. Alternatively, Orlando stations are viewable most times. A
mighty lot of "development" has occurred between them and me over the
past many years but the deterioration in signal quality was precipitous
about a year a go, followed by a slight improvement.
At this point, I intend to wait it out, try a better-best quality
converter when the time comes and hope it works. Next move would most
likely be taller more serious antenna mast. Cable and satellite service
are ubiquitous in these parts; not many aerial dinosaurs left.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: frugal towels?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7e4690da26b3e36b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 3:08 pm
From: pc
val189 wrote:
> On Jun 2, 5:33 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dark colors require less frequent washing. Come on, just how filthy do
>> bath towels ever get?
>
> So, how many times DO you use a bath towel?
>
>
> Reminds me of something once heard in a dressing room:"I only buy
> black underwear cuz ya don't hafta wash it." EEEWWWWW....
I have a white, heavy duty, terry cloth robe. It's all I use for a
towel after showering. I'm a drip dryer. I put it on and take it off a
few minutes later, when I'm ready to get dressed.
I wash it maybe twice a month.
For face and hands and other towelling needs I rely on my 50? count pack
of white terry towels bought from the auto department of BJs. They are
great. I use them in the bath and as kitchen towels and as they degrade
they get relegated to the garage for other uses. These get washed weekly.
DH is a regular towel guy. His towels end up in the laundry more often
than my robe. But, he's not just a drip dryer.
..PC
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just Canceled Cable TV
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6cd6ada4aaa4d5bc?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 3:40 pm
From: timeOday
The Real Bev wrote:
> Bob F wrote:
>
>> "The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mark Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...The government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why I should
>>>> fork over $27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all day.
>>>
>>> Walmart has them for $50. That's a just-in-case price.
>>>
>>>> By giving out these coupons the government basically allowed the
>>>> converter box companies to jack their prices up another $40.
>>>
>>> Maybe not that much; I can't imagine buying anything like that for
>>> only $10. Hard to even find cables for $10 (assuming you use only the
>>> ordinary sources :-) ).
>>>
>>>> Another corporate welfare program but I digress. I'm seriously
>>>> debating just chucking the boob tube and the VCR, which hasn't been
>>>> touched in a decade, onto freecycle and be done with it.
>>>
>>> DVD recorders are way handier than VCRs.
>>>
>>>> That said, Netflix is great and I watch all the DVDs on my computer
>>>> monitor, a 22" LCD screen.
>>>
>>> The problem with that is dark movies are pretty much unwatchable. I
>>> also like to curl up on the couch, and that doesn't work very well.
>>
>> You can adjust the brightness, contrast, etc in your computer video
>> boards "video" settings - at least I do. Mine has a seperate
>> adjustment for video content.
>
> Linux. Nvidia. The monitor has a brightness control, but that's it.
>
On mplayer, the 3 and 4 keys adjust brightness.
I'm pretty sure settings like that can also be put into a config file so
they come up how you like them by default.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Keyword Elite Software
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd74decc587f5d8d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 4:44 pm
From: RABBIT
New Keyword Elite Software
By now I'm sure you've heard lots about BradCallen's new keyword
research and keywordgeneration tool, Keyword Elite.But if not, I
wanted to tell you brieflyabout some of the new features that
Brad'sadded to the latest update to Keyword Elite.As if the software
wasn't already extremelypowerful, Brad just keeps adding more
requestedfeatures to it. Anyway, here is a brief list ofwhat the
software can do for you:- Easily generate keyword lists of over
10,000keywords in a few short minutes- Allows you to find extremely
profitable, highpaying Adsense keywords- Analyzes your PPC competition
to find exactlywhich keywords are making them the most money,as well
as which ones are losing them money- Get a quick glance at how
competitive a marketis in terms of organic search engine listings,as
well as PPC listings- Plus way more than I can list here...Brad's got
several demo videos at the website toshow you exactly what the softare
can do for you,so I highly suggest that you take a few minutesfrom
whatever you're doing right now, and gowatch the videos.I personally
guarantee you've NEVER seen anythingquite like this software.
http://www.linkbrander.com/go/64173
==============================================================================
TOPIC: BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3920b09d15ab40dd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 11 2008 7:20 pm
From: KANMANI
------------------------------------------------------
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http://bankruptcyattorney1.blogspot.com
http://personalbankruptcy1.blogspot.com
http://chapter13bankruptcy1.blogspot.com
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http://chapter7bankruptcy1.blogspot.com
==============================================================================
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