http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Better think twice about supporting M$ / Windows - 12 messages, 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/91b29b33b75bb0d0?hl=en
* The medieval Nazis sailed the wooden ship, to land in distant countries to
evolve and spread evil, and to kill those whose land they took. - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/48aa9d4979687981?hl=en
* Usenet being phased out - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/88e9e410905fb851?hl=en
* Prof. predicts USA collapse in 2010 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b7cab264f5cefe0f?hl=en
* AP: Obama birth/school records found in Jakarta - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a9dcbec05844fdda?hl=en
* Save $100 per week on groceries - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52e7fba03a3ed2df?hl=en
* Has Anyone Tried L.E.D. Lightbulbs For Their Home? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/804d0f27da78667a?hl=en
* Economy is tough - help yourself by saving $100 per week on groceries, learn
my secret - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fcb8073256d0461a?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Better think twice about supporting M$ / Windows
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/91b29b33b75bb0d0?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 12:23 pm
From: Seerialmom
On Dec 30, 12:16 pm, "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote:
> > I think its just going to be an option. No way are pc mfgs going to
> > cancel pc sales.
>
> Not to mention, most hardware enthusiasts roll their own, anyway. And linux
> is not for sale at any price. -Dave
That's not Linux I see on the shelves at Fry's or Best Buy?? Or is it
not really Linux if it has another name like Red Hat or Ubuntu?
== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 12:40 pm
From: "Dave"
"Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47d47b8d-e9ea-4a41-9832-82f95b2e77e7@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 30, 12:16 pm, "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote:
> > I think its just going to be an option. No way are pc mfgs going to
> > cancel pc sales.
>
> Not to mention, most hardware enthusiasts roll their own, anyway. And
> linux
> is not for sale at any price. -Dave
>That's not Linux I see on the shelves at Fry's or Best Buy?? Or is it
>not really Linux if it has another name like Red Hat or Ubuntu?
You can pay a premium price for a certain linux distro if you want official
install media, installation manual / user guide, premium support, etc.
But when I said that linux is not for sale at any price, what I meant
was...no fricking way would Microsoft ever make significant profit off of
this hardware/software pay per use scheme, as long as there is linux in the
world. And there is no chance that Microsoft would ever own linux. At
best, Microsoft could buy a "red hat" (fedora) or a Suse or something. But
that would just make other non-Microsoft affiliated distros of linux more
popular. Microsoft will never own linux.
And before someone screams "but linux will never replace Windows!!!!"
Right now, many distros of linux are not only faster and more stable than
any version of windows, but they are also easier (MUCH!) and faster to
install, and easier to use, than windows. The only real advantage windows
has right now is market share. But if Microsoft pushes this pay per use
scheme? That will change QUICK.
There are many people who will put up with Microsoft products just because
they (the microsoft products) are popular and not too evil. I myself run
Vista on one of my systems, and I like it. But pay per use would push
Microsoft over the edge from mildly evil to (Grab the shotgun Edna!). We'd
likely see a mass migration where linux would gain at least 80% market share
with most of the rest going to whatever Apple OS variant is most
ecent. -Dave
== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 1:27 pm
From: Tom
Dave wrote:
>
> "Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:47d47b8d-e9ea-4a41-9832-82f95b2e77e7@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 30, 12:16 pm, "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote:
>> > I think its just going to be an option. No way are pc mfgs going to
>> > cancel pc sales.
>>
>> Not to mention, most hardware enthusiasts roll their own, anyway. And
>> linux
>> is not for sale at any price. -Dave
>
>> That's not Linux I see on the shelves at Fry's or Best Buy?? Or is it
>> not really Linux if it has another name like Red Hat or Ubuntu?
>
> You can pay a premium price for a certain linux distro if you want
> official install media, installation manual / user guide, premium
> support, etc.
>
> But when I said that linux is not for sale at any price, what I meant
> was...no fricking way would Microsoft ever make significant profit off
> of this hardware/software pay per use scheme, as long as there is linux
> in the world. And there is no chance that Microsoft would ever own
> linux. At best, Microsoft could buy a "red hat" (fedora) or a Suse or
> something. But that would just make other non-Microsoft affiliated
> distros of linux more popular. Microsoft will never own linux.
>
> And before someone screams "but linux will never replace Windows!!!!"
>
> Right now, many distros of linux are not only faster and more stable
> than any version of windows, but they are also easier (MUCH!) and faster
> to install, and easier to use, than windows. The only real advantage
> windows has right now is market share. But if Microsoft pushes this pay
> per use scheme? That will change QUICK.
And:
- Games (though ATI releasing 3D specs today is a step in the right
direction)
- MS Office (OpenOffice is fine for me, and probably fine for most
people, but it supposedly isn't as featureful as MS
Office)
- Photoshop (GIMP supposedly isn't as good)
This seems off-topic for the newsgroups we're in, however.
--
Tom
== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 1:43 pm
From: "Bill"
"Dave" <noway1@nohow2.not> wrote in message
news:gje100$86d$1@news.motzarella.org...
>
> "Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:47d47b8d-e9ea-4a41-9832-82f95b2e77e7@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 30, 12:16 pm, "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote:
> > > I think its just going to be an option. No way are pc mfgs going to
> > > cancel pc sales.
> >
> > Not to mention, most hardware enthusiasts roll their own, anyway. And
> > linux
> > is not for sale at any price. -Dave
>
> >That's not Linux I see on the shelves at Fry's or Best Buy?? Or is it
> >not really Linux if it has another name like Red Hat or Ubuntu?
>
> You can pay a premium price for a certain linux distro if you want official
> install media, installation manual / user guide, premium support, etc.
>
> But when I said that linux is not for sale at any price, what I meant
> was...no fricking way would Microsoft ever make significant profit off of
> this hardware/software pay per use scheme, as long as there is linux in the
> world. And there is no chance that Microsoft would ever own linux. At
> best, Microsoft could buy a "red hat" (fedora) or a Suse or something. But
> that would just make other non-Microsoft affiliated distros of linux more
> popular. Microsoft will never own linux.
>
> And before someone screams "but linux will never replace Windows!!!!"
>
> Right now, many distros of linux are not only faster and more stable than
> any version of windows, but they are also easier (MUCH!) and faster to
> install, and easier to use, than windows. The only real advantage windows
> has right now is market share. But if Microsoft pushes this pay per use
> scheme? That will change QUICK.
>
> There are many people who will put up with Microsoft products just because
> they (the microsoft products) are popular and not too evil. I myself run
> Vista on one of my systems, and I like it. But pay per use would push
> Microsoft over the edge from mildly evil to (Grab the shotgun Edna!). We'd
> likely see a mass migration where linux would gain at least 80% market share
> with most of the rest going to whatever Apple OS variant is most
> ecent. -Dave
>
Amen!
To avoid shooting themselves (and others) in the foot,
developers might want to think twice about using Windows as
a development platform. Instead, consider using Linux.
It's much more cost effective. :-)
In this economy, management / everyone need to spend wisely.
Dumping M$ / Windows and going with Linux seems
like a wise choice for corporations / everyone.
Do not wait until you see the coffin before crying.
Pass it on ...
== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 2:34 pm
From: "Dave"
>
> Amen!
>
> To avoid shooting themselves (and others) in the foot,
> developers might want to think twice about using Windows as
> a development platform. Instead, consider using Linux.
> It's much more cost effective. :-)
>
> In this economy, management / everyone need to spend wisely.
> Dumping M$ / Windows and going with Linux seems
> like a wise choice for corporations / everyone.
>
> Do not wait until you see the coffin before crying.
>
> Pass it on ...
>
>
Last I checked, most businesses were running linux on their servers already.
It's only a matter of time until the client machines start running linux.
At that point, most of the HOME computers (not used for business) will start
converting to linux. -Dave
== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 2:43 pm
From: Stray Dog
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008, Seerialmom wrote:
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:23:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.development.device.drivers, misc.invest.stocks,
> misc.consumers.frugal-living
> Subject: Re: Better think twice about supporting M$ / Windows
>
> On Dec 30, 12:16 pm, "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote:
>>> I think its just going to be an option. No way are pc mfgs going to
>>> cancel pc sales.
>>
>> Not to mention, most hardware enthusiasts roll their own, anyway. And linux
>> is not for sale at any price. -Dave
>
> That's not Linux I see on the shelves at Fry's or Best Buy?? Or is it
> not really Linux if it has another name like Red Hat or Ubuntu?
If it says Linux, then it should be some "distribution" (i.e. under Red
Hat or Ubuntu or any of the other "distribution" names). I have no idea
what the guy means by not for sale at any price. If you care to dig around
and learn how to do it and have high speed access, you can get a copy for
free.
The problems with Linux (I spent a few years, a few years ago, looking
hard at Linux and came back to windows 98 second edition for 99% of my
work plus I refused to upgrade my software for two reasons: i) I could do
everything I needed to do with what I had, and ii) I refuse to help bill
gates get even richer) is that you need to know more than you think to
"take care of it". The advantage of Windows is that it is as "plug and
play" as any OS can be and Apple's OS-X is not as immune to hacks as they
would like you to think (just google on "hack os-x" for 30,000 hits).
And, by the way, OS-X is basically BSD, another unix clone like Linux, and
you can get BSD cheap or free, too, but you also need to be a little geeky
to know what you are doing.
But, in the end, there is probably more software--easily installable and
uninstallable--for Windows than anything else.
The big insult with the new Windows (i.e. all late versions) is that they
do not give you an "install disk" so you can re-install your OS if some
hacker messes up your hard drive. It is critical that you get backup
software, and backup your OS before you put it on the internet (before the
spyware, rootkits, viruses, and other malicious code [coming in via java,
javascript, etc] get on the box and mess you up). So, if you don't have a
backup (and you have to be brave to try this), you end up taking your
thing back to the store and spend maybe couple hundred bucks having THEM
re-install the OS. And, you might call up a few repair stores and ask
about this before you plunk down your money. I'm reading and hearing about
people who --when their box starts behaving slow and erratic--just throw
it away and buy a new box rather than nuke their hard drive and
re-install.
Another big insult with Microsoft is the product activation so that you
have to contact them and get them to let you re-activate your software and
its up to their pleasure to grant that or not. This part makes me think
"go Linux" but as long as all the software I have now (Windows 98 second
edition) works fine, I'm going to stay with it and not just to save money,
but all the other agravation.
Finding old versions of Windows is a pain, but might be possible on eBay,
etc., and you'd better ask about the license that comes with the original
disks. Of course, if you get a bootleg copy I suppose you also have the
priviledge of re-installing without problems but just make sure you get
that product code, which is often somewhere in the documentation that
almost everyone throws away, thus making the disks useless. Microsoft
pulled every trick it could to guarantee as much as possible to itself
continued profits that come out of your wallet.
I'm not sure where the world is going to be in 10-20 years, but THEY will
get you to part with your money if they can.
== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 3:10 pm
From: "Adam"
"Stray Dog" <sdog2008@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0812302224150.11906@sdf.lonestar.org...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008, Seerialmom wrote:
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:23:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.development.device.drivers, misc.invest.stocks,
> misc.consumers.frugal-living
> Subject: Re: Better think twice about supporting M$ / Windows
>
> On Dec 30, 12:16 pm, "Dave" <now...@nohow2.not> wrote:
>>> I think its just going to be an option. No way are pc mfgs going to
>>> cancel pc sales.
>>
>> Not to mention, most hardware enthusiasts roll their own, anyway. And linux
>> is not for sale at any price. -Dave
>
> That's not Linux I see on the shelves at Fry's or Best Buy?? Or is it
> not really Linux if it has another name like Red Hat or Ubuntu?
If it says Linux, then it should be some "distribution" (i.e. under Red
Hat or Ubuntu or any of the other "distribution" names). I have no idea
what the guy means by not for sale at any price. If you care to dig around
and learn how to do it and have high speed access, you can get a copy for
free.
The problems with Linux (I spent a few years, a few years ago, looking
hard at Linux and came back to windows 98 second edition for 99% of my
work plus I refused to upgrade my software for two reasons: i) I could do
everything I needed to do with what I had, and ii) I refuse to help bill
gates get even richer) is that you need to know more than you think to
"take care of it". The advantage of Windows is that it is as "plug and
play" as any OS can be and Apple's OS-X is not as immune to hacks as they
would like you to think (just google on "hack os-x" for 30,000 hits).
And, by the way, OS-X is basically BSD, another unix clone like Linux, and
you can get BSD cheap or free, too, but you also need to be a little geeky
to know what you are doing.
But, in the end, there is probably more software--easily installable and
uninstallable--for Windows than anything else.
The big insult with the new Windows (i.e. all late versions) is that they
do not give you an "install disk" so you can re-install your OS if some
hacker messes up your hard drive. It is critical that you get backup
software, and backup your OS before you put it on the internet (before the
spyware, rootkits, viruses, and other malicious code [coming in via java,
javascript, etc] get on the box and mess you up). So, if you don't have a
backup (and you have to be brave to try this), you end up taking your
thing back to the store and spend maybe couple hundred bucks having THEM
re-install the OS. And, you might call up a few repair stores and ask
about this before you plunk down your money. I'm reading and hearing about
people who --when their box starts behaving slow and erratic--just throw
it away and buy a new box rather than nuke their hard drive and
re-install.
Another big insult with Microsoft is the product activation so that you
have to contact them and get them to let you re-activate your software and
its up to their pleasure to grant that or not. This part makes me think
"go Linux" but as long as all the software I have now (Windows 98 second
edition) works fine, I'm going to stay with it and not just to save money,
but all the other agravation.
Finding old versions of Windows is a pain, but might be possible on eBay,
etc., and you'd better ask about the license that comes with the original
disks. Of course, if you get a bootleg copy I suppose you also have the
priviledge of re-installing without problems but just make sure you get
that product code, which is often somewhere in the documentation that
almost everyone throws away, thus making the disks useless. Microsoft
pulled every trick it could to guarantee as much as possible to itself
continued profits that come out of your wallet.
I'm not sure where the world is going to be in 10-20 years, but THEY will
get you to part with your money if they can.
=========================================================
Absolutely! Of course, Bill Gates wants your money.
Bill Gates even dared to go on television (in this economy) to
tell people that they should still donate (to his foundation).
And worse, Bill Gates wants to screw Americans too ...
Bill Gates makes the (bogus) case for more (cheap) foreign labor
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070226-8924.html
Shame on Bill Gates!
That guy "um...er...uh"s a lot but he sure has nerves. :-)
== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 3:16 pm
From: Tom
Stray Dog wrote:
> The problems with Linux (I spent a few years, a few years ago, looking
> hard at Linux and came back to windows 98 second edition for 99% of my
> work plus I refused to upgrade my software for two reasons: i) I could
> do everything I needed to do with what I had, and ii) I refuse to help
> bill gates get even richer)
In all fairness to the guy, he seems to be doing good things in terms of
charity through The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
> The advantage of Windows is that it is as "plug and play" as any OS can
> be
That's not true. Windows isn't as "plug and play" as any OS can be. They
don't come with 3D drivers, wireless drivers, printer drivers, etc.
Okay, they come with some of those, but not as much as an OS could. A
problem is that many manufacturers wouldn't allow them to distribute
their drivers with, say, Windows XP. Neither would they allow, say,
Ubuntu to distribute their drivers.
Fortunately, however, there are hundreds, if not thousands of drivers in
the Linux kernel and many more in other free software projects.
Here is a Linux developer dispelling various myths[0].
I suggest you try the latest Ubuntu. I suspect you'd be suprised at its
ability to "plug and play": printers, sound cards, graphics, USB hard
drives, etc. are all really good now.
Unless you have Intel graphics you won't automatically get graphics
drivers which can handle 3D, though you will be notified that non-free
3D graphics exist and they can be installed in a few clicks.
Today ATI released code which will help produce a fully open sourced 3D
driver for ATI cards, which will supposedly be available in a few
months. Documentation will supposedly be released in a month, which will
help the process.
> But, in the end, there is probably more software--easily installable and
> uninstallable--for Windows than anything else.
I don't believe that's true. Modern package managers (such as Ubuntu's
Synaptic) make software management incredibly easy. It will download and
install software (of which 15000+ pieces are available) which is almost
guaranteed to work on your system with the click of a button. You can
then uninstall it with the click of a button.
Note how this is different from having to search Google for a piece of
software, then download it (maybe after having to register for it, or
having to agree to a long and questionable EULA), then install it. Get
ready for "next, next, next, I agree, next". Yawn. Okay, let's try the
software.
Now say you dislike the software for whatever reason, let's uninstall
it. Add/Remove Programs. Let's hope it's in here (I've used software
which didn't put itself in that list). Now let's remove it. "Please tell
us why you didn't like the software *opens window*" Piss off, I just
want to uninstall you. Leave me alone.
Oh, and Ubuntu's package manager updates software without which you
would probably be more likely to have insecure and/or buggy software on
your computer. Some Windows-based programs will automatically update but
this is neither as elegant or universal.
[Note: I've only used Windows XP, 2000 and 98 a lot. Vista may have
solved some of these problems.]
> Another big insult with Microsoft is the product activation so that you
> have to contact them and get them to let you re-activate your software
> and its up to their pleasure to grant that or not. This part makes me
> think "go Linux" but as long as all the software I have now (Windows 98
> second edition) works fine, I'm going to stay with it and not just to
> save money, but all the other agravation.
Windows 98 no longer receives security updates, so I'd suggest not using
that.
I believe if you tried a Linux distribution again (I suggest Ubuntu,
typically) that you'd be surprised at the progress that has been made.
Living without package managers, which are full of software which you
know is "nice" (no activations, freely available, open source and hence
Linux geeks are able to fix problems which they do often) is painful.
[0] http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html
--
Tom
== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 4:39 pm
From: The Real Bev
Bill wrote:
> In this economy, management / everyone need to spend wisely.
> Dumping M$ / Windows and going with Linux seems
> like a wise choice for corporations / everyone.
>
> Do not wait until you see the coffin before crying.
>
> Pass it on ...
Who else here is in the choir?
--
Cheers, Bev (Happy Linux User #85683, Slackware 12.1)
============================================================
"To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
violation of the Voting Rights Act." -- Ann Coulter
== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 4:58 pm
From: "Tomes"
"Dave" ...
> >
>> Amen!
>> To avoid shooting themselves (and others) in the foot,
>> developers might want to think twice about using Windows as
>> a development platform. Instead, consider using Linux.
>> It's much more cost effective. :-)
>>
>> In this economy, management / everyone need to spend wisely.
>> Dumping M$ / Windows and going with Linux seems
>> like a wise choice for corporations / everyone.
>>
>> Do not wait until you see the coffin before crying.
>> Pass it on ...
>>
> Last I checked, most businesses were running linux on their servers
> already. It's only a matter of time until the client machines start
> running linux. At that point, most of the HOME computers (not used for
> business) will start converting to linux. -Dave
It would be nice, but I cannot hold my breath waiting for that fateful day.
I believe that most folks use Windows at home because they were trained on
it at work and/or it just came on their systems automatically. That is a
huge paradigm to overcome; tons of inertia. While Linux might be running
the server, Windows is on the machine that is looking at the user. To get
enough corporations to dump Windows and retrain all their employees [at
significant expense] on another OS in order to have enough momentum to get
this going will be a huge and unlikely task, IMO.
Tomes
== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 5:31 pm
From: John Galt
Tomes wrote:
> "Dave" ...
>> >
>>> Amen!
>>> To avoid shooting themselves (and others) in the foot,
>>> developers might want to think twice about using Windows as
>>> a development platform. Instead, consider using Linux.
>>> It's much more cost effective. :-)
>>>
>>> In this economy, management / everyone need to spend wisely.
>>> Dumping M$ / Windows and going with Linux seems
>>> like a wise choice for corporations / everyone.
>>>
>>> Do not wait until you see the coffin before crying.
>>> Pass it on ...
>>>
>> Last I checked, most businesses were running linux on their servers
>> already. It's only a matter of time until the client machines start
>> running linux. At that point, most of the HOME computers (not used for
>> business) will start converting to linux. -Dave
> It would be nice, but I cannot hold my breath waiting for that fateful
> day. I believe that most folks use Windows at home because they were
> trained on it at work and/or it just came on their systems
> automatically. That is a huge paradigm to overcome; tons of inertia.
> While Linux might be running the server, Windows is on the machine that
> is looking at the user. To get enough corporations to dump Windows and
> retrain all their employees [at significant expense] on another OS in
> order to have enough momentum to get this going will be a huge and
> unlikely task, IMO.
> Tomes
Well, it's a task that nobody wants to budget for. In reality, 99% of
all computer users in a business use nothing but (a) the simplest 10% of
Office, and (b) application clients that run in a browser.
This is simply fear of the unknown holding people back. An hour of
familiarity training with Linux and its business as usual.
JG
== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 5:37 pm
From: Marsha
John Galt wrote:
> Well, it's a task that nobody wants to budget for. In reality, 99% of
> all computer users in a business use nothing but (a) the simplest 10% of
> Office, and (b) application clients that run in a browser.
>
> This is simply fear of the unknown holding people back. An hour of
> familiarity training with Linux and its business as usual.
>
> JG
>
People do not like to leave their comfort zone, although that's not a
wise choice. Who Moved My Cheese is a great read.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The medieval Nazis sailed the wooden ship, to land in distant countries
to evolve and spread evil, and to kill those whose land they took.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/48aa9d4979687981?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 1:41 pm
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com
On Dec 30, 1:46 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
Like the infamous pitcher said after stealing $3 million from Peet
Packing company's pension fund, "Them little people were not doing
anything with it anyway."
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Usenet being phased out
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/88e9e410905fb851?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 8:25 am
From: "Strider"
"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8e47180-3a59-4b67-9654-aa8fa80d9ed1@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
> groups.google.com
>
> It has some shortcomings, but is usable and free.
I recently found "teranews.com". If you just do text groups their free
service is great. Just a one-time $3.95 setup fee. They also have monthly
rates for high-intensity users. Totally compatible with Windows Mail and
Outlook Express.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Prof. predicts USA collapse in 2010
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b7cab264f5cefe0f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 2:32 pm
From: RichA
"Ruud66" <ruut66@gmail.com> wrote in
news:495a43cc$0$30615$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl:
>
> <hpope@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:7b1bef32-8c87-4542-a554-e55c328fc365@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com.
> ..
>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
>>
>> Mass immigration, economic decay, social chaos, to lead way downward.
>
> Dear god what a moron. The east of the US will go to the EU? What
> planet is he from. The EU is still strong at the moment despite
> countries like Romania and Poland who got on board. The main issue
> would be that Europe derives its strength from it's high level of
> secundary education and staunch adherence to regulation.
The U.S. will have to go downhill a LONG way before its people's standard
of living is as bad as that in Europe. 1/2 the average wage rate and 2x
the prices for common goods. Who in their right minds wants that?
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TOPIC: AP: Obama birth/school records found in Jakarta
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a9dcbec05844fdda?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 4:19 pm
From: Bryan Olson
Marsha wrote:
> Bryan Olson wrote:
>> JonL wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> In the litigation business, one quickly learns that if somebody has a
>>> document that will be good for them, they can't wait to give it to you.
>>
>> Been there; done that.
>>
>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
>>
>
> Didn't Obama receive funds from Annenburg at one time?
Either way, it has nothing to do with his birth certificate. Someone
brought up the documentation. There it is.
--
--Bryan
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 4:54 pm
From: Marsha
Bryan Olson wrote:
> Marsha wrote:
>> Bryan Olson wrote:
>>> JonL wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>> In the litigation business, one quickly learns that if somebody has
>>>> a document that will be good for them, they can't wait to give it to
>>>> you.
>>>
>>> Been there; done that.
>>>
>>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
>>>
>>
>> Didn't Obama receive funds from Annenburg at one time?
>
> Either way, it has nothing to do with his birth certificate. Someone
> brought up the documentation. There it is.
>
I don't believe that's what his detractors are looking for - he's not
producing the document he should be producing, for some odd reason.
Marsha
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 5:36 pm
From: Dennis
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:19:43 -0800, Bryan Olson
<fakeaddress@nowhere.org> wrote:
>Marsha wrote:
>> Bryan Olson wrote:
>>> JonL wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>> In the litigation business, one quickly learns that if somebody has a
>>>> document that will be good for them, they can't wait to give it to you.
>>>
>>> Been there; done that.
>>>
>>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
>>>
>>
>> Didn't Obama receive funds from Annenburg at one time?
>
>Either way, it has nothing to do with his birth certificate. Someone
>brought up the documentation. There it is.
Really? Then looking at the document posted, maybe you can tell me
which hospital he was born at and who the attending physician was.
The official long form birth certificate should have that information.
Mine does.
Dennis (evil)
--
An inherent weakness of a pure democracy is that half
the voters are below average intelligence.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 5:44 pm
From: "leonard78sp@primus.ca"
On 12/30/08 7:19 PM, in article AUy6l.9164$W06.4474@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com,
"Bryan Olson" <fakeaddress@nowhere.org> wrote:
>> Bryan Olson wrote:
>>> JonL wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>> In the litigation business, one quickly learns that if somebody has a
>>>> document that will be good for them, they can't wait to give it to you.
>>>
>>> Been there; done that.
>>>
>>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
>
> Either way, it has nothing to do with his birth certificate. Someone
> brought up the documentation. There it is.
** Coming from factcheck suggests that what
looks official but has NO SEAL, may well
be a photoshop reproduction of his sister's
birth certificate.
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 6:28 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:36:52 -0800, Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:19:43 -0800, Bryan Olson
><fakeaddress@nowhere.org> wrote:
>
>>Marsha wrote:
>>> Bryan Olson wrote:
>>>> JonL wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> In the litigation business, one quickly learns that if somebody has a
>>>>> document that will be good for them, they can't wait to give it to you.
>>>>
>>>> Been there; done that.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Didn't Obama receive funds from Annenburg at one time?
>>
>>Either way, it has nothing to do with his birth certificate. Someone
>>brought up the documentation. There it is.
>
>Really? Then looking at the document posted, maybe you can tell me
>which hospital he was born at and who the attending physician was.
>The official long form birth certificate should have that information.
>Mine does.
>
Might depend on locale. I just got a couple copies of mine when I was
in city hall. Had a need and couldn't find my "original" is.
I was surprised when I asked the guy how long it would take and he
said "about 30 seconds." They came out a printer, from computer data.
No mother/father/hospital. Just my name, county, DOB and date filed.
Entirely "official." Embossed special paper.
My "original" which I got maybe 40 years ago, was a fiche print. I
doubt there was any paper original left, but only a fiche copy. I was
born in '47, Chicago, Cook County, IL.
I do remember that my "original" has my mom & dad's name and address
and the hospital. I'm pretty sure there was no attending physician's
name, and there were no SSN's.
Whether that extra info is still held by the county I don't know.
Obama was born in '61 and the paper BC's may well have gone right to
fiche.
Don't know, don't really care.
Carry on.
--Vic
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 6:43 pm
From: Marsha
Vic Smith wrote:
> Might depend on locale. I just got a couple copies of mine when I was
> in city hall. Had a need and couldn't find my "original" is.
> I was surprised when I asked the guy how long it would take and he
> said "about 30 seconds." They came out a printer, from computer data.
> No mother/father/hospital. Just my name, county, DOB and date filed.
> Entirely "official." Embossed special paper.
> My "original" which I got maybe 40 years ago, was a fiche print. I
> doubt there was any paper original left, but only a fiche copy. I was
> born in '47, Chicago, Cook County, IL.
> I do remember that my "original" has my mom & dad's name and address
> and the hospital. I'm pretty sure there was no attending physician's
> name, and there were no SSN's.
> Whether that extra info is still held by the county I don't know.
> Obama was born in '61 and the paper BC's may well have gone right to
> fiche.
> --Vic
My brother was born in 1948 in Ohio. The certified copy from Columbus
would not suffice for a passport. He could not get a passport without
the original that showed mother and father's address, hospital, and
physician. We went through hell trying to get his passport. I expect
nothing less from the next POTUS.
Marsha/Ohio
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TOPIC: Save $100 per week on groceries
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52e7fba03a3ed2df?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 4:26 pm
From: Patricia Martin Steward
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:35:15 -0500, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>Patricia Martin Steward wrote:
>>
>> And don't leave spammers' URLs in replies, please.
>
>No problem. Would you please leave your sig. line off of future
>postings, please?
Erm... no. But thanks for being so polite about it.
--
"This is our moment. This is our time - to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids;
to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental
truth - that out of many, we are one; that while we breathe, we hope, and where we are met with cynicism, and doubt,
and those who tell us that we can't, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people:
Yes We Can." President-elect Barack Obama, November, 4, 2008
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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TOPIC: Has Anyone Tried L.E.D. Lightbulbs For Their Home?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/804d0f27da78667a?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 4:49 pm
From: E Z Peaces
phil scott wrote:
>
> Dr John Ott wrote a book about 30 years ago on the liability of not
> getting enough broad spectrum light, sun light or incandescent bulb
> light..otherwise LED's have to be the best thing since sliced bread in
> this energy market and with the price of LED's dropping... Id make
> sure I had one or two incandescent bulbs running near a commonly used
> table or chair a few hours each evening, esp if I was home bound or it
> was winter. In the summer most people get enough natural light..its
> an actual vital nutrient, among other things natural light allows the
> body to make vitamin D... lack of light is recognised in alaska
> winters as a serrous problem, causes depression. (even in the old
> days with incandescent bulbs)..its worth some investigation.
>
>
> Phil scott
Doesn't the skin require the destructive kind of UV, where the sun is
above 45 degrees, to make Vitamin D? Can you get that from a bulb?
Doesn't that mean ingesting the vitamin at least in winter can be vital
for people who don't live in the tropics?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 6:28 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)
In article <Niz6l.537$3y5.317@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, E Z Peaces wrote:
>phil scott wrote:
>
>> Dr John Ott wrote a book about 30 years ago on the liability of not
>> getting enough broad spectrum light, sun light or incandescent bulb
>> light..otherwise LED's have to be the best thing since sliced bread in
>> this energy market and with the price of LED's dropping... Id make
>> sure I had one or two incandescent bulbs running near a commonly used
>> table or chair a few hours each evening, esp if I was home bound or it
>> was winter. In the summer most people get enough natural light..its
>> an actual vital nutrient, among other things natural light allows the
>> body to make vitamin D... lack of light is recognised in alaska
>> winters as a serrous problem, causes depression. (even in the old
>> days with incandescent bulbs)..its worth some investigation.
>>
>>
>> Phil scott
>
>Doesn't the skin require the destructive kind of UV, where the sun is
>above 45 degrees, to make Vitamin D? Can you get that from a bulb?
>Doesn't that mean ingesting the vitamin at least in winter can be vital
>for people who don't live in the tropics?
Incandescents in general don't. Some halogens (all of which have bare
halogen "capsules" without outer bulbs, and not even all of those) do
provide some significant UV-B at close range, sometimes also along with a
significant trace of UV-C - highly considered harmful.
I have often heard of sun being 40 degrees above the horizon being
sufficient to produce adequate Vitamin D in the skin. There are also
supplements and fortified milk.
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
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TOPIC: Economy is tough - help yourself by saving $100 per week on groceries,
learn my secret
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fcb8073256d0461a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 30 2008 6:29 pm
From: Saving Mom
I have learned how to save $100 or more per week on my grocery bill.
Click the link below to see copies of my receipts and to learn more.
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