Frugal Living: Oct 13, 2007

Saturday, October 13, 2007

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:31 pm
From: "Bob F"

"Abe" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:5ni2h35ck0pcernueoukm02bm48mp81nth@4ax.com...
> >"Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>>> cooled again.
>>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>>
>>
>>How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
>>Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
>>air slower than containers of water.
>>
>>Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>>
>>Don
>>
> I think you need something with mass. Water or bricks, or Gel packs.

Only if you want to spend energy cooling them down. And lose it when you take
them out. If you are just trying to cut door-opening losses, bags of foam
peanuts would help more.

Bob

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:28 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:IaCdnRaur-NkqYzanZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Don K wrote:
>> "Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>>> cooled again.
>>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>>
>>
>> How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
>> Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
>> air slower than containers of water.
>>
>> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>>
>> Don
> How about buckets of cool whip? It probably has a higher specific heat
> that water and I think it has a twenty year storage life.

with the bonus of being edible ! NOT!!!!
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:30 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

why don't we just stack some slate in there. they absorb heat all day
and let it out at night. maybe they work in reverse.
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:31 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
news:P8OdnVvAmbj5gIzanZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> > In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>> >> Do you have a workable plan?
>>>>
>>>> > Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
>>>> > until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will do
>>>> > my
>>>> > damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be
>>>> > done
>>>> > at all."
>>>>
>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry can
>>>> tell
>>>> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to hear
>>>> about
>>>> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
>>> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
>>> solution to the problem.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either, so
>> telling him about the problem does not solve the problem. On the other
>> hand, if you told the boss "every 10th widgtet that comes off the
>> assembly line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile" and you
>> had a solution to stop that from happening, that you have not only
>> pointed out a problem, but you have a way to stop that from happening.
>> Problems cannot be corrected without a solution. It is not bad to point
>> out problems, but it is a whole lot better, if you poitned out a problem
>> and had a proposed solution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you
>>>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to solving
>>>> the
>>>> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE has to
>>>> come
>>>> up with a solution.
>>>
>>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
>>> thread.
>>
>> Okay, let us talk about illegal immigration. First of all, no society
>> has been very successdul at stopping people from doing what they want to
>> do. People enter this country illegally because they believe they have a
>> shot a living a better life here than where they come from. So, if you
>> do not address that dynamic, then nothing else you do will work.
>>>
>>> Solutions:
>>>
>>>
>>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
>>> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
>>> down by everyone.
>>
>> that is not a bad idea.
>>>
>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
>>> illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>
>>
>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem.
>> First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring these
>> people. You can make it a whole lot more difficult on them, and you may
>> stop more or most of them from hiring these illegals, but you will NEVER
>> stop ALL of them from hiring illegals. But for the sake of discussion,
>> let us for the moment assume that we can stop all businesses from hiring
>> illegals. Will that work? No, it won't work. If you were in this
>> country illegally, what you would do is work the underground economy, so
>> all you have succeeded in doing is driving them to work in the
>> underground economy, and then you have just made the job of finding them
>> that much harder, if not impossible.
>>
>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
>>> they encounter.
>>
>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>
>>> Deport those that are found
>>
>> Lousy idea. You deport them and they just turn right around and re-enter
>> this country illegally again. "If" we were really serious about
>> providing them with a incentive not to enter this country illegally, let
>> them spend some time in prison. And if they come back into this country
>> illegally again, put them in prison for a longer period of time. That
>> alone would work a whole lot better.
>>>
>>> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely with
>>> satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like, we can
>>> make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In fact, this
>>> would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can secure the
>>> borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to
>>> Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Nothing wrong with that idea. Of course there is a whole lot of water
>> surrounding the United States, and there is the northern border which is
>> open.
>>>
> But where is the fence?
> It works in Israel.
>

I gather it is in the "construction" phase...sort of like a work in
progress...

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:35 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ncmc7FhapcpU1@mid.individual.net...
> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>>>>> Do you have a workable plan?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem
>>>>>> but until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I
>>>>>> will do my
>>>>>> damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> at all."
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry
>>>>> can tell
>>>>> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to
>>>>> hear about
>>>>> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line
>>>> has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to
>>>> the boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't
>>>> have a solution to the problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either,
>>> so telling him about the problem does not solve the problem. On the
>>> other hand, if you told the boss "every 10th widgtet that comes off
>>> the assembly line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile"
>>> and you had a solution to stop that from happening, that you have
>>> not only pointed out a problem, but you have a way to stop that from
>>> happening. Problems cannot be corrected without a solution. It is
>>> not bad to point out problems, but it is a whole lot better, if you
>>> poitned out a problem and had a proposed solution.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you
>>>>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
>>>>> solving the
>>>>> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE
>>>>> has to come
>>>>> up with a solution.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>>>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>>>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>>>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in
>>>> this thread.
>>>
>>> Okay, let us talk about illegal immigration. First of all, no
>>> society has been very successdul at stopping people from doing what
>>> they want to do. People enter this country illegally because they
>>> believe they have a shot a living a better life here than where they
>>> come from. So, if you do not address that dynamic, then nothing
>>> else you do will work.
>>>>
>>>> Solutions:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
>>>> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
>>>> down by everyone.
>>>
>>> that is not a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs
>>>> for illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem.
>>> First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring these
>>> people. You can make it a whole lot more difficult on them, and you
>>> may stop more or most of them from hiring these illegals, but you
>>> will NEVER stop ALL of them from hiring illegals. But for the sake
>>> of discussion, let us for the moment assume that we can stop all
>>> businesses from hiring illegals. Will that work? No, it won't
>>> work. If you were in this country illegally, what you would do is
>>> work the underground economy, so all you have succeeded in doing is
>>> driving them to work in the underground economy, and then you have
>>> just made the job of finding them that much harder, if not
>>> impossible.
>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens
>>>> that they encounter.
>>>
>>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>>
>>>> Deport those that are found
>>>
>>> Lousy idea. You deport them and they just turn right around and
>>> re-enter this country illegally again. "If" we were really serious
>>> about providing them with a incentive not to enter this country
>>> illegally, let them spend some time in prison. And if they come
>>> back into this country illegally again, put them in prison for a
>>> longer period of time. That alone would work a whole lot better.
>>>>
>>>> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely
>>>> with satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like,
>>>> we can make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In
>>>> fact, this would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can
>>>> secure the borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be
>>>> coming in to Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in
>>>> short order.
>>>
>>> Nothing wrong with that idea. Of course there is a whole lot of
>>> water surrounding the United States, and there is the northern
>>> border which is open.
>
>> But where is the fence?
>> It works in Israel.
>
> And wouldnt work with Mexico.

why son't it work?
>
> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>

A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much more difficult
for them to come, they do keep coming. Second, we do have a wet foot/dry
foot policy in this country when it comes to Cubans. It is not exactly a
good policy if you don't want them to enter this country, instead it
encourages them to keep trying. Thirdly, that is what is inconsistent about
this whole argument about illegals. The government of the United States
decides who is a legal alien and who is not, the wet foot/dry foot rule is a
good example.

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:40 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
news:F82dnVJdVPWTgYzanZ2dnUVZ_tWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of them in
>> this country as we speak. What percentage of them are picking crops?
>> Why complain about a problem, if you have no solution to the problem?
>> What is your solution to the problem? I am willing to bet whatever
>> "solution" you propose, I can poke holes into your "solution" of why it
>> won't work.
>>
>>
>> "RuleOfLaw" <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>>>> happy
>>>> to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their labour. I doubt
>>>> he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot sun for their wages.
>>>
>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>> choice?)
>>>
>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>>> prices a few cents per pound.
>>>
>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal alien
>>> labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal aliens
>>> bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be LABOR-
>>> SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so many
>>> illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>>>
> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want a
> job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business in the
> United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>

Did you read about what is actually happening. We now require employers to
give the Social Security Administration the social security number of ANY
new employee. If the Social Security Administration find no match, they
advise the employer. But they have no authority to do anything "if" the
employer does nothing about the notification. When there is a no match, the
Social Securitu Administration sends that information to the Homeland
Security people, who have no law enforcement ability. So, what good does
the whole thing do?

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:41 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net...
> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
>>> <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>>>>> happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>>>>> sun for their wages.
>>>>
>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>>> choice?)
>>>>
>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>>>> prices a few cents per pound.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>>>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be
>>>> LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so
>>>> many illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>>>>
>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want
>> a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business
>> in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>
> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.
>

I did not think of that. Get a fake passport and present that as proof of
citizenship. I wonder if that would work?

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:27 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <5nd2hjFhgi9aU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> > In article <5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> >>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
> >>>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
> >>>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
> >>>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
> >>>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
> >>>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
> >>>> <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but
> >>>>>> is happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
> >>>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
> >>>>>> sun for their wages.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
> >>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
> >>>>> choice?)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces
> >>>>> produce prices a few cents per pound.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
> >>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
> >>>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
> >>>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of
> >>>>> illegal aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what
> >>>>> would be LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices.
> >>>>> With so many illegals around growers have little reason to
> >>>>> further automate.
> >>>>>
> >>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You
> >>> want a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any
> >>> business in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
> >>
> >> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.
> >
> > And the penalty for possession of fake federal documents
> > should be a felony.

> Wont stop them.

Name me one criminal law that has ever actually stopped people from
committing the act that's criminalized. Yet no one sane is suggesting we
scrap the entire penal code just because it doesn't induce 100%
compliance.

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:29 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <4711576a$0$25686$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
> news:F82dnVJdVPWTgYzanZ2dnUVZ_tWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of them in
> >> this country as we speak. What percentage of them are picking crops?
> >> Why complain about a problem, if you have no solution to the problem?
> >> What is your solution to the problem? I am willing to bet whatever
> >> "solution" you propose, I can poke holes into your "solution" of why it
> >> won't work.
> >>
> >>
> >> "RuleOfLaw" <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
> >>>> happy
> >>>> to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their labour. I doubt
> >>>> he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot sun for their wages.
> >>>
> >>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
> >>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
> >>> choice?)
> >>>
> >>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
> >>> prices a few cents per pound.
> >>>
> >>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
> >>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal alien
> >>> labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal aliens
> >>> bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>>
> >>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
> >>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be LABOR-
> >>> SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so many
> >>> illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
> >>>
> > Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want a
> > job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business in the
> > United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
> >
>
> Did you read about what is actually happening. We now require employers to
> give the Social Security Administration the social security number of ANY
> new employee. If the Social Security Administration find no match, they
> advise the employer. But they have no authority to do anything "if" the
> employer does nothing about the notification. When there is a no match, the
> Social Securitu Administration sends that information to the Homeland
> Security people, who have no law enforcement ability.

Where do you get the idea that Homeland Security has no law enforcement
capability. The Border Patrol, ICE, Coast Guard and Secret Service all
have law enforcement authority and are all part of the Department of
Homeland Security.

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:00 pm
From: "Rick"

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-CD6BD3.20445205102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <051020071229457017%takebackamerica@2008.com>,
> Audie Murphy's Ghost <takebackamerica@2008.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <atropos-219FF0.06424405102007@news.giganews.com>, Thanatos
>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <051020070215029051%takebackamerica@2008.com>,
>> > Audie Murphy's Ghost <takebackamerica@2008.com> wrote:
>
>> > > I have never, not once, heard any of you Mexican-bashers
>> > > say anything about illegal immigration by Canadians,
>> > > Irish (or any other Western Europeans), or pretty much
>> > > anybody that's white and has some money.
>
>> > Well, now you have. An illegal Irish or Canadian or
>> > Australian alien should be scooped up and kicked out
>> > of the country just like any other illegal alien.
>>
>> Too damn late, Thanny.
>
> Too late for what?
>
>> Anyway, in five minutes this'll be all about
>> Mexicans again.
>
> They are the vast majority of the offenders of the law. Why wouldn't
> most of the discussion be about them?
>
> In Washington, DC, the vast majority of murders are committed by blacks.
> Should we just stop enforcing the homicide laws until the white people
> catch up on the killing?

If you could zero out the black homicides you would find from the FBI and
Justice Department stats that the US homicide rate would be slightly higher
than the European average.

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:25 pm
From: "Rick"

<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1192022969.526648.172590@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 6, 11:55 am, bearc...@cruller.invalid wrote:
>> In article <atropos-575347.20492905102...@news.giganews.com>,
>>
>> Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
>> > In article <bearclaw-8B4B7E.17525205102...@news.supernews.com>,
>> > bearc...@cruller.invalid wrote:
>>
>> > > In article <RPyNi.107992$GO6.96...@newsfe21.lga>,
>> > > clams casino <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > Any examples of which (illegal) groups are being over looked?
>>
>> > > How about the guys that piloted the planes into the WTC?
>>
>> > They weren't here illegally. They were actually documented foreign
>> > nationals. Unfortunately.
>>
>> Really? So then, how about illegals who have plotted or carried out
>> similar actions?
>>
>> What? There aren't any?
>
>
> Let's clear up one basic fact here that is incorrect. Three of the
> 911 hijackers had in fact VIOLATED US IMMIGRATION LAW. Here's an
> excerpt from the 911 Commission Report:
>
> ""Of the five hijackers who entered the United States more than once,
> three of them violated immigration law."
>
> It's true they didn't just walk across the border, but 3 were here in
> clear violation of US immigration law. One can only wonder if the US
> didn't have what amounts to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy when
> dealing with anyone who might be here illegally, if they would have
> been caught, checked out and/or deported. But, besides ignoring our
> borders, if someone is stopped by the police, in just about all
> jurisdictions, they aren't allowed to even question their immigration
> status. Here in NJ, the policy has been that even after being caught
> and suspected of a felony, an illegal was not reported to INS. They
> are routinely released on bail, without regard to their immigration
> status, which is beyond belief. The whole purpose of setting bail is
> to ensure that they return to court. Only a kook liberal would say
> that whether they are here legally or not has no bearing on that
> decision. Only after sentencing were they then usually reported to
> the INS. That whole process has now come under scrutiny, following
> an execution style murder of 3 college students in Newark a few months
> ago, where the vicitims were shot and one beheaded. Of the 4
> arrested for the murders, 2 were illegal aliens. One of the illegals
> was out on bail, despite having been arrested twice before here on
> felonies including assault, weapons charges and the rape of a child.
>
> And if anyone with common sense thinks about it, why wouldn't wanted
> criminals slip into the USA? In their own country, if they were
> wanted and got pulled over, the police would very likely identify them
> and arrest them. Here, you can start over again and be shielded by
> the liberals, who deny police the right to even question who you are
> and where you came from. And I'm sure I'll be called a racist too,
> for citing the above Newark example. I think the families of the
> victims, who happen to be black, however, would agree that race has
> nothing to do with this. It's just common sense law enforcement to
> know who is coming into your country and to deport those that are here
> illegally.
>
> For those that think allowing 1mil+ unknown persons to walk across the
> Mexican border, I'd like to ask this question. Why should that
> border be treated any different than any other entry point? Should
> we remove all immigration and customs checkpoints at our airports?
> And if some pro illegal immigration group wants to start chartering
> Boeing 747s, load them up in any 3rd world country and start bringing
> millions more uneducated, unskilled and unknown people here to the
> land of freedom, is that a good idea? We could start in Haiti or the
> Sudan,or parts of India. They are pretty bad off. And if not,
> isn't it discrimination against them, by only allowing it to occur at
> the MExican border? I expect that will be the next bogus claim and
> step down the liberal kook path.
>
>
> Oh, and one other thing from you, Bear, that I would like to
> address. You try to paint anyone that wants to enforce our
> immigration laws as racist, which the vast majority of us are not.
> Yet in one of your other posts, you feel free to make this comment:
>
> "Just like homosexuals, being a flaming racist doesn't make you not a
> racist. "
>
> While uniform enforcement of immigration laws is not racist, your
> comment clearly shows you to be a bigot. Sounds just like Archie
> Bunker.
>
>
Well in Mexico 3 low cost airlines have started flying passengers to the US
border knowing full well their passengers are about to illegally cross the
border.

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:28 pm
From: "Rick"

"William December Starr" <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fe9d0v$ov8$1@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <1mINi.10$Ge3.4@newsfe24.lga>,
> clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> said:
>
>> Explain how being an illegal immigrant is better (for the US) than
>> being a legal one.
>>
>> Other than perhaps (for the illegal) bypassing the line for all
>> those who are attempting to get here legally.
>
> I don't say it's better. I just say that it doesn't seem like that
> big a deal to me, especially in comparison to all the heat that's
> being generated over it these days.
>
> --
>Well for one thing they could be criminals or terrorists mixed in with the
>other illegals. Thought that would be pretty obvious.
>

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:44 pm
From: "Rick"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net...
> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:5nabtmFh94b9U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do
>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>
>>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>>>
>>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to
>>>>> deal with.
>>>
>>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>>>
>>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of
>>> the problem.
>>>
>>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>>>
>>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a
>>> long time now.
>>>
>>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
>>>>>>> problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can
>>>>>>> possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there are
>>>>>>> inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards in the US
>>>>>>> are much better than in mexico and so they move to US if they
>>>>>>> can.
>>>
>>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>>>
>>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
>>>>>>> the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
>>>>>>> didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are
>>>>>>> MUCH better than in china, and so hordes would prefer to leave
>>>>>>> china.
>>>
>>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to
>>>>>>>> forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>>>
>>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>>>
>>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>>>
>>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living standards.
>>>
>>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of
>>>> their birth rate.
>>>
>>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>>>
>>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem, that
>>> STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the living
>>> standards are STILL so far below what they are in the US that
>>> hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and migrate to
>>> another one, and that many of them are prepared to do that illegally.
>>>
>>>> While some countries have not.
>>>
>>> Like the entire third world, which just happens
>>> to be where the illegals are mostly coming from.
>>>
>>>>>>> And it clearly didnt work with Iraq anyway.
>>>
>>>>>> No one can say it will not work in Iraq.
>>>
>>>>> Corse anyone with a clue can say that.
>>>
>>>> Only someone who knows what will happen in the futrre can do that.
>>>
>>> Wrong. Its perfectly possible to notice that full civil war doesnt
>>> just stop by
>>> itself and that what the US is doing in Iraq isnt going to stop it
>>> any time soon.
>>>
>>>>>> All we can say is that it is not working yet.
>>>
>>>>> And it wont, you watch. Replacing the govt produced the inevitable
>>>>> result, a full civil war, and those dont just go away by wishing
>>>>> that would happen.
>>>
>>>>> Some have lasted for hundreds of years effectively, like with
>>>>> Ireland.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, and there is no civil war in Ireland now, because the english
>>>> did not give up.
>>>
>>> Nope, because the Irish eventually came to their senses, after
>>> CENTURYS. There isnt a shred of evidence that the stupid rag heads
>>> in Iraq will be giving up on their civil war any time soon.
>
>> If you can get the government of Mexico to get rid of most of their govt
>> run companies and free up that economy we wouldn't have to build a fence.
>
> Fantasy. The chinese have gone that route and there are STILL hordes of
> chinese that would move to any first world country that would have them.
>
>> Build the Fence!
>
> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
But fewer will try and that's a good thing. But any market reform in Mexico
would be better than what they have now.
>

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:45 pm
From: "Rick"

"Audie Murphy's Ghost" <takebackamerica@2008.com> wrote in message
news:131020071750204047%takebackamerica@2008.com...
> In article <BJOdnWmJUqLIgozanZ2dnUVZ_quhnZ2d@comcast.com>, Rick
> <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>
>> Build the Fence!
>
>
> That's exactly what Nikita Khrushchev said, and look how well *that*
> worked out.
>
> I guess they knew what they were doing when they named them the "red
> states."

But Khrushchev was keeping the East Germans from leaving. We just want to
keep the criminals and terrorists out.

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:49 pm
From: "Rick"

Where's the Fence!

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:50 pm
From: "Rick"

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47115572$0$32533$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
> news:P8OdnVvAmbj5gIzanZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> > In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>>> >> Do you have a workable plan?
>>>>>
>>>>> > Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem but
>>>>> > until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will
>>>>> > do my
>>>>> > damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be
>>>>> > done
>>>>> > at all."
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry can
>>>>> tell
>>>>> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to hear
>>>>> about
>>>>> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
>>>> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>>>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
>>>> solution to the problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either, so
>>> telling him about the problem does not solve the problem. On the other
>>> hand, if you told the boss "every 10th widgtet that comes off the
>>> assembly line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile" and you
>>> had a solution to stop that from happening, that you have not only
>>> pointed out a problem, but you have a way to stop that from happening.
>>> Problems cannot be corrected without a solution. It is not bad to point
>>> out problems, but it is a whole lot better, if you poitned out a problem
>>> and had a proposed solution.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you
>>>>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
>>>>> solving the
>>>>> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE has to
>>>>> come
>>>>> up with a solution.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>>>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>>>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>>>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
>>>> thread.
>>>
>>> Okay, let us talk about illegal immigration. First of all, no society
>>> has been very successdul at stopping people from doing what they want to
>>> do. People enter this country illegally because they believe they have a
>>> shot a living a better life here than where they come from. So, if you
>>> do not address that dynamic, then nothing else you do will work.
>>>>
>>>> Solutions:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
>>>> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
>>>> down by everyone.
>>>
>>> that is not a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
>>>> illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem.
>>> First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring these
>>> people. You can make it a whole lot more difficult on them, and you may
>>> stop more or most of them from hiring these illegals, but you will NEVER
>>> stop ALL of them from hiring illegals. But for the sake of discussion,
>>> let us for the moment assume that we can stop all businesses from hiring
>>> illegals. Will that work? No, it won't work. If you were in this
>>> country illegally, what you would do is work the underground economy, so
>>> all you have succeeded in doing is driving them to work in the
>>> underground economy, and then you have just made the job of finding them
>>> that much harder, if not impossible.
>>>
>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
>>>> they encounter.
>>>
>>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>>
>>>> Deport those that are found
>>>
>>> Lousy idea. You deport them and they just turn right around and
>>> re-enter this country illegally again. "If" we were really serious
>>> about providing them with a incentive not to enter this country
>>> illegally, let them spend some time in prison. And if they come back
>>> into this country illegally again, put them in prison for a longer
>>> period of time. That alone would work a whole lot better.
>>>>
>>>> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely with
>>>> satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like, we can
>>>> make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In fact, this
>>>> would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can secure the
>>>> borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to
>>>> Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing wrong with that idea. Of course there is a whole lot of water
>>> surrounding the United States, and there is the northern border which is
>>> open.
>>>>
>> But where is the fence?
>> It works in Israel.
>>
>
> I gather it is in the "construction" phase...sort of like a work in
> progress...

Have the Illegals build the fence which would cut the cost down for sure
then when it's almost complete push the workers over the fence.

Where's the fence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
>

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:52 pm
From: "Rick"

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47115654$0$20595$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5ncmc7FhapcpU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>
>>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>>>>>> Do you have a workable plan?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem
>>>>>>> but until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I
>>>>>>> will do my
>>>>>>> damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be
>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>> at all."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry
>>>>>> can tell
>>>>>> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to
>>>>>> hear about
>>>>>> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line
>>>>> has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to
>>>>> the boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't
>>>>> have a solution to the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either,
>>>> so telling him about the problem does not solve the problem. On the
>>>> other hand, if you told the boss "every 10th widgtet that comes off
>>>> the assembly line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile"
>>>> and you had a solution to stop that from happening, that you have
>>>> not only pointed out a problem, but you have a way to stop that from
>>>> happening. Problems cannot be corrected without a solution. It is
>>>> not bad to point out problems, but it is a whole lot better, if you
>>>> poitned out a problem and had a proposed solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you
>>>>>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
>>>>>> solving the
>>>>>> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE
>>>>>> has to come
>>>>>> up with a solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>>>>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>>>>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>>>>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in
>>>>> this thread.
>>>>
>>>> Okay, let us talk about illegal immigration. First of all, no
>>>> society has been very successdul at stopping people from doing what
>>>> they want to do. People enter this country illegally because they
>>>> believe they have a shot a living a better life here than where they
>>>> come from. So, if you do not address that dynamic, then nothing
>>>> else you do will work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Solutions:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
>>>>> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
>>>>> down by everyone.
>>>>
>>>> that is not a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs
>>>>> for illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem.
>>>> First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring these
>>>> people. You can make it a whole lot more difficult on them, and you
>>>> may stop more or most of them from hiring these illegals, but you
>>>> will NEVER stop ALL of them from hiring illegals. But for the sake
>>>> of discussion, let us for the moment assume that we can stop all
>>>> businesses from hiring illegals. Will that work? No, it won't
>>>> work. If you were in this country illegally, what you would do is
>>>> work the underground economy, so all you have succeeded in doing is
>>>> driving them to work in the underground economy, and then you have
>>>> just made the job of finding them that much harder, if not
>>>> impossible.
>>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens
>>>>> that they encounter.
>>>>
>>>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Deport those that are found
>>>>
>>>> Lousy idea. You deport them and they just turn right around and
>>>> re-enter this country illegally again. "If" we were really serious
>>>> about providing them with a incentive not to enter this country
>>>> illegally, let them spend some time in prison. And if they come
>>>> back into this country illegally again, put them in prison for a
>>>> longer period of time. That alone would work a whole lot better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely
>>>>> with satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like,
>>>>> we can make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In
>>>>> fact, this would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can
>>>>> secure the borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be
>>>>> coming in to Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in
>>>>> short order.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing wrong with that idea. Of course there is a whole lot of
>>>> water surrounding the United States, and there is the northern
>>>> border which is open.
>>
>>> But where is the fence?
>>> It works in Israel.
>>
>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>
> why son't it work?
>>
>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>>
>
> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much more
> difficult for them to come, they do keep coming. Second, we do have a wet
> foot/dry foot policy in this country when it comes to Cubans. It is not
> exactly a good policy if you don't want them to enter this country,
> instead it encourages them to keep trying. Thirdly, that is what is
> inconsistent about this whole argument about illegals. The government of
> the United States decides who is a legal alien and who is not, the wet
> foot/dry foot rule is a good example.
Well who should decide who should be legal or illegal?
Rod Speed?

It's been over a year now
Where's the Fence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Don't drain bathwater...use for flushing toliet and brushing teeth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8faea6b5dfaf6a24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:26 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192307077.410471.162570@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Our fresh water supply is under threat !
>
> An easy way to conserve water is to use your used bath water to flush
> the toliet.
> I'm mean heck, the tub and toliet are right next to each other
> anyhow, right ?
> Just have a bucket handy and there you go.
>
> And at the beginning of you bath/shower, why not brush your teeth in
> that clean water ?
>
> If you use a pure soap like Ivory, you may also use the water to
> water your plants with.

and here i thought were all supposed to be showering to save water.
i know i certainly don't want to stand around in dirty, soapy water
until my shower is done.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Empty 2 liter pop bottles excellent for keeping food in
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/84944fe20369a1e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:31 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Abe" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:jqi2h3pknfi30u2n0acgmk4gglq2msgik9@4ax.com...
> >On Oct 13, 4:29 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> I use empty 2 liter pop bottles to keep things like rice, oat meal,
>>> etc in and place these on
>>> top of my refrigerator.
>>> The containers are transparent. They're airtight and durable. I think
>>> superior to the original containers.
>>
>>Right. And who doesn't have all day to pour rice through a funnel into
>>a tiny hole?
>>Transparent is not always great for food storage either, but in this
>>case it could be an advantage. You can watch the small bugs crawling
>>around in your meal.
> All day? Try 15 seconds.

doesn't take long for those oatmeal bugs to hatch out.
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:34 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:29:33 -0700, Shadowland <saints2060@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> I use empty 2 liter pop bottles to keep things like rice, oat meal,
>etc in and place these on
> top of my refrigerator.
> The containers are transparent. They're airtight and durable. I think
>superior to the original containers.

There all shapes and sizes of plastic containers at the Dollar Stores,
They look good, are sealable and stackable A buck a container is
cheaper than the price of 2 litre bottle of pop you'd be better off
not drinking. There is a limit to being frugal beyond which it
becomes ridiculous.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy local produce
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:33 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192309873.968817.260810@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
> Let save all that fuel and buy local. Spending locally help your
> local economy also.

we can't grow oranges and bananas here. or grapefruit. or pineapple.
then again, we don't have giant, hissing cockroaches, either. :)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:17 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> we can't grow oranges and bananas here. or grapefruit. or pineapple.
> then again, we don't have giant, hissing cockroaches, either. :)

If you spend enough money, you can grow anything anywhere.

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Find a cheap cabin near Yosemite
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9d967f2bddd70b84?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:33 pm
From: ned_sud@yahoo.com

http://sonoracalifornia.blogspot.com/

there are many affordable small cabins for sale or rent near yosemite.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ugly Dish Antennas Nauseate Me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fd795758fa3f8c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 7:49 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 13, 6:09 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 13, 5:43 pm, Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>> unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> >>>>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> >>>> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the
> >>>> underpaid installers to choose the location. These installers
> >>>> don't care about appearances. This is the same reason that the
> >>>> trash cans hardly ever match the style of the house.
>
> >>>>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> >>>>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> >>>>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> >>>>> them.
>
> >>>> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the
> >>>> ugliest things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially
> >>>> ugly, only to be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are
> >>>> sprouting up like weeds these days.
>
> >>>> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can
> >>>> paint these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>
> >>> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.
>
> >> No they're not
>
> > Should be, not all of them, mine is ABS.
>
> Which has a metallised surface. Wont work if it doesnt.- Hide quoted text -

Nope, they can have a mesh embedded in them. Stick to something you
know like sucking off the public teat.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Worried about your wedding speech?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0633884cfe5d0b08?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 8:39 pm
From: Mark Anderson

In article anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com says...
> What a load. Does your spam come with the shovel?
> What is more important, a great wedding or a great marriage?
> Shouldn't all the days after the wedding count for something?

Not only that but I thought it was the best man who had to sweat out the
speech business.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:00 pm
From: Shadowland

On Oct 13, 4:53 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:

> How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
> Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
> air slower than containers of water.
>
> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?

Yes any of these will work.

However I'll add that should you have a power outage, containers of
cold water will keep your food cool longer than those others you
mention.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:19 pm
From: George

Don K wrote:
> "Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>> cooled again.
>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>
>
> How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
> Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
> air slower than containers of water.
>
> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
> Don
>
>
How about buckets of cool whip? It probably has a higher specific heat
that water and I think it has a twenty year storage life.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:14 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:53 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> "Shadowland" <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> > place containers of water into the empty areas.
> > Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> > refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> > cooled again.
> > With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> > there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> > That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
>
>
> Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
> Don

Right Don. Who doesn't have a stock of old 6CA7,EL34,6BQ5/
EL84,6L6,6K6,5881,6V6,and KT66 tubes around? The packages tend to get
real soggy though.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Shadowland <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> place containers of water into the empty areas.
> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> cooled again.
> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
> With a filled refrig you'll find your frig saving energy.

You'll actually find that you save so little energy that it doesnt
even save as much as cooling that water down does.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:40 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 13, 5:19 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Don K wrote:
> > "Shadowland" <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
> >> place containers of water into the empty areas.
> >> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
> >> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
> >> cooled again.
> >> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
> >> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
> >> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>
> > How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
> > Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
> > air slower than containers of water.
>
> > Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
> > Don
>
> How about buckets of cool whip? It probably has a higher specific heat
> that water and I think it has a twenty year storage life.- Hide quoted text -

Why buckets? We just use Cool Whip by itself.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:48 pm
From: Abe

>"Shadowland" <saints2060@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1192307907.160843.114090@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> If you find that your refrigerator is say usually only half full,
>> place containers of water into the empty areas.
>> Once that water cools, it acts like a cold sink. When you open the
>> refrig door, all the cool air gets out and the all the new air must be
>> cooled again.
>> With containers of water filling up empty space...that just means
>> there's less air that needs to be cooled.
>> That water keeps the coolness much better than the air.
>>
>
>How about filling it with plastic peanuts instead?
>Being an insulator, the peanuts will absorb heat from the outside
>air slower than containers of water.
>
>Or air-bag packing? Or thermos bottles? Or defunct vacuum tubes?
>
>Don
>
I think you need something with mass. Water or bricks, or Gel packs.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:11 pm
From: Shadowland

When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
Let save all that fuel and buy local. Spending locally help your
local economy also.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Welcome to hongfeng trade co.,ltd!We Wholesale many various famous
brands of sport shoes,bags,clothes and so on !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/030cd360afce9f13?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:27 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:32 pm, polly...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Aug 1st,2007
> Dear sir or madam,
> we accept paypal We are the one of the biggest suppliers in China for
> shoes and
> clothing our website:1.http://www.nikekickcoo.comMSN&E-
> mail:linda.c...@hotmail.com and linda10...@yahoo.com &We sell all
> kinds of brand shoes,as belows,

> all of our products are with Original box, card, label, No matter
> where you are in the world, you can order all these goods in very
> minimum quantity and receive it very and fast and safety. Pls feel
> free to contact us.
>

Interesting how so many top brands come from the same factory.
Somebody is busy printing "Original" labels over there.
I've been seeking some new Formosa Flyers like there were here in the
70's. Folks, these back alley or garage operations have us outnumbered.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:34 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:29 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I use empty 2 liter pop bottles to keep things like rice, oat meal,
> etc in and place these on
> top of my refrigerator.
> The containers are transparent. They're airtight and durable. I think
> superior to the original containers.

Right. And who doesn't have all day to pour rice through a funnel into
a tiny hole?
Transparent is not always great for food storage either, but in this
case it could be an advantage. You can watch the small bugs crawling
around in your meal.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:49 pm
From: Abe

>On Oct 13, 4:29 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I use empty 2 liter pop bottles to keep things like rice, oat meal,
>> etc in and place these on
>> top of my refrigerator.
>> The containers are transparent. They're airtight and durable. I think
>> superior to the original containers.
>
>Right. And who doesn't have all day to pour rice through a funnel into
>a tiny hole?
>Transparent is not always great for food storage either, but in this
>case it could be an advantage. You can watch the small bugs crawling
>around in your meal.
All day? Try 15 seconds.

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:40 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> unreelistuk@aol.com wrote:
>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
> installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
> appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> match the style of the house.
>
>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>> them.
>
> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
> things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
> be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
> these days.
>
> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
> these dishes any color or pattern you like.

Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.

> Perhaps a gingerbread pattern would help it blend in. I know in some communities they force the homeowners to build
> fancy 'bird houses' for these things.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:43 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
> >> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> >> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> > As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
> > installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
> > appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> > match the style of the house.
>
> >> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> >> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> >> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> >> them.
>
> > A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
> > things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
> > be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
> > these days.
>
> > On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
> > these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>
> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.

No they're not.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:01 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Oct 13, 5:43 pm, Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> > > unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
> > >> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> > >> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> > > As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
> > > installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
> > > appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
> > > match the style of the house.
>
> > >> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> > >> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> > >> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> > >> them.
>
> > > A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
> > > things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
> > > be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
> > > these days.
>
> > > On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
> > > these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>
> > Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.

> No they're not

Should be, not all of them, mine is ABS.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:09 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>>> unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>>>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>>
>>> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
>>> installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
>>> appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
>>> match the style of the house.
>>
>>>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>>>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>>>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>>>> them.
>>
>>> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the ugliest
>>> things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially ugly, only to
>>> be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are sprouting up like weeds
>>> these days.
>>
>>> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can paint
>>> these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>>
>> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.
>
> No they're not.

Yes they are.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 3:09 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:43 pm, Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
>>>>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>>
>>>> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the
>>>> underpaid installers to choose the location. These installers
>>>> don't care about appearances. This is the same reason that the
>>>> trash cans hardly ever match the style of the house.
>>
>>>>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
>>>>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
>>>>> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
>>>>> them.
>>
>>>> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the
>>>> ugliest things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially
>>>> ugly, only to be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are
>>>> sprouting up like weeds these days.
>>
>>>> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can
>>>> paint these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>>
>>> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.
>
>> No they're not
>
> Should be, not all of them, mine is ABS.

Which has a metallised surface. Wont work if it doesnt.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:11 pm
From: "Lou"

"unreelistuk@aol.com" <user132384@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1192301578.122797.74120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo and
> behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of one of
> them.
>

Right. If you for whatever reason live in an older house, you have to claim
to the amenities and benefits of the present day. Those people should have
the heat from wood burning fireplaces, no indoor plumbing, and probably
should be reading in the evening by the light of whale oil lamps. Of
course, whale oil is a little hard to come by these days, so instead they
should just go to bed early.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:45 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 4:24 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Our fresh water supply is under threat !
>
> An easy way to conserve water is to use your used bath water to flush
> the toliet.
> I'm mean heck, the tub and toliet are right next to each other
> anyhow, right ?
> Just have a bucket handy and there you go.
>
> And at the beginning of you bath/shower, why not brush your teeth in
> that clean water ?
>
> If you use a pure soap like Ivory, you may also use the water to
> water your plants with.

How about attaching a marine bilge pump to the side of the toilet tank
and running a line to the tub? Then just fill the toilet as needed.
You could carefully drill a hole in the side of the tub to run a hose
there and eliminate the bucket brigade.

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:50 pm
From: Audie Murphy's Ghost

In article <BJOdnWmJUqLIgozanZ2dnUVZ_quhnZ2d@comcast.com>, Rick
<videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:

> Build the Fence!

That's exactly what Nikita Khrushchev said, and look how well *that*
worked out.

I guess they knew what they were doing when they named them the "red
states."

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:05 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <47110f45$0$20629$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-5F30CC.19540512102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <470fc3af$0$32517$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> news:atropos-995849.19110211102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <470e6d4e$0$20581$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:atropos-3D6BE2.23071010102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >
> >> >> > Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any
> >> >> > city, county or state that undermines federal law by
> >> >> > implementing "sanctuary" policies.
> >> >>
> >> >> and if they won't be intimidated by such tactics, then what?
> >> >
> >> > Then we've saved a lot of tax dollars that can be used for something
> >> > else (or, heaven forbid, refunded to the citizens) and the problem is
> >> > no
> >> > worse than it was before.
> >>
> >> But you haven't solved the problem then have you?
> >
> > Haven't made it worse, either, and the federal government gets the
> > benefit of saving a few billion dollars.
>
> The Federal government NEVER saves money. Whatever money they do not spend
> in one area, they spend in another area. It is like one of my wifes
> favorite saying when she comes home from a day of shopping. "See how much
> money I saved" by buying these things on sale?
> >
> > Besides, the states and cities are so chronically addicted to federal
> > money if the federal government cut it off, you'd see every one of these
> > sanctuary policies dry up and blow away like tumbleweeds in the blink of
> > an eye. These mayors and city councilmen would have riots on their hands
> > if they suddenly had to either drastically cut city services or hike
> > taxes through the roof to make up for the shortfall in their budgets
> > where the federal money used to be.
>
> Do you for a second believe that the elected members of Congress from these
> states are going to go along with that idea?

You keep falling back on that as if it somehow saves your argument. I
stated from the beginning that the main problem is the lack of political
will to do anything about illegal immigration. You then took issue with
me and challenged me to come up with some solutions. Now every time I
come up with something that *would* work if implemented, you respond by
telling me there's no political will to do it-- which is exactly what I
said to begin with.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:06 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:

> > Build the Fence!
>
> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.

The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
soil, the law says they get to stay.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:07 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
> >> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
> >> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
> >> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
> >> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
> >> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw" <miltonez@aol.com>
> >> wrote in message
> >> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
> >>>> happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
> >>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
> >>>> sun for their wages.
> >>>
> >>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
> >>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
> >>> choice?)
> >>>
> >>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
> >>> prices a few cents per pound.
> >>>
> >>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
> >>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
> >>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
> >>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>>
> >>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
> >>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be
> >>> LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so
> >>> many illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
> >>>
> > Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want
> > a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business
> > in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>
> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.

And the penalty for possession of fake federal documents should be a
felony.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>>>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>>>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>>>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>>>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>>>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
>>>> <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but
>>>>>> is happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>>>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>>>>>> sun for their wages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>>>> choice?)
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces
>>>>> produce prices a few cents per pound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>>>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>>>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of
>>>>> illegal aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what
>>>>> would be LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices.
>>>>> With so many illegals around growers have little reason to
>>>>> further automate.
>>>>>
>>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You
>>> want a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any
>>> business in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>>
>> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.
>
> And the penalty for possession of fake federal documents should be a felony.

Wont stop them.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:29 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nciueFgo8o6U1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do
>>>>>>>>> that.
>
>>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>
>>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to deal
>>>>> with.
>
>>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>
>>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of the
>>> problem.
>
>>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>
>>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a long
>>> time now.
>
>>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
>>>>>>>> problem.
>
>>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
>>>>>>> problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can
>>>>>>> possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there are
>>>>>>> inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards in the US
>>>>>>> are much better than in mexico and so they move to US if they can.
>
>>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>
>>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
>>>>>>> the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
>>>>>>> didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are MUCH
>>>>>>> better than in china, and so hordes would prefer to leave china.
>
>>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to
>>>>>>>> forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>
>>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>
>>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>
>>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living standards.
>
>>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>
>>> Nope.
>
>>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of
>>>> their birth rate.
>
>>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>
>>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem, that
>>> STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the living
>>> standards are STILL so far below what they are in the US that
>>> hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and migrate to
>>> another one, and that many of them are prepared to do that illegally.
>
>> You are concentrating on the faulures and not the successes.
>
> Nope, just rubbing your nose in the FACT that while ever there is such
> a gross difference in the living standards between the worst of the third
> world and the US, there will inevitably be hordes that are prepared to
> risk even the death of their kids to move to the US and that your proposal
> for a jail that consists of tents in the desert isnt going to make any
> real
> difference deterrence wise when they are prepared to take that sort of
> risk.

Are you going to argue that it would not be a better tactic to throw these
people in jail and to increase the prison time they have to spend in jail,
every other time they are caught in this country illegally, that would not
have an effect on their "decision" to enter this country illegally, and that
it would not deter some from trying? And why don't you think putting them
into tent cities would not work, when the facts seem to indicate otherwise.
Look at the re-incarciration rate of the city in Arizona, where the
prisoners are put into tent cities.
>
> Even the sort of gung ho approach to jails that the chinese
> have STILL doesnt have any real effect on the North Koreans
> prepared to risk death for a better standard of living.
>
>> Do you for a second believe that regardless of the birrthrate in the
>> United States, that this country could not have absorbed that rate?
>
> Corse it could, but it clearly chooses not to let anyone
> who wants to move to the US to do that anymore.

Who is "forcing" people not to do that?
>
>
>> When I think of third world countries I think of places like Africa. But
>> regardless, if you look at the problems that all third world countries
>> have, they have sone things in common.
>
> And the most obvious difference they have in common is MUCH lower
> standards of living, particularly for the dregs of their society in their
> slums etc. And that is what is driving the hordes of illegals that have
> decided that their economic prospects are MUCH better in the US.

Which is the problem. We are trying to stop people who for their own
selfish needs, want to leave the country of their birth.
>
> Its what drives North Koreans into china too.

Yep
>
>> They all have incompetent governments, who cannot seem to
>> adopt polices or don't want to adopt policies, which would actually
>> make the lives of the people in their countries much better.
>
> The VERY fundamental problem is that while ever the birth rate is so
> much greater than economy can ever provide decent living standards
> for, there is nothing any govt can actually do about that policy wise.

I do not agree with you. India had a major problem with feeding their
people a number of decades ago. The Rockerfeller Foundation came up with a
way for the country to raise hybrid rice, that would grow in India. India
embraced this new hybrid rice. India who use to be a net importer of rice,
is now (or at least was when the new hybrid rice was used became
self-reliant and no longer needed to import rice).
>
> And even when a particular govt does adopt an extremely gung
> ho approach to that problem like the chinese did, with what is
> essentially compulsory abortion when you already have one brat,
> that STILL doesnt produce living standards anything like what the
> US has, and so there is STILL an immense number of the dregs
> of any society that will move to the US if they can do that.

When you start at the bottom of the barrel, don't expect miracles to happen,
and that you will be on the top of the barrel overnight. The fact is that
China seems to be doing a much better job of taking care of the needs of
their people, and if they can keep that going, will do a much better job of
taking care of the needs of their people as time passes.
>
> So the govts while hopeless are essentially irrelevant to
> the fundamental problem of illegal immigrants in the US.

Governments are never hopeless. They can change. It just requires a
willingness to change.
>
>> Africa seems to have another major problem, they don't seem to be able to
>> produce enough food for their population.
>
> They could if things were organised properly. And
> again, the fundamental problem is the birth rate.

No!! If you have a high birthrate, all that means is you have to do a
better job.
>
> Even HIV/AIDS isnt having much real effect on that.

It is a mater of how many die and what the "replacement" rate is.
>
>> You can abosorb as many people as you want, "if" you can figure out how
>> to provide your people with what are the necessities in life.
>
> There's no one starving in Mexico, so thats irrelevant to what
> is being discussed, ILLEGALS who decide that their prospects
> are much better in the US than in the country they are leaving.

You do not have to be starving to want to seek a better life. The East
Germans were not starving either.
>
> Thats true in spades of the Cubans who are
> prepared to risk death to move to the US.
>
> The real world is about a hell of a lot more than JUST the necessitys of
> life.

It is? These "necessities" of life mean that if you have it, you live a
reasonably good life, and if you do not have it, you live a less than
reasonable life.
>
>>>>>>> And it clearly didnt work with Iraq anyway.
>
>>>>>> No one can say it will not work in Iraq.
>
>>>>> Corse anyone with a clue can say that.
>
>>>> Only someone who knows what will happen in the futrre can do that.
>
>>> Wrong. Its perfectly possible to notice that full civil war doesnt just
>>> stop by
>>> itself and that what the US is doing in Iraq isnt going to stop it any
>>> time soon.

The USA had a civil war, a really big one. Did we end up better off than
when the civil war started?
>
>>>>>> All we can say is that it is not working yet.
>
>>>>> And it wont, you watch. Replacing the govt produced the inevitable
>>>>> result, a full civil war, and those dont just go away by wishing that
>>>>> would happen.

You seem to also be engaged in wishful thinking and wishful thinking of the
worse kind. You seem to want there to be a civil war.
>
>>>>> Some have lasted for hundreds of years effectively, like with Ireland.
>
>>>> Yep, and there is no civil war in Ireland now, because the english did
>>>> not give up.
>
>>> Nope, because the Irish eventually came to their senses, after CENTURYS.

But would they have come to their senses if the English has simply given up?
>
>>> There isnt a shred of evidence that the stupid rag heads
>>> in Iraq will be giving up on their civil war any time soon.
>
>
We will never know, but one thing we can say we certainty, you cannot
succeed if you give up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Freebies, samples, bargains, and More!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2576183ec5a395bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 2:52 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 13, 2:45 pm, shopstar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Do you like freebies, bargains, coupons, samples, and a fun
> community? Do you have freebies or deals to share? Then, ShopStar
> Forums is the place for you!
>
> Here are just some of the things you can expect with ShopStar Forums:
>
> *Be one of the first 500 registered members and be placed in a drawing
> for $25!

Hmmm. One chance in 500 to win $25. On average, that makes your offer
worth a nickel. Who wouldn't want to take that chance!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Ask Amy": What do you owe to parents while you're in school?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac88d29cbf7fb41d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 4:28 pm
From: "Lou"

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4710cb57$0$32475$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> <goaway@fractious.net> wrote in message
> news:yob8x672lbc.fsf@panix2.panix.com...
> >
> >>
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/columnists/advice/chi-1010askamyoct10,0,295793.column
> >>
> >> Recently I was offered a full-time position at a local company, and I
> >> intend to take it. Now my mother has decided to demand money from me
> >> when I start this job. I've never asked her for a dime for baby-
> >
> > It wasn't clear if this guy is living in his mom's house
> > or not. If he's living in her house and has a full time
> > job outside the house, he should be paying rent.
>
> I think a reasonable way to base "rent" for an immediate family member is
to
> estimate the amount expenses increase as a result of the individual living
> there and base the charge on that. IOW, if mortgage payments would be the
> same regardless, I can't see charging a prorated portion, especially for
> someone who's going to school and will presumably leave the nest in a few
> years. However, if the family requires a larger home than they would
> otherwise, then it would be reasonable to charge them. Certainly an
employed
> family member should be paying for every cent of the groceries they
consume,
> and covering a prorated portion of the utilities.
>
I wouldn't entirely agree with that. A reasonable rent would be the local
market price, presuming there is one, for renting a room out to someone
who's not related. Here in NJ, that would be anywhere from $500 to $1,000
month for a furnished room. That would cover utilities (water and
electricity, not phone service or internet access), allow kitchen
privileges, and use of a bathroom. Not covered in that would be laundry
(probably not even use of the washer and dryer), food, or cooking services.
On the other hand, a paying boarder wouldn't normally be expected to do
chores around the house. An adult with a full time job should be expected
to pull his own weight.