Frugal Living: Sep 22, 2008

Monday, September 22, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A national mortgage payment boycott would discipline the rotten banking
industry.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2722c3b7b41085ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 11:02 am
From: Bert Hyman

hpope@lycos.com () wrote in
news:cdab59dd-8f41-49b5-82ff-42c6f8b876a1@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

> If just 20% of mortgage holders withheld their payments for say two
> months the banking swine
> would be on their knees. Such a boycott would need big-name support.
> Be a nice project
> for early next year.

Stop paying your credit card bills too.

You should also walk out of restaurants without paying your bill.

Drive off from the gas station without paying.

Take your purchases out of the grocery store without paying.

Lots of other protests suggest themselves here.

Tell us how it works out for you.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Misc Grocery Shopping
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f3f2c0470017f630?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 11:16 am
From: SMS

Twice Retired wrote:
> There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items
> included tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee
> creamer. I purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The
> results:
> 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> 2. Small local $31.62
> 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.

Yes, milk pricing can be bizarre. A lot of stores around me (California)
claim to sell milk for the minimum price the state allows, which is
around $2.65 a gallon for low fat (this week) if you buy two gallons at
a time. Even 7-11 sells milk a lot cheaper than some of the regular
supermarkets.

> Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on
> most jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".

I've run into that too. I get an answer like, "so?," with the attitude
that who the hell am I to tell them that they can't sell expired milk.
Actually I'm pretty sure that for milk they are not even allowed to sell
it past the "sell by" date, while for a lot of other food items it's not
illegal. One time I contacted Trader Joe's about this issue and they
investigated it, found that the store had a history of this problem, and
sent me $20 in gift certificates.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 11:29 am
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 22, 11:16 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Twice Retired wrote:
> > There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> > decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> > items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> > grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items
> > included tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee
> > creamer. I purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The
> > results:
> > 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> > 2. Small local $31.62
> > 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> > Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> > Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
>
> Yes, milk pricing can be bizarre. A lot of stores around me (California)
> claim to sell milk for the minimum price the state allows, which is
> around $2.65 a gallon for low fat (this week) if you buy two gallons at
> a time. Even 7-11 sells milk a lot cheaper than some of the regular
> supermarkets.
>
> > Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> > One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on
> > most jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> > employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
>
> I've run into that too. I get an answer like, "so?," with the attitude
> that who the hell am I to tell them that they can't sell expired milk.
> Actually I'm pretty sure that for milk they are not even allowed to sell
> it past the "sell by" date, while for a lot of other food items it's not
> illegal. One time I contacted Trader Joe's about this issue and they
> investigated it, found that the store had a history of this problem, and
> sent me $20 in gift certificates.

There's definitely a difference between the "best if used by" date and
"sell by". Some items are good up to a week past the "sell by" date;
on canned or packaged goods the "best if used by" is relating more to
quality, not safety. I still think some of it is a ploy to make
consumers rotate their stock at home and buy more though.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 2:18 pm
From: James

On Sep 22, 2:16 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Twice Retired wrote:
> > There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> > decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> > items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> > grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items
> > included tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee
> > creamer. I purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The
> > results:
> > 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> > 2. Small local $31.62
> > 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> > Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> > Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
>
> Yes, milk pricing can be bizarre. A lot of stores around me (California)
> claim to sell milk for the minimum price the state allows, which is
> around $2.65 a gallon for low fat (this week) if you buy two gallons at
> a time. Even 7-11 sells milk a lot cheaper than some of the regular
> supermarkets.
>
> > Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> > One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on
> > most jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> > employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
>
> I've run into that too. I get an answer like, "so?," with the attitude
> that who the hell am I to tell them that they can't sell expired milk.
> Actually I'm pretty sure that for milk they are not even allowed to sell
> it past the "sell by" date, while for a lot of other food items it's not
> illegal. One time I contacted Trader Joe's about this issue and they
> investigated it, found that the store had a history of this problem, and
> sent me $20 in gift certificates.

Milk is a very common permanent loss leader.

In other words, if you are headed out for a quick buy of milk at a
cheap price, they hope you will pick up one or two other items at
regualr pricing that will make up for the discount on the milk. Milk
buying can lead to regular visits to some of these type of places, and
over time they hope you buy more and more kinds of items.

James

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 2:30 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 22, 2:18 pm, James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> On Sep 22, 2:16 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Twice Retired wrote:
> > > There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> > > decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> > > items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> > > grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items
> > > included tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee
> > > creamer. I purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The
> > > results:
> > > 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> > > 2. Small local $31.62
> > > 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> > > Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> > > Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
>
> > Yes, milk pricing can be bizarre. A lot of stores around me (California)
> > claim to sell milk for the minimum price the state allows, which is
> > around $2.65 a gallon for low fat (this week) if you buy two gallons at
> > a time. Even 7-11 sells milk a lot cheaper than some of the regular
> > supermarkets.
>
> > > Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> > > One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on
> > > most jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> > > employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
>
> > I've run into that too. I get an answer like, "so?," with the attitude
> > that who the hell am I to tell them that they can't sell expired milk.
> > Actually I'm pretty sure that for milk they are not even allowed to sell
> > it past the "sell by" date, while for a lot of other food items it's not
> > illegal. One time I contacted Trader Joe's about this issue and they
> > investigated it, found that the store had a history of this problem, and
> > sent me $20 in gift certificates.
>
> Milk is a very common permanent loss leader.
>
> In other words, if you are headed out for a quick buy of milk at a
> cheap price, they hope you will pick up one or two other items at
> regualr pricing that will make up for the discount on the milk. Milk
> buying can lead to regular visits to some of these type of places, and
> over time they hope you buy more and more kinds of items.
>
> James- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Which explains why the "milk refrigerated section" is in the back of
the store...so you have to walk past all those end caps with their
teasing come ons :)

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 3:22 pm
From: "Twice Retired"

"Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e5a950eb-5011-44dc-a1a4-f3fde5291c70@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 20, 4:14 am, "Twice Retired" <phoen...@gulfshores.net> wrote:
> There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items included
> tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee creamer. I
> purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The results:
> 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> 2. Small local $31.62
> 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
> Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on
> most
> jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
> Each one of us has to make our own decision as to shopping. I would not
> rule
> out W-M for all items but I may be selective as to purchases.

You're not saying where in the world you are; based on the milk prices
though I would think you're not in the US?

Southern IL, 25 miles from St. Louis, MO.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 3:44 pm
From: clams_casino

Twice Retired wrote:

>
> "Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:e5a950eb-5011-44dc-a1a4-f3fde5291c70@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 20, 4:14 am, "Twice Retired" <phoen...@gulfshores.net> wrote:
>
>> There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
>> decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
>> items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
>> grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items
>> included
>> tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee creamer. I
>> purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The results:
>> 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
>> 2. Small local $31.62
>> 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
>> Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
>> Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
>> Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
>> One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates
>> on most
>> jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
>> employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
>> Each one of us has to make our own decision as to shopping. I would
>> not rule
>> out W-M for all items but I may be selective as to purchases.
>
>
> You're not saying where in the world you are; based on the milk prices
> though I would think you're not in the US?
>
> Southern IL, 25 miles from St. Louis, MO.

Paid $1.99 this afternoon at Cumberland Farms (RI) for 1%.(gallon)

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 3:47 pm
From: Truly Stunned

In article
<1d4f994a-b314-4dc2-a30f-39c53259ee46@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
James <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote:

> Milk is a very common permanent loss leader.

While buying milk in CA once, I apparently took too long seeking the
latest expiration date I could find. From somewhere in the darkened
back, a loud voice said sarcastically, "Take your time."

"Thanks," I replied calmly, "I will." Then I picked the latest dated
milk I could find and proceeded to stand there for five minutes opening
and closing the doors as if looking for something while whistling Dixie.
I have no idea whether the blowhard pussy was back there the whole time,
but I hope it irritated him. I was happy to help their dairy shelves
lead the store's losses that day.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pickets at non-Union grocers?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c31624b11f4398bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 11:42 am
From: Seerialmom

Recently my favorite off price grocery retailer, Grocery Outlet, has
been targeted by the UFCW union who has 4-6 people outside in the
parking lot with picket signs. This particular Grocery Outlet has
been in town for over 20 years...so why start picketing now??
Supposedly the reason for the pickets is because G.O. doesn't pay the
employees "union wages"; but none of the picketers ever worked for
G.O. nor are the employees of G.O. disgruntled?

Luckily the store does have a big fan base; it seems that the other
union based supermarkets are afraid that with this economy their
customers might "find" Grocery Outlet? The store isn't for everyone.
If you just want to go in and get the same old, same old you buy week
in and week out, don't go to Grocery Outlet because you might never
see the same item twice.

Chances are, regular shoppers of Grocery Outlet rarely, if ever, shop
at union stores nor do they even know what the difference is?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 3:34 pm
From: Gordon

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in news:f0cd604e-cafa-4473-8545-
ef822858b979@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com:

> Recently my favorite off price grocery retailer, Grocery Outlet, has
> been targeted by the UFCW union who has 4-6 people outside in the
> parking lot with picket signs. This particular Grocery Outlet has
> been in town for over 20 years...so why start picketing now??
> Supposedly the reason for the pickets is because G.O. doesn't pay the
> employees "union wages"; but none of the picketers ever worked for
> G.O. nor are the employees of G.O. disgruntled?
>
> Luckily the store does have a big fan base; it seems that the other
> union based supermarkets are afraid that with this economy their
> customers might "find" Grocery Outlet? The store isn't for everyone.
> If you just want to go in and get the same old, same old you buy week
> in and week out, don't go to Grocery Outlet because you might never
> see the same item twice.
>
> Chances are, regular shoppers of Grocery Outlet rarely, if ever, shop
> at union stores nor do they even know what the difference is?
>

UFCW is a bunch of Loonies. There is no grey area in their
thinking. Union = Good, NonUnion = Spawn of Satan.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 3:54 pm
From: Ken Lay

In article <Xns9B219E7ED9BC5greederxprtnet@194.177.96.26>,
Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

> UFCW is a bunch of Loonies. There is no grey area in their
> thinking. Union = Good, NonUnion = Spawn of Satan.

Wonder why oh why would they think that way? Probably just invisible
voices, huh? All those unionize grocery workers belong in straitjackets,
don't they? Not like the commonsense capitalists who brought us naked
short selling.
--
Everybody lies. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney just suck at it.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 3:54 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 22, 3:34 pm, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:f0cd604e-cafa-4473-8545-
> ef822858b...@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Recently my favorite off price grocery retailer, Grocery Outlet, has
> > been targeted by the UFCW union who has 4-6 people outside in the
> > parking lot with picket signs. This particular Grocery Outlet has
> > been in town for over 20 years...so why start picketing now??
> > Supposedly the reason for the pickets is because G.O. doesn't pay the
> > employees "union wages"; but none of the picketers ever worked for
> > G.O. nor are the employees of G.O. disgruntled?
>
> > Luckily the store does have a big fan base; it seems that the other
> > union based supermarkets are afraid that with this economy their
> > customers might "find" Grocery Outlet? The store isn't for everyone.
> > If you just want to go in and get the same old, same old you buy week
> > in and week out, don't go to Grocery Outlet because you might never
> > see the same item twice.
>
> > Chances are, regular shoppers of Grocery Outlet rarely, if ever, shop
> > at union stores nor do they even know what the difference is?
>
> UFCW is a bunch of Loonies. There is no grey area in their
> thinking. Union = Good, NonUnion = Spawn of Satan.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I guess not. I looked on their website and they have a whole list of
stores "not to do business with" because they also sell some grocery
items and aren't union, including Longs Drugs?? What I find odd is
the stores that do use the union have "self-checkouts"...and I use
them. Yet Grocery Outlet and the others mentioned still have their
checkers?

In this *.pdf file they're also talking about picketing Tesco (Fresh &
Easy) and the list I mentioned is further down.

http://www.ufcw135.org/workers/2008%20FEBRUARY.pdf

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sign the Petition - NO Blank Check for Wall Street
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3ba66fccee2a791f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 11:43 am
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Sep 22, 10:56 am, TJones <tjo...@genx.net> wrote:
> No blank check for Wall Street.
>
> Congress is on the brink of making a one-sided deal to give George W.
> Bush a blank check to bail out his pals - offering nearly (or perhaps
> more than) a trillion taxpayer dollars to Wall Street to cover its bad
> debts. That works out to somewhere between $2000 and $5000 from every
> American family. So what do the taxpayers get in return?
>
> Nothing. No new regulation or oversight to help avoid this kind of
> crisis in the future. No public interest givebacks to help people
> whose homes are in the hands of the banks. Perhaps most shockingly of
> all, the taxpayers get absolutely no share in the profits if and when
> these finance giants bounce back, even though we are now assuming a
> great deal of the risk.
>
> This is worse than a bad deal - this isn't a deal at all. This is a
> blank check to some of the richest companies in the world.
>
> There is some good news, though: Congress doesn't have to agreet to a
> blank check. Instead, it can choose to impose a few sensible
> conditions on the bailout to ensure that it will be used responsibly.
> Here are a few suggestions courtesy of Robert Reich1:
>
> If the taxpayers are shouldering the risk, the taxpayers should reap
> any eventual benefits. We accomplish this by giving the government an
> equity stake in every company we bail out proportionate to the amount
> we give them. If we're paying (more than) our fair share, the CEOs and
> executives should have to, too. All of the fat cats who got us into
> this mess should relinquish their stock options and salaries until
> they start showing us, their investors, that they can once again be
> profitable. Future salaries should be linked to profitability.
>
> No more campaign contributions from Wall Street executives and PACs.
> Taxpayer dollars should be used to get our nation out of a crisis.
> They cannot be used to fund giant, powerful lobby operations that will
> be used to strong arm Congress into making bad policy.
>
> Better regulations start right now. Wall Street can't expect to take
> thousands of dollars out of your paycheck without agreeing to
> increased transparency and more stringent oversight - the kind that
> might have helped avoid this mess to begin with.
>
> Bankruptcy judges get broader leeway to help homeowners. Why should we
> lose our homes so the CEOs can keep theirs?
>
> If Wall Street doesn't like these conditions, then it is welcome to
> find private investors to help it out of this debacle. But if the
> American people are going to take this hit, then we must have a say in
> the terms of the deal - even if we don't have an army of high-paid
> lobbyists at our disposal like they do.
>
> Congress must take swift and prudent action to avoid making a
> burgeoning crisis that much worse. Sign this petition today to make
> your voice heard to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, House Majority Leader Steny
> Hoyer, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, House Finance Chair Barney
> Frank, Senate Banking Chair Chris Dodd, and the de facto leaders of
> the two parties: Senators Barack Obama and John McCain. As elected
> officials, these people are all responsible to the taxpayers, not the
> Wall Street firms who line their campaign war chests. Please take
> action today.
>
> Sign the petition
>
> We strongly urge you not to issue a blank check to the Wall Street
> giants who have steered our country into financial dire straits. We
> must address this crisis quickly and prudently. Do not give these
> companies a dime of taxpayer money unless they agree to the following
> conditions:
>
> Go Here to sign petition
>
> http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/no_blank_check/?r=1606&id=912-885...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Expense of owning a car
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4157ba4677ee6728?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 11:56 am
From: "Rod Speed"

RodSpeed,_start_digging_that_hole <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote:

> More expensive then ever now.

Thats called inflation, child.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Watching The NFL Can Be Really Disgusting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04744c1b61cd4c14?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 12:44 pm
From: Bluuuue Rajah

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in
news:pkPBk.759$Rx.260@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com:

> Goro wrote:
>> On Sep 21, 2:51 pm, Bluuuue Rajah <Bluuuuue@Rajah.> wrote:
>>> "ricok987" <ricok...@optonline.net> wrote
>>> innews:48d6b357$0$5670$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>>
>>>> They would be smarter to have product placements during the
>>>> show-just think the amount of candy sold that was Miley Cyrus's
>>>> favorite candy/gum-just because they see her consume it? Hell, you
>>>> could develop whole plotlines based on a product or service...
>>> ESPN was panned this week by the NPR business show Marketplace,
>>> because they synergized a spot from their Wipeout show onto the
>>> week's top 10 sports moments. The reviewer pointed out that their
>>> journalistic credibility evaporates when they pass off crap as a
>>> "great moment."
>>
>> Since when HAS ESPN had any journalistic credibility? Those talking
>> heads just say random stuff and make rumors up ("from a source"). So
>> many times they just say things that turn out to be
>> not-even-remotely- true. I gave up on them a long time ago.
>
> Another favorite is saying "ESPN has learned...." when the story
> was already reported in a newspaper. I can not recall the last time I
> watched Sports Center.

I liked that old tv show, Sports Night. ... Of course, that wasn't
ESPN. :(

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bicycles at yard sales, flea markets, etc.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e1924195b32556d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 12:55 pm
From: OldRoads

If you go to yard sales, flea markets, etc and see bicycles, and are
wondering if the bikes are worth anything, look 'em up on our site.
You can make some decent cash on the side by selling bikes on places
like craigslist, and you're also keeping old bikes out the landfills.

There's a picture database with over 1400 bikes for you to use when
trying to identify a cycle.
There's a price guide and there are a dozen discussion ares.

No registration, or email or anything like that is required.

I've been running the site since 1995.

Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles
http://OldRoads.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 4:38 pm
From: Vandy Terre

This sounds good for folks hunting information on bicycles. Any one with
sources on values for horse drawn equipment? Or maybe sources for construction
plans for horse drawn equipment and harness? I have several horses and am
starting to train them for riding but would like to cross train for hauling.

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:55:41 -0700 (PDT), OldRoads <oldroads@hotmail.com> wrote:

>If you go to yard sales, flea markets, etc and see bicycles, and are
>wondering if the bikes are worth anything, look 'em up on our site.
>You can make some decent cash on the side by selling bikes on places
>like craigslist, and you're also keeping old bikes out the landfills.
>
>There's a picture database with over 1400 bikes for you to use when
>trying to identify a cycle.
>There's a price guide and there are a dozen discussion ares.
>
>No registration, or email or anything like that is required.
>
>I've been running the site since 1995.
>
>Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles
>http://OldRoads.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In fact, it really does look as if the foundations of US capitalism
have shattered. The World As We Know It Is Going Down
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/88a58a209e9d86e2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 1:07 pm
From: Dennis

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

>Dennis wrote:
<snippage>
>>
>> And (once again) for the record, I support neither the Democrats nor
>> the Republicans. In their actions (beyond the rhetoric) I don't think
>> there is much difference between the current incarnations of the two
>> parties and I think the blame for this financial mess is spread pretty
>> evenly.
>
>That's exactly the same kind of thinking that brought us 8 years of
>George W Bush. That there was no difference between him and Al Gore or
>the parties.

Of course, neither of us knows what would have happened had the 2000
election turned out differently. But I'm not so sure that things
would have been all that different under Gore regarding the war. Gore
was a warhawk during the first Gulf war and the dustups in Africa and
the Balkans (the latter complete with manufactured evidence of
genocide as justification). And he picked an even bigger warhawk (and
lapdog of Israel) as a running mate. All of the candidates were/are
in the pockets of the various power brokers.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum.

> BTW, that housing bill you put so much blame on was written by McCain
>financial adviser Phil Gramm
>
>And he seemed to forget how he voted on a now-controversial bill that
>largely de-regulated the financial services industry in 1999. It was
>written by Sen. Phil Gramm of Texas, who has since retired and is a
>McCain economic adviser. And Democrats, including Reid, opposed the bill
>when it first passed the Senate with 54 votes.

Wrong bill. Look up the "Community Reinvestment Act". Wiki has a
nice history. Note in particular that the regulations were relaxed in
1995 (during the Clinton administration) and, in particular, note how
the Bush administration tried to beef up regulation in 2003, but was
defeated by Congress. At the time, none other than Barney Frank
(current chair of the House Banking Comittee) said:

"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing
any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these
problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we
will see in terms of affordable housing.".

>
> Irregardless of what laws were written this crisis is due to a
>systematic destruction of oversight by this administration. And the
>party that rails against regulation and oversight is the Republican Party.

See above.

As I said, plenty of blame to go around.

Dennis (evil)
--
An inherent weakness of a pure democracy is that half
the voters are below average intelligence.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 4:10 pm
From: Jeff

Dennis wrote:

Hello Dennis,

> On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:33:45 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> Dennis wrote:
> <snippage>
>>> And (once again) for the record, I support neither the Democrats nor
>>> the Republicans. In their actions (beyond the rhetoric) I don't think
>>> there is much difference between the current incarnations of the two
>>> parties and I think the blame for this financial mess is spread pretty
>>> evenly.
>> That's exactly the same kind of thinking that brought us 8 years of
>> George W Bush. That there was no difference between him and Al Gore or
>> the parties.
>
> Of course, neither of us knows what would have happened had the 2000
> election turned out differently. But I'm not so sure that things
> would have been all that different under Gore regarding the war. Gore
> was a warhawk during the first Gulf war and the dustups in Africa and
> the Balkans (the latter complete with manufactured evidence of
> genocide as justification). And he picked an even bigger warhawk (and
> lapdog of Israel) as a running mate. All of the candidates were/are
> in the pockets of the various power brokers.

What makes the Bush approach so disastrous is that they had all the
evidence not to go to war. Instead what they did was set up their own in
house analysis (including one run from the OVP) to look for anything
they thought proved their case. It was under their own analysis that
previously discredited reports from the aptly name Curve Ball came to
dominate. But they always wanted to go to war. Bush's first Treasury
Secretary, Paul Oneal (sp?), was struck by both that and the fact that
there were no policy discussion in the White House. This was a WH that
had already made up it's mind. No other WH, of either party, has
subjugated policy to politics to such a degree. Not even Nixons.

Then, of course, they had Rumsfeld run it with unparalleled
confidence and smugness. Cheney's hand in all this can not be
underestimated.
>
> Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum.
>
>> BTW, that housing bill you put so much blame on was written by McCain
>> financial adviser Phil Gramm
>>
>> And he seemed to forget how he voted on a now-controversial bill that
>> largely de-regulated the financial services industry in 1999. It was
>> written by Sen. Phil Gramm of Texas, who has since retired and is a
>> McCain economic adviser. And Democrats, including Reid, opposed the bill
>> when it first passed the Senate with 54 votes.
>
> Wrong bill. Look up the "Community Reinvestment Act". Wiki has a
> nice history. Note in particular that the regulations were relaxed in
> 1995 (during the Clinton administration) and, in particular, note how
> the Bush administration tried to beef up regulation in 2003, but was
> defeated by Congress. At the time, none other than Barney Frank
> (current chair of the House Banking Comittee) said:
>
> "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing
> any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these
> problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we
> will see in terms of affordable housing.".

Not that I believe that was the correct path, but the real problem is
what they did with these "assets". Creative highly leveraged financing
and CDO's of CDO's amongst other "creative" instruments. This is so
impenetrable and opaque that to this date no one knows what these
instruments are made of. And that is why these are illiquid. No one has
a clue what the value is. And then leverage these 20 or more times, even
a 5% loss wipes out the fund.

Jeff
>
>> Irregardless of what laws were written this crisis is due to a
>> systematic destruction of oversight by this administration. And the
>> party that rails against regulation and oversight is the Republican Party.
>
> See above.
>
> As I said, plenty of blame to go around.

>
> Dennis (evil)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Costco guest passes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1a28391830066fbd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 1:54 pm
From: The Real Bev

Seerialmom wrote:

> On Sep 22, 1:23 am, "opmy" <o...@spam.com> wrote:
>> Does Costco give guest passes like Sam's does?
>> I need to buy a couple of things at Costco - I am ready
>> to pay an additional 10% or whatever, if they allow me
>> to shop without a membership.
>
> I haven't seen any myself; why not just go shopping with a friend who
> has a card?

And buy your stuff on their CostcoAmex card, giving them the 1% rebate
as an incentive. Costco doesn't do separate transactions for guests any
more, but they'll run a subtotal (including tax).

--
Cheers,
Bev
---------------------------------------------
"The primary purpose of any government entity
is to employ the unemployable."

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 2:17 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper

SMS wrote:
>
> Costco saves most people such an enormous amount of money that the
> membership fee is lost in the noise (and with the rebate on the
> executive membership, we actually don't pay anything for the
> membership). Certain items we buy at Costco are stuff that regular
> stores charge so much more for that we wouldn't even consider buying
> them if not for Costco.
>
> A few items that are much cheaper at Costco are:
>
> -Tires (especially because they don't gouge on mounting/balancing, and
> don't charge extra for valve stems, road hazard warranty, or nitrogen-fill)
>
> -Good Coffee beans
>
> -Fruit & vegetables (though only when compared against normal
> supermarkets, the Asian and Mexican markets are cheaper)
>
> -Fresh fish
>
> -USDA Choice meat (most supermarket chains in my area no longer carry it
> at all).
>
> -Cheese
>
> -Name brand clothing, though the selection varies over time
>
> -OTC medications
>
> -Gasoline
>
> -Office supplies
>
> -Plants and trees. OMG, you can get some unbelievable deals on trees
> compared to Home Depot, Lowes, or an independent nursery.
>
> -Mattresses
>
> -Furniture
>
> -Computers (include a 2 year warranty at no extra cost)
>
> -Televisions (include a 2 year warranty at no extra cost)

Batteries (Kirkland brand)

Actually, just about anything Kirkland brand. Kirkland grape juice is
the cheapest around (and beat out four other national brans in a blind
taste taste my husband did),

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
A man ought to read just as inclination leads him; for what
he reads as a task will do him little good. -- Samuel Johnson

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 3:58 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 22, 9:04 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> opmy wrote:
> > Does Costco give guest passes like Sam's does?
> > I need to buy a couple of things at Costco - I am ready
> > to pay an additional 10% or whatever, if they allow me
> > to shop without a membership.
>
> I think you can get them. One thing that seems to work is to get someone
> to buy you a Costco gift card, which I believe allows non-members to get
> a guest pass.
>
> Of course you could always get a membership, buy your stuff, and cancel
> it a few weeks later for a full refund.
>
> I know very few people that aren't Costco members, and they ask me to
> take them. Ironically, one of the people is someone that would most
> benefit from a membership, with two small children, and not a lot of
> time to run around from store to store taking advantage of sales.
>
> Remember, Costco doesn't do loss leaders, you can occasionally find
> similar items, especially some perishable food items, on sale for less
> at a regular store.
>
> Costco saves most people such an enormous amount of money that the
> membership fee is lost in the noise (and with the rebate on the
> executive membership, we actually don't pay anything for the
> membership). Certain items we buy at Costco are stuff that regular
> stores charge so much more for that we wouldn't even consider buying
> them if not for Costco.
>
> A few items that are much cheaper at Costco are:
>
> -Tires (especially because they don't gouge on mounting/balancing, and
> don't charge extra for valve stems, road hazard warranty, or nitrogen-fill)
>
> -Good Coffee beans
>
> -Fruit & vegetables (though only when compared against normal
> supermarkets, the Asian and Mexican markets are cheaper)
>
> -Fresh fish
>
> -USDA Choice meat (most supermarket chains in my area no longer carry it
> at all).
>
> -Cheese
>
> -Name brand clothing, though the selection varies over time
>
> -OTC medications
>
> -Gasoline
>
> -Office supplies
>
> -Plants and trees. OMG, you can get some unbelievable deals on trees
> compared to Home Depot, Lowes, or an independent nursery.
>
> -Mattresses
>
> -Furniture
>
> -Computers (include a 2 year warranty at no extra cost)
>
> -Televisions (include a 2 year warranty at no extra cost)

Ok...now I know where I'll look for the flat panel TV I'm
considering...and I already have the membership so that's covered. I
didn't realize they throw in an extended warranty.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Radiant Floor heating - nonliquid?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b2399bf8e581df6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 2:37 pm
From: David Lesher

Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> writes:

> Leaks really aren't a problem in underfloor staple up systems. The
>runs tend to be in one piece for each room.

> I believe the better underfloor systems use not "rubber" hoses but
>PEX (cross linked polyethelene with oxygen barriers) with heat spreaders.

Actually, the better installations I've seen have 2 interleaved runs
for a room. The idea is: if in fact one leaks, the other still handles
the room...
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Money saving / discount resource links site
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a5939ab8ef525c51?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 2:54 pm
From: "grantrowe@worldofrenewables.com"

Money saving / discount resource links site
Found a decent collection of the money saving cash back sites.
Seems new but easy to navigate.

www.moneysavingcashback.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I said it before and I'll say it again... the shit hasn't even hit the
fan yet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/44090923ae68de69?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 4:36 pm
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Sep 22, 2:59 pm, TigerLuck <TigerL...@wildlife.afr> wrote:
> After it does, your life savings will be cut in half and then in half again as
> rampant inflation hits your local grocery store, caused by the Fed printing up
> trillions and trillions of new dollars in a failed attempt to bail out the fools who
> who bought worthless mortgages with borrowed money.
>
> The Giant Pool of Moneyhttp://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242
>
> To listen, click on the link that reads "Full Episode".
>
> --
> Einstein forgot to carry the two

This is the same greasy government that cannot even secure it's border
with Mexico!

Mitch

http://www.numbersusa.com/ Numbers USA

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin splurgin' on $2,500 silk jackets and other high fashion
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/968a95c4d776c842?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 7:42 am
From: Gumby

On Sep 22, 7:44 am, Ken Lay
<livin_la_vida_mo...@skilling.the.whipping.boy> wrote:
> In article
> <c7c73e49-ec5e-4330-b4d4-79556ddba...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Gumby <stkwv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Except she's not; she's spending her own income.
>
> Not spending Alaska's money? Oh, never mind. I thought she was the
> governor. My mistake

It's HER income, regardless of who pays it. It's not like she's using
tax money earmarked for the public to buy her clothes. She has a right
to use HER income any way she wants - or do you want the gov't to
start telling you how to spend your income and control more of your
life?

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 7:59 am
From: Ken Lay

In article
<5649772c-f909-4819-a182-65e1cad4f4bb@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Gumby <stkwvr07@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sep 22, 7:44 am, Ken Lay
> <livin_la_vida_mo...@skilling.the.whipping.boy> wrote:
> > In article
> > <c7c73e49-ec5e-4330-b4d4-79556ddba...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > Gumby <stkwv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Except she's not; she's spending her own income.
> >
> > Not spending Alaska's money? Oh, never mind. I thought she was the
> > governor. My mistake
>
> It's HER income, regardless of who pays it. It's not like she's using
> tax money earmarked for the public to buy her clothes. She has a right
> to use HER income any way she wants - or do you want the gov't to
> start telling you how to spend your income and control more of your
> life?

That was my point, and you stole it. Thief. And by the way, how would
you like an executive position in the Alaska government? Just think:
with the right moves, it could lead to a federal position full of drugs,
drunks and debauchery. You know, like Bush's Interior Dept. and his DHS.
That's exactly what the country needs in these dark days: a bunch of
pimps and partyers in charge of the nation's security interests. You
sound like you would fit perfectly. Bush-Cheney 2008! Whoops! I mean,
McCain-Palin 2008!
--
Everybody lies. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney just suck at it.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:22 am
From: ayatollah obama

On Sep 22, 3:55 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Ken Lay wrote:
> >In article <78g4d4p3198g57nm00f8tdbb6it52op...@4ax.com>,
> > jdoe <j...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:45:20 -0000, "Val N. Teenow" <tee...@n.val>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>Where does a "hockey mom" get the money for $2,500 jackets?
>
> >>what is it yours or anyone else's business what she spends on herself?
> >>as ling as it's her money being spent it's nobody's business.
> >>what a bunch of simpletons why are engaged by crap like this
>
> >Yeah, who cares how she spends Alaska's money? Those chumps voted her
> >in. Nobody held a gun to their heads. She should use her government
> >salary (including any graft) to do whatever she wants, milk baths,
> >diamond-encrusted plumbing fixtures or roomsful shoes like Imelda. It
> >was public money once, but it's hers now so fuck off before we come
> >after you.
>
> But it's not AK's money. It's YOUR money. AK takes $5 in aid from the
> federal government for each dollar they contribute in federal income
> taxes. Without that federal aid, AK residents wouldn't receive their
> welfare checks. (They might actually use their oil profit taxes on
> state government expenditures rather than providing welfare for all it's
> residents).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

How much does obamaramadingdong road show of comedy and horror spend
on those suits of his, and how many does he have??? they look custom
made to me. what, $3,000, $4,000???? Did the tax payers pay for them
like they did his world wind tour over the summer?

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:14 am
From: clams_casino

Gumby wrote:

>On Sep 22, 7:44 am, Ken Lay
><livin_la_vida_mo...@skilling.the.whipping.boy> wrote:
>
>
>>In article
>><c7c73e49-ec5e-4330-b4d4-79556ddba...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> Gumby <stkwv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Except she's not; she's spending her own income.
>>>
>>>
>>Not spending Alaska's money? Oh, never mind. I thought she was the
>>governor. My mistake
>>
>>
>
>It's HER income, regardless of who pays it. It's not like she's using
>tax money earmarked for the public to buy her clothes.
>

That's true - It's money provided to the state via earmarks that are
distributed to residents as welfare since their state profits on oil
taxes should be used for state projects.

If it wasn't for the earmarks, AK couldn't provided their residents with
their annual welfare checks.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:15 am
From: clams_casino

Ken Lay wrote:

> Bush-Cheney 2008! Whoops! I mean,
>McCain-Palin 2008!
>
>

Get with it. It's now the Palin- McCain ticket.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:21 am
From: Hugh Wood

On Sep 22, 10:22 am, ayatollah obama
<osama.obabma.by.anyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 22, 3:55 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ken Lay wrote:
> > >In article <78g4d4p3198g57nm00f8tdbb6it52op...@4ax.com>,
> > > jdoe <j...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:45:20 -0000, "Val N. Teenow" <tee...@n.val>
> > >>wrote:
>
> > >>>Where does a "hockey mom" get the money for $2,500 jackets?
>
> > >>what is it yours or anyone else's business what she spends on herself?
> > >>as ling as it's her money being spent it's nobody's business.
> > >>what a bunch of simpletons why are engaged by crap like this
>
> > >Yeah, who cares how she spends Alaska's money? Those chumps voted her
> > >in. Nobody held a gun to their heads. She should use her government
> > >salary (including any graft) to do whatever she wants, milk baths,
> > >diamond-encrusted plumbing fixtures or roomsful shoes like Imelda. It
> > >was public money once, but it's hers now so fuck off before we come
> > >after you.
>
> > But it's not AK's money. It's YOUR money. AK takes $5 in aid from the
> > federal government for each dollar they contribute in federal income
> > taxes. Without that federal aid, AK residents wouldn't receive their
> > welfare checks. (They might actually use their oil profit taxes on
> > state government expenditures rather than providing welfare for all it's
> > residents).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> How much does obamaramadingdong road show of comedy and horror spend
> on those suits of his, and how many does he have??? they look custom
> made to me. what, $3,000, $4,000???? Did the tax payers pay for them
> like they did his world wind tour over the summer?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just think how money hungry african children Barry could feed with the
$400 million+ of Soros and Arab money he's squandered trying to buy
the Whitehouse. The low life sack of warm duckshit claims he's his
"brother's keeper" yet he won't even bother to send his Kenyan half-
brother a few dollars a month. I guess he's waiting to give the UN the
ability to tax the American people to the tune of $850 BILLION $ with
his "Global Poverty Act".

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:37 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Sep 19, 5:26 pm, ayatollah obama
<osama.obabma.by.anyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 19, 12:42 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 18, 5:24 pm, ayatollah obama
>
> > <osama.obabma.by.anyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 18, 11:03 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > charliekilo wrote:
> > > > >"clams_casino" <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
> > > > >news:%kqAk.14740$Dj1.10810@newsfe01.iad...
>
> > > > >>ayatollah obama wrote:
>
> > > > >>>compared to what piglosi has run up in deficit for this
> > > > >>>year.
>
> > > > >>Bush and Cheney died? I missed that. When did she become president?
>
> > > > >Congress *spends* the money -- back to civics class for you!
>
> > > > Your point? It'll take more than 18 months (and a new president) to
> > > > reverse the trend set by the Bush policies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > ??? wtf are you talking about??? spending money??? that could've
> > > occured on the first DemonCrap budget had piglosi wanted to??? other
> > > than that, Do you really think that Klinton kept any of Bush/Reagan,
> > > or that W kept any of klintons policies other than the ones we were
> > > bound to by treaty?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Are you aware that you make yourself look like a buffoon when you
> > mock and misspell people's names? One always assumes that such
> > a write has nothing of substance to say.
>
> > Cindy Hamilton- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Cindy, I see by looking at your history that you do not post often. I
> must appologize to you specifically if I have offended you in any way.
> The alt.politics group is not a place for one who can get their
> feelings hurt easily. 90% of the people who post here are hard core in
> their beliefs, and nothing posted here will sway them either way. The
> remaining 10% maybe, but even they are attacked to the core of their
> beliefs, and quite often in a very harsh manner.

I read this in misc.consumers.frugal living. I was not offended.

What is the point in attacking someone who cannot be persuaded?

I don't see how one can hope to win a debate by using such debased
tactics.

Cindy Hamilton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Air Max 90 Low Men, Max 90 Woman's, Nike Shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27e5e1c45b3836ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 7:47 am
From: riki0002@gmail.com

www.kicksin.com

The Nike Air Max 90 was first released to the public in 1990. The Nike
Air Max 90 was not known by the public as the Nike Air Max 90 until a
couple years after the release. It was named Nike Air Max III, but
much like the first World War, it took on a different name after there
were successors

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 7:38 am
From: "JonquilJan"

RodSpeed,_start_digging_that_hole <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1c777f85-25ad-46e3-8e37-187a4a3fa7bc@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> More expensive then ever now.

Agree. I combine errands/trips as much as possible and have the lowest
legal limit on my insurance. Still a drain on finances. Staying home a lot
more. Which saves on gas but the set expenses are still there.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:16 am
From: SMS

JonquilJan wrote:
> RodSpeed,_start_digging_that_hole <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1c777f85-25ad-46e3-8e37-187a4a3fa7bc@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> More expensive then ever now.
>
> Agree. I combine errands/trips as much as possible and have the lowest
> legal limit on my insurance. Still a drain on finances. Staying home a lot
> more. Which saves on gas but the set expenses are still there.
>
> JonquilJan
>
> Learn something new every day
> As long as you are learning, you are living
> When you stop learning, you start dying

Actually car ownership is one thing that has not gone up very much at
all over the past ten years. New car prices have been remarkably stable,
i.e. I was pricing a 2009 Camry LE, and it was $17,500-$18500 (depending
on the dealer) with all the rebates. 12 years ago we paid $17K for the
same model, and it didn't have a lot of the equipment that's now
standard (ABS, a gazillion air bags, TPMS, etc.).

Car insurance rates have been going down, not up, over time. Even
vehicle registration fees have gone down (and the attempt by the last
California governor to eliminate a temporary reduction, put in place
when the state had surpluses, caused him to be recalled).

Fuel costs are the one item that have really gone up, but only because
we have two oilmen in the White House who compounded the problem with
their economic policies that weakened the U.S. dollar and their foreign
policies which disrupted supply. Once we get the Republicans out of
office and start getting serious about both conservation and alternative
energy, we'll stop using so much oil to generate electricity.

If there's one reason to not vote for McCain, it's his total
cluelessness regarding energy policy. I was reading an article in
Fortune magazine yesterday about Matt Simmons, a very famous oil and gas
consultant in Texas, and naturally expected to see something about how
the founder supported McCain. OMG. "Why should a lifelong Republican
need to be the one to point out that his party's new mantra - "Drill,
baby, drill!" - won't really fix anything and that his party's
presidential candidate is clueless about energy?" He's supporting Obama,
because Obama actually _does_ have a clue (at least about energy policy)

See
"http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/news/economy/500dollaroil_okeefe.fortune/index.htm"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nike Dunk High Men Shoes, Dunks Women's,
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e1a786a3b89dddc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 7:50 am
From: riki0002@gmail.com

www.kicksin.com

Nike launched the Nike SB line in March of 2002 at the start of the
rise of the Skateboarding trend. For years in California, the skate
culture was very popular and skateboarding shoes and clothes were worn
more as casual wear than by actual skateboarders. Nike saw the
potential to tapping into this market and thus launched the Nike
Skateboarding line.Nike launched their skateboarding lines on the back
of the Nike Dunks SB. The Nike Skateboarding Dunks were the same shape
and fit as the Nike Dunks, but with several performance changes.First
of all, Nike knew that with the wear and tear of the foot, a good
cushioning system was needed. Since skateboarding shoes need to have a
low center of gravity, the Nike Dunks SBs had Zoom Air insoles. Next,
the Nike Dunk SBs had extra padding added to the area around the ankle
and to the tongue. The extra padding to the tongue did provide some
extra cushioning between the top of the foot and the board, but it was
more for cosmetic appearance than anything. Lastly, Nike beefed up the
quality of the materials on the Nike Skateboarding Dunks. With double
and triple stitching being the standard in the skateboarding shoe
industry, Nike made the Dunks SBs much stronger than tradional dunks.

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:44 am
From: Goro

On Sep 21, 11:06 am, here@home (A Liberal's Worst Nightmare) wrote:
> Wall-to-wall commercials. Guy kicks extra point. Multiple
> commercials. Team then kicks off. Multiple commercials. Then on 1st
> down, QB completes pass for a 6-yard gain. Oops, another commercial
> break. What the fuck!? Nobody on the field called a time-out!

It's a TV timeout. seriously. And the worst part is that if you GO
to a game, they don't actually tell you what's going on. So there's a
play and then suddenly everythign just stops, waterboys walk out and 2
1/2 min later, the game starts up again.

> I can recall when an NFL game averaged 2 hrs. and 15 minutes, and you
> would see most of the halftime show. Hey, I'd defend capitalism with
> my life, but the way pro sports has given in to greed, I'd be
> deliriously happy to see pro sports collapse.

You also fail to mention the in game ads, where they superimpose some
ad on the field or behind the goalposts prior to a game being
played. At one time (i think this was college football), where they
were promoting the new $20 bill and they displayed it whenever a team
got inside the 20yd line.

-goro-

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:45 am
From: Goro

On Sep 21, 12:41 pm, "ricok987" <ricok...@optonline.net> wrote:
> You do realize that NFL players are paid on average between $2-4 million do
> you? Ticket prices alone will not pay those salaries, and there is no
> pay-per-view. Just use the commercial time for bathroom and snack breaks,
> or channel surf because the only other alternative would be either to record
> the game or tivo...

NFL Sunday Ticket is basically NFL ppv.

-goro-

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:48 am
From: Goro

On Sep 21, 2:51 pm, Bluuuue Rajah <Bluuuuue@Rajah.> wrote:
> "ricok987" <ricok...@optonline.net> wrote innews:48d6b357$0$5670$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>
> > They would be smarter to have product placements during the show-just
> > think the amount of candy sold that was Miley Cyrus's favorite
> > candy/gum-just because they see her consume it? Hell, you could
> > develop whole plotlines based on a product or service...
>
> ESPN was panned this week by the NPR business show Marketplace, because
> they synergized a spot from their Wipeout show onto the week's top 10
> sports moments. The reviewer pointed out that their journalistic
> credibility evaporates when they pass off crap as a "great moment."

Since when HAS ESPN had any journalistic credibility? Those talking
heads just say random stuff and make rumors up ("from a source"). So
many times they just say things that turn out to be not-even-remotely-
true. I gave up on them a long time ago.

-goro-

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:00 am
From: George Grapman

Goro wrote:
> On Sep 21, 12:41 pm, "ricok987" <ricok...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> You do realize that NFL players are paid on average between $2-4 million do
>> you? Ticket prices alone will not pay those salaries, and there is no
>> pay-per-view. Just use the commercial time for bathroom and snack breaks,
>> or channel surf because the only other alternative would be either to record
>> the game or tivo...
>
> NFL Sunday Ticket is basically NFL ppv.
>
> -goro-

True,but it is still a better deal than the baseball package. I
know each week that I will get every Sunday game unless the Raiders are
blacked out at home.
The baseball package has many exception. You do not get:

Games where both teams are telecasting on over the air tv instead
of a regional cable network.

Saturday afternoon games.

Any games involving a local team. True,most of those games are
available locally but there are exceptions. A few times a month the A's
will not be televising a game but the opposing team is. That game will
not be shown but I can sometimes still watch it on ch.720 which shows up
t 8 games at a time albeit with a much smaller picture.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:02 am
From: George Grapman

Goro wrote:
> On Sep 21, 2:51 pm, Bluuuue Rajah <Bluuuuue@Rajah.> wrote:
>> "ricok987" <ricok...@optonline.net> wrote innews:48d6b357$0$5670$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>
>>> They would be smarter to have product placements during the show-just
>>> think the amount of candy sold that was Miley Cyrus's favorite
>>> candy/gum-just because they see her consume it? Hell, you could
>>> develop whole plotlines based on a product or service...
>> ESPN was panned this week by the NPR business show Marketplace, because
>> they synergized a spot from their Wipeout show onto the week's top 10
>> sports moments. The reviewer pointed out that their journalistic
>> credibility evaporates when they pass off crap as a "great moment."
>
> Since when HAS ESPN had any journalistic credibility? Those talking
> heads just say random stuff and make rumors up ("from a source"). So
> many times they just say things that turn out to be not-even-remotely-
> true. I gave up on them a long time ago.
>
> -goro-

Another favorite is saying "ESPN has learned...." when the story
was already reported in a newspaper. I can not recall the last time I
watched Sports Center.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: All bankers are criminals and should be treated as such.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/929a49de1380dfd5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:46 am
From: Tamil Tiger

In article
<l8mdnVkNjPqCLE_VnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@posted.choiceonecommunications>,
"AllYou!" <idaman@conversent.net> wrote:

> This will fall on deaf ears. Some people just want to believe the
> reality that they made for themselves.

and;

Our Position on the Economy

Our nation was founded on values twinning personal initiative with
mutual co-operation. From the Plymouth Colony to Andrew Jackson's
Reforms, to the Homestead Act to the New Deal, Americans have known that
we all are better off when we recognize basic standards of social
justice. But thanks to globalism, dog-eat-dog economics has resulted in
offshoring, outsourcing, the destruction of unions, and the gutting of
the US economy. We advocate economic nationalism, which places the
economy at the service of the nation; we believe that the welfare of our
people should supercede all other things, including the ability of
multinational corporations to exploit or ignore our people for unbridled
profits.

http://www.europeanamericansunited.org/index.php?categoryid=16
--

If guns are out-lawed. Only the Out-laws,my in-laws
& politicians will have guns.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:23 am
From: "Paul Thomas, CPA"

"Tamil Tiger" <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote
> Our nation was founded on values twinning personal initiative
> with mutual co-operation. From the Plymouth Colony to
> Andrew Jackson's Reforms, to the Homestead Act to the
> New Deal, Americans have known that we all are better
> off when we recognize basic standards of social justice.

And what are those? That we have to suck up higher prices for goods and
services because it makes ~you~ happy?

> But thanks to globalism, dog-eat-dog economics has
> resulted in offshoring, outsourcing, the destruction
> of unions, and the gutting of the US economy.

Let's be realistic here. A global economy willdrag down the better run
economies, and pull up the weaker economies, meeting some place in the
middle.

Here's how it works: You have to reduce your costs (labor being the highest
cost) to meet the competitive price offered up by folks making less per day
than the cost of a big mac meal. Those folks are elated to be making twice
their average annual wages. Your personal income goes down, theirs go up.

> We advocate economic nationalism,

At what cost?

> which places the economy at the service of the nation;
> we believe that the welfare of our people should
> supercede all other things,

Again, at what cost?

> including the ability of multinational corporations to
> exploit or ignore our people for unbridled profits.

When everyone in America stops buying crap that's not "Made in the USA" and
buys only US made goods and hires only US citizens or legal workers, then
the power of economics comes to play. Right now, the US economy is being
drug down because that's exactly what the US consumers want.

US Consumer: "We wants cheap stuff."
US Worker: "We want higher wages."

The US consumer wins out every time. But only if you do not prohibit free
and open trade.

--
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For
those who do not, none will suffice." - Joseph Dunniger

Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Athens, Georgia

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:04 am
From: SMS

opmy wrote:
> Does Costco give guest passes like Sam's does?
> I need to buy a couple of things at Costco - I am ready
> to pay an additional 10% or whatever, if they allow me
> to shop without a membership.

I think you can get them. One thing that seems to work is to get someone
to buy you a Costco gift card, which I believe allows non-members to get
a guest pass.

Of course you could always get a membership, buy your stuff, and cancel
it a few weeks later for a full refund.

I know very few people that aren't Costco members, and they ask me to
take them. Ironically, one of the people is someone that would most
benefit from a membership, with two small children, and not a lot of
time to run around from store to store taking advantage of sales.

Remember, Costco doesn't do loss leaders, you can occasionally find
similar items, especially some perishable food items, on sale for less
at a regular store.

Costco saves most people such an enormous amount of money that the
membership fee is lost in the noise (and with the rebate on the
executive membership, we actually don't pay anything for the
membership). Certain items we buy at Costco are stuff that regular
stores charge so much more for that we wouldn't even consider buying
them if not for Costco.

A few items that are much cheaper at Costco are:

-Tires (especially because they don't gouge on mounting/balancing, and
don't charge extra for valve stems, road hazard warranty, or nitrogen-fill)

-Good Coffee beans

-Fruit & vegetables (though only when compared against normal
supermarkets, the Asian and Mexican markets are cheaper)

-Fresh fish

-USDA Choice meat (most supermarket chains in my area no longer carry it
at all).

-Cheese

-Name brand clothing, though the selection varies over time

-OTC medications

-Gasoline

-Office supplies

-Plants and trees. OMG, you can get some unbelievable deals on trees
compared to Home Depot, Lowes, or an independent nursery.

-Mattresses

-Furniture

-Computers (include a 2 year warranty at no extra cost)

-Televisions (include a 2 year warranty at no extra cost)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:51 am
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 22, 1:23 am, "opmy" <o...@spam.com> wrote:
> Does Costco give guest passes like Sam's does?
> I need to buy a couple of things at Costco - I am ready
> to pay an additional 10% or whatever, if they allow me
> to shop without a membership.

I haven't seen any myself; why not just go shopping with a friend who
has a card?

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:10 am
From: Jeff

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I see a lot of "Radiant Floor Heating" with a rubbery tubing stapled under
> the floor. SInce I tend to be in horror of any kind of leaks, I wonder why
> they don't use some compresses gas instead?

Nothing has a greater heat capacity than water (per pound). You would
need to run a *lot* of air through the system, that's why forced air
systems have large ducts and run hotter.

Even mini duct systems need to run the same *volume* of air as their
larger brethren. Now think of running several hundred cfm through even a
1" tube. Daunting and a lot of loss both in pumping and line loss.
Completely impractical.

Leaks really aren't a problem in underfloor staple up systems. The
runs tend to be in one piece for each room.

I believe the better underfloor systems use not "rubber" hoses but
PEX (cross linked polyethelene with oxygen barriers) with heat spreaders.

The only problem I've heard of with that (PEX) has been rodents.

Jeff

>
> Mind you, I have even had experience with central venting "leaking": I
> haven't used a/c since my folks died but my uncle's a/c duct sweats onto my
> ceiling. That's the price for freeloading (hot air rises) off his a/c.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:19 am
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 20, 4:14 am, "Twice Retired" <phoen...@gulfshores.net> wrote:
> There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items included
> tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee creamer. I
> purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The results:
> 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> 2. Small local $31.62
> 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
> Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on most
> jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
> Each one of us has to make our own decision as to shopping. I would not rule
> out W-M for all items but I may be selective as to purchases.

You're not saying where in the world you are; based on the milk prices
though I would think you're not in the US?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:22 am
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 21, 5:57 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Twice Retired wrote:
> > There has been so much rhetoric about Wal-Mart vs. other stores I just
> > decided to try something. Over the past 4 weeks I purchased a few basic
> > items at 3 stores, W-M, a local small grocery, and the typical "snob
> > grocery". No produce, frozen, or meat items were included. Items
> > included tissue, detergent, bread, canned food, milk, coffee, coffee
> > creamer. I purchased the exact brand/size of items at each location. The
> > results:
> > 1. Snob Grocery $33.17
> > 2. Small local $31.62
> > 3. Wal-Mart $25.32
> > Milk pricing per gallon was nutty. W-M $2.74, local $3.79, snob $3.91.
> > Coffee creamer about the same, W-M $2.53, local $3.59, snob $4.09.
> > Since all brand/sizes were identical quality is not a variable.
> > One disturbing item was the milk at the local. The expiration dates on
> > most jugs had passed and when I called it to the attention of one of the
> > employees I was told "Somebody will buy it".
> > Each one of us has to make our own decision as to shopping. I would not
> > rule out W-M for all items but I may be selective as to purchases.
>
> Whats a "snob grocery"?
>
> I don't find anything like that here. There are a large regional chain
> and a large family owned Italian market where we buy our groceries. I
> have compared a number of times with wally and I don't see any
> difference to write home about. Plus I don't care for adulterated or
> poor quality meat products. Walmart meats are pumped up with
> preservatives and water. I can buy fresh real meat at great prices at
> the other places. If I want say sausage Walmart offers total garbage
> like that Hillshire stuff. I can but freshly made good quality sausage
> at the other place at a similar price instead.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Snob grocery = Bel Air, Raley's Nob Hill, Nugget. It's not about the
attitude as much as the atmosphere and the items they carry.
Personally I love Raley's in general, especially when they have Dutch
Crunch bread on sale...it's so good fresh!

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:43 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Sep 19, 7:43 pm, hp...@lycos.com wrote:
> If just 20% of mortgage holders withheld their payments for say two
> months the banking swine
> would be on their knees. Such a boycott would need big-name support.
> Be a nice project
> for early next year.

Huh? I took out a loan and promised to pay it back. You are asking
me to go back on my word.

I never thought I would quote Rod Speed: "Ain't gonna happen."

Tell you what--you go first and I'll see if I want to emulate you.

Cindy Hamilton

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 22 2008 11:02 am
From: Bert Hyman

hpope@lycos.com () wrote in
news:cdab59dd-8f41-49b5-82ff-42c6f8b876a1@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

Stop paying your credit card bills too.

You should also walk out of restaurants without paying your bill.

Drive off from the gas station without paying.

Take your purchases out of the grocery store without paying.

Lots of other protests suggest themselves here.

Tell us how it works out for you.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

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Monday, September 22, 2008

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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