misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:
* OT: My personal test of 20 free offline Android gps map routing applications
- 26 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/245df0dfbccb1f4c?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: My personal test of 20 free offline Android gps map routing
applications
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/245df0dfbccb1f4c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 11:14 am
From: The Real Bev
On 12/23/2013 10:36 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 11:56:26 +0000, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>> Can you explain the purpose of an offline map routing program?
>
> To do map routing when (a) you don't have a data plan, or (b) when
> you're far from a cellular signal.
>
> I don't have a data plan on my cell phone.
If you don't use the phone much, T-Mobile gives you a pre-paid plan for
$10/year which gives you ~30 additional minutes which roll over every
year once you've bought $100 worth of time. Talkatone gives you VOIP to
any ordinary phone as long as you have wifi (that doesn't block VOIP, of
course). Not good for compulsive babblers, of course, but perfect for
people who only make "I'll be there in 5 minutes, don't leave" etc.
calls. I've got something like 700 minutes and I'll get 30 more in
February. My greatest fear is that T-Mobile will be absorbed by
somebody who eliminates the $10 plan :-(
> So I have to be a bit more clever about how to get my map
> directions once I get passed, oh, about the end of my driveway.
>
>> I use the Google Navigation app and my issue isn't data usage,
>> it's how badly the GPS sucks the life out of the battery.
>
> Agreed. GPS sucks that power, making my phone hot!
>
> I have to keep my Samsung Galaxy S3 on the cigarette lighter
> 3.1 Amp dual-port USB charger when the GPS is turned on; otherwise,
> that puny battery is dead within a couple of hours.
I can run GPS on my BLU Dash 4.5 all day. I hate seeing remaining
battery power less than 50%, but it's not a problem as long as I can
recharge it overnight.
Worst problem is the minimal internal storage and refusal to use the
external card to store/run apps :-(
>> What is the advantage of an offline navigation app?
>
> Only two that I can think of:
> a) Works for people (like me) who don't have a data plan
> b) Works when you're out in the boondocks
>
>> Since that time I've used the app a number of times when walking in
>> unfamiliar locations.
>
> You have to try the Google "My Tracks" hiking app! It's really
> nice for topographical hikes, like those SMS and I have out here
> in the mountains.
I tried using that, but it seemed to drop out quite a bit. 'GPS Status'
seems to help maintain GPS contact, as well as showing which satellites
are being used, but I have no explanation for why that might be.
Real nuisance to have to wait for the first fix, which takes between 2
and 5 minutes :-(
--
Cheers, Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However,
this is not necessarily a good idea...."
== 2 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 11:21 am
From: Danny D'Amico
On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 19:04:54 -0800, SMS wrote:
> I decided to ante up for the paid version of
> CoPilot when it was on sale (and it's on sale again now
> for $7 for USA Premium).
I just opened up my CoPilot trialware which confirmed
your $7 "Holiday Sale" but I have a question, being a frugal
consumer.
The offer doesn't explicitly state "TTS" (text to speech)
road names. It talks about "voice guidance".
In the past, I've been burned by buying, for example, the
Magellan Roadmate, which had the one but not the other; and
I had to buy a Garmin nüvi just to get both.
So, I learned, if the box does not explicitly state TTS
spoken street names, then the "voice guidance" isn't as useful.
Having said that, here's the exact words of the offer, which,
to me, imply they don't have TTS spoken road names for that $7.
Worse yet, they "imply" that the $7 is for a one-year license
only - albeit - I have to infer that from the blurb below ...
--- begin verbatim --- transcribed off my Android phone ---
Holiday Sale - Up to 30% off CoPilot
Start the New Year Headed in the Right Direction!
Wherever you or your loved ones are driving in 2014,
CoPilot's got you covered. With quality offline maps stored
on your phone/tablet, and clear turn-by-turn directions,
you cna navigate safely into the New Year.
30% off select CoPilot Premium apps from now until
January 6th!
CoPilot GPS customers - Get 30% off (that's just $6.99!)
unlimited use of voice-guided, turn-by-turn navigation and
3D maps from now until January 6th!
Happy Holidays
--- end verbatim --- transcribed off my Android phone ---
== 3 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 3:50 pm
From: "Danny D."
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 11:14:40 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
> If you don't use the phone much, T-Mobile gives you a pre-paid plan for
> $10/year which gives you ~30 additional minutes which roll over every
> year once you've bought $100 worth of time.
I've had that T-Mobile plan in the past, and it's pretty good.
In fact, I had Verizon for my first (analog) phone, and, used
Verizon for years - that is - until they thought it was funny
to restart my 2-year contract under different terms simply
because I had a broken phone swapped out under their repair
plan.
So, I had moved to AT&T - whom I had for a few years - until they
thought it was funny to charge me for a data plan I didn't want on
what they arbitrarily call a smart phone.
So, I moved to T-Mobile, and have been using them ever since,
without a data plan, and buying my smart phones on the net. I've
studied them extensively, and know exactly which Android phones
are the best value under $200 total cost brand new, taking into
account variant system memory, RAM, display, and CPU power:
- Nexus 4 (at the $200 price drop)
- Moto G (orders taking now)
- LG Optimus L9
- LG Optimus F3
T-Mobile also allows automatic WiFi calling when you're at
home, but you need a good antenna inside the house (which is
the topic of a different thread on alt.internet.wireless that
I'll tell you the punch line, which is the Ubiquiti UniFy
access point:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Aelectronics%2Ck%3Aunifi+access+point&keywords=unifi+access+point&ie=UTF8&qid=1387842268
> Talkatone gives you VOIP to any ordinary phone as long
> as you have wifi
I have Talkatone but the only time *I* use it is when
my niece, studying overseas, uses it to call from her
cell phone to mine. College kids always know how to save
money!
> My greatest fear is that T-Mobile will be absorbed by
> somebody who eliminates the $10 plan :-(
When I switched from AT&T to T-Mobile, I was worried AT&T
would swallow T-Mobile and we'd lose the ability to to not
have to have a data plan!
== 4 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 4:04 pm
From: sms
On 12/23/2013 10:17 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 19:04:54 -0800, SMS wrote:
>
>> No one calls the actual road G2 (the county road number), it's
>> Lawrence Expressway, and if you asked 100 people where road G2
>> is probably only two or three would know.
>
> Hi SMS,
> Long time, no see. (Someday, we should meet, face to face,
> mano e mano)...
>
> Anyway ...
>
> I know Lawrence Expressway rather well, having worked at NSM
> in my earlier days, over by Kifer. I agree. Nobody would call
> it G2, just like nobody in California seems to know what a
> mile marker is nor what an exit number is (nor the direction
> that all exits count in). They *do* call it "the" 101, though.
> :)
I was at NSM for many years too, 1993-2000. And I never use "the." I'm
not from Southern California.
> SMS:
> I have one bit of confusion about CoPilot speech.
> It seemed to me, that during my 14-day trial, it only spoke
> spoken directions (i.e., turn left, turn right, etc.); but
> not TTS road names (i.e., turn left onto G2, turn right onto
> Lawrence Expressway, etc.).
Interesting you should mention that because I found that on my tablet it
speaks street names and my phone it doesn't. I need to check that again
as perhaps a recent update removed the TTS.
== 5 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 5:27 pm
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:00:42 -0500, Art Todesco <actodesco@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>On 12/23/2013 6:56 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> Danny D'Amico <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:
>>> Wholly OT: I will respond to questions, and queries, but otherwise this
>>> will be the only post on this topic for my friends on a.h.r who may be
>>> interested in offline map routing programs.
>>>
>> ...Lots of good info snipped...
>>
>> Can you explain the purpose of an offline map routing program?
>
>Offline map routing is used if you don't have a data plan or you are in
>an area with no cell service. You typically get the map before leaving,
>using wifi.
I just discovered (having driven 600mi yesterday) that even on-line
routing doesn't require cell service the entire route. It seems to
download the maps needed for the entire trip at the beginning. My
cell phone doesn't connect to the data network when it's plugged into
USB. I didn't pay attention and plugged in the power before waiting
for it to connect to the cell network so didn't have a data connection
all day. I still had navigation the entire trip, though.
>>
>> I use the Google Navigation app and my issue isn't data usage, it's how
>> badly the GPS sucks the life out of the battery.
>Yes, that's true. But that's what car chargers are used for. If I'm
>going to use it for a long time, I plug in.
Sure. The more the phone does, the more power it sucks down. Data
service and the display are big power consumers. My phone won't last
a half hour in navigation mode if it's not connected to power.
>> What is the advantage of an offline navigation app?
Doesn't require *any* data connection. The maps are self-contained,
just like a stand-alone GPS unit.
>> BTW...I was in NYC for a business trip last year. While walking through
>> Central Park, I saw a sign for an app that allowed you to take a walking
>> tour of the park, with GPS. It opens with a map of the park, and when you
>> choose My Location it pinpoints where you are in the park, right down to
>> the walking path level. Well, a few months later SWMBO and I were walking
>> through a park while on vacation in California. We came to a T in the path
>> we weren't sure which way to go. I opened the Central Park app, which
>> opened with a map of Central Park, as expected. I tapped My Location and
>> the map changed to our exact location and we figured out which way to go.
>> Since that time I've used the app a number of times when walking in
>> unfamiliar locations.
>>
== 6 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 5:51 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:27:24 -0500, krw wrote:
> I still had navigation the entire trip, though
What program were you using for that navigation?
If it was Google Maps, it can route, if you start with routing,
but it can't change that route, nor do a POI or address search
once you're on the route.
If it's some other program, it might have the state map already
downloaded, which is what all the offline programs do.
== 7 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 5:52 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:27:24 -0500, krw wrote:
> The more the phone does, the more power it sucks down. Data
> service and the display are big power consumers. My phone won't last
> a half hour in navigation mode if it's not connected to power.
Hmmm... I didn't realize data service consumes power.
Are you sure about that?
Certainly, on my Samsung Galaxy S3, the GPS consumes the power
so much that the battery won't last 2 hours with GPS running
and no external source of power.
== 8 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 5:54 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:27:24 -0500, krw wrote:
>>> What is the advantage of an offline navigation app?
>
> Doesn't require *any* data connection.
> The maps are self-contained,
> just like a stand-alone GPS unit.
Yup!
In a couple of years, I can't imagine Garmin, TomTom, & Magellan
still selling tons of dedicated GPS units.
They'll need to either go where the money is (e.g., aviation,
military, commercial, automotive assembly, etc.), or, write
kick-butt Android/iPhone apps.
I can imagine the marketing guys saying "We don't want to go
the way of Kodak, now do we?" ...
== 9 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 5:55 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 16:04:20 -0800, sms wrote:
> I was at NSM for many years too, 1993-2000. And I never use "the." I'm
> not from Southern California.
I was in building D. I won't say no' more, otherwise the NSA will be
on to me ... Too bat TI took 'em over ... and Burr Brown ... sigh.
All the analog icons ... dead. Turned into CAD departments. :)
== 10 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 5:58 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 16:04:20 -0800, sms wrote:
> Interesting you should mention that because I found that on my tablet it
> speaks street names and my phone it doesn't. I need to check that again
> as perhaps a recent update removed the TTS.
Interesting.
I scanned the CoPilot advertisement, and, it *might* be that you have
to pay *twice* to get *both* the spoken directions and street names.
It seems, but I'm not sure, that the spoken directions come first,
and, then, if you pay more? ... Then you get the spoken street names.
It's all so confusing ...
What I *do* know is that, in my first 14 days of testing CoPilot on
Android, it did NOT speak street names. It only spoke directions.
voice guidance => turn left in 500 feet
TTS => turn left in 500 feet onto Lawrence Expressway
== 11 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 6:17 pm
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 01:51:12 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:27:24 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>> I still had navigation the entire trip, though
>
>What program were you using for that navigation?
The Google (I think) app that comes on my (Verizon) Droid Razr.
>If it was Google Maps, it can route, if you start with routing,
>but it can't change that route, nor do a POI or address search
>once you're on the route.
I checked the route beforehand and knew where I was going. No need to
update it. Well, until I got is "lost" out in the middle of Southern
Illinois. Dumb program! YOY do they even *think* about routing
people, driving cross-country, down one-lane county cow paths?!
>If it's some other program, it might have the state map already
>downloaded, which is what all the offline programs do.
No, just the normal maps. I was worried about losing data connection
in the middle. Turns out that it doesn't matter if you're not
changing anything. The point being that "online" navigation isn't as
fragile as I (and many others, I'm sure) suspected. It works quite
well (above exception noted).
== 12 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 6:19 pm
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 01:52:16 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:27:24 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>> The more the phone does, the more power it sucks down. Data
>> service and the display are big power consumers. My phone won't last
>> a half hour in navigation mode if it's not connected to power.
>
>Hmmm... I didn't realize data service consumes power.
>Are you sure about that?
Sure, if it's transferring data, it's consuming power. The processor
is also working harder.
>Certainly, on my Samsung Galaxy S3, the GPS consumes the power
>so much that the battery won't last 2 hours with GPS running
>and no external source of power.
GPS, alone, shouldn't take that much power. My next phone (probably
at the end of next month) will be a RAZR MAXX, for that reason,
though.
== 13 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 6:23 pm
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 01:54:06 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:27:24 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>>>> What is the advantage of an offline navigation app?
>>
>> Doesn't require *any* data connection.
>> The maps are self-contained,
>> just like a stand-alone GPS unit.
>
>Yup!
>
>In a couple of years, I can't imagine Garmin, TomTom, & Magellan
>still selling tons of dedicated GPS units.
>
>They'll need to either go where the money is (e.g., aviation,
>military, commercial, automotive assembly, etc.), or, write
>kick-butt Android/iPhone apps.
Already been done.
>I can imagine the marketing guys saying "We don't want to go
>the way of Kodak, now do we?" ...
Any company, if it doesn't reinvent itself will go that way. The
question is when, and are they willing to compete against themselves
(and their sacred, i.e. milk, cows) to delay the inevitable.
== 14 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 8:57 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:19:52 -0500, krw wrote:
> My next phone (probably
> at the end of next month) will be a RAZR MAXX, for that reason,
> though.
I'm gonna buy the Moto G, for a nephew, for a belated
Christmas gift.
The only thing I don't like about it is that it
doesn't have an external SD card slot.
Sigh... Google.
== 15 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 8:58 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:23:57 -0500, krw wrote:
>>They'll need to either go where the money is (e.g., aviation,
>>military, commercial, automotive assembly, etc.), or, write
>>kick-butt Android/iPhone apps.
>
> Already been done.
Well then, we should all short the Garmin (et. al.) stock!
:)
== 16 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 8:58 pm
From: The Real Bev
On 12/23/2013 03:50 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 11:14:40 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> If you don't use the phone much, T-Mobile gives you a pre-paid plan for
>> $10/year which gives you ~30 additional minutes which roll over every
>> year once you've bought $100 worth of time.
>
> I've had that T-Mobile plan in the past, and it's pretty good.
Except for the coverage :-( Minimal inside my house (sometimes none),
but OK out in front of my neighbor's house. Perfect, right?
Fortunately I don't need it at home. Also nothing on my favorite ski
slope, although my friend's Verizon works fine. Oh well.
> In fact, I had Verizon for my first (analog) phone, and, used
> Verizon for years - that is - until they thought it was funny
> to restart my 2-year contract under different terms simply
> because I had a broken phone swapped out under their repair
> plan.
>
> So, I had moved to AT&T - whom I had for a few years - until they
> thought it was funny to charge me for a data plan I didn't want on
> what they arbitrarily call a smart phone.
I canceled AT&T LD when they wanted to charge me for NOT using it.
Ultimately we canceled their land line and bought an Ooma device. Screw
you, AT&T. Been a long time since you were a reputable organization.
Decades.
> So, I moved to T-Mobile, and have been using them ever since,
> without a data plan, and buying my smart phones on the net. I've
> studied them extensively, and know exactly which Android phones
> are the best value under $200 total cost brand new, taking into
> account variant system memory, RAM, display, and CPU power:
> - Nexus 4 (at the $200 price drop)
I think I rejected Nexi because of missing external SDcard slot.
Probably a bad mistake.
> - Moto G (orders taking now)
> - LG Optimus L9
> - LG Optimus F3
I always thought LG was cheesy. Is this a mistake too?
> T-Mobile also allows automatic WiFi calling when you're at
> home, but you need a good antenna inside the house(which is
> the topic of a different thread on alt.internet.wireless that
> I'll tell you the punch line, which is the Ubiquiti UniFy
> access point:
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Aelectronics%2Ck%3Aunifi+access+point&keywords=unifi+access+point&ie=UTF8&qid=1387842268
>
>> Talkatone gives you VOIP to any ordinary phone as long
>> as you have wifi
>
> I have Talkatone but the only time *I* use it is when
Not much use for it since all the people I know have free LD and would
let me use their phone if I had to make an LD call. Good on vacation,
though.
> my niece, studying overseas, uses it to call from her
> cell phone to mine. College kids always know how to save
> money!
I knew somebody who was friends with Captain Crunch.
>> My greatest fear is that T-Mobile will be absorbed by
>> somebody who eliminates the $10 plan :-(
>
> When I switched from AT&T to T-Mobile, I was worried AT&T
> would swallow T-Mobile and we'd lose the ability to to not
> have to have a data plan!
I really hate AT&T.
--
Cheers, Bev
========================================================
If I gave a shit, you'd be the first one I'd give it to.
== 17 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 9:24 pm
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 04:57:42 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<danny@is.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:19:52 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>> My next phone (probably
>> at the end of next month) will be a RAZR MAXX, for that reason,
>> though.
>
>I'm gonna buy the Moto G, for a nephew, for a belated
>Christmas gift.
>
>The only thing I don't like about it is that it
>doesn't have an external SD card slot.
There's that but worse, the Droid Razr doesn't have a replaceable
battery. It's only a couple of years, but still.
>Sigh... Google.
Indeed.
== 18 of 26 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2013 9:26 pm
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 04:58:28 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<danny@is.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:23:57 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>>>They'll need to either go where the money is (e.g., aviation,
>>>military, commercial, automotive assembly, etc.), or, write
>>>kick-butt Android/iPhone apps.
>>
>> Already been done.
>
>Well then, we should all short the Garmin (et. al.) stock!
I certainly wouldn't own stock in a company that's lost it's primary
market. Only a few have recovered.
== 19 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 4:50 am
From: Art Todesco
On 12/23/2013 1:29 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:19:51 -0500, Art Todesco wrote:
>
>> I've been using the google app in my android phone. I've
>> found that in many cases, they give several names of the streets,
>> including common name, state number, county number, etc.
>
> Google Maps is fantastic, *if* you have a data plan
> (and if you're traveling too far out in the boonies)!
>
> Google Maps stink, if you don't have a data plan.
> a) It's a pain to download tiles for offline use
> b) They only last 30 days before Google deletes them
> c) Even so, the program won't route offline
> d) And it won't find POIs offline
>
> So, I still recommend Google Maps for offline use, mainly for
> the accuracy; but, it's only useful if you thought ahead enough
> to download the tiles where you'll be away from data (which, for
> me, is at the end of my driveway).
>
> On the topic of usability, if you have a data plan, Google Maps
> is very usable. The display is large and intuitive. About the
> only thing missing is the ability to easily force it to remind
> you about your next turn, even if it's 25 miles away, at the touch
> of a button, like the dedicated GPS Nav apps do.
>
>> The google app got us back with no trouble
>> Of course, that not to say that GPS apps are totally infallible.
>> Any GPS app is just one more tool in the toolbox.
>
> Understood.
>
> Note that you clearly have a data plan (I don't); so, I would
> ask you what you use when you get too far from cellular signals?
> Of course, you'll say paper maps - which I agree with - but, what
> I'm saying is that these offline apps are still useful just in
> case you go out of your carrier's signal area.
>
> If you needed to download just one app for offline use, I'd
> suggest CoPilot, but, since you don't like it, I'd suggest
> MapFactor as your backup for when you don't have data signals.
>
Yes I have finally moved into the 2000s (this year) with a data plan. I
also do a little RV traveling, emphasis on little, and it comes in handy
when RV parks don't have wifi. I even used it at the Disney World
campground, even though I had one of their cable modems while staying
there, because I wanted to return the modem a day early so I didn't have
a lot to do on the last day there. I use an app to allow my laptop to
use the data plan via wifi. As for the Google app, I once set up a
destination which was about 20 miles away, up a mountain. It routed ok
because I was at the base of the mountain and had a cell signal, albeit
weak. But as I drove up the mountain, I lost the cell signal and, as
you indicated couldn't complete the route. But, once I approached the
town near the destination, it found a cell and completed with no
problem. As you indicated, you are at the mercy of having a cell
signal. The good thing is that when traveling, cell service is usually
quite good on the interstates, even though a half mile or so off the
interstate, there might be almost no cell signal in some areas. BTW, my
navigator (wife) likes to have a map of every area we go. I don't
usually bother. And, the reason we got lost trying to find an RV park
was because it looked so easy on the paper map ... should have used the
GPS, even if only a backup for 'paper' knowledge. That said, there are
plenty of RV campgrounds that have a statement in their ads that read
something like, "don't use GPS to get here, you'll get lost!"
== 20 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 8:05 am
From: SMS
On 12/23/2013 5:55 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 16:04:20 -0800, sms wrote:
>
>> I was at NSM for many years too, 1993-2000. And I never use "the." I'm
>> not from Southern California.
>
> I was in building D. I won't say no' more, otherwise the NSA will be
> on to me ... Too bat TI took 'em over ... and Burr Brown ... sigh.
> All the analog icons ... dead. Turned into CAD departments. :)
I was in building 16 (gone) and then building M (which almost no one has
heard of but it's still there). The strangest building was the back part
of Home Depot, but they finally got rid of that as well.
== 21 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 8:19 am
From: SMS
On 12/23/2013 10:53 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 08:27:26 -0800, SMS wrote:
>
>>> What is the advantage of an offline navigation app?
>>
>> Data usage.
>> Online mapping uses a tremendous amount of data.
>
> This is a good point, which, I, not having a data plan (and therefore,
> never having worried about data usage), didn't realize until you had
> said that.
>
> Q: Why bother with offline GPS freeware mapping programs?
> A: Saves on data usage if you don't have an unlimited data plan.
> A: Works when you have no data plan.
> A: Works when you have no cellular signal.
When traveling outside the U.S., where data roaming is extremely
expensive and even prepaid SIM card data is expensive, it's really nice
to have an offline GPS mapping program where you can download maps for
the area you're traveling in (even if the maps aren't free). Even if
you're not driving in these other countries, and traveling by some other
means, a mapping app is very useful, especially when you're not on a
gawd-awful organized tour.
Incidentally, that's one reason to be selective when choosing a tablet.
The Wi-Fi only iPads don't have a GPS chip, nor do the el-cheapo Android
tablets sold in drugstores for $79 or so. But once you reach the $129
level you can get Android tablets with a GPS. The Nexus 7 has one. The
Asus MeMo has one. We also have two $109 Lenovo tablets that have one. A
7" tablet is also a much nicer GPS replacement when driving than a 3.5"
screen phone. On one vehicle I installed a holder for my Nexus 7 using a
Panavise mount
<http://www.panavise.com/index.html?pageid=1&id1=30&--wosectionsdatarq=30&indashaction=-->,
some plastic from Tap Plastics, and some bits of hardware. No suction cups!
== 22 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 9:09 am
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 07:50:45 -0500, Art Todesco <actodesco@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>On 12/23/2013 1:29 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:19:51 -0500, Art Todesco wrote:
>>
>>> I've been using the google app in my android phone. I've
>>> found that in many cases, they give several names of the streets,
>>> including common name, state number, county number, etc.
>>
>> Google Maps is fantastic, *if* you have a data plan
>> (and if you're traveling too far out in the boonies)!
>>
>> Google Maps stink, if you don't have a data plan.
>> a) It's a pain to download tiles for offline use
>> b) They only last 30 days before Google deletes them
>> c) Even so, the program won't route offline
>> d) And it won't find POIs offline
>>
>> So, I still recommend Google Maps for offline use, mainly for
>> the accuracy; but, it's only useful if you thought ahead enough
>> to download the tiles where you'll be away from data (which, for
>> me, is at the end of my driveway).
>>
>> On the topic of usability, if you have a data plan, Google Maps
>> is very usable. The display is large and intuitive. About the
>> only thing missing is the ability to easily force it to remind
>> you about your next turn, even if it's 25 miles away, at the touch
>> of a button, like the dedicated GPS Nav apps do.
>>
>>> The google app got us back with no trouble
>>> Of course, that not to say that GPS apps are totally infallible.
>>> Any GPS app is just one more tool in the toolbox.
>>
>> Understood.
>>
>> Note that you clearly have a data plan (I don't); so, I would
>> ask you what you use when you get too far from cellular signals?
>> Of course, you'll say paper maps - which I agree with - but, what
>> I'm saying is that these offline apps are still useful just in
>> case you go out of your carrier's signal area.
>>
>> If you needed to download just one app for offline use, I'd
>> suggest CoPilot, but, since you don't like it, I'd suggest
>> MapFactor as your backup for when you don't have data signals.
>>
>Yes I have finally moved into the 2000s (this year) with a data plan. I
>also do a little RV traveling, emphasis on little, and it comes in handy
>when RV parks don't have wifi. I even used it at the Disney World
>campground, even though I had one of their cable modems while staying
>there, because I wanted to return the modem a day early so I didn't have
>a lot to do on the last day there. I use an app to allow my laptop to
>use the data plan via wifi. As for the Google app, I once set up a
>destination which was about 20 miles away, up a mountain. It routed ok
>because I was at the base of the mountain and had a cell signal, albeit
>weak. But as I drove up the mountain, I lost the cell signal and, as
>you indicated couldn't complete the route. But, once I approached the
>town near the destination, it found a cell and completed with no
>problem. As you indicated, you are at the mercy of having a cell
>signal.
I just found that this isn't true, at least for Verizon's Google(?)
app. As long as you don't change the routing, it's fine. I've been
routed through the boonies before but never lost navigation. I
thought I had data coverage in the middle of nowhere but probably had
the same thing then.
>The good thing is that when traveling, cell service is usually
>quite good on the interstates, even though a half mile or so off the
>interstate, there might be almost no cell signal in some areas. BTW, my
>navigator (wife) likes to have a map of every area we go. I don't
>usually bother. And, the reason we got lost trying to find an RV park
>was because it looked so easy on the paper map ... should have used the
>GPS, even if only a backup for 'paper' knowledge. That said, there are
>plenty of RV campgrounds that have a statement in their ads that read
>something like, "don't use GPS to get here, you'll get lost!"
My wife can't read a map. I don't bother with them anymore because
the GPS apps are so good. With the GPS of a decade ago, I could
believe them. Not so much anymore.
== 23 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 9:51 am
From: Nate Nagel
On 12/24/2013 12:09 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 07:50:45 -0500, Art Todesco <actodesco@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/23/2013 1:29 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:19:51 -0500, Art Todesco wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been using the google app in my android phone. I've
>>>> found that in many cases, they give several names of the streets,
>>>> including common name, state number, county number, etc.
>>>
>>> Google Maps is fantastic, *if* you have a data plan
>>> (and if you're traveling too far out in the boonies)!
>>>
>>> Google Maps stink, if you don't have a data plan.
>>> a) It's a pain to download tiles for offline use
>>> b) They only last 30 days before Google deletes them
>>> c) Even so, the program won't route offline
>>> d) And it won't find POIs offline
>>>
>>> So, I still recommend Google Maps for offline use, mainly for
>>> the accuracy; but, it's only useful if you thought ahead enough
>>> to download the tiles where you'll be away from data (which, for
>>> me, is at the end of my driveway).
>>>
>>> On the topic of usability, if you have a data plan, Google Maps
>>> is very usable. The display is large and intuitive. About the
>>> only thing missing is the ability to easily force it to remind
>>> you about your next turn, even if it's 25 miles away, at the touch
>>> of a button, like the dedicated GPS Nav apps do.
>>>
>>>> The google app got us back with no trouble
>>>> Of course, that not to say that GPS apps are totally infallible.
>>>> Any GPS app is just one more tool in the toolbox.
>>>
>>> Understood.
>>>
>>> Note that you clearly have a data plan (I don't); so, I would
>>> ask you what you use when you get too far from cellular signals?
>>> Of course, you'll say paper maps - which I agree with - but, what
>>> I'm saying is that these offline apps are still useful just in
>>> case you go out of your carrier's signal area.
>>>
>>> If you needed to download just one app for offline use, I'd
>>> suggest CoPilot, but, since you don't like it, I'd suggest
>>> MapFactor as your backup for when you don't have data signals.
>>>
>> Yes I have finally moved into the 2000s (this year) with a data plan. I
>> also do a little RV traveling, emphasis on little, and it comes in handy
>> when RV parks don't have wifi. I even used it at the Disney World
>> campground, even though I had one of their cable modems while staying
>> there, because I wanted to return the modem a day early so I didn't have
>> a lot to do on the last day there. I use an app to allow my laptop to
>> use the data plan via wifi. As for the Google app, I once set up a
>> destination which was about 20 miles away, up a mountain. It routed ok
>> because I was at the base of the mountain and had a cell signal, albeit
>> weak. But as I drove up the mountain, I lost the cell signal and, as
>> you indicated couldn't complete the route. But, once I approached the
>> town near the destination, it found a cell and completed with no
>> problem. As you indicated, you are at the mercy of having a cell
>> signal.
>
> I just found that this isn't true, at least for Verizon's Google(?)
> app. As long as you don't change the routing, it's fine. I've been
> routed through the boonies before but never lost navigation. I
> thought I had data coverage in the middle of nowhere but probably had
> the same thing then.
>
>> The good thing is that when traveling, cell service is usually
>> quite good on the interstates, even though a half mile or so off the
>> interstate, there might be almost no cell signal in some areas. BTW, my
>> navigator (wife) likes to have a map of every area we go. I don't
>> usually bother. And, the reason we got lost trying to find an RV park
>> was because it looked so easy on the paper map ... should have used the
>> GPS, even if only a backup for 'paper' knowledge. That said, there are
>> plenty of RV campgrounds that have a statement in their ads that read
>> something like, "don't use GPS to get here, you'll get lost!"
>
> My wife can't read a map. I don't bother with them anymore because
> the GPS apps are so good. With the GPS of a decade ago, I could
> believe them. Not so much anymore.
>
GPS systems are getting better, but the maps are still quite inaccurate
in some areas.
"online" maps like Google or even Waze's crowdsourced stuff is better,
but even then there can be problems e.g. I had an issue trying to find a
local store because Bing search results for that store had a nonexistent
street name for the address and instead of Waze coughing it sent me to
the geographic center of that zip code.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
== 24 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 11:21 am
From: krw@attt.bizz
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:51:24 -0500, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net>
wrote:
>On 12/24/2013 12:09 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 07:50:45 -0500, Art Todesco <actodesco@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/23/2013 1:29 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:19:51 -0500, Art Todesco wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been using the google app in my android phone. I've
>>>>> found that in many cases, they give several names of the streets,
>>>>> including common name, state number, county number, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Google Maps is fantastic, *if* you have a data plan
>>>> (and if you're traveling too far out in the boonies)!
>>>>
>>>> Google Maps stink, if you don't have a data plan.
>>>> a) It's a pain to download tiles for offline use
>>>> b) They only last 30 days before Google deletes them
>>>> c) Even so, the program won't route offline
>>>> d) And it won't find POIs offline
>>>>
>>>> So, I still recommend Google Maps for offline use, mainly for
>>>> the accuracy; but, it's only useful if you thought ahead enough
>>>> to download the tiles where you'll be away from data (which, for
>>>> me, is at the end of my driveway).
>>>>
>>>> On the topic of usability, if you have a data plan, Google Maps
>>>> is very usable. The display is large and intuitive. About the
>>>> only thing missing is the ability to easily force it to remind
>>>> you about your next turn, even if it's 25 miles away, at the touch
>>>> of a button, like the dedicated GPS Nav apps do.
>>>>
>>>>> The google app got us back with no trouble
>>>>> Of course, that not to say that GPS apps are totally infallible.
>>>>> Any GPS app is just one more tool in the toolbox.
>>>>
>>>> Understood.
>>>>
>>>> Note that you clearly have a data plan (I don't); so, I would
>>>> ask you what you use when you get too far from cellular signals?
>>>> Of course, you'll say paper maps - which I agree with - but, what
>>>> I'm saying is that these offline apps are still useful just in
>>>> case you go out of your carrier's signal area.
>>>>
>>>> If you needed to download just one app for offline use, I'd
>>>> suggest CoPilot, but, since you don't like it, I'd suggest
>>>> MapFactor as your backup for when you don't have data signals.
>>>>
>>> Yes I have finally moved into the 2000s (this year) with a data plan. I
>>> also do a little RV traveling, emphasis on little, and it comes in handy
>>> when RV parks don't have wifi. I even used it at the Disney World
>>> campground, even though I had one of their cable modems while staying
>>> there, because I wanted to return the modem a day early so I didn't have
>>> a lot to do on the last day there. I use an app to allow my laptop to
>>> use the data plan via wifi. As for the Google app, I once set up a
>>> destination which was about 20 miles away, up a mountain. It routed ok
>>> because I was at the base of the mountain and had a cell signal, albeit
>>> weak. But as I drove up the mountain, I lost the cell signal and, as
>>> you indicated couldn't complete the route. But, once I approached the
>>> town near the destination, it found a cell and completed with no
>>> problem. As you indicated, you are at the mercy of having a cell
>>> signal.
>>
>> I just found that this isn't true, at least for Verizon's Google(?)
>> app. As long as you don't change the routing, it's fine. I've been
>> routed through the boonies before but never lost navigation. I
>> thought I had data coverage in the middle of nowhere but probably had
>> the same thing then.
>>
>>> The good thing is that when traveling, cell service is usually
>>> quite good on the interstates, even though a half mile or so off the
>>> interstate, there might be almost no cell signal in some areas. BTW, my
>>> navigator (wife) likes to have a map of every area we go. I don't
>>> usually bother. And, the reason we got lost trying to find an RV park
>>> was because it looked so easy on the paper map ... should have used the
>>> GPS, even if only a backup for 'paper' knowledge. That said, there are
>>> plenty of RV campgrounds that have a statement in their ads that read
>>> something like, "don't use GPS to get here, you'll get lost!"
>>
>> My wife can't read a map. I don't bother with them anymore because
>> the GPS apps are so good. With the GPS of a decade ago, I could
>> believe them. Not so much anymore.
>>
>
>GPS systems are getting better, but the maps are still quite inaccurate
>in some areas.
That statement implies that they all get their information from the
same place, which is nonsense.
>"online" maps like Google or even Waze's crowdsourced stuff is better,
>but even then there can be problems e.g. I had an issue trying to find a
>local store because Bing search results for that store had a nonexistent
>street name for the address and instead of Waze coughing it sent me to
>the geographic center of that zip code.
When we were house hunting (couple of years ago), several of the
mapping companies couldn't find various houses (including the one we
were/are selling). The free Verizon app found them all.
== 25 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 12:14 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 07:50:45 -0500, Art Todesco wrote:
> Yes I have finally moved into the 2000s (this year) with a data plan.
I've got nothing against data plans, but, I'm retired, and spend
99% of my time at home, where I have WiFi.
So, I have all the data I want, except when driving, and I have free
unlimited minutes in effect, because of automatic WiFi calling.
> I use an app to allow my laptop to use the data plan via wifi.
Hmmm... I didn't think you need an app to use WiFi data.
> As you indicated, you are at the mercy of having a cell signal.
That's why I think everyone should, at least, put CoPilot on
their cellphone, even if they do have a data plan. Or Navigator.
Either one will work fine if/when they're out of cellular signal.
> BTW, my navigator (wife) likes to have a map of every area we go.
I recently asked AAA if they still give out maps and the guy
told me he didn't notice any change in the number of maps
sent out. I've got the entire state of California covered,
but, they're all (still) brand new.
> "don't use GPS to get here, you'll get lost!"
Heh heh ... GPS is like following the leader. If you know
better, don't follow. Otherwise, if you don't have a clue,
then follow at your own risk.
== 26 of 26 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 24 2013 12:15 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 00:24:01 -0500, krw wrote:
> the Droid Razr doesn't have a replaceable
> battery. It's only a couple of years, but still.
That's criminal. I always faulted the iPhone for that.
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