Frugal Living: Oct 11, 2007

Thursday, October 11, 2007

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Worried about your wedding speech?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0633884cfe5d0b08?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 2:45 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

joshusa wrote:
...
> "Your wedding should be the most worry-free, stress-free, and joyful
> day of your life."

What a load. Does your spam come with the shovel?
What is more important, a great wedding or a great marriage?
Shouldn't all the days after the wedding count for something?

Anthony
--
"Don't Worry, Be Happy" Bobby Mcferrin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LCD power consumption
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b7795a2be395a19a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 1:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
>> Not necessarily. Note the post on viewing angle of monitors. Also
>> note the bit about televisions generally being brighter.
>
> OK
>
>> Typically monitors had higher resolutions (good for text) and
>> televisions had that sexy low pass filtering that was good for
>> motion. Now, technology has changed quite a bit but it still appears
>> that most televisions don't make good monitors.
>
> OK
>
>> It's still a little confusing but I've learned a great deal here...
>
> Me too
>
> You would think it would be possible to make one kind
> of display that is good for BOTH computer use and TV
> use...so that people could only own one device

Yes its possible, but technically more difficult and since most
dont use the same screen for both, its not much of a market.

The other problem is that most want to sit further
away from the TV than they do from the monitor.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Apples
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/408e635a462df7fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 2:14 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:11:33 -0700, shinypenny
<shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Oct 10, 11:09 am, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "I made 400 yuan when I planted corn and wheat," Mr. Wang said,
>> recalling the time in the 1980's before he transformed his one-acre
>> field into an apple orchard. "Now, I make 5,000 yuan. And in some
>> years 10,000." (One yuan is worth about 12 cents.) In the best of
>> times, some apple growers in Lining said they made 50,000 yuan.
>
>Heh. Corn and wheat have long been subsidized by the U.S. gov't. We
>could easily be accused of dumping our surplus for cheap on the rest
>of the world.
>
>So the chinese have learned to play our own game, but with fruit
>instead of carbs. Good for them.
>
>jen

There are no farm subsidies in China. Back in the late 70s the farm
liberalization policy consisted of setting a modest production quota
for each farm to be paid to the government. Anyything the farm grows
beyond this government quota is theirs to sell at any price they can
fetch and the proceeds kept by them. The set free market forces that
not only produced a food surplus for the first time in many decades
but it also enriched the peasants. That caused a problem with the
stagnant wage city dwellers. The situation is now reversed where city
workers with industrial and service jobs earn more than the
countryside. Lots of interesting economic development stories here.

The Chinese government does promote apple growing and agriculture in
general but no subsidies. As the reports show growing apples is
several orders of magnitude more profitable than growing grain, and a
lot less backbreaking too. In China is anything makes money everybody
rushes in to do the same.* So many went into apples that there is now
a surplus and a price slump. But it is still better than growing
grain so we won't see any relief of apple surpluses soon. Not unless
another hot fruit crop turns up. I see this potential as in
vineyards. Grapes not sold as fresh food can be turned into rasins
and wine. Already vinters of niche Ontario Ice Wine are facing ruin
from Chinese "imitation ice wines" that are of course as good and near
impossible to tell the taste difference. (I don't drink alcoholic
beverages.)

* Read "China's Boomtowns" in the June 2007 issue of National
Geographic. Any entrepreuner with a successful idea, say making bra
clips, has a good time only for a year or two. Very soon his
neighbors and his former workers set up their own production
facilities and compete with the pioneer. Whole towns become the
global manufacturing center for metal bra clips, cigarette lighters,
cheap watches, or what have you. The competition and growth is
humongous. No government intervention or subsidy needed.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's red ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ab4eec5e0e4a531?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 2:18 pm
From: Thrutch@Underthewagon.net

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:56:44 -0700, Panda Wallop <marc@rmi.net> wrote:

>On Oct 10, 10:47 pm, Alan Truism <alan.tru...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm all for water conservation, but I don't really care to get his piss on
>> me from urinal splash back.
>
>Urinal splash back?
>
>That's some powerful stream you have there, son. Either that, or
>you're doing it wrong.
>
>"Yeah, and it's deep, too!"

Another good wheeze is to leave a chipolata (or a full size sausage)
in the urinal as well.

Baaaad zipper accident, that!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I found out why they turned off my power . . . Ugh . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04c146e71535a898?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 2:20 pm
From: Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG

In article <0cuqg3l7gcj16tj2hipcnp8lq7e5lal1mu@4ax.com>,
friesian@zoocrewphoto.com says...
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:45:35 GMT, "Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >To make a long story short, it turns out it was an administrative error.
> >
> >Last year, I filled out a form to switch my electricity provider. My
> >complete address was on it. But, when they put my address on their
> >records, they didn't copy my apartment number. Nevertheless, I got the
> >bills for the first 6 months or so, whereupon I prepaid a few month's
> >electric (I thought, simpler to write one check for $100 than 3 checks for
> >$33--yes, my electric bills are that small).
> >
>
> >For right now, I'm hopeful that when I go home tonight, the power will be
> >on. And after that's done, I'm gonna get the turn-on fee waived 'cause the
> >whole thing was their fault. And then see if I can get them to replace the
> >contents of my refrigerator.
> >
>
> You might be able to get them to waive the fee since the notices were
> sent incorrecty. But it sounds like you were unaware that you were
> behind on your bill. You might want to get a calendar program and make
> sure that you keep track so that you can't get behind again.

Or just a regular paper calendar. The bills are generated within
a few days' period every month, so you can just write it on the
latest day that that usually happens. And then cross it out only
after you've paid it.

Some utilities have online billing, so you can check it before
receiving the paper in the snail-mail. I even opted out of paper
phone bills.

Another idea is to look at your bill amounts for the past year.
And then set up a monthly automatic payment from your bank
account (push, NOT pull) for an average dollar amount. If you
also pay them one month's extra to get ahead, you might be able
to go for long periods without even looking at it.

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:18 pm
From: "Lou"

"Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:PmePi.58531$YL5.23389@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> To make a long story short, it turns out it was an administrative error.
>
> Last year, I filled out a form to switch my electricity provider. My
> complete address was on it. But, when they put my address on their
> records, they didn't copy my apartment number. Nevertheless, I got the
> bills for the first 6 months or so, whereupon I prepaid a few month's
> electric (I thought, simpler to write one check for $100 than 3 checks for
> $33--yes, my electric bills are that small).
>
> Well, for some unknown reason, they kept addressing my bill the same way,
> without the apartment number, but someone kept sending it back to the
> electric company. So I never got them, or the disconnection notice.
> However, when they sent someone out to disconnect the power, those people
> knew which apartment to go to.
> I dunno why the power company didn't check the address on the returned
> mail, against the same records that the guy who pulled the plug looked at.
>
>
> Anyway, I talked to a nice lady at the power company this morning, and she
> said they will turn my power back on for a turn-on fee of $100 - $200,
plus
> I had to pay 3 month's deliquent amount of $103. I paid the $103,
they're
> gonna bill me for the turn-on fee. I was nice to the lady, and she said,
> "Let me check to see if the people who will turn your power on have the
> complete address." She looked (on her terminal), and yes, they had the
> complete address.
> So, yes, somebody at the electric company could have checked my address
> against another database, fixed their records, and prevented this entire
BS.
>
> For right now, I'm hopeful that when I go home tonight, the power will be
> on. And after that's done, I'm gonna get the turn-on fee waived 'cause
the
> whole thing was their fault. And then see if I can get them to replace
the
> contents of my refrigerator.
>
> Ugh. Craziness.

Snafu, all right, but then, you received several month's worth of bills with
an incomplete address - you could have called earlier. And if you overpaid
one month to avoid writing a check the next month or two, you should still
have received a statement. I know it's harder to react to something that's
not there than it is to something that is, but when you didn't get an
electric bill, you could have enquired.

It would be nice if they end up waiving the fee, since the whole thing was
due to a mix-up. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:23 pm
From: "Lou"

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
news:470e31ea$0$26337$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Meghan Noecker" <friesian@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in message
> news:ct7rg31v8apr5b537ii1m6v448vl201pbq@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:44:09 GMT, "Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Oh ya, I forgot one thing . . .
> >>
> >>It seems that here in Texas, they can't turn your power off until they
> >>tell
> >>you, in writing, what they're about to do. Since the post office sent
> >>the
> >>mail back, of course I didn't get their message, and it seems to me that
> >>they didn't comply with Texas law on that. Could they have? Sure,
they
> >>managed to get the power shut off on the right apartment.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > They can show that they tried to contact you. Can you show that you
> > tried to pay them? Did you bother to check into why you weren't
> > receiving bills?
> >
> > Does that law state anywhere that they must have a signed reciept from
> > you? How long are they supposed to go without payment. If that law is
> > strictly enforced, as stated, then people can simply return their mail
> > unopened and state incorrect address and have free power for years on
> > end.
> >
> > You were 3 months behind on your bill. Be happy if they split the
> > difference with you.
>
> Just as a caution, I had a related type of problem a few years ago with a
> property tax bill. I'd taken over all the bill-paying duties for an
elderly
> aunt who lived in a different city, and had put a forwarding order on all
> her mail, because she didn't want to receive any of it. Unfortunately I
> didn't know that the property tax office has a "do not forward" order on
> their bills. Furthermore, I didn't know when the bills were mailed or
> due--they publish a backup newspaper notice but that didn't reach me. They
> sent some kind of delinquent notice which *was* forwarded, and when I
called
> to explain the situation were nice about waiving the delinquent fee. It
> probably didn't hurt that it was the first time the payment was late in 40
> years <g>.

I'm surprised. Here in NJ, the stance is that you know you have to pay
property taxes, and they're due when they're due whether you get a bill or
not. If you don't get a bill for whatever reason, it's incumbent on you to
go to the tax collector and pay it. And if you're late, there's no waiving
the delinquent fee.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Restaurant coupon issue - how SHOULD I have reacted?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4082e25278c7472?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 3:43 pm
From: Paul Cassel

OhioGuy wrote:

>
> Should I have done what my wife suggested - simply laid down a 10 spot and
> walked out - explaining that they need to honor what I was told on the
> phone, or I'd never set foot in their door again?
>
Tell your wife that any time she thinks she can do better, she can jump
right in.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 3:55 pm
From: val189

Live and learn. It sounds like you altered the deal, and didn't
ASCERTAIN beforehand what was covered by the coupon.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:08 pm
From: "Lou"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:feku21$h1v$1@aioe.org...
> Yesterday my wife and I went out to eat and used a coupon, which wasn't
> entirely accepted properly. Here's what happened:
>
> My wife knew we'd be a bit pressed for time after she got home from
work,
> so I called up in the early afternoon and made reservations for the food
to
> be ready at 5:50.
>
> We have one of those GM Motor Club cards, which also comes with the
> Entertainment Coupons online. I got on there and printed out a coupon for
> Las Piramides Mexican restaurant. It said buy one of the combo meals, get
> one free. Simple enough, right? My wife was demanding enough to just
tell
> me she wanted something with meat.
>
> When I called to make the reservation, I explained up front that I
needed
> two of the combo meals, and then asked what the combinations were. The
guy
> I talked to could speak English, but I wasn't sure from his responses if
he
> entirely understood me completely. At the end of the conversation, he did
> repeat my reservation for 2, the time, and the meals, though.
>
> Anyway, when we got to the restaurant, I made sure to show them the
coupon
> up front, just like it said to.
>
> The food was good. I had a Chile Relleno, some sort of salad with
> quacamole on a tostada, plus rice and refried beans. My wife had chicken
> quesadillas with a salad, rice and refried beans. The combo meals were
all
> supposed to be $8. I left a decent tip for what the full price would
> normally be.
>
> When they brought the bill, I noticed that my wife's meal was $12.95,
> while mine was $8.95. Ok, I could see the $8.95 - prices had evidently
gone
> up a bit. I went up to pay, expecting to get the lesser of the two for
> free. I explained that I had expected to only pay around $9, because I
had
> asked on the phone for two combo meals. She told me sorry - but the
second
> meal was not a combo meal - it was essentially a combo meal with the
> addition of the chicken quesadillas.
>
> Because the second meal was not a combo meal, she told me that the coupon
> was not valid. At first she said I'd have to pay the full price of about
> $22. I told them no way was I going to do that when I clearly asked for 2
> combo meals over the phone, and expected to only pay about $8.
>
> She then countered by saying she could take $5 off for the coupon, but
> that it would not be "buy one, get one free" like the coupon stated, and
> that they were just "being nice" since the second meal didn't qualify
under
> the terms of the coupon.
>
> I grudgingly ended up paying $17 for the 2 meals - more than twice what
I
> had expected to. I'm not saying that the food wasn't worth it - it was
> good. However, the whole issue was caused by a person on the phone who
> evidently did not understand me completely.
>
> When my wife got out to the car and we talked about it, she said her
> Father never would have paid that much. Evidently her Father was well
known
> for paying cash, and paying only exactly what he expected to pay, then
> walking out. She said I should have at least argued and negotiated with
> them until they either accepted the payment I expected, or I should have
> just laid down cash and walked out, saying that if it wasn't ok, then I
> would never be back, and clearly laying the blame for the whole issue with
> the fact that they have people on the phone who don't completely
understand
> English.
>
> I'm not a confrontational person - but maybe my wife is right. Perhaps
I
> let people walk all over me too much.
>
> Should I have done what my wife suggested - simply laid down a 10 spot
and
> walked out - explaining that they need to honor what I was told on the
> phone, or I'd never set foot in their door again?

I don't think so.

I've never known anyone to order the food over the phone for a sit down, in
the restaurant dinner. Take out, yes, but not eat in. If whatever you
ordered didn't qualify for the terms of the coupon, you're not entitled to
the coupon price. It could even be argued that you didn't show the coupon
up front, since you ordered before you displayed the coupon.

A conversation, by phone or otherwise, requires at least two people who
speak a common language - the issue was caused by BOTH you and the other
person on the phone - apparently neither of you understood the other
completely.

As to your wife's father, I hope you've never told your wife how your mother
was so much better than she is as a housekeeper/wife/mother/whatever.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 3:46 pm
From: trader4@optonline.net

On Oct 11, 3:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Yep, because that alone wont do a damned thing, you
> >> have to have gorillas in boots with guns to do something
> >> about those who choose to cross those borders.
>
> >>> Nice that you refer to our men in uniforms as apes.
>
> >> Thats what they are.
> > And stupid comments like this, calling US troops apes, is why you
> > have the reputation here that you do. And why you have to keep
> > using new identies, because so many have you kill filed as a jerk
>
> Fuck all do.
>
> >>> Really shows a lot about who you are and what your values are.
>
> >> Just another of your silly little drug crazed fantasys.
>
> >>> And in the case of Iraq, which is a war zone,
> >>> who says you need men on the ground?
>
> >> Iraq wont accept the US gunning down anyone who moves across the
> >> border from the air.
> > Really? How do you know that?
>
> They've already said that they're sick of the non military
> goons gunning down anyone they feel like executing.

You're obviously confused. The Iraqis are talking about non govt
security forces opening fire in public, in some cases allegedly in an
over reaction to fire and threats directed at them. Now if they
declared Iraqs borders closed and make it publicly known that anyone
that ventured into these unauthorized areas would face the possiblitly
of being killed, that's an entirely different situation. It's well
know even in the US that if you enter center areas, lethal force can
and will be used. Try scaling the White House fence, or driving a
ttruck through it. What do you think would happen? Same thing
with nuclear weapons installations, Area 51, the list is long.

>
> > And how about if we told them it was either that or we leave?
>
> They'll just tell you to leave. Just like Vietnam did.

Another prime example of your total ignorance. Vietnam never told
the US to leave. They had a peace agreement forced down their
throats by the US govt because the US public had turned against the
war and the deal Nixon made with the North was about the best that
could be hoped for. The South didn;t like it and Nixon had to
basicly force them to accept it.

> Have you the remotest concept of how many Iraqis have chosen
> to cross that border on the way out because of what a complete
> and utter obscenity the US invasion of their country has produced ?
>
> What you propose would just execute any of those that attempt to return.

Can anyone possibly be this stupid? I proposed that high tech
solutions be used to close borders anywhere to ILLEGAL entry. Anyone
that wants to leave or enter Iraq via authorized checkpoints with the
proper documenation can do that. They just can't sneak across the
middle of the desert in the middle of the night. So, if you left to
Syria and want to return on the main highway, no one is going to
execute you. But they are gonna make damn sure you're not a
terrorist carrying shaped charges. Now, can your limited brain,
which thinks brave troops are apes, grasp that concept?

> > The devices causing the most casulaties to US troops
> > are IMPORTED SHAPED CHARGES FROM IRAN.
>
> PITY THAT IF THOSE WERE NOT AVAILABLE THEY'D JUST USE
> THE STUFF LEFT OVER WHEN SADDAM SCUTTLED OFF TO HIS
> RAT HOLE AND THEY DONT BOTHER WITH SHAPED CHARGES
> WHEN THEY BLOW EACH OTHER UP, SO EVEN PERFECT BORDER
> CONTROLS WOULDNT ACTUALLY ACHIEVE A DAMNED THING
> EXCEPT PISS OFF THE TINY SUBSET OF IRAQIS THAT STILL
> WANT THE US IN THEIR COUNTRY.

The supply of that is not endless either. Much of it has been
destroyed or used, and the remains are dwindling And what's left will
diminish over time if you prevent new shipments from coming in.

Now, you want to disparage our troops with some more name calling,
nitwit? Ever ask yourself, why only you are so thoroughly disliked
in this group and need to have multiple aliases?

I'm done humiliating you, so go back to watching your cartoons.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 4:08 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <470e6c65$0$26372$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-1366D4.23153110102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
> >> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

> >> > Then enforce penalties against employers that hire
> >> > illegal aliens. Increase the penalties where appropriate.
> >> > Once there are no jobs for illegals, they'll stop coming.

> >> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve
> >> the problem. First because you cannot possibly stop businesses
> >> from hiring these people.

> > You can't stop people from murdering each other, either. But
> > we still have laws against it and we enforce those laws when
> > people break them.

> No we do not enforce the laws when people murder someone.
> We enforce the law when we catch them, and we prove that
> the did indeed commit the crime.

Wow, way to get real douchy with semantics. The phrase "and we enforce
those laws" includes the entire process of the criminal justice system,
from investigation through arrest, prosecution and sentencing. Your
"clarification" was needless pap.

> Besides, you said that it will stop them from coming.
> It will not stop them from coming.

I didn't say that. Pay attention to your attributions. The guy using the
screen name "trader" said that.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 4:11 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <470e6d4e$0$20581$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-3D6BE2.23071010102007@news.giganews.com...

> > Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any
> > city, county or state that undermines federal law by
> > implementing "sanctuary" policies.
>
> and if they won't be intimidated by such tactics, then what?

Then we've saved a lot of tax dollars that can be used for something
else (or, heaven forbid, refunded to the citizens) and the problem is no
worse than it was before.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 4:30 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

trader4@optonline.net wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> Yep, because that alone wont do a damned thing, you
>>>> have to have gorillas in boots with guns to do something
>>>> about those who choose to cross those borders.

>>>>> Nice that you refer to our men in uniforms as apes.

>>>> Thats what they are.

>>> And stupid comments like this, calling US troops apes, is why you
>>> have the reputation here that you do. And why you have to keep
>>> using new identies, because so many have you kill filed as a jerk

>> Fuck all do.

>>>>> Really shows a lot about who you are and what your values are.

>>>> Just another of your silly little drug crazed fantasys.

>>>>> And in the case of Iraq, which is a war zone,
>>>>> who says you need men on the ground?

>>>> Iraq wont accept the US gunning down anyone
>>>> who moves across the border from the air.

>>> Really? How do you know that?

>> They've already said that they're sick of the non military
>> goons gunning down anyone they feel like executing.

> You're obviously confused.

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

> The Iraqis are talking about non govt security forces
> opening fire in public, in some cases allegedly in an
> over reaction to fire and threats directed at them.

What I said in different words.

> Now if they declared Iraqs borders closed and make it publicly known
> that anyone that ventured into these unauthorized areas would face
> the possiblitly of being killed, that's an entirely different situation.

Pity about all those Iraqis that have a perfectly legitimate
reason for crossing those borders like the immense
numbers of refugees that are the result of the complete
shambles that the US has produced in that country.

The Iraqi authoritys are NEVER going to allow the US
to gun down any of those they feel like gunning down.

Just like they aint gunna allow the US to gun down anyone
they feel like gunning down inside the country either.

And only a naive fool would actually be stupid enough to propose
such a mindlessly superficial an unworkable approach when even
if it was achievable, and it aint, those moving exposives across that
border would just return to the use of what is already inside the country.

> It's well know even in the US that if you enter center areas, lethal
> force can and will be used. Try scaling the White House fence,

You dont get summarily executed by the goons with guns, fool.

> or driving a ttruck through it. What do you think would happen? Same
> thing with nuclear weapons installations, Area 51, the list is long.

Nothing like the Iraq border with all those refugees moving over it, fool.

>>> And how about if we told them it was either that or we leave?

>> They'll just tell you to leave. Just like Vietnam did.

> Another prime example of your total ignorance.

We'll see...

> Vietnam never told the US to leave.

Yeah, they just kicked you clowns out with your tails between your legs.

Thats what will happen with Iraq too, you watch.

The english are already pulling out with their tails between their legs.

Once that fool Bush has been given the bums rush, the same thing will happen, you watch.

> They had a peace agreement forced down their throats by
> the US govt because the US public had turned against the war

Just like it has with Iraq eh ? Funny that.

> and the deal Nixon made with the North was about the best that could be hoped for.

And the US was kicked out of Vietnam anyway.

> The South didn;t like it and Nixon had to basicly force them to accept it.

Irrelevant to the US being booted out of Vietnam by the Vietnamese.

Thats exactly what would happen if the US was actually stupid
enough to execute anyone who dared to cross the Iraqi border.

>> Have you the remotest concept of how many Iraqis have chosen
>> to cross that border on the way out because of what a complete
>> and utter obscenity the US invasion of their country has produced ?

>> What you propose would just execute any of those that attempt to return.

> Can anyone possibly be this stupid? I proposed that high tech
> solutions be used to close borders anywhere to ILLEGAL entry.
> Anyone that wants to leave or enter Iraq via authorized
> checkpoints with the proper documenation can do that.

Pity that the Iraqi authoritys arent going to let most of the refugees
back into the country thru those checkpoints, because they
deliberately encouraged them to get out of the country, fool.

> They just can't sneak across the middle of the desert in
> the middle of the night. So, if you left to Syria and want to
> return on the main highway, no one is going to execute you.

Thats precisely what happens inside the country, fool.

Which might just be why so many of those dont use the official checkpoints, fool.

> But they are gonna make damn sure you're not a terrorist carrying shaped charges.

Just like they did in Vietnam eh ? Yeah, right.

>>> The devices causing the most casulaties to US troops
>>> are IMPORTED SHAPED CHARGES FROM IRAN.

>> PITY THAT IF THOSE WERE NOT AVAILABLE THEY'D JUST USE
>> THE STUFF LEFT OVER WHEN SADDAM SCUTTLED OFF TO HIS
>> RAT HOLE AND THEY DONT BOTHER WITH SHAPED CHARGES
>> WHEN THEY BLOW EACH OTHER UP, SO EVEN PERFECT BORDER
>> CONTROLS WOULDNT ACTUALLY ACHIEVE A DAMNED THING
>> EXCEPT PISS OFF THE TINY SUBSET OF IRAQIS THAT STILL
>> WANT THE US IN THEIR COUNTRY.

> The supply of that is not endless either.

Its plenty to last for decades, fool.

> Much of it has been destroyed or used, and the remains are dwindling

Have fun explaining what gets used to blow up other Iraqis, fool.

> And what's left will diminish over time if you prevent new shipments from coming in.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

No surprise that with fools like you involved, Iraq has turned into such a complete shambles.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 4:30 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5n7bhcFgnmcfU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:atropos-1366D4.23153110102007@news.giganews.com...
>>> In article <470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and
>>>>>> Harry can tell me about what they see as a problem. It does
>>>>>> very little good to hear about a problem if they do not have
>>>>>> a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>
>>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line
>>>>> has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>>>>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have
>>>>> a solution to the problem.
>>>
>>>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem
>>>> either, so telling him about the problem does not solve the problem.
>>>
>>> But according to your logic (or your brilliant boss's logic), the
>>> worker who discovered the problem shouldn't even mention it unless
>>> he has a solution ready to go.
>>
>> That is not what my boss or I said. Problems are just that problems.
>> Problems with a solution that works, become non problems. Problems
>> with no solution, remain problems.
>>>
>>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs
>>>>> for illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the
>>>> problem. First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from
>>>> hiring these people.
>>>
>>> You can't stop people from murdering each other, either. But we still
>>> have laws against it and we enforce those laws when people break
>>> them.
>>
>> No we do not enforce the laws when people murder someone. We enforce
>> the law when we catch them, and we prove that the did indeed commit
>> the crime. Besides, you said that it will stop them from coming. It
>> will not stop them from coming. It "may" deter some from coming, but
>> it will not stop them from coming.
>>>
>>> And just to head off the lackbrain that will inevitably chime in
>>> that he can't believe I'm comparing/equating illegal immigration to
>>> murder, I'm not. Read very slowly and carefully and you'll discover
>>> that I'm not actually making a comparison or an equivalency at all.
>>>
>>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal
>>>>> aliens that they encounter.
>>>>
>>>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>
>>> So basically trader was right: there are solutions, there's just no
>>> political will to implement them.
>>
>> Well, actually there is one sure fire solution, that is to figure out
>> a way, and have the politcial will to act. That is to change the
>> dymanic at work. People come to this country illegally because they
>> believe that they have a shot at living a better life here than the
>> country where they come from. The "real" solution to the problem is to
>> back solutions that will improve their chances of living the life
>> they want to live in the country where they come from....then you
>> would not have them wanting to leave in the first place.
>
> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do that.

There is "always" a solution. There "may not be the will", but there is a
solution. For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
problem. They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually dramatically
improve the lives of their citizens. One solution (though I am not saying
we should do it) is to forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>
> They clearly arent even capable of doing what china has
> done, and even with china, there are still hordes of chinese
> that would move to the US for precisely the reason you list
> above, if the US would allow that, right now.

I am not that much of an expert on what is happening in China, but from what
I have read they do seem to be doing a better job of at least making life
better for some Chinese, but apparently not most Chinese. But China is also
basically a police state, where they do not allow their citizens to move
around the country freely, which I would imagine makes it difficult for any
Chinese citizen to leave. They also have a geographical problem. The two
places I would think that someone in China would even think of going to
would be Sourth Korea and Japan. Easier to get to South Korea, but not real
easy. Very hard to get to Japan.

>
>> The other is to throw in jail anyone who breaks our law and enters this
>> coutnry illegally (you can deport them after they serve their sentence).
>
> Makes absolutely no sense to be giving them a holiday in jail where
> their standard of living would be higher than where they came from.

I was not thinking of giving them a holiday. I was thinking more along the
lines of that sherrif in Arizona, who houses his prisoners in tent cities.
My attitude is don't make prisons a nice place to be in (that includes US
citizens who break the law). If you did that, people would not want to be
in prison. If they do not want to be in prison, they are less inclined to
do what they do, do. Hard labor would also send the same kind of message

>
>> That makes just about anyone think twice before entering this country
>> illegally.
>
> Its a nice theory, but the reality is that plenty chose to leave Vietnam
> etc
> when there was a very real risk of death in the process and you still see
> that with those choosing to leave Cuba in pathetically inadequate boats
> etc that sees some of them end up dead every year.

First of all, you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do...so
let us extablish that as a baseline. So, no matter what you do, there will
always be someone who is willing to take the risk, regardless of what you
do. All you can hope to achieve (if you are not willing to work on the
reason they come) is to provide a disincentive for them to come and hope
like hell that it is enough of a disincentive....
>
> The reality is that jail is no real deterrence for most of them.

Jail is always a deterent. It all depends on what kind of jail you are in
and what you do while in prison. Partial proof of that is to look at the
reincarciration rate of people who have spent time in that Arizona
prison....it is very low when compared to any other major city in this
country.
>
> And a very real risk of death doesnt stop North Koreans heading into
> China.

Nor the East Germans.
>
>> And if you combine that with lousy living conditions, and something like
>> working in a chain gang, it will reinforce the message that this is the
>> price you pay for entering this coutnry illegally.
>
> See above.
>
>> And it would be even better if you increased the time in prison if you
>> are caught again entering this coutnry illegally, and it increases every
>> time you do enter this country illegally. Will that cost this country
>> money to do, yes it will.
>
> It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to just continue to give them
> the free services they get now and wont have much effect on
> the numbers, essentially because jail in the US is STILL better
> than where they come from for so many of them.

that is part of the problem....
>
>> Do we want to solve the problem on the cheap, would be my answer to those
>> who say that.
>
> What you propose wouldnt solve the problem, so its just a much
> more expensive way of doing what wont achieve anything.
>

If you wanted to come to this country illegally, and you knew that if they
catch you in this country illegally, you would be thrown in prison, be put
on a chain gang, live in misearble conditions (yes I know the Civil
Liberties Union is sure to take you to court), would you enter this country
illegally. "If" you knew that everytime they catch you the time you have to
spend in prison is going to get longer and longer, would you continue to
enter this country again?

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 4:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and
>>>>>>> Harry can tell me about what they see as a problem. It does
>>>>>>> very little good to hear about a problem if they do not have
>>>>>>> a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>>
>>>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>>>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line
>>>>>> has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to
>>>>>> the boss, that does very little good because the employee
>>>>>> doesn't have a solution to the problem.
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem
>>>>> either, so telling him about the problem does not solve the
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> But according to your logic (or your brilliant boss's logic), the
>>>> worker who discovered the problem shouldn't even mention it unless
>>>> he has a solution ready to go.
>>>
>>> That is not what my boss or I said. Problems are just that
>>> problems. Problems with a solution that works, become non problems.
>>> Problems with no solution, remain problems.
>>>>
>>>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal
>>>>>> aliens. Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there
>>>>>> are no jobs for illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the
>>>>> problem. First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from
>>>>> hiring these people.
>>>>
>>>> You can't stop people from murdering each other, either. But we
>>>> still have laws against it and we enforce those laws when people
>>>> break them.
>>>
>>> No we do not enforce the laws when people murder someone. We
>>> enforce the law when we catch them, and we prove that the did
>>> indeed commit the crime. Besides, you said that it will stop them from coming. It
>>> will not stop them from coming. It "may" deter some from coming,
>>> but it will not stop them from coming.
>>>>
>>>> And just to head off the lackbrain that will inevitably chime in
>>>> that he can't believe I'm comparing/equating illegal immigration to
>>>> murder, I'm not. Read very slowly and carefully and you'll discover
>>>> that I'm not actually making a comparison or an equivalency at all.
>>>>
>>>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal
>>>>>> aliens that they encounter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>>
>>>> So basically trader was right: there are solutions, there's just no
>>>> political will to implement them.
>>>
>>> Well, actually there is one sure fire solution, that is to figure
>>> out a way, and have the politcial will to act. That is to change the
>>> dymanic at work. People come to this country illegally because they
>>> believe that they have a shot at living a better life here than the
>>> country where they come from. The "real" solution to the problem is
>>> to back solutions that will improve their chances of living the life
>>> they want to live in the country where they come from....then you
>>> would not have them wanting to leave in the first place.

>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do that.

> There is "always" a solution.

Nope.

> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.

Nope.

> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the problem.

Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can
possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there are inevitably
hordes who notice that the living standards in the US are much
better than in mexico and so they move to US if they can.

> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.

There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are MUCH
better than in china, and so hordes would prefer to leave china.

> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to forcibly change the government in Mexico.

Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.

And it clearly didnt work with Iraq anyway.

>> They clearly arent even capable of doing what china has
>> done, and even with china, there are still hordes of chinese
>> that would move to the US for precisely the reason you list
>> above, if the US would allow that, right now.

> I am not that much of an expert on what is happening in China, but from what I have read they do seem to be doing a
> better job of at least making life better for some Chinese, but apparently not most Chinese.

Correct, but that clearly doesnt fix the problem
with plenty of chinese preferring the US to china.

> But China is also basically a police state, where they do not allow their citizens to move around the country freely,
> which I would imagine makes it difficult for any Chinese citizen to leave.

Irrelevant to what they would prefer to do, and plenty still managed
to leave via HongKong even when it is one hell of a police state.

> They also have a geographical problem. The two places I would think that someone in China would even think of going
> to would be Sourth Korea and Japan. Easier to get to South Korea, but not real easy. Very hard to get to Japan.

And very easy to go to Canada, Australia, New
Zealand, and hordes of them have done just that.

>>> The other is to throw in jail anyone who breaks our law and enters this coutnry illegally (you can deport them after
>>> they serve their sentence).

>> Makes absolutely no sense to be giving them a holiday in jail where
>> their standard of living would be higher than where they came from.

> I was not thinking of giving them a holiday.

Thats what would happen anyway. US jails have a MUCH higher
standard of living than where most of them are coming from.

> I was thinking more along the lines of that sherrif in Arizona, who houses his prisoners in tent cities.

Even that is MUCH higher living standards than the slums of south america.

> My attitude is don't make prisons a nice place to be in (that includes US citizens who break the law).

They're always going to be nicer places than the slums of south america.

> If you did that, people would not want to be in prison. If they do not want to be in prison, they are less inclined
> to do what they do, do. Hard labor would also send the same kind of message

Even the sort of gung ho prisons that china has where the beat the
shit out of the inmates and many of they end up dead doesnt produce
the deterrence that you are claiming with the dregs of the third world.

Even public execution like China uses doesnt either.

It doesnt even significantly reduce the level of criminal activity.

>>> That makes just about anyone think twice before entering this country illegally.

>> Its a nice theory, but the reality is that plenty chose to leave Vietnam etc when there was a very real risk of death
>> in the process and you
>> still see that with those choosing to leave Cuba in pathetically
>> inadequate boats etc that sees some of them end up dead every year.

> First of all, you cannot stop people from doing what they want to
> do...so let us extablish that as a baseline. So, no matter what you
> do, there will always be someone who is willing to take the risk,
> regardless of what you do. All you can hope to achieve (if you are
> not willing to work on the reason they come) is to provide a
> disincentive for them to come and hope like hell that it is enough of
> a disincentive....

Pity that it clearly doesnt provide enough of a disincentive
to matter even when the risk of death is that high.

>> The reality is that jail is no real deterrence for most of them.

> Jail is always a deterent.

Nope, not when your living standards are bad enough.

> It all depends on what kind of jail you are in and what you do while in prison.

Even the most gung ho approach to prisons like china has doesnt work.

> Partial proof of that is to look at the reincarciration rate of people who have spent time in that Arizona
> prison....it is very low when compared to any other major city in this country.

Those are individuals who have the choice of first world living
standards outside the prison. The third world already has
MUCH worse living standards than ANY US prison has.

>> And a very real risk of death doesnt stop North Koreans heading into China.

> Nor the East Germans.

There werent all that many of those who were prepared to risk death,
essentially because the living standards werent all that much worse.

The worst of the soviet gulags clearly didnt stop plenty flouting the law
even when the chance of getting out of those alive was never that good.

>>> And if you combine that with lousy living conditions, and something
>>> like working in a chain gang, it will reinforce the message that
>>> this is the price you pay for entering this coutnry illegally.

>> See above.

>>> And it would be even better if you increased the time in prison if you are caught again entering this coutnry
>>> illegally, and it
>>> increases every time you do enter this country illegally. Will
>>> that cost this country money to do, yes it will.

>> It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to just continue to give them
>> the free services they get now and wont have much effect on
>> the numbers, essentially because jail in the US is STILL better
>> than where they come from for so many of them.

> that is part of the problem....

That is the ENTIRE problem that nothing can be done about.

>>> Do we want to solve the problem on the cheap, would be my answer to those who say that.

>> What you propose wouldnt solve the problem, so its just a much
>> more expensive way of doing what wont achieve anything.

> If you wanted to come to this country illegally, and you knew that if they catch you in this country illegally, you
> would be thrown in
> prison, be put on a chain gang, live in misearble conditions (yes I
> know the Civil Liberties Union is sure to take you to court), would
> you enter this country illegally. "If" you knew that everytime they
> catch you the time you have to spend in prison is going to get longer
> and longer, would you continue to enter this country again?

Yep, thats just what happens with North Koreans that get much worse than
that and a real risk of death when they do that on the border with China.

You havent got the remotest concept of whats driving most of the illegals.

There is no solution.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Sample of Rimmel Lipstick!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/28a4fb7422984c06?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 3:56 pm
From: eHDMI

Free Sample of Rimmel Lipstick!
http://www.FreebiesPl.us/?p=162

Here ya go ladies! Try the lipstock for free! Guys, make your
significant others proud :)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What happened to surface mail shipping overseas?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e3751aa3d845f2e1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 4:28 pm
From: "Chloe"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:TjvPi.2021$5b2.1871@newsfe19.lga...
> OhioGuy wrote:
> As long as you can get away with it and you have no conscious .... fine.

Hint: Always carefully proof your posts after you've recently flamed someone
else's writing ability.

Clue: Conscious: not a noun.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:04 pm
From: clams casino

Chloe wrote:

>"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
>news:TjvPi.2021$5b2.1871@newsfe19.lga...
>
>
>>OhioGuy wrote:
>>As long as you can get away with it and you have no conscious .... fine.
>>
>>
>
>Hint: Always carefully proof your posts after you've recently flamed someone
>else's writing ability.
>
>Clue: Conscious: not a noun.
>
>
>
>
Good point - It should have been "conscience". (I'm aware of the
difference.)

I fully admit I have terrible typing skills. I'm guessing my
autocorrect provided that spelling (though I may not have been thinking) .

I'm fully guilty of inadequate proof reading.

(Do capital letters cost more to transmit on dial-up?)

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:24 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:felv58$4f1$1@aioe.org...
> >It sounds like you going to convince yourself of >whatever suits you,
> >but again, media mail cannot contain >any advertising other then book
> >annoucements, USPS is >clear about this, here is a more descriptive rule
> >of media >mail and advertising
>
> I'm just repeating what I was told by a USPS postal clerk, when I asked
> them about the distinction, and explained that I would be mailing comics.
>
> Some comics contain advertising. Others don't. Some contain advertising
> only for other comics, while others have ads for all sorts of products.
>
> But anyway, the difference is really moot.
>
> If you want delivery confirmation and need to ship from home, (as I do,
> since I'm a stay-at-home Dad with two toddlers) your only choice without
> paying ridiculous fees is to ship through Paypal. That means that when
> time isn't an issue, you are unable to choose Bound Printed Matter even if
> you want to.
>
> Take it up with Paypal and the U.S. Postal Service if you want - I'm sure
> they discussed this before setting it up that way. My guess is that the
> USPS doesn't have a problem with it - otherwise, it wouldn't be that way.

just because paypal doesn't offer the shipping method you prefer doesn't
mean
you can just pick any method you want. you'll have to trot to the po to
get it
or choose an appropriate category from what's offered by paypal. or, if
there's no appropriate category at paypal, you need to go to the po,
toddlers
in hand. :)

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:28 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:MavPi.2018$5b2.486@newsfe19.lga...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>
>>"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
>>news:u_oPi.65$uI4.32@newsfe14.lga...
>>
>>>AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>>
>>>>did you contact the usps to verify that comic books cannot be sent media
>>>>mail before posting? you're the one claiming he's cheating. maybe he
>>>>contacted them and was told it was fine.
>>>>
>>>did you contact the usps to verify that comic books can be sent media
>>>mail before posting? maybe he
>>>contacted them and was told it was not allowed.
>>>
>>it's a simple question, but you didn't answer it, so i guess not.
>>perhaps,
>>since you insist on challenging him, you should find out and let us all
>>know
>>for sure, because comics could be a gray area. i don't read them, so i
>>have
>>no idea what's in them. and i don't work for the post office (and
>>neither do
>>you, i'd guess). so perhaps you can check it out, and if he's wrong,
>>track
>>down his location and let the post offices there know that they need to
>>start
>>checking all media mail contents because they have some guy mailing loads
>>of comic books out as media mail. then they'll catch him and you can rest
>>at night.
>
> It's a simple question, but you didn't answer it. I guess not.
> Perhaps,
> since you insist on challenging me, you should find out and let us all
> know
> for sure, because comics could be a gray area. I haven't read them in
> many years, but they always had ads. I don't work for the post office
> (and neither do you, I'd guess). Perhaps you can check it out. If I'm
> wrong, inform us all. Then, you can sleep at night.
>
> For your information, the PO does spot check media mail contents because
> they have many guys mailing loads
> of non media items as media mail. Ever notice the stamp the PO typically
> applies to media mail concerning the PO's right to inspect items shipped
> as media?
> I'm surprised you don't read comic books considering your 4th-grade
> grammatical skills.

what we have here is capitulation. yeah!!!!

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:36 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:eCvPi.2023$5b2.1611@newsfe19.lga...
> clams casino wrote:
>

> I should probably mention that I typically sell about 2k books /yr and
> ship via USPS.

and you complain about some else's grammar?

> Some comic books do conform to media rules, many do not. None conform
> to bound printed matter.
>
> Of course, even the PO (especially inexpereinced clerks) will provide
> conflicting answers as to what qualifies for media rate. I guess it's
> much like getting advice from the IRS.
>
> When I first started selling books, clerks in the local PO frequently
> advised me to send some items via BPM. After a few months, I was advised
> that they had been incorrectly processing my book orders with BPM. I've
> also been told (by window PO clerks) that they will not usually question a
> customer. One used an example where an elderly lady would mail off local
> papers every week using media mail rates. The clerk admitted knowing it
> was improper, but commented that since she was an elderly woman living on
> a fixed income, they overlooked the situation.

for what they make, they need to get their shit together. there's no
excuse
for clerks not knowing the rates or being too stupid to get a supervisor if
they're unsure. so, ohioguy is in the clear until some clerk decides that
they
were incorrect with their info. until then, what you say about it doesn't
matter; he got his info from the source. tough shit for the usps if they
can't
train their clerks better.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My Services
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/77dd01029968fcfd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:18 pm
From: pdoubrava@fmbranch.com

I am a seasoned veteran in the Mortgage Industry. I can help you see
through the Loan Clutter and make your refinance experience the best
you have ever had! See my site below.

http://srloanadvisor.bravehost.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Half & Half frozen?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b936743b9e7d9017?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:26 pm
From: "Lou"

"Boothbay" <harri85274@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1192111826.800851.283700@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Can it be frozen as an unopened carton? If so, would it be any good?
> Going on vacation and have no use for it now.

Don't know, but what have you got to lose? If it's going to spoil while
you're gone, you won't be out anything if freezing ruins it. I wouldn't do
it in an unopened carton though - the stuff will expand as it freezes and
the carton may burst. Put it into a couple of containers, leaving
sufficient headroom in each to accommodate expansion.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fried chicken restaurant GREED!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/32bd80a70aa0741e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 5:30 pm
From: "Lou"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5n6voqFgfra2U1@mid.individual.net...
> I usually eat at home, but was too worn out to cook and stopped at the
fried
> chicken place on the way home. Been a while since I have been there as
their
> prices are so high.
>
> Anyway I wanted a 3 piece meal, which the last time I went there, included
3
> pieces of chicken, a biscuit, mashed potatoes, and cole slaw.
>
> Well it was no longer on their menu! They changed the menu.
>
> The only "meals" they had started at a 6 piece meal at around $12.
>
> Ok, so I ordered the 6 piece meal and asked for mashed potatoes and cole
> slaw.
>
> They told me the 6 piece meal only came with one side!
>
> (The meal was well over $3 more than the chicken only option.)
>
> I said you are charging me over $3 more for just mashed potatoes? You have
> got to be kidding!
>
> They said yes. And they said it would be $3.60 more to get the cole slaw!
>
> So now we are talking something like $15 or $16 to get 6 pieces with
> biscuit, mashed potatoes, and cole slaw! (I can go elsewhere and get prime
> rib for this price range!)
>
> They said they had a 7 piece meal which came with two sides.
>
> I said how about a 5 or 4 piece meal?
>
> No sir! Only 2 sides when ordering more than 6 pieces.
>
> What GREED! Obviously they have designed their new menu to force you to
> order more pieces then you want to get the "meal".
>
> Or raised their prices but left out one side so the prices look the same.
>
> Or make you pay for an extra side for which they charge an exorbitant
price.
>
> I said "BYE!", then went to the grocery store and got a WHOLE cooked
> chicken, mashed potatoes, and cole slaw (deli) for around $8.
>
> I'll stick to eating at home....

Almost always, when somebody sells something, they charge as much as the
traffic will bear. Remember that the next time you want to hold a tag sale,
or sell/trade your car, or sell your house, or for that matter, look for a
new job.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons - 4 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
* Aldi's grocery store: All high carb foods?! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47616010f4850663?hl=en
* Fried chicken restaurant GREED! - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/32bd80a70aa0741e?hl=en
* accept paypal sell sports shoes cloth handbag sunglasse - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6b7c9d346164c0e7?hl=en
* Worried about your wedding speech? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0633884cfe5d0b08?hl=en
* Restaurant coupon issue - how SHOULD I have reacted? - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4082e25278c7472?hl=en
* What happened to surface mail shipping overseas? - 7 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e3751aa3d845f2e1?hl=en

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 11:33 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:470d8ce8$0$32562$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Jerry Okamura wrote:
>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
>>> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
>>> solution to the problem.
>>
>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either, so
>> telling him about the problem does not solve the problem.
>
> No problem was ever solved until it was first discovered.
>
And it still does not get solved unless someone has a solution.....

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 11:36 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-3D6BE2.23071010102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
> trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>
>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> > "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >
>> > > In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>> > > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>> > >> Do you have a workable plan?
>> >
>> > > Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
>> > > until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will do
>> > > my
>> > > damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be
>> > > done
>> > > at all."
>> >
>> > I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry can
>> > tell
>> > me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to hear
>> > about
>> > a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>>
>>
>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
>> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
>> solution to the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If you
>> > believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to solving
>> > the
>> > problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE has to
>> > come
>> > up with a solution.
>>
>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
>> thread.
>>
>> Solutions:
>>
>>
>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
>> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
>> down by everyone.
>>
>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
>> illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>
>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
>> they encounter.
>>
>> Deport those that are found
>
> Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any city, county or
> state that undermines federal law by implementing "sanctuary" policies.

and if they won't be intimidated by such tactics, then what?

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:23 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-1366D4.23153110102007@news.giganews.com...
>> In article <470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and
>>>>> Harry can tell me about what they see as a problem. It does
>>>>> very little good to hear about a problem if they do not have
>>>>> a solution to the perceived problem.
>>
>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line
>>>> has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>>>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have
>>>> a solution to the problem.
>>
>>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem
>>> either, so telling him about the problem does not solve the problem.
>>
>> But according to your logic (or your brilliant boss's logic), the
>> worker who discovered the problem shouldn't even mention it unless
>> he has a solution ready to go.
>
> That is not what my boss or I said. Problems are just that problems.
> Problems with a solution that works, become non problems. Problems
> with no solution, remain problems.
>>
>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs
>>>> for illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the
>>> problem. First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from
>>> hiring these people.
>>
>> You can't stop people from murdering each other, either. But we still
>> have laws against it and we enforce those laws when people break
>> them.
>
> No we do not enforce the laws when people murder someone. We enforce
> the law when we catch them, and we prove that the did indeed commit
> the crime. Besides, you said that it will stop them from coming. It
> will not stop them from coming. It "may" deter some from coming, but
> it will not stop them from coming.
>>
>> And just to head off the lackbrain that will inevitably chime in
>> that he can't believe I'm comparing/equating illegal immigration to
>> murder, I'm not. Read very slowly and carefully and you'll discover
>> that I'm not actually making a comparison or an equivalency at all.
>>
>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal
>>>> aliens that they encounter.
>>>
>>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>
>> So basically trader was right: there are solutions, there's just no
>> political will to implement them.
>
> Well, actually there is one sure fire solution, that is to figure out
> a way, and have the politcial will to act. That is to change the
> dymanic at work. People come to this country illegally because they
> believe that they have a shot at living a better life here than the
> country where they come from. The "real" solution to the problem is to back solutions that will improve their chances
> of living the life
> they want to live in the country where they come from....then you
> would not have them wanting to leave in the first place.

Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do that.

They clearly arent even capable of doing what china has
done, and even with china, there are still hordes of chinese
that would move to the US for precisely the reason you list
above, if the US would allow that, right now.

> The other is to throw in jail anyone who breaks our law and enters this coutnry illegally (you can deport them after
> they serve their sentence).

Makes absolutely no sense to be giving them a holiday in jail where
their standard of living would be higher than where they came from.

> That makes just about anyone think twice before entering this country illegally.

Its a nice theory, but the reality is that plenty chose to leave Vietnam etc
when there was a very real risk of death in the process and you still see
that with those choosing to leave Cuba in pathetically inadequate boats
etc that sees some of them end up dead every year.

The reality is that jail is no real deterrence for most of them.

And a very real risk of death doesnt stop North Koreans heading into China.

> And if you combine that with lousy living conditions, and something like working in a chain gang, it will reinforce
> the message that this is the price you pay for entering this coutnry illegally.

See above.

> And it would be even better if you increased the time in prison if you are caught again entering this coutnry
> illegally, and it increases every time you do enter this country illegally. Will that cost this country money to do,
> yes it will.

It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to just continue to give them
the free services they get now and wont have much effect on
the numbers, essentially because jail in the US is STILL better
than where they come from for so many of them.

> Do we want to solve the problem on the cheap, would be my answer to those who say that.

What you propose wouldnt solve the problem, so its just a much
more expensive way of doing what wont achieve anything.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:40 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> On Oct 11, 12:49 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>>> On Oct 10, 10:24 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>
>>>>>>> In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>>>>>> Do you have a workable plan?
>>
>>>>>>> Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem
>>>>>>> but until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point
>>>>>>> I will do my damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with),
>>>>>>> nothing should be done at all."
>>
>>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry
>>>>>> can tell me about what they see as a problem. It does very
>>>>>> little good to hear about a problem if they do not have a
>>>>>> solution to the perceived problem.
>>
>>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to
>>>>> the boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly
>>>>> line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile."
>>>>> According to the boss, that does very little good because the
>>>>> employee doesn't have a solution to the problem.
>>
>>>>> If you
>>>>>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
>>>>>> solving the problem, then the problem will never go
>>>>>> away....because SOMEONE has to come up with a solution.
>>
>>>>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>>>>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>>>>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>>>>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in
>>>>> this thread.
>>
>>>>> Solutions:
>>
>>>>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here
>>>>> legally for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and
>>>>> it got shot down by everyone.
>>
>>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs
>>>>> for illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>
>>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens
>>>>> that they encounter.
>>
>>>>> Deport those that are found
>>
>>>>> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely
>>>>> with satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the
>>>>> like, we can make it extremely difficult to get across the
>>>>> border. In fact, this would solve much of our problem in Iraq.
>>
>>>> Nope, the cost of doing that is unaffordable and you would
>>>> need FAR more apes in boots than you have there now too.
>>> Unaffordable?
>>
>> Yep, unaffordable.
>>
>>> We're spending hundreds of billions of dollars on Iraq.
>>
>> That would have to continue too.

> It could continue, but the same or lesser money could cover closing the borders,

Nope, not when just gunning down anyone who trys to cross it wont work.

> because if you could reduce the terrorist attacks that are
> primarily lethal because of imported shaped charges from Iraq,

Nope, they'd just change over to using what is available
in Iraq even if you did manage perfect border control.

> there is a good chance the war could be wound down

Pure fantasy. They mostly dont use shaped charges when they
blow each other up and that wont be stopping any decade soon.

> and we could reduce our presence and cost.

Pure fantasy.

> Unless you want it to go on forever.

What I want is completely irrelevant, what you propose just wont work.

Just like Vietnam didnt either.

>>> It will be into the trillions before it's over.
>>
>> That will happen anyway.
>>
>>> And investing in cheap aircraft like drones,
>>> as well as some land sensors is too much?
>>
>> Yep, because that alone wont do a damned thing, you
>> have to have gorillas in boots with guns to do something
>> about those who choose to cross those borders.
>>
>>> Nice that you refer to our men in uniforms as apes.
>>
>> Thats what they are.

> And stupid comments like this, calling US troops apes, is why you
> have the reputation here that you do. And why you have to keep
> using new identies, because so many have you kill filed as a jerk

Fuck all do.

>>> Really shows a lot about who you are and what your values are.
>>
>> Just another of your silly little drug crazed fantasys.
>>
>>> And in the case of Iraq, which is a war zone,
>>> who says you need men on the ground?
>>
>> Iraq wont accept the US gunning down anyone who moves across the
>> border from the air.

> Really? How do you know that?

They've already said that they're sick of the non military
goons gunning down anyone they feel like executing.

> Have you asked them?

Dont need to if you have a clue.

> And how about if we told them it was either that or we leave?

They'll just tell you to leave. Just like Vietnam did.

>>> Anyone seen trying to cross borders anywhere other
>>> than authorized checkpoints can be taken out by a
>>> missle from a drone, an airstrike from a fighter,

>> And the first time that is a car full of kids/refugees etc, there
>> goes any hope of ever getting the elected Iraqis to allow that.

> Who says the "elected Iraqis" have to agree to it?

Because if you clowns do whatever you feel
like doing, you'll end up with another Vietnam.

> Bush has been a complete idiot for this allowing this deference
> to the "elected Iraqis to go on for as long as it has. This past
> summer, these shit heads took the summr off for vacation.
> Any decent president would have told them if they do that, the
> US troops are leaving. So, I see no problem with a president
> with some brains and balls telling the Iraqis either accept tight
> border securtiy, where anyone crossing illegally may be killed, or
> the US goes home. Either way, my proposal solves the problem.

No it doesnt when it wouldnt make any difference to who gets blown up.

Just another mindlessly superficial proposal that not only wont
actually achieve a damned thing except to piss off all the rest of
the Iraqis that do currently support a US presence in their country.

Have you the remotest concept of how many Iraqis have chosen
to cross that border on the way out because of what a complete
and utter obscenity the US invasion of their country has produced ?

What you propose would just execute any of those that attempt to return.

>>> With today's technology, none of that is far fetched.

>> The problem aint the technology, stupid.

>>> What's needed is some shift in budget from fighting using conventional
>>> tactics to alternative means, ie technology to secure borders.

>> Wont do a damned thing about the fools killing people inside the country.

> Again, obviously you are completely ignorant of the facts.

You wouldnt know what a fact was if it bit you on your lard arse.

> The devices causing the most casulaties to US troops
> are IMPORTED SHAPED CHARGES FROM IRAN.

PITY THAT IF THOSE WERE NOT AVAILABLE THEY'D JUST USE
THE STUFF LEFT OVER WHEN SADDAM SCUTTLED OFF TO HIS
RAT HOLE AND THEY DONT BOTHER WITH SHAPED CHARGES
WHEN THEY BLOW EACH OTHER UP, SO EVEN PERFECT BORDER
CONTROLS WOULDNT ACTUALLY ACHIEVE A DAMNED THING
EXCEPT PISS OFF THE TINY SUBSET OF IRAQIS THAT STILL
WANT THE US IN THEIR COUNTRY.

>>>>> If you can secure the borders,
>>>> Have you the remotest concept of how much border Iraq actually has
>>>> ?
>>> Have you the remotest idea of how far the moon is? We went there
>>> and back 3 decades ago. The same technology that did that, gave
>>> us stealth aircraft, and satellites that can read license plates can
>>> surely put in place high tech solutions to monitor borders a hell
>>> of a lot better than it's being done now. The CIA put a missle up
>>> the ass end of a car in the Sudan from a drone, after actually
>>> identifying the occupants, didn't they? And Iraq is particulalry
>>> easy because it ain't a jungle, to get in there you have to cross
>>> mostly open desert.
>>
>> Pity about the elected Iraqis actually allowing the US to kill
>> anyone they like.
>>
>>>>> then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to Iraq
>>>> Pure fantasy. Even an Iraeli type wall wouldnt achieve that.
>>>>> and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.
>>>> Pure fantasy given what happened when Iraq army was shut
>>>> down and what happened to all the stuff they had at that time.
>>> If you read the news instead of the funny papers, you;d know that
>>> most of the deaths being inflicted on US troops are from modern
>>> shaped charges that cut through vehicle armor, which are coming
>>> from Iran, not from some left over crap that Sadam had.
>>
>> And if the borders were made completely secure, they'd just change
>> over to using what was left after Sadam scuttled off to his rat hole.-

> Again, obviously you are completely ignorant of the facts.

You wouldnt know what a fact was if it bit you on your lard arse.

> The devices causing the most casulaties to US troops
> are IMPORTED SHAPED CHARGES FROM IRAN.

> You can't make them from mortars, or shells. Plus, not
> only weapons, but terrorists cionducting many of the
> attackes are also coming into Iraq via the borders.

Iraqis that have left the country because of the
utter obscenity that the US has produced in spades.

Gunning those down when they attempt to return to their country
is a GREAT way of ensuring that what Iraqis continue to support
a US presence in their country will continue to do so. What a fool.

> And like our dumb political leaders, you completely miss the point.

You in spades.

> If some high tech solutions were applied to border control, we
> could likely do a better job of securing critical borders everywhere.

Nope, because gunning down anyone who dares to cross it aint a viable approach, fool.

> In the UK, after the latest terrorist attack, in a matter of hours, with
> only a license plate number, police could tell where that car had been
> on many of their highways. That wasn't from reviewing some videos
> my time. It came straight from a database where character
> recognition together with cameras on the highways goes straight into a
> database, with no human intervention.

Pity that didnt do a damned thing to prevent it happening in the first place.

In spades with the london bombings, fool.

Just another terminal fuckwit thats never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Aldi's grocery store: All high carb foods?!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47616010f4850663?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 11:39 am
From: "Chloe"

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:o6gsg3h0ag2gfjln43hg5qb5qfp152f36d@4ax.com...
> We have a local Aldi grocery store that everyone raves
> abt low prices
>
> So I went there last night and looked around. It
> seemed to me that all of this low priced food was VERY
> high in carbs and sugar. many factory made things.
>
> Anyone else have this same feeling abt Aldi's? Maybe
> its just me or something.

Fresh produce, dairy products, canned vegetables, fruits and cupboard
staples, fresh and frozen meats...sorry, but it's just you. You might do
better if you went in with a list of basic foods you use, look to see if
Aldi carries them, and compare ounce-for-ounce pricing. I can tell you I've
never had to use their quality guarantee: I've never bought anything there I
was dissatisfied with.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 11:43 am
From: barbie gee

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Zuke wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, me@privacy.net wrote:
>
>> We have a local Aldi grocery store that everyone raves
>> abt low prices
>>
>> So I went there last night and looked around. It
>> seemed to me that all of this low priced food was VERY
>> high in carbs and sugar. many factory made things.
>>
>> Anyone else have this same feeling abt Aldi's? Maybe
>> its just me or something.
>>
>
> Every Aldi's I have been in have a produce section so I'd
> say "NO". If people want to eat the high carb and sugar
> stuff who is to say they shouldn't.
>
> I'm of the opinion is that it is not what you eat but how
> much of it.

you have to read the labels, but I do that at "regular" grocery stores, as
well. Once you know the product line, it's not that hard to shop well and
nutritiously there.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:57 pm
From: George

me@privacy.net wrote:
> We have a local Aldi grocery store that everyone raves
> abt low prices
>
> So I went there last night and looked around. It
> seemed to me that all of this low priced food was VERY
> high in carbs and sugar. many factory made things.
>
> Anyone else have this same feeling abt Aldi's? Maybe
> its just me or something.

Actually its no different than any other store. They have the junk food
arranged to get your attention when you first enter but have real food
in the store.

The only disappointing thing about them is that the local ones put in
meat cases and now carry the Walmart style embalmed "fresh" meat.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 11:36 am
From: "Chloe"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5n6voqFgfra2U1@mid.individual.net...
>I usually eat at home, but was too worn out to cook and stopped at the
>fried chicken place on the way home. Been a while since I have been there
>as their prices are so high.
<snip>

I don't buy fast food fried chicken unless I have a coupon or it's on some
kind of sale. The exception is occasionally at Popeye's, where I ended up
spending something like $7 recently for a couple pieces of chicken and two
sides. I know food prices are skyrocketing but I agree with you, there are
too many other better options for that kind of money.

The home-town grocery chain's ready-to-eat whole chickens have been
shrinking in size and are often overcooked and dried out. Sam's Club sells a
large, perfectly roasted bird for $4.99, the same price as the grocery's
smaller one. Aldi also carries the refrigerated Tyson whole roasted chickens
for the same price, if you want to keep one on hand in the freezer for those
times when standing in line at Sam's behind someone stocking up for their
restaurant seems too discouraging <g>.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:28 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Chloe wrote:

> "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5n6voqFgfra2U1@mid.individual.net...
>> I usually eat at home, but was too worn out to cook and stopped at the
>> fried chicken place on the way home. Been a while since I have been there
>> as their prices are so high.
> <snip>
>
> I don't buy fast food fried chicken unless I have a coupon or it's on some
> kind of sale. The exception is occasionally at Popeye's, where I ended up
> spending something like $7 recently for a couple pieces of chicken and two
> sides. I know food prices are skyrocketing but I agree with you, there are
> too many other better options for that kind of money.
>
> The home-town grocery chain's ready-to-eat whole chickens have been
> shrinking in size and are often overcooked and dried out. Sam's Club sells a
> large, perfectly roasted bird for $4.99, the same price as the grocery's
> smaller one. Aldi also carries the refrigerated Tyson whole roasted chickens
> for the same price, if you want to keep one on hand in the freezer for those
> times when standing in line at Sam's behind someone stocking up for their
> restaurant seems too discouraging <g>.
>

I went in to a Popeye's last night with a buy a three piece get a two
piece. I told them it was "for here". The clerk looked at me with
big eyes and asked "are you going to eat all of that"? I told them
"No, the two piece is for my daughter" and they were real nice and
wrapped it up in a to go box.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6b7c9d346164c0e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 11:54 am
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:14 pm
From: joshusa

It's great to find a group of people I can relate to. My wedding was a
very stressful time for me which is a shame because weddings should be
enjoyed to the fullest. I worried the most about my speech because it
is so very important and would be recorded for everyone to see in the
future.

"Your wedding should be the most worry-free, stress-free, and joyful
day of your life."

Wedding speeches don't have to be as hard as you think. With a little
research and advice they can flow quite easily.
I've got a blog with tips and advice for your wedding speech, and I
hope by reading it, others will be helped and not have to worry so
much about their speech when the BIG DAY arrives! Check it out at
http://wedding-speechtips.blogspot.com .

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:58 pm
From: clams casino

joshusa spammed:

>It's great to find a group of people I can relate to.
>

Hint - nobody here wants to read your SPAM .

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:18 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Goomba38" <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:q_qdnSJGi497ypPanZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Don K wrote:
>
>> No the issue was caused by you. Your coupon said 2 combo meals. You
>> ordered something else. You can't negotiate for something different over
>> the phone with someone who does not fully understand what you're talking
>> about.
>>
>> When you got to the restaurant you should have clarified whether the
>> coupon
>> would still apply even with the substitutions, before you ordered. Then
>> you would have a case if they didn't do what they agreed to
>>
>> IMO, be thankful you didn't overreact and make a fool of yourself.
>>
>> Don
> I think it was certainly easier for OhioGuy's wife to act all bravada and
> say what he should have done, considering she said it away from the actual
> confrontation.
> I think OhioGuy made the mistake of not clarifying the coupon issue before
> eating...and wonder if he's so cheap (like his wife's father sounded) and
> stiffed them on the tip too? Did he know to tip on the value of the entire
> meal costs before the discounted coupon?

op: I left a decent tip for what the full price would
normally be.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:20 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:p1rPi.3179$wF3.1591@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> On a related note I never buy into deals that require me to show the
> coupon when the meal is ordered. If you are truly getting two for one they
> should not need to know you have it before it is prepared.

i've often wondered if they somehow skimped on the meals that ordered
with a coupon. or maybe they just wanted to be sure there were no
problems with fulfillment.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 1:04 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

> You should check deep in the pocket of your wife's >purse and retrieve
> your testicles, but be sure to ask her >permission first or she will dope
> slap you.

Says the man who never talks to his wife before doing anything. Don't
bring me down, man, just for considering other people.

Seriously, my wife said that her Dad always did this sort of thing, and
even paid proportionally less if the food wasn't prepared to his liking.
While he NEVER let anyone take advantage of him, she said it also made it
rather unpleasant to go out to eat with him.

I'm just not that picky. If the food and atmosphere are good, I'm quite
happy to pay a reasonable amount. In this case, however, the amount I was
being asked to pay was twice what I was expecting.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 1:07 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

>Was somebody holding down your wife so she couldn't
>speak up? Point out to your wife that she lives in OHIO >and not
>AFGHANASTAN.

Uhh ... I think women need to go to the bathroom there, too. We were in
quite the hurry so she could go to a lecture about the Wizard of Oz. I was
on the way up to pay the bill before I noticed the price discrepancy, while
she put some food in a doggie bag and went to the bathroom. When I left
her, even I didn't know about the price issue.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 1:31 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

You know that every Mexican restaurant is pretty much the same as every
other. If you order a #4 at El Gringo it will be the same as a #4

The difference is that the combo meals here are NOT numbered. You have
about 10 things to choose from, and you choose 2. Then you also get refried
beans and rice.

I think several things added to the confusion.

1) They recently changed their combo meals from 3 items to 2

2) They did away with the numbers

3) The guy on the phone finally repeated everything to me A - OK at the end,
so I thought I was getting two combo meals - specifically what I asked for,
so that the coupon would be accepted

4) We were in a hurry, and thus called ahead to make sure the food was
waiting when we got there

5) they kept changing stories at the cash register - first it was ok, we'll
take the coupon. Then it was "oh, sorry, this coupon is no good". Then
"ok, we'll give you $5 for the coupon".

As I said, we were already in a hurry, and I just wanted out of there by
then.

Yes, I did leave a $4 plus tip. I did work at a fast food restaurant
once, so I try to leave 20%. I remember what it was like, just getting
pocket change, no tip, or just a dollar or two.

And no, the only trolling I've ever done was out on Lake Erie, and then
again down in the Gulf of Mexico. I've also had a pet rock, but hopefully
I'm not as dumb as one.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 1:35 pm
From: Dennis

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:20:20 GMT, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
<derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>news:p1rPi.3179$wF3.1591@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> On a related note I never buy into deals that require me to show the
>> coupon when the meal is ordered. If you are truly getting two for one they
>> should not need to know you have it before it is prepared.
>
>i've often wondered if they somehow skimped on the meals that ordered
>with a coupon.

Or maybe they added a little something extra ...

Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:33 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:u_oPi.65$uI4.32@newsfe14.lga...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

>>did you contact the usps to verify that comic books cannot be sent media
>>mail before posting? you're the one claiming he's cheating. maybe he
>>contacted them and was told it was fine.
>
> did you contact the usps to verify that comic books can be sent media
> mail before posting? maybe he
> contacted them and was told it was not allowed.
it's a simple question, but you didn't answer it, so i guess not. perhaps,
since you insist on challenging him, you should find out and let us all know
for sure, because comics could be a gray area. i don't read them, so i
have
no idea what's in them. and i don't work for the post office (and neither
do
you, i'd guess). so perhaps you can check it out, and if he's wrong, track
down his location and let the post offices there know that they need to
start
checking all media mail contents because they have some guy mailing loads
of comic books out as media mail. then they'll catch him and you can rest
at night.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:38 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

>did you contact the usps to verify that comic books >cannot be sent media
>mail before posting? you're the >one claiming he's cheating. maybe he
>contacted them >and was told it was fine.

Bingo. I talked to my friendly neighborhood postal clerk, and was told
that for comic books, I could send them either Media Mail or boung printed
matter.

I was told, however, that if I was shipping anything that was in the
majority *advertising*, then it would have to be media mail.

I think realistically, they realize now that loads of things *INCLUDE*
advertising, but are not advertising. Get the difference? I guess it could
be vague to some people, so here goes:

A flier advertising Dan Quayle for president would be advertising

A comic book that happened to have an ad inside would NOT be advertising,
even though it likely includes it.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:53 pm
From: clams casino

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

>"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
>news:u_oPi.65$uI4.32@newsfe14.lga...
>
>
>>AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>did you contact the usps to verify that comic books cannot be sent media
>>>mail before posting? you're the one claiming he's cheating. maybe he
>>>contacted them and was told it was fine.
>>>
>>>
>>did you contact the usps to verify that comic books can be sent media
>>mail before posting? maybe he
>>contacted them and was told it was not allowed.
>>
>>
>it's a simple question, but you didn't answer it, so i guess not. perhaps,
>since you insist on challenging him, you should find out and let us all know
>for sure, because comics could be a gray area. i don't read them, so i
>have
>no idea what's in them. and i don't work for the post office (and neither
>do
>you, i'd guess). so perhaps you can check it out, and if he's wrong, track
>down his location and let the post offices there know that they need to
>start
>checking all media mail contents because they have some guy mailing loads
>of comic books out as media mail. then they'll catch him and you can rest
>at night.
>
>
>
>
>

It's a simple question, but you didn't answer it. I guess not. Perhaps,
since you insist on challenging me, you should find out and let us all know
for sure, because comics could be a gray area. I haven't read them in many years, but they always had ads. I don't work for the post office (and neither do you, I'd guess). Perhaps you can check it out. If I'm wrong, inform us all. Then, you can sleep at night.

For your information, the PO does spot check media mail contents because they have many guys mailing loads
of non media items as media mail. Ever notice the stamp the PO typically applies to media mail concerning the PO's right to inspect items shipped as media?

I'm surprised you don't read comic books considering your 4th-grade grammatical skills.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:56 pm
From: clams casino

OhioGuy wrote:

>>did you contact the usps to verify that comic books >cannot be sent media
>>mail before posting? you're the >one claiming he's cheating. maybe he
>>contacted them >and was told it was fine.
>>
>>
>
> Bingo. I talked to my friendly neighborhood postal clerk, and was told
>that for comic books, I could send them either Media Mail or boung printed
>matter.
>
> I was told, however, that if I was shipping anything that was in the
>majority *advertising*, then it would have to be media mail.
>
>
>

It's obviously that you have been incorrectly advised.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 12:55 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

>It sounds like you going to convince yourself of >whatever suits you, but
>again, media mail cannot contain >any advertising other then book
>annoucements, USPS is >clear about this, here is a more descriptive rule of
>media >mail and advertising

I'm just repeating what I was told by a USPS postal clerk, when I asked
them about the distinction, and explained that I would be mailing comics.

Some comics contain advertising. Others don't. Some contain advertising
only for other comics, while others have ads for all sorts of products.

But anyway, the difference is really moot.

If you want delivery confirmation and need to ship from home, (as I do,
since I'm a stay-at-home Dad with two toddlers) your only choice without
paying ridiculous fees is to ship through Paypal. That means that when time
isn't an issue, you are unable to choose Bound Printed Matter even if you
want to.

Take it up with Paypal and the U.S. Postal Service if you want - I'm sure
they discussed this before setting it up that way. My guess is that the
USPS doesn't have a problem with it - otherwise, it wouldn't be that way.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 1:03 pm
From: clams casino

OhioGuy wrote:

>>It sounds like you going to convince yourself of >whatever suits you, but
>>again, media mail cannot contain >any advertising other then book
>>annoucements, USPS is >clear about this, here is a more descriptive rule of
>>media >mail and advertising
>>
>>
>
> I'm just repeating what I was told by a USPS postal clerk, when I asked
>them about the distinction, and explained that I would be mailing comics.
>
> Some comics contain advertising. Others don't. Some contain advertising
>only for other comics, while others have ads for all sorts of products.
>
> But anyway, the difference is really moot.
>
> If you want delivery confirmation and need to ship from home, (as I do,
>since I'm a stay-at-home Dad with two toddlers) your only choice without
>paying ridiculous fees is to ship through Paypal. That means that when time
>isn't an issue, you are unable to choose Bound Printed Matter even if you
>want to.
>
> Take it up with Paypal and the U.S. Postal Service if you want - I'm sure
>they discussed this before setting it up that way. My guess is that the
>USPS doesn't have a problem with it - otherwise, it wouldn't be that way.
>
>
>
>
As long as you can get away with it and you have no conscious .... fine.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 11 2007 1:22 pm
From: clams casino

clams casino wrote:

> OhioGuy wrote:
>
>>> It sounds like you going to convince yourself of >whatever suits
>>> you, but again, media mail cannot contain >any advertising other
>>> then book annoucements, USPS is >clear about this, here is a more
>>> descriptive rule of media >mail and advertising
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm just repeating what I was told by a USPS postal clerk, when I
>> asked them about the distinction, and explained that I would be
>> mailing comics.
>>
>> Some comics contain advertising. Others don't. Some contain
>> advertising only for other comics, while others have ads for all
>> sorts of products.
>>
>> But anyway, the difference is really moot.
>>
>> If you want delivery confirmation and need to ship from home, (as I
>> do, since I'm a stay-at-home Dad with two toddlers) your only choice
>> without paying ridiculous fees is to ship through Paypal. That means
>> that when time isn't an issue, you are unable to choose Bound Printed
>> Matter even if you want to.
>>
>> Take it up with Paypal and the U.S. Postal Service if you want - I'm
>> sure they discussed this before setting it up that way. My guess is
>> that the USPS doesn't have a problem with it - otherwise, it wouldn't
>> be that way.
>>
>>
>>
> As long as you can get away with it and you have no conscious .... fine.
>
I should probably mention that I typically sell about 2k books /yr and
ship via USPS.

Some comic books do conform to media rules, many do not. None conform
to bound printed matter.

Of course, even the PO (especially inexpereinced clerks) will provide
conflicting answers as to what qualifies for media rate. I guess it's
much like getting advice from the IRS.

When I first started selling books, clerks in the local PO frequently
advised me to send some items via BPM. After a few months, I was
advised that they had been incorrectly processing my book orders with
BPM. I've also been told (by window PO clerks) that they will not
usually question a customer. One used an example where an elderly lady
would mail off local papers every week using media mail rates. The
clerk admitted knowing it was improper, but commented that since she was
an elderly woman living on a fixed income, they overlooked the situation.

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