Frugal Living: Jun 19, 2008

Thursday, June 19, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Sleazy Wall Steet/Chamber of Commerce bloats tout offshore drilling.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/965646d3be1e6878?hl=en
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== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 3:24 pm
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
> On Jun 19, 1:00 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> there are literally 1000's of stripper wells that were capped in
> america in the late 1970's because it was cheaper to import the oil,
> and they are all over america, and they remain capped.

Didn't like the EIA analysis fool?

Right back at ya!

No matter - read the FACTS and welcome to REALITY, you stuttering moron!

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/analysispaper/congr/

The Energy Information Administration (EIA) collects1 and reports2 total
U.S. crude oil and natural gas reserves. Moreover, the Form EIA-23
survey requires participants to report nonproducing reserves, which can
be used to infer producing reserves, by subtracting nonproducing
reserves from total reserves.

Crude Oil Reserve Trends

nonproducing crude oil reserves grew steadily from 1985 through 2004
rather than growing within a relatively limited time frame like natural
gas. Total nonproducing crude oil reserves grew from 2.6 billion
barrels at year-end 1985 to 5.6 billion barrels at year-end 2004. At
year-end 1985, U.S. nonproducing crude oil reserves were 10 percent of
total crude oil reserves; by year-end 2004, they were 26 percent of
total crude oil reserves.

Offshore Crude Oil Reserves

The Offshore Gulf of Mexico is the only region to post an increase in
total crude oil reserves, although much of this increase was due to the
growth in nonproducing crude oil reserves. Offshore Gulf of Mexico
nonproducing crude oil reserves grew from 0.8 billion barrels at
year-end 1985 to 2.9 billion barrels at year-end 2004. The Offshore
Gulf of Mexico's increase in nonproducing reserves largely offset the
growth in this region's total crude oil reserves so that Offshore Gulf
of Mexico producing crude oil reserves increased only slightly from 1.5
billion barrels at year-end 1985 to 1.7 billion barrels at year-end 2004.

A more detailed examination of Offshore Gulf of Mexico nonproducing
crude oil reserves indicates that this region's increase in nonproducing
crude oil reserves is largely a Louisiana-Federal Offshore phenomenon
(Figure 5).9 At year-end 2004, the Louisiana-Federal Offshore region
accounted for 2.7 billion barrels of out of the 5.6 billion barrels of
U.S. nonproducing crude oil reserves, which was 48 percent of the U.S.
nonproducing crude oil reserves.

Onshore Crude Oil Reserves

Nonproducing crude oil reserves increased in most onshore regions. The
largest increase in onshore nonproducing crude oil reserves occurred in
the Southwest, which increased by 580 million barrels, going from 140
million barrels at year-end 1985 to 720 million barrels at year-end
2004. The Southwest region is also notable for posting the largest
volumetric drop in onshore producing crude oil reserves, which declined
from 5.7 billion barrels at year-end 1985 to 3.7 billion barrels at
year-end 2004. The Rocky Mountain region posted the next largest
increase in onshore lower 48 nonproducing crude oil reserves, by
increasing 300 million barrels from year-end 1985 through year-end 2004.

Potential Causes for the Growth in Nonproducing Crude Oil and Natural
Gas Reserves

Onshore, the growth in nonproducing crude oil and natural gas reserves
could reflect the development constraints caused by environmental
regulations and litigation. Some of this litigation is by parties
wishing to stop drilling and production on State and Federal lands. Some
of this litigation is by surface owners who do not own the crude oil and
natural gas mineral rights, and therefore have no direct financial
incentive to permit crude oil and natural gas drilling and
infrastructure on their land. Instead, the surface owners have a
financial incentive to litigate the drilling and production of crude oil
and natural gas in order to extract as large a rent concession from the
mineral producer as possible.

Offshore, the growth in nonproducing crude oil and natural gas reserves
could reflect an increase in the time required to bring an offshore
project into production, as the crude oil and natural gas industry
progresses from the shallow-water Gulf of Mexico into the deep-water
Gulf. The dramatic rise in Louisiana-Federal Offshore nonproducing
crude oil reserves is consistent with this hypothesis; because most of
the Gulf's deep-water crude oil and natural gas development is occurring
in this region.

Another potential cause for the growing proportion of nonproducing crude
oil and natural gas reserves could be that the crude oil and natural gas
industry might have increasingly relied on improvements in the
collection, processing, and interpretation of seismic data to delineate
the dimensions of newly discovered fields as a substitute for drilling
field delineation wells.10 If new crude oil and natural gas reserves
were increasingly being determined by seismic data rather than by the
existence of producing wells, then this would increase the proportion of
nonproducing crude oil and natural gas reserves relative to total
reserves. There is, however, no direct evidence to confirm whether this
is the case.

Conclusions

The Form EIA-23 survey's collection of nonproducing reserves data
permits an evaluation of those crude oil and natural gas reserves which
are available to the crude oil and natural gas markets, and those crude
oil and natural gas reserves which are not available to the markets, but
which are expected to be available sometime in the future. In this
context, the EIA producing and nonproducing reserve concepts are similar
to, but not equivalent to the SEC definitions of proved developed
reserves and proved undeveloped reserves.

The growth in nonproducing reserves is a phenomenon common to both crude
oil and natural gas from year-end 1985 through year-end 2004 and is
apparent in all the major domestic crude oil and natural gas basins.
There are, however, some significant differences in this phenomenon as
it pertains to crude oil and natural gas.

The increase in nonproducing natural gas reserves occurred over a
relatively short 7 year period (i.e., from year-end 1997 through
year-end 2004), and accounted for 80 percent of the new incremental
growth in total natural gas reserves during this period. In contrast,
the growth in nonproducing crude oil reserves has occurred at a
relatively consistent pace over the 1985 through 2004 period.
The rise in nonproducing crude oil reserves is largely a
Louisiana-Federal Offshore region phenomenon, while the growth in
nonproducing natural gas reserves is largely an onshore lower 48 phenomenon.
The growing proportion of nonproducing crude oil reserves relative to
total crude oil reserves has accelerated the decline in producing crude
oil reserves, whereas the growth in nonproducing natural gas reserves
has served more to limit the growth in producing natural gas reserves.

> there is no way that they can make up for the shortfall, and i never
> said they would. what i said is that they should exploit what they
> have first,

They already are:

http://www.rigzone.com/store/product.asp?p_id=408

Primer of Oilwell Service, Workover, and Completion
Author: Kate Van Dyke
Format: Paperback
Pages: 172
ISBN: 0-88698-175-1
Publisher: PETEX
Year Published: 1996
Item Number: 100-408

Availability: In Stock $52.00

From the Book:
Conclusion
The tens of thousands of well producing all over the world cannot begin
to produce or continue to do so efficiently without the efforts of
completion, well servicing, and workover personnel. Using sophisticated
techniques and equipment, these people start and keep oil and gas
flowing, from tiny 10-barrel-a-day "stripper wells" to giant gas wells
producing millions of cubic feet (cubic metres) of gas each day.

Whether using a simple truck-mounted swabbing unit or a complicated
jackup offshore unit, well service and workover companies the world over
keep one our most vital resources - petroleum - available to us when and
where we need it.

> before coming to the government hat in hand. of course you
> knew this, you are a paid oil company shill.

LOL!

Oh I do wish I had that gig, but sorry, fool, you guessed wrong again!

> then there are the whole fields that are capped like gull island. so,
> i do not need to call you names, except shill.

Oh, a conspiracy buff eh?

Ya, this is real credible stuff:

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=48672

Alaska's Gull Island Oil Fields Could Power U.S. for 200 Years

By Mark Anderson

"Crude oil is the real 'currency' of the world," said Lindsey Williams
at a gathering of the Midwest Concerned Citizens group in Kansas City on
July 22. But Americans will never hear about huge oil and gas reserves
in the United States, which, if ever tapped, would bring today's fuel
prices at least as low as $1.50 per gallon and make America more energy
independent.

As a Baptist missionary in the 1970s, Williams said he rubbed elbows
with members of the world's power elite--who boasted of detailed 30-year
and 50-year plans to control the flow of oil and information.

A huge quantity of crude oil and natural gas exists under Gull Island,
located in the waters of Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, says Williams. He cited
key British Petroleum memoranda and related the statements of upper
echelon oil officials who told him that Gull Island would be kept under
wraps, limiting domestic supplies so Americans would someday see prices
hit up to $10 a gallon at the pump.

"Every issue in the world today relates to crude oil," said Williams.
The U.S. occupation of Iraq and the saber rattling about attacking Iran
fit into the crude oil matrix.

...

The big event in that three-year period was in 1977 when an Atlantic
Richfield oil executive told him, "We have just drilled into the largest
pool of oil in North America--[and] in the world!"

That pool was Gull Island. It was said that there was enough natural gas
to supply America for 200 years. But to this day, "not one drop" of that
oil has been released to American refineries, Williams said.

Williams said the executive had warned him that the Gull Island find was
highly classified. Do not repeat any of this, he was told. Obviously,
that warning did not stop him.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...sland_oil.html

You're being lied to and manipulated:

View THIS:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67011147&hl=en

These are the FACTS!

Lindsey Williams talks about his first hand knowledge of Alaskan oil
reserves larger than any on earth. Gas less than $1.50 a gallon! Imagine
that!

Here's another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC61X78-OI0 (A few years later, it's
still true. Truth doesn't change!)

So who is this Lindsey Williams ?

Lindsey Williams, who has been an ordained Baptist minister for 28
years, went to Alaska in 1971 as a missionary. The Transalaska oil
pipeline began its construction phase in 1974, and because of Mr.
Williams' love for his country and concern for the spiritual welfare of
the "pipeliners," he volunteered to serve as Chaplain on the pipeline,
with the subsequent full support of the Alyeska Pipeline Company.

Because of the executive status accorded to him as Chaplain, he was
given access to the information that is documented in this book.

After numerous public speaking engagements in the western states,
certain government officials and concerned individuals urged Mr.
Williams to put into print what he saw and heard, stating that they felt
this information was vital to national security. Mr. Williams firmly
believes that whoever controls energy controls the economy. Thus, The
Energy Non-Crisis.

Because of the outstanding public response that has been generated by
this book, Lindsey Williams is in great demand for speaking engagements,
radio, and TV shows.

More here:

http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis.html

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 3:29 pm
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
> On Jun 19, 1:01 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>> On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>>>> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
>>>>>> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>>>>>>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>>>>>>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>>>>>>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
>>>>>>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>>>>>>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
>>>>>>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
>>>>>>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
>>>>>>>> feet of natural gas."
>>>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>>>>>>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
>>>>>>> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
>>>>>> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
>>>>>> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
>>>>>> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
>>>>>> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
>>>>>> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
>>>>>> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
>>>>>> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
>>>>>> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
>>>>>> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
>>>>>> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
>>>>>> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
>>>>>> territory to domestic production.
>>>>>> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
>>>>>> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
>>>>>> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
>>>>>> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
>>>>>> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
>>>>>> are."
>>>>>> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
>>>>>> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
>>>>>> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
>>>>>> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
>>>>>> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
>>>>> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
>>>> http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
>>>> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
>>>> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
>>>> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
>>>> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
>>>> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
>>>> to the United States.
>>>> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
>>>> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
>>>> States.
>>>> SLANT DRILLING
>>>> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
>>>> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
>>>> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
>>>> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
>>>> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
>>>> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
>>>> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
>>>> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
>>>> massive port facility and airfield.
>>>> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
>>>> Castro.
>>>> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
>>>> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
>>>> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
>>>> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
>>> now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,
>> No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.
>>
>> You stupid piece of shit.
>
> http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156914
>
> Lifetime achievement
>
> This year's Lifetime Achievement Dud goes to part-time senator/full-
> time special interest shill Larry Craig,

That's it?

You took the bait hook line and sinker!

You moron.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:06 pm
From: Video61@tcq.net

On Jun 19, 5:24 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 1:00 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> > there are literally 1000's of stripper wells that were capped in
> > america in the late 1970's because it was cheaper to import the oil,
> > and they are all over america, and they remain capped.
>
> Didn't like the EIA analysis fool?
>
> Right back at ya!

perhaps something coming out of the bush administration is suspect at
best, outright lies for sure. right back at you,
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080612/pl_nm/usa_congress_energy_dc

House Republicans vow push on oil drilling
By Donna Smith
Thu Jun 12, 3:58 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congressional Republicans vowed on Thursday to
make a major push for more U.S. oil and gas drilling and in the
process force Democrats to cast difficult votes at a time of
skyrocketing gasoline prices.
With the November congressional and presidential elections looming,
Republicans and Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives are
blaming each other for rising energy costs and gasoline prices that
are topping $4 a gallon.
Republicans cited Democratic opposition to opening up the Arctic
National Wildlife Refuge and more offshore areas to oil and gas
exploration and drilling.
House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio said Republicans would try
to raise public awareness and force more votes on the issue. He said
Republicans would back a comprehensive approach of more oil and gas
drilling as well as energy conservation and moves toward alternative
fuels supported by Democrats.
"Over the next five months, House Republicans will fight every single
day to hold Democrats accountable for their dismal record on producing
more energy in our country," Boehner told reporters.
Many democrats oppose opening ANWR and more offshore sites to oil and
gas drilling and support conservation and developing more alternative
energy sources to reduce U.S. dependence on foreign oil. But
Republicans believe rising gasoline prices will build public support
for expanding U.S. oil and gas development.
"We cannot drill our way out of this," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of
California countered. Opening the wildlife refuge in Alaska would
reduce U.S. gasoline prices by one penny per gallon, she said. She and
other Democrats blame President George W. Bush's energy policies for
the gasoline price spike.
"A barrel of oil now costs four times more than it did when President
Bush took office," Pelosi said. "Two oil men in the White House, cost
of oil four times higher. Price at the pump: $4 a gallon."
She said oil companies already lease about 68 million acres of land
that is not being drilled. She questioned why oil companies were
pushing to open up the ANWR in Alaska when so many acres they
currently hold are not being developed.
On that point, a group of Democratic lawmakers introduced legislation
that would compel oil companies to drill in lands they are now leasing
from the federal government.
"Oil corporations are trying to take control of as much land now
during the oil-friendly Bush administration years, but are holding off
on drilling until the price of oil soars to $200 or $300 a barrel so
they can make even greater profits," said Rep. Maurice Hinchey, a New
York Democrat and a sponsor of the drilling bill.
The bill would force oil companies to pay fees for leased lands that
go unused. The fees would increase over time. Republicans argue
current law already requires oil companies to "use or lose" the lands
they lease.
(Reporting by Donna Smith; Editing by David Alexander and Christian
Wiessner)

http://www.watchblog.com/thirdparty/archives/006040.html

They want it all. The very heart and soul of the oil industry is an
unfettered and unlimited access to all suspected deposits of oil
reserves, they sit on proven reserves till the price goes up, then
they dribble it out, It is therefore, crucial to the oil corporations
to secure leases on all potential oil reserves

June 18, 2008
Oil & Gasoline: The Politics

There is a factual story to be told about the multi-million dollar war
being waged between the Oil and Gas and Republican team on the one
side, and the Democrats, consumer, and environmental groups on the
other. The factual story however, leaves much room for guesswork as to
why the facts are as they are. Let's examine this story as logically
as possible.
Folks don't want oil derricks in on their front lawns, town squares,
or Central Park. Hence, laws were passed ages ago regulating where
mining and drilling operations may take place, to protect towns,
farmlands, and even waterways, all necessary to American life.
The cost to the oil industry to buy up private properties where oil
might sit, is a very expensive proposition. Oil companies seek oil
deposits in the least expensive places possible to drill. Those places
happen to be on Federal lands, bought and paid for by taxpayers,
otherwise called the Public, and offshore.
Therefore, the Oil based corporations seek control of the reins of
government power to avail themselves and shareholders of the least
cost and maximum profit potential as possible, both now and into the
distant future. These oil corporations are spending millions on TV
advertising promoting an image of responsible management of America's
energy needs, as environmentally friendly investors in the future, and
in lobbying efforts seeking the authority to drill wherever and
whenever it will be most profitable.
The Republicans are tied to these oil corporation efforts by campaign
contributions, and more importantly, by their supporter's major
investments in oil stocks and corporations. Democrats are being
lobbied by the oil corporations as well, but view themselves as the
champions of the environment and alternative non-polluting energy
sources, which a majority of Americans also sanction. And here lies
the field of battle between the Democrats, Environmentalists, and
Coastal local governments on the one side, and Republicans, oil
corporations and their shareholders on the other.
10's of billions in tax payer dollars are the prize being fought for
on the U.S. Congress floor. Democrats want to subsidize alternative
energy source innovation and production and foster independence from
foreign oil which will require a long term commitment to that goal.
Republicans want the oil companies to have nearly unrestricted access
to oil deposits anywhere and anytime they discover them even though,
this would reduce dependence upon imported oil very little as our
domestic demand will increase as domestic supplies are increased.
However, more native oil supplies would mean more profits for American
oil corporations into the future.
It is a fact that the U.S. government has issued vast leases for oil
drilling on land and offshore which the oil corporations have sat on
without drilling them. There are 1 million square acres of Gulf Of
Mexico oil leases purchased by oil corporations which remain untapped.
Which begs the question, why are oil corporations fighting for oil
rights on the East and West Coast continental shelves and the Arctic
National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) when they have leases for vast areas
of federal lands and offshore sites which they have not begun to
drill?
It is a question no one in government or the media seems to want to
ask, nor are capable of answering with certainty and evidence. Which
leaves the answer open to speculation. But, there is an obvious
answer. This little known fact of sitting on, and not drilling,
available oil field leases has the effect of lowering oil supply of
domestic oil. Which in turn creates both higher profits on current oil
tapped as well as, and this is important, the illusion that there is
an emergency situation regarding shortage of oil the Republicans and
oil corporations can use to argue their need to get leases for areas
previously denied them.
They want it all. The very heart and soul of the oil industry is an
unfettered and unlimited access to all suspected deposits of oil
reserves. If alternative sources of energy are found to replace oil,
the oil corporations are out of the oil business, which has been an
extremely profitable business to be in. It is therefore, crucial to
the oil corporations to secure leases on all potential oil reserves
BEFORE such alternative energy sources are developed. Once alternative
energy sources and technologies are developed and marketed to the
point of being cost competitive with oil based energy, the oil
industry will immediately become less profitable as it competes with
alternatives for a lower price.
The oil industry with record profits today, can afford to fight this
battle on the airwaves and in the Congress to secure access to all of
America's oil reserves. Once alternatives to oil energy are
marketable, their profits will reduce, and the costs of fighting these
battles with environmentalists and Democrats will become less
affordable. Therefore, it is in their interest to promote the false
image of oil shortages and emergency need to secure access to all oil
reserves everywhere, despite the fact that millions of acres untapped
leases to drill are already available to the oil corporations.
This "crisis" is their means of swaying both the public and the
Congress to grant rights to drill on the East and West Coasts and
ANWR, while they can afford to wage that public perception war. There
are many issues being fought over, federalism and state's rights to
preserve the aesthetics and tourism industries for their coast lines,
for example, and taxation of oil corporations while they are reaping
historical records in profits. But, the core and central issue is
whether oil will remain the mainstay of energy and product development
for the rest of this century, or not.
In other words, this is a battle between the oil industry of the 20th
century, and alternative energy industries present and future of the
21st century. This is a transition point in history. There is every
indication that if sufficient investments are made today in
alternative energies and non-oil based technologies, that America
could become extremely oil independent, not just independent of
foreign oil imports, over the next 25 years. That would spell an
unprecedented decline in the oil industry and severe contraction in
their profitability margins throughout the rest of this century and
beyond.
The oil industry and Republicans view the Democrat's proposal to
increase taxes on oil corporations and invest those revenues in the
demise of the oil industry by fostering research and development of
alternative energies and technologies as unconscionable. The
Democrat's and Environmentalist's view as unconscionable the Oil
industry's sitting on thousands of untapped oil drilling leases, all
the while crying oil shortage.
You will hear Republicans say drilling in ANWR will reduce our oil
dependence. This will be true, 10 years from now, and perhaps for no
more than a couple years. You will hear Democrats say taxing oil
corporations and funding energy alternatives with those taxes will
reduce our dependence on foreign oil. This may be true in from 5 to 20
years from now, depending on how quickly alternatives can be perfected
and marketed. The bottom line is, higher oil prices are hear to stay
until competitive alternatives are put in place. Oil may drop as low
as $80 to $100 per barrel in the future for a short period. That drop
however, will only be part of a 2 steps higher one step lower trend in
oil prices, until there is an available competitively priced
alternative energy source for oil.
Gasoline is a matter of refinery capacity. There is no oil shortage in
the world. We know this because not a single oil tanker anywhere in
the world has pulled up to a port to fill up and been turned away
empty or less than full. In America, there is an oil refinery capacity
problem which creates seasonal and regional gasoline shortages. As
these shortages occur more frequently, the price of gasoline spikes
higher. And because they are occurring more frequently, the price dips
don't dip as low as the previous one. This creates a trend of ever
higher gasoline prices overall.
There is also the speculative pressure on gasoline prices. If the
Democrats and environmentalists and alternative energy technology
start-ups win their battle against the oil industry and Republicans,
there will be no need for newer oil refineries. This makes the
investment in new oil refineries a very risky one, until the outcome
of the war over oil is determined.
It is crucial for the future of America that voters and the public
bear this discussion in mind going forward. It is after all, their,
and our children's future and pocketbooks which are hanging in the
balance. It is the environmental quality of our nation and earth also
hanging in the balance.
Some excellent article sources for the political battles being waged
over this issue are:
Billions could be lost in Gulf oil leases.
Happy Earth Day, How About An Oil Lease?
Democrats take jab at holders of unused oil leases.
Posted by David R. Remer at June 18, 2008 04:51 PM

we know they are sitting on untapped oil, shill.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:08 pm
From: Video61@tcq.net

On Jun 19, 5:29 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 1:01 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> >> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> >>> On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> >>>> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
> >>>>>> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
> >>>>>>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
> >>>>>>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
> >>>>>>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
> >>>>>>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
> >>>>>>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
> >>>>>>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
> >>>>>>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
> >>>>>>>> feet of natural gas."
> >>>>>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
> >>>>>>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
> >>>>>>>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
> >>>>>> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
> >>>>>> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
> >>>>>> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
> >>>>>> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
> >>>>>> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
> >>>>>> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
> >>>>>> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
> >>>>>> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
> >>>>>> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
> >>>>>> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
> >>>>>> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
> >>>>>> territory to domestic production.
> >>>>>> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
> >>>>>> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
> >>>>>> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
> >>>>>> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
> >>>>>> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
> >>>>>> are."
> >>>>>> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
> >>>>>> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
> >>>>>> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
> >>>>>> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
> >>>>>> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
> >>>>> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
> >>>>http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
> >>>> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
> >>>> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
> >>>> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
> >>>> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
> >>>> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
> >>>> to the United States.
> >>>> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
> >>>> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
> >>>> States.
> >>>> SLANT DRILLING
> >>>> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
> >>>> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
> >>>> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
> >>>> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
> >>>> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
> >>>> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
> >>>> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
> >>>> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
> >>>> massive port facility and airfield.
> >>>> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
> >>>> Castro.
> >>>> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
> >>>> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
> >>>> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
> >>>> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
> >>> now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,
> >> No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.
>
> >> You stupid piece of shit.
>
> >http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156914
>
> > Lifetime achievement
>
> > This year's Lifetime Achievement Dud goes to part-time senator/full-
> > time special interest shill Larry Craig,
>
> That's it?
>
> You took the bait hook line and sinker!
>
> You moron.

if you think larry is honest, then you took the ungreased wooden pole
where the sun don't shine, snicker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:17 pm
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:

> we know they are sitting on untapped oil, shill.

At Gull Island, right...conspiracy KOOK!

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:17 pm
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
> On Jun 19, 5:29 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>> On Jun 19, 1:01 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>>>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>>>>>> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
>>>>>>>> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>>>>>>>>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>>>>>>>>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
>>>>>>>>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>>>>>>>>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
>>>>>>>>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
>>>>>>>>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
>>>>>>>>>> feet of natural gas."
>>>>>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>>>>>>>>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
>>>>>>>> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
>>>>>>>> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
>>>>>>>> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
>>>>>>>> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
>>>>>>>> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
>>>>>>>> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
>>>>>>>> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
>>>>>>>> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
>>>>>>>> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
>>>>>>>> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
>>>>>>>> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
>>>>>>>> territory to domestic production.
>>>>>>>> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
>>>>>>>> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
>>>>>>>> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
>>>>>>>> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
>>>>>>>> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
>>>>>>>> are."
>>>>>>>> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
>>>>>>>> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
>>>>>>>> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
>>>>>>>> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
>>>>>>>> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
>>>>>>> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
>>>>>> http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
>>>>>> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
>>>>>> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
>>>>>> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
>>>>>> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
>>>>>> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
>>>>>> to the United States.
>>>>>> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
>>>>>> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
>>>>>> States.
>>>>>> SLANT DRILLING
>>>>>> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
>>>>>> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
>>>>>> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
>>>>>> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
>>>>>> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
>>>>>> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
>>>>>> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
>>>>>> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
>>>>>> massive port facility and airfield.
>>>>>> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
>>>>>> Castro.
>>>>>> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
>>>>>> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
>>>>>> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
>>>>>> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
>>>>> now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,
>>>> No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.
>>>> You stupid piece of shit.
>>> http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156914
>>> Lifetime achievement
>>> This year's Lifetime Achievement Dud goes to part-time senator/full-
>>> time special interest shill Larry Craig,
>> That's it?
>>
>> You took the bait hook line and sinker!
>>
>> You moron.
>
> if you think larry is honest,

Can you refute the legislation introduced?

No?

Then STFU.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 8:56 pm
From: Video61@tcq.net

On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> > we know they are sitting on untapped oil, shill.
>
> At Gull Island, right...conspiracy KOOK!

the non drilling of millions of acres, and the refusal to uncap
1000's of stripper wells is a conspiracy, what do you think we are
talking about? they want more land to lease, yet they say they cannot
even supply the needed skilled workers and equipment to even develop
what they have now.
when its tapped, regardless of where it is, you will disappear, or
change your handle hey shill:)

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 8:57 pm
From: Video61@tcq.net

On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 5:29 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> >> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> >>> On Jun 19, 1:01 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> >>>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> >>>>> On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> >>>>>> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
> >>>>>>>> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
> >>>>>>>>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
> >>>>>>>>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
> >>>>>>>>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
> >>>>>>>>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
> >>>>>>>>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
> >>>>>>>>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
> >>>>>>>>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
> >>>>>>>>>> feet of natural gas."
> >>>>>>>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
> >>>>>>>>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
> >>>>>>>>>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
> >>>>>>>> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
> >>>>>>>> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
> >>>>>>>> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
> >>>>>>>> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
> >>>>>>>> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
> >>>>>>>> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
> >>>>>>>> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
> >>>>>>>> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
> >>>>>>>> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
> >>>>>>>> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
> >>>>>>>> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
> >>>>>>>> territory to domestic production.
> >>>>>>>> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
> >>>>>>>> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
> >>>>>>>> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
> >>>>>>>> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
> >>>>>>>> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
> >>>>>>>> are."
> >>>>>>>> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
> >>>>>>>> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
> >>>>>>>> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
> >>>>>>>> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
> >>>>>>>> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
> >>>>>>> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
> >>>>>>http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
> >>>>>> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
> >>>>>> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
> >>>>>> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
> >>>>>> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
> >>>>>> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
> >>>>>> to the United States.
> >>>>>> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
> >>>>>> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
> >>>>>> States.
> >>>>>> SLANT DRILLING
> >>>>>> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
> >>>>>> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
> >>>>>> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
> >>>>>> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
> >>>>>> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
> >>>>>> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
> >>>>>> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
> >>>>>> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
> >>>>>> massive port facility and airfield.
> >>>>>> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
> >>>>>> Castro.
> >>>>>> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
> >>>>>> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
> >>>>>> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
> >>>>>> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
> >>>>> now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,
> >>>> No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.
> >>>> You stupid piece of shit.
> >>>http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156914
> >>> Lifetime achievement
> >>> This year's Lifetime Achievement Dud goes to part-time senator/full-
> >>> time special interest shill Larry Craig,
> >> That's it?
>
> >> You took the bait hook line and sinker!
>
> >> You moron.
>
> > if you think larry is honest,
>
> Can you refute the legislation introduced?
>
> No?
>
> Then STFU.

they should be forced into putting up, or shutting up. they should
put their money where there mouth is. i bet you want me to shut up eh
shill:)

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 9:14 pm
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
> On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>> we know they are sitting on untapped oil, shill.
>> At Gull Island, right...conspiracy KOOK!
>
> the non drilling of millions of acres,

Do you have some independent data sources or corroborative urls to back
up what that guy said?

I mean, really, just go for it, put them here:______________________.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 9:15 pm
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
> On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>> On Jun 19, 5:29 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>>>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 19, 1:01 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>>>>>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>>>>>>>> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
>>>>>>>>>> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
>>>>>>>>>>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
>>>>>>>>>>>> feet of natural gas."
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>>>>>>>>>>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
>>>>>>>>>> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
>>>>>>>>>> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
>>>>>>>>>> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
>>>>>>>>>> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
>>>>>>>>>> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
>>>>>>>>>> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
>>>>>>>>>> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
>>>>>>>>>> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
>>>>>>>>>> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
>>>>>>>>>> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
>>>>>>>>>> territory to domestic production.
>>>>>>>>>> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
>>>>>>>>>> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
>>>>>>>>>> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
>>>>>>>>>> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
>>>>>>>>>> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
>>>>>>>>>> are."
>>>>>>>>>> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
>>>>>>>>>> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
>>>>>>>>>> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
>>>>>>>>>> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
>>>>>>>>>> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
>>>>>>>>> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
>>>>>>>> http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
>>>>>>>> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
>>>>>>>> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
>>>>>>>> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
>>>>>>>> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
>>>>>>>> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
>>>>>>>> to the United States.
>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
>>>>>>>> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
>>>>>>>> States.
>>>>>>>> SLANT DRILLING
>>>>>>>> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
>>>>>>>> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
>>>>>>>> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
>>>>>>>> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
>>>>>>>> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
>>>>>>>> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
>>>>>>>> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
>>>>>>>> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
>>>>>>>> massive port facility and airfield.
>>>>>>>> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
>>>>>>>> Castro.
>>>>>>>> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
>>>>>>>> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
>>>>>>>> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
>>>>>>>> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
>>>>>>> now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,
>>>>>> No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.
>>>>>> You stupid piece of shit.
>>>>> http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156914
>>>>> Lifetime achievement
>>>>> This year's Lifetime Achievement Dud goes to part-time senator/full-
>>>>> time special interest shill Larry Craig,
>>>> That's it?
>>>> You took the bait hook line and sinker!
>>>> You moron.
>>> if you think larry is honest,
>> Can you refute the legislation introduced?
>>
>> No?
>>
>> Then STFU.
>
> they should be forced into

SHADDUP ASSHOLE!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you tip this person?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1737a3480cc643dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:03 pm
From: larry

NB wrote:
> I took my car in to the dealer for maintenance. They have a free
> shuttle that will take you anywhere (like to your job), and then pick
> you up when they are done with the maintenance. Should the driver be
> tipped? If so, how much?

The last dealer(subaru) shuttle that dropped us off at work
was driven by one of the salesmen. We offered, he said it
was a courtesy, hoping we might keep them in mind for
maintenance and next car. The return trip driver that
afternoon was a shop helper, he too declined. He also
thanked us for having our car repaired at ~his~ shop as we
left the van.

We use supershuttle, and do tip 5 to 15%, amount depending
on punctuality. Was real heartburn, until we started
scheduling for the flight that left 1/2 hour before ours ;-)

-- larry/dallas

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:27 pm
From: James

On Jun 19, 3:00 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 19, 7:41 am, NB <nobuy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I took my car in to the dealer for maintenance. They have a free
> > shuttle that will take you anywhere (like to your job), and then pick
> > you up when they are done with the maintenance. Should the driver be
> > tipped? If so, how much?
>
> I never have...and I didn't see anyone else do it, either. I suppose
> where I work we figure he's getting a union paycheck so why would we?
> From what I can tell it's just one of the service advisers, they
> rotate the van driving.

Depends on the dealership. I've been to hundreds of dealerships as
aprt of my job, never seen a union one.

First off not many are union. Some hire someone to be the driver -
usually look for retired people pay them lower.

Sometimes its the parts runner - the guy who picks up parts.

Sometimes its the service advisor.

James

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 5:07 pm
From: George Grapman

larry wrote:
> NB wrote:
>> I took my car in to the dealer for maintenance. They have a free
>> shuttle that will take you anywhere (like to your job), and then pick
>> you up when they are done with the maintenance. Should the driver be
>> tipped? If so, how much?
>
> The last dealer(subaru) shuttle that dropped us off at work was driven
> by one of the salesmen. We offered, he said it was a courtesy, hoping
> we might keep them in mind for maintenance and next car. The return
> trip driver that afternoon was a shop helper, he too declined. He also
> thanked us for having our car repaired at ~his~ shop as we left the van.
>
> We use supershuttle, and do tip 5 to 15%, amount depending on
> punctuality. Was real heartburn, until we started scheduling for the
> flight that left 1/2 hour before ours ;-)
>
> -- larry/dallas
Same thing here. I always tell them 60 minutes earlier than the
actual time. Even when someone is driving me to an airport I like to be
there early. My idea of a goos start is clearing security 60 minutes
before departure.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 5:14 pm
From: George Grapman

James wrote:
> On Jun 19, 3:00 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 19, 7:41 am, NB <nobuy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I took my car in to the dealer for maintenance. They have a free
>>> shuttle that will take you anywhere (like to your job), and then pick
>>> you up when they are done with the maintenance. Should the driver be
>>> tipped? If so, how much?
>> I never have...and I didn't see anyone else do it, either. I suppose
>> where I work we figure he's getting a union paycheck so why would we?
>> From what I can tell it's just one of the service advisers, they
>> rotate the van driving.
>
> Depends on the dealership. I've been to hundreds of dealerships as
> aprt of my job, never seen a union one.
>
> First off not many are union. Some hire someone to be the driver -
> usually look for retired people pay them lower.
>
> Sometimes its the parts runner - the guy who picks up parts.
>
> Sometimes its the service advisor.
>
> James

I do not know where you are but in the Bay Area a lot of dealerships
are union. I used to sell advertising for a union paper and in order to
sell a car dealer the service department had to be union but not the
sales reps.
It was interesting selling them and putting the shoe on the other
foot. This biggest problem was getting the check. The sales manager or
the GM would have me convinced that they were the final authority but
when I would write up an invoice or call them and ask who I should ask
for when I came by to get the ad copy and the check it often turned out
they had to kick it upstairs. On the other hand once I sold them they
usually became repeat advertisers.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: for sale --- lady chanel lv coach crocs sandals, prada sunglasses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7f79a54b3fa7e649?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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Discount, Versace Sunglasses
Discount, A&F Sunglasses
Discount, LV Sunglasses

Wholesale, Prada Sunglasses
Wholesale, D&G Sunglasses
Wholesale, Fendi Sunglasses
Wholesale, Burberry Sunglasses
Wholesale, Chanel Sunglasses
Wholesale, LV Sunglasses
Wholesale, Dior Sunglasses
Wholesale, ( G U C C I ) Sunglasses
Wholesale, Armani Sunglasses
Wholesale, Versace Sunglasses
Wholesale, A&F Sunglasses
Wholesale, LV Sunglasses

==============================================================================
TOPIC: KFC coupon
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d5b38ea89ca1d198?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:20 pm
From: max

In article <Qgz6k.13399$Ri.5487@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>,
George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:

> clams_casino wrote:
> > Cheapo Groovo wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hopefully someone likes KFC out there!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Almost as much as I like Olive Garden for authenic Itlaian and Red
> > Lobster for the freshest seafood.
> Interestingly enough those two share the same parent company.
> Anyone remember when KFC was Kentucky Fried Chicken and it was edible?

The Colonel, may God bless him, weeps in heaven.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 5:15 pm
From: George Grapman

max wrote:
> In article <Qgz6k.13399$Ri.5487@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>> Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hopefully someone likes KFC out there!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Almost as much as I like Olive Garden for authenic Itlaian and Red
>>> Lobster for the freshest seafood.
>> Interestingly enough those two share the same parent company.
>> Anyone remember when KFC was Kentucky Fried Chicken and it was edible?
>
> The Colonel, may God bless him, weeps in heaven.
>
After he sold the company they still used him for promos. When they
introduced a new recipe he took part in the PR event. He took one bite
and said it was the worst chicken he had ever tasted.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 7:58 pm
From: "Gregory Morrow"

Cheapo Groovo wrote:

> http://www.kfc-la.com/print-coupon-value-menu.html
>
> Hopefully someone likes KFC out there!

Groovy...!!!

--
Best
Greg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FREE Microsoft Office 2007 - Completely Legal!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a29ca44f3d5385c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 4:54 pm
From: RPOD

Here are the details of how to get this deal:

http://www.desicrazy.com/2008/06/19/free-microsoft-office-small-business-2007-completely-legal-and-legit/

Enjoy!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Water 4 Gas
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1eb6c2388ced324e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 5:30 pm
From: "Lou"

"Nicik Name" <orbits@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:T42dnc0ccJOcL8TVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@earthlink.com...
> In simple words, this technology involves putting together home-made
> devices that use a little electricity out of your car's battery to
> separate water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen). HHO,
> also known as Hydrogen*Oxygen(tm) or Hydroxy, burns beautifully and by so
> doing provides TONS of energy.

Burning this stuff can provide no more energy than that supplied by the
battery to break down the water. And the battery in turn is charged by the
car's engine, which is powered by gasoline. And because no process is 100%
efficient, what you can get out at the end is less than you put in at the
beginning.

In short, this is a losing proposition.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 6:49 pm
From: max

In article <ESC6k.2868$ul.2255@trndny08>, "Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net>
wrote:

> "Nicik Name" <orbits@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:T42dnc0ccJOcL8TVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@earthlink.com...
> > In simple words, this technology involves putting together home-made
> > devices that use a little electricity out of your car's battery to
> > separate water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen). HHO,
> > also known as Hydrogen*Oxygen(tm) or Hydroxy, burns beautifully and by so
> > doing provides TONS of energy.
>
> Burning this stuff can provide no more energy than that supplied by the
> battery to break down the water. And the battery in turn is charged by the
> car's engine, which is powered by gasoline. And because no process is 100%
> efficient, what you can get out at the end is less than you put in at the
> beginning.
>
> In short, this is a losing proposition.

not to mention that HHO is about the definition of explosive gas.
Frankly, anyone STUPID enough to screw around with this system under the
foolish belief it's going to save them gas is likely to have a bad
accident.

Even better is the fact that a hydrogen flame radiates in the UV, not
the visible spectrum. You can't see a hydrogen flame. (look at the space
shuttle main engines (not the SRBs) sometime) Great way to get hurt or
sunburned or blown up. Stoichiometric Hydrogen/oxygen (H2O) is
literally the reference for fuel-air explosive gas mixtures.

.max

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This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 9:56 pm
From: "Bob"

"max" :
> In article <ESC6k.2868$ul.2255@trndny08>, "Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> "Nicik Name" :
>> > In simple words, this technology involves putting together home-made
>> > devices that use a little electricity out of your car's battery to
>> > separate water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen). HHO,
>> > also known as Hydrogen*OxygenT or Hydroxy, burns beautifully and by so
>> > doing provides TONS of energy.
>>
>> Burning this stuff can provide no more energy than that supplied by the
>> battery to break down the water. And the battery in turn is charged by
>> the
>> car's engine, which is powered by gasoline. And because no process is
>> 100%
>> efficient, what you can get out at the end is less than you put in at the
>> beginning.
>>
>> In short, this is a losing proposition.
>
> not to mention that HHO is about the definition of explosive gas.
> Frankly, anyone STUPID enough to screw around with this system under the
> foolish belief it's going to save them gas is likely to have a bad
> accident.
>
> Even better is the fact that a hydrogen flame radiates in the UV, not
> the visible spectrum. You can't see a hydrogen flame. (look at the space
> shuttle main engines (not the SRBs) sometime) Great way to get hurt or
> sunburned or blown up. Stoichiometric Hydrogen/oxygen (H2O) is
> literally the reference for fuel-air explosive gas mixtures.
>

HHO increases mileage simply because an automobile is only about 20-30%
efficient.
If you guys had actually looked on the net at the thousands of people
who've already done this modification (getting 20-50% more mileage), would
you still be advertising your ignorance so blatantly?
Besides modifying the antiquated, inefficient internal combustion engine,
HHO is being used to power efficient welding torches. The flame is very hot,
but the unique property of the flame is such that the torch head stays cool.

There are many web sites providing free information along with their kits.
Simple searches turn up many hits. If you're not handy with tools, and pay
someone to do simple things like change the oil, well.. you pay for your
ignorance and incompetence. But that can change. The more you do, the more
you can do.

I drive barely 100 miles per week. But may soon try this modification just
for fun. The problems may be: the vehicle's computer may not be "smart"
enough to adjust to the correct air/fuel mix. And there will be more
condensation precipitate, perhaps corroding valves and such faster.

Seems like a hybrid electric with regenerative braking is really the way to
go.

A youtube search on "HHO":
<http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hho&search_type=&aq=f>

Google search on "HHO":
<http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS254&q=hho>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Senate Housing Bill Requires eBay, Amazon, Google, and All Credit Card
Companies to Report Transactions to the Government
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/995e66793c4ef4b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 6:23 pm
From: "nospam"

Chris Dodd wrote this language.

Dick Armey opposes it.

Do the math, and find out the real reason Republicans are trying to
block this housing bill.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 7:59 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <PDA6k.2853$ul.2221@trndny08>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.freedomworks.org/newsroom/press_template.php?press_id=2571

The odds of this bill being passed with that provision in it are even
smaller than that provision ever passing constitutional muster.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: run yo car on Water?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a2d4d2dcf22b0d4a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 9:56 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008, Ian S. Salisbury wrote:

> Derald wrote:
>> JonL <JonL@Mayday.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It works in Japan:
>> No, it doesn't.
>
> Yes, it does :)
> But it works less efficiently than tossing the fuel cell and using the same
> amount of electricity to charge up a couple batteries.
>

I was watching the Beverly Hillbilly's today and Jethro had built
a car that ran on water and it was running beautifully. Then he
switched to gas and it broke down. Turned out he had put the valve
in backwards and actually it was the water that broke down.

Those Clampett's were ahead of their time.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 10:52 am
From: Video61@tcq.net

On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
> >> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
> >>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
> >>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
> >>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
> >>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
> >>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
> >>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
> >>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
> >>>> feet of natural gas."
>
> >>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
> >>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
>
> >>>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
>
> >> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
> >> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
> >> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
> >> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
>
> >> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
> >> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
> >> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
> >> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
> >> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
>
> >> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
> >> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
> >> territory to domestic production.
>
> >> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
> >> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
> >> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
> >> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
> >> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
> >> are."
>
> >> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
> >> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
> >> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
> >> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
> >> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
>
> > LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
>
> http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
>
> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
> to the United States.
>
> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
> States.
>
> SLANT DRILLING
>
> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
>
> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
> massive port facility and airfield.
>
> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
> Castro.
>
> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.

now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful, the toilet
queen! ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 11:00 am
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
> On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>>> On Jun 18, 12:39 pm, "ChairMan" <w...@fu.com> wrote:
>>>> <billimmel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:b8cfc506-6cc7-4f78-aceb-a89fb8257331@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:22 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> The time is ripe for America to use existing technology to get those
>>>>>> electric cars rolling down the assembly lines. But the usual
>>>>>> suspects, the same bastards who love illegal aliens and other cheap
>>>>>> labor sources, opt for what they think is the easy solution. Fuck
>>>>>> 'em all!
>>>>>> ted
>>>>>> "They trundle into the fast food outlet, fat asses leaving the SUV
>>>>>> full of plump wives and noisy children. Behind their vehicle is a
>>>>>> trailer bearing two ATV's. This family is doing it's outdoor thing".
>>>>> The hacks always look for a quick cheap fix. I will bet that American
>>>>> industry can produce a solar-boosted electric car faster then the
>>>>> first
>>>>> drilling rig can be placed.
>>>>> bill
>>>> There are already rigs off the coast of Florida, they're just not ours.
>>>> Why is it that all you anti oil people dont have a problem with us drilling
>>>> in other countries and fuckin' up their enviroment?
>>>> Just don't do it my backyard, huh?
>>>> You're the same people that complain about how bad Bush has made us look to
>>>> the rest of the world, but don't take any personal responsiblity of your own
>>>> for your views.
>>>> The word hypocrite comes to mind.
>>>> BTW: WTF are we saving "OUR" oil for?
>>> there are 1000's of capped wells in the u.s.a. right now, just
>>> sitting.
>> Those are known as non-producing or test wells, you idiot!
>>
>>> there are many untold leases that were issued to the oil
>>> companies, and they are just sitting.
>> Because the seismic surveys came up poorly, fool.
>>
>>> the cons and their corporate
>>> masters just want to tie up more reserves in their portfolios for
>>> future gauging.
>> I can gauge your stupidity and paranoia quite well, you vermin.
>>
>>> they will leak the oil out slowly, whilst
>> Oh stfu, you damned lying whiner!
>
> i see reality is not one of your stronger suits is it. name calling
> will not change reality. i see no evidence provided by you that
> refutes what i am saying.

You whining ignorant fuckwit - you come in spewing paranoia with NO
CITES and ask me to refute your simple-minded delusions?!?!????

WTF is wrong with your damned useless head????

No matter - read the FACTS and welcome to REALITY, you stuttering moron!

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/analysispaper/congr/

Crude Oil Reserve Trends

Offshore Crude Oil Reserves

Onshore Crude Oil Reserves

Potential Causes for the Growth in Nonproducing Crude Oil and Natural
Gas Reserves

Onshore, the growth in nonproducing crude oil and natural gas reserves
could reflect the development constraints caused by environmental
regulations and litigation. Some of this litigation is by parties
wishing to stop drilling and production on State and Federal lands.
Some of this litigation is by surface owners who do not own the crude
oil and natural gas mineral rights, and therefore have no direct
financial incentive to permit crude oil and natural gas drilling and
infrastructure on their land. Instead, the surface owners have a
financial incentive to litigate the drilling and production of crude oil
and natural gas in order to extract as large a rent concession from the
mineral producer as possible.

Conclusions

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 11:01 am
From: singularity

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
> On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
>> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
>>>> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
>>>>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
>>>>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
>>>>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
>>>>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
>>>>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
>>>>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
>>>>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
>>>>>> feet of natural gas."
>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
>>>>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
>>>>> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
>>>> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
>>>> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
>>>> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
>>>> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
>>>> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
>>>> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
>>>> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
>>>> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
>>>> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
>>>> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
>>>> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
>>>> territory to domestic production.
>>>> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
>>>> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
>>>> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
>>>> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
>>>> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
>>>> are."
>>>> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
>>>> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
>>>> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
>>>> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
>>>> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
>>> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
>> http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
>>
>> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
>> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
>> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
>> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
>> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
>> to the United States.
>>
>> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
>> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
>> States.
>>
>> SLANT DRILLING
>>
>> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
>> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
>> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
>>
>> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
>> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
>> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
>> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
>> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
>> massive port facility and airfield.
>>
>> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
>> Castro.
>>
>> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
>> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
>> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
>> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
>
> now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,

No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.

You stupid piece of shit.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 12:01 pm
From: ztc

On Jun 19, 2:01 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:

> >> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
> >> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
> >> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
> >> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
>
> > now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,
>
> No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.

Larry Craig must have drilled into your ass for you to be whoring for
this BS. Of course it won't ever bring the price of a gallon of gas
down but it will make a few greedy @$$holes even richer if they can
scam enough people.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 3:02 pm
From: Video61@tcq.net

On Jun 19, 1:00 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
there are literally 1000's of stripper wells that were capped in
america in the late 1970's because it was cheaper to import the oil,
and they are all over america, and they remain capped.
there is no way that they can make up for the shortfall, and i never
said they would. what i said is that they should exploit what they
have first, before coming to the government hat in hand. of course you
knew this, you are a paid oil company shill.
then there are the whole fields that are capped like gull island. so,
i do not need to call you names, except shill.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 3:14 pm
From: Video61@tcq.net

On Jun 19, 1:01 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 12:38 pm, singularity <r...@kurtz.wheel> wrote:
> >> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:22:15 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:25:13 -0700, "Clave"
> >>>> <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> There are no Chinese rigs drilling on the Cuba side of the Florida
> >>>>>>> Strait according people in our government. But there is some truth
> >>>>>>> to your MIMBY prosecution.
> >>>>>> You believe our government? There's your problem right there
> >>>>>> "The U.S. Congress has voted consistently to keep 85% of America's
> >>>>>> offshore oil and gas off-limits, while China and Cuba drill 60 miles from
> >>>>>> Key West, Fla. The U.S. Minerals Management Service says that the
> >>>>>> restricted areas contain 86 billion barrels of oil and 420 trillion cubic
> >>>>>> feet of natural gas."
> >>>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080609/bs_ibd_ibd/20080609issues01
> >>>>> That's an unsourced op-ed, and it's full of shit.
> >>>>>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
> >>>> Yet no one can prove that the Chinese are drilling anywhere off Cuba's
> >>>> shoreline. The China-Cuba connection is "akin to urban legend," said
> >>>> Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida who opposes drilling off
> >>>> the coast of his state but who backs exploration in ANWR.
> >>>> "China is not drilling in Cuba's Gulf of Mexico waters, period," said
> >>>> Jorge Pinon, an energy fellow with the Center for Hemispheric Policy
> >>>> at the University of Miami and an expert in oil exploration in the
> >>>> Gulf of Mexico. Martinez cited Pinon's research when he took to the
> >>>> Senate floor Wednesday to set the record straight.
> >>>> Even so, the Chinese-drilling-in-Cuba legend has gained momentum and
> >>>> has been swept up in Republican arguments to open up more U.S.
> >>>> territory to domestic production.
> >>>> Vice President Dick Cheney, in a speech Wednesday to the U.S. Chamber
> >>>> of Commerce, picked up the refrain. Cheney quoted a column by George
> >>>> Will, who wrote last week that "drilling is under way 60 miles off
> >>>> Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with
> >>>> Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies
> >>>> are."
> >>>> I think Congress should haul Cheney's but in front of a committee and
> >>>> roast him for lying again. These grandiose lies serve as a great
> >>>> entre to hold up how much he personally is liable for lying us into
> >>>> Iraq. he repeatedly told lies on the Sunday talking heads programs
> >>>> even after the intelligence agencies told him thy were lies.
> >>> LOL. Seems Cheney realized his liability and "corrected" it.
> >>http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
>
> >> The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore
> >> and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West,
> >> Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who
> >> controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making
> >> deals to sell his country?s oil to China, oil that is currently coming
> >> to the United States.
>
> >> Meanwhile, a new left-wing populist regime in Bolivia has nationalized
> >> the natural gas industry, threatening to cut off supplies to the United
> >> States.
>
> >> SLANT DRILLING
>
> >> There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to
> >> slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into
> >> U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels.
>
> >> China is eager to tap into oil reserves in the Florida Straits and then
> >> make a deal with Castro to control it. The Chinese have already reopened
> >> an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba. Much of the gas refined there
> >> is believed to be destined for Freeport in the Bahamas, where the
> >> Chinese, through front company Hutchison-Whampoa, has developed a
> >> massive port facility and airfield.
>
> >> With the refinery reopened and expanded it will also meet the needs of
> >> Castro.
>
> >> Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) has introduced legislation to ease U.S.
> >> restrictions that prevent dealing with Cuba to drill in the Florida
> >> Straits. It is hoped that Florida regulations that prevent U.S. oil
> >> drilling off the state?s coasts could also be eased.
>
> > now there is a name that you can count on to be truthful,
>
> No factual rebuttal, thanks for taking the bait- hook,line and sinker.
>
> You stupid piece of shit.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156914

Lifetime achievement

This year's Lifetime Achievement Dud goes to part-time senator/full-
time special interest shill Larry Craig, who has collected so many
duds over the years, we figure he must be renting a wall in a FEMA
operations center somewhere on which to hang them all.

This year, even after an exhausting 25 years feeding at the public
trough, Craig managed to hit a three-dudder. First, he introduced
legislation granting immunity to gun manufacturers for any liability
on damage, death and destruction their products might bring about--a
pre-emptive strike on those whiny survivors who lose a loved one to
the pandemic of gun violence. Then, on the principle that no
information is the best information when it comes to protecting the
interests of his powerful patrons, he de-funded the Fish Passage
Center--an agency that keeps track of how many salmon and steelhead
return to the Northwest every year.

But the most flamboyant display of Craigish insensitivity was when he
offended the entire nation by suggesting it would be best if New
Orleans was never rebuilt, seeing as how the town is so rife with
corruption and pay-offs. (And if anyone from Idaho knows a thing or
two about pay-offs, it has to be Larry Craig.)

With this level of arrogance, we here at BW have come to the opinion
that Craig has earned the distinction of being the first inductee into
Idaho's Hall of Dud-dom. We will even spring for a life-sized bronze
bust of Senator Larry in his prime--should he ever get there.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 3:24 pm
From: singularity

Didn't like the EIA analysis fool?

Right back at ya!

No matter - read the FACTS and welcome to REALITY, you stuttering moron!

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/analysispaper/congr/

Crude Oil Reserve Trends

Offshore Crude Oil Reserves

Onshore Crude Oil Reserves

Potential Causes for the Growth in Nonproducing Crude Oil and Natural
Gas Reserves

Conclusions

> there is no way that they can make up for the shortfall, and i never
> said they would. what i said is that they should exploit what they
> have first,

They already are:

http://www.rigzone.com/store/product.asp?p_id=408

Primer of Oilwell Service, Workover, and Completion
Author: Kate Van Dyke
Format: Paperback
Pages: 172
ISBN: 0-88698-175-1
Publisher: PETEX
Year Published: 1996
Item Number: 100-408

Availability: In Stock $52.00

> before coming to the government hat in hand. of course you
> knew this, you are a paid oil company shill.

LOL!

Oh I do wish I had that gig, but sorry, fool, you guessed wrong again!

> then there are the whole fields that are capped like gull island. so,
> i do not need to call you names, except shill.

Oh, a conspiracy buff eh?

Ya, this is real credible stuff:

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=48672

Alaska's Gull Island Oil Fields Could Power U.S. for 200 Years

By Mark Anderson

As a Baptist missionary in the 1970s, Williams said he rubbed elbows
with members of the world's power elite—who boasted of detailed 30-year
and 50-year plans to control the flow of oil and information.

"Every issue in the world today relates to crude oil," said Williams.
The U.S. occupation of Iraq and the saber rattling about attacking Iran
fit into the crude oil matrix.

...

The big event in that three-year period was in 1977 when an Atlantic
Richfield oil executive told him, "We have just drilled into the largest
pool of oil in North America—[and] in the world!"

Williams said the executive had warned him that the Gull Island find was
highly classified. Do not repeat any of this, he was told. Obviously,
that warning did not stop him.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...sland_oil.html

You're being lied to and manipulated:

View THIS:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67011147&hl=en

These are the FACTS!

Lindsey Williams talks about his first hand knowledge of Alaskan oil
reserves larger than any on earth. Gas less than $1.50 a gallon! Imagine
that!

Here's another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC61X78-OI0 (A few years later, it's
still true. Truth doesn't change!)

So who is this Lindsey Williams ?

Because of the executive status accorded to him as Chaplain, he was
given access to the information that is documented in this book.

Because of the outstanding public response that has been generated by
this book, Lindsey Williams is in great demand for speaking engagements,
radio, and TV shows.

More here:

http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis.html

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 11:03 am
From: Peter Bruells

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> writes:

> If they go to a hotel the people at the hotel will take the
> luggage. Driver tells them they are bad tippers. Guests wonder why
> room service is so slow.

Because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy?

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 11:35 am
From: George Grapman

Peter Bruells wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> writes:
>
>> If they go to a hotel the people at the hotel will take the
>> luggage. Driver tells them they are bad tippers. Guests wonder why
>> room service is so slow.
>
> Because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy?

What happened was the doorman and the bellhops let word get out that
the people in 1528 are bad tippers. In the morning room service id
backed up with orders. Guess which room goes on the bottom of the list.
All I ever did was refuse to handle their luggage. There were drivers
who,knowing their fares would not tip, took the scenic route to the airport.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 11:49 am
From: Peter Bruells

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> writes:

> Peter Bruells wrote:
>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> writes:
>>
>>> If they go to a hotel the people at the hotel will take the
>>> luggage. Driver tells them they are bad tippers. Guests wonder why
>>> room service is so slow.
>>
>> Because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy?
>
>
> What happened was the doorman and the bellhops let word get out
> that the people in 1528 are bad tippers. In the morning room service
> id backed up with orders. Guess which room goes on the bottom of the
> list.

Those *believed* to be bad tippers.

> All I ever did was refuse to handle their luggage. There were
> drivers who, knowing their fares would not tip, took the scenic route
> to the airport.

Now, how much trust do you put into the words of such fraudulent
cheats?

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 12:05 pm
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"James" <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:676bb742-2ca9-43dd-b0f5-f58c0a2c3ec3@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

>I often take airport shuttles to budget car parks. I often wondered if
>I should tip. Judging from others actions, people don't generally.
>However I have made an exception when they get out of their seat and
>help me with my bags. A couple of bucks would be sufficient for a
>couple fo bags.

I generally tip $1 per bag, but only if the guy loads and unloads the bags.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 12:00 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jun 19, 7:41 am, NB <nobuy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I took my car in to the dealer for maintenance. They have a free
> shuttle that will take you anywhere (like to your job), and then pick
> you up when they are done with the maintenance. Should the driver be
> tipped? If so, how much?

I never have...and I didn't see anyone else do it, either. I suppose
where I work we figure he's getting a union paycheck so why would we?
From what I can tell it's just one of the service advisers, they
rotate the van driving.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:23 pm
From: George Grapman

Peter Bruells wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> writes:
>
>> Peter Bruells wrote:
>>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> If they go to a hotel the people at the hotel will take the
>>>> luggage. Driver tells them they are bad tippers. Guests wonder why
>>>> room service is so slow.
>>> Because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy?
>>
>> What happened was the doorman and the bellhops let word get out
>> that the people in 1528 are bad tippers. In the morning room service
>> id backed up with orders. Guess which room goes on the bottom of the
>> list.
>
> Those *believed* to be bad tippers.

When a skycap or a doorman loaded luggage into my cab and told me the
customers were cheap I had no reason not to believe them.
>
>> All I ever did was refuse to handle their luggage. There were
>> drivers who, knowing their fares would not tip, took the scenic route
>> to the airport.
>
> Now, how much trust do you put into the words of such fraudulent
> cheats?

Enough to know that there used to be a free weekly marketed to cab
drivers which carried reports of disciplinary actions taken against
drivers by the police bureau that regulated taxis. They would read
something like this:

William H.-License suspended three days for overcharging customer on
fare from JFK to mid-town. Complaint noted that driver too the Belt Parkway.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:24 pm
From: George Grapman

Seerialmom wrote:
> On Jun 19, 7:41 am, NB <nobuy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I took my car in to the dealer for maintenance. They have a free
>> shuttle that will take you anywhere (like to your job), and then pick
>> you up when they are done with the maintenance. Should the driver be
>> tipped? If so, how much?
>
> I never have...and I didn't see anyone else do it, either. I suppose
> where I work we figure he's getting a union paycheck so why would we?
> From what I can tell it's just one of the service advisers, they
> rotate the van driving.
In that case I would agree. The driver is already getting a decent
salary.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 11:24 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

http://www.kfc-la.com/print-coupon-value-menu.html

Hopefully someone likes KFC out there!

http://www.cheapogroovo.com

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 12:56 pm
From: clams_casino

Cheapo Groovo wrote:

>
>Hopefully someone likes KFC out there!
>
>
>
>

Almost as much as I like Olive Garden for authenic Itlaian and Red
Lobster for the freshest seafood.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:26 pm
From: George Grapman

clams_casino wrote:
> Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>
>>
>> Hopefully someone likes KFC out there!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Almost as much as I like Olive Garden for authenic Itlaian and Red
> Lobster for the freshest seafood.
Interestingly enough those two share the same parent company.
Anyone remember when KFC was Kentucky Fried Chicken and it was edible?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Storm door handle REPAIR?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aebfc140ea462d22?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 12:02 pm
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:rb6dnVAKy-DM58fVnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@earthlink.com...
> turtlelover wrote:
>> h wrote:
>>> "turtlelover" <turtlelover@DONOTenter.net> wrote in message
>>> news:48587878$0$18957$cd3e3bf6@news.enter.net...
>>>
>>>> Gordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> turtlelover <turtlelover@DONOTenter.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:48580e80$0$18913$cd3e3bf6@news.enter.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that I can purchase new handles for my storm doors, but I
>>>>>> wonder if anyone has successfully repaired the latching mechanism.
>>>>
>>>> <description snipped>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Frugalites.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Take the thing off the door (only three screws). The spring will
>>>>> be quite evident. Take it to a good hardware store and get a
>>>>> replacement spring. Note: Springs are not a commonly stocked item.
>>>>> You might have to
>>>>> try an auto parts store. Once you find a store that stocks a good
>>>>> source of springs; remember it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You can also get the right wire and make your own springs. You just need
>>> the right size metal core with a hole in one end. For really large
>>> springs or heavy wire, insert the core in your drill and slowly wind the
>>> wire around the core. That's the easiest way to make chain mail,
>>> although you wind that a lot tighter than a spring.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Even cheaper yet! Now, off to find the wire.
>
> Buy the spring! It's not a bad idea to find a good hardware store, all of
> them will have some drawers with misc hardware, including spring.
>
> Not every wire will make a good spring, most won't. If you have some
> piano wire (the name is a bit of a misnomer as it's not for pianos), you
> can wind one. Otherwise you'll have springs that will come unsprung!
>
> Jeff
>
Agreed. If you can buy them, it's a lot easier. I was forced to make my own
spring for a repair to a 200+ year old door latch, because I couldn't find a
new latch to fit (door is 4 inches thick). I took the broken spring
everywhere, and no one had anything similar. The really old guy (the 90 year
old, not his 70 year old son!) at the hardware store grabbed a piece of wire
and wrapped it around a metal dowel and made the spring for me in about 30
seconds and only charged me 50 cents! That's what gave me the idea for
winding chain mail rings with my drill, and I've also made some springs for
my fiskars scissors. I've since discovered that Fiskars will send you the
springs for free if you email them, so I haven't had to make a spring in
ages.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Our Troubled Country - Importing Poverty ( Frosty Wooldridge )
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47ef53144fdedf82?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:00 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

RM v2.0 <Blah@spam.sucks> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Marcus Aurelius <alexander26a@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> A nation that, through it's Constitution and Declaration of Independence, is founded on virtue,

>> Been having those pathetic little drug crazed fantasys long ?

>>> can not last when immigrants, both legal and illegal, are admitted to the USA in willful disrespect for this basic
>>> principle.

>> How odd that its the immigrants that turned the place from somewhere
>> where savages killed each other enthusiastically into what it is today.

> Different group and a different time. This current crop is reversing
> that and turning back into a savage area.

So did those involved in the wild west.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:23 pm
From: "Ian S. Salisbury"

Derald wrote:
> JonL <JonL@Mayday.com> wrote:
>
>> It works in Japan:
> No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does :)
But it works less efficiently than tossing the fuel cell and using the
same amount of electricity to charge up a couple batteries.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to re-program car remotes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6dcc4ba7e27a87b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:33 pm
From: Kompu Kid

On Jun 19, 9:12 am, Bebe <BbN...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jun 18, 1:52 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello All:
>
> > I am about to purchase a Chevrolet remote for the doors to replace my
> > broken one.
>
> > How do I program it to work with my door? Do I go to the dealer? Can a
> > lock smith do it?
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Deguza
>
> Where are you purchasing it?
> Bebe

From a friend. His truck is totaled so he has a unit he does not need
any more.

Deguza

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 2:08 pm
From: Bebe

On Jun 19, 3:33 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 19, 9:12 am, Bebe <BbN...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 18, 1:52 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hello All:
>
> > > I am about to purchase a Chevrolet remote for the doors to replace my
> > > broken one.
>
> > > How do I program it to work with my door? Do I go to the dealer? Can a
> > > lock smith do it?
>
> > > Thanks
>
> > > Deguza
>
> > Where are you purchasing it?
> > Bebe
>
> From a friend. His truck is totaled so he has a unit he does not need
> any more.
>
> Deguza- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, when mine stopped working, I took it to the dealership where I
bought the truck. They fixed it for me for free. I would suggest
calling a local Chevy dealer and inquiring about getting one
programmed for your vehicle. Good Luck!

Bebe

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to win love back win love back
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5ab114fc34ac997f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:55 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Jun 17, 12:27 am, RABBIT <getex...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How to win love back win love back
> YES! You can win back your true love. Even if you feel hopeless… Even
> if your lover is resistant… Even if you have been apart for a long
> time!
>
> A secret breakthrough formula has just been released and is literally
> taking the world by storm. Lovers everywhere are getting back together
> and it's all down to this simple, step-by-step program called 'Win
> Back Love'.
>
I love football, I love beer. Let's not cheapen the meaning of the
word.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I figured if living frugally already, why not also try this?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ad4146af2a051b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 1:59 pm
From: Al Bundy

cashbee...@gmail.com wrote:
> ( I actually know this lady and it�s all true
> RE: her story and what she went through. )
>
> The name of the new google group is BECOME AN INTERNET MILLIONAIRE.
>
> I finally talked her into writing her story down on paper. I begged
> her permission for 3 years before she would allow me to create a
> Google group so that other people could learn more about how to climb
> back from the abyss financially.

If you're begging your women, you're doing it wrong. Talk to Tom
Leikas.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 19 2008 2:58 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

http://www.freedomworks.org/newsroom/press_template.php?press_id=2571

--
----------------------
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice
cannot sleep forever."--Thomas Jefferson

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide
everything." -- Josef V. Stalin

www.myspace.com/bodybuildinggranny

heavy on the country music. if you don't like country, scroll down for
some surprises.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Thursday, June 19, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest