Frugal Living: Sep 2, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Where are the Christians found in the Political Jungle? I wonder where
Jesus would be found
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f7398d093bb936b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 9:04 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"

On Sep 1, 8:03 pm, livvy <go...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 10:38 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of
>
>
>
> the Jungle" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > They call it the Political Compass, but what would be of you in the
> > jungle without a compass?
>
> > "There's abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional
> > categories of 'right' and 'left', established for the seating
> > arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly
> > simplistic for today's complex political landscape."
>
> >http://www.politicalcompass.org/index
>
> > I bet most Christians are found in the Conservative Right Wing
> > Quadrant, which is to say they SUPPORT THE AUTHORITARIAN LION and
> > OPPOSE THE LIBERTARIAN MONKEY bent on evolution...
>
> > Am I right or wrong? The right is wrong, right?
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > "Take the test and take off the camouflage"
>
> >http://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart.php?showform
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> get over yourself, there is nothing in the real world that gives a
> crap if you are "right or wrong"...it's up to you. And yet you can't
> seem to get over you.....that may be your problem. hmmmm..

I wonder where Jesus would be found.

Communist? Right Libertarian, Anarchist or Republican?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 8:47 am
From: clare@snyder.on.ca

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:51:34 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the
TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"
<comandante.banana@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sep 1, 6:18 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:06:16 -0400, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 9/1/2010 5:01 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the
>> >Jungle wrote:
>> >> They call it the Political Compass, but what would be of you in the
>> >> jungle without a compass?
>>
>> >> "There's abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional
>> >> categories of 'right' and 'left', established for the seating
>> >> arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly
>> >> simplistic for today's complex political landscape."
>>
>> >>http://www.politicalcompass.org/index
>>
>> >> I bet most Christians are found in the Conservative Right Wing
>> >> Quadrant, which is to say they SUPPORT THE AUTHORITARIAN LION and
>> >> OPPOSE THE LIBERTARIAN MONKEY bent on evolution...
>>
>> >> Am I right or wrong? The right is wrong, right?
>>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> >> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>>
>> >> "Take the test and take off the camouflage"
>>
>> >>http://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart.php?showform
>>
>> >>http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>>
>> >You know there are people who are conservative yet aren't religious at all.
>>
>> And there are those who are religiously conservative, yet prophess no
>> religion at all. Their politics IS their religion - and that is true
>> of both liberal and conservative - or if you like, right or left.
>>
>> And there those who are religious - even Christian, who are not
>> political at all - as well as those who whould be considered liberal
>> in their politics.
>>
>> The USA doesn't even know what liberal and conservative means any more
>> - and which party is really on which side, and even LESS what
>> constitutes the "right" or the "left"
>> A commie in every corner is still the essence of the american Psyche.
>
>Witch-hunting is still a national sport. But now the terrorists are
>filling the void left by the demise of the communist threat.
The fear of "socialism is still alive and well - and RAMPANT in the
US ofA

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 11:54 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"

On Sep 2, 8:47 am, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:51:34 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the
> TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"
>
>
>
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Sep 1, 6:18 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> >> On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:06:16 -0400, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On 9/1/2010 5:01 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the
> >> >Jungle wrote:
> >> >> They call it the Political Compass, but what would be of you in the
> >> >> jungle without a compass?
>
> >> >> "There's abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional
> >> >> categories of 'right' and 'left', established for the seating
> >> >> arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly
> >> >> simplistic for today's complex political landscape."
>
> >> >>http://www.politicalcompass.org/index
>
> >> >> I bet most Christians are found in the Conservative Right Wing
> >> >> Quadrant, which is to say they SUPPORT THE AUTHORITARIAN LION and
> >> >> OPPOSE THE LIBERTARIAN MONKEY bent on evolution...
>
> >> >> Am I right or wrong? The right is wrong, right?
>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >> >> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> >> >> "Take the test and take off the camouflage"
>
> >> >>http://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart.php?showform
>
> >> >>http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> >> >You know there are people who are conservative yet aren't religious at all.
>
> >> And there are those who are religiously conservative, yet prophess no
> >> religion at all. Their politics IS their religion - and that is true
> >> of both liberal and conservative - or if you like, right or left.
>
> >> And there those who are religious - even Christian, who are not
> >> political at all - as well as those who whould be considered liberal
> >> in their politics.
>
> >> The USA doesn't even know what liberal and conservative means any more
> >> - and which party is really on which side, and even LESS what
> >> constitutes the "right" or the "left"
> >> A commie in every corner is still the essence of the american Psyche.
>
> >Witch-hunting is still a national sport. But now the terrorists are
> >filling the void left by the demise of the communist threat.
>
> The fear of "socialism is still alive and well - and RAMPANT in the
> US ofA

Well, they don't know exactly what it means. It could mean something
like Canada or Cambodia or Venezuela...

Little do they know that thanks to socialism it costs 2 bucks to fill
a tank of gas in Venezuela. Even America is far behind. ;)

By the way, Jesus was a communist.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 12:17 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"

On Sep 2, 11:54 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of
the Jungle" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 8:47 am, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:51:34 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the
> > TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"
>
> > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >On Sep 1, 6:18 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:06:16 -0400, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >> >On 9/1/2010 5:01 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the
> > >> >Jungle wrote:
> > >> >> They call it the Political Compass, but what would be of you in the
> > >> >> jungle without a compass?
>
> > >> >> "There's abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional
> > >> >> categories of 'right' and 'left', established for the seating
> > >> >> arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly
> > >> >> simplistic for today's complex political landscape."
>
> > >> >>http://www.politicalcompass.org/index
>
> > >> >> I bet most Christians are found in the Conservative Right Wing
> > >> >> Quadrant, which is to say they SUPPORT THE AUTHORITARIAN LION and
> > >> >> OPPOSE THE LIBERTARIAN MONKEY bent on evolution...
>
> > >> >> Am I right or wrong? The right is wrong, right?
>
> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > >> >> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > >> >> "Take the test and take off the camouflage"
>
> > >> >>http://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart.php?showform
>
> > >> >>http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> > >> >You know there are people who are conservative yet aren't religious at all.
>
> > >> And there are those who are religiously conservative, yet prophess no
> > >> religion at all. Their politics IS their religion - and that is true
> > >> of both liberal and conservative - or if you like, right or left.
>
> > >> And there those who are religious - even Christian, who are not
> > >> political at all - as well as those who whould be considered liberal
> > >> in their politics.
>
> > >> The USA doesn't even know what liberal and conservative means any more
> > >> - and which party is really on which side, and even LESS what
> > >> constitutes the "right" or the "left"
> > >> A commie in every corner is still the essence of the american Psyche.
>
> > >Witch-hunting is still a national sport. But now the terrorists are
> > >filling the void left by the demise of the communist threat.
>
> > The fear of "socialism is still alive and well - and RAMPANT in the
> > US ofA
>
> Well, they don't know exactly what it means. It could mean something
> like Canada or Cambodia or Venezuela...
>
> Little do they know that thanks to socialism it costs 2 bucks to fill
> a tank of gas in Venezuela. Even America is far behind. ;)
>
> By the way, Jesus was a communist.

Hey, let me back this up with real facts...

The Gospel According to St. Matthew
d. Pier Palo Pasolini
In sharp contrast to other Jesus movies, Pasolini's Jesus is more
semitic looking (though an Italian) and less assuming than the blonde,
blue-eyed Jeremy Sisto and Jeffrey Hunter of other Jesus movies. The
movie itself is very deliberately paced and presents Jesus as a man of
the people and revolutionary. Pasolini's Marxist ideology informs some
of this presentation. Particularly well-done is the temptation of
Jesus in the desert, wherein an unassuming hermit, rather than a more
obvious Satan figure, tempts him. Sparse production but extremely
poignant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ZQXJNH8q4&NR=1

----------------------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"Pharisees and hypocrites are camouflaged in the jungle"

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I GOT $5000 FROM PAYPAL BY SIMPLE HACK.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f22da8ae389d16f6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 3:42 am
From: surekha

I GOT $5000 FROM PAYPAL BY SIMPLE HACK At http://happyandeasy.co.cc

Due to high security risks, i have hidden the PayPal Form link in an
image. in that website On RIGHT SIDE Below search box , click on
image and enter your PAYPAL id And Your name.

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TOPIC: UPS screwing with my medicine
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52e2fdabac430e07?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:15 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <82f6a223f85e4263c57f97a254f24187@anonymitaet-im-inter.net>,
Dave U. Random <anonymous@anonymitaet-im-inter.net> wrote:

> Many past complaints against package delivery service U.P.S.
>
> They delivered food suppl_ements and vit-amins that have been altered
> with, re-packaged with some chemical spill on the original package and
> contents smelled bad and hot to the touch.
>
> I suspect this was done intentionally due to past several complaints
> about the very poor service of U.P.S.
>
> What government agency(ies), if any, will investigate and respond to
> this situation if I complain?
>
> Even though my money damages are small, this has caused me alot
> of time and grief getting a refund and I was made sick by consuming a
> few of the supplments I had taken in the past with no problem. Is there
> any legal recourse through a consumer attorney?

Try a different shipping carrier. If your pharmacy won't use a different
carrier, that's their problem so tell them to either ship their products
too you differently or you will not do business with them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In the beginning God created the Chicken that laid the Egg
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bc04a66ed069c4a2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 7:56 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"

This would solve the old dilemma of who was first. The Bible says he
created the animals, and later they found a way to reproduce.

We are assuming though that God didn't make the egg for human
consumption. Then God served scrambled eggs & grits to Adam & Eve in
true Southern Style and said, "You can eat anything except from the
Tree of Knowledge because that would make you smart." And the rest is
history...

--------------------------------------------------------------

THE SPIRITS OF THE JUNGLE SPEAK THROUGH THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY

"What's cooking for dinner is an old question, older than Adam & Eve"

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

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TOPIC: HOT PHOTOS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b698c3273b433621?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 9:22 am
From: RAMYA

ASTHASINGAL IN A BATHROOM

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/asthasingal-in-bath.html

SNEHA HOT SEX PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/sneha-hot-sexy-photos.html

ARTHICHABRIA BEAUTIFUL PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/aarthi-chabria-hot-photos.html

ANUSHKA UNBELIVABLE PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/anuskha-sex-images.html

THRISHA HOT WET PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/thrisha-hot-wet-photos.html

NAMITHA EXTORDINARY PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/nayagarala-namitha.html

SHRIYA SARAN SEXY PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/shriya-saran-hot-photos.html

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TOPIC: Do you agree with the Christians that we are living in the End Times? --
improving traffic safety
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3c3b95c6195168f8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 11:46 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"

On Sep 2, 9:37 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:4668ef32-c69b-4548-bcb0-
> 084448f21...@a17g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
>
> > So it doesn't matter whether you ride a bike or drive an SUV. What do
> > you propose, to waste some more to fight the Environazis? Do your
> > contribution to ride a bike make you an Environazi? Is America
> > fighting the Environazis, in a fight of Good vs. Evil?
>
> > Many questions arise...
>
> Let's start with you and me.....
>
> I have 4 vehicles to chose from:
> a Honda Reflex 250cc, 1 cyl, 18hp scooter that gets around 70mpg driving
> it like I stole it.
>
> a Smart Fortwo Passion Coupe with 1000cc, 3 cylinder gas engine that gets
> about 45 mpg around town.
>
> a '83 Mercedes 300TD diesel station wagon that runs on 1 part mineral
> spirits to 50 parts filtered used cooking oil from 3 Chinese restaurants.
>
> an '89 Union City Body, Chevy chassis diesel stepvan with a 6.2L diesel
> V-8 running on pure filtered used cooking oil after the first 2 miles of
> diesel fuel with an installed Frybrid (www.frybrid.com) vegoil heating
> system. I bought 20 gallons of diesel for the initial crankup last
> January and still have 12 gallons of that left.
>
> My total consumption for all 4 vehicles from Big Oil is about 12-16
> gallons per month, mostly in the Smart's 8 gallon tank.
>
> List your vehicles and their consumption for us to compare....
>
> ....your turn.....

Good, then you are PLAYING IT SAFE or perhaps keeping an eye on your
pocket. But energy is TOO CHEAP in America to care about it, and most
people simply let it run down the drain.

Going around in a scooter is an excellent choice, not sure how dirty
are those motors but it saves a lot. Bicycling would be an even better
choice for shorter distances.

So you don't believe in man-made climate change, but are frugal
nevertheless. We are forced to drive due to our deadly, hostile roads.
Riding a bicycle on the road is our of the question. Not much we can
do about it other than wait that things change or get a smaller car.
We are two and a Smart remains our favorite, even when traffic remains
stupid and dangerous. I've seen several motorcycle accidents that made
me sell my scooter.

I've got many campaigns in one --one being against God-- but IMPROVING
TRAFFIC SAFETY is my favorite. I'll probably fly away in a nice
scooter and you won't hear from me again. ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: paying $4.95 a month for Internet, but may upgrade
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/208e3f6ed9af19d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 1:15 pm
From: Ohioguy

I'm paying $4.95 a month for dialup Internet. This gives me about 6
hours of Internet access a day. I've been happy with it in the past,
but nobody can call in or out when I'm online, so I've been considering
alternatives.

We also pay about $28 a month for local telephone, and ~$6 a month
for long distance on calling cards. That's a grand total of $39 a month
for local and long distance, plus Internet.

I had been considering DSL, but that would be $25 a month, and
requires us to have the telephone. My long term goal is actually to
dump the landline telephone, if possible.

I've been looking at cable Internet - we have Timer Warner in this
area. I got a flier last week advertising $29.99 a month Internet, but
that was evidently a "bundle", where you pay them $90 total for
Internet, telephone and TV. We don't have a TV, and I'm not interested
in that.

I think I've also seen "specials" where they advertise just the cable
internet for $35 a month for the first year, then $45 a month after that.

What I'm looking for is some sort of special. I've never had cable,
and I'm hoping to get a really good deal for a long term - something
like 2 years for $30 a month, Internet only.

Anybody know of a website or anywhere that has specials like this
advertised regularly?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 2:40 pm
From: Al

On Sep 2, 4:15 pm, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I'm paying $4.95 a month for dialup Internet. This gives me about 6
> hours of Internet access a day. I've been happy with it in the past,
> but nobody can call in or out when I'm online, so I've been considering
> alternatives.
>
> We also pay about $28 a month for local telephone, and ~$6 a month
> for long distance on calling cards. That's a grand total of $39 a month
> for local and long distance, plus Internet.
>
> I had been considering DSL, but that would be $25 a month, and
> requires us to have the telephone. My long term goal is actually to
> dump the landline telephone, if possible.
>
> I've been looking at cable Internet - we have Timer Warner in this
> area. I got a flier last week advertising $29.99 a month Internet, but
> that was evidently a "bundle", where you pay them $90 total for
> Internet, telephone and TV. We don't have a TV, and I'm not interested
> in that.
>
> I think I've also seen "specials" where they advertise just the cable
> internet for $35 a month for the first year, then $45 a month after that.
>
> What I'm looking for is some sort of special. I've never had cable,
> and I'm hoping to get a really good deal for a long term - something
> like 2 years for $30 a month, Internet only.
>
> Anybody know of a website or anywhere that has specials like this
> advertised regularly?

How about FREE?
http://www.dialupforfree.com/
I've been using then as my backup on two computers for a long time
without problem. It's unlimited and the connection is the same as I
pay for on my regular ride.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 3:14 pm
From: Les Cargill

Ohioguy wrote:
> I'm paying $4.95 a month for dialup Internet. This gives me about 6
> hours of Internet access a day. I've been happy with it in the past, but
> nobody can call in or out when I'm online, so I've been considering
> alternatives.
>
> We also pay about $28 a month for local telephone, and ~$6 a month for
> long distance on calling cards. That's a grand total of $39 a month for
> local and long distance, plus Internet.
>
> I had been considering DSL, but that would be $25 a month, and requires
> us to have the telephone. My long term goal is actually to dump the
> landline telephone, if possible.
>
> I've been looking at cable Internet - we have Timer Warner in this area.
> I got a flier last week advertising $29.99 a month Internet, but that
> was evidently a "bundle", where you pay them $90 total for Internet,
> telephone and TV. We don't have a TV, and I'm not interested in that.
>
> I think I've also seen "specials" where they advertise just the cable
> internet for $35 a month for the first year, then $45 a month after that.
>

That's not a bad deal. See if they offer VoIP with that. That's cover
your internet and phone for not much more than you are
paying now.

Our VoIP phone stays up during power failures - there's a battery
in the box.

> What I'm looking for is some sort of special. I've never had cable, and
> I'm hoping to get a really good deal for a long term - something like 2
> years for $30 a month, Internet only.
>
> Anybody know of a website or anywhere that has specials like this
> advertised regularly?

--
Les Cargill

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:05 pm
From: "Bob F"

Al wrote:
> How about FREE?
> http://www.dialupforfree.com/
> I've been using then as my backup on two computers for a long time
> without problem. It's unlimited and the connection is the same as I
> pay for on my regular ride.

It looks to me like a toll call from anywhere but western Nebraska.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Friday the 13th encounter with Big Brother
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/36c81e58c2d118c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 1:23 pm
From: Ohioguy

> Such "problems" are easily avoided by obeying the laws, to everyones benefit.

You're missing the point. In this country we have a long tradition
of civil disobedience. You can not wear your seat belt if you want to
take the chance with your safety, and if you value your personal comfort
more than possible safety.

However, the government is becoming a "nanny state", and passing
loads and loads of new laws. They are also regularly putting up new
speed limit signs that are lower than they used to be - 35 here where it
used to be 55. This is despite the fact that it wastes gas, and makes
people take a lot longer getting home.

Anyway, if the government passes loads and loads of laws to the point
where just about everything is regulated, then installs cameras
everywhere, this means that there is a pretty good chance they will get
you on a regular basis disobeying some law on the books. It also will
eventually restrict personal freedom in public to the point where
everybody is essentially a robot.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 2:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Ohioguy wrote

>> Such "problems" are easily avoided by obeying the laws, to everyones benefit.

> You're missing the point.

Nope, you are.

> In this country we have a long tradition of civil disobedience.

And criminal activity in spades.

> You can not wear your seat belt if you want to take the chance with your safety, and if you value your personal
> comfort more than possible safety.

But you dont get to use something as harmless as cannabis.

> However, the government is becoming a "nanny state", and passing
> loads and loads of new laws. They are also regularly putting up new
> speed limit signs that are lower than they used to be - 35 here where
> it used to be 55. This is despite the fact that it wastes gas,

It doesnt actually. You use less gas at the lower speed.

> and makes people take a lot longer getting home.

> Anyway, if the government passes loads and loads of laws to the
> point where just about everything is regulated, then installs cameras
> everywhere, this means that there is a pretty good chance they will
> get you on a regular basis disobeying some law on the books.

Mindlessly silly.

> It also will eventually restrict personal freedom in public to the point where everybody is essentially a robot.

Even sillier.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:10 pm
From: "Clincher"

"Ohioguy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:tJTfo.38778$yr6.35832@newsfe05.iad...
>> Such "problems" are easily avoided by obeying the laws, to everyones
>> benefit.
>
> You're missing the point. In this country we have a long tradition of
> civil disobedience.

Because you didn't make the point. Your complaint was not about the fairness
of speeding laws but about the manner in which it was enforced in your case.
Civil disobedience is about protesting the existence of an unfair law.

> You can not wear your seat belt if you want to take the chance with your
> safety, and if you value your personal comfort more than possible safety.

If seatbelt laws didn't exist, your insurance company would require them
anyway.

Add the fact that being belted in gives you a better chance of maintaining
control of the car in an emergency, and thus avoiding an accident that
closes the lane and inconveniences other motorists while the medics scrape
you off the pavement.

I do not think seatbelt laws qualify as a "nanny law." If you wish to forgo
them for personal comfort, do it on your own private non-taxpayer-funded
race track where you won't affect drivers.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:21 pm
From: MAS

On 9/2/2010 4:23 PM, Ohioguy wrote:
>> Such "problems" are easily avoided by obeying the laws, to everyones
>> benefit.
>
> You're missing the point. In this country we have a long tradition of
> civil disobedience. You can not wear your seat belt if you want to take
> the chance with your safety, and if you value your personal comfort more
> than possible safety.
>
> However, the government is becoming a "nanny state", and passing loads
> and loads of new laws. They are also regularly putting up new speed
> limit signs that are lower than they used to be - 35 here where it used
> to be 55. This is despite the fact that it wastes gas, and makes people
> take a lot longer getting home.
>
> Anyway, if the government passes loads and loads of laws to the point
> where just about everything is regulated, then installs cameras
> everywhere, this means that there is a pretty good chance they will get
> you on a regular basis disobeying some law on the books. It also will
> eventually restrict personal freedom in public to the point where
> everybody is essentially a robot.

You don't break laws just because you don't like them. You work to
change them. I hate to see parents passing this kind of attitude on to
their children.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:41 pm
From: "Lou"

"Ohioguy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:tJTfo.38778$yr6.35832@newsfe05.iad...
> > Such "problems" are easily avoided by obeying the laws, to everyones
benefit.
>
> You're missing the point. In this country we have a long tradition
> of civil disobedience. You can not wear your seat belt if you want to
> take the chance with your safety, and if you value your personal comfort
> more than possible safety.

I'd have no problem with that IF those who didn't wear a seatbelt paid for
their own medical care when/if they had a bad day behind the wheel. But
they don't - if they have insurance, it ups everyone's premiums, and if they
don't have insurance, it ups everyone's taxes.

> However, the government is becoming a "nanny state", and passing
> loads and loads of new laws. They are also regularly putting up new
> speed limit signs that are lower than they used to be - 35 here where it
> used to be 55. This is despite the fact that it wastes gas, and makes
> people take a lot longer getting home.

I've seen signs replaced with lower limits, though not to the degree you
cite. Usually the case is that the area has become more built up over the
years, and I think the new, lower limit is probably justified. Lower speeds
tend to be more economical in terms of gas, and in mixed residential/rural
areas, tend to mean less time spent idling at the occasional traffic light.
In my area, for instance, there's a stretch of road posted at 50. I tend to
drive it at 40 - 45, and some drivers go roaring past me. A couple or three
miles further along, I pull up behind them at the next traffic light. They
haven't saved any gas, and they haven't saved any time.

> Anyway, if the government passes loads and loads of laws to the point
> where just about everything is regulated, then installs cameras
> everywhere, this means that there is a pretty good chance they will get
> you on a regular basis disobeying some law on the books. It also will
> eventually restrict personal freedom in public to the point where
> everybody is essentially a robot.

While that may be true in principle, the immediate fact of the matter is
that your car was photographed exceeding the speed limit. Your personal
freedom does not extend to upping my insurance rates or taxes, endangering
my safety, or slowing me down because of an accident that ends up tying up
traffic.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:43 pm
From: "h"

"Clincher" <x@x.x> wrote in message

Flyoverstateboy is douchebag tax-evading troll. IGNORE it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Flu Vaccine Scam Rears Its Ugly Head Again in 2010
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df9bf47b6f220bd6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 1:24 pm
From: Ray K

Rod Speed wrote:

>> (As an aside, Mike Adams, also known as the Health Ranger, makes a good case that nobody dies in the U.S. from flu
>> because none of the deaths are confirmed by lab data; fascinating perspective.
>
> No he doesnt make a good case, because they either died of the flu or they
> didnt, doesnt matter whether that has been confirmed by lab data or not.
>
Why doesn't it matter? If they didn't die from flu, why bother with flu
vaccinations? How can you know for sure there are only two alternatives,
flu, or no flu? There are no other illness anywhere on the planet with
the same symptoms?

>> http://www.naturalnews.com/026169.html)
>
>> ************************************************************************
>
>> Once again the government and its press lackeys are circulating lies
>
> And this is where your prejudices stand out like dogs balls.
>
>> about the alleged number of annual U.S. flu deaths in an attempt to scare the population into getting flu shots of
>> questionable value.
>
> Why would they bother?

The next sentence answers that simple question.

>> Nobody in Congress challenges the number, because Big Pharma makes substantial "contributions" to their reelection
>> campaigns.
>
> Mindlessly silly.

Actually your are naive if you assume there are no politics in medicine.
I suggest you subscribe to free newsletters from mercola.com and
naturalnews.com for the wakeup call you desperately need.

>> FDA decision-makers don't make waves because their silence is often
>> rewarded with lucrative jobs at Big Pharma companies after leaving government.
>
> Even sillier.

Obviously, the prhase "revolving door" doesn't mean anything to you.
Google on "FDA revolving door" (no quotes) and read for yourself.

http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/fda_cozy_relationship.htm
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Government-industry_revolving_door
http://www.psrast.org/ecologmons.htm

>> Advertising-supported popular magazines and even medical
>> journals dare not expose the truth; just count the number of
>> advertising pages for drugs and figure it out yourself.
>
> Peer reviewed scientific journals dont have any drug advertising.

Really?! You are not only naive but in denial.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16523984

It says that the advertising-to-editorial ratio in the NEJM is nearly
unity, and the the JAMA, about 0.3. But I guess that in your myopic
world, NEJM and JAMA are not peer-reviewed journals.

>> Major news services (AP, Reuters, etc.) don't expose the fraud either; perhaps it's the fear of being denied access to
>> key people in the government, or perhaps their writers are too lazy to do fact-checking.
>
> More likely because there is no fraud.

Wake up!

>> 36,000 DEATHS PER YEAR
>> That's the bogus number typically circulated.
>
> Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate the claim that its bogus.

The sources of data in the original post are all from the CDC and cited
in the references. Obviously, you can't be bothered reading the them.

Doesn't it strike you odd that the 36,000 figure never changes, year to
year?

>> It's sometimes given as deaths from pneumonia and flu combined. Other times it's given as deaths from flu alone. (They
>> can't even tell a consistent lie.)
>
> Its nothing like as black and white as that.

According the the CDC data, it is. Read the references.

>> In either case, the number is wrong.
>
> Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate the claim that its bogus.

The data is take directly from CDC publications.

>> The true number of flu deaths and pneumonia deaths in all age groups, right from the government's Centers for Disease
>> Control reports, are as follows:
>
>> Deaths from 2003(1) 2004(2) 2005(3) 2006(4) 2007(5)
>> Pneumonia & flu 65,163 59,644 63,001 56,326 52,717
>> Pneumonia alone 63,371 58,564 61,189 55,477 52,306
>
> Thats a flagrantly dishonest misrepresentation of what the CDC reports actually say.

Please substantiate your claim.

>> Flu alone 1,792 1,100 1,812 849 411
>
> And that in spades.

It's simple subtraction. Take a remedial course in basic arithmetic.

>> That's right, flu deaths ranged from 1,792 in 2003 to 411 in 2007.
>
> The CDC doesnt say that.

If you do the subtracion, that's exactly what it does say. Read the
references.

>> The five-year average is 1,192 per year!
>
> Or that either.

If you add the five numbers above for flu-alone deaths, they total 5964.
Divide that by five, and you get 1192.8 as the five-year average. You
should have paid attention to basic arithmetic. Maybe you can get a
10-year-old to explain it to you.

> And you havent even considered how many more would have
> died of flu if there had not been any flu vaccinations anyway.

What is the number? If you read this article from Sept 2,
http://www.naturalnews.com/029641_vaccines_junk_science.html,
you'll see that the vaccines don't work in 99 out of 100 people. So at
best they relieve symptoms in only 1 out of 100.

> None of the rest of this even more mindless silly shit worth bothering with.

At least you are admitting that you haven't bothered reading the
references and even if you had, you consider the CDC's data to be shit.

How much does Big Pharma pay you to publicly embarrass yourself with you
nonsensical rantings?

Besides not understanding basic arithmetic, you don't even understand
basic spelling, either. Learn to use an apostrophe in a contraction.
(Sorry to use that big three-syllable word.)

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 2:30 pm
From: Rebel1

Don Klipstein wrote:

> What about those who got pneumonia as a result of getting flu?

As the OP says, get a pneumonia vaccination. Yes, viral pneumonia can be
a problem.

> And even without pneumonia, flu still kills nearly about .05% of people
> before they would have died from something else.

The data in the original post says only 0.015 percent in the 65+ age
group. Where did you get the 0.05% number from?

Besides, how much should be spent to extend the life a people close to
death anyway by a small amount? As a nation, we have to get over this
notion that it's okay to spend an infinite amount of money to postpone a
death by a few weeks or even months.

If you had a diagnosis of six months to live, confirmed by second and
third opinions, and you had to pay in full for all the recommended
treatments out of your pocket, how much would you be willing to spend?
Remember, that six months to a 70-year-old is 0.71% of the 840 months
he/she has already lived.

>> SO WHO SHOULD GET THE FLU VACCINE?
>> According to this site, http://www.medicinenet.com/influenza/page3.htm,
>> "groups at increased risk of influenza complications include people aged
>> 65 years or older.…" (With all their drug ads, can they be impartial?)
>> Let's see just how high that risk is. Here are the numbers for people
>> aged 65 and older+ in year 2007(5):
>
> Looks to me cherrypicked for having flu-alone deaths about 35% of the
> above-mentioned 5-year average.

I don't understand how you arrived at 35%. I wasn't attempting any
cherry-picking.

>> Age Age Age Total
>> Deaths from: 65-74 75-84 85&Up 65&Up
>> Pneumonia and flu 5,547 14,859 25,535 45,941
>> Pneumonia alone 5,509 14,780 25,396 45,685
>> Flu Alone 38 79 139 256
>> Total Deaths, all causes 389,238 652,682 713,646 1,755,566
>> Flu Deaths, % of Total 0.010 0.012 0.019 0.015
>> Deaths
>>
>> So IF vaccine makers correctly GUESSED at the type of virus strains that
>> would be a risk 9 months after they started making the vaccine, AND IF
>> the vaccine were 100 percent effective, only 256 deaths (0.015%) would
>> be delayed out of 1,755,566 from all causes.
>>
>> Some might credit the drop of flu deaths in the 65 and above group (256
>> in 2007 vs. 689 in 2006) to increased vaccination coverage. But the CDC
>> says that coverage of 68.0% in this age group was similar to previous
>> seasons.(6)
>>
>> But they want to vaccinate all 35,000,000 people 65 and older(7). At $20
>> per vaccine, that's $700,000,000 transferred from the bank accounts of
>> seniors and their insurers to the medical mafia (everyone from the local
>> doctors up the distribution chain to the manufacturer) hoping to delay a
>> mere 256 deaths in an already vulnerable group. That's $2,734,375 for
>> each delayed death.
>
> Except you are ignoring deaths by flu complications that required the
> flu to occur, such as pneumonia. Using your figure from an exceptionally
> low flu-alone-deaths year and what you mentioned for same year of flu plus
> pneumonia, that works out to about $15K to get someone to live a little
> longer.

Are you saying that flu is more a result of first being weakened by
pneumonia rather than the other way around?

>> Yes, there will be some savings due to reduced
>> hospitalizations. Nevertheless, this kind of insanity is what's
>> bankrupting the system.
>>

>> HOW TO PREVENT THE FLU
>> The flu season coincides with shorter days, which means less sunlight
>> and less vitamin D generated by our bodies from direct (not through
>> glass or sunscreen) sun exposure on our skin. Here's the background:
>>
>> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/10/03/more-evidence-vitamin-d-beats-the-flu.aspx
>
> Flu season also coordinates with (and even slightly lags) people being
> indoors with each other more and traveling more to visit other people.

Yes, and not enough hand-washing.

>> 5) Cut sugar consumption, which depresses the immune system.
>
> Oh, so I am hearing this from someone who is not only on some
> anti-vaccine bandwagon, but also on the anti-carb one? (Though I do
> think that Americans consume too much sugar - as well as plenty of other
> things rich in calories, especially fats which have twice the calorie
> density of sugar.)

I'm just the messenger, reporting what people smarter that me say about
the effect of sugar on the immune system.

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/sugar.htm
http://www.thebody.com/content/esp/art31115.html
http://www.thebody.com/content/esp/art31115.html (Scroll down to item 1
under "76 ways"

> You did not mention exercise, which helps the immune system along with
> health in general.

Ah yes, the magic cure-all for everything: exercise.

> Not that I am any fan of "Big Pharma", but this is yet another example
> of the anti-vaccine types rubbing me the wrong way. I have seen many
> others - including many claiming that any vaccine tested on non-human
> animals before being used on humans is inherently flawed.

There are serious concerns about that issue. I don't know the answer. At
present animal research seems to be the best starting point for
determining effectiveness of a new drug. But just consider all the drugs
that made it to the market with FDA approval that eventually got
recalled for high death rates (e.g., Vioxx) or unacceptable other side
effects (e.g., hormone replacement for women).

Overall, the vaccination program is overhyped. When the H1N1 scam was in
full swing last year, it was especially recommended that pregnant women
(and the elderly) get the shot. But the manufacturer's package inserts
warned against giving preggies the shot, as it wasn't tested in groups
below age 4 years. And if the shot came from a multi-dose vial, it also
contained mercury. Just what a fetus needs to get a good start in life.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 2:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Ray K wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> (As an aside, Mike Adams, also known as the Health Ranger, makes a good case that nobody dies in the U.S. from flu
>>> because none of the deaths are confirmed by lab data; fascinating perspective.

>> No he doesnt make a good case, because they either died of the flu or they didnt, doesnt matter whether that has been
>> confirmed by lab data or not.

> Why doesn't it matter?

Because its obvious that many do die of flu.

> If they didn't die from flu,

They did. That wasnt confirmed with lab tests, thats all.

> why bother with flu vaccinations?

Because heaps get flu.

> How can you know for sure there are only two alternatives, flu, or no flu?

No one ever said anything like that.

> There are no other illness anywhere on the planet with the same symptoms?

Corse there are. There isnt any point in confirming which one they died of with lab tests tho.

>>> http://www.naturalnews.com/026169.html)

>>> ************************************************************************

>>> Once again the government and its press lackeys are circulating lies

>> And this is where your prejudices stand out like dogs balls.

>>> about the alleged number of annual U.S. flu deaths in an attempt to scare the population into getting flu shots of
>>> questionable value.

>> Why would they bother?

> The next sentence answers that simple question.

Like hell it does.

>>> Nobody in Congress challenges the number, because Big Pharma makes substantial "contributions" to their reelection
>>> campaigns.

>> Mindlessly silly.

> Actually your are naive if you assume there are no politics in medicine.

Never assumed anything of the sort.

> I suggest you subscribe to free newsletters from mercola.com and naturalnews.com for the wakeup call you desperately
> need.

No thanks, I use rigorous science instead.

>>> FDA decision-makers don't make waves because their silence is often
>>> rewarded with lucrative jobs at Big Pharma companies after leaving government.

>> Even sillier.

> Obviously, the prhase "revolving door" doesn't mean anything to you.
> Google on "FDA revolving door" (no quotes) and read for yourself.

> http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/fda_cozy_relationship.htm
> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Government-industry_revolving_door
> http://www.psrast.org/ecologmons.htm

Just because some fool claims something doesnt make it gospel.

>>> Advertising-supported popular magazines and even medical
>>> journals dare not expose the truth; just count the number of
>>> advertising pages for drugs and figure it out yourself.

>> Peer reviewed scientific journals dont have any drug advertising.

> Really?!

Yes, really.

> You are not only naive but in denial.

We'll see...

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16523984

> It says that the advertising-to-editorial ratio in the NEJM is nearly unity, and the the JAMA, about 0.3.

Doesnt say that about DRUG advertising.

> But I guess that in your myopic world, NEJM and JAMA are not peer-reviewed journals.

Guess again.

>>> Major news services (AP, Reuters, etc.) don't expose the fraud
>>> either; perhaps it's the fear of being denied access to key people
>>> in the government, or perhaps their writers are too lazy to do
>>> fact-checking.

>> More likely because there is no fraud.

> Wake up!

Go back to sleep!!!

>>> 36,000 DEATHS PER YEAR
>>> That's the bogus number typically circulated.

>> Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate the claim that its bogus.

> The sources of data in the original post are all from the CDC and cited in the references.

Pity they dont substantiate that particular claim.

> Obviously, you can't be bothered reading the them.

> Doesn't it strike you odd that the 36,000 figure never changes, year to year?

Thats a lie with the CDC data.

>>> It's sometimes given as deaths from pneumonia and flu combined.
>>> Other times it's given as deaths from flu alone. (They can't even
>>> tell a consistent lie.)

>> Its nothing like as black and white as that.

> According the the CDC data, it is.

You're lying, again.

> Read the references.

Doesnt say anything like that.

>>> In either case, the number is wrong.

>> Easy to claim. Pity you cant actually substantiate the claim that its bogus.

> The data is take directly from CDC publications.

That claim about the 36K number isnt.

>>> The true number of flu deaths and pneumonia deaths in all age
>>> groups, right from the government's Centers for Disease Control
>>> reports, are as follows:

>>> Deaths from 2003(1) 2004(2) 2005(3) 2006(4) 2007(5) Pneumonia & flu 65,163 59,644 63,001
>>> 56,326 52,717 Pneumonia alone 63,371 58,564 61,189 55,477 52,306

>> Thats a flagrantly dishonest misrepresentation of what the CDC reports actually say.

> Please substantiate your claim.

Read the reports.

>>> Flu alone 1,792 1,100 1,812 849 411

>> And that in spades.

> It's simple subtraction.

And that is a flagrantly dishonest misrepresentation of what the CDC actually says.

> Take a remedial course in basic arithmetic.

Take Bullshitting 101.

>>> That's right, flu deaths ranged from 1,792 in 2003 to 411 in 2007.

>> The CDC doesnt say that.

> If you do the subtracion,

The CDC isnt stupid enough to do that.

> that's exactly what it does say. Read the references.

There is no subtraction done by the CDC.

>>> The five-year average is 1,192 per year!

>> Or that either.

> If you add the five numbers above for flu-alone deaths, they total 5964. Divide that by five, and you get 1192.8 as
> the five-year average.

Pity the CDC says nothing like that.

> You should have paid attention to basic arithmetic. Maybe you can get a 10-year-old to explain it to you.

Any 2 year old can bullshit better than that pathetic effort.

Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

>> And you havent even considered how many more would have
>> died of flu if there had not been any flu vaccinations anyway.

> What is the number?

No one knows. It isnt even possible to know that.

> If you read this article from Sept 2,
> http://www.naturalnews.com/029641_vaccines_junk_science.html,
> you'll see that the vaccines don't work in 99 out of 100 people.

Pity that is a bare faced lie.

There might just be a reason that smallpox was completely eliminated from
the wild and polio is now no longer a serious problem in the first world.

> So at best they relieve symptoms in only 1 out of 100.

Another bare faced lie.

>> None of the rest of this even more mindless silly shit worth bothering with.

> At least you are admitting that you haven't bothered reading the references

Didnt say that. I JUST said that I didnt bother to comment on the rest of your lies.

> and even if you had, you consider the CDC's data to be shit.

You're lying, again.

> How much does Big Pharma pay you

Not a cent.

> to publicly embarrass yourself with you nonsensical rantings?

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.

> Besides not understanding basic arithmetic, you don't even understand
> basic spelling, either. Learn to use an apostrophe in a contraction.
> (Sorry to use that big three-syllable word.)

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:48 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <4c801745$0$31277$607ed4bc@cv.net>, Rebel1 wrote:
>Don Klipstein wrote:
>
>> What about those who got pneumonia as a result of getting flu?
>
>As the OP says, get a pneumonia vaccination. Yes, viral pneumonia can be
>a problem.
>
>> And even without pneumonia, flu still kills nearly about .05% of people
>> before they would have died from something else.
>
>The data in the original post says only 0.015 percent in the 65+ age
>group. Where did you get the 0.05% number from?

From the part of your original post mentioning a 5 year stretch rather
than the one year of unusually low deaths due to flu without pneumonia.

>Besides, how much should be spent to extend the life a people close to
>death anyway by a small amount? As a nation, we have to get over this
>notion that it's okay to spend an infinite amount of money to postpone a
>death by a few weeks or even months.
>
>If you had a diagnosis of six months to live, confirmed by second and
>third opinions, and you had to pay in full for all the recommended
>treatments out of your pocket, how much would you be willing to spend?
>Remember, that six months to a 70-year-old is 0.71% of the 840 months
>he/she has already lived.

Some would spend the figure I mentioned, especially if it turns out to
be more like a year or two or a few years.

>>> SO WHO SHOULD GET THE FLU VACCINE?
>>> According to this site, http://www.medicinenet.com/influenza/page3.htm,
>>> "groups at increased risk of influenza complications include people aged
>>> 65 years or older.…" (With all their drug ads, can they be impartial?)
>>> Let's see just how high that risk is. Here are the numbers for people
>>> aged 65 and older+ in year 2007(5):
>>
>> Looks to me cherrypicked for having flu-alone deaths about 35% of the
>> above-mentioned 5-year average.
>
>I don't understand how you arrived at 35%. I wasn't attempting any
>cherry-picking.
>
>>> Age Age Age Total
>>> Deaths from: 65-74 75-84 85&Up 65&Up
>>> Pneumonia and flu 5,547 14,859 25,535 45,941
>>> Pneumonia alone 5,509 14,780 25,396 45,685
>>> Flu Alone 38 79 139 256
>>> Total Deaths, all causes 389,238 652,682 713,646 1,755,566
>>> Flu Deaths, % of Total 0.010 0.012 0.019 0.015
>>> Deaths

That was for the one specific year (2007) when deaths for flu without
pneumonia were about 35% of those of the 5-year period incl;uding 2007
that you mentioned earlier in your post, where flu without pneumonia was
just a little less than .05% of deaths.

>>> So IF vaccine makers correctly GUESSED at the type of virus strains that
>>> would be a risk 9 months after they started making the vaccine, AND IF
>>> the vaccine were 100 percent effective, only 256 deaths (0.015%) would
>>> be delayed out of 1,755,566 from all causes.
>>>
>>> Some might credit the drop of flu deaths in the 65 and above group (256
>>> in 2007 vs. 689 in 2006) to increased vaccination coverage. But the CDC
>>> says that coverage of 68.0% in this age group was similar to previous
>>> seasons.(6)
>>>
>>> But they want to vaccinate all 35,000,000 people 65 and older(7). At $20
>>> per vaccine, that's $700,000,000 transferred from the bank accounts of
>>> seniors and their insurers to the medical mafia (everyone from the local
>>> doctors up the distribution chain to the manufacturer) hoping to delay a
>>> mere 256 deaths in an already vulnerable group. That's $2,734,375 for
>>> each delayed death.
>>
>> Except you are ignoring deaths by flu complications that required the
>> flu to occur, such as pneumonia. Using your figure from an exceptionally
>> low flu-alone-deaths year and what you mentioned for same year of flu plus
>> pneumonia, that works out to about $15K to get someone to live a little
>> longer.
>
>Are you saying that flu is more a result of first being weakened by
>pneumonia rather than the other way around?

Your data showed that almost half of all fatal pneumonia occurred to
those that had flu, fair chance due to being weakened by flu.

>>> Yes, there will be some savings due to reduced
>>> hospitalizations. Nevertheless, this kind of insanity is what's
>>> bankrupting the system.
>>>
>
>>> HOW TO PREVENT THE FLU
>>> The flu season coincides with shorter days, which means less sunlight
>>> and less vitamin D generated by our bodies from direct (not through
>>> glass or sunscreen) sun exposure on our skin. Here's the background:
>>>
>>> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/10/03/more-evidence-vitamin-d-beats-the-flu.aspx
>>
>> Flu season also coordinates with (and even slightly lags) people being
>> indoors with each other more and traveling more to visit other people.
>
>Yes, and not enough hand-washing.
>
>>> 5) Cut sugar consumption, which depresses the immune system.
>>
>> Oh, so I am hearing this from someone who is not only on some
>> anti-vaccine bandwagon, but also on the anti-carb one? (Though I do
>> think that Americans consume too much sugar - as well as plenty of other
>> things rich in calories, especially fats which have twice the calorie
>> density of sugar.)
>
>I'm just the messenger, reporting what people smarter that me say about
>the effect of sugar on the immune system.
>
>http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/sugar.htm
>http://www.thebody.com/content/esp/art31115.html
>http://www.thebody.com/content/esp/art31115.html (Scroll down to item 1
>under "76 ways"
>
>> You did not mention exercise, which helps the immune system along with
>> health in general.
>
>Ah yes, the magic cure-all for everything: exercise.

Helps significantly against quite a bit of things that happen
disproportionately to sedentary people,

>> Not that I am any fan of "Big Pharma", but this is yet another example
>> of the anti-vaccine types rubbing me the wrong way. I have seen many
>> others - including many claiming that any vaccine tested on non-human
>> animals before being used on humans is inherently flawed.
>
>There are serious concerns about that issue. I don't know the answer. At
>present animal research seems to be the best starting point for
>determining effectiveness of a new drug. But just consider all the drugs
>that made it to the market with FDA approval that eventually got
>recalled for high death rates (e.g., Vioxx) or unacceptable other side
>effects (e.g., hormone replacement for women).
>
>Overall, the vaccination program is overhyped. When the H1N1 scam was in
>full swing last year, it was especially recommended that pregnant women
>(and the elderly) get the shot. But the manufacturer's package inserts
>warned against giving preggies the shot, as it wasn't tested in groups
>below age 4 years. And if the shot came from a multi-dose vial, it also
>contained mercury. Just what a fetus needs to get a good start in life.
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:41 pm
From: "h"

"Rebel1" <Rebel1@optonline.net> wrote in message news:4c801745$0$31277

Oh, doG, NO one need a flu shot. GIVE IT A REST,. All that crap is a Big
Pharma Scam. Sheesh, everyone knows this....Or, at least all adults with
working brains know this..

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MAKE THOUSANDS FAST!!! NOT A SCAM, I REPEAT THIS IS NOT A SCAM
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a3214044c47ef009?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:30 pm
From: Rico

Good Day! This article I've written is all about the fact where I
earned an ASTOUNDING amount of money in less than a month and I've
decided to share the secret with you?(yea you the one reading this
message) behind making big bucks in the Mail Order Business.

So all money seekers?Read this carefully!

Hi I'm 19 years old and I make more money than my parents and so can
you! Turn $6.00 into $60,000 and more?.read this to find out how!!!
READING THIS COULD CHANGE YOUR LIFE!!! IT SURE CHANGED MINE!...BELIEVE
ME!

I found this on a bulletin board just like this one and decided to try
it
because I was desperate for money and though, I throw away 6 bucks
every day. Why not invest it?. A little while back I was browsing
through several newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an
article, similar to this, that said you could make thousands of
dollars within weeks, with only an additional investment of $6.00! So
I thought, "Yea right!" This must be a scam,? but like most of us, I
was curious so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that: you need to send
$1.00 to each of the six names and address stated in this article. You
then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,
and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are millions)
No catch, that was it. So after thinking it over and talking to a few
people first, I thought about trying it! I figured: ?What have I got
to loose except 6 stamps, and $6.00, right?? Then I invested the
measly $6.00. WELL, GUESS WHAT!!? Within 7 days, I started getting
money in them mail! I was SHOCKED!!! I figured it would end soon, but
the money just kept on coming in. In my first week, I made about
$25.00. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over
$1,000.00! In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it's still
growing! This is now my fourth week and I have made just over
42,000.00, and it's still coming in very rapidly! It's certainly worth
$6.00, and 6 stamps, I have spend more than that in the lottery!!!

Let me tell you how this works, and most importantly, why it works?.
Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get
the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you
follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more money
than you thought possible by doing something so easy!

SUGGESTION: READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE CAREFULLY! (print it out or
download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come
in! It?s easy. It?s legal. And, your investment is only $6.00 (plus
postage).

IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not
illegal; and it is virtually no risk-it really works!!!! If all the
following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary
dividends!

PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000.00 or
more can be yours in 20-60 days. This program remains successful
because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please
continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You
will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your
product your product is not sold and tangible, it?s a service. You are
in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large corporations
are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However the money made
from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is made from
people like you and me asking to be included in that.

~~~~> HERE ARE 4 EASY STEPS TO GET STARTED <~~~~

STEP 1: Get six separate pieces of paper and write the following on
each piece of paper, "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Now get 6
US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so
the bill will not be seen through the envelope (Please make sure that
the bill wouldn't be noticed in the envelope to prevent thievery )
Send out US $ DOLLAR, so it would be more acceptable.

STEP 2: Next, place one paper (with the bill inside) in each of the
six envelopes and seal them properly. You should now have six sealed
envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the phrase: "PLEASE PUT
ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST," your name and address, and a $1.00 bill.

What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!!!
You are requesting for a legitimate service and you are paying for it!
Like most of us, I was a little skeptical and a little worried about
the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post
office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal!

MAIL THE 6 ENVELOPES TO THE FOLLOWING ADDRESSES BELOW:

#1.) Rob Chaney
1021 Brookley ST.
Jackson, MS 39212

#2.) Brooke Mckinney
10157 Cox Gap RD.
Boaz, AL 35956

#3.) Victor Bell
5820 N Kenmore
Chicago, IL 60660
Apt. 201

#4.) A.N. Flegel
18501 68th ST. E
Bonney Lake, WA 98390

#5.) James McCauley

3227 RT 66

New Bethlehem, Pa 16242

#6.) Rico Williams
3835 Rux Rd. S.W.
Atlanta, GA 30331

?STEP 3: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move
the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, ect?) and add YOUR Name
as number 6 on the list.

STEP 4: copy this article. Change anything you need to, but try to
keep this article as close to the original as possible. Now, post your
amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close
to 2.4 million groups) All you need is 200, but remember, the more you
post, the more money you make!!! (You can make thousands of dollars
more if you add just 20 more newsgroups to the 200) This is perfectly
legal! If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18, Section 1302 and
1341, US Postal and Lottery Laws or Title 18, Section 3005 in the US
code, also in the code of Federal regulations, volume 16, sections 255
and 436, which states; ?a product or service must be exchanged for
money received.? The simple note in the letter, ?PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR
MAILING LIST,? Makes it legal because you are paying for exchange of a
service, (adding the purchasers name to his mailing list) for a $1.00
fee.

KEEP A COPY OF THESE STEPS FOR YOURSELF, and whenever you need the
money, you can use it again and again! PLEASE REMEMBER that this
program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the
participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look
at it this way: If you are of integrity, the program will continue,
and the money that so many others have received will come your way.

NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you,
either on a computer or hard copy, and keep the notes people send you.
This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also it might
be a good idea to wrap the $1.00 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk
of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions
carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their
participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will
move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1
position you will be receiving thousands of dollars in CASH!!! What an
opportunity for only $6.00 ($1.00 for each of the first six people
listed above) Send it now, add your name to the list and you?re in
business!

~~~~> DIRECTIONS FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS<~~~~

STEP 1: You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own
posting. Simply put your mouse curser at the beginning of this letter,
click and drag your curser to the bottom of this document, right click
and select ?copy? from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter
into the computers memory.

STEP 2: Open a blank ?notepad? file and place your mouse curser at the
top of the black page. Right click and click the ?edit? menu, select ?
paste.? This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you
can add your name and postal address to the list.

STEP 3: Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do
your postings in different settings, you?ll always have this file to
go back to.

STEP 4: Use Netscape or Internet Explorer and post this article as a
new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting
paste from the edit menu. Fill in the subject, this will be the header
that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a
particular group, click the ?post? message button. You?re done with
your first one! NOTE: Please don?t SPAM or send unsolicited emails.
It?
s completely illegal. Send emails to all the people you know or any
ways that allow you to, instead of SPAMMING. (Just a reminder)

CONGRATULATIONS?. THAT?S IT!!! All you have to do is just to different
newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take
about a minute for each newsgroup! ** REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS
YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A
MINIMUN OF 200** That?s it! You will begin receiving money from around
the world within days!!! NO JOKE!!! You may eventually rent a P.O. Box
due to large amounts of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay
anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will
deliver it. ** JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT. **

* Now the WHY part; Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies
(a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the
letter. Now each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the
MINIMUN 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons
respond to each of the original five, this is another $25.00 for me,
now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5
replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now those, 125
persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and
only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK,
now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200
letters with my name at #2, and they each only receive 5 replies, that
just made me $3125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this
message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if STILL only 5
persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625.00! With an
original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING!!! When your name is no
longer on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start
posting again. The thing to remember is: do you realize that thousands
of people all over the world are joining the Internet and reading
these articles everyday? JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So, can you afford
$6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so?People have said, ?what
if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money.? So what!
What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new
honest users and new honest people who are joining the Internet and
newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at
20,000 to 50,000 new users everyday, with thousands of those joining
the actual Internet!!! REMEMBER, PLAY FAIRLY AND HONESTLY AND THIS
WILL WORK FOR YOU!!! GOOD LUCK!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Value (Walmart/Perdue) chicken nuggets recalled
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0ce0be343e4abd6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 5:51 pm
From: zeez

Bad week at summer school?

tmclone wrote:
> On Jul 20, 3:50 pm, Chemo the Clown <an...@peak.org> wrote:
> > On Jul 20, 12:38 pm, enough <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >http://con.st/10009159(Consumeristblog article)
> >
> > Everything in Walmart shoudl be recalled...heck, Walmart should be
> > recalled.
>
> "ENOUGH" is a troll, dufus. PLONK!

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