Frugal Living: Oct 17, 2007

Wednesday, October 17, 2007

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:12 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47166dda$0$11611$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>> But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
>>>>>>> (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and
>>>>>>> then ignore it.
>
>>>>>> They are the ones who make the laws.
>
>>>>> And they also have to abide by them.
>
>>>> Not really.
>
>>> Yes really.
>
>> If everyone abided by the law, you would not need laws.
>
> Irrelevant to what is being discussed there, the LAWMAKERS needing to
> abide by them.

That would be nice if they did. But of course we all know they do not.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:14 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-7D7B60.17454217102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <47165ba9$0$32539$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:atropos-BDE3E1.20501716102007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <47154f8c$0$15354$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:atropos-373F81.15084316102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article <47150409$0$4995$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> >> > But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
>> >> >> > (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and
>> >> >> > then
>> >> >> > ignore it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They are the ones who make the laws.
>> >> >
>> >> > And they also have to abide by them.
>> >>
>> >> Not really.
>> >
>> > Yes really.
>>
>> If everyone abided by the law, you would not need laws.
>> >
>> >> >> They have the power to change the law
>> >> >
>> >> > And until they do, they have to abide by them.
>> >> >
>> >> >> They passed the fourteenth ammendment, then reversed
>> >> >> themselves and invalidated the fourteenth ammendment.
>> >> >
>> >> > Really? I wasn't aware the 14th had been repealed. Which amendment
>> >> > repealed it?
>> >>
>> >> Soory I meant the 18th and 21 st Amendment
>> >
>> > Note that until they passed the 21st Amendment, the government had to
>> > abide by the restrictions of the 18th.
>>
>> And do you really think that every member of Congress, every member of
>> their
>> staff at the time, everyone working for the Government, including those
>> who
>> were in law enforcement abided by the law, when prohibition was the law
>> of
>> the land? If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
>
> Your logic is not our earth logic. When legislators break the law, they
> get arrested just like anyone else. Does the name Larry Craig ring a
> bell?

Only if they get caught, and only if when caught they are bought to justice.
Remember Willaim Jefferson?

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:15 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nn78hFjb2tdU2@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Build the Fence!
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to U.S. soil, the law says they get to stay.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they
>>>>>>>>>>>> get to stay here as foreign residents at a minimum.
>
>>>>>>>>>>> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the
>>>>>>>>>>> line" and those illegals who are in this country already,
>>>>>>>>>>> "jumping ahead of the line"?
>
>>>>>>>>>> It's part of a program President Kennedy or Johnson put in place
>>>>>>>>>> for the bang up job they did in the Bay of Pigs.
>
>>>>>>>>> No it isnt, it preceeded that.
>
>>>>>>>> What preceded that?
>
>>>>>>> That business about them being allowed to stay if
>>>>>>> they made it to the US preceeded the Bay of Pigs.
>
>>>> http://origin.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/americas/17289788.htm?source=rss&channel=miamiherald_americas
>
>>> Irrelevant to what happened legally just after Castro took over.
>
>> Huh?
>
> What was being discussed was whether cubans who got to the
> US were legally allowed to stay before the bay of pigs. They were.
> That preceeded the bay of pigs, so cant have been due to the bay of pigs.
>

Thanks for the clarification

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:17 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nn7pkFi3gvlU2@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they
>>>>>>>>>>>> have now.
>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of
>>>>>>>>>>> illegals.
>
>>>>>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...",
>>>>>>>>>> it did not even mention NAFTA.
>
>>>>>>>>> Its a similar economic change.
>
>>>>>>>> Why is it "similar"?
>
>>>>>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.
>
>>>>>> Ageed
>
>>>>>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem
>>>>>>>>>> (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you going to
>>>>>>>>>> argue that it won't "help"?
>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in
>>>>>>>>> Mexico, that wont have any effect on the number that still
>>>>>>>>> decide that their prospects are much better in the US than
>>>>>>>>> back in Mexico.
>
>>>>>> Agreed again, but it helps....
>
>>>>> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.
>
>>>>>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would
>>>>>>>> not otherwise have,
>
>>>>>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.
>
>>>>>> huh?
>
>>>>> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
>>>>> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.
>
>>>>>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this
>>>>>>>> country illegally?
>
>>>>>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA
>>>>>>> still provides them with much worse living standards than moving
>>>>>>> to the US does.
>
>>>>>> so?
>
>>>>> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico wont
>>>>> actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing to move
>>>>> to the US, essentially because whatever is done in Mexico will STILL
>>>>> see them with much worse living standards in mexico than in the US.
>
>>>>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in
>>>>>> Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?
>
>>>>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>>>>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>>>>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.
>
>>>> then why aren't more of them here?
>
>>> Because the US makes it hard for mexicans to just move to the US.
>
>> that sure has worked hasn't it?
>
> Have the remotest concept of how many there would have been if any
> south american that wanted to move to the US was free to do so ?
>
> In spades with the rest of the world.
>

Well yes. But my argument is they would not want to come here in droves, if
they could make a decent living in the country of their birth. And as long
as they cannot, they will come.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:19 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47166dc6$0$11608$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate
>
> Completely useless on that living standards question.
>
> Not one of those with a birth rate that mexico has
> has anything like the living standards that the US has.
>
> It isnt possible for any govt to produce the living standards
> that the US has when they have a birth rate that Mexico has.
>
Did you really bother to look at the list?

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:54 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote

>>>>>>>> But they have to do it according to established law. They can't (legally) just pass a law declaring something
>>>>>>>> to be illegal and then ignore it.

>>>>>>> They are the ones who make the laws.

>>>>>> And they also have to abide by them.

>>>>> Not really.

>>>> Yes really.

>>> If everyone abided by the law, you would not need laws.

>> Irrelevant to what is being discussed there, the LAWMAKERS needing to abide by them.

> That would be nice if they did. But of course we all know they do not.

Those that dont get dealt with the same way that everyone else does.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.

>>>>>>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in
>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico...", it did not even mention NAFTA.

>>>>>>>>>> Its a similar economic change.

>>>>>>>>> Why is it "similar"?

>>>>>>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.

>>>>>>> Ageed

>>>>>>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem
>>>>>>>>>>> (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you going to
>>>>>>>>>>> argue that it won't "help"?

>>>>>>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in
>>>>>>>>>> Mexico, that wont have any effect on the number that still
>>>>>>>>>> decide that their prospects are much better in the US than
>>>>>>>>>> back in Mexico.

>>>>>>> Agreed again, but it helps....

>>>>>> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.

>>>>>>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would
>>>>>>>>> not otherwise have,

>>>>>>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.

>>>>>>> huh?

>>>>>> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
>>>>>> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.

>>>>>>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter
>>>>>>>>> this country illegally?

>>>>>>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from
>>>>>>>> NAFTA still provides them with much worse living standards
>>>>>>>> than moving to the US does.

>>>>>>> so?

>>>>>> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico
>>>>>> wont actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing
>>>>>> to move to the US, essentially because whatever is done in
>>>>>> Mexico will STILL see them with much worse living standards in
>>>>>> mexico than in the US.

>>>>>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country
>>>>>>> illegally?

>>>>>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>>>>>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>>>>>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

>>>>> then why aren't more of them here?

>>>> Because the US makes it hard for mexicans to just move to the US.

>>> that sure has worked hasn't it?

>> Have you the remotest concept of how many there would have been if any south american that wanted to move to the US
>> was free to do so ?

>> In spades with the rest of the world.

> Well yes. But my argument is they would not want to come here in
> droves, if they could make a decent living in the country of their birth.

Pity that no one has managed to work out how to produce the same
living standards in those countrys as there are in the US to stop hordes
deciding that their economic situation would be much better in the US.

> And as long as they cannot, they will come.

And since no one has managed to work out how to produce the same
living standards in those countrys as there are in the US to stop hordes
deciding that their economic situation would be much better in the US,
the US will continue to see heaps choose to move to the US illegally.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:04 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:47166dc6$0$11608$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate
>>
>> Completely useless on that living standards question.
>>
>> Not one of those with a birth rate that mexico has
>> has anything like the living standards that the US has.
>>
>> It isnt possible for any govt to produce the living standards
>> that the US has when they have a birth rate that Mexico has.
>>
> Did you really bother to look at the list?

I didnt need to, I produced by own from the CIA list by
importing it into Excel and sorting it it on the birth rate.

Not that that told me anything I didnt already know, that no country
with a birth rate of what mexico has or higher has living standards
anything like what the US has and that there are plenty with birth
rates significantly lower than what mexico has STILL have living
standards MUCH worse than the US, like China most obviously.

So we are fresh out of magic wands to wave to fix the fundamental
cause of illegals in the US, the fact that the living standards where
they are coming from are much worse than in the US.

You can proclaim that the countrys they are coming from should be
fixing that problem if you like, but until you can demonstrate how that
can be done, its just completely silly to suggest that that is the solution.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 8:30 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <4716a56b$0$15422$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-7D7B60.17454217102007@news.giganews.com...

> > Your logic is not our earth logic. When legislators
> > break the law, they get arrested just like anyone else.
> > Does the name Larry Craig ring a bell?

> Only if they get caught, and only if when caught they are
> bought to justice.

Which can be said of everyone. You're talking in circles again. First
you claim that lawmakers belong to some protected class that's above the
law, then when it's pointed out that they get arrested just like
everyone else, you say "Only if they get caught!"-- which is true of
everyone, lawmaker or not. How many regular citizens get arrested,
prosecuted and/or imprisoned without being caught first?

> Remember Willaim Jefferson?

Yeah, he's been indicted, sparky.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Global Home Based Biz Tap Lucrative Prosumer MiddleClass Markets 45+
Countries
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/886e79c441d6bf93?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:35 pm
From: "AcaiPlus2@gmail.com"

SUBJECT LINE: Residual Income Biz

Hi,

Are you interested in looking at a side business that can generate a
very serious residual income? I'm launching something huge,
looking for leaders in your area, and I'd love to have you on the
team.

I just began working with Randy Schroeder in a network marketing
business. Randy, if you don't know him, is a multi-million-dollar
producer with a long track record of helping people reach success in
the business.

I joined because it's my first chance to work direct with some of the
most successful people in the industry, including Randy. So now I'm on
his team and we're looking for people who want to capitalize on a
chance to get in early.

Randy has uncovered a little-known new company that meets ALL of the
criteria to be the next billion-dollar company in the industry. I plan
to lock up a legacy position and I'm looking for leaders in North
America and across the globe who want to work with me and lock in
their own spots. You could be one of these people.

Here are the factors that make this such a powerful opportunity right
now:

#1) The company is just launching now!
We have a real window of opportunity to get ahead in the race,
before most people even know there is one. I want my people to own
North America, before the mass market even hears of the
company. To do that, we're looking for 100 leaders in 100
cities. We'll be training those leaders with a daily, weekly, and
monthly method of operation, showing them how to own their
local market and springboard from there.

#2) The company is backed by a strong venture capital partner.
You have the allure and tremendous rewards of getting in a startup,
but without the financial risks normally associated with that
situation. The funding company was started by one of the founders
of WordPerfect, who sold that company to Novell for over a billion
dollars. They've got serious money and they've made a commitment
to fund this to the top.

#3 The product story is revolutionary.
The products are based on an amazing scientific breakthrough that
creates an entire new product category, so the market potential is
beyond enormous. Yet it is a simple concept that makes so much
sense people "get" it right away. Everyone in the world would benefit
from the products and one use makes that clear to them.

#4 The compensation plan innovation.
The company is offering eight different ways to earn, with most of
them residual income. More importantly they have pioneered the
biggest innovation in compensation of the last 15-20 years, the
Leveraged Matching Bonus. If you know anything about how these
plans work, you're going to be extremely excited when you understand
this feature.

Because of the nature of the compensation plan, positioning and
timing are important. Right now I am looking for leaders who
understand the power of being in at launch and want to lock in a
legacy position. I believe you have what it takes to do something big
with this. We have about a two year window when legacy positions
will be created.

So do you want to hear about this?
Or are you too busy with your other stuff to look?

Please get back with me right away. Thanks,

David Hall
QuadraIncome@gmail.com

http://www.dphall.ageluniverse.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: As Seen on TV - A Huge Tip!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3bafebe6374b1da7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:39 pm
From: helenmelvin

Re: Paying Pennies on the Dollar For Everyday Expenses!

If you are looking to slash all your expenses by 75% then you found
the right place! This is how the television show began. The company
has a website at http://clubpayless.com I thought it was very
interesting and decided to check it out. I am very skeptical by
nature so the first thing I did was check out the company. I
contacted the Better Business Bureau and found that the company has
had no complaints lodged against them, I also contacted Paypal who
has verified this company. They told me that they verified the
company's licenses, bank accounts and other paperwork indicating to
them that the company is legitimate. Then I started asking co-
workers and friends about this program and to my surprise 6 out of
the 10 people that I spoke with were already using this program.
They told me how pleased they were with it and how much money they
had saved and are currently saving. So I decided to sign up for this
program on 9/17/07. On 9/21/07 I received my complete membership
package and the fun began. Using their program and the free lifetime
membership that it includes I went to the supermarket ready to make
a killing. The cashier rang up my grocery bill and it came out to
$239.87 then using this program, I saved $223.38 - my final bill was
only 16.49! The cashier wasn't the only one shocked! I then joined
their Wholesale Mall this place is full of amazing items at great
prices. I am almost done with my Christmas shopping and I only spent
a fraction of what I did last year!

Helen M.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Update on the Free iPod from Key Bank
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2f5122d4b3b41d48?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:06 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

> THE FREE iPOD is HERE!! Whoo! Whoo!

> FedX delivered a package today from "The Fulfillment Center"
> and I knew exactly what was in it. Inside the box, inside
> a padded envelope, was a 4GB iPod Nano. And it's the new
> wider model.

> THere was also a rather diminutive getting started guide.
> Needed my reading glasses to read it. IT's obvious which
> generation they are marketing this to.

The reality is that its what fits easiest in the box with that diminutive ipod.

> So if you happen to by riding Portland's Max, and see
> a middle aged, slightly balding, slightly overweight, guy
> listening to an iPod with a big grin... Well now you know why.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lithium Ion or NiMH power tool "systems": Which one?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6a98c39c7645880f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:13 pm
From: E Z Peaces

me@privacy.net wrote:
> I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
> device but all the consumer ones have built in
> rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
> dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
> wasteful!!
>
> I recently came across many power tool "systems" where
> you buy the battery units separate and they can be
> slipped on various hand tools such as drill, chop saw,
> and hand vacs!
>
> Curious which brand/model is the best value in terms of
> light weight, stamina, etc?
>
> Is Li-Ion better than say NiMH?

The NiCad is widely used for power tools. It's safe, simple, and the
longest lasting. It thrives on fast charges and fast discharges. NiMH
his a higher power density but won't tolerate fast charges as well.
More can go wrong with charging and the self-discharge is faster.

Li-Ion are expensive for a given capacity. The available current is
limited because high current can cause them to catch fire.

>
> Any brands to consider such as Black and Decker new GPX
> system?
>
I haven't heard of it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: the price is wrong, @#%&@!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6ff0a0f299d2fb17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:14 pm
From: Logan Shaw

OhioGuy wrote:
> Next there was a
> concerted effort to remove the symbol for cents from common usage.

I tend to wonder if that wasn't possibly caused by limitations of typewriters
and then exacerbated by limitations of computers. Having to choose only one
of the two because of a limit to the number of symbols available, they
eliminated the one could less easily serve double-duty.

> Now it looks
> like the plain old decimal place is also going the way of the dodo, because
> I guess it's just too much trouble to bother with.

I think there's a more depressing explanation. It's not that the decimal
place that is becoming less popular. Instead, it's plain old education.
People put "$49" as the price for bananas because they either don't know
the difference or, through years of brain atrophy, have ceased caring.

- Logan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 9:59 pm
From: Abe

> I see it all the time - signs saying "milk $250 a gallon", or "bananas
>$49 a pound" It annoys my wife so much that she has complained to store
>managers, and has toyed with the idea of taking a black permanent marker
>along with her.
>
> Is it really so hard to put a decimal place in a sign? I mean, they went
>to the bother of putting the units on the sign, so why not get the price
>right?
>
> First they tried to foist the Metric System on us. Next there was a
>concerted effort to remove the symbol for cents from common usage. Later
>there was the "War on Christmas" (happy holidays, everyone!). Now it looks
>like the plain old decimal place is also going the way of the dodo, because
>I guess it's just too much trouble to bother with.
>
It's just sheer stupidity/ignorance/cheapness to leave out a decimal
place. Without it, the price being displayed is incorrect.

My supermarket has a policy where if an item rings up differently than
how it's priced on the shelf/bin, the item is free.

If yours has the same policy, you could have some fun messing with
their heads. Say "Hey the price for these bananas are $79 a pound, and
you rang it up as 79 cents per pound. I think I should get them for
free." When they look at you like you're a loon, stay serious and
insist on the free item. Do it again and again on subsequent visits.
Let's see how long it takes them to start using decimals in their
pricing. Could be lots of fun.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you planning for Sweetest Day this Saturday?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/045f914110927a39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:16 pm
From: "Ben Jackson"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:ff0k4f$qkl$1@aioe.org...
> Just wondering what everyone else is planning on doing to show their
> appreciation for their significant other on Sweetest Day this year?

I'd never heard of it before this. In fact, until I saw the Wikipedia entry,
I thought maybe you were making it up.

> >To ignore what is just another stupid con job.
>
> How so? I spoke to my Grandfather, and he says most folks around here
> have celebrated it since he was a kid. (and he's 84)
>
> It is also on our wall calendar.

My calendar also lists Canadian Thanksgiving and United Nations Day among
this month's "holidays"; I won't be celebrating those either.

>
> Why would you consider an opportunity to show your appreciation to
> someone you love (at little cost, I might add) to be a con job?

Why would you need an obscure, predominantly midwestern to show your
appreciation to someone you love?

>
> 50 years ago, Sweetest Day was mostly celebrated in the Midwest.
> However, as jobs moved, the Interstates were built, and people started
> becoming more mobile, they took their local holidays with them, including
> Sweetest Day.
>
> That is why Texas, California and Florida are now up in the top 10 as far
> as # of people celebrating Sweetest Day. Just 10 years ago, it was still
> all Midwest states.

Well, I hate to burst your bubble but I've lived in Texas for more than ten
years and had never heard of
"Sweetest Day" before stumbling across this thread. You may very well be
right about Texas being in the top 10, but I suspect that that's like saying
that Louisiana is one of the top five states in the country for "Talk Like A
Pirate Day" -- it just doesn't mean very much.

The interesting thing about all this is that, assuming with Wikipedia entry
is accurate (always a risky assumption, I admit), the original Sweetest Day
involved giving free boxes of candy to "newsboys, orphans, old folks, and
the poor", which seems like a very kind thing to do. It's really a shame
that what may have started out as a day for doing something nice for the
less fortunate has been turned into another excuse for crass commercialism.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Use flat bed sheets only?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/11daf24d12dfd175?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:42 pm
From: Logan Shaw

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Curious if anyone here refuses to use fitted bed sheets
> and instead uses two flat sheets?

I was under the impression that fitted sheets are a relatively
recent invention (maybe 1950's?) that came about when elastic
became practical for the purpose. Before that, everyone would
have used only flat sheets.

I also vaguely recall hearing they may have used buttons or snaps
sewn onto the mattress in order to hold the sheets in place. I
could be wrong, but even if I am, I suppose it would work. Buttons
in particular should work well, because if you put the buttons on the
mattress itself, all you've got to do is put button holes in the
sheets (and you can use several different sheets with the same
bed without buying more buttons). You could use other types of
fasteners as well, maybe even laces (with which you could probably
get the sheets very taut, if you're into bouncing quarters).

On the other hand, learning to fold fitted sheets isn't that bad.
It's true it can be a pain during the 25-year learning curve, but
once you've got it mastered, it's easy.

Personally, I approach this problem by always making sure to put
the same sheets back on the same bad the same day as I took them
off. That way, I rarely have to fold sheets at all.

- Logan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 7:37 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <0tnch3horkok8853j3hcpqge7btd03qdhm@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> Curious if anyone here refuses to use fitted bed sheets
> and instead uses two flat sheets?
>
> Also.... can a person use a queen size flat sheet on a
> FULL bed as the bottom sheet so that it will have more
> material to tuck under the mattress?

Why not? Its your money so if you want to buy larger size linens then
your bed needs, then you should do just that.

> I HATE trying to fold and store fitted sheets and
> thinking abt going back to all flat sheets.... but I
> have a full bed only.... no queen or king.

I use both. Works for me.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: free search engine?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/db0014d235679823?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:45 pm
From: Logan Shaw

J. Davidson wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> news:JvvRi.35747$eY.6300@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>> J. Davidson wrote:

>>> Are there any search engines which are free anymore?

>> I never knew of any that were not free.

> The ones I am using lately may give some information such as name and state
> but you have to pay for the phone number and the rest of the address.

Apparently you have a specific type of search engine in mind but are
being coy about what exactly you want.

You could try specifying what sort of information you plan to supply to
the search engine and what sort of information you're hoping to get back.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Catalog Items at Cost and Below
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/03d6c4dd4e26740d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 6:53 pm
From: "Gary C."

BlueBroom.com is a web site that sells gifts at incredibly low
prices. Mostly catalog items. If you can't find a great deal here
then you....

==============================================================================
TOPIC: dishtv programmable remote (channel timer) for std receiver/tuner?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7f77cea4f7dff215?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 7:22 pm
From: patrick

Hello; The std tuner/receivers for the dsh tv system (model #311/322)
don't appear to have timer/channel programability function . In order
to use the vcr for recording, you have to lleave the receier to one
channel, set the vcr to that channel then program the vcr to record at
a particular time. There's no program for time and channel change.
Do any of the more intelligent universal remotes have the capability
to enter all the stuff re the channel and time to change then trip
the dishtv receiver to do the deed? That would keep the cost down a
bit as it would keep me from buying the dvr that would allow that in
addition to the monthly fee for the privelege of having a dvr! Thanks
Pat

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why is it the finest hotel in the world
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/da3c33089d27a883?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 11:00 pm
From: "Cheeky Bastard"

"Stella" <rajeshsharma7778@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192031562.836936.249070@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Why is it the finest hotel in the world
> http://hotel-burj-al-arab.blogspot.com/2006/12/best-hotel-in-world.html
>

Ever heard of stupid is as stupid ask?
Don't let this bother you so much as most likely you will never see it
anyway.
If you have to ask you can't afford and that is what keeps the price up and
most of us out.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why does olive oil & vinnegar (mixed) need to be refrigerated anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 11:05 pm
From: "Cheeky Bastard"

It's obvious you really don't care so why listen to others as you are not
anyhow.
Do as you wish with it. Do you think most care?
Maybe you have a dorm room fridge? <grin>
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nhpgqFibbq2U1@mid.individual.net...
> Daniel MacKay <daniel@bonmot.ca> wrote:
>
>>> They're pretty close to sterile in practice.
>
>> You're not listening.
>
> You in spades.
>
>> Either a container is sterile - that is, a can, or a jar with
>> an airtight seal, and has been "processed" at a certain
>> temperature for a certain number of minutes, or it is not.
>> There is no such thing as "pretty close in practice."
>
> You can keep asserting that till you are blue in the face if you like,
> changes nothing.
>
>> Dressing and mayonnaise containers in the grocery store are not. They
>> have cardboard seals, are in no way airtight, and have not been
>> "processed."
>
> And they are close enough to sterile for all practical purposes anyway.
>
>> They *can't* be processed - you can't heat mayonnaise.
>
> We aint talking about mayonnaise.
>
>> Conversely, if you argue that a plastic jar with a cardboard seal
>
> Its got a plastic top as well as the cardboard seal.
>
>> is sufficient to preserve food, you should put up some fruits and
>> vegetables that way and check back on them in a couple of weeks.
>
> Having fun thrashing that straw man are you child ?
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 11:08 pm
From: "Cheeky Bastard"

You asked and you got the answer but you now argue it. Please next time do
not post and just do as you are going to anyway.

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ni7a8Fi6iodU1@mid.individual.net...
> John Weiss <jrweiss@nospamattglobal.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>
>>>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>
>>>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>>>>>>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>
>>>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>
>>>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>
>>>> Not nearly...clean is a far cry from "sterile"
>
>>> They're pretty close to sterile in practice.
>
>> Nope.
>
> Yep.
>
>> Once the containers are opened, they are no longer sterile. After being
>> used many times and opened & closed repeatedly, they are no longer
>> sterile.
>
> And few bother to refrigerate olive oil and vinegar once they have
> been opened and the container doesnt say that you should either.
>
>> The container used for the mixture may be as clean or cleaner than the
>> bottles of oil & vinegar.
>
> Unlikely given that the container will have been washed
> in the home, and not new in the manufacturing plant.
>
>> FWIW, many restaurants keep salad dressings in unrefrigerated
>> containers. If you use them up in a reasonable time (a few days)
>> there is no need to refrigerate them.
>
> Irrelevant to the question that was asked.
>
>> OTOH, repeated shaking of the mixture will aerate it, and possibly
>> accelerate the oxidation of the olive oil, which will change its
>> taste and aroma. Refrigeration may help delay that oxidation.
>
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 11:11 pm
From: "Cheeky Bastard"

Goomba38? No worries not a real Italian anyway LOL

Besides we use the ovlive oil way before it is in question.

We also have known you can cook with it as long as you never hit the flash
point of the oil.

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ngjckFhuessU1@mid.individual.net...
> GreenieLeBrun <GreenieLeBrun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>
>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>>>
>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>>>>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>>>
>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>>>
>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>>
>> Sterility (from a microbiological view)is like virginity it either is
>> or it isn't no in between.
>
> Wrong with new containers for those components.
>

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: flush da toilet with rain-water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d09a42bdb27b1164?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:52 pm
From: rick++

Unfortunately this was banned during some 1980s California droughts
I lived it. Cities were afraid of disease getting into the system.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Offering a part-time job
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b5ef3177e20bbe83?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:59 pm
From: 469217064@163.com

I am seeking cooperator, part-time job and gaining much profits.
We are from China. And our business is internation trade by internet
for many years. Our products is best selling in Europe. And Our
products have Top quality.
Now we are seeking cooperators in Europe. If you do this business, you
will gain eur1000 to eur3000 per month.
We provide products and pay shipping cost. It is easy, and you do it
only by internet.
This is a opporunity. Please contact me if you have any question, we
can talking for detail.
MSN: mini_liang@hotmail.com
E-MAIL: ebayer33@yahoo.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:25 pm
From: "Don K"

"E Z Peaces" <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ff5m4t$j74$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Jeff wrote:
>
>>
>> Could be, but I think the start up surge is a small compared to the run time. I
>> remember when we discussed fluorescent starting surge that another urban myth of
>> leaving fluorescent lights on saved money was debunked.
>
> Ann Landers once settled the controversy by ruling that it's more economical to leave
> your lights on if you don't plan to be gone more than four hours. She said that's the
> final word on the subject.

And thus the feud with Dear Abbey started.

Don

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's red ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ab4eec5e0e4a531?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:31 pm
From: "Otto Bahn"

"HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote in

> > Do you spread the smegma all over your penis when you masturbate?
>
> Do you swallow your Daddy's smegma when you felate him? Smegma Boy.

Don't be stupid. What we're trying to ascertain is how one
gets smegma on their hands merely by taking a pee. I figure
you'd have to "work at it", IYKWIM, AITYD.

--oTTo--

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 3:42 pm
From: "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"

>> Do you swallow your Daddy's smegma when you felate him? Smegma Boy.

"Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote
> Don't be stupid.

I see, you spat it out afterward. Is that what your mommie taught you
Smegma Boy?

"Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote
> What we're trying to ascertain is how one gets smegma on their hands
> merely by taking a pee.

I guess you continue to coat your fingers with it because you haven't
figured it out yet.

Sad.. Sad.... Smegma Boy.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:35 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 17, 10:56 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:

>
> First they tried to foist the Metric System on us. Next there was a
> concerted effort to remove the symbol for cents from common usage. Later
> there was the "War on Christmas" (happy holidays, everyone!). Now it looks
> like the plain old decimal place is also going the way of the dodo, because
> I guess it's just too much trouble to bother with.

Don't forget nooses. You can't hang a skeleton from a tree for
Halloween without Al Sharpton calling you out.

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:36 pm
From: me@privacy.net

>> Also.... can a person use a queen size flat sheet
>> on a FULL bed as the bottom sheet so that it will
>> have more material to tuck under the mattress?
>
>Yep, thats what I do, buy oversized for that reason.

OK but do you use say a queen sheet (oversized) on
bottom ONLY? Sill use a regular size full sheet for the
top?

Oh by the way....wonder if something like this would
secure flat sheets on mattress?

http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Straps-Set-of-4/dp/B000BFWFJ8

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:38 pm
From: me@privacy.net

>> Curious if anyone here refuses to use fitted
>> bed sheets and instead uses two flat sheets?
>
>Yeah, I do, I gave up on fitted bottoms sheets because
>I couldnt find any that stay fitted to the mattress properly.

Off topic...... but what thread count and brand and
material sheets does everyone like?

I'm thinking of going high end...say 500 thread count.
Waste of money?

Also what abt sheets with a bit of polyester in them as
well as cotton? They last longer and wear better than
ALL cotton sheets?

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:45 pm
From: "Don K"

"Melissa" <nospam@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47166ce7$0$16463$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:0tnch3horkok8853j3hcpqge7btd03qdhm@4ax.com...
>>
>> I HATE trying to fold and store fitted sheets and
>> thinking abt going back to all flat sheets.... but I
>> have a full bed only.... no queen or king.
>
> Folding fitted sheets is no big deal. It's way easier than having to retuck
> a flat sheet in on a mattress all the time.
>
> Just fold the fitted sheet, tuck the corners into each other, fold again so
> all 4 corners end up tucked inside of one. Flatten it out, finish folding,
> and you're good to go.

I don't fold sheets by placing them down on anything, I fold in free-space.
I grab two corners in one hand, stretch out the other hand to locate the
mid-point, then use my chin to make the 2nd fold into quarters.

Fitted sheets fold lumpy. The key to a stress-free life is to not be a
perfectionist and just accept that's just the way things are.

Don

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:52 pm
From: "Don K"

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:p30dh3tr1d12d9v6l5eh8e67a58sccggh0@4ax.com...
>
> Off topic...... but what thread count and brand and
> material sheets does everyone like?
>
> I'm thinking of going high end...say 500 thread count.
> Waste of money?
>
> Also what abt sheets with a bit of polyester in them as
> well as cotton? They last longer and wear better than
> ALL cotton sheets?

I like flannel sheets.
I don't like sheets that feel cold when you first get into bed.

Don

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:56 pm
From: me@privacy.net

><me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:p30dh3tr1d12d9v6l5eh8e67a58sccggh0@4ax.com...
>>
>> Off topic...... but what thread count and brand and
>> material sheets does everyone like?
>>
>> I'm thinking of going high end...say 500 thread count.
>> Waste of money?
>>
>> Also what abt sheets with a bit of polyester in them as
>> well as cotton? They last longer and wear better than
>> ALL cotton sheets?
>
>I like flannel sheets.
>I don't like sheets that feel cold when you first get into bed.
>
>Don
>

Ok but what you use for the summer?

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 3:31 pm
From: "Don K"

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:681dh3dhfo66s2h6pmq0lp6ggb8j55no52@4ax.com...
> ><me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:p30dh3tr1d12d9v6l5eh8e67a58sccggh0@4ax.com...

>>I like flannel sheets.
>>I don't like sheets that feel cold when you first get into bed.
>>
>
> Ok but what you use for the summer?

Same thing.
The interior of my house doesn't get all that hot in summer.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 3:34 pm
From: nr

> Oh by the way....wonder if something like this would
> secure flat sheets on mattress?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Straps-Set-of-4/dp/B000BFWFJ8

I've been using similar straps for years. Very handy.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 4:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

>>> Also.... can a person use a queen size flat sheet
>>> on a FULL bed as the bottom sheet so that it will
>>> have more material to tuck under the mattress?

>> Yep, thats what I do, buy oversized for that reason.

> OK but do you use say a queen sheet (oversized) on bottom ONLY?

Nope.

> Sill use a regular size full sheet for the top?

Nope, the extra tuck in is useful for the top too.

> Oh by the way....wonder if something like
> this would secure flat sheets on mattress?

> http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Straps-Set-of-4/dp/B000BFWFJ8

It looks like they are intended for use on fitted sheets.

Not sure how well they would work on flat sheets, too much spare tucked
in sheet to be viable with those and no edge to apply them to either.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 4:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
>>> Curious if anyone here refuses to use fitted
>>> bed sheets and instead uses two flat sheets?
>>
>> Yeah, I do, I gave up on fitted bottoms sheets because
>> I couldnt find any that stay fitted to the mattress properly.

> Off topic...... but what thread count and brand
> and material sheets does everyone like?

I havent worked out that out yet, just found that the
previous ones didnt last very long and that you can see
thru the current latest with the light behind them at night.

> I'm thinking of going high end...say 500 thread count.
> Waste of money?

I doubt it.

> Also what abt sheets with a bit of polyester in them as
> well as cotton? They last longer and wear better than
> ALL cotton sheets?

Yep, poly always does have that advantage.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SMS to email and back gateway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/05164fc5bbf659c1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:39 pm
From: me@privacy.net

>> Does it work well?
>
>Not as well as a cellphone that allows you to email directly, particularly
>on the convenient support for email addresses in the phone book etc.

what I'm trying to do is get smart phone -like email
capabilities but not pay a big monthly data charge....
use sms charges as well

Id like to send myself emails.... reminders, info,
expenses etc.... send em to my yahoo email acct

Here in the USA I can get an unlimited sms service for
abt $5 a month extra..... vs data plan for smart phone
abt $30 month

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 4:32 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

>>> Does it work well?

>> Not as well as a cellphone that allows you to email directly,
>> particularly on the convenient support for email addresses
>> in the phone book etc.

> what I'm trying to do is get smart phone -like email
> capabilities but not pay a big monthly data charge....
> use sms charges as well

> Id like to send myself emails.... reminders, info,
> expenses etc.... send em to my yahoo email acct

The better cellphones have an independant reminder system.

And I find I need a pretty sophisticated reminder system
myself, particularly with the more unusual recurrences like
just week days and not weekend days, first monday in the
month every second month etc. I need something with the
power of Outlook on that and emails and sms doesnt have that.

Tho a few of the online reminder systems can do that with sms and email.

> Here in the USA I can get an unlimited sms service for abt $5
> a month extra..... vs data plan for smart phone abt $30 month

My data plan just involves payment for the data
I actually use, no fixed charge per month involved.

Same with sms too, a fixed low charge per sms tho it wouldnt be
that cheap if I used it for all reminders. I normally have 10-20 a day.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:45 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <47165ba9$0$32539$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-BDE3E1.20501716102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <47154f8c$0$15354$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> news:atropos-373F81.15084316102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <47150409$0$4995$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> >> > But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
> >> >> > (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and then
> >> >> > ignore it.
> >> >>
> >> >> They are the ones who make the laws.
> >> >
> >> > And they also have to abide by them.
> >>
> >> Not really.
> >
> > Yes really.
>
> If everyone abided by the law, you would not need laws.
> >
> >> >> They have the power to change the law
> >> >
> >> > And until they do, they have to abide by them.
> >> >
> >> >> They passed the fourteenth ammendment, then reversed
> >> >> themselves and invalidated the fourteenth ammendment.
> >> >
> >> > Really? I wasn't aware the 14th had been repealed. Which amendment
> >> > repealed it?
> >>
> >> Soory I meant the 18th and 21 st Amendment
> >
> > Note that until they passed the 21st Amendment, the government had to
> > abide by the restrictions of the 18th.
>
> And do you really think that every member of Congress, every member of their
> staff at the time, everyone working for the Government, including those who
> were in law enforcement abided by the law, when prohibition was the law of
> the land? If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Your logic is not our earth logic. When legislators break the law, they
get arrested just like anyone else. Does the name Larry Craig ring a
bell?

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:49 pm
From: "J. Davidson"

Are there any search engines which are free anymore?
Jackie

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:53 pm
From: George Grapman

J. Davidson wrote:
> Are there any search engines which are free anymore?
> Jackie
>
>
I never knew of any that were not free.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 4:45 pm
From: "J. Davidson"

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:JvvRi.35747$eY.6300@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> J. Davidson wrote:
> > Are there any search engines which are free anymore?
> > Jackie
> >
> >
> I never knew of any that were not free.

The ones I am using lately may give some information such as name and state
but you have to pay for the phone number and the rest of the address.
Jackie

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:57 pm
From: me@privacy.net

I was originally looking to buy a Dust Buster type
device but all the consumer ones have built in
rechargeable batteries....such that once the battery
dies you have to throw away the whole unit. Very
wasteful!!

I recently came across many power tool "systems" where
you buy the battery units separate and they can be
slipped on various hand tools such as drill, chop saw,
and hand vacs!

Curious which brand/model is the best value in terms of
light weight, stamina, etc?

Is Li-Ion better than say NiMH?

Any brands to consider such as Black and Decker new GPX
system? Milwaukee's?

I'm only buying the hand vac and battery system for
now..... but since I have no other power tools "might"
need the drill or saw at some point.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 4:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

> Is Li-Ion better than say NiMH?

Yes, most of the time except for very heavy load devices.

> Any brands to consider such as Black and Decker new GPX
> system? Milwaukee's?
>
> I'm only buying the hand vac and battery system for
> now..... but since I have no other power tools "might"
> need the drill or saw at some point.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Causes of Baldness
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7137bffc75729670?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 3:31 pm
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

Get a FREE DVD package on The Causes of Male Pattern Baldness and
Female Hair Loss. And, for a limited time only, if you schedule a
free consultation online you will receive a FREE 3-Day Getaway.

This free offer is intended for United States residents only.

--
The Best Freebies

All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 5:11 pm
From: Gordon

THE FREE iPOD is HERE!! Whoo! Whoo!

FedX delivered a package today from "The Fulfillment Center"
and I knew exactly what was in it. Inside the box, inside
a padded envelope, was a 4GB iPod Nano. And it's the new
wider model.

THere was also a rather diminutive getting started guide.
Needed my reading glasses to read it. IT's obvious which
generation they are marketing this to.

So if you happen to by riding Portland's Max, and see a
middle aged, slightly balding, slightly overweight, guy
listening to an iPod with a big grin... Well now you
know why.

==============================================================================

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group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:01 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nkhfpFhqe45U1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they
>>>>>>>>>> have now.
>
>>>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of
>>>>>>>>> illegals.
>
>>>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...",
>>>>>>>> it did not even mention NAFTA.
>
>>>>>>> Its a similar economic change.
>
>>>>>> Why is it "similar"?
>
>>>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.
>
>>>> Ageed
>
>>>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is
>>>>>>>> not intended to fix the problem), are you going to argue that it
>>>>>>>> won't "help"?
>
>>>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico,
>>>>>>> that wont have any effect on the number that still decide that their
>>>>>>> prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.
>
>>>> Agreed again, but it helps....
>
>>> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.
>
>>>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would not
>>>>>> otherwise have,
>
>>>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.
>
>>>> huh?
>
>>> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
>>> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.
>
>>>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this>
>>>>>> country illegally?
>
>>>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA
>>>>> still provides them with much worse living standards than moving to
>>>>> the US does.
>
>>>> so?
>
>>> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico wont
>>> actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing to move
>>> to the US, essentially because whatever is done in Mexico will STILL
>>> see them with much worse living standards in mexico than in the US.
>
>>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico
>>>> rather than enter this country illegally?
>
>>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.
>
>> then why aren't more of them here?
>
> Because the US makes it hard for mexicans to just move to the US.
>

that sure has worked hasn't it?

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:03 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nkhplFioqvhU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>>>>>>>> It works in Israel.
>
>>>>>>>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>
>>>>>>>>>> why son't it work?
>
>>>>>>>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.
>
>>>>>>>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United
>>>>>>>> States.
>
>>>>>>> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the
>>>>>>> Cubans.
>
>>>>>>>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States
>>>>>>>> over water?
>
>>>>>>> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have
>>>>>>> to.
>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>>>>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>
>>>>>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much
>>>>>>>>>> more difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.
>
>>>>>>>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>>>>>>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>>>>>>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.
>
>>>>>>>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?
>
>>>>>>> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.
>
>>>>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?
>
>>>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
>>>>>>> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
>>>>>>> much better in the US than where they are coming from.
>
>>>>>> Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their
>>>>>> birth to seek a better life somewhere else. The solution is to
>>>>>> have a government in their country that adopts the right policy,
>>>>>> that eliminates the causes.
>
>>>>> Pity you cant even point to any equivalent country with a
>>>>> birth rate that Mexico has that has ever managed to do that.
>
>>>> It is not the birthrate that is the problem,
>
>>> Corse it is.
>
>> No, it is the fact that they cannot earn a good living in Mexico.
>
> Yep, the birth rate is the reason they cant earn a good living in mexico.
>
>>>> it is the fact that their government has not adopted polices to help
>>>> these who live in their country to live a reasonably good life.
>
>>> Not even possible with the birth rate they have.
>
>>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high
>>> that has
>>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even
>>> possible.
>
>>>> If the birth rate is high, then they just have to adopt policies that
>>>> can accomodate that higher birth rate.
>
>>> No such animal.
>
>>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high
>>> that has
>>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even
>>> possible.
>
>>>>> Even eliminating the birth rate problem as china has done, STILL
>>>>> sees a situation where hordes of chinese would move to the US if
>>>>> they were allowed to, because the living standards are so much
>>>>> better in the US.
>
>>>> Which tells you that ultimately it depends on having the right politcy.
>
>>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high
>>> that has
>>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even
>>> possible.
>
>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2054.html
>
>> The countries on the list stand out. Bahamas, Belgium, Bermuda, and
>
> None of those has anything like US living standards except belgium,
> and it doesnt have anything like the birth rate that mexico does.
>
>

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:48 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Build the Fence!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S. soil, the law says they get to stay.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?

>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to stay here as foreign residents at a
>>>>>>>>>>> minimum.

>>>>>>>>>> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and those illegals who are in this
>>>>>>>>>> country already, "jumping ahead of the line"?

>>>>>>>>> It's part of a program President Kennedy or Johnson put in place for the bang up job they did in the Bay of
>>>>>>>>> Pigs.

>>>>>>>> No it isnt, it preceeded that.

>>>>>>> What preceded that?

>>>>>> That business about them being allowed to stay if
>>>>>> they made it to the US preceeded the Bay of Pigs.

>>> http://origin.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/americas/17289788.htm?source=rss&channel=miamiherald_americas

>> Irrelevant to what happened legally just after Castro took over.

> Huh?

What was being discussed was whether cubans who got to the
US were legally allowed to stay before the bay of pigs. They were.
That preceeded the bay of pigs, so cant have been due to the bay of pigs.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote

>>>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer
>>>>> to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?

>>>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>>>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>>>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

>>> Why is it necessary for them to enter illegally?

>> Because they wont be allowed in using the legal route.

> Too bad. That's no excuse to break the law & enter illegally.

But completely relevant to why its necessary for them to enter
illegally, because they wont be allowed in using the legal channels.

> *I'd* like to be to drive 120 miles an hour on I-80 (cross-country
> where it's empty), but I can't because we have laws. If I can't
> break the laws, why should "they" be allowed to break the law?
> If they're caught, send them back home, and hand them a Visa
> application so they can enter legally.

Separate matter entirely to why its necessary for them to
enter illegally when they wont be allowed to enter legally.

>>> This is what my Chinese friend did. This is what my Japanese friend did.

>> And vastly more got told that they dont qualify.

> FALSE.

NOPE.

> They're both living in suburban D.C. They are U.S. citizens now,

Irrelevant to how many tried to enter legally and got told that they couldnt come.

> because that's what happens when you follow the laws,

Plenty more got the other result, they were told that they couldnt come.

> rather than act like a criminal and try to enter illegally.

Something like 40M succeeded in entering illegally.

Thats actually a lot more than entered legally.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:57 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.

>>>>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.

>>>>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...",
>>>>>>>>> it did not even mention NAFTA.

>>>>>>>> Its a similar economic change.

>>>>>>> Why is it "similar"?

>>>>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.

>>>>> Ageed

>>>>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem
>>>>>>>>> (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you going to
>>>>>>>>> argue that it won't "help"?

>>>>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in
>>>>>>>> Mexico, that wont have any effect on the number that still
>>>>>>>> decide that their prospects are much better in the US than
>>>>>>>> back in Mexico.

>>>>> Agreed again, but it helps....

>>>> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.

>>>>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would
>>>>>>> not otherwise have,

>>>>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.

>>>>> huh?

>>>> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
>>>> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.

>>>>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this country illegally?

>>>>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA
>>>>>> still provides them with much worse living standards than moving
>>>>>> to the US does.

>>>>> so?

>>>> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico wont
>>>> actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing to move
>>>> to the US, essentially because whatever is done in Mexico will STILL see them with much worse living standards in
>>>> mexico than in the US.

>>>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in
>>>>> Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?

>>>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>>>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>>>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

>>> then why aren't more of them here?

>> Because the US makes it hard for mexicans to just move to the US.

> that sure has worked hasn't it?

Have the remotest concept of how many there would have been if any
south american that wanted to move to the US was free to do so ?

In spades with the rest of the world.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate

Completely useless on that living standards question.

Not one of those with a birth rate that mexico has
has anything like the living standards that the US has.

It isnt possible for any govt to produce the living standards
that the US has when they have a birth rate that Mexico has.

> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It works in Israel.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> why son't it work?
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the
>>>>>>>>> United States.
>>
>>>>>>>> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously
>>>>>>>> with the Cubans.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United
>>>>>>>>> States over water?
>>
>>>>>>>> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they
>>>>>>>> have to.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>>>>>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much
>>>>>>>>>>> more difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>>>>>>>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>>>>>>>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want
>>>>>>>>> to do?
>>
>>>>>>>> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.
>>
>>>>>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing
>>>>>>>>> defense?
>>
>>>>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
>>>>>>>> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
>>>>>>>> much better in the US than where they are coming from.
>>
>>>>>>> Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their
>>>>>>> birth to seek a better life somewhere else. The solution is to
>>>>>>> have a government in their country that adopts the right policy,
>>>>>>> that eliminates the causes.
>>
>>>>>> Pity you cant even point to any equivalent country with a
>>>>>> birth rate that Mexico has that has ever managed to do that.
>>
>>>>> It is not the birthrate that is the problem,
>>
>>>> Corse it is.
>>
>>> No, it is the fact that they cannot earn a good living in Mexico.
>>
>> Yep, the birth rate is the reason they cant earn a good living in
>> mexico.
>>>>> it is the fact that their government has not adopted polices to
>>>>> help these who live in their country to live a reasonably good
>>>>> life.
>>
>>>> Not even possible with the birth rate they have.
>>
>>>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that
>>>> high that has
>>>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even
>>>> possible.
>>
>>>>> If the birth rate is high, then they just have to adopt policies
>>>>> that can accomodate that higher birth rate.
>>
>>>> No such animal.
>>
>>>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that
>>>> high that has
>>>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even
>>>> possible.
>>
>>>>>> Even eliminating the birth rate problem as china has done, STILL
>>>>>> sees a situation where hordes of chinese would move to the US if
>>>>>> they were allowed to, because the living standards are so much
>>>>>> better in the US.
>>
>>>>> Which tells you that ultimately it depends on having the right
>>>>> politcy.
>>
>>>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that
>>>> high that has
>>>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even
>>>> possible.
>>
>>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2054.html
>>
>>> The countries on the list stand out. Bahamas, Belgium, Bermuda, and
>>
>> None of those has anything like US living standards except belgium,
>> and it doesnt have anything like the birth rate that mexico does.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote

>>>>>> But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
>>>>>> (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and
>>>>>> then ignore it.

>>>>> They are the ones who make the laws.

>>>> And they also have to abide by them.

>>> Not really.

>> Yes really.

> If everyone abided by the law, you would not need laws.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed there, the LAWMAKERS needing to abide by them.

>>>>> They have the power to change the law

>>>> And until they do, they have to abide by them.

>>>>> They passed the fourteenth ammendment, then reversed
>>>>> themselves and invalidated the fourteenth ammendment.

>>>> Really? I wasn't aware the 14th had been repealed. Which amendment repealed it?

>>> Soory I meant the 18th and 21 st Amendment

>> Note that until they passed the 21st Amendment, the government had to abide by the restrictions of the 18th.

> And do you really think that every member of Congress, every member of their staff at the time, everyone working for
> the Government, including those who were in law enforcement abided by the law, when prohibition was the law of the
> land?

Irrelevant to whether the GOVT needs to abide by the laws.

> If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:42 pm
From: David Johnston

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 04:21:39 -0700, SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:43:43 -0700, SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >Why is it necessary for them to enter illegally? Why can't they
>> >follow the process of filling-out an application, and getting a Visa?
>> >This is what my Chinese friend did. This is what my other Japanese
>> >friend did. I'm sure the Mexicans can do the same... just ask the
>> >U.S. embassy for the application. Be legal, not illegal.
>>
>> There's no way the United States would ever allow most of them to
>> immigrate. There are too many of them and the kind of work they do
>> isn't valued highly.
>
>
>
>Too bad. That's no excuse to break the law & enter illegally.

You didn't ask whether it was right. You asked why it was necessary.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:13 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Anyone know abt the sms to email gateways that will
allow you to use regular cell phone texting to send
someone an email?

I guess you send the "system" a text and it converts it
to email and sends it to the recipient....and vice
versa

Does it work well? Who do you use? etc

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:39 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

> Anyone know abt the sms to email gateways that will allow you
> to use regular cell phone texting to send someone an email?

Yes, they do exist.

> I guess you send the "system" a text and it converts it
> to email and sends it to the recipient....and vice versa

Yep.

> Does it work well?

Not as well as a cellphone that allows you to email directly, particularly
on the convenient support for email addresses in the phone book etc.

> Who do you use? etc

I use what the cellphone telco provides, tho since my cellphone
does allow me to send real email, I normally use that now.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:13 pm
From: "AcaiPlus2@gmail.com"

SUBJECT LINE: Residual Income Biz

Hi,

Here are the factors that make this such a powerful opportunity right
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So do you want to hear about this?
Or are you too busy with your other stuff to look?

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David Hall
QuadraIncome@gmail.com

http://www.dphall.ageluniverse.net

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:14 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Bill wrote:
> "OhioGuy" wrote in message
>> I see it all the time - signs saying "milk $250 a gallon", or "bananas
>> $49 a pound"...
>>
>
> I remember when I was in school (many moons ago!) and did not include the
> decimal, it would be marked wrong and I would be chastised! It was a big no
> no.
>
Me too. When I'm at the grocery store I like to take a few decimal
points in case I need them at home. The manager hasn't complained, so I
guess they're free like bags. Life in America would be simpler if the
government had stayed with pounds and shillings instead of foisting
their darned decimal money on us.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:16 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Curious if anyone here refuses to use fitted bed sheets
and instead uses two flat sheets?

Also.... can a person use a queen size flat sheet on a
FULL bed as the bottom sheet so that it will have more
material to tuck under the mattress?

I HATE trying to fold and store fitted sheets and
thinking abt going back to all flat sheets.... but I
have a full bed only.... no queen or king.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 2:12 pm
From: "Melissa"

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:0tnch3horkok8853j3hcpqge7btd03qdhm@4ax.com...
> Curious if anyone here refuses to use fitted bed sheets
> and instead uses two flat sheets?
>
> Also.... can a person use a queen size flat sheet on a
> FULL bed as the bottom sheet so that it will have more
> material to tuck under the mattress?
>
> I HATE trying to fold and store fitted sheets and
> thinking abt going back to all flat sheets.... but I
> have a full bed only.... no queen or king.

Folding fitted sheets is no big deal. It's way easier than having to retuck
a flat sheet in on a mattress all the time.

Just fold the fitted sheet, tuck the corners into each other, fold again so
all 4 corners end up tucked inside of one. Flatten it out, finish folding,
and you're good to go.

Melissa

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:32 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

> Curious if anyone here refuses to use fitted
> bed sheets and instead uses two flat sheets?

Yeah, I do, I gave up on fitted bottoms sheets because
I couldnt find any that stay fitted to the mattress properly.

> Also.... can a person use a queen size flat sheet
> on a FULL bed as the bottom sheet so that it will
> have more material to tuck under the mattress?

Yep, thats what I do, buy oversized for that reason.

> I HATE trying to fold and store fitted sheets

I dont care about that aspect.

> and thinking abt going back to all flat sheets....
> but I have a full bed only.... no queen or king.

A queen or king flat sheet will work fine, just not
quite as convenient to fit as a fitted sheet, but
you dont have the problem with it coming off either.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:31 pm
From: "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"

"Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote
> It would explain why some asshole would think taking
> a leak gets smegma on your hands,

Your hands... Smegma Boy.... Your hands.

Smegma, a transliteration of the Greek word ?????? for sebum, is a
combination of exfoliated (shed) epithelial cells, transudated skin oils,
and moisture, and can accumulate under the foreskin of males and within the
vulva of females. It has a characteristic strong odor. Smegma is common to
all mammals, male and female. Mycobacterium smegmatis is the characteristic
bacterium involved in smegma production, and is generally thought to form
smegma from epidermal secretions.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:33 pm
From: Adam Funk

On 2007-10-16, Otto Bahn wrote:

>> Ever seen "waterless urinals"?
>
> Do my lawn and woods count?

I suppose they do!

>> Or take less B2.
>
> Rock Lobster!

It wasn't a rock!

--
Allo, la gare d'Arboujah? Un de nos fous s'est échappé et a sauté
dans le train qui va arriver chez vous. Voici son signalement...

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:45 pm
From: "Otto Bahn"

"HangEveryRepubliKKKan" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote

> > It would explain why some asshole would think taking
> > a leak gets smegma on your hands,
>
> Your hands... Smegma Boy.... Your hands.
>
> Smegma, a transliteration of the Greek word ?????? for sebum, is a
> combination of exfoliated (shed) epithelial cells, transudated skin oils,
> and moisture, and can accumulate under the foreskin of males and within the
> vulva of females. It has a characteristic strong odor. Smegma is common to
> all mammals, male and female. Mycobacterium smegmatis is the characteristic
> bacterium involved in smegma production, and is generally thought to form
> smegma from epidermal secretions.

Do you spread the smegma all over your penis when you masturbate?

--oTTo--

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:33 pm
From: "HangEveryRepubliKKKan"

"Otto Bahn" <ei@eio.com> wrote
> Do you spread the smegma all over your penis when you masturbate?

Do you swallow your Daddy's smegma when you felate him? Smegma Boy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Halloween has nothing to do with the dead anymore
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cc738ec98b01cd5d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:47 pm
From: "Governessjoy@aol.com"

I believe that the spirit of Halloween has nothing to do with the
dead. I think it is a holiday for the living to enjoy especially the
kids. Kids to just love this Holiday for the candy and the costumes.
So I think people can continue to celebrate halloween because of its
feel good aspect. I do not think it's dark origin has much effect on
it. I think the good and pure spirits of the children has made it
into a very good holiday.

Do you think that we should abstain from Halloween activities because
of its origin?

GovernessJoy
http://123kidsoftheworld.blogspot.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 12:46 pm
From: "Governessjoy@aol.com"

Do you think that we should abstain from Halloween activities because
of its origin?

GovernessJoy
http://123kidsoftheworld.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The future of green hotel
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8116deeecc81be14?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:36 pm
From: "youryong@gmail.com"

Dear newsgroup members of misc.consumers.frugal-living,

I am conducting a research project to better understand customers'
perception toward environmentally friendly hotels. This study will
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Your response is vital to the success of this research as well as to
the improvement of environment programs. Please take about 15
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Your participation is strictly voluntary. There are no known risks
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If you agree to participate in this survey, please click on the link
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http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=4jVX2NFG0eRuB9eG6G3KRg_3d_3d
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rights, please contact to Dr. Sue Jacobs, IRB Chair, 219 Cordell
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Thank you for your valuable time and cooperation.

Please click on the link below to get started

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=4jVX2NFG0eRuB9eG6G3KRg_3d_3d

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210 HESW
School of Hotel and Restaurant Administration
Oklahoma State University
Stillwater, OK 74078Phone: (405) 744-6713E-mail:
yongjoong.kim@ okstate.edu

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale prada shoes,gucci shoes,4us shoes,desuarel2 shoes,air max
shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a148f5c21f3a2249?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:44 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Prada Shoes, Prada Sneakers,man prada shoes, man prada sneakers ...from
www.nikekickcoo.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3cc9770ce02b0ef4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:44 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 1:52 pm
From: 3932542@163.com

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Wednesday, October 17, 2007

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