Frugal Living: Jan 15, 2009

Thursday, January 15, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Click n Clack say, don't buy a new car.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/787b95b7a56331ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 1:41 pm
From: "Dave"

> I remember looking at some used Camrys when we bought a new one. A one
> year old Camry was about $1000 more than a new one, a two year old was
> about $500 more than a new one, and a three year old was about
> $500-$1000 less than a new one,

You noticed that too? I remember being on a Honda dealer's lot, and used
Accords were priced thousands higher than new ones. WHAT?!? -Dave

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 3:17 pm
From: "ares"

Maybe for THEM because maybe they know how to fix their own cars.
I always buy new because it usually gives me a good 3 years of worry free
driving. A used one
is that much closer to a big repair. And yeah, I also noticed that you can
get new Toyotas for
just a tad more than a used one so why buy used there? I was disappointed
with my last Corolla
wagon; a 90; its transmission went out at little over 82,000 miles but I
have this feeling that a
mechanic tampered with it during an oil change because the exact same thing
happened to a friend
who had an oil change there.
ares

"Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote in message
news:gkoah6$7jl$1@news.motzarella.org...
>> I remember looking at some used Camrys when we bought a new one. A one
>> year old Camry was about $1000 more than a new one, a two year old was
>> about $500 more than a new one, and a three year old was about
>> $500-$1000 less than a new one,
>
> You noticed that too? I remember being on a Honda dealer's lot, and used
> Accords were priced thousands higher than new ones. WHAT?!? -Dave
>
>

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 3:52 pm
From: clams_casino

SMS wrote:

> doc marten wrote:
>
>> Yes, they said it in their latest column.
>> That it's Never cheaper even in the long run to buy a New Car.
>
>
> They are mistaken. You need to do a spreadsheet of depreciation,
> reliability and predicted out of warranty repair costs, and the street
> price of the vehicle new versus used.
>
> It's true that if you're going to buy a vehicle with terrible resale
> value, i.e. something from the big 3 or one of the second tier
> Japanese manufacturers, you're probably better off buying used. If
> you're buying a three year old Toyota or Honda you're paying a big
> premium for the brand name yet you're getting no warranty.
> Furthermore, someone selling a three year old Honda or Toyota is
> likely the type of person that paid way too much for it when it was
> new, and is counting on someone that would be overpaying for a new one
> to buy his or her used one.
>
> I remember looking at some used Camrys when we bought a new one. A one
> year old Camry was about $1000 more than a new one, a two year old was
> about $500 more than a new one, and a three year old was about
> $500-$1000 less than a new one, depending on the mileage. Even though
> it was a Toyota, there was still one warranty repair we needed,
> something that was a common failure on that generation of Toyota. Had
> we bought the three year old model and saved $500, we would have paid
> for a $400 repair.
>

This has been hashed & rehashed numerous times on this newsgroup. IMO,
it really depends on one's annual mileage & need for dependability.
Low usage drivers (especially <10k) who don't travel far from home with
mostly daytime driving will likely do best with used vehicles. High
mileage drivers (perhaps 25k/yr ore more) tend to do best with new
vehicles, either trading them at perhaps 100k or using them as a second
car after 100k while driving them into the ground..

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 3:53 pm
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>I remember looking at some used Camrys when we bought a new one. A one
>>year old Camry was about $1000 more than a new one, a two year old was
>>about $500 more than a new one, and a three year old was about
>>$500-$1000 less than a new one,
>>
>>
>
>You noticed that too? I remember being on a Honda dealer's lot, and used
>Accords were priced thousands higher than new ones. WHAT?!? -Dave
>
>
>
>
The tax & insurance costs can make such vehicles attractive to low
mileage drivers.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 4:16 pm
From: "Daniel T."

doc marten <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:

> Yes, they said it in their latest column.
> That it's Never cheaper even in the long run to buy a New Car.
> and it you want proof.
> get their book "How to buy a great used car",, you might find it on'
> www.cartalk.com

Sure, that's almost always true, but it's also cheeper to live like a
bum, that doesn't mean I want to do it.

--
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 4:23 pm
From: "Daniel T."

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

> Low usage drivers (especially <10k) who don't travel far from home with
> mostly daytime driving will likely do best with used vehicles. High
> mileage drivers (perhaps 25k/yr ore more) tend to do best with new
> vehicles, either trading them at perhaps 100k or using them as a second
> car after 100k while driving them into the ground..

So you think a person who is driving his car 25K a year or more, and has
a car that has about 100K on it, but works perfectly, should trade it in
for a brand new car?

--
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 4:58 pm
From: clams_casino

Daniel T. wrote:

>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Low usage drivers (especially <10k) who don't travel far from home with
>>mostly daytime driving will likely do best with used vehicles. High
>>mileage drivers (perhaps 25k/yr ore more) tend to do best with new
>>vehicles, either trading them at perhaps 100k or using them as a second
>>car after 100k while driving them into the ground..
>>
>>
>
>So you think a person who is driving his car 25K a year or more, and has
>a car that has about 100K on it, but works perfectly, should trade it in
>for a brand new car?
>
>
>
Depends on how important the dependability factor is. For me, no.
I'd keep it as my primary car until about 150k and then use it as a
secondary car.

But for perhaps a sales rep, etc making numerous calls over a wide
territory, it's probably better to stay with a car <100k. For someone
just commuting to work, I'd push for at least 150k before retiring it
to a second vehicle, passing it onto a child, etc..

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 5:23 pm
From: "Lou"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:8ZQbl.53964$3_4.45492@newsfe10.iad...
> Daniel T. wrote:
>
> >clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Low usage drivers (especially <10k) who don't travel far from home with
> >>mostly daytime driving will likely do best with used vehicles. High
> >>mileage drivers (perhaps 25k/yr ore more) tend to do best with new
> >>vehicles, either trading them at perhaps 100k or using them as a second
> >>car after 100k while driving them into the ground..
> >>
> >>
> >
> >So you think a person who is driving his car 25K a year or more, and has
> >a car that has about 100K on it, but works perfectly, should trade it in
> >for a brand new car?
> >
> >
> >
> Depends on how important the dependability factor is. For me, no.
> I'd keep it as my primary car until about 150k and then use it as a
> secondary car.
>
> But for perhaps a sales rep, etc making numerous calls over a wide
> territory, it's probably better to stay with a car <100k. For someone
> just commuting to work, I'd push for at least 150k before retiring it
> to a second vehicle, passing it onto a child, etc..

Again, it depends. My wife and I are way past the point where we'd have a
child to pass a car to, we've been empty nesters for over 20 years. We each
need a car for commuting to work - my commute alone is around 20,000 miles a
year, and my wife's is around 30,000. The best thing I can think of to do
with an older, miles getting up there car is trade it in, either as a
straight trade or sell it and use the money for a down payment. The last
thing the two of us need is a third car. And neither of us wants to be
caught 40+ miles from home in a car that suddenly isn't working (happened
once, that was plenty).

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 5:48 pm
From: clams_casino

Lou wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:8ZQbl.53964$3_4.45492@newsfe10.iad...
>
>
>>Daniel T. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Low usage drivers (especially <10k) who don't travel far from home with
>>>>mostly daytime driving will likely do best with used vehicles. High
>>>>mileage drivers (perhaps 25k/yr ore more) tend to do best with new
>>>>vehicles, either trading them at perhaps 100k or using them as a second
>>>>car after 100k while driving them into the ground..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>So you think a person who is driving his car 25K a year or more, and has
>>>a car that has about 100K on it, but works perfectly, should trade it in
>>>for a brand new car?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Depends on how important the dependability factor is. For me, no.
>>I'd keep it as my primary car until about 150k and then use it as a
>>secondary car.
>>
>>But for perhaps a sales rep, etc making numerous calls over a wide
>>territory, it's probably better to stay with a car <100k. For someone
>>just commuting to work, I'd push for at least 150k before retiring it
>>to a second vehicle, passing it onto a child, etc..
>>
>>
>
>Again, it depends. My wife and I are way past the point where we'd have a
>child to pass a car to, we've been empty nesters for over 20 years. We each
>need a car for commuting to work - my commute alone is around 20,000 miles a
>year, and my wife's is around 30,000. The best thing I can think of to do
>with an older, miles getting up there car is trade it in, either as a
>straight trade or sell it and use the money for a down payment. The last
>thing the two of us need is a third car. And neither of us wants to be
>caught 40+ miles from home in a car that suddenly isn't working (happened
>once, that was plenty).
>
>
>
>
So when would you trade? What are you considering as "getting up there"?

I passed on my 2000 Accord to family member at 150k who is approaching
200k with negligible problems.

Agree that one really doesn't want to break down 40+ miles from home,
especially at night. Did that once (belt broke on my Chrysler). Now I
carry a cell phone when away from the local area.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 7:46 pm
From: "Daniel T."

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> doc marten wrote:

> > Yes, they said it in their latest column.
> > That it's Never cheaper even in the long run to buy a New Car.
>
> They are mistaken. You need to do a spreadsheet of depreciation,
> reliability and predicted out of warranty repair costs, and the street
> price of the vehicle new versus used.
>
> It's true that if you're going to buy a vehicle with terrible resale
> value, i.e. something from the big 3 or one of the second tier Japanese
> manufacturers, you're probably better off buying used. If you're buying
> a three year old Toyota or Honda you're paying a big premium for the
> brand name yet you're getting no warranty. Furthermore, someone selling
> a three year old Honda or Toyota is likely the type of person that paid
> way too much for it when it was new, and is counting on someone that
> would be overpaying for a new one to buy his or her used one.
>
> I remember looking at some used Camrys when we bought a new one. A one
> year old Camry was about $1000 more than a new one, a two year old was
> about $500 more than a new one, and a three year old was about
> $500-$1000 less than a new one, depending on the mileage. Even though it
> was a Toyota, there was still one warranty repair we needed, something
> that was a common failure on that generation of Toyota. Had we bought
> the three year old model and saved $500, we would have paid for a $400
> repair.

Why did you choose to buy a car, rather than keep the one you had?
Unless your car had serious frame damage, there was a third choice you
weren't seeing, which was probably less expensive.

--
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Batteries: Pays to shop around
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5e9668558de59929?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 3:40 pm
From: clams_casino

me@privacy.net wrote:

>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>No wonder they have to
>>pay celebrities to push on infomercials & sell it via Walmart. It's
>>crap. DON'T even think about it.
>>
>>
>
>Ok thanks so much for heads up!
>
>I will stick with HP printer then
>
>
I picked up an HP 3-in-1 4480 printer at Staples for $50 on black
Friday afternoon - haven't had a jam, misfeed, problem yet after about
two reams of printings.

Only observation is that it does use more ink than I think it needs for
the draft setting, but it runs so problem free that I'll overlook some
extra ink usage.

I thought about giving away my Kodak printer, but couldn't come up with
someone I hated that much.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal changes that save more than $100 per month
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/07f36911318eebe4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 3:47 pm
From: clams_casino

John A. Weeks III wrote:

>In article <anvum45kfta1gv4l4br5n7jkb710f4helu@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'm curious how many of you are TRACKING your finances
>>using Quicken on the computer?
>>use an online service like mint.com?
>>
>>
>
>Unless you have a mega-corporation to manage, why not just
>do it in a small spreadsheet? Or a yellow note pad? How
>complex could this be? You have a couple of bank accounts,
>a small stack of bills, a few credit cards, and a 401K
>statement. If you are doing more than that, then you are
>really over-thinking the process.
>
>-john-
>
>
>
Agree - We've tracked all expenses via a budget book - simply noting all
expenses in about ten categories on a daily basis & adding the figures
monthly. It takes so little time that I'm not sure how a computer
program would be faster, except perhaps in adding the columns. It would
certainly be more time consuming to enter the numbers. I use one column
to track all charges to compare with the bill when it arrives, although
I've not had more than a couple of minor discrepancies over many years..

It's basically a spreadsheet done manually that comes in handy at the
end of the year for taxes as well as having an understanding of where
all the money goes (by general category, not specific to place)..

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 4:46 pm
From: tweeny90655@mypacks.net

On Jan 15, 6:47 pm, clams_casino
>
> >Unless you have a mega-corporation to manage, why not just
> >do it in a small spreadsheet? Or a yellow note pad? How
> >complex could this be? You have a couple of bank accounts,
> >a small stack of bills, a few credit cards, and a 401K
> >statement. If you are doing more than that, then you are
> >really over-thinking the process.

Quicken lets you answer questions like ..."What was the name of that
plumber we used in 1993?" "What did I pay for gas in 1999?"" Where
was that nice Greek resto we ate at on the way to Aunt Sue's in 1995?"
Beats poring over spreadsheets which probably won't have all the facts
Quicken can store. Dynamite come tax time. Indispensible if you wanna
really know how you're spending your money. You can even track cash
if you are diligent about recording it.
Balancing your checkbook takes only a few minutes. I'd hate to
lose my Quicken.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 5:01 pm
From: clams_casino

tweeny90655@mypacks.net wrote:

>On Jan 15, 6:47 pm, clams_casino
>
>
>>>Unless you have a mega-corporation to manage, why not just
>>>do it in a small spreadsheet? Or a yellow note pad? How
>>>complex could this be? You have a couple of bank accounts,
>>>a small stack of bills, a few credit cards, and a 401K
>>>statement. If you are doing more than that, then you are
>>>really over-thinking the process.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>Quicken lets you answer questions like ..."What was the name of that
>plumber we used in 1993?" "What did I pay for gas in 1999?"" Where
>was that nice Greek resto we ate at on the way to Aunt Sue's in 1995?"
>Beats poring over spreadsheets which probably won't have all the facts
>Quicken can store. Dynamite come tax time. Indispensible if you wanna
>really know how you're spending your money. You can even track cash
>if you are diligent about recording it.
> Balancing your checkbook takes only a few minutes. I'd hate to
>lose my Quicken.
>
>

Sounds like a lot more work than I'd care to do. Who really cares what
it cost to have lunch on 6/3/98?

Of course, a lot depends on the type / deductions one needs to track.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 7:21 pm
From: Dave Garland

tweeny90655@mypacks.net wrote:
> You can even track cash
> if you are diligent about recording it.

It's not hard to track cash, if you are diligent about recording it.
Therein lies the rub. For most of us, diligence lasts several hours,
maybe even a day or two.

But y'know, that plumber I used in 1993, he's probably dead by now, he
was pretty old and very overweight (his bit of wisdom was that to keep
your drains in good order, put some coffee grounds in them every once
in a while; I have no idea if that actually accomplishes anything or
not, my drains work pretty well even though I don't do it). Last I
heard, my roofer (who did a fine job at a reasonable price) was
driving a UPS truck. So I don't have any great reason to keep that
kind of track.

Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need help quick
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4783eea24078e302?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 5:16 pm
From: Marsha

It's been really cold here, below zero, and we have about a foot of snow
on the ground. Our 12-year-lab was just outside for less than one
minute and she started limping from the cold. We bought booties for her
a couple years ago, because she had the same problem, but they started
leaking and we threw them out. We also thought, in retrospect, that the
problem was salt on her paws, so we didn't replace the booties. We now
know it wasn't a salt problem. I plan on getting new booties tomorrow
after work, but that doesn't help now. Anyone have any quick solutions
to keep her paws from freezing when she has to go out?

Thanks a bunch.
Marsha

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 5:37 pm
From: im.1.maxaluminum@xoxy.net

On Jan 15, 8:16 pm, Marsha <m...@xeb.net> wrote:
> It's been really cold here, below zero, and we have about a foot of snow
> on the ground. Our 12-year-lab was just outside for less than one
> minute and she started limping from the cold. We bought booties for her
> a couple years ago, because she had the same problem, but they started
> leaking and we threw them out. We also thought, in retrospect, that the
> problem was salt on her paws, so we didn't replace the booties. We now
> know it wasn't a salt problem. I plan on getting new booties tomorrow
> after work, but that doesn't help now. Anyone have any quick solutions
> to keep her paws from freezing when she has to go out?
>
> Thanks a bunch.
> Marsha

That's what dogs do in cold. She will be OK. But you can use some old
socks and rubberbands on her feet. Kid's socks would work nicely. It's
not so much that ice and snow get in her feet as it is the cold on the
pads of her feet. Dogs get soft like people. As I say, the short time
will only be an inconvenience to her.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 6:05 pm
From: Steve Daniels

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:16:00 -0500, against all advice, something
compelled Marsha <mas@xeb.net>, to say:

> Anyone have any quick solutions
> to keep her paws from freezing when she has to go out?

Cut up an old towel, and tie the pieces onto her paws.
--

Real men don't text.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 7:54 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:16:00 -0500, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>It's been really cold here, below zero, and we have about a foot of snow
>on the ground. Our 12-year-lab was just outside for less than one
>minute and she started limping from the cold. We bought booties for her
>a couple years ago, because she had the same problem, but they started
>leaking and we threw them out. We also thought, in retrospect, that the
>problem was salt on her paws, so we didn't replace the booties. We now
>know it wasn't a salt problem. I plan on getting new booties tomorrow
>after work, but that doesn't help now. Anyone have any quick solutions
>to keep her paws from freezing when she has to go out?
>
>Thanks a bunch.
>Marsha

I have the same problem...

How cold was it? I saw a dog stuck to a fire hydrant...

One minute isn't going to be an issue. Put a tablespoon of brandy in
her water and warm her up when she comes in.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 6:57 pm
From: Marsha

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:16:00 -0500, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>
>> It's been really cold here, below zero, and we have about a foot of snow
>> on the ground. Our 12-year-lab was just outside for less than one
>> minute and she started limping from the cold. We bought booties for her
>> a couple years ago, because she had the same problem, but they started
>> leaking and we threw them out. We also thought, in retrospect, that the
>> problem was salt on her paws, so we didn't replace the booties. We now
>> know it wasn't a salt problem. I plan on getting new booties tomorrow
>> after work, but that doesn't help now. Anyone have any quick solutions
>> to keep her paws from freezing when she has to go out?
>>
>> Thanks a bunch.
>> Marsha
>
> I have the same problem...
>
> How cold was it? I saw a dog stuck to a fire hydrant...
>
> One minute isn't going to be an issue. Put a tablespoon of brandy in
> her water and warm her up when she comes in.

It's 8 below. Are you serious about the brandy? I assumed that
freezing paw pads were painful and, since she has some arthritis in her
spine, I don't want her any more uncomfortable than necessary. She
doesn't have the ice or snow clumps in between her toes, so that's not
the problem. So far, I think the sock/rubber band idea might work
temporarily.
Thanks,
Marsha

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Survivalism Retail Style
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:00 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:06:05 +0000 (UTC), EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com
wrote:

>In misc.survivalism Ed Huntress <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>> news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
>> > In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
>> >> inflation?
>> >
>> > Winston says Yes.
>
>> Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
>> (stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but you
>> can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same time.
>
>Yep. But try to tell him that, and he will change the subject.

You tell us you don't like the standard definitions so you make up
your own.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:04 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:20:06 -0800, Winston <Winston@bigbrother.net>
wrote:

>EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
>> In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
>>> inflation?
>>
>> Winston says Yes.
>
>Who?
>
>--Winston

I post in misc.survivalism (with cross posts) with a net name of
Winston Smith.

Wired has a hard on to tell me I'm all wrong about criticizing Bush's
economy. He seems to like it. Mostly he misquotes me and makes up
his own definitions when he is backed in a corner with the standard
ones.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hugo Boss Watch, Best Wristwatch
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c2008cf02231a1da?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:15 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sintra Watch, Best Wristwatch
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5dd92ca97be325fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:15 pm
From: bagsbags14@gmail.com

Sintra Watch, Best Wristwatch
Best Watches World: http://www.watches-world.net/
Rado Watches World: http://www.watches-world.net/Rado.html
Rado Sintra Watch : http://www.watches-world.net/Sintra.html

Rado traces its roots to Lengnau, Switzerland, and to three diligent
brothers who in 1917, began producing watch movements within their
parents' home. In 1947, Dr. Paul Luthi joined the growing company to
expand their Exacto brand. Further expansion was achieved after the
company's rebranding and the birth of the Rado name. In 1962, after
lengthy experimentation with new-age materials including tungsten and
titanium carbide, Rado produced the scratch-resistant Diastar. Through
continuous innovation, today's Rado watches are made of ceramic. The
patented ceramic is formed by mixing various powders, binding agents
and color additives into pressed molds that are fired and polished to
an adamantine luster with diamond powder.

Rado Sintra All Hot Luxury Wristwatch World :

Rado Sintra Mens Watch R13434152 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Rado-2192.html
Rado Sintra Ladies Watch R13578712 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Rado-2223.html
Rado Sintra Chronograph Mens Watch R13477152 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Rado-2193.html
Rado Sintra Ladies Watch R13334122 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Rado-2215.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Magico Watch, Best Wristwatch
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2dc3d93a7d4b1ab0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:16 pm
From: bagsbags14@gmail.com

Magico Watch, Best Wristwatch
Best Watches World: http://www.watches-world.net/
Magico Watches World: http://www.watches-world.net/Magico.html
Magico Magico Watch : http://www.watches-world.net/Magico.html

Magico Magico All Hot Luxury Wristwatch World :

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chronosport Lancia Stratos Watch, Best Wristwatch
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/de5859aab07eb28c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:16 pm
From: bagsbags14@gmail.com

Chronosport Lancia Stratos Watch, Best Wristwatch
Best Watches World: http://www.watches-world.net/
Girard-Perregaux Watches World: http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux.html
Girard-Perregaux Chronosport Lancia Stratos Watch :
http://www.watches-world.net/Chronosport_Lancia_Stratos.html

Since 1791 when J. F. Bautte created his first ultra-thin timepieces,
this Geneva master watchmaker has produced exceptional timepieces.
Constant Girard developed the wristwatch concept in 1880 after German
Emperor Wilhelm I ordered the novel timepieces for the German navy.
Although not immediately popular, the concept eventually took off and
in 1930, sales of wristwatches exceeded pocketwatches for the first
time.

Girard-Perregaux Chronosport Lancia Stratos All Hot Luxury Wristwatch
World :

Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk II To John Harrison Mens Watch
49910.0.51.7147 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-905.html
Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk II Mens Watch 49920.0.52.4144 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-903.html
Girard-Perregaux Rallye Monte Carlo Historique Mens Watch 80178-28-611-
FK6A :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-904.html
Girard-Perregaux World Timer Mens Watch 49850-53-251-BACD :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-915.html
Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk II To John Harrison Mens Watch
49910.0.53.6546 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-906.html
Girard-Perregaux Chronosport Lancia Stratos Mens Watch
49540.11.611.FK6A :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-882.html
Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk II Mens Watch 49920.0.51.6146 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-907.html
Girard-Perregaux World Timer Mens Watch 49850-52-151-BACD :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-912.html
Girard-Perregaux World Time Mens Watch 49800.0.53.6146A :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-911.html
Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk II Mens Watch 49920.0.51.4144 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-908.html
Girard-Perregaux Vintage 1945 Mens Watch 25840.0.53.1151 :
http://www.watches-world.net/Girard-Perregaux-913.html

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 10:39 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 14, 11:00 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> We all see suggestions that others offer that save a dime here, a
> nickel there.
>
> Well what frugal changes have you made that save at least a $100 a
> month?
>
> TMT

Well I am cheap...err...frugal too.

But it is a journey, not a destination, so I am always looking to
improve my lifestyle.

TMT

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 3:06 am
From: "Bill"

100 frugal changes which save $1 a month each.

Or 50 frugal changes which save $2 a month each.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
> We all see suggestions that others offer that save a dime here, a
> nickel there.
>
> Well what frugal changes have you made that save at least a $100 a
> month?
>
> TMT

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 10:23 am
From: me@privacy.net

I'm curious how many of you are TRACKING your finances

using Quicken on the computer?

use an online service like mint.com?

What?

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 11:39 am
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <anvum45kfta1gv4l4br5n7jkb710f4helu@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> I'm curious how many of you are TRACKING your finances
> using Quicken on the computer?
> use an online service like mint.com?

Unless you have a mega-corporation to manage, why not just
do it in a small spreadsheet? Or a yellow note pad? How
complex could this be? You have a couple of bank accounts,
a small stack of bills, a few credit cards, and a 401K
statement. If you are doing more than that, then you are
really over-thinking the process.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 12:12 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

h <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:gklooq$t9r$1@adenine.netfront.net...
>
> "Evelyn Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:496e3e2d$0$14297$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> > Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> >> We all see suggestions that others offer that save a dime here, a
> >> nickel there.
> >>
> >> Well what frugal changes have you made that save at least a $100 a
> >> month?
> >
> > It's hard to make changes to save that much when you've been frugal all
> > along. :-)
> >
>
> Agreed. I was reading an article in the local fishwrap about how to "be
more
> frugal". They offered 20 things you could either cut out or cut back on to
> save money. We don't have/do/spend money on any of them. They also
suggested
> dropping the thermostat to 65 in winter and 80 in summer. I laughed out
> loud. I've never set it above 55 in my life and we've never had AC in the
> house.
>
> We're at a loss as to what else we can cut.
>
>
Agreed here as well. I do have the thermostat set at 65 - at age 70 (in 3
weeks) and being disabled, have had to bump it up gradually over the past
few years due to increased problems with mobility. Never had AC -
occasionally a fan in the hotest days.

Don't smoke or drink or eat out or have a cell phone.. Use coupons at the
grocery, have a garden in the summer. My social entertainment is going to
Physical Therapy 3 times a week. Never had a new car. Use the libarary
instead of buying books.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 12:43 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

I made my own spread sheets. Expenditurs, income, propane usage - and
separate for medical records (changes) and food intake (calories, fiber,
sodium).

Spreadsheets are fun - but thats just me.

But I do my own taxes as well. Have to use that Accounting degree for
something.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 12:27 am
From: terryc

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:20:40 -0800, Sue Bilkens wrote:

> and if the usa decides to default on it's loans?

I hope you like walking and very plain food?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap things to do with your kids
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5687c834d5e2ac40?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 5:51 am
From: OldRoads

On Jan 14, 7:44 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> George wrote:
> >OldRoadswrote:
> >> You don't need to shell out big bucks taking your kids to an amusement
> >> park or water park, etc.
> >> There are plenty of other free things to do:
>
> >> - Take a hike
> >> - Ride your bicycles on the local Rail Trail
> >>http://www.trails.com/activities.aspx?area=12399
> >> - Go fishing
> >> - Go to the beach
> >> - Go camping
>
> >> Other ideas??
>
> >> Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles
> >>http://OldRoads.com
>
> > Use this to locate rail trails without a subscription fee as required in
> > the other site:
>
> >http://www.traillink.com/
>
> Thanks for that link. I can't believe how expensive trails.com is for
> information that is available free from other web sources.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wow, I didn't realize the trails.com link charged anything. I guess I
was thinking of was traillink.com.
Not too frugal of me, eh?

To combine a couple suggestions above, often you local library has
free passes to local museums.

Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles
http://OldRoads.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: what to do with old Dot Matrix printer?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/433f3de03338791a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 7:04 am
From: Siskuwihane

On Jan 12, 7:09 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I've got a roughly 19 year old Panasonic KXP-1124 dot matrix printer
<snip>
> Anyone have any thoughts on finally getting rid of something you've
> had for a long time, which still works, but seems slow?

One just sold on Ebay for $42. That's 2 tanks of gas (more or less).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap doesn't mean frugal.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/236d9191f133039a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:16 am
From: blake murphy

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:56:07 -0500, cybercat wrote:

> "blake murphy" <blakepmNOTTHIS@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:o9ejjpr1kckf.1lwuv9h7x3r6z$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:01:01 -0500, cybercat wrote:
>>
>>> "Kate Connally" <connally@pitt.edu> wrote
>>>> Well, it's still less scrap for the stockpot than with a whole
>>>> chicken. And then you don't have to figure out what to do with
>>>> the damned breasts. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> We have that Jack Sprat thing going on around here, only with light and
>>> dark
>>> meat.
>>
>> a match made in heaven, or at least close by.
>>
>
> Not quite, sugar britches. My heart belongs to you alone. Only my white meat
> goes to my husband.

he's entitled. i'll take what's left over.

your pal,
blake

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY vs professional lawn fertilizing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d473e343bec64813?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:32 am
From: cr113

I'm trying to decide whether to apply my own fertilizer and weed
control vs using a professional. I live in north alabama and have a
2,000 sq ft bermuda grass lawn. Last year I tried cheap fertilizer and
spot treating with roundup but it didn't work very well. This year I'm
either going to hire a pro or use high quality fertilizer.

The estimate I got for a pro was $40 per liquid application, 5
applications per year. The liquid contains pre-emerge, fertilizer, and
post-emerge.

If I go DIY I was going to use Fertilome granules with Barricade per-
emerge. Not sure what to use for post-emerge.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sales Taxes on Web Purchases
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9ed7426ab3321f7d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:39 am
From: Brian Elfert

Vic Smith <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> writes:

>I'm in Illinois.
>QVC is charging me sales tax. (HQ in PA)
>Cracker Barrel charged no tax (I know they have stores in Illinois)

Some companies have formed seperate companies that run their web site.
They have done this in part so the web company doesn't have to collect tax
in as many states.

If a ecommerce company hosts their web site on a company owned server
located in a third party data center in another state, do they have to
collect tax for that state?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 8:47 am
From: "h"

"Dave Garland" <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote in message
news:GoGdnUeCga6QPfPUnZ2dnUVZ_rLinZ2d@posted.visi...
> Vic Smith wrote:
>> In any case, I can see the automatic tax collection angle from both
>> sides, and don't have a strong opinion about it.
>
> Aargh, as somebody who sometimes has to collect tax, I do. There are
> something like 40,000 different taxing jurisdictions in the USA. They
> all have different rules about how much, what the tax applies to, what
> form you need to fill out, where to send the money. Even in the local
> area where I live, there's, lessee, 1) state tax (6.5%); 2) countywide
> tax for rich sports team owner (0.15%); 3) city tax (0.5%); 4) metro
> area transit/road tax (0.15%). Fortunately, I report them all on the
> same one form and the state divvies up the money, but I need to keep
> the records about how much for each. There is *no* easy way to tell
> where any particular address falls in this mess, the taxes do not go
> along zipcode boundaries.
>
> Now, multiply this by thousands of other greedy taxing authorities
> around the country. If I did a significant mail-order business, I
> could quite honestly spend all my time just sorting out the sales taxes.
>
> If we're going to collect taxes for this crap, the government(s)
> should be required to 1) all agree on exactly what is taxable and what
> isn't (here, a pint bottle of water is taxable, but not a gallon
> bottle); 2) all agree on a single rate of taxes to be charged on
> purchases; and 3) provide a single address to which I can send a check
> along with a printout of, say, amounts and zipcodes, and they (not me)
> take responsibility for sorting out who gets what.
>
> You touched a nerve there ;->
>
> Dave

Yup. Years ago, when I did the fair circuit, I used to have to collect sales
tax in 5 different states, with different tax amounts and different
reporting requirements (monthly, quarterly, annually). However, NY was the
only big problem. The forms for the other 4 states were pretty straight
forward, one side of one sheet, and could be filled out in a few minutes. NY
had different taxes for each county as well as different rates for different
items, and you had to break down all amounts for each county on the 6 page
8½x11 form. It took about 5 hours to fill out the form and check it against
my figures. It almost never came out to the penny. I had to do this 4 times
a year. Now that I don't travel it's SO much easier to do the taxes. I only
have to fill out the forms for my county in NY, since all NY sales are
considered to be from my county. I still have to break out the two different
rates, but it's still MUCH easier.

This is on top of the time required to record all the info at the time of
the sale and then log it in the computer later at home so I'd have all the
info at tax time.

I wouldn't mind collecting and remitting sales tax on internet sales, but it
would have to be streamlined. Expecting small businesses to charge and remit
taxes to individual counties or even states is insane.

Applying for the sales tax license is a hassle and usually has a $25 fee.
That's $1,225.00 for the 49 other states (assuming you only have a license
in your home state). Then there's the many hours of sorting out individual
forms and making sure that you don't miss a deadline. Failing to file a tax
form even if no tax is due results in a $50 fine. Requiring small businesses
to collect sales tax on internet sales could put a lot of us out of business
unless it is implemented uniformly.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 9:28 am
From: Dave Garland

h wrote:
> Applying for the sales tax license is a hassle and usually has a $25 fee.

At least Minnesota has got that part right. It's a one-sheet form,
and doesn't cost anything to register.

Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Q on Equity line
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/498fd17b6b88d192?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 9:09 am
From: irfanroberts@gmail.com

Q on Equity line
*****************************

We have a rental property ( townhome) that is fully paid up.
It has been continually rented for many years.

I would like to get an equity line- just in case the situation arises
where we need cash.
I called Schwab and they indicated that they do not have equity lines
on "rental property".

Can anyone please let me know which banks / institutions offer such
lines of equity on "rental properties"?
and if so are there any pointers ie do's and dont's.

The property is in the SF, Bay Area, CA.

Thanks in advance,

Irfan Roberts

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 9:19 am
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article
<e1cde600-6467-4451-9f81-7adb71601e62@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
irfanroberts@gmail.com wrote:

> I would like to get an equity line- just in case the situation arises
> where we need cash.
> I called Schwab and they indicated that they do not have equity lines
> on "rental property".
>
> Can anyone please let me know which banks / institutions offer such
> lines of equity on "rental properties"?
> and if so are there any pointers ie do's and dont's.

Any traditional bank and most commercial mortgage lenders will
do H/E loans and lines of credit on rental property. The rates
are typically a point or two higher in income property, but
right now, that should still be pretty low.

Keep in mind that a line of credit might not do what you want.
In order to get large sums of money from a line of credit, you
sometimes have to get approval from the lender. If your
situation takes a turn for the south, and you need to get this
money, the lender can say no. There is also the risk that the
lender will simply cancel the line of credit just when you need
it the most. The the solution is to take the money now and
invest it in some fixed income vehicle. It will cost you if
your return is less than the loan interest, but it is a sure
thing since you have the cash in hand already.

-john-

==============================================================================
TOPIC: free rubbers. Planned Parenthood
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/38d53104d2fd9e29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 9:10 am
From: doc marten

Planned Parenthood; Let every child be wanted;
P.P. offers these ;
birth control, vasectomies, annual exams, pap/cancer screenings, HIV/STD
tests,
pregnancy testing, colposcopy , 1st trimester abortions, HPV vaccine,and
emergency birth control.
Support its efforts.
thanks.
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: classic Mobile Home q.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/64184a7b40f05c3d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 9:53 am
From: doc marten

In article
<georgewkspam-F4F7AF.18552709012009@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
doc marten <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:

> In article
> <dcef1912-1217-4241-8eca-32e2319aade9@f40g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> MSfortune@mcpmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 12:15 am, doc marten <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote:
> > > we have a '59 Rex Mobile home and we love it. but I was curious.
> > > why does it have complete running lights , two permanent axles , electric
> > > brakes and hitch . It is 45 x 10 ?
> > > No ones going traveling with this monster. It's a long , long long
> > > trailer. It features a lot on built ins. like cabinets and a full
> > > kitchen not the construction office type.
> > > --
> > > When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
> > > that's Evolution.
> >
> > You are truly living life large, Doc.
> > That's 450 square feet not counting the deduction for partitions and
> > the 1" wall thickness, kitchen cabinets and such.
>
> well, the first thing we did was additions and various outbuildings. Of
> course. but ya know I have no idea what the total sq. footage is.

and boy, did we insulate. and add a wood stove (radiant heat)
and our Micro-climate is so gentle on the body. today it's 70 F.
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 9:57 am
From: me@privacy.net

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>No wonder they have to
>pay celebrities to push on infomercials & sell it via Walmart. It's
>crap. DON'T even think about it.

Ok thanks so much for heads up!

I will stick with HP printer then

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap sell:nike shoes:$32,handbag:$35,NFL:$20,jean:$30,UGG boot:$50,(
FREE SHIPPING)FROM WWW.IOFFERKICKS.COM
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f1e9daf59cf4cfa3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 10:27 am
From: "www.iofferkicks.com"

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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 11:11 am
From: doc marten

Yes, they said it in their latest column.
That it's Never cheaper even in the long run to buy a New Car.
and it you want proof.
get their book "How to buy a great used car",, you might find it on'
www.cartalk.com
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 11:37 am
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article
<georgewkspam-ECA0E1.11113215012009@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
doc marten <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:

I always used to get a new vehicle every 2-1/2 years by trading
in my old Ford Ranger for a new one. I drive 30K+ miles each
year, so I use up vehicles quickly. When I traded in #7, I felt
like they really ripped me (actually, I allowed to happen) since
I got what I thought was little for a truck that looked and drove
like new. As a result, with #8, I am running the wheels off of
this one. I just turned over 248,000. Other than one ding, it
looks and drives like a spring chicken. Yes, it has had to have
some repairs along the way, but as long as the engine is strong
and the transmission works, I'll keep doing small repairs. From
my math, I figure that I have gotten over 3 new vehicles worth
of service out of this one truck compared to what I used to
get, so if it cost $14K to trade, I have saved $28K. I put
maybe $5K into it since I had it.

-john-

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 11:40 am
From: SMS

doc marten wrote:
> Yes, they said it in their latest column.
> That it's Never cheaper even in the long run to buy a New Car.

They are mistaken. You need to do a spreadsheet of depreciation,
reliability and predicted out of warranty repair costs, and the street
price of the vehicle new versus used.

It's true that if you're going to buy a vehicle with terrible resale
value, i.e. something from the big 3 or one of the second tier Japanese
manufacturers, you're probably better off buying used. If you're buying
a three year old Toyota or Honda you're paying a big premium for the
brand name yet you're getting no warranty. Furthermore, someone selling
a three year old Honda or Toyota is likely the type of person that paid
way too much for it when it was new, and is counting on someone that
would be overpaying for a new one to buy his or her used one.

I remember looking at some used Camrys when we bought a new one. A one
year old Camry was about $1000 more than a new one, a two year old was
about $500 more than a new one, and a three year old was about
$500-$1000 less than a new one, depending on the mileage. Even though it
was a Toyota, there was still one warranty repair we needed, something
that was a common failure on that generation of Toyota. Had we bought
the three year old model and saved $500, we would have paid for a $400
repair.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 11:46 am
From: "Rod Speed"

doc marten wrote:
> Yes, they said it in their latest column.
> That it's Never cheaper even in the long run to buy a New Car.

They're wrong, it can sometimes be cheaper in the long run to buy a new
car, particularly when the car is seeing stupid prices paid for the used cars.

> and it you want proof. get their book "How to buy a great used car",,

Just because they say it doesnt qualify as anything like proof.

> you might find it on'
> www.cartalk.com

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 15 2009 1:41 pm
From: "Dave"

You noticed that too? I remember being on a Honda dealer's lot, and used
Accords were priced thousands higher than new ones. WHAT?!? -Dave

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 20 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 3:46 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

Here's a chart I posted a few years ago:

I was trying to weed out some out-of-date books I never use and as I
flipped through the 1982 "Information Age Sourcebook" (no mention of
computers in THAT book) I found this chart, which might be quite
useful!

"Based on yields of cooked chicken.....the uncooked chicken weighed
2.75 lbs."

If a whole fryer costs 49 cents/lb:

Breast half without rib should cost 67

" " WITH rib should cost 65

Thighs should cost 55

Thighs & drumsticks should cost 53

Drumsticks should cost 50

Wings should cost 39.

If the fryer costs 51 cents/lb, prices are 70, 67, 57, 55, 53, 41.

Fryer at 53 cents: 72, 70, 59, 57, 55, 43.

Fryer at 55 cents: 75, 73, 61, 59, 57, 44.

" " 57 " : 78, 75, 63, 61, 59, 46.

" " 59 " : 80, 78, 66, 63, 61, 48.

" " 61 " : 83, 81, 68, 66, 63, 49.

" " 63 " : 86, 83, 70, 68, 65, 51.

That's not the entire chart, but I hope it will do. Note that the
ratios change a bit as you move down the chart.

(end)

Here are some responses to that:

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fe06ce5e86022833/b4b2083b4d77f0cf?lnk=gst&q=lenona+chicken+chart#b4b2083b4d77f0cf

Lenona.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 4:01 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:45:28 -0800 (PST), Seerialmom
<seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jan 10, 10:42 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>> Just did a yearly T-Mobile refill.
>> Noticed my $10.00 refill cost $11.01, which reflects the local sales
>> tax rate. Cook County, IL.
>> The refills weren't taxed a couple years ago.
>> Seems some web purchases add the tax, others don't.
>> Anybody know what's going on with this?
>> Wonder how it will affect web sales.
>>
>> --Vic
>
>At this point it usually depends on where you live and whether the
>company has a "presence" in your state (if they have brick/mortar
>stores). States are pushing for sales tax collection for web sales
>because they're hurting for tax revenue. In California "technically"
>you're supposed to claim "use tax" on your taxes if you buy something
>outside of the state, too (but who keeps track when you pay cash just
>over the border in Oregon?).

Yes, others have said the same.
But I think some web sales firms are collecting the buyer's
state/local taxes even when they have no presence in the buyer's
state, and others aren't. Just seems I've noticed that, and I'm not
sure.
Okay I looked at some of my web order receipts, which I save to disk.

I'm in Illinois.
QVC is charging me sales tax. (HQ in PA)
Cracker Barrel charged no tax (I know they have stores in Illinois)

There's some inconsistency there, and I'm not sure why.
I think the state taxing bodies are working with some web sales
companies to collect taxes, or vice versa.
But as I said, I don't have a real handle on it.
In any case, I can see the automatic tax collection angle from both
sides, and don't have a strong opinion about it.

--Vic

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 4:09 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:01:20 -0600, Vic Smith
<thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:45:28 -0800 (PST), Seerialmom
><seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 10, 10:42 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>> Just did a yearly T-Mobile refill.
>>> Noticed my $10.00 refill cost $11.01, which reflects the local sales
>>> tax rate. Cook County, IL.
>>> The refills weren't taxed a couple years ago.
>>> Seems some web purchases add the tax, others don't.
>>> Anybody know what's going on with this?
>>> Wonder how it will affect web sales.
>>>
>>> --Vic
>>
>>At this point it usually depends on where you live and whether the
>>company has a "presence" in your state (if they have brick/mortar
>>stores). States are pushing for sales tax collection for web sales
>>because they're hurting for tax revenue. In California "technically"
>>you're supposed to claim "use tax" on your taxes if you buy something
>>outside of the state, too (but who keeps track when you pay cash just
>>over the border in Oregon?).
>
>Yes, others have said the same.
>But I think some web sales firms are collecting the buyer's
>state/local taxes even when they have no presence in the buyer's
>state, and others aren't. Just seems I've noticed that, and I'm not
>sure.
>Okay I looked at some of my web order receipts, which I save to disk.
>
>I'm in Illinois.
>QVC is charging me sales tax. (HQ in PA)
>Cracker Barrel charged no tax (I know they have stores in Illinois)
>
>There's some inconsistency there, and I'm not sure why.
>I think the state taxing bodies are working with some web sales
>companies to collect taxes, or vice versa.
>But as I said, I don't have a real handle on it.
>In any case, I can see the automatic tax collection angle from both
>sides, and don't have a strong opinion about it.
>
Forgot to add, I checked the T-Mobile refill I got in August 2008 for
my wife's phone. Same website, but no tax charged.
Yet on Jan 10, 2009 they charged tax.
They do have plenty of brick/mortar presence her.
But they did in August too.
Something to ponder anyway. I think states are cracking down on some
web companies, and "coercing" them to apply the tax according to
customer address. Or some companies are just doing it preemptively.
Just a guess, though.

--Vic

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 6:33 pm
From: Dave Garland

Vic Smith wrote:
> In any case, I can see the automatic tax collection angle from both
> sides, and don't have a strong opinion about it.

Aargh, as somebody who sometimes has to collect tax, I do. There are
something like 40,000 different taxing jurisdictions in the USA. They
all have different rules about how much, what the tax applies to, what
form you need to fill out, where to send the money. Even in the local
area where I live, there's, lessee, 1) state tax (6.5%); 2) countywide
tax for rich sports team owner (0.15%); 3) city tax (0.5%); 4) metro
area transit/road tax (0.15%). Fortunately, I report them all on the
same one form and the state divvies up the money, but I need to keep
the records about how much for each. There is *no* easy way to tell
where any particular address falls in this mess, the taxes do not go
along zipcode boundaries.

Now, multiply this by thousands of other greedy taxing authorities
around the country. If I did a significant mail-order business, I
could quite honestly spend all my time just sorting out the sales taxes.

If we're going to collect taxes for this crap, the government(s)
should be required to 1) all agree on exactly what is taxable and what
isn't (here, a pint bottle of water is taxable, but not a gallon
bottle); 2) all agree on a single rate of taxes to be charged on
purchases; and 3) provide a single address to which I can send a check
along with a printout of, say, amounts and zipcodes, and they (not me)
take responsibility for sorting out who gets what.

You touched a nerve there ;->

Dave

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 4:26 pm
From: gerrijensen@gmail.com

I found lots of ideas for free or very cheap family fun activities,
they change every month, at Families Online Magazine,
http://www.familiesonlinemagazine.com - see the Family Fun and Kid Fun
Crafts - very cute crafts for wintertime when we are all getting cabin
fever!

On Jan 12, 8:59 am, OldRoads <oldro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You don't need to shell out big bucks taking your kids to an amusement
> park or water park, etc.
> There are plenty of other free things to do:
>
> - Take a hike
> - Ride your bicycles on the local Rail Trailhttp://www.trails.com/activities.aspx?area=12399
> - Go fishing
> - Go to the beach
> - Go camping
>
> Other ideas??
>
> Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycleshttp://OldRoads.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 4:44 pm
From: SMS

George wrote:
> OldRoads wrote:
>> You don't need to shell out big bucks taking your kids to an amusement
>> park or water park, etc.
>> There are plenty of other free things to do:
>>
>> - Take a hike
>> - Ride your bicycles on the local Rail Trail
>> http://www.trails.com/activities.aspx?area=12399
>> - Go fishing
>> - Go to the beach
>> - Go camping
>>
>> Other ideas??
>>
>> Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles
>> http://OldRoads.com
>>
>>
> Use this to locate rail trails without a subscription fee as required in
> the other site:
>
> http://www.traillink.com/

Thanks for that link. I can't believe how expensive trails.com is for
information that is available free from other web sources.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 5:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

> We all see suggestions that others offer that save a dime here, a nickel there.

> Well what frugal changes have you made that save at least a $100 a month?

None, zero, nada, ziltch. Dont need to.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 6:10 pm
From: clams_casino

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

>We all see suggestions that others offer that save a dime here, a
>nickel there.
>
>Well what frugal changes have you made that save at least a $100 a
>month?
>
>TMT
>
>

Significantly reducing travel (motels) and eating out significantly less
cut several thousand from our 2008 expenditures.

Otherwise, we practice being frugal on a daily basis, so the big
reductions were made years ago. I'm pleased that our 2008 grocery
expenses were only 1% above 2007 (primarily because an Aldie's moved
into our area).

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 6:15 pm
From: clams_casino

skarkada@gmail.com wrote:

>TMT, out lifestyle is frugal. We haven't made many recent frugal
>changes that have saved us $100 per month.
>
>Most recent changes:
>Switched the cell phone to pay-as-you-go service.
>Eat out less often. (Less than once a week.)
>
>Never started:
>Buying breakfast
>
>
>
We started eating out breakfast vs. lunch or supper a few years ago. We
enjoy it much more, plus a breakfast is a typically much lower priced
than a typical night time meal.

We now have almost no desire to eat out at night - typically too much
food, too costly, don't sleep all that well on a full stomach & have
come to just not enjoying it..

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 10:39 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

Well I am cheap...err...frugal too.

But it is a journey, not a destination, so I am always looking to
improve my lifestyle.

TMT

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TOPIC: Thomas Wylde Oxford Duffle Skull Bag White Collection
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/617d18b27535b6e1?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 6:04 pm
From: clams_casino

me@privacy.net wrote:

>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Considering the crap cameras & printers that Kodak has been trying to
>>sell over the past 20 years (the company is down to about 15k employees
>>
>>
>>from over 100k perhaps 10 years ago), I'd be very leery of buying any
>
>
>>product with their name on it.
>>
>>
>
>Hmmm.... OK
>
>Are their printers really crap as well? I'm in market
>for printer and looked at Kodak printers based on their
>claims of cheap ink... but if printer crap that's no
>good either
>
>

I bought one this past summer with the potential for reduced ink cost.
It was nothing but problems where i finally dumped it after a few months.

For a start, it took about two weeks of daily (automatic) installations
before it finally settled down to my computer. It was painfully slow
and it's gimmick for low cost is that it simply puts out a minimum of
ink. The fast draft on my current HP is darker than the full best
print mode on the Kodak unit. That's probably OK if faint copies with
skips are acceptable, but I print a lot of postage labels that
concerned me as to whether the PO could read the faint print. The
biggest problem, however, was that at least one in ten prints would not
print because the unit could not judge the paper size - very annoying.
Printing the back side (refeeding a printed sheet) worked perhaps half
the time. About one in twenty would simply jamb. Did I say it was S
L O W? They make a real crappy printer. No wonder they have to
pay celebrities to push on infomercials & sell it via Walmart. It's
crap. DON'T even think about it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 6:05 pm
From: clams_casino

me@privacy.net wrote:

>clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Well the ones my local Big Lot had were Kodak brand and
>>>had use by dates of 2013 or so
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Considering the crap cameras & printers that Kodak has been trying to
>>sell over the past 20 years (the company is down to about 15k employees
>>
>>
>>from over 100k perhaps 10 years ago), I'd be very leery of buying any
>
>
>>product with their name on it.
>>
>>
>
>I just assumed the Kodak batteries were made by
>Duracell or Energizer as I didn't think Kodak had a
>facility to make their own batteries. yes?
>
>
They are likely made in some factory in China as much of their stuff is
made there today.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gucci Medium Handbag Black 189893 Collection
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a7b19988c9f82fbf?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Exercises to be free from double Chin, sagging cheeks, crow's feet,
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8a1aff5044aef746?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 6:35 pm
From: Arumugham

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Visit for more
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 7:40 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <23opm49lk1j3s4gomi6t36aodom8s4kkrf@4ax.com>,
<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>Although the Panasonics were common as dirt, the curve has bottomed
>out on dot matrix printers. Most people have dumped them, and those
>who still need them are now having to pay higher prices for used ones.
>The higher end Okis in like-new condition are being sold at better
>than half the price of a new one.

Hmmm... Maybe I need to dust off the Microline 93...

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

"Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man"
General of the Army (four stars) Ann Dunwoody

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale New NiKE Air Jordan 24(30$) Free Shipping at www.cicigogo.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/77031a24c1e04092?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 10:18 pm
From: Sue Bilkens

the usa is going down the shitter.... one more terrorist state down many more to
go.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:07:05 +0000 (UTC), in misc.consumers.frugal-living
EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

>In misc.survivalism Strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote:
>
>> Over the next five years or so, every asset, everything of value on
>> the planet, will be assessed and revalued. In monetary terms some of
>> these will go up while most will go down.
>
>Massive deflation, eh? That would not surprise me. People will become
>very tight with cash, and will have to be enticed by low prices to give it
>up.
>
>You have a very different viewpoint from the folks who are predicting
>hyper and stagflation.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 10:20 pm
From: Sue Bilkens

On 13 Jan 2009 20:17:09 GMT, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Curly Surmudgeon
<CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:

> That doesn't mean the dollar price will
>decline, in fact (with inflation), home prices could rise dramatically.

and if the usa decides to default on it's loans?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jan 14 2009 10:38 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:20:40 -0800, Sue Bilkens wrote:

> On 13 Jan 2009 20:17:09 GMT, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Curly
> Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>
>> That doesn't mean the dollar price will
>>decline, in fact (with inflation), home prices could rise dramatically.
>
>
> and if the usa decides to default on it's loans?

With sufficient inflation the National Debt ceases to be a problem.

Two weeks ago 500 _B_illion Mozambique Dollars bought a couple dozen
loaves of bread. This week the same $500,000,000,000.00 Dollars buys
half a loaf.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush. Like a Rock. Only Dumber.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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