Frugal Living: Oct 6, 2008

Monday, October 6, 2008

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Repair all the problems on your computer in Miami,FL,USA http://
computerlatino.com/ReparationandSaveData.html
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3c144e728b48b2fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 5 2008 11:10 pm
From: "www.computerlatino.com"

Repair all the problems on your computer in Miami,FL,USA
http://computerlatino.com/ReparationandSaveData.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT $400Billion Lehman Assets Sent Back To Israel Right Before Collapse
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/96e7c86e25a64ac3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 2:23 am
From: Jeff

Brian Whatcott wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:59:26 -0500, Brent P
> <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2008-10-06, Brian Whatcott <betwys1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Though this kind of piece serves the "Jews as Usurers" lobby, I
>>> suggest we ought to be truly, truly afraid of the possibility that
>>> some folks who are not presently pulling out their much bigger
>>> chump-change: China and the Saudis, may soon
>>> change their minds....
>> Lehman didn't get a bailout. They are the disconnected. Notice who is
>> benefiting from the 'crisis' and government intervention. The morgans
>> and the rockefellers. (JP Morgan Chase & citibank)
>>
>>
> Not so sure about Citibank. I bid under $4 for Wachovia, and my limit
> bid didn't make it before they popped to $7 next day when Wells Fargo
> made their play. Citibank sounded all hurt about being jilted, and
> put a stay on the deal, though how anybody can stop a deal that costs
> the taxpayer zip

Not exactly nothing. The Wells Fargo deal came the day after tax
changes would have allowed billions and billions (74 Billion) of write
offs. Some have said that it was the more expensive (to the public
coffers) deal.

and values WB about seven times higher than the
> Citibank rescue deal, I cannot imagine.

Although the Citibank deal was not for all the assets, Wachovia
certainly thought the other deal preferable.

There's more going on here than is immediately visible. I suspect
we'll find out more presently. Treasury is being extremely "creative"
in using otherwise seldom used powers.

Jeff

I later heard that Buffet
> had a stake. I should have guessed. That Value fox also entered
> Goldman Sachs shortly after I did with a few more zeroes on the
> end of his buy.
>
> BrianW

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FIRE HAZARD: Powerbook and iBook power adapters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d46f579d7708786?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 2:48 am
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

http://consumerist.com/5058286/apple-offers-cash-to-powerbook-ibook-owners-with-defective-power-adapters

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Refrigerator efficiency test conditions?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c625918e12d7af9d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 3:09 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

PanHandler <Boon@digital.net> wrote:

>"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@geemail.com> wrote
>
>> First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam
>> insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing
>> temperature.
>
>And how efficient do you suppose *that* process was?

At best, a $23.95 new Danfoss freezer thermostat ($0.00 if scrounged from
a dead freezer) that turns on the bulb in the fridge when the freezer temp
rises to 15 F might cut the $51 annual yellow-tag cost to $3.60.

Or less, with more complex controls.

Nick

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 3:56 am
From: ransley

On Oct 6, 5:09 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> PanHandler <B...@digital.net> wrote:
> >"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwri...@geemail.com> wrote
>
> >> First it was the idiot who wanted to encase his freezer in thick foam
> >> insulation and operate it in a kitchen kept at barely above freezing
> >> temperature.
>
> >And how efficient do you suppose *that* process was?
>
> At best, a $23.95 new Danfoss freezer thermostat ($0.00 if scrounged from
> a dead freezer) that turns on the bulb in the fridge when the freezer temp
> rises to 15 F might cut the $51 annual yellow-tag cost to $3.60.
>
> Or less, with more complex controls.
>
> Nick

How could putting in an electric heater in a refrigerator make it
"more effecent" No dont answer that, It just wont make it more
"efficent" My Sears 19.5 resessed-covered with foam is more efficent
than Danfos ratings, Danfoss was-is not up to modern standards on
Compressors, [at least 5 years ago they were not].

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MP3 radio: Anti-Zionist Financial Wizard Daryl Bradford Smith New
Episode. (He has been warning about this meltdown throughout the past year)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6e96764ec44568c6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 4:04 am
From: "."

Friday 3rd October
Cii with call-ins

Daryl discussing the current financial mess

Part 1 (6.8mb)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Cii/smith%20rant-oct%203%20%2008%20%20pt1-1.mp3

Part 2 (8.5 mb)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Cii/smith%20rant-oct%203%20%2008%20%20pt2.mp3

The website google tried to censor:
http://www.iamthewitness.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Jersey webcam: Landie
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca873d820008577a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 5:53 am
From: krystinacarle@gmail.com

Webcam: Landie,19 year.New Jersey. Viens me voir et tu verras!
http://datesex.xhostar.com/landie1989.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: REPAIR YOUR SHOES!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/39fa3c07c1172ea6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 6:51 am
From: "ares"

Seems it's hard to find a shoe repair shop these days and to repair my
SAS's, they seem to want half the price of a new pair, which is very
expensive to begin with.... I wonder if there are many shoes that are worth
repairing these days anyway; maybe the shoes for the rich, who can afford to
buy a new pair anyway and they might like something newer and different
anyway....
ares

"SOLESISTER" <info@fortunas.com> wrote in message
news:3ccab00f-1ec9-4593-b490-ea466cba8e5d@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> RESOLE---HAVE your worn soles replaced
> RE-HEEL--have your worn heels replaced
> REPAIR THE UPPERS--uppers can be sewn, patched, cleaned, dyed and
> conditioned
> WEATHER PROOF--APPLY a good Water and Stain Protector to your cleaned
> leather
>
> Protect--take or send your new shoes and boots to a quality shoe
> repair shop to have:
> Protective Soles Installed
> Protective Plates (heel and toe) Installed
> Get Water and Stain Protection
>
> Visit us for information about Shoe Repair and Shoe Care
> http://fortunas.com

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 12:28 pm
From: SOLESISTER

On Oct 6, 9:51 am, "ares" <a...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Seems it's hard to find a shoe repair shop these days and to repair my
> SAS's, they seem to want half the price of a new pair, which is very
> expensive to begin with.... I wonder if there are many shoes that are worth
> repairing these days anyway; maybe the shoes for the rich, who can afford to
> buy a new pair anyway and they might like something newer and different
> anyway....
> ares
>
> "SOLESISTER" <i...@fortunas.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3ccab00f-1ec9-4593-b490-ea466cba8e5d@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > RESOLE---HAVE your worn soles replaced
> > RE-HEEL--have your worn heels replaced
> > REPAIR THE UPPERS--uppers can be sewn, patched, cleaned, dyed and
> > conditioned
> > WEATHER PROOF--APPLY a good Water and Stain Protector to your cleaned
> > leather
>
> > Protect--take or send your new shoes and boots to a quality shoe
> > repair shop to have:
> > Protective Soles Installed
> > Protective Plates (heel and toe) Installed
> > Get Water and Stain Protection
>
> > Visit us for information about Shoe Repair and Shoe Care
> >http://fortunas.com

You said it yourself--to repair your SAS might be as much as half the
price of new!! Is that not a good reason to do the repair? (if the
upper is still good). For half the cost of new shoes--you have re-
newed shoes that are already broken in and comfy for your feet! I
think, as the economic crisis ripens and matures, more people will
learn to appreciate that replacing a good item does not make sense if
it can be kept in use by having it repaired. You said you see few
shoe repair shops these days but ther is an abundance of very good
repair shops that offer their service thru the internet--some even
provide pre-paid mailing bags!

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 2:24 pm
From: "ares"

Well, usually by the time the sole needs repair, the tops are getting a bit
dingy too; don't get me wrong; I had one pair for over 10 years but many of
those were for getting messy in the yard shoes.
ares

"SOLESISTER" <info@fortunas.com> wrote in message
news:ee11c756-79e3-4f46-bb5d-ffda83c0e2ba@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 6, 9:51 am, "ares" <a...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Seems it's hard to find a shoe repair shop these days and to repair my
>> SAS's, they seem to want half the price of a new pair, which is very
>> expensive to begin with.... I wonder if there are many shoes that are
>> worth
>> repairing these days anyway; maybe the shoes for the rich, who can afford
>> to
>> buy a new pair anyway and they might like something newer and different
>> anyway....
>> ares
>>
>> "SOLESISTER" <i...@fortunas.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:3ccab00f-1ec9-4593-b490-ea466cba8e5d@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > RESOLE---HAVE your worn soles replaced
>> > RE-HEEL--have your worn heels replaced
>> > REPAIR THE UPPERS--uppers can be sewn, patched, cleaned, dyed and
>> > conditioned
>> > WEATHER PROOF--APPLY a good Water and Stain Protector to your cleaned
>> > leather
>>
>> > Protect--take or send your new shoes and boots to a quality shoe
>> > repair shop to have:
>> > Protective Soles Installed
>> > Protective Plates (heel and toe) Installed
>> > Get Water and Stain Protection
>>
>> > Visit us for information about Shoe Repair and Shoe Care
>> >http://fortunas.com
>
> You said it yourself--to repair your SAS might be as much as half the
> price of new!! Is that not a good reason to do the repair? (if the
> upper is still good). For half the cost of new shoes--you have re-
> newed shoes that are already broken in and comfy for your feet! I
> think, as the economic crisis ripens and matures, more people will
> learn to appreciate that replacing a good item does not make sense if
> it can be kept in use by having it repaired. You said you see few
> shoe repair shops these days but ther is an abundance of very good
> repair shops that offer their service thru the internet--some even
> provide pre-paid mailing bags!

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 2:47 pm
From: George Grapman

SOLESISTER wrote:
> On Oct 6, 9:51 am, "ares" <a...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Seems it's hard to find a shoe repair shop these days and to repair my
>> SAS's, they seem to want half the price of a new pair, which is very
>> expensive to begin with.... I wonder if there are many shoes that are worth
>> repairing these days anyway; maybe the shoes for the rich, who can afford to
>> buy a new pair anyway and they might like something newer and different
>> anyway....
>> ares
>>
>> "SOLESISTER" <i...@fortunas.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:3ccab00f-1ec9-4593-b490-ea466cba8e5d@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> RESOLE---HAVE your worn soles replaced
>>> RE-HEEL--have your worn heels replaced
>>> REPAIR THE UPPERS--uppers can be sewn, patched, cleaned, dyed and
>>> conditioned
>>> WEATHER PROOF--APPLY a good Water and Stain Protector to your cleaned
>>> leather
>>> Protect--take or send your new shoes and boots to a quality shoe
>>> repair shop to have:
>>> Protective Soles Installed
>>> Protective Plates (heel and toe) Installed
>>> Get Water and Stain Protection
>>> Visit us for information about Shoe Repair and Shoe Care
>>> http://fortunas.com
>
> You said it yourself--to repair your SAS might be as much as half the
> price of new!! Is that not a good reason to do the repair? (if the
> upper is still good). For half the cost of new shoes--you have re-
> newed shoes that are already broken in and comfy for your feet! I
> think, as the economic crisis ripens and matures, more people will
> learn to appreciate that replacing a good item does not make sense if
> it can be kept in use by having it repaired. You said you see few
> shoe repair shops these days but ther is an abundance of very good
> repair shops that offer their service thru the internet--some even
> provide pre-paid mailing bags!

I have two pairs of dress shoes that I got 6 years ago for about
$250 each. My walking pattern is very hard on shoes and about every 18
months I need new soles and heels. The local shoe repair place charge
$40 and they come back looking almost new.
Every so often I visit a shoe shine stand downtown. For $5 he
spends at least 10 minutes including applying stuff by hand.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 2:55 pm
From: SOLESISTER

On Oct 6, 5:47 pm, George Grapman <sfgeor...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> SOLESISTER wrote:
> > On Oct 6, 9:51 am, "ares" <a...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Seems it's hard to find a shoe repair shop these days and to repair my
> >> SAS's, they seem to want half the price of a new pair, which is very
> >> expensive to begin with.... I wonder if there are many shoes that are worth
> >> repairing these days anyway; maybe the shoes for the rich, who can afford to
> >> buy a new pair anyway and they might like something newer and different
> >> anyway....
> >> ares
>
> >> "SOLESISTER" <i...@fortunas.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:3ccab00f-1ec9-4593-b490-ea466cba8e5d@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> RESOLE---HAVE your worn soles replaced
> >>> RE-HEEL--have your worn heels replaced
> >>> REPAIR THE UPPERS--uppers can be sewn, patched, cleaned, dyed and
> >>> conditioned
> >>> WEATHER PROOF--APPLY a good Water and Stain Protector to your cleaned
> >>> leather
> >>> Protect--take or send your new shoes and boots to a quality shoe
> >>> repair shop to have:
> >>> Protective Soles Installed
> >>> Protective Plates (heel and toe) Installed
> >>> Get Water and Stain Protection
> >>> Visit us for information about Shoe Repair and Shoe Care
> >>>http://fortunas.com
>
> > You said it yourself--to repair your SAS might be as much as half the
> > price of new!! Is that not a good reason to do the repair? (if the
> > upper is still good). For half the cost of new shoes--you have re-
> > newed shoes that are already broken in and comfy for your feet! I
> > think, as the economic crisis ripens and matures, more people will
> > learn to appreciate that replacing a good item does not make sense if
> > it can be kept in use by having it repaired. You said you see few
> > shoe repair shops these days but ther is an abundance of very good
> > repair shops that offer their service thru the internet--some even
> > provide pre-paid mailing bags!
>
> I have two pairs of dress shoes that I got 6 years ago for about
> $250 each. My walking pattern is very hard on shoes and about every 18
> months I need new soles and heels. The local shoe repair place charge
> $40 and they come back looking almost new.
> Every so often I visit a shoe shine stand downtown. For $5 he
> spends at least 10 minutes including applying stuff by hand.

The shoe repair industry has done studies that demonstrate --a good
pair of shoes that is well cared for can be resoled as many as 7 times
(perhaps more if you are using a highly skilled shop) before the
uppers are worn to badly to justify repair---using the math--you will
get sticker shock for sure when finally buying a replacement pair!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: save money with on-line shopping
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a009d0dccbb13d96?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 7:18 am
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 5, 9:30 pm, "matthew.parker.gr...@gmail.com"
<matthew.parker.gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is a great new web site for Online Business Partners that I've
> found.
> It is a great way to get up to 27 % cash rebate off everything you buy
> online. Accommodation, books, music, movies, clothes, shoes, toys and
> much more.
>
> I did it by joiningwww.onlinebullshit.com- if you take a
> look you will get an idea of what is available and they are working
> hard at getting lots more business partners so the options for buying
> on line will be increased soon.
>
> It takes just 2 minutes to join and you pay only $20.00 - once you
> have signed in and joined (if you want to) you will get your own
> number and you can join up others under you.
>
> You get a $25.00 accommodation voucher to stay anywhere in the world
> plus a whole heap of other stuff that allows you to get cash rebates
> on everything you buy.
>
> Plus you can earn some great cash incentives.
>
> You need to be referred to the site to be able to join.
> My Business ID Number is: 100-004-462
>
> Thanks,
> Matthew.

I didn't see anything that I couldn't do better on myself without
paying you/whoever $20.
I'll be sure to clean my computer before shutting down too.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal living may entail remaining smart and productive with age.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4c3aa74184d732e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 7:25 am
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 4, 5:24 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> This is my situation at least, early on I decided to work to the
> bloody end... as over work, or getting involved in pure investments
> (no production) in order to have money were counter productive.
>
> ***
> It may be this that inhibits working at higher compensation rates into
> old age....
>
> occurring in just the last half a generation or so in the US and much
> of developed Europe... the practice of industrial beef farming, in
> pens, feeding grains instead of the natural grass feed.
>
> It seems that free range *grass fed beef produces meat dominated by
> omega 3 fatty acids, those are soluble and do not clogg ones brain and
> ass with huge globbs of fat... that is because the highly acid stomach
> that processes *grain in a cow becomes *acid when fed grain, that
> results in non soluble fat production, and almost a total dirth of
> omega 3 fat production.
>
> (for fully accurate information you can search this breaking news on
> google).
>
> Now we have salmon, very high in Omega 3 fatty acids being raised in
> pens, and fed *grain... Eliminating a high percentage of their natural
> Omega 3's. The beef and salmon are also fed hormones so they gain
> weight faster. .. you get those same hormones when you eat the meat
> causing you to gain weight also... that is accumulate fat, and much
> of that occuldes blood flow to the brain (varies in individuals for a
> wide range of reasons)
>
> This is a superb way to become both fat and stupid at warp speed
> apparently...
>
> you don't see this combination in china or india... mostly those are
> too poor to afford feed lot cattle... their students noted for high
> accademic performance is no surprise.
>
> countries like Japan wigh diets high in wild ocean fish also don't
> demonstrate this combination of problems.
>
> In the US we have concentrated on what makes a person look like hell,
> the big fat ass problem. ... not brain function, we have not even
> seen that as an issue......clogging the larger organs, arteries, veins
> and capilaries that carry blood to the brain, depriving the neurons of
> oxygen at the cellular level...oxygen needed to operate.
>
> fat blubbery asses, and actual stupidity ensue.
>
> **
> Reversal is attained by eating free range grass fed beef. chicken and
> wild ocean fish, esp salmon... fresh green salads and fruit. Hormone
> free dairy products, and much less grain than usual... and working out
> 30 minutes a day...
>
> in about 3 months the results will be near miraculous, and after a
> year or two you may notice a marked resurgence of intelligence...
>
> in my case for instance, I'm an engineer, 40 years in the business,
> designing and building complex controls systems, very complex wiring
> and controls algorithms... this used to be more than a complete
> challenge for me, and I had to painstakingly draw out a wiring
> diagram, worry over it for days, then build it, wire for
> wire..rotely.... because I was unable to keep the entire system and
> logic in my mind and just wire it from that range of insights.
>
> For the last few years, even as I am older ( 67 now) I build these
> systems off of my logic diagrams, drawn in seconds. Then I do all the
> wiring out of my head, no diagrams.. thats not common at any age.
>
> .when its done, I produce a diagram so others can follow if they need
> to trouble shoot or add to it later.... my brain is simply not bathed
> in grease any longer.
>
> (other issues include an amyloid purge, you can find my articles on
> that by google search .... my name as author, no news group, and word
> in subject 'amyloid'. 'or amyloids'.)
>
> Phil scott

In my opinion, you are cramming for your finals by spilling your guts
here, not that there's anything wrong with it.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 11:29 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 4, 5:24 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>> This is my situation at least, early on I decided to work to the
>> bloody end... as over work, or getting involved in pure investments
>> (no production) in order to have money were counter productive.
>>
>> ***
>> It may be this that inhibits working at higher compensation rates
>> into old age....
>>
>> occurring in just the last half a generation or so in the US and
>> much of developed Europe... the practice of industrial beef farming,
>> in pens, feeding grains instead of the natural grass feed.
>>
>> It seems that free range *grass fed beef produces meat dominated by
>> omega 3 fatty acids, those are soluble and do not clogg ones brain
>> and ass with huge globbs of fat... that is because the highly acid
>> stomach that processes *grain in a cow becomes *acid when fed grain,
>> that results in non soluble fat production, and almost a total dirth
>> of omega 3 fat production.
>>
>> (for fully accurate information you can search this breaking news on
>> google).
>>
>> Now we have salmon, very high in Omega 3 fatty acids being raised in
>> pens, and fed *grain... Eliminating a high percentage of their
>> natural Omega 3's. The beef and salmon are also fed hormones so
>> they gain weight faster. .. you get those same hormones when you eat
>> the meat causing you to gain weight also... that is accumulate fat,
>> and much of that occuldes blood flow to the brain (varies in
>> individuals for a wide range of reasons)
>>
>> This is a superb way to become both fat and stupid at warp speed
>> apparently...
>>
>> you don't see this combination in china or india... mostly those are
>> too poor to afford feed lot cattle... their students noted for high
>> accademic performance is no surprise.
>>
>> countries like Japan wigh diets high in wild ocean fish also don't
>> demonstrate this combination of problems.
>>
>> In the US we have concentrated on what makes a person look like hell,
>> the big fat ass problem. ... not brain function, we have not even
>> seen that as an issue......clogging the larger organs, arteries,
>> veins and capilaries that carry blood to the brain, depriving the
>> neurons of oxygen at the cellular level...oxygen needed to operate.
>>
>> fat blubbery asses, and actual stupidity ensue.
>>
>> **
>> Reversal is attained by eating free range grass fed beef. chicken and
>> wild ocean fish, esp salmon... fresh green salads and fruit.
>> Hormone free dairy products, and much less grain than usual... and
>> working out 30 minutes a day...
>>
>> in about 3 months the results will be near miraculous, and after a
>> year or two you may notice a marked resurgence of intelligence...
>>
>> in my case for instance, I'm an engineer, 40 years in the business,
>> designing and building complex controls systems, very complex wiring
>> and controls algorithms... this used to be more than a complete
>> challenge for me, and I had to painstakingly draw out a wiring
>> diagram, worry over it for days, then build it, wire for
>> wire..rotely.... because I was unable to keep the entire system and
>> logic in my mind and just wire it from that range of insights.
>>
>> For the last few years, even as I am older ( 67 now) I build these
>> systems off of my logic diagrams, drawn in seconds. Then I do all
>> the wiring out of my head, no diagrams.. thats not common at any
>> age.
>>
>> .when its done, I produce a diagram so others can follow if they need
>> to trouble shoot or add to it later.... my brain is simply not bathed
>> in grease any longer.
>>
>> (other issues include an amyloid purge, you can find my articles on
>> that by google search .... my name as author, no news group, and
>> word in subject 'amyloid'. 'or amyloids'.)
>>
>> Phil scott
>
> In my opinion, you are cramming for your finals by spilling your guts
> here, not that there's anything wrong with it.

Just goes to show what your opinion is worth then doesnt it ?

Have a look at this loon's history sometime.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 2:55 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 6, 2:29 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 4, 5:24 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> >> This is my situation at least, early on I decided to work to the
> >> bloody end... as over work, or getting involved in pure investments
> >> (no production) in order to have money were counter productive.
>
> >> ***
> >> It may be this that inhibits working at higher compensation rates
> >> into old age....
>
> >> occurring in just the last half a generation or so in the US and
> >> much of developed Europe... the practice of industrial beef farming,
> >> in pens, feeding grains instead of the natural grass feed.
>
> >> It seems that free range *grass fed beef produces meat dominated by
> >> omega 3 fatty acids, those are soluble and do not clogg ones brain
> >> and ass with huge globbs of fat... that is because the highly acid
> >> stomach that processes *grain in a cow becomes *acid when fed grain,
> >> that results in non soluble fat production, and almost a total dirth
> >> of omega 3 fat production.
>
> >> (for fully accurate information you can search this breaking news on
> >> google).
>
> >> Now we have salmon, very high in Omega 3 fatty acids being raised in
> >> pens, and fed *grain... Eliminating a high percentage of their
> >> natural Omega 3's. The beef and salmon are also fed hormones so
> >> they gain weight faster. .. you get those same hormones when you eat
> >> the meat causing you to gain weight also... that is accumulate fat,
> >> and much of that occuldes blood flow to the brain (varies in
> >> individuals for a wide range of reasons)
>
> >> This is a superb way to become both fat and stupid at warp speed
> >> apparently...
>
> >> you don't see this combination in china or india... mostly those are
> >> too poor to afford feed lot cattle... their students noted for high
> >> accademic performance is no surprise.
>
> >> countries like Japan wigh diets high in wild ocean fish also don't
> >> demonstrate this combination of problems.
>
> >> In the US we have concentrated on what makes a person look like hell,
> >> the big fat ass problem. ... not brain function, we have not even
> >> seen that as an issue......clogging the larger organs, arteries,
> >> veins and capilaries that carry blood to the brain, depriving the
> >> neurons of oxygen at the cellular level...oxygen needed to operate.
>
> >> fat blubbery asses, and actual stupidity ensue.
>
> >> **
> >> Reversal is attained by eating free range grass fed beef. chicken and
> >> wild ocean fish, esp salmon... fresh green salads and fruit.
> >> Hormone free dairy products, and much less grain than usual... and
> >> working out 30 minutes a day...
>
> >> in about 3 months the results will be near miraculous, and after a
> >> year or two you may notice a marked resurgence of intelligence...
>
> >> in my case for instance, I'm an engineer, 40 years in the business,
> >> designing and building complex controls systems, very complex wiring
> >> and controls algorithms... this used to be more than a complete
> >> challenge for me, and I had to painstakingly draw out a wiring
> >> diagram, worry over it for days, then build it, wire for
> >> wire..rotely.... because I was unable to keep the entire system and
> >> logic in my mind and just wire it from that range of insights.
>
> >> For the last few years, even as I am older ( 67 now) I build these
> >> systems off of my logic diagrams, drawn in seconds. Then I do all
> >> the wiring out of my head, no diagrams.. thats not common at any
> >> age.
>
> >> .when its done, I produce a diagram so others can follow if they need
> >> to trouble shoot or add to it later.... my brain is simply not bathed
> >> in grease any longer.
>
> >> (other issues include an amyloid purge, you can find my articles on
> >> that by google search .... my name as author, no news group, and
> >> word in subject 'amyloid'. 'or amyloids'.)
>
> >> Phil scott
>
> > In my opinion, you are cramming for your finals by spilling your guts
> > here, not that there's anything wrong with it.
>
> Just goes to show what your opinion is worth then doesnt it ?
>
> Have a look at this loon's history sometime.

Exactly the point, "history."

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 3:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 2:29 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 4, 5:24 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>>>> This is my situation at least, early on I decided to work to the
>>>> bloody end... as over work, or getting involved in pure investments
>>>> (no production) in order to have money were counter productive.
>>
>>>> ***
>>>> It may be this that inhibits working at higher compensation rates
>>>> into old age....
>>
>>>> occurring in just the last half a generation or so in the US and
>>>> much of developed Europe... the practice of industrial beef
>>>> farming, in pens, feeding grains instead of the natural grass feed.
>>
>>>> It seems that free range *grass fed beef produces meat dominated by
>>>> omega 3 fatty acids, those are soluble and do not clogg ones brain
>>>> and ass with huge globbs of fat... that is because the highly acid
>>>> stomach that processes *grain in a cow becomes *acid when fed
>>>> grain, that results in non soluble fat production, and almost a
>>>> total dirth of omega 3 fat production.
>>
>>>> (for fully accurate information you can search this breaking news
>>>> on google).
>>
>>>> Now we have salmon, very high in Omega 3 fatty acids being raised
>>>> in pens, and fed *grain... Eliminating a high percentage of their
>>>> natural Omega 3's. The beef and salmon are also fed hormones so
>>>> they gain weight faster. .. you get those same hormones when you
>>>> eat the meat causing you to gain weight also... that is
>>>> accumulate fat, and much of that occuldes blood flow to the brain
>>>> (varies in individuals for a wide range of reasons)
>>
>>>> This is a superb way to become both fat and stupid at warp speed
>>>> apparently...
>>
>>>> you don't see this combination in china or india... mostly those
>>>> are too poor to afford feed lot cattle... their students noted for
>>>> high accademic performance is no surprise.
>>
>>>> countries like Japan wigh diets high in wild ocean fish also don't
>>>> demonstrate this combination of problems.
>>
>>>> In the US we have concentrated on what makes a person look like
>>>> hell, the big fat ass problem. ... not brain function, we have
>>>> not even seen that as an issue......clogging the larger organs,
>>>> arteries, veins and capilaries that carry blood to the brain,
>>>> depriving the neurons of oxygen at the cellular level...oxygen
>>>> needed to operate.
>>
>>>> fat blubbery asses, and actual stupidity ensue.
>>
>>>> **
>>>> Reversal is attained by eating free range grass fed beef. chicken
>>>> and wild ocean fish, esp salmon... fresh green salads and fruit.
>>>> Hormone free dairy products, and much less grain than usual... and
>>>> working out 30 minutes a day...
>>
>>>> in about 3 months the results will be near miraculous, and after a
>>>> year or two you may notice a marked resurgence of intelligence...
>>
>>>> in my case for instance, I'm an engineer, 40 years in the
>>>> business, designing and building complex controls systems, very
>>>> complex wiring and controls algorithms... this used to be more
>>>> than a complete challenge for me, and I had to painstakingly draw
>>>> out a wiring diagram, worry over it for days, then build it, wire
>>>> for wire..rotely.... because I was unable to keep the entire
>>>> system and logic in my mind and just wire it from that range of
>>>> insights.
>>
>>>> For the last few years, even as I am older ( 67 now) I build these
>>>> systems off of my logic diagrams, drawn in seconds. Then I do all
>>>> the wiring out of my head, no diagrams.. thats not common at any
>>>> age.
>>
>>>> .when its done, I produce a diagram so others can follow if they
>>>> need to trouble shoot or add to it later.... my brain is simply
>>>> not bathed in grease any longer.
>>
>>>> (other issues include an amyloid purge, you can find my articles on
>>>> that by google search .... my name as author, no news group, and
>>>> word in subject 'amyloid'. 'or amyloids'.)
>>
>>>> Phil scott
>>
>>> In my opinion, you are cramming for your finals by spilling your
>>> guts here, not that there's anything wrong with it.
>>
>> Just goes to show what your opinion is worth then doesnt it ?
>>
>> Have a look at this loon's history sometime.
>
> Exactly the point, "history."

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What cars to consider - with mileage > 40 mpg?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/57768249de21eea6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 7:34 am
From: James

On Oct 3, 8:48 am, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Don Klipstein" <d...@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
>
> news:slrnge8l4s.3bs.don@manx.misty.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <gc15n0$qg...@aioe.org>, Lou wrote in part:
> >>OhioGuy wrote:
>
> >>> Ok, I've got to respond to that. Yes, Diesel is often 30 or 40 cents
> >>> more than gasoline in the USA. This is mostly artificial, due to higher
> >>> taxes that are levied on it - they assume that mostly huge rigs are
> >>> using Diesel, and putting most of the wear on the highways.
>
> >>It doesn't matter if the price is "artificial" or not, the differential
> >>is still there at the moment.
>
> >>> Anyway, you are talking about maybe a 10% difference in price. Diesel
> >>> fuel has about 30% more energy in it per gallon, which is most of what
> >>> gives a Diesel more miles per gallon. This greater miles per gallon
> >>> more than makes up for the difference in fuel price.
>
> >>According tohttp://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.htmla
> >>gallon of gas contains 115000 BTU and a gallon of diesel contains 130500
> >>BTU. That's a difference of around 12% - the usual figure I've seen
> >>quoted is 11%. On the face of it, in terms of energy content, diesel
> >>and gas cost pretty much the same, if diesel is 10% more expensive per
> >>gallon than gasoline.
>
> > Except that diesel engines tend to have higher efficiency of converting
> > BTUs to mechanical energy due to typically having a higher compression
> > ratio.
>
> You might notice that I said interms of energy content, which has nothing
> much to do with the efficiency of converting BTU's to work.
>
> Gasoline engines used to have higher compression ratios, which were reduced
> to cut down on NOx emissions. Diesels produce more NOx than present day gas
> engines as a result.- Hide quoted text -

The new diesels coming out, like the Mercdes Benz Bluetec (also in the
Jeep Grand Cherokee), VW Clean Diesel etc have a method to reduce NOx
to better than gasoline levels - thought in the case of Bluetec there
is an additive you have to use - not expensive but it means you have
to keep going back to the dealer every third or fourth oil change. The
savings in fuel costs versus a V8 gas engine might be worth it.

The new diesel standards apply now, this obviously doesn't help if
you want to buy an older vehicle.

James

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 9:13 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <gc54b2$7uu$1@aioe.org>, Lou wrote:
>
>"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
>news:slrnge8l4s.3bs.don@manx.misty.com...
>> In article <gc15n0$qg8$1@aioe.org>, Lou wrote in part:
>>>OhioGuy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ok, I've got to respond to that. Yes, Diesel is often 30 or 40 cents
>>>> more than gasoline in the USA. This is mostly artificial, due to higher
>>>> taxes that are levied on it - they assume that mostly huge rigs are
>>>> using Diesel, and putting most of the wear on the highways.
>>>
>>>It doesn't matter if the price is "artificial" or not, the differential
>>>is still there at the moment.
>>>
>>>> Anyway, you are talking about maybe a 10% difference in price. Diesel
>>>> fuel has about 30% more energy in it per gallon, which is most of what
>>>> gives a Diesel more miles per gallon. This greater miles per gallon
>>>> more than makes up for the difference in fuel price.
>>>
>>>According to http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html a
>>>gallon of gas contains 115000 BTU and a gallon of diesel contains 130500
>>>BTU. That's a difference of around 12% - the usual figure I've seen
>>>quoted is 11%. On the face of it, in terms of energy content, diesel
>>>and gas cost pretty much the same, if diesel is 10% more expensive per
>>>gallon than gasoline.
>>
>> Except that diesel engines tend to have higher efficiency of converting
>> BTUs to mechanical energy due to typically having a higher compression
>> ratio.
>
>You might notice that I said interms of energy content, which has nothing
>much to do with the efficiency of converting BTU's to work.
>
>Gasoline engines used to have higher compression ratios, which were reduced
>to cut down on NOx emissions. Diesels produce more NOx than present day gas
>engines as a result.

I thought gasoline engines with higher compression ratios than modern
ones that can take 87 octane gas (or 86 or whatever in high altitude areas
like Denver) required higher octane gas in order to not knock.

But I do agree that diesels generally produce more NOx than gasoline
engines because of higher compression ratio.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 11:39 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote...
>
> I thought gasoline engines with higher compression ratios than modern
> ones that can take 87 octane gas (or 86 or whatever in high altitude areas
> like Denver) required higher octane gas in order to not knock.

That is true. While the "101 octane" of some of the old leaded gasolines was
based on a different measurement system than the current, standardized system,
it would still probably measure 95+ by today's standard...

A couple things contributed to the reduction of compression ratios: elimination
of lead from gas and EPA NOx emission standards.

Unleaded fuel has lower octane rating than leaded, and the other additives used
to increase octane these days are more expensive and less effective in raising
the octane. Hence, there is a limit to the compression ratio that can be used
without knocking.

Also, higher compression yields higher temperature, which results in increased
NOx creation even as the engine gets more efficient. So, mfgrs have to engineer
a balance of power, efficiency, drivability, emissions and after-treatment
(e.g., catalytic converters) to meet all the standards.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 1:02 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <gcdmbu$k06$1@registered.motzarella.org>, John Weiss wrote:
>"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote...
>>
>> I thought gasoline engines with higher compression ratios than modern
>> ones that can take 87 octane gas (or 86 or whatever in high altitude
>> areas like Denver) required higher octane gas in order to not knock.
>
>That is true. While the "101 octane" of some of the old leaded gasolines
>was based on a different measurement system than the current, standardized
>system, it would still probably measure 95+ by today's standard...
>
>A couple things contributed to the reduction of compression ratios:
>elimination of lead from gas and EPA NOx emission standards.
>
>Unleaded fuel has lower octane rating than leaded, and the other additives
>used to increase octane these days are more expensive and less effective in
>raising the octane. Hence, there is a limit to the compression ratio that
>can be used without knocking.
>
>Also, higher compression yields higher temperature, which results in
>increased NOx creation even as the engine gets more efficient. So, mfgrs
>have to engineer a balance of power, efficiency, drivability, emissions and
>after-treatment (e.g., catalytic converters) to meet all the standards.

Thanks for the explanation, especially in terms of the old leaded gas
having higher octane than we get now!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Diamonds ARE NOT RARE, Whatsoever!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/841d906463da29f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 7:43 am
From: A 'Nam Veteran

In article <p-ydnf70royfonXVnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
Hackamore <hackamore_travel@yahoo.com> wrote:

> St Georges Day April 23rd wrote:
> > Diamonds are not rare, whatsoever! This might come as a shock to a
> > person who has just paid 1,000 dollars for a one-carat stone, but
> > there are enough diamonds in the world to give every man, woman, and
> > child in America a cupful. Although they have the best reputation,
> > diamonds are not the most expensive gemstone, either. A top-quality
> > ruby would be double the expense of a diamond of the same carat. A
> > diamond¹s expense comes from a human-imposed drought rather than a
> > true drought. The whole theory of supply and demand plays very nicely
> > here into the hands of the diamond-governing corporations!
> >
> > http://www.belgianexperts.com/diamonds.php
>
> Hi,
>
> it's true that the price of gem quality diamonds is manipulated...
>
> as a travel agent I see grooms planning honeymoons (the groom is
> responsible for the engagement ring, her ring, and the honeymoon) and
> I've started offering a service locally (Memphis, Tennessee) where a
> groom can shop for the stone he wants, get it priced, and bring me the
> specs...
>
> then I get him 2 stones 1 with comparable specs (but for much less, and
> one with a comparable price (but much better specs, people usually want
> size) and I charge a consulting fee of 100$...
>
> on a 1 carat stone I can usually either save him 500-1500$ or get about
> 25% more size.

What about "blood" diamonds ?
Worth supporting killing?
--
Money; What a concept !

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Calendars. R.U. frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/029c0f2f81b4ee96?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 7:47 am
From: A 'Nam Veteran

I used to buy expensive calendars with the pretty pictures .
Now , I find a hardware store give-away and glue the month part over the
old month. after all its been awhile since I've seen the art.
or you can get a 11 or 12 y.o. calendar and the day/dates match.
anyone that much of a hoarder?
--
Money; What a concept !

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 2:50 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 6, 10:47 am, A 'Nam Veteran <georgewks...@humboldt1.com>
wrote:
> I used to buy expensive calendars with the pretty pictures .
> Now , I find a hardware store give-away and glue the month part over the
> old month. after all its been awhile since I've seen the art.
> or you can get a 11 or 12 y.o. calendar and the day/dates match.
> anyone that much of a hoarder?
> --
> Money; What a concept !

2008, what a concept!
I can't live in the past. You can print a calendar off the Internet
for the cost of paper and ink.
The dollar store always has them.
Real estate and other concerns always give them away.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Apparently 99 cents Only is really a buck now? <33061929-47a8-429f-9142-
c5dbf6692b23@25g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> <c1b05ad4-2f1e-4724-bc62-e071cac7de
17@d31g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> <d3a5dca0-ab0f-4261-97f3-8456f07f183e@x16g
2000prn.googlegroups.com> <DZMFk.3197$be.1393@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c2f5eb4f08fffe6d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2008 8:42 am
From: Steve O'Neill

On 2008-10-04, George Grapman <sfgeorge> wrote:
> Seerialmom wrote:
>> On Oct 3, 1:17 pm, Elliott <elliott.sto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 2, 7:07 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not that I'll stop shopping there but 99 cents Only (sorry...normally
>>>> I'd use the actual cents symbol but I haven't figured out how to do
>>>> alt-0162 on this iMAC G3 :P) Anyway, the store still shows the big 99
>>>> Only but I must have missed the little .99 they stuck on some of the
>>>> signs inside. The register shows .99999 and that's how they're
>>>> staying under $1...sort of. All the shelf markings, however, still
>>>> show .99. According to this USA Today story it's the first time in 26
>>>> years they raised prices:
>>>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2008-09-08-99-cents-s...
>>> Interesting article, although it the price raise isn't really material
>>> - it's still fascinating to see that they did indeed increase their
>>> prices by effectively $0.01.
>>
>> If we were still in the manual cash register age they wouldn't be able
>> to. But since the registers are all computerized it allows for the .
>> 99999 entry which rounds up to $1. Of course this means we'll also
>> pay higher taxes for those in states that have a sales tax. But
>> you're right the increase is not all that important and won't empty
>> the wallet of anyone who shops there.
>
>
> For a business with low margins adding a 1 percent profit on each
> item can make a difference.

Sure, it's annoying to see the dollar stores either raising their prices
or, what is more common in my area, shrinking the package size. However,
it's only temporary; at the rate the economy is dropping into the toilet,
massive deflation should take hold any day now, and that will bring the
"dollar stores" down to "50-cent stores" :-)

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

18 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* The $810 BILLION bailout ... what does it mean to ME??? - 6 messages, 5
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f1371c8463057fd8?hl=en
* $400Billion Lehman Assets Sent Back To Israel Right Before Collapse - 7
messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/96e7c86e25a64ac3?hl=en
* Apparently 99 cents Only is really a buck now? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bf36b60ccb6c13ba?hl=en
* save money with on-line shopping - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a009d0dccbb13d96?hl=en
* footwear shoes(www.ciciaaa.cn) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fd6a07d2fb55a5d1?hl=en
* AIR Jordan Fusions 13 NIKE Jordan Fusion 14 AIR Jordans 15Nike Jordan - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bcc262b5a5008684?hl=en
* Repair all the problems on your computer in Miami,FL,USA http://
computerlatino.com/ReparationandSaveData.html - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3c144e728b48b2fe?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The $810 BILLION bailout ... what does it mean to ME???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f1371c8463057fd8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 5 2008 3:16 pm
From: "Dave"

No bullshit, no hype, just the facts:
- It was $700 Billion, but that was rejected. The version signed into law
recently is worse. It is $810 Billion.
- We don't have $810 Billion, we will have to borrow it from other
countries, like China.
- The payoff on the loan will be a minimum of $1.6 TRILLION. Some experts
say the number is closer to $10 TRILLION.
- There are about 138,000,000 taxpayers (debtors) in the U.S. right now
- The Bailout will cost EACH taxpayer $11,594.20 MINIMUM.
- The Bailout will cost a two-income family $23,188.40 MINIMUM.

Some idiots are speculating that we might make a profit of up to $200
Billion on the money we are throwing at the banks which are bankrupt and
mis-managed. If so, (and that's a HUGE 'IF') this will reduce our loss to a
measly $1.4 TRILLION dollars.

- The Bailout will cost EACH taxpayer $11,594.20 MINIMUM.

IMHO, every congressman who voted for this should spend a minimum of 10
years in Federal prison. -Dave

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 5 2008 4:03 pm
From: Lou

Dave wrote:
> No bullshit, no hype, just the facts:
> - It was $700 Billion, but that was rejected. The version signed into
> law recently is worse. It is $810 Billion.
> - We don't have $810 Billion, we will have to borrow it from other
> countries, like China.
> - The payoff on the loan will be a minimum of $1.6 TRILLION. Some
> experts say the number is closer to $10 TRILLION.
> - There are about 138,000,000 taxpayers (debtors) in the U.S. right now
> - The Bailout will cost EACH taxpayer $11,594.20 MINIMUM.
> - The Bailout will cost a two-income family $23,188.40 MINIMUM.
>
> Some idiots are speculating that we might make a profit of up to $200
> Billion on the money we are throwing at the banks which are bankrupt and
> mis-managed. If so, (and that's a HUGE 'IF') this will reduce our loss
> to a measly $1.4 TRILLION dollars.
>
> - The Bailout will cost EACH taxpayer $11,594.20 MINIMUM.
>
> IMHO, every congressman who voted for this should spend a minimum of 10
> years in Federal prison. -Dave
>
>
Let's see, last Monday's stock market drop erased $1.1 trillion stock
value. If the $700 billion, or $810 billion, or whatever, manages to
steady the economy and reverse that loss, it'll be cheap at the price.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 5 2008 4:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Dave <noway@nohow.not> wrote

> No bullshit, no hype, just the facts:

Obvious bare faced lie.

> - It was $700 Billion, but that was rejected. The version signed into law recently is worse. It is $810 Billion.

> - We don't have $810 Billion, we will have to borrow it from other countries, like China.

Just what happened with the fiasco in Iraq. So ?

> - The payoff on the loan will be a minimum of $1.6 TRILLION.